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Resto Ult VS Warden Trees
NyassaV
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The only reason I didn't complain about Warden trees much was because of Resto Ult. 90 ult is laughable where as Resto gets moved up to 125 where it sorta makes a difference. Either Resto cost needs to go down to 115 or trees needs another increase too 100. The point is to have a low cost, so if we need to change something remove the huge amount of healing done.Totally not P2W
Flawless Conqueror ~ Grand Overlord
She/Her ~ PC/NA | I record things for fun and for info
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DeHei✭✭✭✭✭Yeah wardenult need increased cost like 150? Compare this really nice ult with that templarhealingult... templar cant do anything else and are focustarget, because 100 meter far away guys will be blended from this bright as more as from the sun!
Really a bad joke.. or just make it less powerful! This isnt balance, but a good start...DeHei - EP Magicka Templar AllrounderDe Hei(Youtube)6 -
WrathOfInnos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@DeHei Yeah, the Templar healing ultimate is terrible. Why not do something to make it useful rather than driving the warden ultimate into equal uselessness? If the Templar ultimate was not channeled so other skills could be used, or provided a unique group buff (5-10s major berserk for up to 12 group members?) I bet it would see some use.6 -
Dyride✭✭✭✭✭The only reason I didn't complain about Warden trees much was because of Resto Ult. 90 ult is laughable where as Resto gets moved up to 125 where it sorta makes a difference. Either Resto cost needs to go down to 115 or trees needs another increase too 100. The point is to have a low cost, so if we need to change something remove the huge amount of healing done.Totally not P2W
Warden ult doesn't give Major Protection AND Major Force. Resto Ult is very strong, even considering the cost increase.V Є H Є M Є И C Є
Revenge of the Bear
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#FreeArgonia6 -
SodanTok✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭So, you werent complaining when resto with Major Protection/Force (also following the caster) was just 25 ult more expensive, but now that trees are worse by 33% it is time to complain, because resto costs 35 ult more?0 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The only reason I didn't complain about Warden trees much was because of Resto Ult. 90 ult is laughable where as Resto gets moved up to 125 where it sorta makes a difference. Either Resto cost needs to go down to 115 or trees needs another increase too 100. The point is to have a low cost, so if we need to change something remove the huge amount of healing done.Totally not P2W
Warden ult doesn't give Major Protection AND Major Force. Resto Ult is very strong, even considering the cost increase.
Yea, major force needs to go or be reduced to minor force. It felt weird that two major offensive/defensive buffs existed at the same time with no drawbacks aside from single target/slotting resto staff.Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual0 -
DeHei✭✭✭✭✭The only reason I didn't complain about Warden trees much was because of Resto Ult. 90 ult is laughable where as Resto gets moved up to 125 where it sorta makes a difference. Either Resto cost needs to go down to 115 or trees needs another increase too 100. The point is to have a low cost, so if we need to change something remove the huge amount of healing done.Totally not P2W
Warden ult doesn't give Major Protection AND Major Force. Resto Ult is very strong, even considering the cost increase.
You forget, that the wardenult heals 6 people and the restorationstaffult just 1. In comparison with templarult the wardenult has an healingeffectivness like 150+x% because you have lower ultimatecosts and can cast other skills bacause you dont need to channel (I will never understand why Zos dont give up this channeled ***). In total the effectivness is around 200%!...
The healingeffectivness from wardenult in comparison to restorationstaffult is over 300%. The total effectivness, when we look to all buffs is 200%... This is just a joke and no balance!
The wardenult is nearly spammable anymore in PvP and need much higher increased costs! Templarult should not have this channel anymore or the possibility to move with it... restorationstaff is fine with 125 ultimate..
A fair ultimatecost for wardenult is something similar to bad swarm 150 ultimatecost!Edited by DeHei on October 16, 2017 5:55PMDeHei - EP Magicka Templar AllrounderDe Hei(Youtube)2 -
Lexxypwns✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭The only reason I didn't complain about Warden trees much was because of Resto Ult. 90 ult is laughable where as Resto gets moved up to 125 where it sorta makes a difference. Either Resto cost needs to go down to 115 or trees needs another increase too 100. The point is to have a low cost, so if we need to change something remove the huge amount of healing done.Totally not P2W
Warden ult doesn't give Major Protection AND Major Force. Resto Ult is very strong, even considering the cost increase.
It does offer up to 60 heal ticks whereas resto ult give a maximum of 6 healing ticks. About 8x the healing potential is enough to make up for the major buffs imo.
As soon as there's 3 people present Healing thicket becomes much more effective than resto ultimate, outputting significantly more than double the healing.
We can cherry pick arguments all day, but these two ults should be closer together in cost than they are, one way or another.Edited by Lexxypwns on October 16, 2017 6:05PM1 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The only reason I didn't complain about Warden trees much was because of Resto Ult. 90 ult is laughable where as Resto gets moved up to 125 where it sorta makes a difference. Either Resto cost needs to go down to 115 or trees needs another increase too 100. The point is to have a low cost, so if we need to change something remove the huge amount of healing done.Totally not P2W
Warden ult doesn't give Major Protection AND Major Force. Resto Ult is very strong, even considering the cost increase.
It does offer up to 60 heal ticks whereas resto ult give a maximum of 6 healing ticks. About 8x the healing potential is enough to make up for the major buffs imo.
As soon as there's 3 people present Healing thicket becomes much more effective than resto ultimate, outputting significantly more than double the healing.
We can cherry pick arguments all day, but these two ults should be closer together in cost than they are, one way or another.
Ones a smart heal, one isn't though.
Resto ult also heals a lot more per tick, even more now that wardn got ticks got nerfed.
Honestly they both need to be increased to 150. Broken cheap skills.PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...1 -
DeHei✭✭✭✭✭The only reason I didn't complain about Warden trees much was because of Resto Ult. 90 ult is laughable where as Resto gets moved up to 125 where it sorta makes a difference. Either Resto cost needs to go down to 115 or trees needs another increase too 100. The point is to have a low cost, so if we need to change something remove the huge amount of healing done.Totally not P2W
Warden ult doesn't give Major Protection AND Major Force. Resto Ult is very strong, even considering the cost increase.
Yea, major force needs to go or be reduced to minor force. It felt weird that two major offensive/defensive buffs existed at the same time with no drawbacks aside from single target/slotting resto staff.
You guys should stop thinking, that only focusdamage works fine... Against this the restorationstaffult is a perfect counter, true. Against aoedamage the templar- and wardenult are much stronger. The restorationstaffult can never heal the damage just from 1 destroult against 6 targets... When you have trouble with restorationstaffult, its maybe not too strong... maybe you guys choose the wrong tactic...
Just when i think about the incapult, my only counter was the restorationstaffult. Now it has 2 times increased costs...
Buff 2 classes and this offensiv *** same time while you nerf all other classes and defensiv skills... its horrorble frustrating...
Then finally after a lot of frustration we need to read comments like this... Go play Counterstrike if you want to oneshit other players and if you dont want skilled & tactically fights!
Edited by DeHei on October 16, 2017 6:15PMDeHei - EP Magicka Templar AllrounderDe Hei(Youtube)0 -
DeHei✭✭✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »The only reason I didn't complain about Warden trees much was because of Resto Ult. 90 ult is laughable where as Resto gets moved up to 125 where it sorta makes a difference. Either Resto cost needs to go down to 115 or trees needs another increase too 100. The point is to have a low cost, so if we need to change something remove the huge amount of healing done.Totally not P2W
Warden ult doesn't give Major Protection AND Major Force. Resto Ult is very strong, even considering the cost increase.
It does offer up to 60 heal ticks whereas resto ult give a maximum of 6 healing ticks. About 8x the healing potential is enough to make up for the major buffs imo.
As soon as there's 3 people present Healing thicket becomes much more effective than resto ultimate, outputting significantly more than double the healing.
We can cherry pick arguments all day, but these two ults should be closer together in cost than they are, one way or another.
Ones a smart heal, one isn't though.
Resto ult also heals a lot more per tick, even more now that wardn got ticks got nerfed.
Honestly they both need to be increased to 150. Broken cheap skills.
Then you should test it... It just heals 1 player in 1 sec! This heal is strong like Honor of the dead from Templar, but nothing more!DeHei - EP Magicka Templar AllrounderDe Hei(Youtube)1 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The only reason I didn't complain about Warden trees much was because of Resto Ult. 90 ult is laughable where as Resto gets moved up to 125 where it sorta makes a difference. Either Resto cost needs to go down to 115 or trees needs another increase too 100. The point is to have a low cost, so if we need to change something remove the huge amount of healing done.Totally not P2W
Warden ult doesn't give Major Protection AND Major Force. Resto Ult is very strong, even considering the cost increase.
Yea, major force needs to go or be reduced to minor force. It felt weird that two major offensive/defensive buffs existed at the same time with no drawbacks aside from single target/slotting resto staff.
You guys should stop thinking, that only focusdamage works fine... Against this the restorationstaffult is a perfect counter, true. Against aoedamage the templar- and wardenult are much stronger. The restorationstaffult can never heal the damage just from 1 destroult against 6 targets... When you have trouble with restorationstaffult, its maybe not too strong... maybe you guys choose the wrong tactic...
Just when i think about the incapult, my only counter was the restorationstaffult. Now it has 2 times increased costs...
Buff 2 classes and this offensiv *** same time while you nerf all other classes and defensiv skills... its horrorble frustrating...
Then finally after a lot of frustration we need to read comments like this... Go play Counterstrike if you want to oneshit other players and if you dont want skilled & tactically fights!
We can only judge what ZoS tells us is the intent. Given that resto is basically a defensive/support line, having both Major Protection and Major force on a single target ability is clunky and weird. I think it should be a strong defense and not give you access to major force. in fact, it should grant crit resists to players around you (but that might require trans to receive a major/minor buff and this resto ulti would get a similar buff to discourage crit resist stacking.)
And given how zos has forced other classes to pick separate morphs with separate intentions, it didnt make sense that the resto ultimate was too low of cost but also gave two powerful buffs. I like it as a strong defense, granting major protection where other sources of that buff are too limited for application.
and if you compare to s+b ulti, that spell too should get its effects split across two separate morphs. But the cost should remain as on live and the block portion should be changed to make your block cheaper instead of granting a resource-less block.
But i see why they increased the duration instead; easy fix.Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual0 -
Lexxypwns✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »The only reason I didn't complain about Warden trees much was because of Resto Ult. 90 ult is laughable where as Resto gets moved up to 125 where it sorta makes a difference. Either Resto cost needs to go down to 115 or trees needs another increase too 100. The point is to have a low cost, so if we need to change something remove the huge amount of healing done.Totally not P2W
Warden ult doesn't give Major Protection AND Major Force. Resto Ult is very strong, even considering the cost increase.
It does offer up to 60 heal ticks whereas resto ult give a maximum of 6 healing ticks. About 8x the healing potential is enough to make up for the major buffs imo.
As soon as there's 3 people present Healing thicket becomes much more effective than resto ultimate, outputting significantly more than double the healing.
We can cherry pick arguments all day, but these two ults should be closer together in cost than they are, one way or another.
Ones a smart heal, one isn't though.
Resto ult also heals a lot more per tick, even more now that wardn got ticks got nerfed.
Honestly they both need to be increased to 150. Broken cheap skills.
The difference between a 7k crit tic and a 9k crit tic is rendered irrelevant by the fact that trees can proc major mending on itself, therefore giving a much more similar heal than you're claiming. It also restores 250 magika or stamina per second to the faster for 10 seconds and increases all healing just for being slotted. In 1 second, at 5k per heal tic, trees can heal 30k damage/sec whereas even at 10k per tick resto will never reach those levels
Also, trees is a smart heal, it always will heal the 6 lowest health allies inside it. Not to mention you don't need a resto staff to run it so you can turtle up with block during a healing thicket and still have a more offensive weapon choice front barEdited by Lexxypwns on October 16, 2017 7:28PM1 -
DeHei✭✭✭✭✭The only reason I didn't complain about Warden trees much was because of Resto Ult. 90 ult is laughable where as Resto gets moved up to 125 where it sorta makes a difference. Either Resto cost needs to go down to 115 or trees needs another increase too 100. The point is to have a low cost, so if we need to change something remove the huge amount of healing done.Totally not P2W
Warden ult doesn't give Major Protection AND Major Force. Resto Ult is very strong, even considering the cost increase.
Yea, major force needs to go or be reduced to minor force. It felt weird that two major offensive/defensive buffs existed at the same time with no drawbacks aside from single target/slotting resto staff.
You guys should stop thinking, that only focusdamage works fine... Against this the restorationstaffult is a perfect counter, true. Against aoedamage the templar- and wardenult are much stronger. The restorationstaffult can never heal the damage just from 1 destroult against 6 targets... When you have trouble with restorationstaffult, its maybe not too strong... maybe you guys choose the wrong tactic...
Just when i think about the incapult, my only counter was the restorationstaffult. Now it has 2 times increased costs...
Buff 2 classes and this offensiv *** same time while you nerf all other classes and defensiv skills... its horrorble frustrating...
Then finally after a lot of frustration we need to read comments like this... Go play Counterstrike if you want to oneshit other players and if you dont want skilled & tactically fights!
We can only judge what ZoS tells us is the intent. Given that resto is basically a defensive/support line, having both Major Protection and Major force on a single target ability is clunky and weird. I think it should be a strong defense and not give you access to major force. in fact, it should grant crit resists to players around you (but that might require trans to receive a major/minor buff and this resto ulti would get a similar buff to discourage crit resist stacking.)
And given how zos has forced other classes to pick separate morphs with separate intentions, it didnt make sense that the resto ultimate was too low of cost but also gave two powerful buffs. I like it as a strong defense, granting major protection where other sources of that buff are too limited for application.
and if you compare to s+b ulti, that spell too should get its effects split across two separate morphs. But the cost should remain as on live and the block portion should be changed to make your block cheaper instead of granting a resource-less block.
But i see why they increased the duration instead; easy fix.
The kritbuff isnt very strong, so we dont would miss it...DeHei - EP Magicka Templar AllrounderDe Hei(Youtube)0 -
NyassaV✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I'm content to remove the major force to keep it purely defensive but if that happens the cost needs to go down, Resto is an oh *** button so lets not nullify thatFlawless Conqueror ~ Grand OverlordShe/Her ~ PC/NA | I record things for fun and for info0 -
Gilliamtherogue✭✭✭✭✭
✭125 ulti for a Breath of Life heal tick every 1s for 5s (up to 10 if solo) WITH MOBILE Major Protection AND Force is pretty stupid. One of the most over loaded ultimates in the game.
Looking at other ultimates that have Major Protection;
Consuming Darkness & Morphs - Major Protection for up to 6 players for 16 seconds in a stationary setting. 200 ulti cost. Only heals if user is low health and prompts a synergy. One more doubles Major prot on caster, other does pitiful damage. Can be Negated.
Sleet Storm & Morphs - Major Protection for caster and up to 5 players for 8 seconds in a mobile setting. 200 ulti cost. Deals pitiful damage. One morph stuns if targets are hit consecutively by the damage portion (6 nearest targets, will update if those 6 nearest targets change, but will not actively stun other targets), the other passively adds 8% Magicka to the caster for slotting. Cannot be Negated.
So we have two settings of Major Protection having twice as much ulti cost as live (100 on live, 125 when CWC goes live), with no Major Force or massive healing enabled. The only form of Major Protection that lasts longer is a stationary setting that either does pathetic damage or gives the caster some more mitigation, while still being vulnerable to negation.
Suggestions;
Option A -Increase cost of Light's Champion to 175 (leave Panacea and Lifebringer at 125). This gives an option to have buffs AND immense healing but at the cost of a longer pay out (have to build up extra ulti), OR a very solid defensive heal that saves some global cooldowns and Magicka.
Option B - Remove Major Protection completely from Light's Champion. Leave ulti cost at 125 for all morphs. This leaves Light's Champion as a strong "Oh [snip]" button with its redonkulous healing, while also adding a distinction of group utility vs selfish saved resources.
Option C -Change Major Protection and Force to Minor Protection and Force on Light's Champion. Leave ulti cost at 125 for all morphs. This brings down raw mitigation of the skill while still retaining a chunk of it, but also takes away from some of the offensive power of Major Force. This is the poorest balance option in my opinion, as Major Force is only 5% more CHD compared to Minor Force, and it also applies to Healing.
[Edited to remove profanity]Edited by ZOS_KatP on October 17, 2017 4:52PMOld member of The Order of Mundus, Mostly Harmless, Hostile, and Genesis Elite. Avid theorycrafter. Herald to competitive stamina DPS pre 1.5. How far we've come!
Have questions? Send me a message on the forums or my other social media. Seeing people learn is my dream and passion.
Guides and other fun videos at https://youtube.com/c/gilliamtherogue7 -
DeHei✭✭✭✭✭Gilliamtherogue wrote: »125 ulti for a Breath of Life heal tick every 1s for 5s (up to 10 if solo) WITH MOBILE Major Protection AND Force is pretty stupid. One of the most over loaded ultimates in the game.
Looking at other ultimates that have Major Protection;
Consuming Darkness & Morphs - Major Protection for up to 6 players for 16 seconds in a stationary setting. 200 ulti cost. Only heals if user is low health and prompts a synergy. One more doubles Major prot on caster, other does pitiful damage. Can be Negated.
Sleet Storm & Morphs - Major Protection for caster and up to 5 players for 8 seconds in a mobile setting. 200 ulti cost. Deals pitiful damage. One morph stuns if targets are hit consecutively by the damage portion (6 nearest targets, will update if those 6 nearest targets change, but will not actively stun other targets), the other passively adds 8% Magicka to the caster for slotting. Cannot be Negated.
So we have two settings of Major Protection having twice as much ulti cost as live (100 on live, 125 when CWC goes live), with no Major Force or massive healing enabled. The only form of Major Protection that lasts longer is a stationary setting that either does pathetic damage or gives the caster some more mitigation, while still being vulnerable to negation.
Suggestions;
Option A -Increase cost of Light's Champion to 175 (leave Panacea and Lifebringer at 125). This gives an option to have buffs AND immense healing but at the cost of a longer pay out (have to build up extra ulti), OR a very solid defensive heal that saves some global cooldowns and Magicka.
Option B - Remove Major Protection completely from Light's Champion. Leave ulti cost at 125 for all morphs. This leaves Light's Champion as a strong "Oh [snip]" button with its redonkulous healing, while also adding a distinction of group utility vs selfish saved resources.
Option C -Change Major Protection and Force to Minor Protection and Force on Light's Champion. Leave ulti cost at 125 for all morphs. This brings down raw mitigation of the skill while still retaining a chunk of it, but also takes away from some of the offensive power of Major Force. This is the poorest balance option in my opinion, as Major Force is only 5% more CHD compared to Minor Force, and it also applies to Healing.
When we look on the other hand:
Incap from nightblades cost half of ultimate costs and its not overloaded?
We have allready not much good working defensive ultimates... why you really want to destroy them? Maybe you need to start your incap & will of assassination combo 2x times instead of just 1???
[Edited for quote]Edited by ZOS_KatP on October 17, 2017 4:53PMDeHei - EP Magicka Templar AllrounderDe Hei(Youtube)1 -
Subversus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Gilliamtherogue wrote: »125 ulti for a Breath of Life heal tick every 1s for 5s (up to 10 if solo) WITH MOBILE Major Protection AND Force is pretty stupid. One of the most over loaded ultimates in the game.
Looking at other ultimates that have Major Protection;
Consuming Darkness & Morphs - Major Protection for up to 6 players for 16 seconds in a stationary setting. 200 ulti cost. Only heals if user is low health and prompts a synergy. One more doubles Major prot on caster, other does pitiful damage. Can be Negated.
Sleet Storm & Morphs - Major Protection for caster and up to 5 players for 8 seconds in a mobile setting. 200 ulti cost. Deals pitiful damage. One morph stuns if targets are hit consecutively by the damage portion (6 nearest targets, will update if those 6 nearest targets change, but will not actively stun other targets), the other passively adds 8% Magicka to the caster for slotting. Cannot be Negated.
So we have two settings of Major Protection having twice as much ulti cost as live (100 on live, 125 when CWC goes live), with no Major Force or massive healing enabled. The only form of Major Protection that lasts longer is a stationary setting that either does pathetic damage or gives the caster some more mitigation, while still being vulnerable to negation.
Suggestions;
Option A -Increase cost of Light's Champion to 175 (leave Panacea and Lifebringer at 125). This gives an option to have buffs AND immense healing but at the cost of a longer pay out (have to build up extra ulti), OR a very solid defensive heal that saves some global cooldowns and Magicka.
Option B - Remove Major Protection completely from Light's Champion. Leave ulti cost at 125 for all morphs. This leaves Light's Champion as a strong "Oh [snip]" button with its redonkulous healing, while also adding a distinction of group utility vs selfish saved resources.
Option C -Change Major Protection and Force to Minor Protection and Force on Light's Champion. Leave ulti cost at 125 for all morphs. This brings down raw mitigation of the skill while still retaining a chunk of it, but also takes away from some of the offensive power of Major Force. This is the poorest balance option in my opinion, as Major Force is only 5% more CHD compared to Minor Force, and it also applies to Healing.
No offense but you should stick to pve theorycrafting
[Edited for quote]Edited by ZOS_KatP on October 17, 2017 4:53PM3 -
SanTii.92✭✭✭✭✭
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Mind at least explaining your reasoning?The only reason I didn't complain about Warden trees much was because of Resto Ult. 90 ult is laughable where as Resto gets moved up to 125 where it sorta makes a difference. Either Resto cost needs to go down to 115 or trees needs another increase too 100. The point is to have a low cost, so if we need to change something remove the huge amount of healing done.Totally not P2WWhen the snows fall and the white winds blow,
the lone wolf dies, but the pack survives.
Arg | Pc Na | Factionless Mag Warden.0 -
Wreuntzylla✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭My guess is it's wardens that want the increased ulti cost. In other than small scale against good players, I can have 150ult before the tree is done. Just need one person lobbing projectiles.0 -
NyassaV✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Gilliamtherogue wrote: »125 ulti for a Breath of Life heal tick every 1s for 5s (up to 10 if solo) WITH MOBILE Major Protection AND Force is pretty stupid. One of the most over loaded ultimates in the game.
Looking at other ultimates that have Major Protection;
Consuming Darkness & Morphs - Major Protection for up to 6 players for 16 seconds in a stationary setting. 200 ulti cost. Only heals if user is low health and prompts a synergy. One more doubles Major prot on caster, other does pitiful damage. Can be Negated.
Sleet Storm & Morphs - Major Protection for caster and up to 5 players for 8 seconds in a mobile setting. 200 ulti cost. Deals pitiful damage. One morph stuns if targets are hit consecutively by the damage portion (6 nearest targets, will update if those 6 nearest targets change, but will not actively stun other targets), the other passively adds 8% Magicka to the caster for slotting. Cannot be Negated.
So we have two settings of Major Protection having twice as much ulti cost as live (100 on live, 125 when CWC goes live), with no Major Force or massive healing enabled. The only form of Major Protection that lasts longer is a stationary setting that either does pathetic damage or gives the caster some more mitigation, while still being vulnerable to negation.
Suggestions;
Option A -Increase cost of Light's Champion to 175 (leave Panacea and Lifebringer at 125). This gives an option to have buffs AND immense healing but at the cost of a longer pay out (have to build up extra ulti), OR a very solid defensive heal that saves some global cooldowns and Magicka.
Option B - Remove Major Protection completely from Light's Champion. Leave ulti cost at 125 for all morphs. This leaves Light's Champion as a strong "Oh [snip]" button with its redonkulous healing, while also adding a distinction of group utility vs selfish saved resources.
Option C -Change Major Protection and Force to Minor Protection and Force on Light's Champion. Leave ulti cost at 125 for all morphs. This brings down raw mitigation of the skill while still retaining a chunk of it, but also takes away from some of the offensive power of Major Force. This is the poorest balance option in my opinion, as Major Force is only 5% more CHD compared to Minor Force, and it also applies to Healing.
No offense but you should stick to pve theorycrafting
You're funny, he isn't wrong
[Edited for quote]Edited by ZOS_KatP on October 17, 2017 9:31PMFlawless Conqueror ~ Grand OverlordShe/Her ~ PC/NA | I record things for fun and for info1 -
Gilliamtherogue✭✭✭✭✭
✭Gilliamtherogue wrote: »125 ulti for a Breath of Life heal tick every 1s for 5s (up to 10 if solo) WITH MOBILE Major Protection AND Force is pretty stupid. One of the most over loaded ultimates in the game.
Looking at other ultimates that have Major Protection;
Consuming Darkness & Morphs - Major Protection for up to 6 players for 16 seconds in a stationary setting. 200 ulti cost. Only heals if user is low health and prompts a synergy. One more doubles Major prot on caster, other does pitiful damage. Can be Negated.
Sleet Storm & Morphs - Major Protection for caster and up to 5 players for 8 seconds in a mobile setting. 200 ulti cost. Deals pitiful damage. One morph stuns if targets are hit consecutively by the damage portion (6 nearest targets, will update if those 6 nearest targets change, but will not actively stun other targets), the other passively adds 8% Magicka to the caster for slotting. Cannot be Negated.
So we have two settings of Major Protection having twice as much ulti cost as live (100 on live, 125 when CWC goes live), with no Major Force or massive healing enabled. The only form of Major Protection that lasts longer is a stationary setting that either does pathetic damage or gives the caster some more mitigation, while still being vulnerable to negation.
Suggestions;
Option A -Increase cost of Light's Champion to 175 (leave Panacea and Lifebringer at 125). This gives an option to have buffs AND immense healing but at the cost of a longer pay out (have to build up extra ulti), OR a very solid defensive heal that saves some global cooldowns and Magicka.
Option B - Remove Major Protection completely from Light's Champion. Leave ulti cost at 125 for all morphs. This leaves Light's Champion as a strong "Oh [snip]" button with its redonkulous healing, while also adding a distinction of group utility vs selfish saved resources.
Option C -Change Major Protection and Force to Minor Protection and Force on Light's Champion. Leave ulti cost at 125 for all morphs. This brings down raw mitigation of the skill while still retaining a chunk of it, but also takes away from some of the offensive power of Major Force. This is the poorest balance option in my opinion, as Major Force is only 5% more CHD compared to Minor Force, and it also applies to Healing.
When we look on the other hand:
Incap from nightblades cost half of ultimate costs and its not overloaded?
We have allready not much good working defensive ultimates... why you really want to destroy them? Maybe you need to start your incap & will of assassination combo 2x times instead of just 1???
I never said Incap wasn't over performing? This isn't a topic that said "how do we balance the entire game via ultimates". I merely commented that Resto Ulti provides an overloaded amount of power for what it costs compared to other ultimates in the game, especially after Secluded Grove got nerfed. That's what the topic was about, no?
[Edited for quote]Edited by ZOS_KatP on October 17, 2017 9:30PMOld member of The Order of Mundus, Mostly Harmless, Hostile, and Genesis Elite. Avid theorycrafter. Herald to competitive stamina DPS pre 1.5. How far we've come!
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Gilliamtherogue✭✭✭✭✭
✭Gilliamtherogue wrote: »125 ulti for a Breath of Life heal tick every 1s for 5s (up to 10 if solo) WITH MOBILE Major Protection AND Force is pretty stupid. One of the most over loaded ultimates in the game.
Looking at other ultimates that have Major Protection;
Consuming Darkness & Morphs - Major Protection for up to 6 players for 16 seconds in a stationary setting. 200 ulti cost. Only heals if user is low health and prompts a synergy. One more doubles Major prot on caster, other does pitiful damage. Can be Negated.
Sleet Storm & Morphs - Major Protection for caster and up to 5 players for 8 seconds in a mobile setting. 200 ulti cost. Deals pitiful damage. One morph stuns if targets are hit consecutively by the damage portion (6 nearest targets, will update if those 6 nearest targets change, but will not actively stun other targets), the other passively adds 8% Magicka to the caster for slotting. Cannot be Negated.
So we have two settings of Major Protection having twice as much ulti cost as live (100 on live, 125 when CWC goes live), with no Major Force or massive healing enabled. The only form of Major Protection that lasts longer is a stationary setting that either does pathetic damage or gives the caster some more mitigation, while still being vulnerable to negation.
Suggestions;
Option A -Increase cost of Light's Champion to 175 (leave Panacea and Lifebringer at 125). This gives an option to have buffs AND immense healing but at the cost of a longer pay out (have to build up extra ulti), OR a very solid defensive heal that saves some global cooldowns and Magicka.
Option B - Remove Major Protection completely from Light's Champion. Leave ulti cost at 125 for all morphs. This leaves Light's Champion as a strong "Oh [snip]" button with its redonkulous healing, while also adding a distinction of group utility vs selfish saved resources.
Option C -Change Major Protection and Force to Minor Protection and Force on Light's Champion. Leave ulti cost at 125 for all morphs. This brings down raw mitigation of the skill while still retaining a chunk of it, but also takes away from some of the offensive power of Major Force. This is the poorest balance option in my opinion, as Major Force is only 5% more CHD compared to Minor Force, and it also applies to Healing.
No offense but you should stick to pve theorycrafting
So no rebutal to the facts I pointed out? Anyone with eyes and understanding can see Resto Ult is very overloaded to other similar ultimates. It doesn't matter what kind of player you are to see that, as long as you have half a brain.
[Edited for quote]Edited by ZOS_KatP on October 17, 2017 9:30PMOld member of The Order of Mundus, Mostly Harmless, Hostile, and Genesis Elite. Avid theorycrafter. Herald to competitive stamina DPS pre 1.5. How far we've come!
Have questions? Send me a message on the forums or my other social media. Seeing people learn is my dream and passion.
Guides and other fun videos at https://youtube.com/c/gilliamtherogue4 -
sly007✭✭✭✭The only reason I didn't complain about Warden trees much was because of Resto Ult. 90 ult is laughable where as Resto gets moved up to 125 where it sorta makes a difference. Either Resto cost needs to go down to 115 or trees needs another increase too 100. The point is to have a low cost, so if we need to change something remove the huge amount of healing done.Totally not P2W
Warden ult doesn't give Major Protection AND Major Force. Resto Ult is very strong, even considering the cost increase.
It does offer up to 60 heal ticks whereas resto ult give a maximum of 6 healing ticks. About 8x the healing potential is enough to make up for the major buffs imo.
As soon as there's 3 people present Healing thicket becomes much more effective than resto ultimate, outputting significantly more than double the healing.
We can cherry pick arguments all day, but these two ults should be closer together in cost than they are, one way or another.
Wow, yea, let's make a class skill just as good a weapon skill. Right. Let's give dizzy swing major fracture and make it instant cast. I wouldn't mind a cost increase for that buff. While we are at it, lets give the sword and board absorb skill the ability to reflect up to 4 projectiles with 1 cast and reduce the duration to 6 seconds.
My point is that class defining skills should be better than weapon skills. Let's not start asking for more nerfd to an ultimate that has already been nerfed. 33% less healing plus increased cost.0 -
NyassaV✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »All NB skills need a cost increase and a nerf to damage
Triggered Nah can we leave NB where it is for once. It actually requires some skill (unless a oneshot build) and I'd like to keep it that wayFlawless Conqueror ~ Grand OverlordShe/Her ~ PC/NA | I record things for fun and for info0 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »All NB skills need a cost increase and a nerf to damage
Triggered Nah can we leave NB where it is for once. It actually requires some skill (unless a oneshot build) and I'd like to keep it that way
Still clearly overloaded, over performing with all Ults costing less and doing more than all other classes. Most definitely OP and need of nerf0 -
Gilliamtherogue✭✭✭✭✭
✭Waffennacht wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »All NB skills need a cost increase and a nerf to damage
Triggered Nah can we leave NB where it is for once. It actually requires some skill (unless a oneshot build) and I'd like to keep it that way
Still clearly overloaded, over performing with all Ults costing less and doing more than all other classes. Most definitely OP and need of nerf
Standard of Might would like a word with you.Old member of The Order of Mundus, Mostly Harmless, Hostile, and Genesis Elite. Avid theorycrafter. Herald to competitive stamina DPS pre 1.5. How far we've come!
Have questions? Send me a message on the forums or my other social media. Seeing people learn is my dream and passion.
Guides and other fun videos at https://youtube.com/c/gilliamtherogue1 -
DeHei✭✭✭✭✭Restorationstaffult should just give the caster major protection only Deleat the kritdamagebuff... then we hold a counter for massive burstdamage from especially nightblades and this ult isnt so strong anymore..
We need this cheap defensive ultimates to react fast against very strong and much cheaper offensive ultimates!
DeHei - EP Magicka Templar AllrounderDe Hei(Youtube)0
