Please start listening to us!

SirMewser · October 2017

PTS is dead in EU, why even be apart of a test when we have no influence in our responses?

We are what's being tested, responsively, that is the impression I'm under. ZoS has already claimed to have statistics on data and maybe that's what they are trusting more than us... Thing is, statistics doesn't calculate values that don't exist, such as player interest. There has been countless times each and every PTS where players said they don't like the change, changes made and then left partially functioning. This is where motivation of player interest comes in, if there is no response or reason to, then there is no incentive.
Why go on the PTS to give feedback on content if it doesn't lead to anything?

If you look at the forum posts that the staff created, you will notice that hovering over the "[Z]" indicates the number of times they responded to that post, you will also notice that in most cases, the "1" reply, is the original post, as if it were made and forgotten despite the pages of replies given to it. When there is more than 1 dev reply, it's only in response of questions regarding to the changes made (regardless if the players wanted the change or not), and why they are "justified" for making the change...

I am not to be implying that Zenimax Online Studio is going downhill, they make a lot of good changes and produce great work... What I am tired of is that they could do better by actually using player feedback, as an example: I am so bored of this game and it roots down to having no new abilities being added to having half of the morphs of my class being questionable. We told them what they can do, and they refuse it. (I doubt they don't read at all...)

I made this discussion to show concern for this issue, remember that PTS is for Public Test Server, we are the community and have a voice, there are some really good people here that only want the game we care for to get better.

Ragnarock41 · October 2017

I honestly believe ZOS is listening to the playerbase.
Especially to Dk/Templar players.

All your feedback, they did read all of it, and decided to put those into warden.

You wanted working wings,warden got it,
You wanted major expedition,warden got it
Crazy ult regen, warden got it
Major mending, warden got it
a class spammable, warden got it again.

So yeah.. the list could go on all day.
Point is they CLEARLY want DK/templar mains to buy morrowind and play warden.
There are ridicilous amounts of people asking for Dk buffs, and what you got for all that feedback is a petrify nerf.
Enjoy.

Malic · October 2017

They should be listening to me, im the only one making any sense at all on these forums.

Most of the post here are utter nonsense.

Soris · October 2017

Suggestions in these threads are given by the players who actually play the class and main it since launch or for long time who know every flaw in mechanics every weakness and every strength.

Yet you(zos) are often ignoring everyone and playing dead, sitting on your own hands doing nothing. There are those few moments when you take action only to do the opposite of what people said, or do literally illogical changes that you maybe thought it's cool but in reality makes no sense at all. It might look like you are doing something but actually you are just stalling the issues.

Then why do you ask for feedback in first place? Or what do you understand by the phrase of "giving feedback"? It is not something like applausing and cheering your name like in a football match and accepting every change you made mindlessly. Nope. Thats not going to happen. People will compare pros and cons, critise it for the good of game.

You've just announced that 10 million unique sales since launch. Well thats so good. I really hope you sell for another 10 million too. But seriously how many of them currently playing the game? How many of them playing pvp? Not many when you look at all those empty campaigns.

You have core loyal playerbase who will throw money to the screen every patch. Just dont mess with them. Also love DK/Templars more

SirMewser · October 2017

I wanted the Warden's bear to be stronger for what it is, the reliability of the ultimate having an immovability buff is nice, but not what players asked for in terms of the Warden's crap DPS. It's like giving "hush money", eventually it comes back to you.

I can't say much in regards to other classes, but I have made and been apart of countless discussions on improving the Sorcerer's; Twilight Tormentor, Clannfear's scaling, bound armour having an active, having stamina morphs to unused existing morphs, and so on. I am not asking for unreasonable buffs, just more variety and functionality to game-play and play-styles...

Shadzilla · October 2017

SirMewser wrote: »

PTS is dead in EU, why even be apart of a test when we have no influence in our responses?

We are what's being tested, responsively, that is the impression I'm under. ZoS has already claimed to have statistics on data and maybe that's what they are trusting more than us... Thing is, statistics doesn't calculate values that don't exist, such as player interest. There has been countless times each and every PTS where players said they don't like the change, changes made and then left partially functioning. This is where motivation of player interest comes in, if there is no response or reason to, then there is no incentive.
Why go on the PTS to give feedback on content if it doesn't lead to anything?

If you look at the forum posts that the staff created, you will notice that hovering over the "[Z]" indicates the number of times they responded to that post, you will also notice that in most cases, the "1" reply, is the original post, as if it were made and forgotten despite the pages of replies given to it. When there is more than 1 dev reply, it's only in response of questions regarding to the changes made (regardless if the players wanted to change or not), and why they are "justified" for making the change...

I am not to be implying that Zenimax Online Studio is going downhill, they make a lot of good changes and produce great work... What I am tired of is that they could do better by actually using player feedback, as an example: I am so bored of this game and it roots down to having no new abilities being added to having half of the morphs of my class being questionable. We told them what they can do, and they refuse it. (I doubt they don't read at all...)

I made this discussion to show concern for this issue, remember that PTS is for Public Test Server, we are the community and have a voice, there are some really good people here that only want the game we care for to get better.

Got my awesome.

Gnortranermara · October 2017

I understand they can't make everyone happy, and a large portion of complaints are ill-informed and unconstructive. However, they also have dozens of well-informed players begging for the same bug fixes and necessary balance improvements. The only way a customer can influence a company that refuses to provide an acceptable product is to withdraw financial support. In an MMO, class imbalance and bugs make the product unacceptable, and no longer worth paying for. Dozens of my friends have unsubbed recently, just in the past few months, and now I've joined them. Talking and providing feedback isn't getting the job done. I originally planned on subbing to this game until the day the world closes, but I've been pushed out by a dev team that blatantly ignores mountains of feedback and refused to act to fix obvious problems. It's clear that someone in a position of responsibility doesn't care about the quality of their product, and I won't pay another cent until that changes.

Elsonso · October 2017

They listen to us, but they are i n c r e d i b l y stubborn about what they want to do. Player suggestions do not often offer anything compelling enough to cause change.

lucky_Sage · October 2017

i know im at the point where the class i love and put so much time and effort mastering. which has been weakest class for years. which this pts just killed the barely pissible build diversity it had even though it was weaker than meta build for magdk. i put so much time and effort in it i cant do that to another class ounce u do it will be gone aslwell

Mojmir · October 2017

lordrichter wrote: »

They listen to us, but they are i n c r e d i b l y stubborn about what they want to do. Player suggestions do not often offer anything compelling enough to cause change.

Not stubborn, offended, that their playerbase knows more than they do.

Sneaky-Snurr · October 2017

They only listen to the cries of PvP plebs and that affects PvP and PvE as a whole.

Newsflash, ZoS! Those plebs are going to quit sooner or later and you are left with a smaller bank size. Why? Because when you nerf and run the game down, you affect the other majority of players who actually still enjoy the game despite the previous nonsensical nerfs. And when it gets a bit too much in the future, these players who are affected will quit since the game has evolved from fast-paced and intuitive action to heavy-attacking-and-whatever-else-the-combat-change-will-be.

The other set of players who actually DO care for the game and have invested their time, money and mind to test out and generate ideas on how to tackle the game's issues, you ignored whole-heartedly.
The suggestions throughout the years have been discussed and thoroughly thought-out will just collect dust. Just like the copies of the game that will do just that if you Devs don't take care of your playerbase right.

amir412 · October 2017

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

So yeah.. the list could go on all day.
Point is they CLEARLY want DK/templar mains to buy morrowind and play warden.
There are ridicilous amounts of people asking for Dk buffs, and what you got for all that feedback is a petrify nerf.
Enjoy.

Say no more fam.

Beardimus · October 2017

I think ZOS listen too MUCH in particular around nerfs. People whine long enough about something on here (the noisy minority of the minority of players that actually come to the forum) and things get nerfed.

Forum is such a small pocket of players yet the most vocal.

amir412 · October 2017

Beardimus wrote: »

I think ZOS listen too MUCH in particular around nerfs. People whine long enough about something on here (the noisy minority of the minority of players that actually come to the forum) and things get nerfed.

Forum is such a small pocket of players yet the most vocal.

Forums contain the majority of unexperienced player that just want the easy route without investing much time to become good, and thats where the money is.
ZOS listening to them cuz they are the majority, and slapping the old players who really have the knowledge about this game.

Azurya · October 2017

I like this game, first statement!
But
I don´t like the way this game transformed in a market where those who cries loudest get every nerf through they desire!

In general, I didn´t like any of the nerfs, and I DON´T have the feeling that my gaming experience got any better that way!
And I don´t have the feeling that ZOS cares a bit about this! And when I look at my friendslist, I see so many who departed this game just cauze they felt like I do! I play since the open-beta.
This is no longer about optimnizing your gaming-experience, it is just about turning the plug till all is gone, and sadly we must say that no class, no ability, no mundus, no trait, just nothing is left the way it once was, all is screwed up and every new patch ppl are running around, what to do now, cauze nothing works anymore like it did yesterday.

Perhaps this is intended, and wanted, I just don´t see any advantage that way. People seek stability, and we don´t like it to be chased round the bush all the time. We have enough ideas and input, and those are certainly not about screwing classes, races, abilities, and whatever all the time! This is not extending any gaming experience, it devastating your gaming experience, again and again and again.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_KaiSchober @ZOS_Wrobel and @-all-of-us

SaintSubwayy · October 2017

amir412 wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

I think ZOS listen too MUCH in particular around nerfs. People whine long enough about something on here (the noisy minority of the minority of players that actually come to the forum) and things get nerfed.

Forum is such a small pocket of players yet the most vocal.

Forums contain the majority of unexperienced player that just want the easy route without investing much time to become good, and thats where the money is.
ZOS listening to them cuz they are the majority, and slapping the old players who really have the knowledge about this game.

it's always the same: "I want everything by doing nothing"

unfortunately, these ppl check out builds online and see "ohhh Alcast hits for 50k+ with this build" I wana hit that hard too. And then they get hit in the face when they hit for "only 35k" and wonder why they dont do 50k+. Then they go onto the forums and ask for skill buffs, content nerfs without realizing they are the ones who need to learn annimation cancelling, mechanics ect.

maybe thats a minority, but it seems like they are the ppl zos listens to the most.

idk · October 2017

No offense to OP, but reading the forums there is a great amount of disagreement and the forums is generally not considered representative of the player population.

So, who do they listen to? Those that still want Wrath as it is on live or those that agree with the change. Just using that as an example. Also, should Zos implement any change suggested that seems to have support in the forums regardless of the affect in the game?

PTS is mostly about testing the changes and new content to see how they work and an attempt to find some of the bugs. There have been 3 changes, at least, to the new trial as a result of the testing and other changes to some of the quest.

SaintSubwayy · October 2017

idk wrote: »

PTS is mostly about testing the changes and new content to see how they work and an attempt to find some of the bugs. There have been 3 changes, at least, to the new trial as a result of the testing and other changes to some of the quest.

the 3 changes didnt fix the ridiculus NB miniboss when doin HM, its insane in the current state.
it's good they adjusted things but it may be still to strong, but we'll see (shouldnt be for everyone)

im more concerned about the awesomly random RNG on purge in PVE uses. srsly the dot in enrage in Asylum is just stupid af with no reliabale way to purge yourself (except templar).
Also the Hof 1st boss poison is a cancer to purge, sometimes i see 4-6 purges hitting pps besides me and i get no purge and die due to stacking dmg.

It's the small things which seem rather insignifficent that keeps upseting the ppl. I guess everybody would be fine with the wrath nerf if they would have just removed it, but instead replaced it with a completly new passive.

Reverb · October 2017

PTS is a place to test your build against the new changes, that's it. Any time spent there testing content or giving feedback is time wasted. Bugs found and reported will still go live. Feedback on class, skill and weapon changes will go unheeded (except for sorcs. Curse nerf is the only one they've ever reversed direction on due to "overwhelming negative feedback". All other overwhelmingly negative feedback [cough cough Templar stun removal] falls on deaf ears).

And then, they'll sneak some other big change when it goes live, without any warning or testing/feedback opportunity. Like the crit nerf in the last big update.

Given our history with the PTS and devs showing that they're not really interested in our feedback, I'm not surprised it's a ghost town. I haven't wasted any time there this cycle, and aren't likely to for future cycles either.

anitajoneb17_ESO · October 2017

Excuse me, OP, but... who are you ? Who are these "WE" and "US" you're referring to ?

Can you provide some evidence that what YOU think is shared and agreed upon by everyone ? Or at least, by some sort of majority ?

You should keep two things in mind :
- What would make your gameplay more pleasurable is likely to make someone else's gameplay less pleasurable.
- Fun and enjoyment are OUR main goal as players, but to ZOS it's only a mean to a "higher" end, which is to make us as a whole spend more money on the game. To that effect, they try to optimize not only our fun and enjoyment, but also the amount of time we spend in Tamriel, the player-driven activities we create there, and many other things.

TL/DR : what you like is what you like, what's good for the game may be a totally different thing.

Also, EU players are very few currently on PTS, but it's not due to us not being listened to or not bothering anymore, it's just that we've been unlucky this patch, with our first round of templates being deleted, and then our character copy being postponed. Just a technical incident. Not a global rebellion at all.

Countcalorie · October 2017

Hi since Wrobel is unable to answer this question I will answer it on his behalf:
No. *** off.
yours sincerely, all of ZO$.

Joy_Division · October 2017

idk wrote: »

No offense to OP, but reading the forums there is a great amount of disagreement and the forums is generally not considered representative of the player population.

So, who do they listen to? Those that still want Wrath as it is on live or those that agree with the change. Just using that as an example. Also, should Zos implement any change suggested that seems to have support in the forums regardless of the affect in the game?

PTS is mostly about testing the changes and new content to see how they work and an attempt to find some of the bugs. There have been 3 changes, at least, to the new trial as a result of the testing and other changes to some of the quest.

Yes, there is a great amount of disagreement.

That being said, there are some issues where there is a virtual consensus. For example let's go back to Templar Blazing Spear. Even non-templars couldn;t figure out why ZoS nerfed it. It's crazy that ZoS still went through with it.

Xvorg · October 2017

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

I honestly believe ZOS is listening to the playerbase.
Especially to Dk/Templar players.

All your feedback, they did read all of it, and decided to put those into warden.

You wanted working wings,warden got it,
You wanted major expedition,warden got it
Crazy ult regen, warden got it
Major mending, warden got it
a class spammable, warden got it again.

So yeah.. the list could go on all day.
Point is they CLEARLY want DK/templar mains to buy morrowind and play warden.
There are ridicilous amounts of people asking for Dk buffs, and what you got for all that feedback is a petrify nerf.
Enjoy.

Well, some of us have got the message: I'm not gonna buy Morowind until ZoS fixes the game. Then, perhaps I'll give it a try.

Zer0oo · October 2017

First they did basically nothing in the first two weeks of the pts for balance( which is quite poor if you think about that that patch should have been the big balance patch after the morrowind patch) and after 2 weeks we got the only dev feedback in the whole pts.
After I read Wrobel comment on how to "buff" cblast(aka nerf cfrag) and though [snip] that and gave up to give any feedback or do testing on pts.

[Edited to remove profanity]

vovus69 · October 2017

ZOS never listened to anybody. Main problem with all this rebalancing is that they don't have global cool down and people just studied how to click on mouse faster. After some time they nerf the stuff to keep the dps in check. People will study how to click even faster, they nerf again, etc, etc. This is endless loop until you will have zero dps, but will hit the mouse button as rabid rabbit. So, relax and have fun. They will live until they will have best graphics on the block. The same time when MMO with better graphics will come up - they will lose 90% of players in no time.

-vovus

Kilandros · October 2017

amir412 wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

So yeah.. the list could go on all day.
Point is they CLEARLY want DK/templar mains to buy morrowind and play warden.
There are ridicilous amounts of people asking for Dk buffs, and what you got for all that feedback is a petrify nerf.
Enjoy.

Say no more fam.

lol rip. On the bright side, if the playerbase drops enough revenue will decline even with more CS offerings, so eventually ZOS upper management will start replacing Developers if pops continue to drop.

vovus69 · October 2017

The part of the problem that they fired original devs. Current ones are afraid to touch the game engine, hence a lot of small cosmetic changes or layers on top of broken game mechanics.

-vovus

DeHei · October 2017

We see this actually:

- A big difference between DPS from classes
- A big difference between DPS from stamina and magickabuilds! Only on range is magicka DPS better then stamina DPS..
- Warden and Templar as best healer; but you just need 1 templar and 1 warden in trialgroups for the buffs they could give. It really doent matter anymore which role they have, cause healingstaffabilities are good enough for all situations!
- DK and Warden are the best tanks; Templar can go this role too, but they dont have really good options for groupplay.. But in real nearly all can go as tank just with using 1H+Shield abilities..
- In PvP we have 2 superior classes: Nighgblades and sorcs since 2 years, but nothing happen to balance other classes. Consequence was that most DKs and templar went to go tanky.. Now we have this offensivebuilds from superior classes and tanky *** with permablock...

- best trialsetup actually would be 1-2 templar (heal prefered or 1 stamina DD), 2-3 DK (tank & stamina DD), 1-2 warden (offtank or heal), 2-3 Sorcs (1-2 magicka DD and 1-2 stamina DD) and 3-5 nightblades (Stamina DD & magicka DD); A good setup hast 6 meleespots and 6 rangespots... i would prefer: 2 templarheal, 1 DK tank and 1 stamDK, 1wardenofftank, 1 stamsorc & 2 magickasorcs, 2 stamnightblades & 2 magickanightblades. This would be on the best setups for trials because of missing balance!

Kilandros · October 2017

vovus69 wrote: »

The part of the problem that they fired original devs. Current ones are afraid to touch the game engine, hence a lot of small cosmetic changes or layers on top of broken game mechanics.

-vovus

They fired the original Devs so they could start outsourcing most of their coding to third-party contractors. Now most of the Developers are more akin to project managements than actual coders.

idk · October 2017

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

idk wrote: »

PTS is mostly about testing the changes and new content to see how they work and an attempt to find some of the bugs. There have been 3 changes, at least, to the new trial as a result of the testing and other changes to some of the quest.

the 3 changes didnt fix the ridiculus NB miniboss when doin HM, its insane in the current state.
it's good they adjusted things but it may be still to strong, but we'll see (shouldnt be for everyone)

im more concerned about the [snip] RNG on purge in PVE uses. srsly the dot in enrage in Asylum is just stupid af with no reliabale way to purge yourself (except templar).
Also the Hof 1st boss poison is a cancer to purge, sometimes i see 4-6 purges hitting pps besides me and i get no purge and die due to stacking dmg.

It's the small things which seem rather insignifficent that keeps upseting the ppl. I guess everybody would be fine with the wrath nerf if they would have just removed it, but instead replaced it with a completly new passive.

If your talking about the mini boss alone, yes it's more challenging than the first week the PTS was out but very doable. The strat changed.

Essentially you cannot stand in the mini bosses AoE so the boss must be moved and moved in a pattern from one side to the other and return to the starting location. Having any melee on the opposite side of the adds and ranged grouped together since they have to move as well.

It's not hard, just no longer a stack and burn as it was. I expect we are talking about vet.

@SaintSubwayy

[Edited for quote]

reiverx · October 2017

Guys, they can't do everything.

They have some serious internal debates going on about the shade of blue for a future Crown Store rug.