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• PC/Mac: EU megaserver for maintenance – September 9, 22:00 UTC (6:00PM EDT) - September 10, 16:00 UTC (12:00PM EDT) https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/682784
ARE U HAPPY NOW ZOS IS DOING SOMETHING***Interview With Miat*** Lets Talk Add Ons, Cheating and Q/A
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Juhasow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Nice explanation which...doesnt explain anything. You didnt explained why it is 8% and also provided nonsense arguments...
It's 8% because I wanted a 95% confidence level. More on this below.I don't, and that's a good thing. Otherwise there'd be polling bias and you could accuse the pollster of handpicking a favourable demographic.
You can still accuse poll of beeing biased just because You dont know is this group of people representative or not. It can have 90% of 1 demographic model and 10% of 2nd one which also makes poll biased.
Why don't you prove that, if you think that's somehow (I don't see how it'd even be possible) the case? Forums are open to everyone playing this game, everywhere. The question in the poll isn't biased, the pollster neutral. What makes it biased? Which specific "demographic models" are you referring to?Well, only people who have played/still play ESO have forum access to vote on these polls. It doesn't matter how (or why) console players vote, the poll wasn't asking PC players only.
Imagine if ZOS were to add addons to console as well some day - they do have a stake in this as well.
That's not even full answer on my quiestion. You may not know but there is group of people who barely or even dont play anyomore in the game but participate in forum more then regular players and many of them dont even fully know what Miat is.
So? This particular poll you linked is about whether people want addons disabled for PvP or not. What kind of knowledge people have about different addons is irrelevant.
The list of things people have voted for without being aware of all the facts is a long & painful read, but let's not turn this into a politics discussion.Imo it does matter how consoile players vote because they're voting on things that they're not affected with it's like people under 18 y.o voting for president. Fact that some day add ons can come on consoles doesnt change anything sonce poll is about current not future state of game. When kids get in age they can vote for president before that their vote is meaningless and noone cares they'll reach maturity in few months.
Well that's one arrogant statement.
Console players aren't "children" (well, some of them are...) - there's no comparison to be made there.
What your argument entails is voter suppression.
If you want a better analogy, try this:
You have planet Earth (ESO)
You have deadly disease (Miat's) ravaging the population in Country A (PC)
In country B (consoles), people are asked if they want that deadly disease.I don't know that, nor am I supposed to. Again, polling needs to be random in order to avoid bias.
Polling also has to be made on representative group of people otherwise it's biased. We dont even know is half of the people know what Miat add-on is.
Again, does it matter if some people don't know what Miat addon is? If anything, that should make less people vote for total addon ban as the poll you linked advocates.
I could say the same "half the people didn't know who/what they voted for" about 99% of world problems, but that'd be the very bias these polls are trying to avoid.That's why you apply margin of error - to make it more reliable.
With 150 sample size you get it down to 8% margin of error with 95% confidence (5% chance it's wrong). With 99% confidence level you'd have a margin of error of 11% with that sample size.
Math please. Math considering we dont kno anything of people voting and we take under consideration fact most of them may even not know what Miat is because I think Your math is based on voting where You are 100% sure asked people knows what the question is about and I've been on this forum too long to be sure of that.
z=desired confidence level
p=sample proportion (can be left infinite)
n=sample size
Confidence levels:
95%=1.96
98%=2.33
99%=2.58
The same method is used by all election polls etc out there which ask a couple hundred or thousand random people (out of millions) for their opinions, and then with margin of error come up with an accurate (within the desired confidence level) range that represents the whole population.
Everything You're saying sounds nice but what if I would tell You now I bringed 20 guildmates to vote same as me in this poll ? Which means 13% of people who voted are faked. What is margin of error now ? Formula You posted can be nice but not for polls like this one You linked.
If you bring 20 guildmates to vote the same as you in the poll,
presumably because they agree with you, as there is not really a way to 'police' them voting otherwise
then you increase the sample size of the poll
rather than create 'fake votes'
If you made 20 false forum accounts
and voted with your personal preference on each account
in order to skew the poll
those would be fake votes
And what if they didnt agreed with me but I gaved candy to each one of them and since they dont care about forum they voted as I wanted despite not agreeing with option they choosed ?
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Rohamad_Ali✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Voting aside , ZoS finally looked into this and said straight up the do not like how it is effecting gameplay and will make even more adjustments to the API . Their vote is the one that matters most as this is their creation . I am so happy their opinion matches mine this time and they agree that the game has a stealth mechanic not intended to be bypassed . It will be good to play the game as intended again , hopefully sooner then soon .8 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
The margin of error at 170 votes would be 7.52%.
The poll currently has 150 votes (8% margin of error) & says 48% for "No. Keep Add-Ons. (Explain)" with 72 votes - 92 votes for "No. Keep Add-Ons. (Explain)" would mean 54% of people voted to keep them, which is well within the 8% margin of error.
Outside some major interference margin of error is applicable & accurate - but the confidence level isn't 100% for a reason.
You dont get it. What if I would tell You there is me and 20 of my guildmates which I asked to vote same as me inside that 150 voting people ?
Then I'd doubt your sincerity - I find it hard to believe anyone would mobilize even one person to vote on an insignificant online poll in ESO forums. Vote brigading is something that happens when a poll might have an actual tangible effect on things, i.e. it's high profile/an official poll.
But if you did, then it would affect the number (though only slightly, as only 20 people would still fall within the previously provided margin of error).Edited by DDuke on October 22, 2017 9:43PM0 -
Samadhi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Nice explanation which...doesnt explain anything. You didnt explained why it is 8% and also provided nonsense arguments...
It's 8% because I wanted a 95% confidence level. More on this below.I don't, and that's a good thing. Otherwise there'd be polling bias and you could accuse the pollster of handpicking a favourable demographic.
You can still accuse poll of beeing biased just because You dont know is this group of people representative or not. It can have 90% of 1 demographic model and 10% of 2nd one which also makes poll biased.
Why don't you prove that, if you think that's somehow (I don't see how it'd even be possible) the case? Forums are open to everyone playing this game, everywhere. The question in the poll isn't biased, the pollster neutral. What makes it biased? Which specific "demographic models" are you referring to?Well, only people who have played/still play ESO have forum access to vote on these polls. It doesn't matter how (or why) console players vote, the poll wasn't asking PC players only.
Imagine if ZOS were to add addons to console as well some day - they do have a stake in this as well.
That's not even full answer on my quiestion. You may not know but there is group of people who barely or even dont play anyomore in the game but participate in forum more then regular players and many of them dont even fully know what Miat is.
So? This particular poll you linked is about whether people want addons disabled for PvP or not. What kind of knowledge people have about different addons is irrelevant.
The list of things people have voted for without being aware of all the facts is a long & painful read, but let's not turn this into a politics discussion.Imo it does matter how consoile players vote because they're voting on things that they're not affected with it's like people under 18 y.o voting for president. Fact that some day add ons can come on consoles doesnt change anything sonce poll is about current not future state of game. When kids get in age they can vote for president before that their vote is meaningless and noone cares they'll reach maturity in few months.
Well that's one arrogant statement.
Console players aren't "children" (well, some of them are...) - there's no comparison to be made there.
What your argument entails is voter suppression.
If you want a better analogy, try this:
You have planet Earth (ESO)
You have deadly disease (Miat's) ravaging the population in Country A (PC)
In country B (consoles), people are asked if they want that deadly disease.I don't know that, nor am I supposed to. Again, polling needs to be random in order to avoid bias.
Polling also has to be made on representative group of people otherwise it's biased. We dont even know is half of the people know what Miat add-on is.
Again, does it matter if some people don't know what Miat addon is? If anything, that should make less people vote for total addon ban as the poll you linked advocates.
I could say the same "half the people didn't know who/what they voted for" about 99% of world problems, but that'd be the very bias these polls are trying to avoid.That's why you apply margin of error - to make it more reliable.
With 150 sample size you get it down to 8% margin of error with 95% confidence (5% chance it's wrong). With 99% confidence level you'd have a margin of error of 11% with that sample size.
Math please. Math considering we dont kno anything of people voting and we take under consideration fact most of them may even not know what Miat is because I think Your math is based on voting where You are 100% sure asked people knows what the question is about and I've been on this forum too long to be sure of that.
z=desired confidence level
p=sample proportion (can be left infinite)
n=sample size
Confidence levels:
95%=1.96
98%=2.33
99%=2.58
The same method is used by all election polls etc out there which ask a couple hundred or thousand random people (out of millions) for their opinions, and then with margin of error come up with an accurate (within the desired confidence level) range that represents the whole population.
Everything You're saying sounds nice but what if I would tell You now I bringed 20 guildmates to vote same as me in this poll ? Which means 13% of people who voted are faked. What is margin of error now ? Formula You posted can be nice but not for polls like this one You linked.
If you bring 20 guildmates to vote the same as you in the poll,
presumably because they agree with you, as there is not really a way to 'police' them voting otherwise
then you increase the sample size of the poll
rather than create 'fake votes'
If you made 20 false forum accounts
and voted with your personal preference on each account
in order to skew the poll
those would be fake votes
And what if they didnt agreed with me but I gaved candy to each one of them and since they dont care about forum they voted as I wanted despite not agreeing with option they choosed ?
As long as they are players of the game,
they expand the sample size of the poll
have not given a *** about this thread or the outcome since page 1,
am just indicating you need to change your proposed scenario to match your argument "If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion." -- the 14th Dalai Lama
Wisdom is doing Now that which benefits you later.
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idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Pointless to argue with people who can't accept results they don't like.
@idk you can go ask 150 randomly selected people in game & I can guarantee you that you'll get the same result +-8%. Nobody cares enough to brigade polls like these. It is a public poll, so you can see a bunch of bots didn't vote in it.
So no, it's not "fake news".
Conversation over.
It has nothing to do with accepting or not accepting the results of the poll. Heck, I do not think Miat's, in it's current form, should be permitted. However, even the thread you linked earlier is not about Miat's, it is about Addons in general in PvP and that discussion was held almost 4 years ago.
My replies have solely been about the incorrect application statistics which ends up leading false statements. With some basic knowledge of the foundation of statistics it would become obvious.
There are various aspects to a proper survey that none are applied to the poll in question, or a great many of the player created polls in the forums. This type of poll is considered for entertainment value only. One of the main reasons is it mostly attracts those with strong opinions and leaves out a large swath in the middle. Zos is well aware of that.
Nothing personal. Just do not like seeing false statements of statistical information as has been presented here.
I will not reply with a comment that is intended to be a distraction or attempt to belittle someone as you have with your last reply.
None taken.
Seems like just an ideological difference then - I believe even online snap polls can be scientifically accurate given proper environment, context & margin of error.
I get the argument that people can opt in and that leads to possibility of it being manipulated (i.e. brigading), I just don't feel like it applies here in this case (though I acknowledge this might just be confirmation bias). There is a possibility I'm wrong.
Of course a poll where you ask people directly is more likely accurate, you're right in that regard and you're right to point that out. Sorry if you found my post belittling - been a little on edge lately as you can probably tell by going through the thread.
Probably someplace, but that environment does not exist in these forums.
Besides that, it does not make sense to me that Zos permits someone, via addon, to know an attack is being started that is targeting that player yet does not permit players in a group to see the resource polls of other players in the same group. It is illogical, yet we were able to see resource pools of all in our group before the API was restricted the first time
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Juhasow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
The margin of error at 170 votes would be 7.52%.
The poll currently has 150 votes (8% margin of error) & says 48% for "No. Keep Add-Ons. (Explain)" with 72 votes - 92 votes for "No. Keep Add-Ons. (Explain)" would mean 54% of people voted to keep them, which is well within the 8% margin of error.
Outside some major interference margin of error is applicable & accurate - but the confidence level isn't 100% for a reason.
You dont get it. What if I would tell You there is me and 20 of my guildmates which I asked to vote same as me inside that 150 voting people ?
Then I'd doubt your sincerity - I find it hard to believe anyone would mobilize even one person to vote on an insignificant online poll in ESO forums. Vote brigading is something that happens when a poll might have an actual tangible effect on things, i.e. it's high profile/an official poll.
But if you did, then it would affect the number (though only slightly, as only 20 people would still fall within the previously provided margin of error).
Still it is possible and You cant deny it. I like how You Yourself camed to conclusion that this voting is "insignificant online poll in ESO forums"
Also as the end of the conversation I reccomend You to look at this 2 almost similar polls with almost the same amount of people who voted yet with drasticly different results and both created same day.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/333626/what-is-your-most-fauvorite-pve-leaderboard-content#latest
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/333932/which-elite-pve-content-you-like-the-most#latestEdited by Juhasow on October 23, 2017 11:28AM0 -
Rickter✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
I stand corrected (sort of), the last meeting between ZOS and CoN was apparently in April ...
I'll have to check when i get home but i'm pretty sure it was more recent than that ...
Id love all the secret societies listed.
Council of Raiders,
Council of Nirn
Psijic Order
Im sure the list goes on. Got to be in the "in crowd" to be granted an audience with the devs i guess.RickterESO
PC | NA | DC
YouTube
______________________
Guilds: PvP:Bloodletter | StamDK | Alliance Rank 46 | Former Emperor of Shor (2018) | Former Emperor of Thornblade #4terms (2015)PvE:vAA HM | vHRC HM | vSO HM | vMA | vDSA | vMoL | ALL Vet 4 Man Dungeons6 -
Publius_Scipio✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Publius_Scipio wrote: »To me personally its not even the stealth protection that makes this addon feel too much, its the screming message when youre about to get cc`d what makes it infuriating. Was fighting around Ales the other day on my magnb, and i saw a magsorc with no shields on i was in sneak so i launched a quick heavy destro/destructive reach combo, needless to say the sorc had his shields up before i even finished the heavy attack animaton, and then thru our fight continuted to block every single fiery reach, before the animation even displayed. And no i wasnt lagging it was clear that he had this addon telling him when to block my cc.
Very skillful gameplay, very frustrating to play aganist. You can feel like an absolute champ using this addon when in reality your just getting your hand held. Do i think its cheating? No, sadly its part of the API, does it make it right? HELL NO
If ZOS is serious about this, I am sure they will do the right thing for all players.
If ZOS follows their past record on this. They won't give an update on it. Yes, they said they are looking into this, but they also said that last year.
From reading Gina's post, it seems ZOS is going to take action this time.1 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Publius_Scipio wrote: »Publius_Scipio wrote: »To me personally its not even the stealth protection that makes this addon feel too much, its the screming message when youre about to get cc`d what makes it infuriating. Was fighting around Ales the other day on my magnb, and i saw a magsorc with no shields on i was in sneak so i launched a quick heavy destro/destructive reach combo, needless to say the sorc had his shields up before i even finished the heavy attack animaton, and then thru our fight continuted to block every single fiery reach, before the animation even displayed. And no i wasnt lagging it was clear that he had this addon telling him when to block my cc.
Very skillful gameplay, very frustrating to play aganist. You can feel like an absolute champ using this addon when in reality your just getting your hand held. Do i think its cheating? No, sadly its part of the API, does it make it right? HELL NO
If ZOS is serious about this, I am sure they will do the right thing for all players.
If ZOS follows their past record on this. They won't give an update on it. Yes, they said they are looking into this, but they also said that last year.
From reading Gina's post, it seems ZOS is going to take action this time.
As much as I am woe to admit it, because the PVP crowd is up in arms, it was almost guarenteed to be made something of.
PVE raises this much hell? Nothing. PVP? it will be delt with, and quickly.2 -
Publius_Scipio✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Publius_Scipio wrote: »Publius_Scipio wrote: »To me personally its not even the stealth protection that makes this addon feel too much, its the screming message when youre about to get cc`d what makes it infuriating. Was fighting around Ales the other day on my magnb, and i saw a magsorc with no shields on i was in sneak so i launched a quick heavy destro/destructive reach combo, needless to say the sorc had his shields up before i even finished the heavy attack animaton, and then thru our fight continuted to block every single fiery reach, before the animation even displayed. And no i wasnt lagging it was clear that he had this addon telling him when to block my cc.
Very skillful gameplay, very frustrating to play aganist. You can feel like an absolute champ using this addon when in reality your just getting your hand held. Do i think its cheating? No, sadly its part of the API, does it make it right? HELL NO
If ZOS is serious about this, I am sure they will do the right thing for all players.
If ZOS follows their past record on this. They won't give an update on it. Yes, they said they are looking into this, but they also said that last year.
From reading Gina's post, it seems ZOS is going to take action this time.
As much as I am woe to admit it, because the PVP crowd is up in arms, it was almost guarenteed to be made something of.
PVE raises this much hell? Nothing. PVP? it will be delt with, and quickly.
Funny you feel that way, because the PvP crowd says the exact opposite.2 -
Ajantisz✭✭✭The addon is no different to ones that exist in almost every other MMO. Casting alert addons are pretty standard stuff, just like debuff, cooldown, diminishing return timers, dps meters, resource nodes maps, and boss alerts/timers.
If the "it's cheating" crowd were serious they would insist on a completely addon free play experience, as anything that gives the player information they dont directly see and track for themselves is "cheating".
Is it standard in other MMOs that addons show what invisible opponents are doing while "invisible"?
Also, how many of those MMOs have active spammable evasion mechanics to avoid those cast time abilities?
Oh, and it seems almost half the player base would rather disable all addons in PvP than suffer from Miat's:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/376334/would-you-like-add-ons-disabled-for-pvp/p1
Invisible no it isnt normal, but did they exist previously (eg in WoW vanilla early iterations of casting trackers would indicate when stealthed rogues would trigger Coldblood - skill that made next attack an autocrit), sure but it was hotfixed as a problem with the game engine. Typically accessing data that should be 'hidden' from the client is outside the usual, but if the server is feeding that info data back to the client then I dont blame players for using it.
Spammable evasion - I guess you mean rolling as everything else is chance or mitigation and not 'evasion', doesn't exist in ESO, no one can roll forever etc, and those arent exclusive in functionality to cast time skills and you are referring to mechanics that is nothing to do with the addon in question, so that point is irrelevant and poorly considered on your part.1 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Publius_Scipio wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Publius_Scipio wrote: »Publius_Scipio wrote: »To me personally its not even the stealth protection that makes this addon feel too much, its the screming message when youre about to get cc`d what makes it infuriating. Was fighting around Ales the other day on my magnb, and i saw a magsorc with no shields on i was in sneak so i launched a quick heavy destro/destructive reach combo, needless to say the sorc had his shields up before i even finished the heavy attack animaton, and then thru our fight continuted to block every single fiery reach, before the animation even displayed. And no i wasnt lagging it was clear that he had this addon telling him when to block my cc.
Very skillful gameplay, very frustrating to play aganist. You can feel like an absolute champ using this addon when in reality your just getting your hand held. Do i think its cheating? No, sadly its part of the API, does it make it right? HELL NO
If ZOS is serious about this, I am sure they will do the right thing for all players.
If ZOS follows their past record on this. They won't give an update on it. Yes, they said they are looking into this, but they also said that last year.
From reading Gina's post, it seems ZOS is going to take action this time.
As much as I am woe to admit it, because the PVP crowd is up in arms, it was almost guarenteed to be made something of.
PVE raises this much hell? Nothing. PVP? it will be delt with, and quickly.
Funny you feel that way, because the PvP crowd says the exact opposite.
They allways do.
It's callled a selective memory.2 -
SodanTok✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Publius_Scipio wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Publius_Scipio wrote: »Publius_Scipio wrote: »To me personally its not even the stealth protection that makes this addon feel too much, its the screming message when youre about to get cc`d what makes it infuriating. Was fighting around Ales the other day on my magnb, and i saw a magsorc with no shields on i was in sneak so i launched a quick heavy destro/destructive reach combo, needless to say the sorc had his shields up before i even finished the heavy attack animaton, and then thru our fight continuted to block every single fiery reach, before the animation even displayed. And no i wasnt lagging it was clear that he had this addon telling him when to block my cc.
Very skillful gameplay, very frustrating to play aganist. You can feel like an absolute champ using this addon when in reality your just getting your hand held. Do i think its cheating? No, sadly its part of the API, does it make it right? HELL NO
If ZOS is serious about this, I am sure they will do the right thing for all players.
If ZOS follows their past record on this. They won't give an update on it. Yes, they said they are looking into this, but they also said that last year.
From reading Gina's post, it seems ZOS is going to take action this time.
As much as I am woe to admit it, because the PVP crowd is up in arms, it was almost guarenteed to be made something of.
PVE raises this much hell? Nothing. PVP? it will be delt with, and quickly.
Funny you feel that way, because the PvP crowd says the exact opposite.
They allways do.
It's callled a selective memory.
Glad you came here to demonstrate it.4 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭The addon is no different to ones that exist in almost every other MMO. Casting alert addons are pretty standard stuff, just like debuff, cooldown, diminishing return timers, dps meters, resource nodes maps, and boss alerts/timers.
If the "it's cheating" crowd were serious they would insist on a completely addon free play experience, as anything that gives the player information they dont directly see and track for themselves is "cheating".
Is it standard in other MMOs that addons show what invisible opponents are doing while "invisible"?
Also, how many of those MMOs have active spammable evasion mechanics to avoid those cast time abilities?
Oh, and it seems almost half the player base would rather disable all addons in PvP than suffer from Miat's:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/376334/would-you-like-add-ons-disabled-for-pvp/p1
Invisible no it isnt normal, but did they exist previously (eg in WoW vanilla early iterations of casting trackers would indicate when stealthed rogues would trigger Coldblood - skill that made next attack an autocrit), sure but it was hotfixed as a problem with the game engine. Typically accessing data that should be 'hidden' from the client is outside the usual, but if the server is feeding that info data back to the client then I dont blame players for using it.
Good of you to bring that up. Note the highlighted portion: Blizzard had the sense to hotfix it asap, with ZOS we've had to make posts for almost a year about cast times/attacks from stealth being shown.
Better late than never I guess, but still...Spammable evasion - I guess you mean rolling as everything else is chance or mitigation and not 'evasion', doesn't exist in ESO, no one can roll forever etc, and those arent exclusive in functionality to cast time skills and you are referring to mechanics that is nothing to do with the addon in question, so that point is irrelevant and poorly considered on your part.
You don't need to dodge roll forever, just during the cast time/travel time period of a projectile. This is more than enough time to allow the dodge roll stacking cost modifier to reset.
Other spammable ways of avoiding projectiles: Scales, Cloak, Shimmering Shield
Sure, you can evade instant cast stuff as well - but cast time abilities are the ones most affected by someone evading them for multiple reasons:- You spend a lot of time more time casting that ability which then gets dodged/reflected/cloaked.
- Cast time abilities are usually used to bypass GCD in order to combo them with an instant cast ability. Dodging the cast time ability also dodges the instant cast ability set off to land at the same time.
- It is enough to dodge during the cast time period (considered as part of the attack) in order to dodge the ability, even if the projectile were to land 2 seconds after your dodge roll animation is over.
...and as this cheat addon practically guarantees your opponent will dodge/otherwise evade (or block, sometimes) all your cast time abilities, you might see why it's very relevant to the argument.Edited by DDuke on October 22, 2017 11:22PM2 -
Betsararie✭✭✭✭✭
✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Publius_Scipio wrote: »Publius_Scipio wrote: »To me personally its not even the stealth protection that makes this addon feel too much, its the screming message when youre about to get cc`d what makes it infuriating. Was fighting around Ales the other day on my magnb, and i saw a magsorc with no shields on i was in sneak so i launched a quick heavy destro/destructive reach combo, needless to say the sorc had his shields up before i even finished the heavy attack animaton, and then thru our fight continuted to block every single fiery reach, before the animation even displayed. And no i wasnt lagging it was clear that he had this addon telling him when to block my cc.
Very skillful gameplay, very frustrating to play aganist. You can feel like an absolute champ using this addon when in reality your just getting your hand held. Do i think its cheating? No, sadly its part of the API, does it make it right? HELL NO
If ZOS is serious about this, I am sure they will do the right thing for all players.
If ZOS follows their past record on this. They won't give an update on it. Yes, they said they are looking into this, but they also said that last year.
From reading Gina's post, it seems ZOS is going to take action this time.
As much as I am woe to admit it, because the PVP crowd is up in arms, it was almost guarenteed to be made something of.
PVE raises this much hell? Nothing. PVP? it will be delt with, and quickly.
Well balance matters more in PvP.
That said, I don't even agree with this.0 -
deepseamk20b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭The real issue here is I never real think about it. I’ll be hungry and I go and grab something to eat but peanut butter jelly is never really on my mind. But then there are those instances where for whatever reason I happen to have peanut butter jelly in my life. As I eat it I’m like, “holy shite, why don’t I eat more peanut butter and jelly? This stuff is great!” But alas, days go by and it’s snack time and the ol’ PB&J doesn’t even cross mind. Why? It’s delicious, yet it’s never really at the forefront of my mind. I don’t care if it’s creamy or chunky. Both are good, though I do tend to favor creamy. But as I sit here typing this now I wouldn’t mind chunky. It’s magical. Then there is the jelly. So many choices! Not just jelly but also jam! Now of course no one calls it peanut butter and jam but let’s be realistic here, would you split hairs when it comes to deliciousness? A good strawberry jam and some creamy peanut butter. Mmmm. Then of course there is the never ending battle between what peanut butter is the best. There are too many to choose from. I like my jiff but Peter Pan is good too. I suppose I’m the end it doesn’t matter as long as I have that beautiful sandwich and a tall glass of milk in front of me. Which by the way, is extremely important. Don’t forget the damn milk. We aren’t savages here for Christ sakes! Heck, I even have some jalepeno jelly. It’s actually really good. Just a little kick to go with the awesomeness which is PB&J. Don’t forget to use your imagination either! I’ll put some marshmallow on. Maybe banana. Try bacon. No joke. Heck put it on a burger! I’ll make a promise here and now. I promise that I will choose peanut butter and jelly. I will not forget our peanut buttery God’s and forsake the jelly I shall not. Please, stand with me everyone. Raise your sandwiches high and with pride!Hey everyone! Look! It's a signature!3 -
Dredlord✭✭✭✭✭The addon is no different to ones that exist in almost every other MMO. Casting alert addons are pretty standard stuff, just like debuff, cooldown, diminishing return timers, dps meters, resource nodes maps, and boss alerts/timers.
If the "it's cheating" crowd were serious they would insist on a completely addon free play experience, as anything that gives the player information they dont directly see and track for themselves is "cheating".
Is it standard in other MMOs that addons show what invisible opponents are doing while "invisible"?
Also, how many of those MMOs have active spammable evasion mechanics to avoid those cast time abilities?
Oh, and it seems almost half the player base would rather disable all addons in PvP than suffer from Miat's:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/376334/would-you-like-add-ons-disabled-for-pvp/p1
Since when forum polls with 150 people voting are analogue to whole player base opinion ? It's not how probe is working.
With 150 sample size the margin of error is 8%.
Because ? I mean what do You know about people who voted ? How do You know it was representative sample ? How do You know half of them wasnt console players or players who dont even know what term "add-on" means ? What do You know about this people experience with add-ons ? How much of this people is actually using them ? Also since it's open voting how can You know someone didnt asked firends to vote same as him ? I am not agaisnt results of this voting but lets be honest it's far from beeing reliable to the point it can mirror whole player base.
He owned you with math because you are uneducated...4 -
JonnytheKing✭✭✭✭✭So are poeple happy about zos making changers to this , im glad that we got something done. i want to thank the poeple that your smart about this and could see that it wasnt a cheat , but sadly must poeple are dumb and blind and think it ok to get angry at me for trying to help the community witch by the way i did . But at the end of the day im happy that zos replied its a GOOD start TWITCH jtk__gaming
GM of Elder-Skills DC PVP Guild NA
Main Toons
MagSorc
MagTemp2 -
T4T2FR34K✭✭✭✭✭JonnytheKing wrote: »So are poeple happy about zos making changers to this , im glad that we got something done. i want to thank the poeple that your smart about this and could see that it wasnt a cheat , but sadly must poeple are dumb and blind and think it ok to get angry at me for trying to help the community witch by the way i did . But at the end of the day im happy that zos replied its a GOOD start
Look, finding a loop-hole and exploiting it is exactly that...you don't want to call it cheating, whatever...its not ok however you label it...you don't have to and CAN NOT convince me otherwise...
...all this about you taking things personally and worrying about what some anonymous jackhole says on an online forum...LULZ, WHAT!?!?
I hope you're not really worried if you get little digital thumbs up...
...everyone cant be DanTDM(daughter in love with this clown for some reason)...
...some of us just gotta be gamers.
p.s. you bet I'm happy.Edited by T4T2FR34K on October 23, 2017 5:21AM2 -
Ackwalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭JonnytheKing wrote: »So are poeple happy about zos making changers to this , im glad that we got something done. i want to thank the poeple that your smart about this and could see that it wasnt a cheat , but sadly must poeple are dumb and blind and think it ok to get angry at me for trying to help the community witch by the way i did . But at the end of the day im happy that zos replied its a GOOD start
You loose all credibility when you label people as smart or dumb, depending on whether they agree with you or not.7 -
JonnytheKing✭✭✭✭✭JonnytheKing wrote: »So are poeple happy about zos making changers to this , im glad that we got something done. i want to thank the poeple that your smart about this and could see that it wasnt a cheat , but sadly must poeple are dumb and blind and think it ok to get angry at me for trying to help the community witch by the way i did . But at the end of the day im happy that zos replied its a GOOD start
You loose all credibility when you label people as smart or dumb, depending on whether they agree with you or not.
lol there is facts and opinions, its got nothing to do with them agreeing with me, and all so when poeple act in a toxic way they all so lose credibilityEdited by JonnytheKing on October 23, 2017 5:36AMTWITCH jtk__gaming
GM of Elder-Skills DC PVP Guild NA
Main Toons
MagSorc
MagTemp0 -
JonnytheKing✭✭✭✭✭JonnytheKing wrote: »So are poeple happy about zos making changers to this , im glad that we got something done. i want to thank the poeple that your smart about this and could see that it wasnt a cheat , but sadly must poeple are dumb and blind and think it ok to get angry at me for trying to help the community witch by the way i did . But at the end of the day im happy that zos replied its a GOOD start
Look, finding a loop-hole and exploiting it is exactly that...you don't want to call it cheating, whatever...its not ok however you label it...you don't have to and CAN NOT convince me otherwise...
...all this about you taking things personally and worrying about what some anonymous jackhole says on an online forum...LULZ, WHAT!?!?
I hope you're not really worried if you get little digital thumbs up...
...everyone cant be DanTDM(daughter in love with this clown for some reason)...
...some of us just gotta be gamers.
p.s. you bet I'm happy.
lol hahhahahahha TWITCH jtk__gaming
GM of Elder-Skills DC PVP Guild NA
Main Toons
MagSorc
MagTemp0 -
Rohamad_Ali✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭JonnytheKing wrote: »So are poeple happy about zos making changers to this , im glad that we got something done. i want to thank the poeple that your smart about this and could see that it wasnt a cheat , but sadly must poeple are "dumb" and blind and think it ok to get angry at me for trying to help the community witch by the way i did . But at the end of the day im happy that zos replied its a GOOD start
9 -
JonnytheKing✭✭✭✭✭i get poeple feel strongly on this and i get why poeple spoke out about this i can understand the frustration poeple have , but at the end of the day miat and myself made this video to try and get a response about it, witch we did and thank you to all of those that helped us do this. i dont think the hate and insults towards me and miat were not needed , at the end of the day we are all gamers that want the game we have sank so many hours in to , get better and funner for every one , thats the goel guys and dont forget it pleaseEdited by JonnytheKing on October 23, 2017 5:49AMTWITCH jtk__gaming
GM of Elder-Skills DC PVP Guild NA
Main Toons
MagSorc
MagTemp0 -
TheBonesXXX✭✭✭✭✭
✭ZOS biggest mistake was giving add-on developers so much pull during the earliest stages in the game, it was probably the biggest reason this game is not as good as it could have been.3 -
Voxicity✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭JonnytheKing wrote: »i get poeple feel strongly on this and i get why poeple spoke out about this i can understand the frustration poeple have , but at the end of the day miat and myself made this video to try and get a response about it, witch we did and thank you to all of those that helped us do this. i dont think the hate and insults towards me and miat were not needed , at the end of the day we are all gamers that want the game we have sank so many hours in to , get better and funner for every one , thats the goel guys and dont forget it please
>Calls everyone dumb/blind
>Literally types like a 7 year old
okEdited by Voxicity on October 23, 2017 6:17AM3 -
JonnytheKing✭✭✭✭✭JonnytheKing wrote: »i get poeple feel strongly on this and i get why poeple spoke out about this i can understand the frustration poeple have , but at the end of the day miat and myself made this video to try and get a response about it, witch we did and thank you to all of those that helped us do this. i dont think the hate and insults towards me and miat were not needed , at the end of the day we are all gamers that want the game we have sank so many hours in to , get better and funner for every one , thats the goel guys and dont forget it please
>Calls everyone dumb/blind
>Literally types like a 7 year old
ok
not every one , god man get it rightTWITCH jtk__gaming
GM of Elder-Skills DC PVP Guild NA
Main Toons
MagSorc
MagTemp0 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭So @DDuke what’s next on your crusade agenda? Seeing opponent health bars? Gives away a lot of information too.Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.3 -
SienneYviete✭✭✭✭✭
✭Rohamad_Ali wrote: »JonnytheKing wrote: »So are poeple happy about zos making changers to this , im glad that we got something done. i want to thank the poeple that your smart about this and could see that it wasnt a cheat , but sadly must poeple are "dumb" and blind and think it ok to get angry at me for trying to help the community witch by the way i did . But at the end of the day im happy that zos replied its a GOOD start
The original hurt my brain, thanks for the corrections.Delta
Valheru's0 -
SienneYviete✭✭✭✭✭
✭JonnytheKing wrote: »i get poeple feel strongly on this and i get why poeple spoke out about this i can understand the frustration poeple have , but at the end of the day miat and myself made this video to try and get a response about it, witch we did and thank you to all of those that helped us do this. i dont think the hate and insults towards me and miat were not needed , at the end of the day we are all gamers that want the game we have sank so many hours in to , get better and funner for every one , thats the goel guys and dont forget it please
>Calls everyone dumb/blind
>Literally types like a 7 year old
ok
Pretty insulting statement to any 7 year old's out there tbh.Delta
Valheru's3
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