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Do you think the Exploit Perma Ban was too harsh? Yes or No?
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Mureel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭WrathOfInnos wrote: »Nobody here has enough information to make that call. Here in America we believe in innocence until proven guilty, most of the forum users seem to have an opposite view.
From Jessica's post, looks like they actually do have proof, and they're going to be looking at more evidence with the possible result of more bans. "Hey I saw so and so do this." = no evidence, possibly innocent. Logs of the gameplay = evidence of not so innocent.As a result, we have permanently banned all players – 34 accounts in all – who used the exploit to complete the kill and earn the special achievement and skin in this way. We will not be considering overturns for these account bans. They are permanent and final.
We are working on a fix for this exploit, but we will not be able to deploy it until Monday at the earliest. We will be watching things closely over the weekend. After we deploy the fix on Monday, we will do another audit of kills for this fight. Be warned: we will permanently ban any additional players who use the exploit over the weekend.
I'm surprised we haven't seen a "I was wrongly banned!" post pop up yet.
Forum bans too maybe?0 -
TequilaFire✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭dwemer_paleologist wrote: »do you know anyone who was banned?
Not personally no; and if I did, our friendship would be done and dusted.
This stuff just doesn’t jibe with me and for me, there’s no justification at all.
And if your wife did it on her account grounds for divorce?
1 -
Elsonso✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Daedric_NB_187 wrote: »Nope. Got what they deserved. Just because ZoS has taken a weak stance before against cheating doesn't mean they should be weak now. A line needed to be drawn. And they chose this instance to draw it. Better to draw one now than to not do it at all. I'm proud they had to courage to do it.
I'm curious to see if this will set a new precedence in the handling of exploits/cheats going forward. It seems like they're taking a hardline stance this time.
Doubt it. ZOS likes to do things with a bang, but they don't have the stamina to maintain this sort of pace. They are sprinters, not long distance runners. That's fine. They don't have to ban every exploiter. They just need to do it publicly enough that people will have to consider the possibility that the exploit they are doing will result in a ban. Right now, ZOS presents the external appearance that they do nothing about botting, cheating, and exploits.
XBox EU/NA:@ElsonsoJannus
PC NA/EU: @Elsonso
PSN NA/EU: @ElsonsoJannus
Total in-game hours: 11321
X/Twitter: ElsonsoJannus2 -
Cadbury✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭WrathOfInnos wrote: »Nobody here has enough information to make that call. Here in America we believe in innocence until proven guilty, most of the forum users seem to have an opposite view.
From Jessica's post, looks like they actually do have proof, and they're going to be looking at more evidence with the possible result of more bans. "Hey I saw so and so do this." = no evidence, possibly innocent. Logs of the gameplay = evidence of not so innocent.As a result, we have permanently banned all players – 34 accounts in all – who used the exploit to complete the kill and earn the special achievement and skin in this way. We will not be considering overturns for these account bans. They are permanent and final.
We are working on a fix for this exploit, but we will not be able to deploy it until Monday at the earliest. We will be watching things closely over the weekend. After we deploy the fix on Monday, we will do another audit of kills for this fight. Be warned: we will permanently ban any additional players who use the exploit over the weekend.
I'm surprised we haven't seen a "I was wrongly banned!" post pop up yet.
Forum bans too maybe?
I was thinking along the lines of someone posting on an alt/throwaway forum account."If a person is truly desirous of something, perhaps being set on fire does not seem so bad."1 -
mlstevens42_ESO✭✭✭First it is hard to believe that they did this unknowingly especially with those selling the runs.
Second why should they get several chances to cheat and exploit before being perma banned.
Some of the things that have been done in the past have seriously damaged the games economy. Which is not good for any one.
There is no challenge in what they were doing. This was a no risk for reward scenario. If you are not actually going to do the challenge then you deserve no reward. Further what fun is it to do it like this the whole purpose is defeated. You did not actually earn it.2 -
Tandor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭dwemer_paleologist wrote: »i voted "No"
However:
i think from now on, people should receive an Email Warning, and then a 1 week ban, 30 day ban and then finally a Permanent ban for offences instead of just "BAM" your'e banned" and persons were not even aware they were cheat or exploiting.
It rather depends on what the offence is. It's pretty difficult for someone to argue that they didn't realise that killing a trial boss from an untouchable position outside of his room was cheating/exploiting. An email warning would have been a laughable way of dealing with such players and would have led to massive criticism here from people who don't believe that ZOS care about bots and other forms of cheating.4 -
JKorr✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭WrathOfInnos wrote: »Nobody here has enough information to make that call. Here in America we believe in innocence until proven guilty, most of the forum users seem to have an opposite view.
From Jessica's post, looks like they actually do have proof, and they're going to be looking at more evidence with the possible result of more bans. "Hey I saw so and so do this." = no evidence, possibly innocent. Logs of the gameplay = evidence of not so innocent.As a result, we have permanently banned all players – 34 accounts in all – who used the exploit to complete the kill and earn the special achievement and skin in this way. We will not be considering overturns for these account bans. They are permanent and final.
We are working on a fix for this exploit, but we will not be able to deploy it until Monday at the earliest. We will be watching things closely over the weekend. After we deploy the fix on Monday, we will do another audit of kills for this fight. Be warned: we will permanently ban any additional players who use the exploit over the weekend.
I'm surprised we haven't seen a "I was wrongly banned!" post pop up yet.
Those will probably show up soon. Or my friend was unjustly banned. I could see "innocent" if someone found the exploit on one run and completed the content. Doing it multiple times and selling runs using the exploit for buyers to get the skin/title/reward, whatever is definitely not innocent.2 -
LadyNalcarya✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No it wasnt.
According to info posted on forums (in those ban-related threads and Gina Bruno's profile comments) those people are avid exploiters, they werent banned by accident and they knew exactly what they were doing.
Actually, the fact that people are so forgiving when it comes to cheaters and exploiters is very toxic for our community. These things are considered to be a bannable offence in any online game, and there are good reasons for that, its not just because evil developers dont want to let people play as they want.
Why is it toxic? Because at this point people abuse all exploits they can find, or even use cheats, just because they know they will get away with it. And this ban wave sends a great message, maybe some people will think twice before they try to glitch a boss or something. It doesnt matter that this exploit might be less impactful that some of the older exploits, like the survey one, this "must find an exploit and abuse it" mentality needs to go.
P.S. It was also kinda smart from marketing perpective: 34 lost accounts isnt much for ZOS, and it still sends a message.
This game has a bad reputation due to cheating/botting/exploits and technical issues, so it makes sense that they would want to fix that.
Edited by LadyNalcarya on November 12, 2017 6:19PMDro-m'Athra Destroyer | Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor | Voice of Reason
PC/EU7 -
Mureel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭TequilaFire wrote: »dwemer_paleologist wrote: »do you know anyone who was banned?
Not personally no; and if I did, our friendship would be done and dusted.
This stuff just doesn’t jibe with me and for me, there’s no justification at all.
And if your wife did it on her account grounds for divorce?
@TequilaFire
My husband, I’m the wife, and to be honest there would be the fight of all Mother Effing Fights (and you don’t know me, but Savage and Epic would not be exaggerations here!)- and I would really be disgusted and I would at the very minimum be taking a long, hard look at who I thought he was.
Part of why I fell in love with him is that he’s not at all judgemental and is always kind (been married 10 years, together 12, 3 kids, at times broke as F, so we’ve been through things) - until someone does something that is nasty or unfair and then he’s DONE. I am also cool with whatever people do til they F other people in so doing.
I am and he is, all for forgiving mistakes. Neither of us however have any tolerance for crap people.
He’s read much of this over my shoulder and he’s disgusted as I am.
He’s also a gamer, and he is also community support for The 9th Age and his part is helping decide what’s fair; so if he did this! Holy. It would make everything he is to me and to his own life, a big, fat, lie.
So not having personally been there yet, I cannot guarantee it, but divorce would definitely cross my mind because he would make me sick at the sight of him. Much the same as infidelity would.
Finally; this kind of thing would be so far from his personality in the first place I’d have to have his head examined for split personality disorder.
So there you go.9 -
OutLaw_Nynx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭This feels like a damn trial of someone that committed some hineous crime in real life.
Will I see this on CourtTV soon?
I know two people banned and they aren’t even making as much noise as this forum is.Edited by OutLaw_Nynx on November 12, 2017 6:26PM1 -
WrathOfInnos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭WrathOfInnos wrote: »Nobody here has enough information to make that call. Here in America we believe in innocence until proven guilty, most of the forum users seem to have an opposite view.
Lol bull. ZOS had enough to *so far* Ban 34 People. That is enough information to make that call. If ZOS knows, that is proven guilty.
If the assumption is that ZoS is all knowing, fair, and correct, then why does this poll even matter? It does seem like this response was much harsher than previous.
All of those assumptions are part of the unknown details that make none of us qualified to comment on the situation. Along with the details of the exploit.
Do we even know if everyone involved was banned? I would think that if somebody discovered it and reported it then they should not be. There is a big difference between testing the game in creative ways vs cheat engine and selling exploit runs for profit.
0 -
OutLaw_Nynx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭WrathOfInnos wrote: »Nobody here has enough information to make that call. Here in America we believe in innocence until proven guilty, most of the forum users seem to have an opposite view.
From Jessica's post, looks like they actually do have proof, and they're going to be looking at more evidence with the possible result of more bans. "Hey I saw so and so do this." = no evidence, possibly innocent. Logs of the gameplay = evidence of not so innocent.As a result, we have permanently banned all players – 34 accounts in all – who used the exploit to complete the kill and earn the special achievement and skin in this way. We will not be considering overturns for these account bans. They are permanent and final.
We are working on a fix for this exploit, but we will not be able to deploy it until Monday at the earliest. We will be watching things closely over the weekend. After we deploy the fix on Monday, we will do another audit of kills for this fight. Be warned: we will permanently ban any additional players who use the exploit over the weekend.
I'm surprised we haven't seen a "I was wrongly banned!" post pop up yet.
@Cadbury if they had accounts here then they got banned as well.
0 -
Cadbury✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭OutLaw_Nynx wrote: »WrathOfInnos wrote: »Nobody here has enough information to make that call. Here in America we believe in innocence until proven guilty, most of the forum users seem to have an opposite view.
From Jessica's post, looks like they actually do have proof, and they're going to be looking at more evidence with the possible result of more bans. "Hey I saw so and so do this." = no evidence, possibly innocent. Logs of the gameplay = evidence of not so innocent.As a result, we have permanently banned all players – 34 accounts in all – who used the exploit to complete the kill and earn the special achievement and skin in this way. We will not be considering overturns for these account bans. They are permanent and final.
We are working on a fix for this exploit, but we will not be able to deploy it until Monday at the earliest. We will be watching things closely over the weekend. After we deploy the fix on Monday, we will do another audit of kills for this fight. Be warned: we will permanently ban any additional players who use the exploit over the weekend.
I'm surprised we haven't seen a "I was wrongly banned!" post pop up yet.
@Cadbury if they had accounts here then they got banned as well.
Huh. Then I guess justice was served
Eh, sorry. Just trying to lighten the mood a bit.Edited by Cadbury on November 12, 2017 7:02PM"If a person is truly desirous of something, perhaps being set on fire does not seem so bad."0 -
Mureel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭OutLaw_Nynx wrote: »This feels like a damn trial of someone that committed some hineous crime.
Will I see this on CourtTV soon?
Dude it’s a poll.
People discussing something that really is a shoddy, nasty thing to do is normal. These people pipped themselves to the post over pixels.
If you ask me, that’s more pathetic than anything.
People - obviously are upset by it and the nehnehneh posts are very few really.
Most people are just seriously unhappy that this happened at all and glad that finally ZOS is coming down hard.1 -
OutLaw_Nynx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭OutLaw_Nynx wrote: »This feels like a damn trial of someone that committed some hineous crime.
Will I see this on CourtTV soon?
Dude it’s a poll.
People discussing something that really is a shoddy, nasty thing to do is normal. These people pipped themselves to the post over pixels.
If you ask me, that’s more pathetic than anything.
People - obviously are upset by it and the nehnehneh posts are very few really.
Most people are just seriously unhappy that this happened at all and glad that finally ZOS is coming down hard.
I think you missed my sarcasm
0 -
Mureel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭WrathOfInnos wrote: »WrathOfInnos wrote: »Nobody here has enough information to make that call. Here in America we believe in innocence until proven guilty, most of the forum users seem to have an opposite view.
Lol bull. ZOS had enough to *so far* Ban 34 People. That is enough information to make that call. If ZOS knows, that is proven guilty.
If the assumption is that ZoS is all knowing, fair, and correct, then why does this poll even matter? It does seem like this response was much harsher than previous.
All of those assumptions are part of the unknown details that make none of us qualified to comment on the situation. Along with the details of the exploit.
Do we even know if everyone involved was banned? I would think that if somebody discovered it and reported it then they should not be. There is a big difference between testing the game in creative ways vs cheat engine and selling exploit runs for profit.
Wow. (Ask any man in a long term relationship if in doubt about what it means when a woman says ‘Wow.’)
Edited to add: ZOS has the logs which will show how much damage in and out; and if it matches to what it should be, how long the fight was and how long it should be, as well as any chat logs during that time frame.
ZOS stated that they banned 34 people and will be examining any clears over this weekend, so yeah we absolutely can discuss it because it’s already happened and after the patch Monday - maybe we will hear even more. That’s the only unknown here.Edited by Mureel on November 12, 2017 6:37PM0 -
TequilaFire✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@Mureel
Well I apologize for getting the gender wrong but I guess my point was if they truly were my friends I also would chastise them for being stupid and getting themselves into the situation over a stupid ugly skin and achievement.
But I would hardly go the route of saying they were no longer my friends over such a trivial issue as a mechanics exploit in a video game.
Life is too short to forget to have a little empathy for people that make mistakes. I am not talking about the ones that were selling carries using the exploit but the ones that went along for the ride and didn't realize the implications of their actions.
These are the people that should have gotten a week ban, revoking of the skins and achievements and a warning that the next time the punishment would be more severe. That is the way most games handle the situation perma ban on first offense is just not right particularly since no outside hacks were used and the game itself provided the means to the exploit.
I know my view is not popular with those out for blood but please stop and remember this is a video game, a hobby an escape from reality populated by all kinds of people with varying ethics.
1 -
Cadbury✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭OutLaw_Nynx wrote: »This feels like a damn trial of someone that committed some hineous crime in real life.
Will I see this on CourtTV soon?
Naw. It'll be on TMZ"If a person is truly desirous of something, perhaps being set on fire does not seem so bad."2 -
Mureel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭OutLaw_Nynx wrote: »OutLaw_Nynx wrote: »This feels like a damn trial of someone that committed some hineous crime.
Will I see this on CourtTV soon?
Dude it’s a poll.
People discussing something that really is a shoddy, nasty thing to do is normal. These people pipped themselves to the post over pixels.
If you ask me, that’s more pathetic than anything.
People - obviously are upset by it and the nehnehneh posts are very few really.
Most people are just seriously unhappy that this happened at all and glad that finally ZOS is coming down hard.
I think you missed my sarcasm
Maybe I have, sorry if so.0 -
Shardan4968✭✭✭✭✭
✭My stance is temporary ban for the first offence and permaban for second. ZOS know about this bug and didn't fix it, which means it's mainly their fault that people are doing this. I don't care about someone's title or skin, they don't affect my gameplay and they don't make real money on it (account selling is other matter). After long temporary ban, some or most of those exploiters will realise how stupid that thing was and won't do it again. And don't call me an exploiter for saying such things, because that would be pathetic.PC/EU2 -
OutLaw_Nynx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭OutLaw_Nynx wrote: »OutLaw_Nynx wrote: »This feels like a damn trial of someone that committed some hineous crime.
Will I see this on CourtTV soon?
Dude it’s a poll.
People discussing something that really is a shoddy, nasty thing to do is normal. These people pipped themselves to the post over pixels.
If you ask me, that’s more pathetic than anything.
People - obviously are upset by it and the nehnehneh posts are very few really.
Most people are just seriously unhappy that this happened at all and glad that finally ZOS is coming down hard.
I think you missed my sarcasm
Maybe I have, sorry if so.
All good. I’m just a little heated that the topic just won’t die. Didn’t mean to lash out on you.0 -
Mureel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭TequilaFire wrote: »@Mureel
Well I apologize for getting the gender wrong but I guess my point was if they truly were my friends I also would chastise them for being stupid and getting themselves into the situation over a stupid ugly skin and achievement.
But I would hardly go the route of saying they were no longer my friends over such a trivial issue as a mechanics exploit in a video game.
Life is too short to forget to have a little empathy for people that make mistakes. I am not talking about the ones that were selling carries using the exploit but the ones that went along for the ride and didn't realize the implications of their actions.
These are the people that should have gotten a week ban, revoking of the skins and achievements and a warning that the next time the punishment would be more severe. That is the way most games handle the situation perma ban on first offense is just not right particularly since no outside hacks were used and the game itself provided the means to the exploit.
I know my view is not popular with those out for blood but please stop and remember this is a video game, a hobby an escape from reality populated by all kinds of people with varying ethics.
That’s you. You didn’t ask me what you would do or think, you asked about what I would.
When it takes up our life/time/effort and money that we earned with our time then the ‘it’s a game’ for being morally or ethically loose just doesn’t apply.
The game is a game, the real people doing this legit, anyone who paid for a clear not knowing that it was a scam, and all the extra work and crap to sift through for ZOS is not a game and it’s just despicable.
Birds of a feather I guess, and I’ve left guilds and unfriended people for less, and I’d do it all again. I’m not spending any moment of my time, in game other otherwise with losers. It’s beneath me. Simple as that.4 -
Nogawd✭✭✭✭✭JasonSilverSpring wrote: »Theres 1000 thread already IGDAF if they get perm banned or setenced to prison tbh
Who actually cares what happened to some insecure elitists who couldnt finish the trial properly?
I care to know what the actual consensus is.
Those who don’t needn’t reply or even read this poll/thread.
A poll will not get you an actual consensus. There is nothing scientific or accurate about a forum poll.
Perhaps google the word consensus.
In short, it means general agreement.
That’s what I’d like to see. The majority of general agreement - whether yes or no.
So what anyway? Such a large segment here are whiny entitled hypocritical brats. No one really cares what they think.0 -
Mureel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭OutLaw_Nynx wrote: »OutLaw_Nynx wrote: »OutLaw_Nynx wrote: »This feels like a damn trial of someone that committed some hineous crime.
Will I see this on CourtTV soon?
Dude it’s a poll.
People discussing something that really is a shoddy, nasty thing to do is normal. These people pipped themselves to the post over pixels.
If you ask me, that’s more pathetic than anything.
People - obviously are upset by it and the nehnehneh posts are very few really.
Most people are just seriously unhappy that this happened at all and glad that finally ZOS is coming down hard.
I think you missed my sarcasm
Maybe I have, sorry if so.
All good. I’m just a little heated that the topic just won’t die. Didn’t mean to lash out on you.
It’s all good, we’re cool and we all don’t have to agree. I personally am just - I don’t know - literally appalled at people having such low opinions of themselves and others - that they would do this then brag about it - for as was said ‘a game’ that they’ve brought it out of the ‘chill it’s a game’ into dude wtf?!
Really it just paints anyone who gets the ach this weekend with a dirty brush and how is that fair?
Edited to add: I am not currently even running this yet, so I have no dogs in this race in particular; I just legit cannot understand how anyone can justify this.Edited by Mureel on November 12, 2017 6:50PM0 -
Mureel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭JasonSilverSpring wrote: »Theres 1000 thread already IGDAF if they get perm banned or setenced to prison tbh
Who actually cares what happened to some insecure elitists who couldnt finish the trial properly?
I care to know what the actual consensus is.
Those who don’t needn’t reply or even read this poll/thread.
A poll will not get you an actual consensus. There is nothing scientific or accurate about a forum poll.
Perhaps google the word consensus.
In short, it means general agreement.
That’s what I’d like to see. The majority of general agreement - whether yes or no.
So what anyway? Such a large segment here are whiny entitled hypocritical brats. No one really cares what they think.
I care.0 -
Elsonso✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭mlstevens42_ESO wrote: »Second why should they get several chances to cheat and exploit before being perma banned.
Generally people should have at least one opportunity to correct their behavior. In the case where ZOS is wrong, they should also have the opportunity to appeal the ban and have ZOS fairly review the situation.
With the current bans, I support the permanent bans for those who orchestrated and coordinated the use of the exploit. I see no reason to expect them to correct their behavior, since they already had that opportunity and did not take it.
That said, ZOS does have the tendency to cast a wide net when they get real public and excited like this. I don't support the idea that Appeals are cut off in this case.I'm surprised we haven't seen a "I was wrongly banned!" post pop up yet.
I find this surprising, as well. I would not be surprised if a couple of the 34 are actively participating in these discussions, though.
XBox EU/NA:@ElsonsoJannus
PC NA/EU: @Elsonso
PSN NA/EU: @ElsonsoJannus
Total in-game hours: 11321
X/Twitter: ElsonsoJannus3 -
sevomd69✭✭✭✭✭
✭They were selling them in zone chat...If not for just the sniping...they should have been permabanned for being so STOOPID...2 -
Mureel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭WrathOfInnos wrote: »Nobody here has enough information to make that call. Here in America we believe in innocence until proven guilty, most of the forum users seem to have an opposite view.
From Jessica's post, looks like they actually do have proof, and they're going to be looking at more evidence with the possible result of more bans. "Hey I saw so and so do this." = no evidence, possibly innocent. Logs of the gameplay = evidence of not so innocent.As a result, we have permanently banned all players – 34 accounts in all – who used the exploit to complete the kill and earn the special achievement and skin in this way. We will not be considering overturns for these account bans. They are permanent and final.
We are working on a fix for this exploit, but we will not be able to deploy it until Monday at the earliest. We will be watching things closely over the weekend. After we deploy the fix on Monday, we will do another audit of kills for this fight. Be warned: we will permanently ban any additional players who use the exploit over the weekend.
I'm surprised we haven't seen a "I was wrongly banned!" post pop up yet.
Forum bans too maybe?
I was thinking along the lines of someone posting on an alt/throwaway forum account.
You need an active account to get a forum invite, so whilst it is possible, I am not sure how that would work. Either way though, nothing is to say friends aren’t posting for them etc.0 -
Cadbury✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭"If a person is truly desirous of something, perhaps being set on fire does not seem so bad."3
