Give stamsorc and stamdk a class spammable dps

StaticWave · December 2017

Title says it all. Stamsorcs and stam dks have been getting little to no love for the past few patches. In medium, they don't perform as well compared to nightblades or stamplars, and they kind of depend on heavy armor for survival in solo pvp. They also rely too much on weapon skills and don't really have a strong spammable class skill like surprise attack, biting jabs, cutting dive, etc. Their damage output is too unreliable especially if they use 2h since their entire combo mostly revolves around dizzy swing which is hard to land vs good players. Stam wardens outperform both classes with 2h because they have sub assault which gives major fracture and can be timed with dizzy swing. If players want to be competitive, they have to use duelwield/2h on stamsorc and duelwield/2h or s/b,2h on stam dk. But this makes the class boring to play because there isn't a lot of variety in builds. I suggest giving stamsorcs and stam dks a class spammable dps by reworking one of the unused morphs in their class skill lines.

Qbiken · December 2017

At the moment stamina DK has the highest single target DPS in the game. Most powerful DoT in the game (Venomous Claw). I understand that you write from a PvP point of view, but buffing stamDK DPS even more would be a really bad idea since they´re are already #1 PvE DPS-class. Stamsorc isn´t far behind either. So even though I understand your point, there´s a fine line between buffing those two classes you mention with PvP in mind, without giving those classes a even further boost in PvE.

In comparison to stamina Warden, I can agree other classes have a hard time to compete.

Ragnarock41 · December 2017

I would say stamsorc has great variety, even when lacking a class spammable they have everything else.
So a built in spammable is not neccessary at all. I don't wanna go back to the stamsorc FOTM days,
they are literally stamDk version 2.0 with better passives and more cheese.

For stamDk I would love a stamina poison whip. but I doubt It would change anything. In the end of the day, as long as I'm slow as a turtle and wings are poop, why would I ever wanna drop SnB?

GrigorijMalahevich · December 2017

Wat? Stamdk has best spammable in the game...

Magsorc and stamsorc don’t have spammables at all...

Qbiken · December 2017

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

I would say stamsorc has great variety, even when lacking a class spammable they have everything else.
So a built in spammable is not neccessary at all. I don't wanna go back to the stamsorc FOTM days,
they are literally stamDk version 2.0 with better passives and more cheese.

For stamDk I would love a stamina poison whip. but I doubt It would change anything. In the end of the day, as long as I'm slow as a turtle and wings are poop, why would I ever wanna drop SnB?

StamDK can have their poison-whip when magDK can use their whip without the need of off-balance

Vaoh · December 2017

Not every class needs to have every single type of skill. It makes the classes feel different.

DK doesn't have an execute either, but their DoT damage is strong enough to melt enemies with basically the highest PvE DPS despite the lack of an execute.

Pinja · December 2017

Don't hate the concept, but their are secrets to a stam dk that let them do a great many things... Though ya stam builds usually rely on the 4 weapon lines.
They did get sacked a caliber by wardens though, they're that whole tank sustain thing but Dks to a lesser degree.

coplannb16_ESO · December 2017

Id rather have skills that wouldnt force me into melee range as a LA mDK and a working sustain method

Vapirko · December 2017

Stamsorc doesn’t really need help, if you gave them one it would have to be better than what’s available already and they’re already very strong in PvE and PvP.

Ragnarock41 · December 2017

Qbiken wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

I would say stamsorc has great variety, even when lacking a class spammable they have everything else.
So a built in spammable is not neccessary at all. I don't wanna go back to the stamsorc FOTM days,
they are literally stamDk version 2.0 with better passives and more cheese.

For stamDk I would love a stamina poison whip. but I doubt It would change anything. In the end of the day, as long as I'm slow as a turtle and wings are poop, why would I ever wanna drop SnB?

StamDK can have their poison-whip when magDK can use their whip without the need of off-balance

As I said It wont change much.
Dots are literal garbage for PvP.
Because purge, cloak,shield spam exists, and they all shut down dots pretty effectively.

Tho that being said, I know mDk pve has some problems that need fixing.hopefully in the next combat update they will adress it.

I love how every time someone talks about stamDk, lots of PvE players drop in and talk about how ridicilous stamDk is and how it does 50k+ dps easy.

And then they say stop ruining PvE because of PvP. gives me a good laugh.
Because I totally asked for an off-balance buff and a heavy attack meta cus that sounds soo much fun.

This is clearly a PvP based post so why talk non sense about how it performs in PvE?
Last time I checked people were doing naked vMA runs, does it even matter at this point?

GreenhaloX · December 2017

I don't with my 2H StamDK, but seems certain peeps tend to spam Wrecking Blow or Dizzying Swing and Venomous Claws over and over again. Same for the 2H StamSorc, aside from the Venomous Claws. I also see certain peeps spam Mage's Wrath over and over again with a StamSorc (well, also same with certain peeps using a Magsorc.) I guess they are getting dps they are comfortable with there. I still have fun and enjoy rolling around with my 2H StamDK and StamSorc. With good skillsets slotted and a good rotation, both classes' abilities are still very good.

SoLooney · December 2017

stam dks already have highest single target dmg in pve and are very tanky, they dont need a buff.
stam sorcs are also very strong, none needed there

Speed_Kills · December 2017

No, Stam sorc doesn't need a spammable. Yes, it would make it super easy to build a successful Stam sorc build and would allow you to run less weapon skills. However, a spammable is available in every weapon skill line available to Stam sorc. If you want to run 2h/bow without dizzy swing, grab a maelstrom or master 2h-- problem solved. Dual wield offers rapid strikes, flying blade, and steelnado (lots of choices). Sword and board also offers 2 great options: puncture and heroic slash, and also provides a cc/defile in reverb (if you don't use reverb you can also get a pretty nasty spammable from shield bash). I also have not put on heavy this entire patch, medium is where it's at.

StaticWave · December 2017

Vapirko wrote: »

Stamsorc doesn’t really need help, if you gave them one it would have to be better than what’s available already and they’re already very strong in PvE and PvP.

You don't see them that often in pvp. Most stamsorc builds run duelwield or heavy armor 2h. There isn't any variety

StaticWave · December 2017

Speed_Kills wrote: »

No, Stam sorc doesn't need a spammable. Yes, it would make it super easy to build a successful Stam sorc build and would allow you to run less weapon skills. However, a spammable is available in every weapon skill line available to Stam sorc. If you want to run 2h/bow without dizzy swing, grab a maelstrom or master 2h-- problem solved. Dual wield offers rapid strikes, flying blade, and steelnado (lots of choices). Sword and board also offers 2 great options: puncture and heroic slash, and also provides a cc/defile in reverb (if you don't use reverb you can also get a pretty nasty spammable from shield bash). I also have not put on heavy this entire patch, medium is where it's at.

You're using duelwield/2h which is arguably the strongest setup for stamsorc. Most of your dsp comes from the weapon skill line. Having to use a certain weapon just to be able to run a 2h/bow setup without dizzy is just lame imo. Dizzy swing is a better spammable than cleave, but it is too unreliable compared to surprise attack and biting jabs. I can cancel a light attack and surprise attack combo with dodge roll easily whereas dizzy swing needs to be channeled and good players can just dodge it, block it, or run through me. I'm specifically asking for a class spammable because it opens up more build options.

StaticWave · December 2017

Speed_Kills wrote: »

No, Stam sorc doesn't need a spammable. Yes, it would make it super easy to build a successful Stam sorc build and would allow you to run less weapon skills. However, a spammable is available in every weapon skill line available to Stam sorc. If you want to run 2h/bow without dizzy swing, grab a maelstrom or master 2h-- problem solved. Dual wield offers rapid strikes, flying blade, and steelnado (lots of choices). Sword and board also offers 2 great options: puncture and heroic slash, and also provides a cc/defile in reverb (if you don't use reverb you can also get a pretty nasty spammable from shield bash). I also have not put on heavy this entire patch, medium is where it's at.

You're using duelwield/2h which is the strongest setup for stamsorc. Most of your dsp comes from the weapon skill line. Dizzy swing is a better spammable than cleave, but it is too unreliable compared to surprise attack and biting jabs. I can cancel a light attack and surprise attack combo with dodge roll easily whereas dizzy swing needs to be channeled and good players can just dodge it, block it, or run through me. I'm specifically asking for a class spammable because it opens up more build options. You haven't used heavy because you're running impreg which is really strong on a stamsorc. Without that crit resist you don't have enough survivability against other classes.

StaticWave · December 2017

Qbiken wrote: »

At the moment stamina DK has the highest single target DPS in the game. Most powerful DoT in the game (Venomous Claw). I understand that you write from a PvP point of view, but buffing stamDK DPS even more would be a really bad idea since they´re are already #1 PvE DPS-class. Stamsorc isn´t far behind either. So even though I understand your point, there´s a fine line between buffing those two classes you mention with PvP in mind, without giving those classes a even further boost in PvE.

In comparison to stamina Warden, I can agree other classes have a hard time to compete.

I'm talking from a PvP perspective.

Xvorg · December 2017

StaticWave wrote: »

Speed_Kills wrote: »

No, Stam sorc doesn't need a spammable. Yes, it would make it super easy to build a successful Stam sorc build and would allow you to run less weapon skills. However, a spammable is available in every weapon skill line available to Stam sorc. If you want to run 2h/bow without dizzy swing, grab a maelstrom or master 2h-- problem solved. Dual wield offers rapid strikes, flying blade, and steelnado (lots of choices). Sword and board also offers 2 great options: puncture and heroic slash, and also provides a cc/defile in reverb (if you don't use reverb you can also get a pretty nasty spammable from shield bash). I also have not put on heavy this entire patch, medium is where it's at.

You're using duelwield/2h which is arguably the strongest setup for stamsorc. Most of your dsp comes from the weapon skill line. Having to use a certain weapon just to be able to run a 2h/bow setup without dizzy is just lame imo. Dizzy swing is a better spammable than cleave, but it is too unreliable compared to surprise attack and biting jabs. I can cancel a light attack and surprise attack combo with dodge roll easily whereas dizzy swing needs to be channeled and good players can just dodge it, block it, or run through me. I'm specifically asking for a class spammable because it opens up more build options.

SA is not so reliable (in fact, Ransack is way better for weaving and any NB can use WB out of nowhere). Jabs hitting the air are so common it hurts and compared to Rapids they give little back (Rapids have certain execute associated, not to mention the dmg increase on stunned enemies).

Stam class spammables are way overrated and in turn give little back. On the contrary, Stam weapon abilities are great and have way better passives associated

StaticWave · December 2017

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

I would say stamsorc has great variety, even when lacking a class spammable they have everything else.
So a built in spammable is not neccessary at all. I don't wanna go back to the stamsorc FOTM days,
they are literally stamDk version 2.0 with better passives and more cheese.

For stamDk I would love a stamina poison whip. but I doubt It would change anything. In the end of the day, as long as I'm slow as a turtle and wings are poop, why would I ever wanna drop SnB?

I'd say stamsorc was FOTM because heavy armor was still good and sets like black rose gave them a lot of survivability and sustain. Coupled with cheese sets like viper, stamsorc was very strong. But if you take away the procs and only use sets that boost base stats, stamsorc does not do as well in 2h compared to nightblades and stamplars because those 2 classes have better spammables. Nbs have incap and surprise attack which can be ani canceled easily, not to mention the light attack, ransack, bash combo can be replicated on a nb with surprise attack. Stamplars have biting jabs which is an amazing aoe spammable dps that slows for 70% and gives you major savagery. Not to mention it can easily proc the burning light pasive for much more extra damage. Anything a 2h stamsorc can do, nightblades and stamplars can do better.

As for 2h stam dks, their dots can be cleansed or cloaked, so a lot of their damage is lost. Dizzy swing is an unreliable skill. Good players won't get hit by it. Anytime I'm on my nb and see a 2h stamsorc or 2h stam dk in medium armor, it's an easy kill for me because i rarely get hit by their dizzy swing.

StaticWave · December 2017

Xvorg wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Speed_Kills wrote: »

No, Stam sorc doesn't need a spammable. Yes, it would make it super easy to build a successful Stam sorc build and would allow you to run less weapon skills. However, a spammable is available in every weapon skill line available to Stam sorc. If you want to run 2h/bow without dizzy swing, grab a maelstrom or master 2h-- problem solved. Dual wield offers rapid strikes, flying blade, and steelnado (lots of choices). Sword and board also offers 2 great options: puncture and heroic slash, and also provides a cc/defile in reverb (if you don't use reverb you can also get a pretty nasty spammable from shield bash). I also have not put on heavy this entire patch, medium is where it's at.

You're using duelwield/2h which is arguably the strongest setup for stamsorc. Most of your dsp comes from the weapon skill line. Having to use a certain weapon just to be able to run a 2h/bow setup without dizzy is just lame imo. Dizzy swing is a better spammable than cleave, but it is too unreliable compared to surprise attack and biting jabs. I can cancel a light attack and surprise attack combo with dodge roll easily whereas dizzy swing needs to be channeled and good players can just dodge it, block it, or run through me. I'm specifically asking for a class spammable because it opens up more build options.

SA is not so reliable (in fact, Ransack is way better for weaving and any NB can use WB out of nowhere). Jabs hitting the air are so common it hurts and compared to Rapids they give little back (Rapids have certain execute associated, not to mention the dmg increase on stunned enemies).

Stam class spammables are way overrated and in turn give little back. On the contrary, Stam weapon abilities are great and have way better passives associated

I beg to differ. Surprise attack is an amazing dps. I can do the light attack + surprise attack + bash combo just as fast as light attack + ransack + bash. Landing jabs won't be a problem if you use speed pots. Your jabs hitting the air is probably because your target is out of range or you are snared. Jabs slow for 70%, can proc burning light for more damage, and does aoe which is amazing in group play. You don't see stamplars using rapid strikes over jabs because jabs outperform it in both single target dps and aoe dps.

Xvorg · December 2017

StaticWave wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Speed_Kills wrote: »

No, Stam sorc doesn't need a spammable. Yes, it would make it super easy to build a successful Stam sorc build and would allow you to run less weapon skills. However, a spammable is available in every weapon skill line available to Stam sorc. If you want to run 2h/bow without dizzy swing, grab a maelstrom or master 2h-- problem solved. Dual wield offers rapid strikes, flying blade, and steelnado (lots of choices). Sword and board also offers 2 great options: puncture and heroic slash, and also provides a cc/defile in reverb (if you don't use reverb you can also get a pretty nasty spammable from shield bash). I also have not put on heavy this entire patch, medium is where it's at.

You're using duelwield/2h which is arguably the strongest setup for stamsorc. Most of your dsp comes from the weapon skill line. Having to use a certain weapon just to be able to run a 2h/bow setup without dizzy is just lame imo. Dizzy swing is a better spammable than cleave, but it is too unreliable compared to surprise attack and biting jabs. I can cancel a light attack and surprise attack combo with dodge roll easily whereas dizzy swing needs to be channeled and good players can just dodge it, block it, or run through me. I'm specifically asking for a class spammable because it opens up more build options.

SA is not so reliable (in fact, Ransack is way better for weaving and any NB can use WB out of nowhere). Jabs hitting the air are so common it hurts and compared to Rapids they give little back (Rapids have certain execute associated, not to mention the dmg increase on stunned enemies).

Stam class spammables are way overrated and in turn give little back. On the contrary, Stam weapon abilities are great and have way better passives associated

I beg to differ. Surprise attack is an amazing dps. I can do the light attack + surprise attack + bash combo just as fast as light attack + ransack + bash. Landing jabs won't be a problem if you use speed pots. Your jabs hitting the air is probably because your target is out of range or you are snared. Jabs slow for 70%, can proc burning light for more damage, and does aoe which is amazing in group play. You don't see stamplars using rapid strikes over jabs because jabs outperform it in both single target dps and aoe dps.

But the passives associated to SA are almost useless. You can proc them just by using cloak, while bashing with ransack does significantly moar dmg.

The only reason to run SA is when paired with DW. When paired with 2H or S/B is quite redundant.

Regarding Jabs, most of the stamplars I see use it because it is an AoE so dodgeroll doesn't work. Neither burning light, nor the snare are game turner passives compared to the dmg increase on low health enemies or the bonus on stunned targets. Even more, if you use toppling charge as gap closer on a DW stamplar, not using rapids could be a mistake (not to mention that Rapids costs less stam and gives one extra chance to proc TBaB bleed)

With that, I don't want to say stam class spamables are bad, in turn I try to let you see that Class and Weapon spammables are in the very same level. When used properly can be painful as hell.

By the way, as a stamblade, what execute do you prefer, executioner or killer's blade?

Ocelot9x · December 2017

Xvorg wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Speed_Kills wrote: »

No, Stam sorc doesn't need a spammable. Yes, it would make it super easy to build a successful Stam sorc build and would allow you to run less weapon skills. However, a spammable is available in every weapon skill line available to Stam sorc. If you want to run 2h/bow without dizzy swing, grab a maelstrom or master 2h-- problem solved. Dual wield offers rapid strikes, flying blade, and steelnado (lots of choices). Sword and board also offers 2 great options: puncture and heroic slash, and also provides a cc/defile in reverb (if you don't use reverb you can also get a pretty nasty spammable from shield bash). I also have not put on heavy this entire patch, medium is where it's at.

You're using duelwield/2h which is arguably the strongest setup for stamsorc. Most of your dsp comes from the weapon skill line. Having to use a certain weapon just to be able to run a 2h/bow setup without dizzy is just lame imo. Dizzy swing is a better spammable than cleave, but it is too unreliable compared to surprise attack and biting jabs. I can cancel a light attack and surprise attack combo with dodge roll easily whereas dizzy swing needs to be channeled and good players can just dodge it, block it, or run through me. I'm specifically asking for a class spammable because it opens up more build options.

SA is not so reliable (in fact, Ransack is way better for weaving and any NB can use WB out of nowhere). Jabs hitting the air are so common it hurts and compared to Rapids they give little back (Rapids have certain execute associated, not to mention the dmg increase on stunned enemies).

Stam class spammables are way overrated and in turn give little back. On the contrary, Stam weapon abilities are great and have way better passives associated

I beg to differ. Surprise attack is an amazing dps. I can do the light attack + surprise attack + bash combo just as fast as light attack + ransack + bash. Landing jabs won't be a problem if you use speed pots. Your jabs hitting the air is probably because your target is out of range or you are snared. Jabs slow for 70%, can proc burning light for more damage, and does aoe which is amazing in group play. You don't see stamplars using rapid strikes over jabs because jabs outperform it in both single target dps and aoe dps.

But the passives associated to SA are almost useless. You can proc them just by using cloak, while bashing with ransack does significantly moar dmg.

The only reason to run SA is when paired with DW. When paired with 2H or S/B is quite redundant.

Regarding Jabs, most of the stamplars I see use it because it is an AoE so dodgeroll doesn't work. Neither burning light, nor the snare are game turner passives compared to the dmg increase on low health enemies or the bonus on stunned targets. Even more, if you use toppling charge as gap closer on a DW stamplar, not using rapids could be a mistake (not to mention that Rapids costs less stam and gives one extra chance to proc TBaB bleed)

With that, I don't want to say stam class spamables are bad, in turn I try to let you see that Class and Weapon spammables are in the very same level. When used properly can be painful as hell.

By the way, as a stamblade, what execute do you prefer, executioner or killer's blade?

Lol just stop please. Puncture better than SA?
And I've yet to see a stamplar running rapids. Jabs are way better.

Xvorg · December 2017

Ocelot9x wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Speed_Kills wrote: »

No, Stam sorc doesn't need a spammable. Yes, it would make it super easy to build a successful Stam sorc build and would allow you to run less weapon skills. However, a spammable is available in every weapon skill line available to Stam sorc. If you want to run 2h/bow without dizzy swing, grab a maelstrom or master 2h-- problem solved. Dual wield offers rapid strikes, flying blade, and steelnado (lots of choices). Sword and board also offers 2 great options: puncture and heroic slash, and also provides a cc/defile in reverb (if you don't use reverb you can also get a pretty nasty spammable from shield bash). I also have not put on heavy this entire patch, medium is where it's at.

You're using duelwield/2h which is arguably the strongest setup for stamsorc. Most of your dsp comes from the weapon skill line. Having to use a certain weapon just to be able to run a 2h/bow setup without dizzy is just lame imo. Dizzy swing is a better spammable than cleave, but it is too unreliable compared to surprise attack and biting jabs. I can cancel a light attack and surprise attack combo with dodge roll easily whereas dizzy swing needs to be channeled and good players can just dodge it, block it, or run through me. I'm specifically asking for a class spammable because it opens up more build options.

SA is not so reliable (in fact, Ransack is way better for weaving and any NB can use WB out of nowhere). Jabs hitting the air are so common it hurts and compared to Rapids they give little back (Rapids have certain execute associated, not to mention the dmg increase on stunned enemies).

Stam class spammables are way overrated and in turn give little back. On the contrary, Stam weapon abilities are great and have way better passives associated

I beg to differ. Surprise attack is an amazing dps. I can do the light attack + surprise attack + bash combo just as fast as light attack + ransack + bash. Landing jabs won't be a problem if you use speed pots. Your jabs hitting the air is probably because your target is out of range or you are snared. Jabs slow for 70%, can proc burning light for more damage, and does aoe which is amazing in group play. You don't see stamplars using rapid strikes over jabs because jabs outperform it in both single target dps and aoe dps.

But the passives associated to SA are almost useless. You can proc them just by using cloak, while bashing with ransack does significantly moar dmg.

The only reason to run SA is when paired with DW. When paired with 2H or S/B is quite redundant.

Regarding Jabs, most of the stamplars I see use it because it is an AoE so dodgeroll doesn't work. Neither burning light, nor the snare are game turner passives compared to the dmg increase on low health enemies or the bonus on stunned targets. Even more, if you use toppling charge as gap closer on a DW stamplar, not using rapids could be a mistake (not to mention that Rapids costs less stam and gives one extra chance to proc TBaB bleed)

With that, I don't want to say stam class spamables are bad, in turn I try to let you see that Class and Weapon spammables are in the very same level. When used properly can be painful as hell.

By the way, as a stamblade, what execute do you prefer, executioner or killer's blade?

Lol just stop please. Puncture better than SA?
And I've yet to see a stamplar running rapids. Jabs are way better.

I never said it is better, I said that they are in the same level. You can go with SA on a S/B NB, but you will be missing a lot buffs and debuffs if using cloak, so, why choosing SA in that case?

Ocelot9x · December 2017

Xvorg wrote: »

Ocelot9x wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Speed_Kills wrote: »

No, Stam sorc doesn't need a spammable. Yes, it would make it super easy to build a successful Stam sorc build and would allow you to run less weapon skills. However, a spammable is available in every weapon skill line available to Stam sorc. If you want to run 2h/bow without dizzy swing, grab a maelstrom or master 2h-- problem solved. Dual wield offers rapid strikes, flying blade, and steelnado (lots of choices). Sword and board also offers 2 great options: puncture and heroic slash, and also provides a cc/defile in reverb (if you don't use reverb you can also get a pretty nasty spammable from shield bash). I also have not put on heavy this entire patch, medium is where it's at.

You're using duelwield/2h which is arguably the strongest setup for stamsorc. Most of your dsp comes from the weapon skill line. Having to use a certain weapon just to be able to run a 2h/bow setup without dizzy is just lame imo. Dizzy swing is a better spammable than cleave, but it is too unreliable compared to surprise attack and biting jabs. I can cancel a light attack and surprise attack combo with dodge roll easily whereas dizzy swing needs to be channeled and good players can just dodge it, block it, or run through me. I'm specifically asking for a class spammable because it opens up more build options.

SA is not so reliable (in fact, Ransack is way better for weaving and any NB can use WB out of nowhere). Jabs hitting the air are so common it hurts and compared to Rapids they give little back (Rapids have certain execute associated, not to mention the dmg increase on stunned enemies).

Stam class spammables are way overrated and in turn give little back. On the contrary, Stam weapon abilities are great and have way better passives associated

I beg to differ. Surprise attack is an amazing dps. I can do the light attack + surprise attack + bash combo just as fast as light attack + ransack + bash. Landing jabs won't be a problem if you use speed pots. Your jabs hitting the air is probably because your target is out of range or you are snared. Jabs slow for 70%, can proc burning light for more damage, and does aoe which is amazing in group play. You don't see stamplars using rapid strikes over jabs because jabs outperform it in both single target dps and aoe dps.

But the passives associated to SA are almost useless. You can proc them just by using cloak, while bashing with ransack does significantly moar dmg.

The only reason to run SA is when paired with DW. When paired with 2H or S/B is quite redundant.

Regarding Jabs, most of the stamplars I see use it because it is an AoE so dodgeroll doesn't work. Neither burning light, nor the snare are game turner passives compared to the dmg increase on low health enemies or the bonus on stunned targets. Even more, if you use toppling charge as gap closer on a DW stamplar, not using rapids could be a mistake (not to mention that Rapids costs less stam and gives one extra chance to proc TBaB bleed)

With that, I don't want to say stam class spamables are bad, in turn I try to let you see that Class and Weapon spammables are in the very same level. When used properly can be painful as hell.

By the way, as a stamblade, what execute do you prefer, executioner or killer's blade?

Lol just stop please. Puncture better than SA?
And I've yet to see a stamplar running rapids. Jabs are way better.

I never said it is better, I said that they are in the same level. You can go with SA on a S/B NB, but you will be missing a lot buffs and debuffs if using cloak, so, why choosing SA in that case?

I still don't get it,pardon.
Sa more damage,major fracture,major ward resolve
Puncture lower damage,major fracture,minor resolve
??

Morvane · December 2017

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

I would say stamsorc has great variety, even when lacking a class spammable they have everything else.
So a built in spammable is not neccessary at all. I don't wanna go back to the stamsorc FOTM days,
they are literally stamDk version 2.0 with better passives and more cheese.

For stamDk I would love a stamina poison whip. but I doubt It would change anything. In the end of the day, as long as I'm slow as a turtle and wings are poop, why would I ever wanna drop SnB?

"EVERYTHING ELSE" COST A large amount of mana
LARGE
u cant spam this, u talking about subject you dont know good

Ragnarock41 · December 2017

can we remove molten armaments from the game, and maybe nerf claws, so that people will stop complaining about stamDk pve.
I seriously dislike the situation.

Its not even about having a spammable anymore, every single time people bring the ''stamDk is good in pve, so let it suffer pvp'' card out.

Morvane wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

I would say stamsorc has great variety, even when lacking a class spammable they have everything else.
So a built in spammable is not neccessary at all. I don't wanna go back to the stamsorc FOTM days,
they are literally stamDk version 2.0 with better passives and more cheese.

For stamDk I would love a stamina poison whip. but I doubt It would change anything. In the end of the day, as long as I'm slow as a turtle and wings are poop, why would I ever wanna drop SnB?

"EVERYTHING ELSE" COST A large amount of mana
LARGE
u cant spam this, u talking about subject you dont know good

I know stamsorc well enough to know that the only thing keeping them balanced is having no strong spammable.
Do you think sorc has high costs? GO friggen play Dk for a single day, I dare you.

Morvane · December 2017

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

can we remove molten armaments from the game, and maybe nerf claws, so that people will stop complaining about stamDk pve.
I seriously dislike the situation.

Its not even about having a spammable anymore, every single time people bring the ''stamDk is good in pve, so let it suffer pvp'' card out.

Morvane wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

I would say stamsorc has great variety, even when lacking a class spammable they have everything else.
So a built in spammable is not neccessary at all. I don't wanna go back to the stamsorc FOTM days,
they are literally stamDk version 2.0 with better passives and more cheese.

For stamDk I would love a stamina poison whip. but I doubt It would change anything. In the end of the day, as long as I'm slow as a turtle and wings are poop, why would I ever wanna drop SnB?

"EVERYTHING ELSE" COST A large amount of mana
LARGE
u cant spam this, u talking about subject you dont know good

I know stamsorc well enough to know that the only thing keeping them balanced is having no strong spammable.
Do you think sorc has high costs? GO friggen play Dk for a single day, I dare you.

7.5k mana cost heal from Pet (clanny, phys morph!!!) = 2 heals when 3 stat food+Shacklebreaker
Streak cost - no comments.
Surdge, Encase - 2 cast = mana over but u still need heal or surdge or smt else

So not enough mana really. If these morphs were stamina based the situation may be balanced
They have everything else but NOT FOR STAMINA
U told they have anything else? So stamsorc have class execute or heal based on stam? Spell reflect? Okaaaaaay....

P.S okaaay means u showed that u dont understand rly much in stamsorc at all...

GeorgeBlack · December 2017

How the hell is stamsorc and stamDK on the same PvP discussion?
There is a massive gap of viability between the 2 classes.
I WISH my stamDK class skills/passives were as usefull as stamsorc tools, and I wish I could play a stamDK other than the same old SnB, 2h ww hide, 7th, bloodspawn.
I wish my survivability mechanics were not holding block on a meatbag build, but heal through damage with all my weapons

Btw... the whole trial ladderboard competition has crippled any balancing attempt on this game. I hope you are all proud for the game you play.

"Oh no you can't join our raid with the class you like to play, because you don't get 65k dps"

........

As if you need that much dps to beat PvE.
Eso is all about digits (buildmaking, PvE, pvp) and not at all about action, reaction.

Ragnarock41 · December 2017

Morvane wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

can we remove molten armaments from the game, and maybe nerf claws, so that people will stop complaining about stamDk pve.
I seriously dislike the situation.

Its not even about having a spammable anymore, every single time people bring the ''stamDk is good in pve, so let it suffer pvp'' card out.

Morvane wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

I would say stamsorc has great variety, even when lacking a class spammable they have everything else.
So a built in spammable is not neccessary at all. I don't wanna go back to the stamsorc FOTM days,
they are literally stamDk version 2.0 with better passives and more cheese.

For stamDk I would love a stamina poison whip. but I doubt It would change anything. In the end of the day, as long as I'm slow as a turtle and wings are poop, why would I ever wanna drop SnB?

"EVERYTHING ELSE" COST A large amount of mana
LARGE
u cant spam this, u talking about subject you dont know good

I know stamsorc well enough to know that the only thing keeping them balanced is having no strong spammable.
Do you think sorc has high costs? GO friggen play Dk for a single day, I dare you.

7.5k mana cost heal from Pet (clanny, phys morph!!!) = 2 heals when 3 stat food+Shacklebreaker
Streak cost - no comments.
Surdge, Encase - 2 cast = mana over but u still need heal or surdge or smt else

So not enough mana really. If these morphs were stamina based the situation may be balanced
They have everything else but NOT FOR STAMINA
U told they have anything else? So stamsorc have class execute or heal based on stam? Spell reflect? Okaaaaaay....

Cut your crying out.
stamsorc has some of the strongest utility tools .
Streak,Crit surge, hurricane,dark deal,bound armaments, negate, combined with best passives for dps in the entire game.

You get heals from critting people and you complain about having no heals.. are you for real?

StaticWave · December 2017

Xvorg wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Speed_Kills wrote: »

No, Stam sorc doesn't need a spammable. Yes, it would make it super easy to build a successful Stam sorc build and would allow you to run less weapon skills. However, a spammable is available in every weapon skill line available to Stam sorc. If you want to run 2h/bow without dizzy swing, grab a maelstrom or master 2h-- problem solved. Dual wield offers rapid strikes, flying blade, and steelnado (lots of choices). Sword and board also offers 2 great options: puncture and heroic slash, and also provides a cc/defile in reverb (if you don't use reverb you can also get a pretty nasty spammable from shield bash). I also have not put on heavy this entire patch, medium is where it's at.

You're using duelwield/2h which is arguably the strongest setup for stamsorc. Most of your dsp comes from the weapon skill line. Having to use a certain weapon just to be able to run a 2h/bow setup without dizzy is just lame imo. Dizzy swing is a better spammable than cleave, but it is too unreliable compared to surprise attack and biting jabs. I can cancel a light attack and surprise attack combo with dodge roll easily whereas dizzy swing needs to be channeled and good players can just dodge it, block it, or run through me. I'm specifically asking for a class spammable because it opens up more build options.

SA is not so reliable (in fact, Ransack is way better for weaving and any NB can use WB out of nowhere). Jabs hitting the air are so common it hurts and compared to Rapids they give little back (Rapids have certain execute associated, not to mention the dmg increase on stunned enemies).

Stam class spammables are way overrated and in turn give little back. On the contrary, Stam weapon abilities are great and have way better passives associated

I beg to differ. Surprise attack is an amazing dps. I can do the light attack + surprise attack + bash combo just as fast as light attack + ransack + bash. Landing jabs won't be a problem if you use speed pots. Your jabs hitting the air is probably because your target is out of range or you are snared. Jabs slow for 70%, can proc burning light for more damage, and does aoe which is amazing in group play. You don't see stamplars using rapid strikes over jabs because jabs outperform it in both single target dps and aoe dps.

But the passives associated to SA are almost useless. You can proc them just by using cloak, while bashing with ransack does significantly moar dmg.

The only reason to run SA is when paired with DW. When paired with 2H or S/B is quite redundant.

Regarding Jabs, most of the stamplars I see use it because it is an AoE so dodgeroll doesn't work. Neither burning light, nor the snare are game turner passives compared to the dmg increase on low health enemies or the bonus on stunned targets. Even more, if you use toppling charge as gap closer on a DW stamplar, not using rapids could be a mistake (not to mention that Rapids costs less stam and gives one extra chance to proc TBaB bleed)

With that, I don't want to say stam class spamables are bad, in turn I try to let you see that Class and Weapon spammables are in the very same level. When used properly can be painful as hell.

By the way, as a stamblade, what execute do you prefer, executioner or killer's blade?

Except the off balance part of SA is not useless. That part of the skill works really well with armor of truth set and the tactician cp passive. It is also a good stun when paired with cloak. It also procs major ward and major resolve whenever you attack someone. Slotting SA also gives you more hp because of the class passive. Also, there is no reason to run dizzy swing on a 2h night blade because surprise attack outperforms it. I've crit people for 7k with surprise attack. With a well timed light attack, SA, bash combo right after an incap, i can 1 shot many people.

You don't really need the increased damage on low health enemies from rapidstrike because most stamplars use power of the light which can act as an execute. dw/2h stamplars are very strong because they can stack 3 bleeds and db dot while power of the light is up, therefore dealing an absurd amount of damage.

I prefer executioner for 2h, and killer's blade for dw

Speed_Kills · December 2017

@staticwave so this isn't a "Stam sorc and Stam dk needs a spammable" thread. It's a "dizzy swing sucks and I want to run 2h" thread. 2h builds can be successful without dizzy now that rune prison got changed.