Give stamsorc and stamdk a class spammable dps

Joshlenoir · December 2017

Xvorg wrote: »

Ocelot9x wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Speed_Kills wrote: »

No, Stam sorc doesn't need a spammable. Yes, it would make it super easy to build a successful Stam sorc build and would allow you to run less weapon skills. However, a spammable is available in every weapon skill line available to Stam sorc. If you want to run 2h/bow without dizzy swing, grab a maelstrom or master 2h-- problem solved. Dual wield offers rapid strikes, flying blade, and steelnado (lots of choices). Sword and board also offers 2 great options: puncture and heroic slash, and also provides a cc/defile in reverb (if you don't use reverb you can also get a pretty nasty spammable from shield bash). I also have not put on heavy this entire patch, medium is where it's at.

You're using duelwield/2h which is arguably the strongest setup for stamsorc. Most of your dsp comes from the weapon skill line. Having to use a certain weapon just to be able to run a 2h/bow setup without dizzy is just lame imo. Dizzy swing is a better spammable than cleave, but it is too unreliable compared to surprise attack and biting jabs. I can cancel a light attack and surprise attack combo with dodge roll easily whereas dizzy swing needs to be channeled and good players can just dodge it, block it, or run through me. I'm specifically asking for a class spammable because it opens up more build options.

SA is not so reliable (in fact, Ransack is way better for weaving and any NB can use WB out of nowhere). Jabs hitting the air are so common it hurts and compared to Rapids they give little back (Rapids have certain execute associated, not to mention the dmg increase on stunned enemies).

Stam class spammables are way overrated and in turn give little back. On the contrary, Stam weapon abilities are great and have way better passives associated

I beg to differ. Surprise attack is an amazing dps. I can do the light attack + surprise attack + bash combo just as fast as light attack + ransack + bash. Landing jabs won't be a problem if you use speed pots. Your jabs hitting the air is probably because your target is out of range or you are snared. Jabs slow for 70%, can proc burning light for more damage, and does aoe which is amazing in group play. You don't see stamplars using rapid strikes over jabs because jabs outperform it in both single target dps and aoe dps.

But the passives associated to SA are almost useless. You can proc them just by using cloak, while bashing with ransack does significantly moar dmg.

The only reason to run SA is when paired with DW. When paired with 2H or S/B is quite redundant.

Regarding Jabs, most of the stamplars I see use it because it is an AoE so dodgeroll doesn't work. Neither burning light, nor the snare are game turner passives compared to the dmg increase on low health enemies or the bonus on stunned targets. Even more, if you use toppling charge as gap closer on a DW stamplar, not using rapids could be a mistake (not to mention that Rapids costs less stam and gives one extra chance to proc TBaB bleed)

With that, I don't want to say stam class spamables are bad, in turn I try to let you see that Class and Weapon spammables are in the very same level. When used properly can be painful as hell.

By the way, as a stamblade, what execute do you prefer, executioner or killer's blade?

Lol just stop please. Puncture better than SA?
And I've yet to see a stamplar running rapids. Jabs are way better.

I never said it is better, I said that they are in the same level. You can go with SA on a S/B NB, but you will be missing a lot buffs and debuffs if using cloak, so, why choosing SA in that case?

You don't do a lot of high level PvP, do you

Joshlenoir · December 2017

Xvorg wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Speed_Kills wrote: »

No, Stam sorc doesn't need a spammable. Yes, it would make it super easy to build a successful Stam sorc build and would allow you to run less weapon skills. However, a spammable is available in every weapon skill line available to Stam sorc. If you want to run 2h/bow without dizzy swing, grab a maelstrom or master 2h-- problem solved. Dual wield offers rapid strikes, flying blade, and steelnado (lots of choices). Sword and board also offers 2 great options: puncture and heroic slash, and also provides a cc/defile in reverb (if you don't use reverb you can also get a pretty nasty spammable from shield bash). I also have not put on heavy this entire patch, medium is where it's at.

You're using duelwield/2h which is arguably the strongest setup for stamsorc. Most of your dsp comes from the weapon skill line. Having to use a certain weapon just to be able to run a 2h/bow setup without dizzy is just lame imo. Dizzy swing is a better spammable than cleave, but it is too unreliable compared to surprise attack and biting jabs. I can cancel a light attack and surprise attack combo with dodge roll easily whereas dizzy swing needs to be channeled and good players can just dodge it, block it, or run through me. I'm specifically asking for a class spammable because it opens up more build options.

SA is not so reliable (in fact, Ransack is way better for weaving and any NB can use WB out of nowhere). Jabs hitting the air are so common it hurts and compared to Rapids they give little back (Rapids have certain execute associated, not to mention the dmg increase on stunned enemies).

Stam class spammables are way overrated and in turn give little back. On the contrary, Stam weapon abilities are great and have way better passives associated

I beg to differ. Surprise attack is an amazing dps. I can do the light attack + surprise attack + bash combo just as fast as light attack + ransack + bash. Landing jabs won't be a problem if you use speed pots. Your jabs hitting the air is probably because your target is out of range or you are snared. Jabs slow for 70%, can proc burning light for more damage, and does aoe which is amazing in group play. You don't see stamplars using rapid strikes over jabs because jabs outperform it in both single target dps and aoe dps.

But the passives associated to SA are almost useless. You can proc them just by using cloak, while bashing with ransack does significantly moar dmg.

The only reason to run SA is when paired with DW. When paired with 2H or S/B is quite redundant.

Regarding Jabs, most of the stamplars I see use it because it is an AoE so dodgeroll doesn't work. Neither burning light, nor the snare are game turner passives compared to the dmg increase on low health enemies or the bonus on stunned targets. Even more, if you use toppling charge as gap closer on a DW stamplar, not using rapids could be a mistake (not to mention that Rapids costs less stam and gives one extra chance to proc TBaB bleed)

With that, I don't want to say stam class spamables are bad, in turn I try to let you see that Class and Weapon spammables are in the very same level. When used properly can be painful as hell.

By the way, as a stamblade, what execute do you prefer, executioner or killer's blade?

Have you ever personally tried what you're saying? Sounds like you're talking about things with 0 experience. None of what you said is true in the realm of actual PvP against above average players.

They are not on the same level whatsoever.

Mihael · December 2017

I really don’t think either class needs a spamable because they would be op if they had one. Stam dk could use some buffs(in pvp) but I don’t think spammable is the way to go especially with venomous claw being so strong

BohnT · December 2017

How do you give stamdk as spammable and prevent that they become op in Pve?
Pick a skill that's already in the rotation.
Best skill for this: Noxious Breath.
Now we compare the damage with Noxious Breath as a Dot and a spammable.
This will result in a dps difference. The additional damage you gain through the spammable has to be balanced by reducing the damage of another skill.
As Stamdk only uses 1 other class skill venemous claw is left to be nerfed by a small margin and now stamdk has a great spammable while remaining it's great position in PvE without leaving everyone even further behind.

Saying noz every class needs a spammable is pure crap the weapon spammables are crap and make classes look like clones. The only class is See which works great without a spammable is magsorc as force shock is perfect for them

BohnT · December 2017

Stamsorc deserves a spammable aswell. Although it's harder to define a skill that could be changed to a spammable.

Mojomonkeyman · December 2017

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

can we remove molten armaments from the game, and maybe nerf claws, so that people will stop complaining about stamDk pve.
I seriously dislike the situation.

Its not even about having a spammable anymore, every single time people bring the ''stamDk is good in pve, so let it suffer pvp'' card out.

Morvane wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

I would say stamsorc has great variety, even when lacking a class spammable they have everything else.
So a built in spammable is not neccessary at all. I don't wanna go back to the stamsorc FOTM days,
they are literally stamDk version 2.0 with better passives and more cheese.

For stamDk I would love a stamina poison whip. but I doubt It would change anything. In the end of the day, as long as I'm slow as a turtle and wings are poop, why would I ever wanna drop SnB?

"EVERYTHING ELSE" COST A large amount of mana
LARGE
u cant spam this, u talking about subject you dont know good

I know stamsorc well enough to know that the only thing keeping them balanced is having no strong spammable.
Do you think sorc has high costs? GO friggen play Dk for a single day, I dare you.

I don`t think you know stamsorc well enough to comment on it. In fact I think your stamDK agenda is making you pretty blind for anything that isnt related to "buff stamDK". I once was a big fan of your posts, but lately it has become really obvious that all you care about is getting stamDK back to being very dominant.

I was fine with my stamsorc before all the buffs, I was fine with buffs and I am fine now. But I can say the same about all the oldschool stamDKs. They do fine, yes, worse than stamWard & maybe stamNB, but they are not even remotely close to how weak stamsorc was before buffs (in comparison to i.e. stamDKs back in the days), yet cry so much more.

Its a disgrace, really. Regards.

Morvane · December 2017

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Morvane wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

can we remove molten armaments from the game, and maybe nerf claws, so that people will stop complaining about stamDk pve.
I seriously dislike the situation.

Its not even about having a spammable anymore, every single time people bring the ''stamDk is good in pve, so let it suffer pvp'' card out.

Morvane wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

I would say stamsorc has great variety, even when lacking a class spammable they have everything else.
So a built in spammable is not neccessary at all. I don't wanna go back to the stamsorc FOTM days,
they are literally stamDk version 2.0 with better passives and more cheese.

For stamDk I would love a stamina poison whip. but I doubt It would change anything. In the end of the day, as long as I'm slow as a turtle and wings are poop, why would I ever wanna drop SnB?

"EVERYTHING ELSE" COST A large amount of mana
LARGE
u cant spam this, u talking about subject you dont know good

I know stamsorc well enough to know that the only thing keeping them balanced is having no strong spammable.
Do you think sorc has high costs? GO friggen play Dk for a single day, I dare you.

7.5k mana cost heal from Pet (clanny, phys morph!!!) = 2 heals when 3 stat food+Shacklebreaker
Streak cost - no comments.
Surdge, Encase - 2 cast = mana over but u still need heal or surdge or smt else

So not enough mana really. If these morphs were stamina based the situation may be balanced
They have everything else but NOT FOR STAMINA
U told they have anything else? So stamsorc have class execute or heal based on stam? Spell reflect? Okaaaaaay....

Cut your crying out.
stamsorc has some of the strongest utility tools .
Streak,Crit surge, hurricane,dark deal,bound armaments, negate, combined with best passives for dps in the entire game.

You get heals from critting people and you complain about having no heals.. are you for real?

I play sorc from nearly realise of this game and have Emp, high pvp rank, completed vMSA, vetTrialsa, challenges in DLC and much more. Do you really think you need to explain me my skill bar?

You really understand nothing in sorc just crying that he has:
1) nerfed Dark deal (now not best utility)
2) Nerfed from 250% to 150% hurricane
3) Streak which punish sorc for using it
4) 3 class stamina morphs (no one of them make direct damage)

You just newbie that think if he has opinion he must sound it in public.
Just a noise of fresh player which play not a sorcerer

Mojomonkeyman · December 2017

Morvane wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Morvane wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

can we remove molten armaments from the game, and maybe nerf claws, so that people will stop complaining about stamDk pve.
I seriously dislike the situation.

Its not even about having a spammable anymore, every single time people bring the ''stamDk is good in pve, so let it suffer pvp'' card out.

Morvane wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

I would say stamsorc has great variety, even when lacking a class spammable they have everything else.
So a built in spammable is not neccessary at all. I don't wanna go back to the stamsorc FOTM days,
they are literally stamDk version 2.0 with better passives and more cheese.

For stamDk I would love a stamina poison whip. but I doubt It would change anything. In the end of the day, as long as I'm slow as a turtle and wings are poop, why would I ever wanna drop SnB?

"EVERYTHING ELSE" COST A large amount of mana
LARGE
u cant spam this, u talking about subject you dont know good

I know stamsorc well enough to know that the only thing keeping them balanced is having no strong spammable.
Do you think sorc has high costs? GO friggen play Dk for a single day, I dare you.

7.5k mana cost heal from Pet (clanny, phys morph!!!) = 2 heals when 3 stat food+Shacklebreaker
Streak cost - no comments.
Surdge, Encase - 2 cast = mana over but u still need heal or surdge or smt else

So not enough mana really. If these morphs were stamina based the situation may be balanced
They have everything else but NOT FOR STAMINA
U told they have anything else? So stamsorc have class execute or heal based on stam? Spell reflect? Okaaaaaay....

Cut your crying out.
stamsorc has some of the strongest utility tools .
Streak,Crit surge, hurricane,dark deal,bound armaments, negate, combined with best passives for dps in the entire game.

You get heals from critting people and you complain about having no heals.. are you for real?

I play sorc from nearly realise of this game and have Emp, high pvp rank, completed vMSA, vetTrialsa, challenges in DLC and much more. Do you really think you need to explain me my skill bar?

You really understand nothing in sorc just crying that he has:
1) nerfed Dark deal (now not best utility)
2) Nerfed from 250% to 150% hurricane
3) Streak which punish sorc for using it
4) 3 class stamina morphs (no one of them make direct damage)

You just newbie that think if he has opinion he must sound it in public.
Just a noise of fresh player which play not a sorcerer

The person you are quoting is one of the very experienced oldschool players on PC EU, who is also a high level dueler and competent player overall.

Morvane · December 2017

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

Morvane wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Morvane wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

can we remove molten armaments from the game, and maybe nerf claws, so that people will stop complaining about stamDk pve.
I seriously dislike the situation.

Its not even about having a spammable anymore, every single time people bring the ''stamDk is good in pve, so let it suffer pvp'' card out.

Morvane wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

I would say stamsorc has great variety, even when lacking a class spammable they have everything else.
So a built in spammable is not neccessary at all. I don't wanna go back to the stamsorc FOTM days,
they are literally stamDk version 2.0 with better passives and more cheese.

For stamDk I would love a stamina poison whip. but I doubt It would change anything. In the end of the day, as long as I'm slow as a turtle and wings are poop, why would I ever wanna drop SnB?

"EVERYTHING ELSE" COST A large amount of mana
LARGE
u cant spam this, u talking about subject you dont know good

I know stamsorc well enough to know that the only thing keeping them balanced is having no strong spammable.
Do you think sorc has high costs? GO friggen play Dk for a single day, I dare you.

7.5k mana cost heal from Pet (clanny, phys morph!!!) = 2 heals when 3 stat food+Shacklebreaker
Streak cost - no comments.
Surdge, Encase - 2 cast = mana over but u still need heal or surdge or smt else

So not enough mana really. If these morphs were stamina based the situation may be balanced
They have everything else but NOT FOR STAMINA
U told they have anything else? So stamsorc have class execute or heal based on stam? Spell reflect? Okaaaaaay....

Cut your crying out.
stamsorc has some of the strongest utility tools .
Streak,Crit surge, hurricane,dark deal,bound armaments, negate, combined with best passives for dps in the entire game.

You get heals from critting people and you complain about having no heals.. are you for real?

I play sorc from nearly realise of this game and have Emp, high pvp rank, completed vMSA, vetTrialsa, challenges in DLC and much more. Do you really think you need to explain me my skill bar?

You really understand nothing in sorc just crying that he has:
1) nerfed Dark deal (now not best utility)
2) Nerfed from 250% to 150% hurricane
3) Streak which punish sorc for using it
4) 3 class stamina morphs (no one of them make direct damage)

You just newbie that think if he has opinion he must sound it in public.
Just a noise of fresh player which play not a sorcerer

The person you are quoting is one of the very experienced oldschool players on PC EU, who is also a high level dueler and competent player overall.

I'm not garbage too.

BohnT · December 2017

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

Morvane wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Morvane wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

can we remove molten armaments from the game, and maybe nerf claws, so that people will stop complaining about stamDk pve.
I seriously dislike the situation.

Its not even about having a spammable anymore, every single time people bring the ''stamDk is good in pve, so let it suffer pvp'' card out.

Morvane wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

I would say stamsorc has great variety, even when lacking a class spammable they have everything else.
So a built in spammable is not neccessary at all. I don't wanna go back to the stamsorc FOTM days,
they are literally stamDk version 2.0 with better passives and more cheese.

For stamDk I would love a stamina poison whip. but I doubt It would change anything. In the end of the day, as long as I'm slow as a turtle and wings are poop, why would I ever wanna drop SnB?

"EVERYTHING ELSE" COST A large amount of mana
LARGE
u cant spam this, u talking about subject you dont know good

I know stamsorc well enough to know that the only thing keeping them balanced is having no strong spammable.
Do you think sorc has high costs? GO friggen play Dk for a single day, I dare you.

7.5k mana cost heal from Pet (clanny, phys morph!!!) = 2 heals when 3 stat food+Shacklebreaker
Streak cost - no comments.
Surdge, Encase - 2 cast = mana over but u still need heal or surdge or smt else

So not enough mana really. If these morphs were stamina based the situation may be balanced
They have everything else but NOT FOR STAMINA
U told they have anything else? So stamsorc have class execute or heal based on stam? Spell reflect? Okaaaaaay....

Cut your crying out.
stamsorc has some of the strongest utility tools .
Streak,Crit surge, hurricane,dark deal,bound armaments, negate, combined with best passives for dps in the entire game.

You get heals from critting people and you complain about having no heals.. are you for real?

I play sorc from nearly realise of this game and have Emp, high pvp rank, completed vMSA, vetTrialsa, challenges in DLC and much more. Do you really think you need to explain me my skill bar?

You really understand nothing in sorc just crying that he has:
1) nerfed Dark deal (now not best utility)
2) Nerfed from 250% to 150% hurricane
3) Streak which punish sorc for using it
4) 3 class stamina morphs (no one of them make direct damage)

You just newbie that think if he has opinion he must sound it in public.
Just a noise of fresh player which play not a sorcerer

The person you are quoting is one of the very experienced oldschool players on PC EU, who is also a high level dueler and competent player overall.

I think you Mix up @Ragnaroek93 and @Ragnarock41

Mojomonkeyman · December 2017

BohnT wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

Morvane wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Morvane wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

can we remove molten armaments from the game, and maybe nerf claws, so that people will stop complaining about stamDk pve.
I seriously dislike the situation.

Its not even about having a spammable anymore, every single time people bring the ''stamDk is good in pve, so let it suffer pvp'' card out.

Morvane wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

I would say stamsorc has great variety, even when lacking a class spammable they have everything else.
So a built in spammable is not neccessary at all. I don't wanna go back to the stamsorc FOTM days,
they are literally stamDk version 2.0 with better passives and more cheese.

For stamDk I would love a stamina poison whip. but I doubt It would change anything. In the end of the day, as long as I'm slow as a turtle and wings are poop, why would I ever wanna drop SnB?

"EVERYTHING ELSE" COST A large amount of mana
LARGE
u cant spam this, u talking about subject you dont know good

I know stamsorc well enough to know that the only thing keeping them balanced is having no strong spammable.
Do you think sorc has high costs? GO friggen play Dk for a single day, I dare you.

7.5k mana cost heal from Pet (clanny, phys morph!!!) = 2 heals when 3 stat food+Shacklebreaker
Streak cost - no comments.
Surdge, Encase - 2 cast = mana over but u still need heal or surdge or smt else

So not enough mana really. If these morphs were stamina based the situation may be balanced
They have everything else but NOT FOR STAMINA
U told they have anything else? So stamsorc have class execute or heal based on stam? Spell reflect? Okaaaaaay....

Cut your crying out.
stamsorc has some of the strongest utility tools .
Streak,Crit surge, hurricane,dark deal,bound armaments, negate, combined with best passives for dps in the entire game.

You get heals from critting people and you complain about having no heals.. are you for real?

I play sorc from nearly realise of this game and have Emp, high pvp rank, completed vMSA, vetTrialsa, challenges in DLC and much more. Do you really think you need to explain me my skill bar?

You really understand nothing in sorc just crying that he has:
1) nerfed Dark deal (now not best utility)
2) Nerfed from 250% to 150% hurricane
3) Streak which punish sorc for using it
4) 3 class stamina morphs (no one of them make direct damage)

You just newbie that think if he has opinion he must sound it in public.
Just a noise of fresh player which play not a sorcerer

The person you are quoting is one of the very experienced oldschool players on PC EU, who is also a high level dueler and competent player overall.

I think you Mix up @Ragnaroek93 and @Ragnarock41

oh wow, I think I did. Thanks for the info!

BohnT · December 2017

Morvane wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

Morvane wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Morvane wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

can we remove molten armaments from the game, and maybe nerf claws, so that people will stop complaining about stamDk pve.
I seriously dislike the situation.

Its not even about having a spammable anymore, every single time people bring the ''stamDk is good in pve, so let it suffer pvp'' card out.

Morvane wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

I would say stamsorc has great variety, even when lacking a class spammable they have everything else.
So a built in spammable is not neccessary at all. I don't wanna go back to the stamsorc FOTM days,
they are literally stamDk version 2.0 with better passives and more cheese.

For stamDk I would love a stamina poison whip. but I doubt It would change anything. In the end of the day, as long as I'm slow as a turtle and wings are poop, why would I ever wanna drop SnB?

"EVERYTHING ELSE" COST A large amount of mana
LARGE
u cant spam this, u talking about subject you dont know good

I know stamsorc well enough to know that the only thing keeping them balanced is having no strong spammable.
Do you think sorc has high costs? GO friggen play Dk for a single day, I dare you.

7.5k mana cost heal from Pet (clanny, phys morph!!!) = 2 heals when 3 stat food+Shacklebreaker
Streak cost - no comments.
Surdge, Encase - 2 cast = mana over but u still need heal or surdge or smt else

So not enough mana really. If these morphs were stamina based the situation may be balanced
They have everything else but NOT FOR STAMINA
U told they have anything else? So stamsorc have class execute or heal based on stam? Spell reflect? Okaaaaaay....

Cut your crying out.
stamsorc has some of the strongest utility tools .
Streak,Crit surge, hurricane,dark deal,bound armaments, negate, combined with best passives for dps in the entire game.

You get heals from critting people and you complain about having no heals.. are you for real?

I play sorc from nearly realise of this game and have Emp, high pvp rank, completed vMSA, vetTrialsa, challenges in DLC and much more. Do you really think you need to explain me my skill bar?

You really understand nothing in sorc just crying that he has:
1) nerfed Dark deal (now not best utility)
2) Nerfed from 250% to 150% hurricane
3) Streak which punish sorc for using it
4) 3 class stamina morphs (no one of them make direct damage)

You just newbie that think if he has opinion he must sound it in public.
Just a noise of fresh player which play not a sorcerer

The person you are quoting is one of the very experienced oldschool players on PC EU, who is also a high level dueler and competent player overall.

I'm not garbage too.

Streak was broken without cost penalty even now anyone can Streak as much as they want with 3x streak, 2x dark deal 3x streak, and with 3 streaks you get enough space to cast an easy DD without being interrupted.
Hurricane was broken aswell, there was a reason everyone and their mother was using Stamsorc for 6 months.

Sorcs still need some rebalance. Not nerfs but rebalance.
Implosion is too random, curse stacking is an Xv1 nightmare, shieldstacking is stupid, rune cage is too delayed and makes hitting your burst too easy with no counterplay.

Sorc needs a better healing, removal of implosion and changes to shieldstacking and damage spread that improves pressure between bursts while not increasing the burst.
This helps sorcs against people they can't kill now due to their reliance on their burst but keeps them balanced in terms of burst potential against all others

Pinja · December 2017

Speed_Kills wrote: »

@staticwave so this isn't a "Stam sorc and Stam dk needs a spammable" thread. It's a "dizzy swing sucks and I want to run 2h" thread. 2h builds can be successful without dizzy now that rune prison got changed.

It actually did the same if not better last patch when it had the dissorient that lasted longer. Not saying at all that's viable for stam sorc to slot. Heck it wouldn't even be considered viable for mag to slot. They just forced DW into running it.
Don't hype a trash move. -It use to cost less, do more, & last longer.

Pinja · December 2017

BohnT wrote: »

Morvane wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

Morvane wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Morvane wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

can we remove molten armaments from the game, and maybe nerf claws, so that people will stop complaining about stamDk pve.
I seriously dislike the situation.

Its not even about having a spammable anymore, every single time people bring the ''stamDk is good in pve, so let it suffer pvp'' card out.

Morvane wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

I would say stamsorc has great variety, even when lacking a class spammable they have everything else.
So a built in spammable is not neccessary at all. I don't wanna go back to the stamsorc FOTM days,
they are literally stamDk version 2.0 with better passives and more cheese.

For stamDk I would love a stamina poison whip. but I doubt It would change anything. In the end of the day, as long as I'm slow as a turtle and wings are poop, why would I ever wanna drop SnB?

"EVERYTHING ELSE" COST A large amount of mana
LARGE
u cant spam this, u talking about subject you dont know good

I know stamsorc well enough to know that the only thing keeping them balanced is having no strong spammable.
Do you think sorc has high costs? GO friggen play Dk for a single day, I dare you.

7.5k mana cost heal from Pet (clanny, phys morph!!!) = 2 heals when 3 stat food+Shacklebreaker
Streak cost - no comments.
Surdge, Encase - 2 cast = mana over but u still need heal or surdge or smt else

So not enough mana really. If these morphs were stamina based the situation may be balanced
They have everything else but NOT FOR STAMINA
U told they have anything else? So stamsorc have class execute or heal based on stam? Spell reflect? Okaaaaaay....

Cut your crying out.
stamsorc has some of the strongest utility tools .
Streak,Crit surge, hurricane,dark deal,bound armaments, negate, combined with best passives for dps in the entire game.

You get heals from critting people and you complain about having no heals.. are you for real?

I play sorc from nearly realise of this game and have Emp, high pvp rank, completed vMSA, vetTrialsa, challenges in DLC and much more. Do you really think you need to explain me my skill bar?

You really understand nothing in sorc just crying that he has:
1) nerfed Dark deal (now not best utility)
2) Nerfed from 250% to 150% hurricane
3) Streak which punish sorc for using it
4) 3 class stamina morphs (no one of them make direct damage)

You just newbie that think if he has opinion he must sound it in public.
Just a noise of fresh player which play not a sorcerer

The person you are quoting is one of the very experienced oldschool players on PC EU, who is also a high level dueler and competent player overall.

I'm not garbage too.

Streak was broken without cost penalty even now anyone can Streak as much as they want with 3x streak, 2x dark deal 3x streak, and with 3 streaks you get enough space to cast an easy DD without being interrupted.
Hurricane was broken aswell, there was a reason everyone and their mother was using Stamsorc for 6 months.

Sorcs still need some rebalance. Not nerfs but rebalance.
Implosion is too random, curse stacking is an Xv1 nightmare, shieldstacking is stupid, rune cage is too delayed and makes hitting your burst too easy with no counterplay.

Sorc needs a better healing, removal of implosion and changes to shieldstacking and damage spread that improves pressure between bursts while not increasing the burst.
This helps sorcs against people they can't kill now due to their reliance on their burst but keeps them balanced in terms of burst potential against all others

The Stam sorc nerf was a good balance skrew up. There were too many changes to the game at it's time in one Tamriel. Mag sorcs took a major nerf to shields causing alot of good & angry players to re-roll in a stam dominant age, with hurricane added as a positive trade off. A slew of new sets with bugs & re-balance issues were released. Thus the combination of good & angry players looking to experiment led to the revolution of a BIS class whose whole damage table nearly relied on moves out side the class.
A nerf to healing, a nerf to the one slight class damage skill, and a nerf to the op stamina proc sets everyone was running & in which stam sorcs relied on killed its competitiveness.
It's amazing people still complain about it now that's its back to stat based ability gameplay. In which hurricane is little help. Then again they don't, only when noobs complain they can't solo a word boss or know what vMA explosion is...

Speed_Kills · December 2017

@Pinja you're insane if you think it was better last patch. You could dodge roll it, wasting that magicka and not getting your stun. In open world if anyone else was on your target, the disorient was immediately broken= free cc immunity. It is now a long range stun that is super reliable, I don't know what else you could ask for from this skill.

Pinja · December 2017

Speed_Kills wrote: »

@ Pinja you're insane if you think it was better last patch. You could dodge roll it, wasting that magicka and not getting your stun. In open world if anyone else was on your target, the disorient was immediately broken= free cc immunity. It is now a long range stub that is super reliable, I don't know what else you could ask for from this skill.

Last patch there was no or not as exaggerated free-cc immunity. They were discussing changes in the general November combat update but you could've comboed the stun for an extra stun, without even needing to heavy attack.

Ragnarock41 · December 2017

Mihael wrote: »

I really don’t think either class needs a spamable because they would be op if they had one. Stam dk could use some buffs(in pvp) but I don’t think spammable is the way to go especially with venomous claw being so strong

Basically this. I dont mind venom claws getting a nerf as it is very easy to avoid in PvP, thanks to how ridicilous purge and cloak are.

BohnT wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

Morvane wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Morvane wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

can we remove molten armaments from the game, and maybe nerf claws, so that people will stop complaining about stamDk pve.
I seriously dislike the situation.

Its not even about having a spammable anymore, every single time people bring the ''stamDk is good in pve, so let it suffer pvp'' card out.

Morvane wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

I would say stamsorc has great variety, even when lacking a class spammable they have everything else.
So a built in spammable is not neccessary at all. I don't wanna go back to the stamsorc FOTM days,
they are literally stamDk version 2.0 with better passives and more cheese.

For stamDk I would love a stamina poison whip. but I doubt It would change anything. In the end of the day, as long as I'm slow as a turtle and wings are poop, why would I ever wanna drop SnB?

"EVERYTHING ELSE" COST A large amount of mana
LARGE
u cant spam this, u talking about subject you dont know good

I know stamsorc well enough to know that the only thing keeping them balanced is having no strong spammable.
Do you think sorc has high costs? GO friggen play Dk for a single day, I dare you.

7.5k mana cost heal from Pet (clanny, phys morph!!!) = 2 heals when 3 stat food+Shacklebreaker
Streak cost - no comments.
Surdge, Encase - 2 cast = mana over but u still need heal or surdge or smt else

So not enough mana really. If these morphs were stamina based the situation may be balanced
They have everything else but NOT FOR STAMINA
U told they have anything else? So stamsorc have class execute or heal based on stam? Spell reflect? Okaaaaaay....

Cut your crying out.
stamsorc has some of the strongest utility tools .
Streak,Crit surge, hurricane,dark deal,bound armaments, negate, combined with best passives for dps in the entire game.

You get heals from critting people and you complain about having no heals.. are you for real?

I play sorc from nearly realise of this game and have Emp, high pvp rank, completed vMSA, vetTrialsa, challenges in DLC and much more. Do you really think you need to explain me my skill bar?

You really understand nothing in sorc just crying that he has:
1) nerfed Dark deal (now not best utility)
2) Nerfed from 250% to 150% hurricane
3) Streak which punish sorc for using it
4) 3 class stamina morphs (no one of them make direct damage)

You just newbie that think if he has opinion he must sound it in public.
Just a noise of fresh player which play not a sorcerer

The person you are quoting is one of the very experienced oldschool players on PC EU, who is also a high level dueler and competent player overall.

I think you Mix up @Ragnaroek93 and @Ragnarock41

I'm pretty sure @Ragnaroek93 would mostly agree with me on the state of stamDk and stamsorc.
Also why does this comments make me feel like I'm some sort of chinese rip-off...

I also have that stupid beta imgakin monkey, if it makes my opinions anymore valid.. lol.

Ragnaroek93 · December 2017

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Mihael wrote: »

I really don’t think either class needs a spamable because they would be op if they had one. Stam dk could use some buffs(in pvp) but I don’t think spammable is the way to go especially with venomous claw being so strong

Basically this. I dont mind venom claws getting a nerf as it is very easy to avoid in PvP, thanks to how ridicilous purge and cloak are.

BohnT wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

Morvane wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Morvane wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

can we remove molten armaments from the game, and maybe nerf claws, so that people will stop complaining about stamDk pve.
I seriously dislike the situation.

Its not even about having a spammable anymore, every single time people bring the ''stamDk is good in pve, so let it suffer pvp'' card out.

Morvane wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

I would say stamsorc has great variety, even when lacking a class spammable they have everything else.
So a built in spammable is not neccessary at all. I don't wanna go back to the stamsorc FOTM days,
they are literally stamDk version 2.0 with better passives and more cheese.

For stamDk I would love a stamina poison whip. but I doubt It would change anything. In the end of the day, as long as I'm slow as a turtle and wings are poop, why would I ever wanna drop SnB?

"EVERYTHING ELSE" COST A large amount of mana
LARGE
u cant spam this, u talking about subject you dont know good

I know stamsorc well enough to know that the only thing keeping them balanced is having no strong spammable.
Do you think sorc has high costs? GO friggen play Dk for a single day, I dare you.

7.5k mana cost heal from Pet (clanny, phys morph!!!) = 2 heals when 3 stat food+Shacklebreaker
Streak cost - no comments.
Surdge, Encase - 2 cast = mana over but u still need heal or surdge or smt else

So not enough mana really. If these morphs were stamina based the situation may be balanced
They have everything else but NOT FOR STAMINA
U told they have anything else? So stamsorc have class execute or heal based on stam? Spell reflect? Okaaaaaay....

Cut your crying out.
stamsorc has some of the strongest utility tools .
Streak,Crit surge, hurricane,dark deal,bound armaments, negate, combined with best passives for dps in the entire game.

You get heals from critting people and you complain about having no heals.. are you for real?

I play sorc from nearly realise of this game and have Emp, high pvp rank, completed vMSA, vetTrialsa, challenges in DLC and much more. Do you really think you need to explain me my skill bar?

You really understand nothing in sorc just crying that he has:
1) nerfed Dark deal (now not best utility)
2) Nerfed from 250% to 150% hurricane
3) Streak which punish sorc for using it
4) 3 class stamina morphs (no one of them make direct damage)

You just newbie that think if he has opinion he must sound it in public.
Just a noise of fresh player which play not a sorcerer

The person you are quoting is one of the very experienced oldschool players on PC EU, who is also a high level dueler and competent player overall.

I think you Mix up @Ragnaroek93 and @Ragnarock41

I'm pretty sure @Ragnaroek93 would mostly agree with me on the state of stamDk and stamsorc.
Also why does this comments make me feel like I'm some sort of chinese rip-off...
I also have that stupid beta imgakin monkey, if it makes my opinions anymore valid.. lol.

I think both classes should get a small buff. Making Flurry and Wrecking Blow a good spammable instant cast would help both classes a lot and make them more viable on bow and dual wield builds for example. The only thing which makes both classes somehow "strong" is the heal debuff from sword and board.

I would also give stamina a bit more defense while nerfing cloak and sword and board a bit to prevent nb and snb builds becoming too strong.

Stam sorc seems pretty dead if they release the announced interrupt changes imo.

Ragnarock41 · December 2017

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Mihael wrote: »

I really don’t think either class needs a spamable because they would be op if they had one. Stam dk could use some buffs(in pvp) but I don’t think spammable is the way to go especially with venomous claw being so strong

Basically this. I dont mind venom claws getting a nerf as it is very easy to avoid in PvP, thanks to how ridicilous purge and cloak are.

BohnT wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

Morvane wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Morvane wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

can we remove molten armaments from the game, and maybe nerf claws, so that people will stop complaining about stamDk pve.
I seriously dislike the situation.

Its not even about having a spammable anymore, every single time people bring the ''stamDk is good in pve, so let it suffer pvp'' card out.

Morvane wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

I would say stamsorc has great variety, even when lacking a class spammable they have everything else.
So a built in spammable is not neccessary at all. I don't wanna go back to the stamsorc FOTM days,
they are literally stamDk version 2.0 with better passives and more cheese.

For stamDk I would love a stamina poison whip. but I doubt It would change anything. In the end of the day, as long as I'm slow as a turtle and wings are poop, why would I ever wanna drop SnB?

"EVERYTHING ELSE" COST A large amount of mana
LARGE
u cant spam this, u talking about subject you dont know good

I know stamsorc well enough to know that the only thing keeping them balanced is having no strong spammable.
Do you think sorc has high costs? GO friggen play Dk for a single day, I dare you.

7.5k mana cost heal from Pet (clanny, phys morph!!!) = 2 heals when 3 stat food+Shacklebreaker
Streak cost - no comments.
Surdge, Encase - 2 cast = mana over but u still need heal or surdge or smt else

So not enough mana really. If these morphs were stamina based the situation may be balanced
They have everything else but NOT FOR STAMINA
U told they have anything else? So stamsorc have class execute or heal based on stam? Spell reflect? Okaaaaaay....

Cut your crying out.
stamsorc has some of the strongest utility tools .
Streak,Crit surge, hurricane,dark deal,bound armaments, negate, combined with best passives for dps in the entire game.

You get heals from critting people and you complain about having no heals.. are you for real?

I play sorc from nearly realise of this game and have Emp, high pvp rank, completed vMSA, vetTrialsa, challenges in DLC and much more. Do you really think you need to explain me my skill bar?

You really understand nothing in sorc just crying that he has:
1) nerfed Dark deal (now not best utility)
2) Nerfed from 250% to 150% hurricane
3) Streak which punish sorc for using it
4) 3 class stamina morphs (no one of them make direct damage)

You just newbie that think if he has opinion he must sound it in public.
Just a noise of fresh player which play not a sorcerer

The person you are quoting is one of the very experienced oldschool players on PC EU, who is also a high level dueler and competent player overall.

I think you Mix up @Ragnaroek93 and @Ragnarock41

I'm pretty sure @Ragnaroek93 would mostly agree with me on the state of stamDk and stamsorc.
Also why does this comments make me feel like I'm some sort of chinese rip-off...
I also have that stupid beta imgakin monkey, if it makes my opinions anymore valid.. lol.

I think both classes should get a small buff. Making Flurry and Wrecking Blow a good spammable instant cast would help both classes a lot and make them more viable on bow and dual wield builds for example. The only thing which makes both classes somehow "strong" is the heal debuff from sword and board.

I would also give stamina a bit more defense while nerfing cloak and sword and board a bit to prevent nb and snb builds becoming too strong.

Stam sorc seems pretty dead if they release the announced interrupt changes imo.

I can't help but agree with you.
An instant cast wrecking blow sounds so sweet, and It would actually give that morph a meaning over dizzying swing.

on the interrupt changes, I can't talk yet since I didnt tested it, but If It is what I think it is, then stamsorc might be in real trouble this time, or not. I'm simply waiting for the PTS patch before panicking.

Haquor · December 2017

Qbiken wrote: »

At the moment stamina DK has the highest single target DPS in the game. Most powerful DoT in the game (Venomous Claw). I understand that you write from a PvP point of view, but buffing stamDK DPS even more would be a really bad idea since they´re are already #1 PvE DPS-class. Stamsorc isn´t far behind either. So even though I understand your point, there´s a fine line between buffing those two classes you mention with PvP in mind, without giving those classes a even further boost in PvE.

In comparison to stamina Warden, I can agree other classes have a hard time to compete.

Class spamables make the class playstyle more unique in my opinion. If i added a spammable to either sorc or dk rotation i would lose uptime on dots so it would effect dps anyway. I would rather reduced damage from dots and the availability of a spammable to make the class more fun (my opinion) and versatile and not so relient on weapon dots and weapon spamables.

Morvane · December 2017

BohnT wrote: »

Morvane wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

Morvane wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Morvane wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

can we remove molten armaments from the game, and maybe nerf claws, so that people will stop complaining about stamDk pve.
I seriously dislike the situation.

Its not even about having a spammable anymore, every single time people bring the ''stamDk is good in pve, so let it suffer pvp'' card out.

Morvane wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

I would say stamsorc has great variety, even when lacking a class spammable they have everything else.
So a built in spammable is not neccessary at all. I don't wanna go back to the stamsorc FOTM days,
they are literally stamDk version 2.0 with better passives and more cheese.

For stamDk I would love a stamina poison whip. but I doubt It would change anything. In the end of the day, as long as I'm slow as a turtle and wings are poop, why would I ever wanna drop SnB?

"EVERYTHING ELSE" COST A large amount of mana
LARGE
u cant spam this, u talking about subject you dont know good

I know stamsorc well enough to know that the only thing keeping them balanced is having no strong spammable.
Do you think sorc has high costs? GO friggen play Dk for a single day, I dare you.

7.5k mana cost heal from Pet (clanny, phys morph!!!) = 2 heals when 3 stat food+Shacklebreaker
Streak cost - no comments.
Surdge, Encase - 2 cast = mana over but u still need heal or surdge or smt else

So not enough mana really. If these morphs were stamina based the situation may be balanced
They have everything else but NOT FOR STAMINA
U told they have anything else? So stamsorc have class execute or heal based on stam? Spell reflect? Okaaaaaay....

Cut your crying out.
stamsorc has some of the strongest utility tools .
Streak,Crit surge, hurricane,dark deal,bound armaments, negate, combined with best passives for dps in the entire game.

You get heals from critting people and you complain about having no heals.. are you for real?

I play sorc from nearly realise of this game and have Emp, high pvp rank, completed vMSA, vetTrialsa, challenges in DLC and much more. Do you really think you need to explain me my skill bar?

You really understand nothing in sorc just crying that he has:
1) nerfed Dark deal (now not best utility)
2) Nerfed from 250% to 150% hurricane
3) Streak which punish sorc for using it
4) 3 class stamina morphs (no one of them make direct damage)

You just newbie that think if he has opinion he must sound it in public.
Just a noise of fresh player which play not a sorcerer

The person you are quoting is one of the very experienced oldschool players on PC EU, who is also a high level dueler and competent player overall.

I'm not garbage too.

Streak was broken without cost penalty even now anyone can Streak as much as they want with 3x streak, 2x dark deal 3x streak, and with 3 streaks you get enough space to cast an easy DD without being interrupted.
Hurricane was broken aswell, there was a reason everyone and their mother was using Stamsorc for 6 months.

Sorcs still need some rebalance. Not nerfs but rebalance.
Implosion is too random, curse stacking is an Xv1 nightmare, shieldstacking is stupid, rune cage is too delayed and makes hitting your burst too easy with no counterplay.

Sorc needs a better healing, removal of implosion and changes to shieldstacking and damage spread that improves pressure between bursts while not increasing the burst.
This helps sorcs against people they can't kill now due to their reliance on their burst but keeps them balanced in terms of burst potential against all others

this will help sorc to deal no damage, no controll and die fast from pigs, gooses, bees and guars

StaticWave · December 2017

Speed_Kills wrote: »

@staticwave so this isn't a "Stam sorc and Stam dk needs a spammable" thread. It's a "dizzy swing sucks and I want to run 2h" thread. 2h builds can be successful without dizzy now that rune prison got changed.

It's not just dizzy swing. It's that stamsorcs and stamdks rely too much on weapon skills when other stam classes have their own class dps skill like sub assault, cutting dive, jabs, surprise attack

StaticWave · December 2017

Mihael wrote: »

I really don’t think either class needs a spamable because they would be op if they had one. Stam dk could use some buffs(in pvp) but I don’t think spammable is the way to go especially with venomous claw being so strong

Rework an unused morph in their class skill lines is the best way imo.

ak_pvp · December 2017

I don't think SS needs a spammable. But I personally like the fast flurry hits with the fast feel of the class. It does need something though.

Make overload have a stam morph that speeds up all their attacks for X seconds and grants a separate speed buff of 15%

Kronuxx · December 2017

I agree with @StaticWave that stamdk needs a class spammable. For sake of brevity, every class has one besides stamina dk and stamina sorc. The fact that some people are complaining about this fact just goes to show that some are afraid that their laurels will be wrested from them. Why do I have to be pigeon-holed to using weapon skills as spammable. What an asinine arguement. In addition, because DK's have no class spammable it also limits our gear choices. No swamp raider, no innate axiom, etc etc.

How about this: from now on I will make it my goal to try and convince ZOS that no class should have primary damage dealing class spammable, but rather everyone is forced to use dots and weapon skills. Wouldn't be so fun now would it?

Qbiken · December 2017

Kronuxx wrote: »

I agree with @StaticWave that stamdk needs a class spammable. For sake of brevity, every class has one besides stamina dk and stamina sorc. The fact that some people are complaining about this fact just goes to show that some are afraid that their laurels will be wrested from them. Why do I have to be pigeon-holed to using weapon skills as spammable. What an asinine arguement. In addition, because DK's have no class spammable it also limits our gear choices. No swamp raider, no innate axiom, etc etc.

How about this: from now on I will make it my goal to try and convince ZOS that no class should have primary damage dealing class spammable, but rather everyone is forced to use dots and weapon skills. Wouldn't be so fun now would it?

Swamp raider procs from Flames Of Oblivon and synergies very well with stamDK..

Durham · December 2017

Pay attention to the duels folks edge has clearly gone magicka.. Stam has been hit in the last 5 patches ... Stam DKs are nothing like they were in previous patches.. An =skilled magicka dk should take out a stam dk end of story....
Stam whip will not matter.. poison whip will not hit harder then a flame whip most of the pop in Cyrodil is vamps .... Keep in mind CC is the killer with magicka DKs.. With the nerf to ingenious shields stam DKs were hit it partically hard...that was 40% decrease in the access to major mending 60% if you cast shields first...

TheMystid · December 2017

Imho stamDks biggest issue isn’t the lack of a class spammable. It rather is their defensive kit (bad heals, bad wings, bad defensive class ultimates and so on), which is outdated and force them into a boring/lacklustre playstyle (like permablock)...

Also, I think Stamdk started dying (as a funny to play class) the moment Zos made max-stamina builds ineffective nerfing earthen heart passives (with the max level scaling ***). Please revert that... (won't happen I know )

Xvorg · December 2017

Ocelot9x wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Ocelot9x wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Speed_Kills wrote: »

No, Stam sorc doesn't need a spammable. Yes, it would make it super easy to build a successful Stam sorc build and would allow you to run less weapon skills. However, a spammable is available in every weapon skill line available to Stam sorc. If you want to run 2h/bow without dizzy swing, grab a maelstrom or master 2h-- problem solved. Dual wield offers rapid strikes, flying blade, and steelnado (lots of choices). Sword and board also offers 2 great options: puncture and heroic slash, and also provides a cc/defile in reverb (if you don't use reverb you can also get a pretty nasty spammable from shield bash). I also have not put on heavy this entire patch, medium is where it's at.

You're using duelwield/2h which is arguably the strongest setup for stamsorc. Most of your dsp comes from the weapon skill line. Having to use a certain weapon just to be able to run a 2h/bow setup without dizzy is just lame imo. Dizzy swing is a better spammable than cleave, but it is too unreliable compared to surprise attack and biting jabs. I can cancel a light attack and surprise attack combo with dodge roll easily whereas dizzy swing needs to be channeled and good players can just dodge it, block it, or run through me. I'm specifically asking for a class spammable because it opens up more build options.

SA is not so reliable (in fact, Ransack is way better for weaving and any NB can use WB out of nowhere). Jabs hitting the air are so common it hurts and compared to Rapids they give little back (Rapids have certain execute associated, not to mention the dmg increase on stunned enemies).

Stam class spammables are way overrated and in turn give little back. On the contrary, Stam weapon abilities are great and have way better passives associated

I beg to differ. Surprise attack is an amazing dps. I can do the light attack + surprise attack + bash combo just as fast as light attack + ransack + bash. Landing jabs won't be a problem if you use speed pots. Your jabs hitting the air is probably because your target is out of range or you are snared. Jabs slow for 70%, can proc burning light for more damage, and does aoe which is amazing in group play. You don't see stamplars using rapid strikes over jabs because jabs outperform it in both single target dps and aoe dps.

But the passives associated to SA are almost useless. You can proc them just by using cloak, while bashing with ransack does significantly moar dmg.

The only reason to run SA is when paired with DW. When paired with 2H or S/B is quite redundant.

Regarding Jabs, most of the stamplars I see use it because it is an AoE so dodgeroll doesn't work. Neither burning light, nor the snare are game turner passives compared to the dmg increase on low health enemies or the bonus on stunned targets. Even more, if you use toppling charge as gap closer on a DW stamplar, not using rapids could be a mistake (not to mention that Rapids costs less stam and gives one extra chance to proc TBaB bleed)

With that, I don't want to say stam class spamables are bad, in turn I try to let you see that Class and Weapon spammables are in the very same level. When used properly can be painful as hell.

By the way, as a stamblade, what execute do you prefer, executioner or killer's blade?

Lol just stop please. Puncture better than SA?
And I've yet to see a stamplar running rapids. Jabs are way better.

I never said it is better, I said that they are in the same level. You can go with SA on a S/B NB, but you will be missing a lot buffs and debuffs if using cloak, so, why choosing SA in that case?

I still don't get it,pardon.
Sa more damage,major fracture,major ward resolve
Puncture lower damage,major fracture,minor resolve
??

Cloak also gives you major ward and resolve, so if you use cloak on a S/B stamblade then you are using the shadow barrier too. Same if you go for Mass Hysteria as CC.

Then, if you use ransack after cloak/MH, you are getting both, Major and minor resolve and major ward and applying the same debuff SA gives and spending less stam... and extra dmg can be compensated with an oblivion glyph, that does not proc on SA, not to mention the extra dmg you get on bash

Kronuxx · December 2017

Qbiken wrote: »

Kronuxx wrote: »

I agree with @StaticWave that stamdk needs a class spammable. For sake of brevity, every class has one besides stamina dk and stamina sorc. The fact that some people are complaining about this fact just goes to show that some are afraid that their laurels will be wrested from them. Why do I have to be pigeon-holed to using weapon skills as spammable. What an asinine arguement. In addition, because DK's have no class spammable it also limits our gear choices. No swamp raider, no innate axiom, etc etc.

How about this: from now on I will make it my goal to try and convince ZOS that no class should have primary damage dealing class spammable, but rather everyone is forced to use dots and weapon skills. Wouldn't be so fun now would it?

Swamp raider procs from Flames Of Oblivon and synergies very well with stamDK..

Riiightt...synergizes well with venomous claw and noxious breath. I sure would love that boost in weapon damage to my dots. Perhaps I should have made myself clear, but I was referring to PvP. Stamdks dots get cleansed/purged all the time. Additionally venomous claw has to be applied to each individual attacker as opposed to aoe dots, and the hit box for noxious breath is so damn wonky, that you'd be lucky if it lands on your test the first time you apply it.