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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/668104/
• PC/Mac: NA and EU megaservers for maintenance – November 1, 4:00AM EDT (8:00 UTC) - 9:00AM EDT (13:00 UTC)
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/668104/
Sorcerers Overperforming
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EnOeZ✭✭✭✭Too much damage, too little cost. I say 33% damage Reduction to all abilities with about 50% ult cost increase. Definitely OP, for reasons I don't even have to logically prove. Nerf ZoS nerf, you listen to every one of these. Do it now. Come on, do it.
I do agree PVP-wise, there is an issue with (good) sorcs !
So you agree that sorcs need a 33% dmg reduction? Lol. Not even gonna go on and try to explain all the other things you mentioned cause you dont really care to listen and understand. You are the usual guy that gets killed by sorcs and just jumps on the nerf sorc train because you dont want to bother to actually learn how to play against them.
The funny thing is that if you actually made a sorc and tried to play with it, you would die even faster.
And whats even more funny is that even if you nerfed sorc dmg by 33% you would still die to them cause again, the issue isnt sorcs, the issue is with you and refusing to learn.
What are you talking about ?
Did you play with me ? Did you meet me ? Do you know me ?
So logical conclusion : pure worthless speculation.0 -
Morvane✭✭✭✭Too much damage, too little cost. I say 33% damage Reduction to all abilities with about 50% ult cost increase. Definitely OP, for reasons I don't even have to logically prove. Nerf ZoS nerf, you listen to every one of these. Do it now. Come on, do it.
Daus go back to parent's houseDC Dunmer Sorcerer since 2014
@morvayn54, PC/EU0 -
EnOeZ✭✭✭✭Too much damage, too little cost. I say 33% damage Reduction to all abilities with about 50% ult cost increase. Definitely OP, for reasons I don't even have to logically prove. Nerf ZoS nerf, you listen to every one of these. Do it now. Come on, do it.
I do agree PVP-wise, there is an issue with (good) sorcs !
Why ? Simply because of current game-design lead : only needing to invest into offense to improve max damage, mobility and defense is problematic. You get it maximize magicka and you get all of that thanks to how "bubbles" scale. AND being range is a huge advantage.
This is an odd view - but a common one. Let me give a counter view..
Shields are (I think) the only defence in game that scales based on your stats - this means you *have to* up those stats. There is no choice in the matter.
That it is not impacted by spell-power means that you are upping max mag at the cost of lower spell-power. Now on a like for like basis, (ie comparing set bonuses etc.) you get more damage by working on spell-power than you do working on max mag instead.
So
Where other classes have the option of focussing on power for more damage - what do they need to focus on for defence? Well, enough sustain to defend with. If you have 20k stam, a block stops the same amount as a block with 40k stam.. So basically as long as your sustain is good, you don't NEED max stats for better def.
This of course means you can focus MORE on damage via spell/wpn power - which ALSO increases your healing!! adding nicely to survivability.
Ahh, but sorcs only stack mag and get damage, survivability, manoeverability....
Not true. They also need sustain (just like everyone else)
A LOT of sustain for manoeverability. Max Mag doesn't affect it at all. In fact, it can make it worse as you'd need more stam instead to sprint with boundless up..
Also for defence, most decent sorcs go for a fair bit of stam/stam recov too for more dodges - because despite popular opinion, shields on their own are NOT enough.
Hm, don't most other classes have to also use stam/stam recov for defence??
I have 2 main builds I like playing a the mo on magsorc.
One is a max-mag setup. It has poor sustain and very poor mobility. It has big shields and great burst though. Best used in a zerg, bursting other zerglings. 51k max mag
The other is a mobility/survivable setup.. 40k max mag but more sustain. Has a lot of clever buffs for resists to handle hits when shields drop (which they do) - but overall it has MORE survivability than my max mag build. Does much less burst damage though (but probably more sustained)
Point is, more max mag is not necessarily more survivability when you look at what is lost.
Most people see the burst from my first build, and may see big shields for a short while too, but mistakenly think it sustains, survives and has mobility like my 2nd build...
Like all classes - sorcs gotta compromise too.
I get your point, however I would argue that Sorcs have less compromises to do than first line Heavy Armor Melee Fighters.
You said Sorcs build around
1- Damage Max Magicka
2- Spell Power and Crit
3- Mag Regen
I say Melee Stam DKs (just for example)
1- Damage Max Stam
2- Weapon Power (and crit for some)
3- Stam Regen (but does not work in block so ->4)
4- Cost reduction (some even use block cost reduction)
5- Pumping Mag resistance (and...)
6- Pumping Physical resistance (when sorcs pump their shield for both)
7- Pumping Crit Resistance (Sorcs does not need to since shields are crit-proof and therefore are better with infused/divine traits than impenetrable)
As a consequence, there is a spread of points/gear with Melee HA Stam DK for example compared to a lesser spread of gear/points for LA Sorcs. At equal skill, Sorcs have a tremendous advantage in character gearing.0 -
Biro123✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Too much damage, too little cost. I say 33% damage Reduction to all abilities with about 50% ult cost increase. Definitely OP, for reasons I don't even have to logically prove. Nerf ZoS nerf, you listen to every one of these. Do it now. Come on, do it.
I do agree PVP-wise, there is an issue with (good) sorcs !
Why ? Simply because of current game-design lead : only needing to invest into offense to improve max damage, mobility and defense is problematic. You get it maximize magicka and you get all of that thanks to how "bubbles" scale. AND being range is a huge advantage.
This is an odd view - but a common one. Let me give a counter view..
Shields are (I think) the only defence in game that scales based on your stats - this means you *have to* up those stats. There is no choice in the matter.
That it is not impacted by spell-power means that you are upping max mag at the cost of lower spell-power. Now on a like for like basis, (ie comparing set bonuses etc.) you get more damage by working on spell-power than you do working on max mag instead.
So
Where other classes have the option of focussing on power for more damage - what do they need to focus on for defence? Well, enough sustain to defend with. If you have 20k stam, a block stops the same amount as a block with 40k stam.. So basically as long as your sustain is good, you don't NEED max stats for better def.
This of course means you can focus MORE on damage via spell/wpn power - which ALSO increases your healing!! adding nicely to survivability.
Ahh, but sorcs only stack mag and get damage, survivability, manoeverability....
Not true. They also need sustain (just like everyone else)
A LOT of sustain for manoeverability. Max Mag doesn't affect it at all. In fact, it can make it worse as you'd need more stam instead to sprint with boundless up..
Also for defence, most decent sorcs go for a fair bit of stam/stam recov too for more dodges - because despite popular opinion, shields on their own are NOT enough.
Hm, don't most other classes have to also use stam/stam recov for defence??
I have 2 main builds I like playing a the mo on magsorc.
One is a max-mag setup. It has poor sustain and very poor mobility. It has big shields and great burst though. Best used in a zerg, bursting other zerglings. 51k max mag
The other is a mobility/survivable setup.. 40k max mag but more sustain. Has a lot of clever buffs for resists to handle hits when shields drop (which they do) - but overall it has MORE survivability than my max mag build. Does much less burst damage though (but probably more sustained)
Point is, more max mag is not necessarily more survivability when you look at what is lost.
Most people see the burst from my first build, and may see big shields for a short while too, but mistakenly think it sustains, survives and has mobility like my 2nd build...
Like all classes - sorcs gotta compromise too.
I get your point, however I would argue that Sorcs have less compromises to do than first line Heavy Armor Melee Fighters.
You said Sorcs build around
1- Damage Max Magicka
2- Spell Power and Crit
3- Mag Regen
I say Melee Stam DKs (just for example)
1- Damage Max Stam
2- Weapon Power (and crit for some)
3- Stam Regen (but does not work in block so ->4)
4- Cost reduction (some even use block cost reduction)
5- Pumping Mag resistance (and...)
6- Pumping Physical resistance (when sorcs pump their shield for both)
7- Pumping Crit Resistance (Sorcs does not need to since shields are crit-proof and therefore are better with infused/divine traits than impenetrable)
As a consequence, there is a spread of points/gear with Melee HA Stam DK for example compared to a lesser spread of gear/points for LA Sorcs. At equal skill, Sorcs have a tremendous advantage in character gearing.
Its true - but not as pronounced as you may think. One of my current builds is using the following (I'll use numbers that relate to your above points):
1. max mag
2. spell power and crit (a must for burst to work)
3. mag regen
4. mag cost reduction (I often have 1 of these - they are more efficient while in combat)
5. Mag resistances (current build uses bloodspawn and access to both major and minor ward/resolve buffs)
6. Physical resists - see 5 (ovs not as much as a stam build - but its not to be ignored)
7. 1500 crit resist - its not as much as a stam build - but it definitely cannot be ignored.
and
9. max stam - (from food choice on this build - sometimes its from set bonuses)
10. Stam recov - (from bloodspawn + class passives.. whay do mag sorcs have easier acces to stam recov passives than stamsorcs)
11. stam sustain (I use a few well-fitted and plenty of cp in dodge/breakfree/sprint cost reduction - much of the sorc mobility actually comes from boundless/sprint rather than the limited streak.)
Don't get me wrong, I know most stam builds also need a little investment into magica mag recov etc. which generally makes it reasonably even.
Basically the shield thing? Unless your massively stacking max magica - (and I'm talking 50k+ with pets etc.), then you cannot ignore impen and resists.
If you are stacking that mag, then its still risky to ignore them - but some players have got used to that risk and accept the instant deaths they get when they make a mistake.
Minalan owes me a beer.
PC EU Megaserver
Minie Mo - Stam/Magblade - DC
Woody Ron - Stamplar - DC
Aidee - Magsorc - DC
Notadorf - Stamsorc - DC
Khattman Doo - Stamblade - Relegated to Crafter, cos AD.0 -
deepseamk20b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Personally I think shields should become 39% stronger. Frags should hit for 3.23% less. Familiars should auto reapply food buffs and change to pink if they are confused.Hey everyone! Look! It's a signature!2 -
Strider__Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »Personally I think shields should become 39% stronger. Frags should hit for 3.23% less. Familiars should auto reapply food buffs and change to pink if they are confused.
I can get behind most of this, but turning pink would just be way too OP! I think turning maroon would be a much more balanced change.1 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »Personally I think shields should become 39% stronger. Frags should hit for 3.23% less. Familiars should auto reapply food buffs and change to pink if they are confused.
I can get behind most of this, but turning pink would just be way too OP! I think turning maroon would be a much more balanced change.
What?! Clearly showing your opponent that your pets' are confused is a huge nerf, ZoS will ruin pet builds in PvP. Don't nerf PvP because of PvE!Edited by Waffennacht on October 23, 2017 7:22PM2 -
Rainraven✭✭✭✭✭deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »Personally I think shields should become 39% stronger. Frags should hit for 3.23% less. Familiars should auto reapply food buffs and change to pink if they are confused.
New armor set: 10 percent chance on use of a Stormcalling ability to instead Summon the Confetti Whirlwind. All enemy players caught in the confetti laugh hysterically for 2 seconds. Enemy NPCs shrink 50% for 3 seconds. Casting sorcerer becomes a balloon animal for 2.5 seconds. Grants CC immunity to everyone in the zone, except for people wielding mauls.1 -
Mickey✭✭✭Too much damage, too little cost. I say 33% damage Reduction to all abilities with about 50% ult cost increase. Definitely OP, for reasons I don't even have to logically prove. Nerf ZoS nerf, you listen to every one of these. Do it now. Come on, do it.
This thread is harder to understand than this...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJU08AaqP7I 2 -
Joosef_Kivikilpi✭✭✭✭Brutusmax1mus wrote: »If you cry nerf you should immediately have all your skills changed to blood fountain
I see your blood fountain, and I raise you a bone shield.
Such great skills!
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Cadbury✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Too much damage, too little cost. I say 33% damage Reduction to all abilities with about 50% ult cost increase. Definitely OP, for reasons I don't even have to logically prove. Nerf ZoS nerf, you listen to every one of these. Do it now. Come on, do it.
This thread is harder to understand than this...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJU08AaqP7I
The video seems like a perfectly reasonable critique of the Sorcerer class, imho.
I'll have to check out his channel for build tips"If a person is truly desirous of something, perhaps being set on fire does not seem so bad."0 -
Thunderknuckles✭✭✭✭Brutusmax1mus wrote: »If you cry nerf you should immediately have all your skills changed to blood fountain
I see your blood fountain, and I raise you a bone shield.
N3rf Boneshield !!11!0 -
SydneyGrey✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Enemies caught in the confetti whirlwind are blinded for 30 minutes until they pick all the glitter out of their eyes. Let's face it, paper confetti isn't damaging enough, but glitter hurled at your opponent will destroy them. They'd be on hands and knees on the floor crying out in pain.New armor set: 10 percent chance on use of a Stormcalling ability to instead Summon the Confetti Whirlwind. All enemy players caught in the confetti laugh hysterically for 2 seconds. Enemy NPCs shrink 50% for 3 seconds. Casting sorcerer becomes a balloon animal for 2.5 seconds. Grants CC immunity to everyone in the zone, except for people wielding mauls.
The problem with threads like these that are jokes are that the devs are just going to see it and say "Oh, another nerf sorc thread ... maybe we should nerf sorcs!" They aren't going to read all these replies.
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ak_pvp✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭SydneyGrey wrote: »
Enemies caught in the confetti whirlwind are blinded for 30 minutes until they pick all the glitter out of their eyes. Let's face it, paper confetti isn't damaging enough, but glitter hurled at your opponent will destroy them. They'd be on hands and knees on the floor crying out in pain.New armor set: 10 percent chance on use of a Stormcalling ability to instead Summon the Confetti Whirlwind. All enemy players caught in the confetti laugh hysterically for 2 seconds. Enemy NPCs shrink 50% for 3 seconds. Casting sorcerer becomes a balloon animal for 2.5 seconds. Grants CC immunity to everyone in the zone, except for people wielding mauls.
The problem with threads like these that are jokes are that the devs are just going to see it and say "Oh, another nerf sorc thread ... maybe we should nerf sorcs!" They aren't going to read all these replies.
Glitter is now an unpurgable dot that causes itching and lasts months.
If the character has a house then it too is affected with glitter.MagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
Best houseknight EU.1 -
ccfeeling✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Sorcerers Overperforming?
No , they can't solo all vet dungeons , just about 70% , not perfect at all .0