Best armor Traits for a high-CP Ebon/Alkosh tank

Amadis001 · November 2017

I have 650 CP and have been tanking in Hist Bark/Werewolf since almost day 1. For reasons I can’t explain, my Hist Bark set is all in divines. I want to try something new and have collected s full set of Ebon, in a random mixture of 2 sturdy 1 infused 1 reinforced 1 divines. Not too shabby for random drops, but now I’m trying to figure out how to optimize it.

My first thought is that divines is useless here and that I need more sturdy. Running out of stam for blocking really sucks in vet dungeons. I have 16% block cost reduction from 40 CP Points in Shadow Ward and that certainly helps a lot. But I still find myself unable to hold block sometimes for long enough when it’s really needed — not often, but too often anyway, since a dead tank is a useless tank.

So, my tanky friends, what are your trait recommendations for me?

code65536 · November 2017

Your jewelry is all block cost reduction, right? Because that's the biggest and most important source. The rest is just fiddling around in the margins.

All-sturdy is probably best, though I personally run infused on head/chest/legs and sturdy on the rest, and I haven't noticed any problems.

Liofa · November 2017

I am running full Sturdy . There is only 1 reason . If you care less about your own sustain , you can care more about your group .

Imperial , all armor enchanted with tri-stat , shield is enchanted with Health . All attribute points into Health .

I have 100 Shadow Ward , 3 Shield-Play enchants , no Absorb Magic , tri-stat food .

With 8 Sturdy and Warhorn applied I have these stats :

Health : 44634
Magicka : 17983
Stamina : 23410

Block Cost : 95

Igneous Shield covers 990 / 95 = 10.4 blocks per cast

If I had 4 Infused (big pieces) , 4 Sturdy ; my stats would be :

Health : 45421
Magicka : 18329
Stamina : 23787

Block Cost : 261

Igneous Shield covers 990 / 261 = 3.8 blocks per cast

Difference :

787 Health
346 Magicka
377 Stamina

166 Block Cost

You have to cast almost 3 times more Igneous Shields to cover your Stamina Drain for blocking .

You can run whatever you are comfortable with but I think the optimal choice is pretty obvious here . Hope this helps

Used ESO Build Editor for this comment btw , very helpful tool for theorycrafting ^^

code65536 · November 2017

Yes, all-sturdy is best. I should've clarified in my post that I run the infused because of inertia--that was the gear that I had, and I didn't re-farm (or re-trait).

That having been said, I haven't noticed resource issues despite running a non-optimal setup. That's because in most situations, the rate of incoming hits is low enough and other sources of stamina drain (like puncturing or low slashing) are frequent enough that the difference becomes overshadowed.

Nevertheless, all-sturdy is what you should try to aim for. Just don't worry too much if it's too expensive or impractical to get.

Amadis001 · November 2017

code65536 wrote: »

Your jewelry is all block cost reduction, right? Because that's the biggest and most important source. The rest is just fiddling around in the margins.

All-sturdy is probably best, though I personally run infused on head/chest/legs and sturdy on the rest, and I haven't noticed any problems.

Uh, no. I’ve got stam regen glyphs on my jewelry since Homestead. I know that you don’t regenerate stamina while blocking, but I’ve always thought that I need the regen I get when I’m not blocking. I guess I’ll switch it up. Thanks for the good advice.

Amadis001 · November 2017

Liofa wrote: »

I am running full Sturdy . There is only 1 reason . If you care less about your own sustain , you can care more about your group .

Block Cost : 95

Igneous Shield covers 990 / 95 = 10.4 blocks per cast

Used ESO Build Editor for this comment btw , very helpful tool for theorycrafting ^^

Thanks! I assume you only know the block cost from the build editor? And can you explain that calculation? What do you mean that IS “covers” so many blocks per cast? And where does the 990 come from?

Maura_Neysa · November 2017

Amadis001 wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

Your jewelry is all block cost reduction, right? Because that's the biggest and most important source. The rest is just fiddling around in the margins.

All-sturdy is probably best, though I personally run infused on head/chest/legs and sturdy on the rest, and I haven't noticed any problems.

Uh, no. I’ve got stam regen glyphs on my jewelry since Homestead. I know that you don’t regenerate stamina while blocking, but I’ve always thought that I need the regen I get when I’m not blocking. I guess I’ll switch it up. Thanks for the good advice.

Order of Block Cost reductions (My Tank for my Altmer Warden Tank - Numbers from UESP Build Editor)
Base
Item.Sturdy 20 % = 1436
CP.BlockCost -21 % = 1187
Set.BlockCost 0 % = 1187
Skill.BlockCost -36 % = 873
Buff.BlockCost 0 = 873
Item.BlockCost -609 = 264 (effectivly 70% here) Far less if applied earlier
Skill2.BlockCost 0 % = 264
Block Cost Final = 264

Maura_Neysa · November 2017

Amadis001 wrote: »

Liofa wrote: »

I am running full Sturdy . There is only 1 reason . If you care less about your own sustain , you can care more about your group .

Block Cost : 95

Igneous Shield covers 990 / 95 = 10.4 blocks per cast

Used ESO Build Editor for this comment btw , very helpful tool for theorycrafting ^^

Thanks! I assume you only know the block cost from the build editor? And can you explain that calculation? What do you mean that IS “covers” so many blocks per cast? And where does the 990 come from?

Earthen Heart Passive, when you cast a skill you gain 990 Stamina. 1 cast of Igneous Shield gives you enough stamina to block 10.4 times at a block cost of 95.

See the post above this one for the calculation

Maura_Neysa · November 2017

To answer the OP. It isn't about what you should run, its about the results.
My tank numbers (Warden Altmer) in Ebon and Alkosh (Big pieces Infused, small pieces Sturdy all Prismatic (Pre Morrowind Meta))
Health

37698... (40714 with Minor Toughness)
Magicka

14915...
Stamina

18746
Health Recovery

216... (vampire)
Magicka Recovery --- 1801... (High enough to keep all your buffs up and Stam return for DKs
Stamina Recovery ---- 750 (Netch gives me 149/sec through block + What I get from Natures Gift passive)
Spell Resistance

33144 (50%) (Hard cap is 33150)
Physical Resistance - 33144 (50%) (Hard cap 33150)
Bash Cost

480...
Block Cost

264...
Block Mitigation

60%...
Dodge Roll Cost

3595...
Break Free Cost

4590...

Between The Netch and Nature's gift and potions, I don't have stamina issues, Its actually magicka I'm usually out of. Every skill I have except Pierce Armor is Magicka based. My priorities are hitting health and resistance, with enough magicka regen

paulsimonps · November 2017

+1 on All Sturdy here as a Ebon/Alkosh Tank or Ebon/Torugs Tank. The sustain is really amazing and have used 8 Sturdy pieces since Sturdy came out. The others explain very well why Sturdy is as good as it is.

SquareSausage · November 2017

I used to be Imperial but switched to Redguard as took my tank to PvP land and the sustain on an Imperial was lets say, not the best.

So in that light, my tank is now Redguard, he uses infused big pieces and sturdy on small. The infused Big pieces helps somewhat with the loss of health from the race change and Adrenaline Rush is a very nice additional stam regen whilst blocking.

My question for the pro's is, that you seem to advocate all sturdy and possibly full block cost reduction jewels, but is that small a block cost really needed? Ive never needed that small a block cost even on axes on vAA. Once had 7 axes (pre morrowind block cost nerf though). I usually swap between 1 or 2 block cost reduction with 1 or 2 Magicka recovery combined with witchmothers potent brew and attronach mundus. The Igneous shields, Adrenaline Rush, Constitution, Battle Roar and synergies is already way more than I need to sustain stamina without getting into a predicament.

Maura_Neysa · November 2017

SquareSausage wrote: »

I used to be Imperial but switched to Redguard as took my tank to PvP land and the sustain on an Imperial was lets say, not the best.

So in that light, my tank is now Redguard, he uses infused big pieces and sturdy on small. The infused Big pieces helps somewhat with the loss of health from the race change and Adrenaline Rush is a very nice additional stam regen whilst blocking.

My question for the pro's is, that you seem to advocate all sturdy and possibly full block cost reduction jewels, but is that small a block cost really needed? Ive never needed that small a block cost even on axes on vAA. Once had 7 axes (pre morrowind block cost nerf though). I usually swap between 1 or 2 block cost reduction with 1 or 2 Magicka recovery combined with witchmothers potent brew and attronach mundus. The Igneous shields, Adrenaline Rush, Constitution, Battle Roar and synergies is already way more than I need to sustain stamina without getting into a predicament.

From my post above.... Calculation done in Ebon/Alkosh/Lord Warden. Heavy head, chest, legs. Light shoulders, medium waist and the rest all sturdy.

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

Order of Block Cost reductions (My Tank for my Altmer Warden Tank - Numbers from UESP Build Editor)
Base
Item.Sturdy 20 % = 1436
CP.BlockCost -21 % = 1187
Set.BlockCost 0 % = 1187
Skill.BlockCost -36 % = 873
Buff.BlockCost 0 = 873
Item.BlockCost -609 = 264 (effectivly 70% here) Far less if applied earlier
Skill2.BlockCost 0 % = 264
Block Cost Final = 264

Because of when that tiny block cost is applied, its roughly a 70% reduction. I would say you answered your own question, you had to switch races from BiS/2ndBiS for sustain??? I PvP and PvE tank on a Warden Altmer and have no sustain issues (Unless you count 10+ players on me) I'm also not claiming to by top end tank, but I do tank about 90% of the time I'm on, including solo PvE content

That being said, its about about getting to goal numbers, not what exactly you wear. My best sustain/survivablity comes from Plague and Desert Rose, neither of which brings any group utility, and that set up will put my max magicka over by stamina (not ideal with shards/orbs)

SquareSausage · November 2017

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

SquareSausage wrote: »

I used to be Imperial but switched to Redguard as took my tank to PvP land and the sustain on an Imperial was lets say, not the best.

So in that light, my tank is now Redguard, he uses infused big pieces and sturdy on small. The infused Big pieces helps somewhat with the loss of health from the race change and Adrenaline Rush is a very nice additional stam regen whilst blocking.

My question for the pro's is, that you seem to advocate all sturdy and possibly full block cost reduction jewels, but is that small a block cost really needed? Ive never needed that small a block cost even on axes on vAA. Once had 7 axes (pre morrowind block cost nerf though). I usually swap between 1 or 2 block cost reduction with 1 or 2 Magicka recovery combined with witchmothers potent brew and attronach mundus. The Igneous shields, Adrenaline Rush, Constitution, Battle Roar and synergies is already way more than I need to sustain stamina without getting into a predicament.

From my post above.... Calculation done in Ebon/Alkosh/Lord Warden. Heavy head, chest, legs. Light shoulders, medium waist and the rest all sturdy.

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

Order of Block Cost reductions (My Tank for my Altmer Warden Tank - Numbers from UESP Build Editor)
Base
Item.Sturdy 20 % = 1436
CP.BlockCost -21 % = 1187
Set.BlockCost 0 % = 1187
Skill.BlockCost -36 % = 873
Buff.BlockCost 0 = 873
Item.BlockCost -609 = 264 (effectivly 70% here) Far less if applied earlier
Skill2.BlockCost 0 % = 264
Block Cost Final = 264

Because of when that tiny block cost is applied, its roughly a 70% reduction. I would say you answered your own question, you had to switch races from BiS/2ndBiS for sustain??? I PvP and PvE tank on a Warden Altmer and have no sustain issues (Unless you count 10+ players on me) I'm also not claiming to by top end tank, but I do tank about 90% of the time I'm on, including solo PvE content

That being said, its about about getting to goal numbers, not what exactly you wear. My best sustain/survivablity comes from Plague and Desert Rose, neither of which brings any group utility, and that set up will put my max magicka over by stamina (not ideal with shards/orbs)

Ah sorry, I should have made myself more clear, my Tank isnt a tank in PVP, hes tanky, but not a tank. So not always blocking, much rather offensive style than defense.

I was really meaning in PVE, having the minimal block cost is it necessary?

edit: typo

Maura_Neysa · November 2017

SquareSausage wrote: »

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

SquareSausage wrote: »

I used to be Imperial but switched to Redguard as took my tank to PvP land and the sustain on an Imperial was lets say, not the best.

So in that light, my tank is now Redguard, he uses infused big pieces and sturdy on small. The infused Big pieces helps somewhat with the loss of health from the race change and Adrenaline Rush is a very nice additional stam regen whilst blocking.

My question for the pro's is, that you seem to advocate all sturdy and possibly full block cost reduction jewels, but is that small a block cost really needed? Ive never needed that small a block cost even on axes on vAA. Once had 7 axes (pre morrowind block cost nerf though). I usually swap between 1 or 2 block cost reduction with 1 or 2 Magicka recovery combined with witchmothers potent brew and attronach mundus. The Igneous shields, Adrenaline Rush, Constitution, Battle Roar and synergies is already way more than I need to sustain stamina without getting into a predicament.

From my post above.... Calculation done in Ebon/Alkosh/Lord Warden. Heavy head, chest, legs. Light shoulders, medium waist and the rest all sturdy.

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

Order of Block Cost reductions (My Tank for my Altmer Warden Tank - Numbers from UESP Build Editor)
Base
Item.Sturdy 20 % = 1436
CP.BlockCost -21 % = 1187
Set.BlockCost 0 % = 1187
Skill.BlockCost -36 % = 873
Buff.BlockCost 0 = 873
Item.BlockCost -609 = 264 (effectivly 70% here) Far less if applied earlier
Skill2.BlockCost 0 % = 264
Block Cost Final = 264

Because of when that tiny block cost is applied, its roughly a 70% reduction. I would say you answered your own question, you had to switch races from BiS/2ndBiS for sustain??? I PvP and PvE tank on a Warden Altmer and have no sustain issues (Unless you count 10+ players on me) I'm also not claiming to by top end tank, but I do tank about 90% of the time I'm on, including solo PvE content

That being said, its about about getting to goal numbers, not what exactly you wear. My best sustain/survivablity comes from Plague and Desert Rose, neither of which brings any group utility, and that set up will put my max magicka over by stamina (not ideal with shards/orbs)

Ah sorry, I should have made myself more clear, my Tank isnt a tank in PVP, hes tanky, but not a tank. So not always blocking, much rather offensive style than defense.

I was really meaning in PVE, having the minimal block cost is it necessary?

edit: typo

1 v X in Crydiil without using line of sight or kills. That’s what PvE tanking is like

https://youtu.be/Zd1Kj9Wf_0E. Me Tanking in Imperal City players and Nunatok (though I’m using healing to pull agro)
Big impen, small sturdy

https://youtu.be/nnhYhY9-TpA My Vet trialstank test. Solo vSO mob pull ( extemly low on stamina pretty much the whole time. I’m also not running any Sturdy armor pieces all infused, so...

Runefang · November 2017

Liofa wrote: »

I am running full Sturdy . There is only 1 reason . If you care less about your own sustain , you can care more about your group .

Imperial , all armor enchanted with tri-stat , shield is enchanted with Health . All attribute points into Health .

I have 100 Shadow Ward , 3 Shield-Play enchants , no Absorb Magic , tri-stat food .

With 8 Sturdy and Warhorn applied I have these stats :

Health : 44634
Magicka : 17983
Stamina : 23410

Block Cost : 95

Igneous Shield covers 990 / 95 = 10.4 blocks per cast

If I had 4 Infused (big pieces) , 4 Sturdy ; my stats would be :

Health : 45421
Magicka : 18329
Stamina : 23787

Block Cost : 261

Igneous Shield covers 990 / 261 = 3.8 blocks per cast

Difference :

787 Health
346 Magicka
377 Stamina

166 Block Cost

You have to cast almost 3 times more Igneous Shields to cover your Stamina Drain for blocking .

You can run whatever you are comfortable with but I think the optimal choice is pretty obvious here . Hope this helps

Used ESO Build Editor for this comment btw , very helpful tool for theorycrafting ^^

Does 4 sturdy really make that big a difference? I know it's what the editor says but it's that the reality?

Maura_Neysa · November 2017

Runefang wrote: »

Liofa wrote: »

I am running full Sturdy . There is only 1 reason . If you care less about your own sustain , you can care more about your group .

Imperial , all armor enchanted with tri-stat , shield is enchanted with Health . All attribute points into Health .

I have 100 Shadow Ward , 3 Shield-Play enchants , no Absorb Magic , tri-stat food .

With 8 Sturdy and Warhorn applied I have these stats :

Health : 44634
Magicka : 17983
Stamina : 23410

Block Cost : 95

Igneous Shield covers 990 / 95 = 10.4 blocks per cast

If I had 4 Infused (big pieces) , 4 Sturdy ; my stats would be :

Health : 45421
Magicka : 18329
Stamina : 23787

Block Cost : 261

Igneous Shield covers 990 / 261 = 3.8 blocks per cast

Difference :

787 Health
346 Magicka
377 Stamina

166 Block Cost

You have to cast almost 3 times more Igneous Shields to cover your Stamina Drain for blocking .

You can run whatever you are comfortable with but I think the optimal choice is pretty obvious here . Hope this helps

Used ESO Build Editor for this comment btw , very helpful tool for theorycrafting ^^

Does 4 sturdy really make that big a difference? I know it's what the editor says but it's that the reality?

Yes it makes a big difference in fights with constant incoming damage. Against AA axes, not so much, against the SO Serpent poison phase it’s huge. THE meta since Morrowind is all sturdy, pre Morrowind was all small sturdy. In the numbers quoted it’s the difference between 10 blocks and 4, which translates to casting Igneous Shield every 5 seconds verse every 2 seconds. At every 2 seconds you would need a magical recovery upwards of 3000 to maintain.

Or in terms of a Warden it’s the difference that makes the Netch, plus Nature’s Gift passive being enough. The Netch being 148 stamina a second return