new way to lvlup -Undaunted Skill Line- please

starkerealm

Beardimus wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Get a good group together and do a group of vet dungeons. Doing it this way and getting the speed runs and no death along with the HM achievements levels up the line very fast.

Spot on. We have been saying that all through the thread but the short cutters are listening

As someone who actually can do that, I'm fully aware a lot of people can't. They don't have the gear (yet), and don't have the mechanical experience with the dungeons to knock them out like that. It's one thing for a veteran player to power up their alts this way, it's another to expect someone who's new to dungeons to speed level their undaunted this way, especially if they think that the skill line needs to be maxed out in order for them to contribute. Which, yes, people like that do exist.

Samadhi

Samadhi wrote: »

Axoinus wrote: »

Malamar1229 wrote: »

I agree though I also feel in its current state the undaunted mettle passive should be reworked to increase dmg against raid bosses by 1/2/3% so PvPers don't feel pressured to grind that tree out.

I am going to politely disagree with your logic. If you don't want PvPers to feel pressured to do PvE content, then PvErs should not feel pressured to do PvP content.

PvE lives matter

it is feasible to simply buy a bunch of repair kits, port to a recently captured keep, and circle around repairing the walls while they crumble (they crumble until resources hit max level after a particular span of time without being flipped)
even more boring than pve grind, but know people who have done it
...
If ZOS lets me level up Undaunted by spending some gold and/or AP and porting around Tamriel hammering Q rather than fighting,
would definitely be up for seeing the gap closed

Bax wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

Axoinus wrote: »

Malamar1229 wrote: »

I agree though I also feel in its current state the undaunted mettle passive should be reworked to increase dmg against raid bosses by 1/2/3% so PvPers don't feel pressured to grind that tree out.

I am going to politely disagree with your logic. If you don't want PvPers to feel pressured to do PvE content, then PvErs should not feel pressured to do PvP content.

PvE lives matter

it is feasible to simply buy a bunch of repair kits, port to a recently captured keep, and circle around repairing the walls while they crumble (they crumble until resources hit max level after a particular span of time without being flipped)
even more boring than pve grind, but know people who have done it
if zone chat is to be believed, it is also part of how emperor candidates stay on top

find dungeon runs stressful enough that if an equivalent were provided for Undaunted, would definitely capitalize on it tho

If ZOS lets me level up Undaunted by spending some gold and/or AP and porting around Tamriel hammering Q rather than fighting,
would definitely be up for seeing the gap closed

So you say that PvE players should do boring parts of PvP content in order to unlock PvP only skills, but PvP players should have advantages and alternatives to unlock PvE trees. Where is the logic in that?

My statement was that if ZOS provided an equally boring PvE content means to unlock PvE Skills
as the currently existing boring method of unlocking PvP skills
would prefer that over the stress of setting off my OCD or PTSD in dungeon runs

Was not asking for an advantage,
was asking for PvP to have the same option for unlocking PvE skills as PvErs already have for unlocking PvP skills

Did you misread my comment?
Or are you actually meaning to say that it would be an advantage over PvE players
for PvP players to have the same degree of flexibility to options
as PvE players already have for unlocking PvP skills?

SaintSubwayy

actually we dont need a "new way" to lvl undaunted up, maybe a small boost towards the daily quests is enough.

15 Points for non DLC vet HM / 5 point for non DLC normal
30 Points for DLC HM / and 10 for DLC normal

this'd be fair imo.

Chilly-McFreeze

Axoinus wrote: »

Malamar1229 wrote: »

I agree though I also feel in its current state the undaunted mettle passive should be reworked to increase dmg against raid bosses by 1/2/3% so PvPers don't feel pressured to grind that tree out.

I am going to politely disagree with your logic. If you don't want PvPers to feel pressured to do PvE content, then PvErs should not feel pressured to do PvP content.

PvE lives matter

Funny guy.

How much time does it take to grind out vigor, caltrops, warhorn (assault rank 6)?
And how much time does it take to grind out undaunted mettle, BoP sets and materials?

zaria

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

actually we dont need a "new way" to lvl undaunted up, maybe a small boost towards the daily quests is enough.

15 Points for non DLC vet HM / 5 point for non DLC normal
30 Points for DLC HM / and 10 for DLC normal

this'd be fair imo.

That would be significant nerf, currently addition as in 10 for normal and 20 for any HM. unless you say that normal dungeons should earn 15, normal dlc 20, 35 for HM and 50 for DLC HM.

SaintSubwayy

zaria wrote: »

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

actually we dont need a "new way" to lvl undaunted up, maybe a small boost towards the daily quests is enough.

15 Points for non DLC vet HM / 5 point for non DLC normal
30 Points for DLC HM / and 10 for DLC normal

this'd be fair imo.

That would be significant nerf, currently addition as in 10 for normal and 20 for any HM. unless you say that normal dungeons should earn 15, normal dlc 20, 35 for HM and 50 for DLC HM.

jeah thats what i meant, badly written tbh.

Buffing the current Undaunted points gained, by those numbers

idk

I expect it's been brought up that OP is going about things the hard way.

Guilds are a great place to look for forming groups. Many want to run dungeons and it's often better than going to Zone or GF. If your guild tends to not do group activities like this I'd have to ask why are you there.

It's more likely that a guild group will get achievements such as a vet clear with one or more of HM, speed run and maybe a no death run. Each of these add to undaunted helping to level it up that much faster.

So it doesn't need to be changed. It's better to work smarter than harder in cases like this.

VaranisArano

starkerealm wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Get a good group together and do a group of vet dungeons. Doing it this way and getting the speed runs and no death along with the HM achievements levels up the line very fast.

Spot on. We have been saying that all through the thread but the short cutters are listening

As someone who actually can do that, I'm fully aware a lot of people can't. They don't have the gear (yet), and don't have the mechanical experience with the dungeons to knock them out like that. It's one thing for a veteran player to power up their alts this way, it's another to expect someone who's new to dungeons to speed level their undaunted this way, especially if they think that the skill line needs to be maxed out in order for them to contribute. Which, yes, people like that do exist.

Agreed. There's plenty of people who can run dungeons, but may not feel comfortable jumping full force into Vet Dungeons for the achievements. I know I don't, and I've got the experience to tank most Vet dungeons, I'm just not so practiced at it that I could be confident about doing it with a bunch of PUGs in order to knock out my Undaunted on my tank. And as for my new Warden, I'm not sure I'm ready to heal a bunch of Vet dungeons - not sure I would subject a bunch of PUGs to my learning curve or want to wind up on the latest "Laugh at the clueless PUG in the Vet Dungeon" thread on the forums.

VaranisArano

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Axoinus wrote: »

Malamar1229 wrote: »

I agree though I also feel in its current state the undaunted mettle passive should be reworked to increase dmg against raid bosses by 1/2/3% so PvPers don't feel pressured to grind that tree out.

I am going to politely disagree with your logic. If you don't want PvPers to feel pressured to do PvE content, then PvErs should not feel pressured to do PvP content.

PvE lives matter

Funny guy.

How much time does it take to grind out vigor, caltrops, warhorn (assault rank 6)?
And how much time does it take to grind out undaunted mettle, BoP sets and materials?

I can grind out assault rank 6 in a couple of days to a week, playing for 2-3 hours a day at least. Admittedly, I play on a populated server, I know the map and know where the fights are, I have a fast enough mount to get me to the fights, and I can either get healing AP or kills. A player without that experience and mount speed will find it harder to get, though they may get lucky and find a group to tag along with and get AP that way.

Oh, and I can do that without having 3 other people depending on me to know my role and follow the dungeon mechanics properly in order to complete in a timely fashion.

Thogard

Axoinus wrote: »

Malamar1229 wrote: »

I agree though I also feel in its current state the undaunted mettle passive should be reworked to increase dmg against raid bosses by 1/2/3% so PvPers don't feel pressured to grind that tree out.

I am going to politely disagree with your logic. If you don't want PvPers to feel pressured to do PvE content, then PvErs should not feel pressured to do PvP content.

PvE lives matter

PvE’ers shouldn’t feel pressured to do PvP content...

VaranisArano

Thogard wrote: »

Axoinus wrote: »

Malamar1229 wrote: »

I agree though I also feel in its current state the undaunted mettle passive should be reworked to increase dmg against raid bosses by 1/2/3% so PvPers don't feel pressured to grind that tree out.

I am going to politely disagree with your logic. If you don't want PvPers to feel pressured to do PvE content, then PvErs should not feel pressured to do PvP content.

PvE lives matter

PvE’ers shouldn’t feel pressured to do PvP content...

Then tell your raid leads to quit making you get Vigor and Warhorn and Caltrops, man!

Thing is, ZOS loves it that you PVEers have decided you MUST have PVP skills. They love it! By chasing the meta, PVEers bring themselves into more of the game's content. ZOS couldn't have done it better if they'd tried!

(Which they didn't, BTW. Caltrops is essentially a PVP skill, its the only time in the game you will ever do mounted combat. Vigor is absolutely necessary in PVP, the only content where you might not have a dedicated healer with you outside of Maelstrom Arena. Warhorn would actually make for a nice Undaunted Ultimate is ZOS wanted to do such a thing, but again, its all about supporting your army of fellow PVPers. ZOS designed all these skills for PVPers, but you can bet they're rubbing their hands with glee that PVEers want them too.)

Thogard

VaranisArano wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Axoinus wrote: »

Malamar1229 wrote: »

I agree though I also feel in its current state the undaunted mettle passive should be reworked to increase dmg against raid bosses by 1/2/3% so PvPers don't feel pressured to grind that tree out.

I am going to politely disagree with your logic. If you don't want PvPers to feel pressured to do PvE content, then PvErs should not feel pressured to do PvP content.

PvE lives matter

PvE’ers shouldn’t feel pressured to do PvP content...

Then tell your raid leads to quit making you get Vigor and Warhorn and Caltrops, man!

Thing is, ZOS loves it that you PVEers have decided you MUST have PVP skills. They love it! By chasing the meta, PVEers bring themselves into more of the game's content. ZOS couldn't have done it better if they'd tried!

(Which they didn't, BTW. Caltrops is essentially a PVP skill, its the only time in the game you will ever do mounted combat. Vigor is absolutely necessary in PVP, the only content where you might not have a dedicated healer with you outside of Maelstrom Arena. Warhorn would actually make for a nice Undaunted Ultimate is ZOS wanted to do such a thing, but again, its all about supporting your army of fellow PVPers. ZOS designed all these skills for PVPers, but you can bet they're rubbing their hands with glee that PVEers want them too.)

I’ve never done a PvE raid in my life. I’m a die hard PvPer and don’t have undaunted on my current toon (stamden)

I just think that we both should get a pass, not just the PvPers

VaranisArano

Thogard wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Axoinus wrote: »

Malamar1229 wrote: »

I agree though I also feel in its current state the undaunted mettle passive should be reworked to increase dmg against raid bosses by 1/2/3% so PvPers don't feel pressured to grind that tree out.

I am going to politely disagree with your logic. If you don't want PvPers to feel pressured to do PvE content, then PvErs should not feel pressured to do PvP content.

PvE lives matter

PvE’ers shouldn’t feel pressured to do PvP content...

Then tell your raid leads to quit making you get Vigor and Warhorn and Caltrops, man!

Thing is, ZOS loves it that you PVEers have decided you MUST have PVP skills. They love it! By chasing the meta, PVEers bring themselves into more of the game's content. ZOS couldn't have done it better if they'd tried!

(Which they didn't, BTW. Caltrops is essentially a PVP skill, its the only time in the game you will ever do mounted combat. Vigor is absolutely necessary in PVP, the only content where you might not have a dedicated healer with you outside of Maelstrom Arena. Warhorn would actually make for a nice Undaunted Ultimate is ZOS wanted to do such a thing, but again, its all about supporting your army of fellow PVPers. ZOS designed all these skills for PVPers, but you can bet they're rubbing their hands with glee that PVEers want them too.)

I’ve never done a PvE raid in my life. I’m a die hard PvPer and don’t have undaunted on my current toon (stamden)

I just think that we both should get a pass, not just the PvPers

Okay, so ZOS having already lowered the amount of AP needed to get vigor, caltrops, and warhorn should have fulfilled that for you. PVEers have it easier than before and have plenty of PVE ways to (slowly) make AP if they don't want to PVP.

Actually, I say that PVEers are in a pretty good place when it comes to getting vigor, caltrops, and warhorn.

[Deleted User]

Hello there,

Recently we've had to remove several posts from some unneeded back and forth, keep in mind that flaming and baiting are both against the Forum Rules. For further discussion please be sure to post constructively and to stay civil with your fellow community members regardless of where they stand on the matter.

Thank you for understanding.

Destyran

For max level end game BiS players it takes a day to max

Destyran

Do all the speed run no death HARDMODE sand clear some normal trials.

VaranisArano

Destyran wrote: »

For max level end game BiS players it takes a day to max

Destyran wrote: »

Do all the speed run no death HARDMODE sand clear some normal trials.

That's sort of like saying:

"It takes me a day to get Vigor, Warhorn, and Caltrops on my max level, specced for PVP, max-speed-mount character who's got a good friendly zerg to surf off of."

That's awesome if you can manage it but not really helpful for the vast majority of players concerned with getting those skills.

ookami007

maniac4maniac wrote: »

It was always long, but it was okay when dungeons were not a dead zone like it is now

Nowadays it's the hardest content in the game - to find a group to lvlup undaunted by doing achievements.
And without that by doing only 2-3 pledges each day it takes forever to finish 9-10 lvl skill tree.

For MaX cp, end-game PvE players it can take:

Mage line - 1 day to max
Fighters line - hours-1 day to max
Undaunted - week/s to max

And you can't do a lot solo. At least remove daily undaunted delve limit of 1 delve per day, please, so fully desperate people could lvlup it there?

And other suggestions:

- completing random normal gives 5-10 points
- completingrandom vet gives 10-20 points (hm)
- 1 world boss cleaned for the 1st time gives 10-20 points

One thing thing you CAN do is have the solo quests SHARED. So technically, you could do all 14 or 15 each day for 140-150 points.

ookami007

thedude33 wrote: »

My tank is level 6 undaunted I think. Every other toon is level 1 undaunted and they won't get any higher. I won't dare queue for a dungeon as a DPS. No way I would meet the 'standards'. Likely end up being the subject of a forum post about fake dps or potatoes. I think people would be surprised at the amount of people that won't do dungeons for the same reason.

Motherball

Its got to be difficult for those on the cusp between hardcore and casual. The hardcore know what they have to do, and get it done, while the casuals will never even bother. But those inbetween just feel stepped on or ignored by both sides.

Caligamy_ESO

maniac4maniac wrote: »

Caligamy_ESO wrote: »

Actually you can do a ton of this solo, just not all dungeons. Also the undaunted daily delves (most people ignore) give a lot of points as well, and can be shared so you can do quite a bit of them every day.

5 of points per day = a lot?

15 (the number of sharable dailies) x 5 (assuming you are already high undaunted rank because lower ranks get more than 5 pts) = 75 pts a day. If you can't solo these, then quite frankly leveling up undaunted is the least of your worries.

VaranisArano

Caligamy_ESO wrote: »

maniac4maniac wrote: »

Caligamy_ESO wrote: »

Actually you can do a ton of this solo, just not all dungeons. Also the undaunted daily delves (most people ignore) give a lot of points as well, and can be shared so you can do quite a bit of them every day.

5 of points per day = a lot?

15 (the number of sharable dailies) x 5 (assuming you are already high undaunted rank because lower ranks get more than 5 pts) = 75 pts a day. If you can't solo these, then quite frankly leveling up undaunted is the least of your worries.

I suspect that getting the shareable quests is the hardest part of that, not doing the quest itself. I mean, what am I supposed to do, beg in zone chat for someone to share another delve quest with me?

Mettaricana

Need to add a buff to the exp sources make delves and publics count far more and make redoing dungeons count every time even a little rather than once the achievements are done that dungeon is worthless

maniac4maniac

Caligamy_ESO wrote: »

maniac4maniac wrote: »

Caligamy_ESO wrote: »

Actually you can do a ton of this solo, just not all dungeons. Also the undaunted daily delves (most people ignore) give a lot of points as well, and can be shared so you can do quite a bit of them every day.

5 of points per day = a lot?

15 (the number of sharable dailies) x 5 (assuming you are already high undaunted rank because lower ranks get more than 5 pts) = 75 pts a day. If you can't solo these, then quite frankly leveling up undaunted is the least of your worries.

Go find quest, go go. I have no idea how people think the world of theory and real world are the same. Go find 14 people with different quests in less than 5 hours that will share them

Bax

maniac4maniac wrote: »

Caligamy_ESO wrote: »

maniac4maniac wrote: »

Caligamy_ESO wrote: »

Actually you can do a ton of this solo, just not all dungeons. Also the undaunted daily delves (most people ignore) give a lot of points as well, and can be shared so you can do quite a bit of them every day.

5 of points per day = a lot?

15 (the number of sharable dailies) x 5 (assuming you are already high undaunted rank because lower ranks get more than 5 pts) = 75 pts a day. If you can't solo these, then quite frankly leveling up undaunted is the least of your worries.

Go find quest, go go. I have no idea how people think the world of theory and real world are the same. Go find 14 people with different quests in less than 5 hours that will share them

There are PvE guilds which focus on this. And even if you find none, OP has 25 "agrees" on his initial post. That means there are at least 25 people willing to get that skill tree maxed fast. And quite a few of them will be from your server. Form a group and coordinate dailies together. What is better for you? Waiting months to maybe get a redesign of the skill tree or group up with like-minded people and fix it for yourself in a few days? But sure, pick the first option and keep complaining if you wish.

maniac4maniac

Bax wrote: »

maniac4maniac wrote: »

Caligamy_ESO wrote: »

maniac4maniac wrote: »

Caligamy_ESO wrote: »

Actually you can do a ton of this solo, just not all dungeons. Also the undaunted daily delves (most people ignore) give a lot of points as well, and can be shared so you can do quite a bit of them every day.

5 of points per day = a lot?

15 (the number of sharable dailies) x 5 (assuming you are already high undaunted rank because lower ranks get more than 5 pts) = 75 pts a day. If you can't solo these, then quite frankly leveling up undaunted is the least of your worries.

Go find quest, go go. I have no idea how people think the world of theory and real world are the same. Go find 14 people with different quests in less than 5 hours that will share them

There are PvE guilds which focus on this. And even if you find none, OP has 25 "agrees" on his initial post. That means there are at least 25 people willing to get that skill tree maxed fast. And quite a few of them will be from your server. Form a group and coordinate dailies together. What is better for you? Waiting months to maybe get a redesign of the skill tree or group up with like-minded people and fix it for yourself in a few days? But sure, pick the first option and keep complaining if you wish.

More clown fiesta please, it's funny

I am OP, let's start from that, agree != going or even need to lvlup them, i dont need that but i remember how bad it's made and don'twant other people to struggle.

You don't care about anything but spam if you think "in theory" = actually how it is. Go find a party right now, then pls feel free to disagree. Noone cares about your 1 char that got undaunted during all your eso playtime to lvl 9-10 by doing daily pledges/daily achievs when you can grind in MMO all other branches within day-hours. Here you can't grind in it's actual state, reasons - all above. And ESO is all about grind.

And noone will leave their guilds to find 1 specific guild to lvlup 1 specific char. Mb you have 5 free guild spots you dont value.

And go also find 14 people that will share with you delve quests, each with unique delve, each day

Caligamy_ESO

maniac4maniac wrote: »

Caligamy_ESO wrote: »

maniac4maniac wrote: »

Caligamy_ESO wrote: »

Actually you can do a ton of this solo, just not all dungeons. Also the undaunted daily delves (most people ignore) give a lot of points as well, and can be shared so you can do quite a bit of them every day.

5 of points per day = a lot?

15 (the number of sharable dailies) x 5 (assuming you are already high undaunted rank because lower ranks get more than 5 pts) = 75 pts a day. If you can't solo these, then quite frankly leveling up undaunted is the least of your worries.

Go find quest, go go. I have no idea how people think the world of theory and real world are the same. Go find 14 people with different quests in less than 5 hours that will share them

First it was there's no way, then it was 'it's only 5 points', now it's sharing and communicating is too hard.

I just did this last week for my new Templar (my 12th character I think?) so I could get orbs and mettle II passive. All you have to do is ask in zone chat once (sometimes a whole 2 times) and usually someone will be kind enough to whisper or invite you to share one. Zone doesn't work out so well? Ask your guilds, or friends.. if that fails then gods forbid you might have to run a dungeon, to level the dungeon skill line. I know, ..the horror. The means to level it quicker is already there, its just you might have to sacrifice all your motivation complaining about it on forums for a week rather than spending 2 or 3 days to level it.

Merlin13KAGL

Linaleah wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Get a good group together and do a group of vet dungeons. Doing it this way and getting the speed runs and no death along with the HM achievements levels up the line very fast.

Spot on. We have been saying that all through the thread but the short cutters are listening

because not everyone can do that. in fact most people can NOT. we are not all masters of animation canceling in hardcore guilds that are running dungeons all day every day.

Not everyone has to.

You hardly need a hardmode clear on every four man dungeon to get Undaunted 10. In fact, you can reach Undaunted 10 (even though one tick over 8 is all you need for the passives in question) and still have dungeons on your list you've never set foot it...

Again, the line is there to teach mechanics and group play - it has a purpose beyond the passives. In either case, it's quite reasonable to achieve in an equally reasonable amount of time.

Sure, if you can Hard Mode/No Death/Speed Run in one shot, it'll level faster, but even if you don't, it still arrives in reasonable time.

To put it another way: If you and your group are having extreme difficulties with those things, that 2-6% stat bonus is not going to make a significant difference anyway.

Here's a flip side analogy: Would the PvP'ers be good with us earning Grand Overlord after killing enough scamps, doing enough side quests, or refining enough mats? Somehow I doubt it.

ok. tell me. why does it hurt you so much if leveling undaunted become more accessible to more people just a tiny bit faster. WHY are you so against it? its not like they won't have to make an effort, it will just make the artificial time gate a little bit shorter. why must undaunted be a *** pain? someone who reaches Undaunted 10 by solely doing Bogrul's dailies is not learning anything, so PLEASE for the love of god STOP making that excuse. and as it was pointed out above - you CAN in fact level your pvp skill line by doing essentially zero pvp, you HAVE THAT OPTION. and you are NOT artificially time gated from it becasue unlike undaunted pledges, Cyrodil quests are infinitely repeatable. I can keep doing that scouting mission over. and over. and over. on the same day. kill 20 of insert class here, is limited by number of classes in the game, but all you need to do is be in a group with someone else who kills them, even if all you are doing is manning a siege, or repairing walls. you can repair walls for as long as you can keep buying repair kits. and the tick for taking or defending a castle is SIGNIFICANTLY larger then what you get for finishing an undaunted daily.

comparing maxed undaunted to grand overlord is not only a false equivalency, but it ignores ALL THE PVE WAYS YOU CAN ACQUIRE AP

without vet achievements, undaunted does NOT leveling in anything that is resembling reasonable time, ESPECIALLY when you compare it to mage guild, fighter's guilds and even "gasp" getting most pvp skills pveer might need. but it IS absolutely positively HELPFUL. i love how the same people who make changes in their gear for those 2-6% in performance are at the same time telling me that noooo, I totally don't need those. those little differences don't just make a difference for you speed running hardcore people.

The point @Linaleah is that they've dumbed it down considerably already.

I've one character that has about 96 hours in game and is max undaunted. That 96 also includes 1-50, a lot of shards, and no doubt a lot of standing around and repetition.

Of course the GO analogy was intended as an exaggeration, much as I'm hoping your implying anyone is going to max undaunted by simply doing the daily. If they're going for cap that way, they likely don't even need the 6% it provides.

I could counterargue that you could also technically achieve GO via the PvP dailies and keep repairs. While it might be technically possible, I'm pretty sure we can both agree how absurd that would actually be.

The fact that you can level either without performing the original intended core mechanic is a testament to this very kind of request - workaround provided simply to get the end (passive/skill) result without actually learning in the process, which was the original intent.

That's exactly why more shortcuts are unnecessary.

Now, if you want to propose having those unlocked after having proven ability via class/role for any further alts that have that class/role, I'm all aboard for that change.

But until then, both, Undaunted and Alliance, are achievable in fairly short order.

Linaleah

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Get a good group together and do a group of vet dungeons. Doing it this way and getting the speed runs and no death along with the HM achievements levels up the line very fast.

Spot on. We have been saying that all through the thread but the short cutters are listening

because not everyone can do that. in fact most people can NOT. we are not all masters of animation canceling in hardcore guilds that are running dungeons all day every day.

Not everyone has to.

You hardly need a hardmode clear on every four man dungeon to get Undaunted 10. In fact, you can reach Undaunted 10 (even though one tick over 8 is all you need for the passives in question) and still have dungeons on your list you've never set foot it...

Again, the line is there to teach mechanics and group play - it has a purpose beyond the passives. In either case, it's quite reasonable to achieve in an equally reasonable amount of time.

Sure, if you can Hard Mode/No Death/Speed Run in one shot, it'll level faster, but even if you don't, it still arrives in reasonable time.

To put it another way: If you and your group are having extreme difficulties with those things, that 2-6% stat bonus is not going to make a significant difference anyway.

Here's a flip side analogy: Would the PvP'ers be good with us earning Grand Overlord after killing enough scamps, doing enough side quests, or refining enough mats? Somehow I doubt it.

ok. tell me. why does it hurt you so much if leveling undaunted become more accessible to more people just a tiny bit faster. WHY are you so against it? its not like they won't have to make an effort, it will just make the artificial time gate a little bit shorter. why must undaunted be a *** pain? someone who reaches Undaunted 10 by solely doing Bogrul's dailies is not learning anything, so PLEASE for the love of god STOP making that excuse. and as it was pointed out above - you CAN in fact level your pvp skill line by doing essentially zero pvp, you HAVE THAT OPTION. and you are NOT artificially time gated from it becasue unlike undaunted pledges, Cyrodil quests are infinitely repeatable. I can keep doing that scouting mission over. and over. and over. on the same day. kill 20 of insert class here, is limited by number of classes in the game, but all you need to do is be in a group with someone else who kills them, even if all you are doing is manning a siege, or repairing walls. you can repair walls for as long as you can keep buying repair kits. and the tick for taking or defending a castle is SIGNIFICANTLY larger then what you get for finishing an undaunted daily.

comparing maxed undaunted to grand overlord is not only a false equivalency, but it ignores ALL THE PVE WAYS YOU CAN ACQUIRE AP

without vet achievements, undaunted does NOT leveling in anything that is resembling reasonable time, ESPECIALLY when you compare it to mage guild, fighter's guilds and even "gasp" getting most pvp skills pveer might need. but it IS absolutely positively HELPFUL. i love how the same people who make changes in their gear for those 2-6% in performance are at the same time telling me that noooo, I totally don't need those. those little differences don't just make a difference for you speed running hardcore people.

The point @Linaleah is that they've dumbed it down considerably already.

I've one character that has about 96 hours in game and is max undaunted. That 96 also includes 1-50, a lot of shards, and no doubt a lot of standing around and repetition.

Of course the GO analogy was intended as an exaggeration, much as I'm hoping your implying anyone is going to max undaunted by simply doing the daily. If they're going for cap that way, they likely don't even need the 6% it provides.

I could counterargue that you could also technically achieve GO via the PvP dailies and keep repairs. While it might be technically possible, I'm pretty sure we can both agree how absurd that would actually be.

The fact that you can level either without performing the original intended core mechanic is a testament to this very kind of request - workaround provided simply to get the end (passive/skill) result without actually learning in the process, which was the original intent.

That's exactly why more shortcuts are unnecessary.

Now, if you want to propose having those unlocked after having proven ability via class/role for any further alts that have that class/role, I'm all aboard for that change.

But until then, both, Undaunted and Alliance, are achievable in fairly short order.

except, you can level entirely through dungeons and STILL not be anywhere near maxing out undaunted is THE POINT THAT I"M MAKING. why are public dungeons not counting? why do only specific veteran achievements count towards undaunted? why don't trial completions. why don't first time quests? just because the system is not as horrible it one was, does NOT mean its good now.

I'm glad that you have a group of people that helped you along with getting your character max undaunted in short order. good for you. "I got mine, f you" right? becasue THIS is what you are saying right now.

Merlin13KAGL

Linaleah wrote: »

I'm glad that you have a group of people that helped you along with getting your character max undaunted in short order. good for you. "I got mine, f you" right? becasue THIS is what you are saying right now.

Half right. I used the random finder first (for the quest bonus), and the specific finder after that, selecting only uncompleted dungeons. You sound like you're assuming I asked my guild to perform the skyreach version of undaunted ranks, and you'd be wrong.

To add a little perspective, if your stat without is 50k (which most will be closer to half that), it adds a grand total of 3k with both skillpoints placed.

I'm not asking for it to be made harder. I'm saying it's quite reasonable. Will you have a to do a pledge or two, perhaps even repeat a dungeon? Probably for most, but it's still quite attainable provided you can perform your role.

If you're having difficulty with the latter, practice, thus the longer timeframe, is the only thing that is going to improve that.

It's a bonus passive, one that helps, but not one that it going to be the difference between success and failure for almost any content in the game.

And regarding trials, I'm pretty sure the first achieve does count towards Undaunted rep, same credit as doing a 4 man the first time.

• Do the randoms, if you nab one you haven't previously finished, you get double duty + bonus xp + a skillpoint.These can be done from level 10 on norm.
• When you hit 45 also pickup the pledges. Again, random first in case it happens pick a pledge dungeon. Again, two (maybe three if the above applies), birds, one stone.
• Do the daily. Takes longer to unlock the wayshrine than it does to finish the task.
• Use the Specific Dungeon Finder to fill in the remaining blanks - finish off an entire zone and you'll get even more bonus rep. Vanquisher of EP/DC/AD Again, can be done on normal.
• If you really want to do the scouting comparison, buy drinks in each zone. You get like 50 rep for that one.
• Save the DLC dungeons for dead last.
• Repeat. You'll get side points inevitably for killing x of some creature and various other achieves. You don't even have to hit rank 10, just one notch over rank 8.

Like anything else, if you're methodical about it and you put forth the effort, it's not that hard to get. If you casually pursue it, it's still attainable.