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Pvp werewolf, dk or warden?

devilsTear
devilsTear
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What class would be better suited for a werewolf? Also what sets to use?
Right now I'm trying bloodspawn, shacklebreaker and salvation on my dk but I feel I'm doing it wrong.
  • VaranisArano
    VaranisArano
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    If your aim is to be in werewolf form as much as possible, the Animal Companions passives give Warden a very nice source of Ultimate generations. Stam Wardens can also be very bursty and have access to good self-heals. Stam DKs also get some ultimate regenetation from Earthen Heart passives, can be tanky, and have some DK heals. Both should be able to work just fine, so it might be worth looking at builds online to see if there is advice about tactics for using each class as a werewolf in PVP.

    Your sets are very good for getting you into werewolf form quickly, with the ulti gen from Bloodspawn and reduced cost from salvation. If you feel you are doing less damage than you hoped, You might look at switching out one of your 5 piece sets, probably salvation, for a set that helps your do more damage in both werewolf and non-werewolf form.
  • paulsimonps
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    I know its not any of the 2 you listed but the answer many will give is Sorcerer.
  • Qbiken
    Qbiken
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    I know its not any of the 2 you listed but the answer many will give is Sorcerer.

    To be honest, any class but Warden is good. In my opinion templar is BiS when it comes to WW due to their passives. Sorc looks good on paper but templar outshines them by miles, especially with Pelinial builds.
    Retired werewolf player, currently getting carried by whatever the FOTM is

    Characters:
    EU
    DC - Octius Ciel - Magicka Sorcerer - Breton
    DC - Evelina Septim - Magicka Templar - Breton
    EP - Josephine Tharn - Magicka Templar - Breton
    DC - Zireael the White Flame - Stamina Sorcerer - Bosmer
    EP - Qbi-One-Kenobi -Stamina DK - Argonian
    AD - Anconeus - Magicka Nightblade - High Elf
    EP - Cirilla Élen Riannon - Magica Dragonknight - Dark Elf
    AD - The Cub of Cintra - Stamina Nightblade - Bosmer
    AD - Alinare Larentius - StaminaTemplar - Redguard
    DC - The Alt-Knight - Stamina Dragonknight - Nord
    DC - Féreldir - Magicka Warden - Argonian
    AD - Kuvirá - Stamina Sorcerer - Redguard
    EP - 1vX Material - Stamina Warden - Orc
    EP - Fenrir the Windwalker - Stamina Sorcerer - Redguard
    EP - Q_Q Mancer Stamina Necromancer - Imperial

    NA
    EP - Sister Q - Stamina Sorcerer - Nord

  • paulsimonps
    paulsimonps
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    Qbiken wrote: »
    I know its not any of the 2 you listed but the answer many will give is Sorcerer.

    To be honest, any class but Warden is good. In my opinion templar is BiS when it comes to WW due to their passives. Sorc looks good on paper but templar outshines them by miles, especially with Pelinial builds.

    Hmmm could you elaborate? From what I've seen Sorcs gets far better passives while in WW form, what does templars have?
  • Qbiken
    Qbiken
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    Qbiken wrote: »
    I know its not any of the 2 you listed but the answer many will give is Sorcerer.

    To be honest, any class but Warden is good. In my opinion templar is BiS when it comes to WW due to their passives. Sorc looks good on paper but templar outshines them by miles, especially with Pelinial builds.

    Hmmm could you elaborate? From what I've seen Sorcs gets far better passives while in WW form, what does templars have?

    Templar:
    * Increases Weapon Damage by 6% and Spell Resistance by 2640.
    * Reduces Magicka, Stamina and Ultimate ability costs by 4%
    The extra weapon-damage is in my opinion more superior than the extra physical damage sorcs get from their passive. But it´s more of a preference I think depending on what build you´re using :)

    Many people like to give a + for sorcs when it comes to the reduced ultimate cost, in my opinion reduced ultimate cost is not that good. If you want to play WW, your goal should be to stay WW as much as possible. Once you´ve transformed that passive is "wasted" (since WW can´t gain ultimate in WW-form, otherwise that passive might have been good).

    Implosion looks good on paper for the sorcs, but you´ll have so much burst damage anyway on a WW that you´ll rarely proc it anyway (This comes from own experience with playing WW on a sorc). Sure it´s nice to have some RNG luck with implosion once in a while, but I find it to unreliable to be any useful. The extra weapon damage from templar passive is really useful on Pelinial builds for example.

    This doesn´t mean sorcs are bad for WW, it´s more of a personal preference :)
    Edited by Qbiken on October 29, 2017 2:33PM
    Retired werewolf player, currently getting carried by whatever the FOTM is

    Characters:
    EU
    DC - Octius Ciel - Magicka Sorcerer - Breton
    DC - Evelina Septim - Magicka Templar - Breton
    EP - Josephine Tharn - Magicka Templar - Breton
    DC - Zireael the White Flame - Stamina Sorcerer - Bosmer
    EP - Qbi-One-Kenobi -Stamina DK - Argonian
    AD - Anconeus - Magicka Nightblade - High Elf
    EP - Cirilla Élen Riannon - Magica Dragonknight - Dark Elf
    AD - The Cub of Cintra - Stamina Nightblade - Bosmer
    AD - Alinare Larentius - StaminaTemplar - Redguard
    DC - The Alt-Knight - Stamina Dragonknight - Nord
    DC - Féreldir - Magicka Warden - Argonian
    AD - Kuvirá - Stamina Sorcerer - Redguard
    EP - 1vX Material - Stamina Warden - Orc
    EP - Fenrir the Windwalker - Stamina Sorcerer - Redguard
    EP - Q_Q Mancer Stamina Necromancer - Imperial

    NA
    EP - Sister Q - Stamina Sorcerer - Nord

  • devilsTear
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    Wel a dk and a warden are all the stam toons I have so it's gotta be one of those :smiley:
    I've been playing with the build I posted all day and my damage is just lacking, I have no trouble getting into wolf form even after dropping the salvation set but I can't seem to kill people..
    I'm not certain about shackle either, I might just go the standard bs/7th/ww hide setup and just slap on the ww ulti..
    Are there any good werewolf sets I'm not thinking of?

    *edit* how about bloodspawn, shacklebreaker and 7th legion?
    Edited by devilsTear on October 29, 2017 3:48PM
  • paulsimonps
    paulsimonps
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    Qbiken wrote: »
    Qbiken wrote: »
    I know its not any of the 2 you listed but the answer many will give is Sorcerer.

    To be honest, any class but Warden is good. In my opinion templar is BiS when it comes to WW due to their passives. Sorc looks good on paper but templar outshines them by miles, especially with Pelinial builds.

    Hmmm could you elaborate? From what I've seen Sorcs gets far better passives while in WW form, what does templars have?

    Templar:
    * Increases Weapon Damage by 6% and Spell Resistance by 2640.
    * Reduces Magicka, Stamina and Ultimate ability costs by 4%
    The extra weapon-damage is in my opinion more superior than the extra physical damage sorcs get from their passive. But it´s more of a preference I think depending on what build you´re using :)

    Many people like to give a + for sorcs when it comes to the reduced ultimate cost, in my opinion reduced ultimate cost is not that good. If you want to play WW, your goal should be to stay WW as much as possible. Once you´ve transformed that passive is "wasted" (since WW can´t gain ultimate in WW-form, otherwise that passive might have been good).

    Implosion looks good on paper for the sorcs, but you´ll have so much burst damage anyway on a WW that you´ll rarely proc it anyway (This comes from own experience with playing WW on a sorc). Sure it´s nice to have some RNG luck with implosion once in a while, but I find it to unreliable to be any useful. The extra weapon damage from templar passive is really useful on Pelinial builds for example.

    This doesn´t mean sorcs are bad for WW, it´s more of a personal preference :)

    Yea, so nothing new and "outshines by miles" was a big overstatement. In PvP its not always possible to stay in WW and so the 15% ulticost reduction is really nice. And sorcs have only 1% less cost reduction on stamina and magicka. Their magicka recovery also helps with keeping up the WW heal which still uses magicka. And I would say in most cases 5% physical damage is far more worth it than 6% weapon damage, sure Pelinal is different case but besides that the Physical Damage is the superior. As well while you say Implosion is not all that, with the increased Time to Kill and lots of tankier builds in PvP the Implosion Passive can sway many fights in your favor. So yea, Templars might be better on a Hybrid build, but I would say Sorcs is the preferred outside of that. So again, not "outshined by miles", they are both still fairly close and have their strengths and weaknesses.
  • Qbiken
    Qbiken
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    Qbiken wrote: »
    Qbiken wrote: »
    I know its not any of the 2 you listed but the answer many will give is Sorcerer.

    To be honest, any class but Warden is good. In my opinion templar is BiS when it comes to WW due to their passives. Sorc looks good on paper but templar outshines them by miles, especially with Pelinial builds.

    Hmmm could you elaborate? From what I've seen Sorcs gets far better passives while in WW form, what does templars have?

    Templar:
    * Increases Weapon Damage by 6% and Spell Resistance by 2640.
    * Reduces Magicka, Stamina and Ultimate ability costs by 4%
    The extra weapon-damage is in my opinion more superior than the extra physical damage sorcs get from their passive. But it´s more of a preference I think depending on what build you´re using :)

    Many people like to give a + for sorcs when it comes to the reduced ultimate cost, in my opinion reduced ultimate cost is not that good. If you want to play WW, your goal should be to stay WW as much as possible. Once you´ve transformed that passive is "wasted" (since WW can´t gain ultimate in WW-form, otherwise that passive might have been good).

    Implosion looks good on paper for the sorcs, but you´ll have so much burst damage anyway on a WW that you´ll rarely proc it anyway (This comes from own experience with playing WW on a sorc). Sure it´s nice to have some RNG luck with implosion once in a while, but I find it to unreliable to be any useful. The extra weapon damage from templar passive is really useful on Pelinial builds for example.

    This doesn´t mean sorcs are bad for WW, it´s more of a personal preference :)

    Yea, so nothing new and "outshines by miles" was a big overstatement. In PvP its not always possible to stay in WW and so the 15% ulticost reduction is really nice. And sorcs have only 1% less cost reduction on stamina and magicka. Their magicka recovery also helps with keeping up the WW heal which still uses magicka. And I would say in most cases 5% physical damage is far more worth it than 6% weapon damage, sure Pelinal is different case but besides that the Physical Damage is the superior. As well while you say Implosion is not all that, with the increased Time to Kill and lots of tankier builds in PvP the Implosion Passive can sway many fights in your favor. So yea, Templars might be better on a Hybrid build, but I would say Sorcs is the preferred outside of that. So again, not "outshined by miles", they are both still fairly close and have their strengths and weaknesses.

    Yes it was a big overstatement, wrote it while being "on the run" more or less :P
    Retired werewolf player, currently getting carried by whatever the FOTM is

    Characters:
    EU
    DC - Octius Ciel - Magicka Sorcerer - Breton
    DC - Evelina Septim - Magicka Templar - Breton
    EP - Josephine Tharn - Magicka Templar - Breton
    DC - Zireael the White Flame - Stamina Sorcerer - Bosmer
    EP - Qbi-One-Kenobi -Stamina DK - Argonian
    AD - Anconeus - Magicka Nightblade - High Elf
    EP - Cirilla Élen Riannon - Magica Dragonknight - Dark Elf
    AD - The Cub of Cintra - Stamina Nightblade - Bosmer
    AD - Alinare Larentius - StaminaTemplar - Redguard
    DC - The Alt-Knight - Stamina Dragonknight - Nord
    DC - Féreldir - Magicka Warden - Argonian
    AD - Kuvirá - Stamina Sorcerer - Redguard
    EP - 1vX Material - Stamina Warden - Orc
    EP - Fenrir the Windwalker - Stamina Sorcerer - Redguard
    EP - Q_Q Mancer Stamina Necromancer - Imperial

    NA
    EP - Sister Q - Stamina Sorcerer - Nord

  • Raudgrani
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    There's no point in going Warden for being werewolf. None. No bonuses or passives at all will help you in werewolf form. This "werewarden" build (promoted by ZOS themselves) for example is just stupid, no matter if the build itself is good or not. It would still be better with ANY other class.

    All other classes have some benefits in werwolf form, wardens have none. My favorite is DK, mostly because it's a way to get back into perfect shape when you are being pressed really hard (by Battle Roar). It have saved my life SO many times. And as I'm a lot better at 1v1/1vX in WW form, I have turned like a hundred certain losses into a werwolf corpse feast instead. :-)

    Otherwise, I guess a stamsorc is the best option. And in general, I would agree it's better than DK but it's a matter of taste I guess. Nightblades are crazy too, at least if you do it right. I made a sort of medium armor "skirmisher" werewolf, really high damage but a bit too squishy.
  • Wreuntzylla
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    I have spent a ton of time testing optimal WW builds, and I guess the age of tanks is a good time to disclose all.

    Group of WW's: Sorc. Solo WW: Warden

    How you build differs if you build for being in WW form or build to be viable in or out of WW form, and whether you build solely for being in WW form or for group.

    A sample of the things people should know when building a WW.

    Abilities that give benefits by being slotted due to passives do not transfer.
    Weapon passives do not transfer.
    Weapon traits and enchantments transfer (from the bar showing when you WW).
    Most sets proc in WW form.
    Concussion procs from lightning enchant.
    Bleeds and light attacks are physical damage.
    Bleeds are only mitigated by impenetrable.
    Pack leader pets will interfere with bloodrage passive.
    Pack leader pets proc necropotence.
    The vast majority of sustained DPS on a WW comes from light attack and bleed, almost a 50/50 split.
    Howl of despair increases light attack damage.
    Hircine's rage scales from magicka/magic damage, and has the best scaling of any heal in the game.
    Rousing roar is an AoE buff.
    Bleed dots have a chance to proc sets on every tick if the set proc says "damage" without a limitation.
    Poison procs from WW light attack.
    Call of the pack and feral pounce means almost never falling out of WW form with 2-3 WW's in group.
    WW form survives death.

    WW base dps is high enough that wearing 2 defensive sets is viable. Sets normally considered worthless become overperforming.

    Worthwhile Sets

    Necropotence
    Bloodroot
    Kvatch gladiator
    Molag Kena
    Ravager/Fury/Etc.
    Pellinals
    Pariah/impregnable/riposte (in that order)

    There are others, but that is a good start. Take a look at Jackdaniell's hybrid builds as well.


    Edited by Wreuntzylla on October 30, 2017 8:02PM
  • Wreuntzylla
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    One more class-based point to make is that regardless of class, you can put out 40k+ dps on a WW just buffing and using light attack.

    One more off-topic point is that any dungeon that is not soloable because of a transform (e.g., skelly transform for pirate island last boss) does not work on a werewolf.
  • Waffennacht
    Waffennacht
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    One more class-based point to make is that regardless of class, you can put out 40k+ dps on a WW just buffing and using light attack.

    One more off-topic point is that any dungeon that is not soloable because of a transform (e.g., skelly transform for pirate island last boss) does not work on a werewolf.

    This is actually really really cool. I have always wondered if this works in all dungeons like that
    Gamer tag: ShenronNacht NA Xbox One
    1100+ CP
    Battleground PvP'er
    Shepherd of Rot - Stamina Necromancer BG Archer - No Gank
  • devilsTear
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    I'm thinking of foregoing the idea of ww, it's just a little overwhelming or maybe I'm doing it all wrong I dunno.
    I seem to kill more in human form then when I go wolf, thanks for the feedback all :smile:
  • geonsocal
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    devilsTear wrote: »
    I'm thinking of foregoing the idea of ww, it's just a little overwhelming or maybe I'm doing it all wrong I dunno.
    I seem to kill more in human form then when I go wolf, thanks for the feedback all :smile:

    nooooooooooooo...

    so much fun - pounce and roar, pounce and roar...
    PS4/NA & EU (Cyro & IC): This Must Be The Place...
    Traders Refuge
    The Purple Gang
    PVP: Brotherhood Without Banners
    "I don't have a lot to contribute because mostly I don't really care"
  • cschwingeb14_ESO
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    Automaton is also a great set for WW, because their only non-physical damage is the dot from claws, but direct claws damage is physical.

    And the heal doesn't scale from WD at all, as others have said

    I get to benchmark my blood drinker/automaton/kena build as soon as I get another ring to drop (nothing in 10 runs)
  • Qbiken
    Qbiken
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    Automaton is also a great set for WW, because their only non-physical damage is the dot from claws, but direct claws damage is physical.

    And the heal doesn't scale from WD at all, as others have said

    I get to benchmark my blood drinker/automaton/kena build as soon as I get another ring to drop (nothing in 10 runs)

    With Pelinial I can get the WW heal to heal me for 15k non-crit in Cyrodil and that´s damn good if u ask me xD
    Retired werewolf player, currently getting carried by whatever the FOTM is

    Characters:
    EU
    DC - Octius Ciel - Magicka Sorcerer - Breton
    DC - Evelina Septim - Magicka Templar - Breton
    EP - Josephine Tharn - Magicka Templar - Breton
    DC - Zireael the White Flame - Stamina Sorcerer - Bosmer
    EP - Qbi-One-Kenobi -Stamina DK - Argonian
    AD - Anconeus - Magicka Nightblade - High Elf
    EP - Cirilla Élen Riannon - Magica Dragonknight - Dark Elf
    AD - The Cub of Cintra - Stamina Nightblade - Bosmer
    AD - Alinare Larentius - StaminaTemplar - Redguard
    DC - The Alt-Knight - Stamina Dragonknight - Nord
    DC - Féreldir - Magicka Warden - Argonian
    AD - Kuvirá - Stamina Sorcerer - Redguard
    EP - 1vX Material - Stamina Warden - Orc
    EP - Fenrir the Windwalker - Stamina Sorcerer - Redguard
    EP - Q_Q Mancer Stamina Necromancer - Imperial

    NA
    EP - Sister Q - Stamina Sorcerer - Nord

  • Wreuntzylla
    Wreuntzylla
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    Qbiken wrote: »
    Automaton is also a great set for WW, because their only non-physical damage is the dot from claws, but direct claws damage is physical.

    And the heal doesn't scale from WD at all, as others have said

    I get to benchmark my blood drinker/automaton/kena build as soon as I get another ring to drop (nothing in 10 runs)

    With Pelinial I can get the WW heal to heal me for 15k non-crit in Cyrodil and that´s damn good if u ask me xD

    Yeah, but there are other options to get higher than that without foregoing other benefits.

    Kena with Pellinal and Ravager. It's a bit ridiculous, the heals are .

    Kvatch gladiator literally makes light attacking on a WW an execute. Someone I run with from time to time beat me out in BG DPS a few times running Kvatch, and it's a great set for WW groups.

    If you have a healer, as I often do, my PvP setup is bloodroot, Kena and ravager. It's tough to benchmark PvP DPS, and somehting screwy with target dummies makes it nearly as hard to benchmark with WW - it bugs WW out.

    But for short runs (4-6 seconds) i have topped 40k dps. As long as you stay on target, it should be the same throughout, you only use stam for buffing and pouncing. Don't really need a heal debuff when your dot ticks hit 4-5k in Cyrodiil without crit...


  • cschwingeb14_ESO
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    34k DPS self buffed (weapon damage pots) is what I get on a DPS dummy with blood root/automaton/kena (bad armor traits). Same number for hundigs/automaton/kena (6/7 Divines). Nirn mainland, infused offhand for both, pve setup

    To do a good WW parse on the dummy you either need to attack it down to about 1.2 million health, then wait for combat to end (outline around the dummy goes from red to yellow), or get a buddy to WW and attack with you for the timer bonus
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