So I Finished Grinding Caltrops

Ankael07 · October 2017

Why is Caltrops Locked behind a PvP wall? October 28

So I finished grinding caltrops. October 29

TheRealPotoroo · October 2017

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

TheRealPotoroo wrote: »

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

Honest question. Where would you like to put caltrops instead? I get the idea taking it away from pvp. But where would you put it? Unless you made up a new skills line that could be unlocked by PVP or PVE I don’t see a solution that works.

You also have to looks at the rest of the arguement. If you put this skill into one of the PVE lines it forces pvp players into more PVE. And if you put it on a weapon it limits choices. Both of those options are worse in my mind then having some pvers running around pvp for, as you point out, a fairly short amount of time.

Expand the Undaunted skill line and put Vigor & Caltrops there. Do something nice for PvPers to compensate. Much happiness ensues.

If we are making new skills ‘to do something nice’ for a faction, why don’t they just expand the undaunted skill line and do something nice for pvers? Why move a skill just to have to replace it with it ‘with something nice’. Just give that something nice to pvers. I mean obviously it would be of equal value right? You weren’t suggesting moving the skill that the giving pvpers crap right? So if it is nice just go ahead and give it to pvers and leave caltrops and vigor where it is.

Move it, duplicate it, whatever I don't care as long as it means I never have to go anywhere near PvP ever again.

lailoken · October 2017

tizodd wrote: »

Now, a question to pvp'ers who like it the way it is: why do you even want people like me and other pve'ers in Cyrodiil with you? I was nothing but a weak link the entire time. I had no desire to "git gud" at pvp...I was only there to get an ability and gtfo. I didn't care to learn strategies or lookup pvp builds. Cyrodiil was just a means to an end. I was literally a dps DK with a healing staff and a bow. I understand people tend to have a natural aversion to change, but being against making Caltrops and/or Vigor obtainable via pve seems counterproductive for a pvp'er.

Because by being there, you're a distraction to the opposing force, which enables your teammates to get into better position, either tactically or laying down the hurt on the player grinding you down.

As the others have said, you're cannon fodder. Revel in that role, as I did, when I needed war horn.

makreth · October 2017

this can go both ways OP....remember the undaunted pledges and the passives locked behind PVE. PVPer's have to do that and it takes hell more time than the caltrops trust me...

TequilaFire · October 2017

Ankael07 wrote: »

Why is Caltrops Locked behind a PvP wall? October 28

So I finished grinding caltrops. October 29

Exactly! lol
Got 2 threads out of it bravo.

NyassaV · October 2017

I'll be honest, I'm rather good at PvP but with my new stam warden I have little to no want to even step foot in Cyrodiil XD

tizodd · October 2017

Ankael07 wrote: »

Why is Caltrops Locked behind a PvP wall? October 28

So I finished grinding caltrops. October 29

TequilaFire wrote: »

Ankael07 wrote: »

Why is Caltrops Locked behind a PvP wall? October 28

So I finished grinding caltrops. October 29

Exactly! lol
Got 2 threads out of it bravo.

You're right. That's why I said "Well I'm done grinding out those Alliance Points and if I'm being honest, it didn't take as long as I thought it would. So those of you who pointed that out do have a point."

Malic · October 2017

Look at the whining. Remember when Caltrops was WAY down the alliance line?

ZOS makes this game easier and easier and a lot of you just keep whining. Do you even want to play an MMO or just have everything given to you?

tizodd · October 2017

Malic wrote: »

Look at the whining. Remember when Caltrops was WAY down the alliance line?

ZOS makes this game easier and easier and a lot of you just keep whining. Do you even want to play an MMO or just have everything given to you?

When did anyone whine? By your definition I'm guessing whining is any opinion that differs from yours? Try reading the OP again and then try reading some of the responses from people who actually read the OP and replied intelligently.

kyle.wilson · October 2017

A pver only has to spend a few hours to get what they need out of pvp.
a pvper literally has to spend hundreds of hours grinding pve to get what they need. I.e. the special weapoins, and set gear in dungeons.
When you talk about not fair its way tilted to the pvper over PVEr.

But maybe, just maybe encouraging the content may make some people that play both.

tizodd wrote:

ESO is not a pvp game and I wish people would stop using this flawed argument.

ZOS president was a developer for DAOC. So to say it is not a PVP game is wrong. From the start it was to be an even mix of PVP and PVE, that's why ZOS will not balance the 2 separately.
DAOC is why a lot of non-elder scrolls fans, gave ESO a shot.

Bakkagami · October 2017

Most of us don't care one way or another whether you or people like you are there.

Also, your complaint about going into pvp for a few hours to get a skill that YOU decided you want to use sounds spoiled at best.

Hurbster · October 2017

My god, the salt in this thread stings.

Ghettokid · October 2017

But pvp'ers have to do pve rabble rabble rabble.

elfantasmo · October 2017

tizodd wrote: »

I posted this to my original thread, but decided to make a new thread since people often only read the first post of a thread then jump to respond without reading the rest (first thread has four pages so far so I wouldn't blame you). I'm posting it here because I have questions for pvp'ers that I'm genuinely curious about:

Well I'm done grinding out those Alliance Points and if I'm being honest, it didn't take as long as I thought it would. So those of you who pointed that out do have a point. However; it was still a horrible experience for me as a pve'er and I'm dreading doing it for my nightblade when it's time.

Now, a question to pvp'ers who like it the way it is: why do you even want people like me and other pve'ers in Cyrodiil with you? I was nothing but a weak link the entire time. I had no desire to "git gud" at pvp...I was only there to get an ability and gtfo. I didn't care to learn strategies or lookup pvp builds. Cyrodiil was just a means to an end. I was literally a dps DK with a healing staff and a bow. I understand people tend to have a natural aversion to change, but being against making Caltrops and/or Vigor obtainable via pve seems counterproductive for a pvp'er.

What I'm saying is: if there were no pve'ers in your ranks who are only there to unlock an ability, Cyrodiil would be filled with people with an interest in pvp...people who want to be good at pvp and take it seriously. But because we have to pvp to get the ability, we're there holding you guys back and getting massacred by players who live, drink, and sleep pvp. Yesterday someone kept shouting "DC is filled with pve'ers on the weekend...that's why we're losing". And I kept thinking to myself "well if we didn't have to do this crap to get an ability, Cyrodiil would be all yours...God knows I have no desire to be here". Since populations are locked, you could theoretically end up with 50/50 pve'ers/pvp'ers on you side...meanwhile, people who actually want to pvp are unable to get in because it's already full. I was there for hours taking up a space and I doubt I was the only one.

Wouldn't Cyrodiil be more fun/engaging for pvp'ers if everyone one there had a genuine interest in pvp?

Anyway, I'm sure I'll get more people who totally miss the point and parrot "but pvp'ers have to do pve bla bla bla" bs. But it seems like it would be better for both groups if pve viable abilities were obtainable in pve so us filthy pve'ers aren't constantly dying and making your teams weaker.

Firstly I cannot be bothered to read the wall of post below yours no offense intended but I’ll reply directly to your question.

I do not in anyway want an obnoxious PVEr who has no interest to git gud, no interest to learn strategy/tactics and/or to participate are in any small way to our community to meet different people and engage in another part of the game.

So short and sweet grind your skills solo and gtfo neither my faction nor my queen need you.

Majority of PVPers are end game players, vMSA/DSA vets and believe me you think we want to run vCOA2 with a group finder to farm BSW lulz I can tell you out of you and me who will have the easier time grinding....

In all honesty why did you post, I hope you were not looking for a cuddle from the forum.

No one is begging you please join pvp.

Stay salty.

phileunderx2 · October 2017

I took my healer on ps4 this morning to start getting war horn unlocked. Had it in little over an hour.

tizodd · October 2017

elfantasmo wrote: »

Firstly I cannot be bothered to read the wall of post below yours no offense intended but I’ll reply directly to your question.

I do not in anyway want an obnoxious PVEr who has no interest to git gud, no interest to learn strategy/tactics and/or to participate are in any small way to our community to meet different people and engage in another part of the game.

So short and sweet grind your skills solo and gtfo neither my faction nor my queen need you.

Majority of PVPers are end game players, vMSA/DSA vets and believe me you think we want to run vCOA2 with a group finder to farm BSW lulz I can tell you out of you and me who will have the easier time grinding....

In all honesty why did you post, I hope you were not looking for a cuddle from the forum.

No one is begging you please join pvp.

Stay salty.

Lol what a barrel of positivity you are. Must be really fun at parties.

Motherball · October 2017

Now, a question to pvp'ers who like it the way it is: why do you even want people like me and other pve'ers in Cyrodiil with you?

Sociopaths and sadism. “I had to suffer and so do you.” Meat for the grinder.

elfantasmo · October 2017

[/quote]

Lol what a barrel of positivity you are. Must be really fun at parties.

[/quote]

I’m fun time Charlie!! But if you whinge at me all night about how *** your life is and kill my buzz you better believe ima slap you son :-)

SydneyGrey · October 2017

Vigor and Caltrops should be in the Fighter's Guild skill line.
Luckily I like PvP, so it doesn't affect me personally any longer. I remember being new to the game, though, and hating the idea of being forced to do PvP just to get a couple of skills. I did without Vigor and Caltrops for a LONG time. I had quit playing my stamina nightblade, because stamblade heals suck without Vigor. Then one day I decided to do PvP, and found myself enjoying it. I ended up getting Vigor and Caltrops on that nightblade, and he's been a pleasure to play ever since, and turned into one of my two favorite characters.
I still think those two skills should be in the Fighter's Guild line, for all the reasons the OP outlined.

tizodd · October 2017

elfantasmo wrote: »

Lol what a barrel of positivity you are. Must be really fun at parties.

[/quote]

I’m fun time Charlie!! But if you whinge at me all night about how *** your life is and kill my buzz you better believe ima slap you son :-)[/quote]

Guessing you meant whine because I have no clue what "whinge" is. But yeah...I never said anything about about how "*** my life is". I merely posed a question for pvp'ers.

Also, I seriously doubt you'd up and slap me...if you did, you might be surprised by what you got in return. Please just stop it with the internet thuggery.

AcadianPaladin · October 2017

I sympathize with the OP. My bow/bow stamsorc thought that perhaps vigor and caltrops would be nice. She made a bit of progress sneaking around doing scouting reports. She solo captured a couple towns. She was counterattacked a couple times and her response was to stow her bow and stand there until she could rez. At one point she actually joined a good group of half a dozen that clearly called Cyrodiil home. She stayed with the crown, stood behind tanks and did some good ranged damage, helping (a little) in a castle capturing session of several hours. She came out of it with plenty of level for vigor but not caltrops.

She used vigor for some time, then dropped it after realizing that Dark Deal (sorc skill) continued to be a better choice for her (costs mag, gives you heal + stam).

With a pair of full and pretty effective skill bars as it is, I don't think she'll return to Cyrodiil to get caltrops.

At the end of the day, the value of her Cyrodiil adventures was to confirm what we already knew - no interest in PvP.

DarcyMardin · October 2017

I don’t hate PVP — sometimes I actually have fun when I’m doing it — but I’m 98 percent a PVE’r and cannon fodder in PVP. Like many others, I only go for sky shards and enough AP to get the skills I might need someday. I will die fast if attacked one-on-one, and instantly if ganked by more than one opponent. (Fortunately dying doesn’t bother me). I do try to help my alliance, though. I wear PVP gear, take pots, do siege and repair and throw myself into both the attack and the defense. I heal my ass off when on a healer. But I don’t really feel any desire to “git gud” or learn to be a PvP beast. Maybe if and when I get bored with PvE?

I do have caltrops on a couple of characters now (nice skill!) but I’m not sure I’ll grind it on anyone else.

duendology · October 2017

Being completely unexperienced in the PVP area I decided to join and see what it is like. I went to Cyrodiil knowing perfectly well my gear was not even best for PVE area. Hell, I am 280-somthing champion and I am still inexperienced but I've been observing and learning. I am hesitant to join group because my impression is most of PVPers are a little bit too serious about this pvp as if their real freaking lives depended whether they win a campaign or not... o_0

Anyway, having said that, "cyrodiling" as a solo player and having died a couple of times, I did enjoy pvp. I helped my alliance group as much as I could. Also, it took me max 4 hours (in two seatings) to unlock this pvp skill line (maybe I was lucky and there was just huge "traffic" then?).and haven't used it because I believed it does not work in PVE area...and it does? haha ...Now that's interesting.

LioraValkyrie · October 2017

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

Honest question. Where would you like to put caltrops instead? I get the idea taking it away from pvp. But where would you put it? Unless you made up a new skills line that could be unlocked by PVP or PVE I don’t see a solution that works.

You also have to looks at the rest of the arguement. If you put this skill into one of the PVE lines it forces pvp players into more PVE. And if you put it on a weapon it limits choices. Both of those options are worse in my mind then having some pvers running around pvp for, as you point out, a fairly short amount of time.

Maybe keep the Alliance War skill lines as they are, but reward substantial AP for quests in Cyrodiil. There are already AP rewards for the quests but they are pitiful, smaller than the reward for killing a single player in 1v1. Why not make the Cyrodiil quests provide decent AP, at least the first time you complete them, so that by the time a person has the 'Cyrodiil Adventurer' achievement, they should also have at least rank 7 in Alliance War, thus providing a PvE-friendly route to accessing these skills.

That said, capturing resources in the early hours or participating in other 'PvDoor' activities can serve the purpose of gaining AP while staying out of mainstream PvP. Since I have dropped out of the PvP scene, this is my preferred method for levelling up those skill lines.

BFT88 · October 2017

LioraValkyrie wrote: »

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

Honest question. Where would you like to put caltrops instead? I get the idea taking it away from pvp. But where would you put it? Unless you made up a new skills line that could be unlocked by PVP or PVE I don’t see a solution that works.

You also have to looks at the rest of the arguement. If you put this skill into one of the PVE lines it forces pvp players into more PVE. And if you put it on a weapon it limits choices. Both of those options are worse in my mind then having some pvers running around pvp for, as you point out, a fairly short amount of time.

Maybe keep the Alliance War skill lines as they are, but reward substantial AP for quests in Cyrodiil. There are already AP rewards for the quests but they are pitiful, smaller than the reward for killing a single player in 1v1. Why not make the Cyrodiil quests provide decent AP, at least the first time you complete them, so that by the time a person has the 'Cyrodiil Adventurer' achievement, they should also have at least rank 7 in Alliance War, thus providing a PvE-friendly route to accessing these skills.

That said, capturing resources in the early hours or participating in other 'PvDoor' activities can serve the purpose of gaining AP while staying out of mainstream PvP. Since I have dropped out of the PvP scene, this is my preferred method for levelling up those skill lines.

Coming soon to cyrodiil: Grand Overlords from questing.

elfantasmo · October 2017

tizodd wrote: »

elfantasmo wrote: »

Lol what a barrel of positivity you are. Must be really fun at parties.

I’m fun time Charlie!! But if you whinge at me all night about how *** your life is and kill my buzz you better believe ima slap you son :-)[/quote]

Guessing you meant whine because I have no clue what "whinge" is. But yeah...I never said anything about about how "*** my life is". I merely posed a question for pvp'ers.

Also, I seriously doubt you'd up and slap me...if you did, you might be surprised by what you got in return. Please just stop it with the internet thuggery.[/quote]

Maybe it’s lost in translation between culture It’s called a metaphor so my bad. I didn’t actually mean I’m going to internet slap you lol are you seriously internet reproaching me? The point of my response is why is there so much negativity. If you really want the skill which you obv need to min/max your PVE build then just grind it... we already established it takes max a few hours... what’s the problem. Take this less seriously bud it is escapism.... not real life.

zaria · October 2017

coop500 wrote: »

The only argument PVPers have OP that's a little valid is once upon a time the game was, when it was first released, advertised as a PVP game.

But if anyone used two cents worth of brains and see the ELDER SCROLLS part, they would realize it's a PVE game first and foremost.

However, not everyone knows TES series and just listened to the Devs and thus, fell into the 'trap'

Caltrops was designed as an pvp tool to dismount players or force them out of stealth.
It was changed to give more stamina ranged aoe.
Vigor is also most relevant for PvP, you don't need it much for overland pve and in dungeons you have an healer.

Solariken · October 2017

I just don't understand why people don't like PvP, especially in ESO which has such excellent, active, dynamic combat that really shines in PvP where anything can happen. There's a big sandbox for people who like to play at war and there are BG's for people who like small-scale objectives.

Yes, "gitting gud" is a barrier to entry in some ways, but in my opinion it's no more an issue for PvP than learning vMA or learning to pull the DPS needed for vet trials.

What is so awful that makes the road to unlocking Caltrops such an unbearable slog? I'm genuinely curious for any who would answer this (and tag me in case I forget about the thread).

Loralai_907 · October 2017

For the longest time, all I did was PvE. I was too nervous to even attempt PvP, because I had this idea that everyone was already established and my very obvious super badness at it was going to either lead to people being mean or that I would in some way hold my faction back. I've been playing almost solely PvP for a couple of months now and I can say that all my concerns have proved to be invalid. No one is super mean. I die a lot yeah, but I die a lot less than I did a couple of months ago. I do what I can to be helpful, try to be at places that need bodies, even repair walls and such if nothing else is going on. I can't solo a dam thing yet, but I'm a squishy mag DK and not quite sure yet how to fix that. I don't group up, but I do just kind of run around with random other players.

I don't think moving skills away from the PvP lines is necessary. As other people have said, it takes so little time to get the skills unlocked, it isn't exactly a super hardship. And, serious PvP players are right, they have to do all sorts of PvE content just to get the ideal sets they might want or need. And of course, not just once, but more than likely several times a year due to ZOS changing everything up all the time. So you want caltrops on multiple characters, thats easy, you go do it and then if you hate PvP you don't have to go back. PvP players don't get to shut out PvE after running through it once per character.

I'm still looking forward to getting that black dye that you can only get through PvP. That one used to bug me a lot, I had at one point just accepted I would never have it. Now that I am really enjoying PvP, I know that someday I will have it. Which is awesome

tizodd · October 2017

elfantasmo wrote: »

Maybe it’s lost in translation between culture It’s called a metaphor so my bad. I didn’t actually mean I’m going to internet slap you lol are you seriously internet reproaching me? The point of my response is why is there so much negativity. If you really want the skill which you obv need to min/max your PVE build then just grind it... we already established it takes max a few hours... what’s the problem. Take this less seriously bud it is escapism.... not real life.

Ahh miscommunication then. No harm no foul.

On subject: I've already grinded it and I've conceded that it didn't take as long as I thought it would. I still however, stand by my opinion that it should either be obtainable via pve methods, or removed from pve entirely. It's one thing to grind pve to get gear/skills maxed; it's another thing to be forced to play a game mode you despise in order to get an ability that is very useful in pve.

Many of the "negative" responses seem to stem from a "your fun is wrong" mentality. My disdain for pvp is not an attack on pvp'ers, but they seem to take it that way and get defensive. I have nothing against pvp or pvp'ers...I just don't enjoy it and don't fully understand why pvp'ers are so against having an ability like Caltrops obtainable via pve methods.