Maintenance for the week of May 4:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – May 4
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – May 4
The maintenance is complete, and the PTS is now back online and patch 12.0.3 is available.
Resto Ult VS Warden Trees
-
DeHei✭✭✭✭✭
What does this has anything to do with thread's topic.Restorationstaffult should just give the caster major protection only Deleat the kritdamagebuff... then we hold a counter for massive burstdamage from especially nightblades and this ult isnt so strong anymore..
We need this cheap defensive ultimates to react fast against very strong and much cheaper offensive ultimates!
There was a time when we didnt have cheap defensive "u cant kill me" ults and PVP was a million times better. If they are going to be "you cant kill me" buttons they should be expensive or have major drawbacks. Thats what promotes skilled gameplay and reaction to what is actually happening. You know its expensive, you think twice before you use it and you make the most out it. When they are cheap they do the exact opposite. There is no thinking or reacting to offensive ults. You just pop them whenever you feel like it cause who cares. 20 seconds later they will be up again.
Yes maybe. But only nightblades have the offensive answer to this defensive ultimates against single targets. Sorcs can go offensiv too in reason of shieldstacking.
What we have as Templar, DK and Warden? Only warden have another ultimate, which works fine defensive. We dont have the balance for some classes... with increasing this defensive ultimstes we buff again this allready superior classes!
For me it looks like *** again. For example Templar dont have just 1 classultimate, which is really useful in all situations.. offensive i go with drawbreaker or soulstrike and defensive with restorationstaffult for PvP...
All classes need better singletarget ultimates like nightblades... only then i would really agree what you said..
Nightblades and sorcs have better burst single target potential because they are designed around burst. They should have more dmg because they lack other things. If you like playing with high single target burst then im sorry but you are playing the wrong class.
NBs and sorcs are the two classes mostly crutching on resto ult. There is a huge difference between playing with or without that ult. A sorc being pressured and almost dying isnt easy to recover. They have the worst self healing capabilities. They cant just heal from zero to full in 2 seconds. But resto ult can do exactly that for them. Taking away resto ult doesnt buff them because you cant heal their burst. If you are better than they are ull outheal it anw. But it is nerfing them hard because it makes it infinitely easier for you to kill them if you outplay them. Some times you are better of using resto ult as ur main ult. Thats how OP it is on sorc.
You are talking about class balance but its impossible to achieve class balance with such abilities/mechanics. Just look at stamDKs. Crutching on stupid mechanics because they have to, they become unkillable tanks and perceived as strong when in fact nothing they do is because of their class.
One of the biggest problems you described here. They have most burst potencial, but also have the highest survivalbility in game, because of good escaps and the reason, that for example the healingstaffskilltree is stronger then the templarskilltree. Everybody have access to it and at same time for example the healingeffects for templar got only nerfed. DKs and Templar atm need to play this tanky ***, because of no diversity. Try to play them offensiv without class escapes... the only thing you can do is for example using the vampire skillline.
But what is that? They should have simply same possibilities for burst, when the "burstclasses" have same options for survivalbility! Then we could start to speak "its a way to become a balanced game, especially in PvP"!!!
A Sorc building towards the class's strengths will be significantly more squishy than a Templar doing the same. If you decide to play a high damage Templar at the cost of defense, that's on you. Ask for changes to your class that will allow for more different playstyles, instead of crying over those classes that already have what you're after.
Definition of the templarclass actually in PvP: A walking dummie in heavy armor and good selfheal!
That is exactly that, what templar are, when i go with META.. i need to jump in in meleerange in the hope to survive it.
I ask since 1 year for good changes to my mainclass, but i only see nerfs or changes from useless skills to similar useless ones like in our actually next update. Nothing what would really change anything...
When i would play META, its one of the most boring gameplays. I dont would be killable in 1vs1, but i just would be able to kill scrubs... If the solution just would be to reroll nightblades and sorcs, then you will see only this 2 classes finally in some years in PvP!Restorationstaffult should just give the caster major protection only Deleat the kritdamagebuff... then we hold a counter for massive burstdamage from especially nightblades and this ult isnt so strong anymore..
We need this cheap defensive ultimates to react fast against very strong and much cheaper offensive ultimates!
There was a time when we didnt have cheap defensive "u cant kill me" ults and PVP was a million times better. If they are going to be "you cant kill me" buttons they should be expensive or have major drawbacks. Thats what promotes skilled gameplay and reaction to what is actually happening. You know its expensive, you think twice before you use it and you make the most out it. When they are cheap they do the exact opposite. There is no thinking or reacting to offensive ults. You just pop them whenever you feel like it cause who cares. 20 seconds later they will be up again.
Yes maybe. But only nightblades have the offensive answer to this defensive ultimates against single targets. Sorcs can go offensiv too in reason of shieldstacking.
What we have as Templar, DK and Warden? Only warden have another ultimate, which works fine defensive. We dont have the balance for some classes... with increasing this defensive ultimstes we buff again this allready superior classes!
For me it looks like *** again. For example Templar dont have just 1 classultimate, which is really useful in all situations.. offensive i go with drawbreaker or soulstrike and defensive with restorationstaffult for PvP...
All classes need better singletarget ultimates like nightblades... only then i would really agree what you said..
Nightblades and sorcs have better burst single target potential because they are designed around burst. They should have more dmg because they lack other things. If you like playing with high single target burst then im sorry but you are playing the wrong class.
NBs and sorcs are the two classes mostly crutching on resto ult. There is a huge difference between playing with or without that ult. A sorc being pressured and almost dying isnt easy to recover. They have the worst self healing capabilities. They cant just heal from zero to full in 2 seconds. But resto ult can do exactly that for them. Taking away resto ult doesnt buff them because you cant heal their burst. If you are better than they are ull outheal it anw. But it is nerfing them hard because it makes it infinitely easier for you to kill them if you outplay them. Some times you are better of using resto ult as ur main ult. Thats how OP it is on sorc.
You are talking about class balance but its impossible to achieve class balance with such abilities/mechanics. Just look at stamDKs. Crutching on stupid mechanics because they have to, they become unkillable tanks and perceived as strong when in fact nothing they do is because of their class.
One of the biggest problems you described here. They have most burst potencial, but also have the highest survivalbility in game, because of good escaps and the reason, that for example the healingstaffskilltree is stronger then the templarskilltree. Everybody have access to it and at same time for example the healingeffects for templar got only nerfed. DKs and Templar atm need to play this tanky ***, because of no diversity. Try to play them offensiv without class escapes... the only thing you can do is for example using the vampire skillline.
But what is that? They should have simply same possibilities for burst, when the "burstclasses" have same options for survivalbility! Then we could start to speak "its a way to become a balanced game, especially in PvP"!!!
They dont have the highest survivability in the game but I understand why you feel its this way since your build is hardcountered by builds with good mobility. Im not saying that those classes are perfect, shieldstacking is stupid and it should be removed so sorcs are the super mobile but very squishy class.
And yes NBs and sorcs have been generally on the top when it comes to solo open world PVP. But thats because of the nature of PVP and how it synergizes with those classes. Its not a class balance issue. Thats just how the classes are designed. If mobility and burst wasnt that important then sorcs and NB would be in a disadvantage compared to templar and DK. That doesnt mean that they should have burst heals or whatever to just turtle up and soak dmg like a DK or a templar for example.
Again, im not saying that the classes are perfect. There are issues with shieldstacking and class defining defensive abilities like scales being useless. But thats what they should fix. Not make all classes the same. The problem is that to get to that position where you can actually address those issues first you have to remove all those stupid abilities, mechanics that drastically affect the classes in a bunch of different ways so the class advantages/weaknesses start showing up.
Im playing with resto ult and im telling you. Its beyond broken on sorc and it gives you the illusion that the class has good healing and facetanking capabilities when that couldnt be further from the truth.
Exactly this is the problem. This 2 classes are so *** strong.. so the others need to go more defensive to compensate it. Isnt a special think from my build. I cant handle very mobility targets, because they can easiliy dodge my aoe fields. That isnt a problem for me, but my class in general isnt able to defeat a good played magicka sorc or magicka nightblade. Really good played stamina nightblades are a problem too.. we need to spam our burstheal over seconds, not to die in a combo, which can be used from this class all 15sec without a special ultregbuild...
Now again to this thread. A lot of guys are thinking, that we dont need this cheap defending ultimates.. but its wrong in reason of that burstdamage this superior classes can do. Its allready not possible to handle extremly offensive builds without this ultimates. I am interested in good fights and that need just a bit balance. This could mean, that all ultimates need costs increase to use them more as a tactical element and not (again) like nightblades as 11th skill in your rotation!
This could also mean, that all classes need a similar ultimate like nightblades allready have for singletarget!
The other point, highest survivalbility in reason of cloak, which interupts some rotations and also let the nightblade for example dodge the purifying light damage. Sorcs can use teleport with ball of lightning (without a cooldown) and this is an escape and protect them 2 sec for every direct cast! This is just a joke!
Yes it is mainly the build you chose to play. Templars are not forced into ground based AOE builds. That was ur choice. And meta templar builds can manage sorc burst fairly easy while also having more than enough dmg to take the shields down.
You are prety much asking for a complete redesign of classes because you dont want to change ur build.
Ok a secret for you, did you ever challanged some of the best nightblades or sorcs on PC/EU or where ever you play?
I know 1 META templar who can manage the strongest stamina nightblade, but i really dont know just 1 who could beat the best magicka sorc and nightblade... Its simply not possible as templar.. Doesnt matter how i play, i dont have the tools for that. I allready beat that ones who are allready very good, but not these guys, who perfected there class..DeHei - EP Magicka Templar AllrounderDe Hei(Youtube)0 -
Hutch679✭✭✭✭✭
✭Heal multiple people for 5 seconds and a morph that heals them longer > heal one person that might not even go to you for 5 seconds... ummm yeahhh. I think I know which is better.0 -
SanTii.92✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Magicka templar should beat magicka sorcs 1v1, or at least force the stall quite easily. But never lose.
What does this has anything to do with thread's topic.Restorationstaffult should just give the caster major protection only Deleat the kritdamagebuff... then we hold a counter for massive burstdamage from especially nightblades and this ult isnt so strong anymore..
We need this cheap defensive ultimates to react fast against very strong and much cheaper offensive ultimates!
There was a time when we didnt have cheap defensive "u cant kill me" ults and PVP was a million times better. If they are going to be "you cant kill me" buttons they should be expensive or have major drawbacks. Thats what promotes skilled gameplay and reaction to what is actually happening. You know its expensive, you think twice before you use it and you make the most out it. When they are cheap they do the exact opposite. There is no thinking or reacting to offensive ults. You just pop them whenever you feel like it cause who cares. 20 seconds later they will be up again.
Yes maybe. But only nightblades have the offensive answer to this defensive ultimates against single targets. Sorcs can go offensiv too in reason of shieldstacking.
What we have as Templar, DK and Warden? Only warden have another ultimate, which works fine defensive. We dont have the balance for some classes... with increasing this defensive ultimstes we buff again this allready superior classes!
For me it looks like *** again. For example Templar dont have just 1 classultimate, which is really useful in all situations.. offensive i go with drawbreaker or soulstrike and defensive with restorationstaffult for PvP...
All classes need better singletarget ultimates like nightblades... only then i would really agree what you said..
Nightblades and sorcs have better burst single target potential because they are designed around burst. They should have more dmg because they lack other things. If you like playing with high single target burst then im sorry but you are playing the wrong class.
NBs and sorcs are the two classes mostly crutching on resto ult. There is a huge difference between playing with or without that ult. A sorc being pressured and almost dying isnt easy to recover. They have the worst self healing capabilities. They cant just heal from zero to full in 2 seconds. But resto ult can do exactly that for them. Taking away resto ult doesnt buff them because you cant heal their burst. If you are better than they are ull outheal it anw. But it is nerfing them hard because it makes it infinitely easier for you to kill them if you outplay them. Some times you are better of using resto ult as ur main ult. Thats how OP it is on sorc.
You are talking about class balance but its impossible to achieve class balance with such abilities/mechanics. Just look at stamDKs. Crutching on stupid mechanics because they have to, they become unkillable tanks and perceived as strong when in fact nothing they do is because of their class.
One of the biggest problems you described here. They have most burst potencial, but also have the highest survivalbility in game, because of good escaps and the reason, that for example the healingstaffskilltree is stronger then the templarskilltree. Everybody have access to it and at same time for example the healingeffects for templar got only nerfed. DKs and Templar atm need to play this tanky ***, because of no diversity. Try to play them offensiv without class escapes... the only thing you can do is for example using the vampire skillline.
But what is that? They should have simply same possibilities for burst, when the "burstclasses" have same options for survivalbility! Then we could start to speak "its a way to become a balanced game, especially in PvP"!!!
A Sorc building towards the class's strengths will be significantly more squishy than a Templar doing the same. If you decide to play a high damage Templar at the cost of defense, that's on you. Ask for changes to your class that will allow for more different playstyles, instead of crying over those classes that already have what you're after.
Definition of the templarclass actually in PvP: A walking dummie in heavy armor and good selfheal!
That is exactly that, what templar are, when i go with META.. i need to jump in in meleerange in the hope to survive it.
I ask since 1 year for good changes to my mainclass, but i only see nerfs or changes from useless skills to similar useless ones like in our actually next update. Nothing what would really change anything...
When i would play META, its one of the most boring gameplays. I dont would be killable in 1vs1, but i just would be able to kill scrubs... If the solution just would be to reroll nightblades and sorcs, then you will see only this 2 classes finally in some years in PvP!Restorationstaffult should just give the caster major protection only Deleat the kritdamagebuff... then we hold a counter for massive burstdamage from especially nightblades and this ult isnt so strong anymore..
We need this cheap defensive ultimates to react fast against very strong and much cheaper offensive ultimates!
There was a time when we didnt have cheap defensive "u cant kill me" ults and PVP was a million times better. If they are going to be "you cant kill me" buttons they should be expensive or have major drawbacks. Thats what promotes skilled gameplay and reaction to what is actually happening. You know its expensive, you think twice before you use it and you make the most out it. When they are cheap they do the exact opposite. There is no thinking or reacting to offensive ults. You just pop them whenever you feel like it cause who cares. 20 seconds later they will be up again.
Yes maybe. But only nightblades have the offensive answer to this defensive ultimates against single targets. Sorcs can go offensiv too in reason of shieldstacking.
What we have as Templar, DK and Warden? Only warden have another ultimate, which works fine defensive. We dont have the balance for some classes... with increasing this defensive ultimstes we buff again this allready superior classes!
For me it looks like *** again. For example Templar dont have just 1 classultimate, which is really useful in all situations.. offensive i go with drawbreaker or soulstrike and defensive with restorationstaffult for PvP...
All classes need better singletarget ultimates like nightblades... only then i would really agree what you said..
Nightblades and sorcs have better burst single target potential because they are designed around burst. They should have more dmg because they lack other things. If you like playing with high single target burst then im sorry but you are playing the wrong class.
NBs and sorcs are the two classes mostly crutching on resto ult. There is a huge difference between playing with or without that ult. A sorc being pressured and almost dying isnt easy to recover. They have the worst self healing capabilities. They cant just heal from zero to full in 2 seconds. But resto ult can do exactly that for them. Taking away resto ult doesnt buff them because you cant heal their burst. If you are better than they are ull outheal it anw. But it is nerfing them hard because it makes it infinitely easier for you to kill them if you outplay them. Some times you are better of using resto ult as ur main ult. Thats how OP it is on sorc.
You are talking about class balance but its impossible to achieve class balance with such abilities/mechanics. Just look at stamDKs. Crutching on stupid mechanics because they have to, they become unkillable tanks and perceived as strong when in fact nothing they do is because of their class.
One of the biggest problems you described here. They have most burst potencial, but also have the highest survivalbility in game, because of good escaps and the reason, that for example the healingstaffskilltree is stronger then the templarskilltree. Everybody have access to it and at same time for example the healingeffects for templar got only nerfed. DKs and Templar atm need to play this tanky ***, because of no diversity. Try to play them offensiv without class escapes... the only thing you can do is for example using the vampire skillline.
But what is that? They should have simply same possibilities for burst, when the "burstclasses" have same options for survivalbility! Then we could start to speak "its a way to become a balanced game, especially in PvP"!!!
They dont have the highest survivability in the game but I understand why you feel its this way since your build is hardcountered by builds with good mobility. Im not saying that those classes are perfect, shieldstacking is stupid and it should be removed so sorcs are the super mobile but very squishy class.
And yes NBs and sorcs have been generally on the top when it comes to solo open world PVP. But thats because of the nature of PVP and how it synergizes with those classes. Its not a class balance issue. Thats just how the classes are designed. If mobility and burst wasnt that important then sorcs and NB would be in a disadvantage compared to templar and DK. That doesnt mean that they should have burst heals or whatever to just turtle up and soak dmg like a DK or a templar for example.
Again, im not saying that the classes are perfect. There are issues with shieldstacking and class defining defensive abilities like scales being useless. But thats what they should fix. Not make all classes the same. The problem is that to get to that position where you can actually address those issues first you have to remove all those stupid abilities, mechanics that drastically affect the classes in a bunch of different ways so the class advantages/weaknesses start showing up.
Im playing with resto ult and im telling you. Its beyond broken on sorc and it gives you the illusion that the class has good healing and facetanking capabilities when that couldnt be further from the truth.
Exactly this is the problem. This 2 classes are so *** strong.. so the others need to go more defensive to compensate it. Isnt a special think from my build. I cant handle very mobility targets, because they can easiliy dodge my aoe fields. That isnt a problem for me, but my class in general isnt able to defeat a good played magicka sorc or magicka nightblade. Really good played stamina nightblades are a problem too.. we need to spam our burstheal over seconds, not to die in a combo, which can be used from this class all 15sec without a special ultregbuild...
Now again to this thread. A lot of guys are thinking, that we dont need this cheap defending ultimates.. but its wrong in reason of that burstdamage this superior classes can do. Its allready not possible to handle extremly offensive builds without this ultimates. I am interested in good fights and that need just a bit balance. This could mean, that all ultimates need costs increase to use them more as a tactical element and not (again) like nightblades as 11th skill in your rotation!
This could also mean, that all classes need a similar ultimate like nightblades allready have for singletarget!
The other point, highest survivalbility in reason of cloak, which interupts some rotations and also let the nightblade for example dodge the purifying light damage. Sorcs can use teleport with ball of lightning (without a cooldown) and this is an escape and protect them 2 sec for every direct cast! This is just a joke!
Yes it is mainly the build you chose to play. Templars are not forced into ground based AOE builds. That was ur choice. And meta templar builds can manage sorc burst fairly easy while also having more than enough dmg to take the shields down.
You are prety much asking for a complete redesign of classes because you dont want to change ur build.
Ok a secret for you, did you ever challanged some of the best nightblades or sorcs on PC/EU or where ever you play?
I know 1 META templar who can manage the strongest stamina nightblade, but i really dont know just 1 who could beat the best magicka sorc and nightblade... Its simply not possible as templar.. Doesnt matter how i play, i dont have the tools for that. I allready beat that ones who are allready very good, but not these guys, who perfected there class..When the snows fall and the white winds blow,
the lone wolf dies, but the pack survives.
Arg | Pc Na | Factionless Mag Warden.0 -
DeHei✭✭✭✭✭
Magicka templar should beat magicka sorcs 1v1, or at least force the stall quite easily. But never lose.
What does this has anything to do with thread's topic.Restorationstaffult should just give the caster major protection only Deleat the kritdamagebuff... then we hold a counter for massive burstdamage from especially nightblades and this ult isnt so strong anymore..
We need this cheap defensive ultimates to react fast against very strong and much cheaper offensive ultimates!
There was a time when we didnt have cheap defensive "u cant kill me" ults and PVP was a million times better. If they are going to be "you cant kill me" buttons they should be expensive or have major drawbacks. Thats what promotes skilled gameplay and reaction to what is actually happening. You know its expensive, you think twice before you use it and you make the most out it. When they are cheap they do the exact opposite. There is no thinking or reacting to offensive ults. You just pop them whenever you feel like it cause who cares. 20 seconds later they will be up again.
Yes maybe. But only nightblades have the offensive answer to this defensive ultimates against single targets. Sorcs can go offensiv too in reason of shieldstacking.
What we have as Templar, DK and Warden? Only warden have another ultimate, which works fine defensive. We dont have the balance for some classes... with increasing this defensive ultimstes we buff again this allready superior classes!
For me it looks like *** again. For example Templar dont have just 1 classultimate, which is really useful in all situations.. offensive i go with drawbreaker or soulstrike and defensive with restorationstaffult for PvP...
All classes need better singletarget ultimates like nightblades... only then i would really agree what you said..
Nightblades and sorcs have better burst single target potential because they are designed around burst. They should have more dmg because they lack other things. If you like playing with high single target burst then im sorry but you are playing the wrong class.
NBs and sorcs are the two classes mostly crutching on resto ult. There is a huge difference between playing with or without that ult. A sorc being pressured and almost dying isnt easy to recover. They have the worst self healing capabilities. They cant just heal from zero to full in 2 seconds. But resto ult can do exactly that for them. Taking away resto ult doesnt buff them because you cant heal their burst. If you are better than they are ull outheal it anw. But it is nerfing them hard because it makes it infinitely easier for you to kill them if you outplay them. Some times you are better of using resto ult as ur main ult. Thats how OP it is on sorc.
You are talking about class balance but its impossible to achieve class balance with such abilities/mechanics. Just look at stamDKs. Crutching on stupid mechanics because they have to, they become unkillable tanks and perceived as strong when in fact nothing they do is because of their class.
One of the biggest problems you described here. They have most burst potencial, but also have the highest survivalbility in game, because of good escaps and the reason, that for example the healingstaffskilltree is stronger then the templarskilltree. Everybody have access to it and at same time for example the healingeffects for templar got only nerfed. DKs and Templar atm need to play this tanky ***, because of no diversity. Try to play them offensiv without class escapes... the only thing you can do is for example using the vampire skillline.
But what is that? They should have simply same possibilities for burst, when the "burstclasses" have same options for survivalbility! Then we could start to speak "its a way to become a balanced game, especially in PvP"!!!
A Sorc building towards the class's strengths will be significantly more squishy than a Templar doing the same. If you decide to play a high damage Templar at the cost of defense, that's on you. Ask for changes to your class that will allow for more different playstyles, instead of crying over those classes that already have what you're after.
Definition of the templarclass actually in PvP: A walking dummie in heavy armor and good selfheal!
That is exactly that, what templar are, when i go with META.. i need to jump in in meleerange in the hope to survive it.
I ask since 1 year for good changes to my mainclass, but i only see nerfs or changes from useless skills to similar useless ones like in our actually next update. Nothing what would really change anything...
When i would play META, its one of the most boring gameplays. I dont would be killable in 1vs1, but i just would be able to kill scrubs... If the solution just would be to reroll nightblades and sorcs, then you will see only this 2 classes finally in some years in PvP!Restorationstaffult should just give the caster major protection only Deleat the kritdamagebuff... then we hold a counter for massive burstdamage from especially nightblades and this ult isnt so strong anymore..
We need this cheap defensive ultimates to react fast against very strong and much cheaper offensive ultimates!
There was a time when we didnt have cheap defensive "u cant kill me" ults and PVP was a million times better. If they are going to be "you cant kill me" buttons they should be expensive or have major drawbacks. Thats what promotes skilled gameplay and reaction to what is actually happening. You know its expensive, you think twice before you use it and you make the most out it. When they are cheap they do the exact opposite. There is no thinking or reacting to offensive ults. You just pop them whenever you feel like it cause who cares. 20 seconds later they will be up again.
Yes maybe. But only nightblades have the offensive answer to this defensive ultimates against single targets. Sorcs can go offensiv too in reason of shieldstacking.
What we have as Templar, DK and Warden? Only warden have another ultimate, which works fine defensive. We dont have the balance for some classes... with increasing this defensive ultimstes we buff again this allready superior classes!
For me it looks like *** again. For example Templar dont have just 1 classultimate, which is really useful in all situations.. offensive i go with drawbreaker or soulstrike and defensive with restorationstaffult for PvP...
All classes need better singletarget ultimates like nightblades... only then i would really agree what you said..
Nightblades and sorcs have better burst single target potential because they are designed around burst. They should have more dmg because they lack other things. If you like playing with high single target burst then im sorry but you are playing the wrong class.
NBs and sorcs are the two classes mostly crutching on resto ult. There is a huge difference between playing with or without that ult. A sorc being pressured and almost dying isnt easy to recover. They have the worst self healing capabilities. They cant just heal from zero to full in 2 seconds. But resto ult can do exactly that for them. Taking away resto ult doesnt buff them because you cant heal their burst. If you are better than they are ull outheal it anw. But it is nerfing them hard because it makes it infinitely easier for you to kill them if you outplay them. Some times you are better of using resto ult as ur main ult. Thats how OP it is on sorc.
You are talking about class balance but its impossible to achieve class balance with such abilities/mechanics. Just look at stamDKs. Crutching on stupid mechanics because they have to, they become unkillable tanks and perceived as strong when in fact nothing they do is because of their class.
One of the biggest problems you described here. They have most burst potencial, but also have the highest survivalbility in game, because of good escaps and the reason, that for example the healingstaffskilltree is stronger then the templarskilltree. Everybody have access to it and at same time for example the healingeffects for templar got only nerfed. DKs and Templar atm need to play this tanky ***, because of no diversity. Try to play them offensiv without class escapes... the only thing you can do is for example using the vampire skillline.
But what is that? They should have simply same possibilities for burst, when the "burstclasses" have same options for survivalbility! Then we could start to speak "its a way to become a balanced game, especially in PvP"!!!
They dont have the highest survivability in the game but I understand why you feel its this way since your build is hardcountered by builds with good mobility. Im not saying that those classes are perfect, shieldstacking is stupid and it should be removed so sorcs are the super mobile but very squishy class.
And yes NBs and sorcs have been generally on the top when it comes to solo open world PVP. But thats because of the nature of PVP and how it synergizes with those classes. Its not a class balance issue. Thats just how the classes are designed. If mobility and burst wasnt that important then sorcs and NB would be in a disadvantage compared to templar and DK. That doesnt mean that they should have burst heals or whatever to just turtle up and soak dmg like a DK or a templar for example.
Again, im not saying that the classes are perfect. There are issues with shieldstacking and class defining defensive abilities like scales being useless. But thats what they should fix. Not make all classes the same. The problem is that to get to that position where you can actually address those issues first you have to remove all those stupid abilities, mechanics that drastically affect the classes in a bunch of different ways so the class advantages/weaknesses start showing up.
Im playing with resto ult and im telling you. Its beyond broken on sorc and it gives you the illusion that the class has good healing and facetanking capabilities when that couldnt be further from the truth.
Exactly this is the problem. This 2 classes are so *** strong.. so the others need to go more defensive to compensate it. Isnt a special think from my build. I cant handle very mobility targets, because they can easiliy dodge my aoe fields. That isnt a problem for me, but my class in general isnt able to defeat a good played magicka sorc or magicka nightblade. Really good played stamina nightblades are a problem too.. we need to spam our burstheal over seconds, not to die in a combo, which can be used from this class all 15sec without a special ultregbuild...
Now again to this thread. A lot of guys are thinking, that we dont need this cheap defending ultimates.. but its wrong in reason of that burstdamage this superior classes can do. Its allready not possible to handle extremly offensive builds without this ultimates. I am interested in good fights and that need just a bit balance. This could mean, that all ultimates need costs increase to use them more as a tactical element and not (again) like nightblades as 11th skill in your rotation!
This could also mean, that all classes need a similar ultimate like nightblades allready have for singletarget!
The other point, highest survivalbility in reason of cloak, which interupts some rotations and also let the nightblade for example dodge the purifying light damage. Sorcs can use teleport with ball of lightning (without a cooldown) and this is an escape and protect them 2 sec for every direct cast! This is just a joke!
Yes it is mainly the build you chose to play. Templars are not forced into ground based AOE builds. That was ur choice. And meta templar builds can manage sorc burst fairly easy while also having more than enough dmg to take the shields down.
You are prety much asking for a complete redesign of classes because you dont want to change ur build.
Ok a secret for you, did you ever challanged some of the best nightblades or sorcs on PC/EU or where ever you play?
I know 1 META templar who can manage the strongest stamina nightblade, but i really dont know just 1 who could beat the best magicka sorc and nightblade... Its simply not possible as templar.. Doesnt matter how i play, i dont have the tools for that. I allready beat that ones who are allready very good, but not these guys, who perfected there class..
I beat 90% of them, but i am allready very good on my mainclass. But against the best of the bests no chance.. what you want to say me, i have allready tested different builds on templar.. I know some who never were beaten just 1 time from templar.. I just can do endless fights, but no win..Edited by DeHei on October 17, 2017 5:49PMDeHei - EP Magicka Templar AllrounderDe Hei(Youtube)0 -
SanTii.92✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Well, you tied agaisnt someone who's better than you. That means templars wins the matchup.
Magicka templar should beat magicka sorcs 1v1, or at least force the stall quite easily. But never lose.
What does this has anything to do with thread's topic.Restorationstaffult should just give the caster major protection only Deleat the kritdamagebuff... then we hold a counter for massive burstdamage from especially nightblades and this ult isnt so strong anymore..
We need this cheap defensive ultimates to react fast against very strong and much cheaper offensive ultimates!
There was a time when we didnt have cheap defensive "u cant kill me" ults and PVP was a million times better. If they are going to be "you cant kill me" buttons they should be expensive or have major drawbacks. Thats what promotes skilled gameplay and reaction to what is actually happening. You know its expensive, you think twice before you use it and you make the most out it. When they are cheap they do the exact opposite. There is no thinking or reacting to offensive ults. You just pop them whenever you feel like it cause who cares. 20 seconds later they will be up again.
Yes maybe. But only nightblades have the offensive answer to this defensive ultimates against single targets. Sorcs can go offensiv too in reason of shieldstacking.
What we have as Templar, DK and Warden? Only warden have another ultimate, which works fine defensive. We dont have the balance for some classes... with increasing this defensive ultimstes we buff again this allready superior classes!
For me it looks like *** again. For example Templar dont have just 1 classultimate, which is really useful in all situations.. offensive i go with drawbreaker or soulstrike and defensive with restorationstaffult for PvP...
All classes need better singletarget ultimates like nightblades... only then i would really agree what you said..
Nightblades and sorcs have better burst single target potential because they are designed around burst. They should have more dmg because they lack other things. If you like playing with high single target burst then im sorry but you are playing the wrong class.
NBs and sorcs are the two classes mostly crutching on resto ult. There is a huge difference between playing with or without that ult. A sorc being pressured and almost dying isnt easy to recover. They have the worst self healing capabilities. They cant just heal from zero to full in 2 seconds. But resto ult can do exactly that for them. Taking away resto ult doesnt buff them because you cant heal their burst. If you are better than they are ull outheal it anw. But it is nerfing them hard because it makes it infinitely easier for you to kill them if you outplay them. Some times you are better of using resto ult as ur main ult. Thats how OP it is on sorc.
You are talking about class balance but its impossible to achieve class balance with such abilities/mechanics. Just look at stamDKs. Crutching on stupid mechanics because they have to, they become unkillable tanks and perceived as strong when in fact nothing they do is because of their class.
One of the biggest problems you described here. They have most burst potencial, but also have the highest survivalbility in game, because of good escaps and the reason, that for example the healingstaffskilltree is stronger then the templarskilltree. Everybody have access to it and at same time for example the healingeffects for templar got only nerfed. DKs and Templar atm need to play this tanky ***, because of no diversity. Try to play them offensiv without class escapes... the only thing you can do is for example using the vampire skillline.
But what is that? They should have simply same possibilities for burst, when the "burstclasses" have same options for survivalbility! Then we could start to speak "its a way to become a balanced game, especially in PvP"!!!
A Sorc building towards the class's strengths will be significantly more squishy than a Templar doing the same. If you decide to play a high damage Templar at the cost of defense, that's on you. Ask for changes to your class that will allow for more different playstyles, instead of crying over those classes that already have what you're after.
Definition of the templarclass actually in PvP: A walking dummie in heavy armor and good selfheal!
That is exactly that, what templar are, when i go with META.. i need to jump in in meleerange in the hope to survive it.
I ask since 1 year for good changes to my mainclass, but i only see nerfs or changes from useless skills to similar useless ones like in our actually next update. Nothing what would really change anything...
When i would play META, its one of the most boring gameplays. I dont would be killable in 1vs1, but i just would be able to kill scrubs... If the solution just would be to reroll nightblades and sorcs, then you will see only this 2 classes finally in some years in PvP!Restorationstaffult should just give the caster major protection only Deleat the kritdamagebuff... then we hold a counter for massive burstdamage from especially nightblades and this ult isnt so strong anymore..
We need this cheap defensive ultimates to react fast against very strong and much cheaper offensive ultimates!
There was a time when we didnt have cheap defensive "u cant kill me" ults and PVP was a million times better. If they are going to be "you cant kill me" buttons they should be expensive or have major drawbacks. Thats what promotes skilled gameplay and reaction to what is actually happening. You know its expensive, you think twice before you use it and you make the most out it. When they are cheap they do the exact opposite. There is no thinking or reacting to offensive ults. You just pop them whenever you feel like it cause who cares. 20 seconds later they will be up again.
Yes maybe. But only nightblades have the offensive answer to this defensive ultimates against single targets. Sorcs can go offensiv too in reason of shieldstacking.
What we have as Templar, DK and Warden? Only warden have another ultimate, which works fine defensive. We dont have the balance for some classes... with increasing this defensive ultimstes we buff again this allready superior classes!
For me it looks like *** again. For example Templar dont have just 1 classultimate, which is really useful in all situations.. offensive i go with drawbreaker or soulstrike and defensive with restorationstaffult for PvP...
All classes need better singletarget ultimates like nightblades... only then i would really agree what you said..
Nightblades and sorcs have better burst single target potential because they are designed around burst. They should have more dmg because they lack other things. If you like playing with high single target burst then im sorry but you are playing the wrong class.
NBs and sorcs are the two classes mostly crutching on resto ult. There is a huge difference between playing with or without that ult. A sorc being pressured and almost dying isnt easy to recover. They have the worst self healing capabilities. They cant just heal from zero to full in 2 seconds. But resto ult can do exactly that for them. Taking away resto ult doesnt buff them because you cant heal their burst. If you are better than they are ull outheal it anw. But it is nerfing them hard because it makes it infinitely easier for you to kill them if you outplay them. Some times you are better of using resto ult as ur main ult. Thats how OP it is on sorc.
You are talking about class balance but its impossible to achieve class balance with such abilities/mechanics. Just look at stamDKs. Crutching on stupid mechanics because they have to, they become unkillable tanks and perceived as strong when in fact nothing they do is because of their class.
One of the biggest problems you described here. They have most burst potencial, but also have the highest survivalbility in game, because of good escaps and the reason, that for example the healingstaffskilltree is stronger then the templarskilltree. Everybody have access to it and at same time for example the healingeffects for templar got only nerfed. DKs and Templar atm need to play this tanky ***, because of no diversity. Try to play them offensiv without class escapes... the only thing you can do is for example using the vampire skillline.
But what is that? They should have simply same possibilities for burst, when the "burstclasses" have same options for survivalbility! Then we could start to speak "its a way to become a balanced game, especially in PvP"!!!
They dont have the highest survivability in the game but I understand why you feel its this way since your build is hardcountered by builds with good mobility. Im not saying that those classes are perfect, shieldstacking is stupid and it should be removed so sorcs are the super mobile but very squishy class.
And yes NBs and sorcs have been generally on the top when it comes to solo open world PVP. But thats because of the nature of PVP and how it synergizes with those classes. Its not a class balance issue. Thats just how the classes are designed. If mobility and burst wasnt that important then sorcs and NB would be in a disadvantage compared to templar and DK. That doesnt mean that they should have burst heals or whatever to just turtle up and soak dmg like a DK or a templar for example.
Again, im not saying that the classes are perfect. There are issues with shieldstacking and class defining defensive abilities like scales being useless. But thats what they should fix. Not make all classes the same. The problem is that to get to that position where you can actually address those issues first you have to remove all those stupid abilities, mechanics that drastically affect the classes in a bunch of different ways so the class advantages/weaknesses start showing up.
Im playing with resto ult and im telling you. Its beyond broken on sorc and it gives you the illusion that the class has good healing and facetanking capabilities when that couldnt be further from the truth.
Exactly this is the problem. This 2 classes are so *** strong.. so the others need to go more defensive to compensate it. Isnt a special think from my build. I cant handle very mobility targets, because they can easiliy dodge my aoe fields. That isnt a problem for me, but my class in general isnt able to defeat a good played magicka sorc or magicka nightblade. Really good played stamina nightblades are a problem too.. we need to spam our burstheal over seconds, not to die in a combo, which can be used from this class all 15sec without a special ultregbuild...
Now again to this thread. A lot of guys are thinking, that we dont need this cheap defending ultimates.. but its wrong in reason of that burstdamage this superior classes can do. Its allready not possible to handle extremly offensive builds without this ultimates. I am interested in good fights and that need just a bit balance. This could mean, that all ultimates need costs increase to use them more as a tactical element and not (again) like nightblades as 11th skill in your rotation!
This could also mean, that all classes need a similar ultimate like nightblades allready have for singletarget!
The other point, highest survivalbility in reason of cloak, which interupts some rotations and also let the nightblade for example dodge the purifying light damage. Sorcs can use teleport with ball of lightning (without a cooldown) and this is an escape and protect them 2 sec for every direct cast! This is just a joke!
Yes it is mainly the build you chose to play. Templars are not forced into ground based AOE builds. That was ur choice. And meta templar builds can manage sorc burst fairly easy while also having more than enough dmg to take the shields down.
You are prety much asking for a complete redesign of classes because you dont want to change ur build.
Ok a secret for you, did you ever challanged some of the best nightblades or sorcs on PC/EU or where ever you play?
I know 1 META templar who can manage the strongest stamina nightblade, but i really dont know just 1 who could beat the best magicka sorc and nightblade... Its simply not possible as templar.. Doesnt matter how i play, i dont have the tools for that. I allready beat that ones who are allready very good, but not these guys, who perfected there class..
I beat 90% of them, but i am allready very good on my mainclass. But against the best of the bests no chance.. what you want to say me, i have allready tested different builds on templar.. I know some who never were beaten just 1 time from templar.. I just can do endless fights, but no win..When the snows fall and the white winds blow,
the lone wolf dies, but the pack survives.
Arg | Pc Na | Factionless Mag Warden.0 -
DeHei✭✭✭✭✭
Well, you tied agaisnt someone who's better than you. That means templars wins the matchup.
Magicka templar should beat magicka sorcs 1v1, or at least force the stall quite easily. But never lose.
What does this has anything to do with thread's topic.Restorationstaffult should just give the caster major protection only Deleat the kritdamagebuff... then we hold a counter for massive burstdamage from especially nightblades and this ult isnt so strong anymore..
We need this cheap defensive ultimates to react fast against very strong and much cheaper offensive ultimates!
There was a time when we didnt have cheap defensive "u cant kill me" ults and PVP was a million times better. If they are going to be "you cant kill me" buttons they should be expensive or have major drawbacks. Thats what promotes skilled gameplay and reaction to what is actually happening. You know its expensive, you think twice before you use it and you make the most out it. When they are cheap they do the exact opposite. There is no thinking or reacting to offensive ults. You just pop them whenever you feel like it cause who cares. 20 seconds later they will be up again.
Yes maybe. But only nightblades have the offensive answer to this defensive ultimates against single targets. Sorcs can go offensiv too in reason of shieldstacking.
What we have as Templar, DK and Warden? Only warden have another ultimate, which works fine defensive. We dont have the balance for some classes... with increasing this defensive ultimstes we buff again this allready superior classes!
For me it looks like *** again. For example Templar dont have just 1 classultimate, which is really useful in all situations.. offensive i go with drawbreaker or soulstrike and defensive with restorationstaffult for PvP...
All classes need better singletarget ultimates like nightblades... only then i would really agree what you said..
Nightblades and sorcs have better burst single target potential because they are designed around burst. They should have more dmg because they lack other things. If you like playing with high single target burst then im sorry but you are playing the wrong class.
NBs and sorcs are the two classes mostly crutching on resto ult. There is a huge difference between playing with or without that ult. A sorc being pressured and almost dying isnt easy to recover. They have the worst self healing capabilities. They cant just heal from zero to full in 2 seconds. But resto ult can do exactly that for them. Taking away resto ult doesnt buff them because you cant heal their burst. If you are better than they are ull outheal it anw. But it is nerfing them hard because it makes it infinitely easier for you to kill them if you outplay them. Some times you are better of using resto ult as ur main ult. Thats how OP it is on sorc.
You are talking about class balance but its impossible to achieve class balance with such abilities/mechanics. Just look at stamDKs. Crutching on stupid mechanics because they have to, they become unkillable tanks and perceived as strong when in fact nothing they do is because of their class.
One of the biggest problems you described here. They have most burst potencial, but also have the highest survivalbility in game, because of good escaps and the reason, that for example the healingstaffskilltree is stronger then the templarskilltree. Everybody have access to it and at same time for example the healingeffects for templar got only nerfed. DKs and Templar atm need to play this tanky ***, because of no diversity. Try to play them offensiv without class escapes... the only thing you can do is for example using the vampire skillline.
But what is that? They should have simply same possibilities for burst, when the "burstclasses" have same options for survivalbility! Then we could start to speak "its a way to become a balanced game, especially in PvP"!!!
A Sorc building towards the class's strengths will be significantly more squishy than a Templar doing the same. If you decide to play a high damage Templar at the cost of defense, that's on you. Ask for changes to your class that will allow for more different playstyles, instead of crying over those classes that already have what you're after.
Definition of the templarclass actually in PvP: A walking dummie in heavy armor and good selfheal!
That is exactly that, what templar are, when i go with META.. i need to jump in in meleerange in the hope to survive it.
I ask since 1 year for good changes to my mainclass, but i only see nerfs or changes from useless skills to similar useless ones like in our actually next update. Nothing what would really change anything...
When i would play META, its one of the most boring gameplays. I dont would be killable in 1vs1, but i just would be able to kill scrubs... If the solution just would be to reroll nightblades and sorcs, then you will see only this 2 classes finally in some years in PvP!Restorationstaffult should just give the caster major protection only Deleat the kritdamagebuff... then we hold a counter for massive burstdamage from especially nightblades and this ult isnt so strong anymore..
We need this cheap defensive ultimates to react fast against very strong and much cheaper offensive ultimates!
There was a time when we didnt have cheap defensive "u cant kill me" ults and PVP was a million times better. If they are going to be "you cant kill me" buttons they should be expensive or have major drawbacks. Thats what promotes skilled gameplay and reaction to what is actually happening. You know its expensive, you think twice before you use it and you make the most out it. When they are cheap they do the exact opposite. There is no thinking or reacting to offensive ults. You just pop them whenever you feel like it cause who cares. 20 seconds later they will be up again.
Yes maybe. But only nightblades have the offensive answer to this defensive ultimates against single targets. Sorcs can go offensiv too in reason of shieldstacking.
What we have as Templar, DK and Warden? Only warden have another ultimate, which works fine defensive. We dont have the balance for some classes... with increasing this defensive ultimstes we buff again this allready superior classes!
For me it looks like *** again. For example Templar dont have just 1 classultimate, which is really useful in all situations.. offensive i go with drawbreaker or soulstrike and defensive with restorationstaffult for PvP...
All classes need better singletarget ultimates like nightblades... only then i would really agree what you said..
Nightblades and sorcs have better burst single target potential because they are designed around burst. They should have more dmg because they lack other things. If you like playing with high single target burst then im sorry but you are playing the wrong class.
NBs and sorcs are the two classes mostly crutching on resto ult. There is a huge difference between playing with or without that ult. A sorc being pressured and almost dying isnt easy to recover. They have the worst self healing capabilities. They cant just heal from zero to full in 2 seconds. But resto ult can do exactly that for them. Taking away resto ult doesnt buff them because you cant heal their burst. If you are better than they are ull outheal it anw. But it is nerfing them hard because it makes it infinitely easier for you to kill them if you outplay them. Some times you are better of using resto ult as ur main ult. Thats how OP it is on sorc.
You are talking about class balance but its impossible to achieve class balance with such abilities/mechanics. Just look at stamDKs. Crutching on stupid mechanics because they have to, they become unkillable tanks and perceived as strong when in fact nothing they do is because of their class.
One of the biggest problems you described here. They have most burst potencial, but also have the highest survivalbility in game, because of good escaps and the reason, that for example the healingstaffskilltree is stronger then the templarskilltree. Everybody have access to it and at same time for example the healingeffects for templar got only nerfed. DKs and Templar atm need to play this tanky ***, because of no diversity. Try to play them offensiv without class escapes... the only thing you can do is for example using the vampire skillline.
But what is that? They should have simply same possibilities for burst, when the "burstclasses" have same options for survivalbility! Then we could start to speak "its a way to become a balanced game, especially in PvP"!!!
They dont have the highest survivability in the game but I understand why you feel its this way since your build is hardcountered by builds with good mobility. Im not saying that those classes are perfect, shieldstacking is stupid and it should be removed so sorcs are the super mobile but very squishy class.
And yes NBs and sorcs have been generally on the top when it comes to solo open world PVP. But thats because of the nature of PVP and how it synergizes with those classes. Its not a class balance issue. Thats just how the classes are designed. If mobility and burst wasnt that important then sorcs and NB would be in a disadvantage compared to templar and DK. That doesnt mean that they should have burst heals or whatever to just turtle up and soak dmg like a DK or a templar for example.
Again, im not saying that the classes are perfect. There are issues with shieldstacking and class defining defensive abilities like scales being useless. But thats what they should fix. Not make all classes the same. The problem is that to get to that position where you can actually address those issues first you have to remove all those stupid abilities, mechanics that drastically affect the classes in a bunch of different ways so the class advantages/weaknesses start showing up.
Im playing with resto ult and im telling you. Its beyond broken on sorc and it gives you the illusion that the class has good healing and facetanking capabilities when that couldnt be further from the truth.
Exactly this is the problem. This 2 classes are so *** strong.. so the others need to go more defensive to compensate it. Isnt a special think from my build. I cant handle very mobility targets, because they can easiliy dodge my aoe fields. That isnt a problem for me, but my class in general isnt able to defeat a good played magicka sorc or magicka nightblade. Really good played stamina nightblades are a problem too.. we need to spam our burstheal over seconds, not to die in a combo, which can be used from this class all 15sec without a special ultregbuild...
Now again to this thread. A lot of guys are thinking, that we dont need this cheap defending ultimates.. but its wrong in reason of that burstdamage this superior classes can do. Its allready not possible to handle extremly offensive builds without this ultimates. I am interested in good fights and that need just a bit balance. This could mean, that all ultimates need costs increase to use them more as a tactical element and not (again) like nightblades as 11th skill in your rotation!
This could also mean, that all classes need a similar ultimate like nightblades allready have for singletarget!
The other point, highest survivalbility in reason of cloak, which interupts some rotations and also let the nightblade for example dodge the purifying light damage. Sorcs can use teleport with ball of lightning (without a cooldown) and this is an escape and protect them 2 sec for every direct cast! This is just a joke!
Yes it is mainly the build you chose to play. Templars are not forced into ground based AOE builds. That was ur choice. And meta templar builds can manage sorc burst fairly easy while also having more than enough dmg to take the shields down.
You are prety much asking for a complete redesign of classes because you dont want to change ur build.
Ok a secret for you, did you ever challanged some of the best nightblades or sorcs on PC/EU or where ever you play?
I know 1 META templar who can manage the strongest stamina nightblade, but i really dont know just 1 who could beat the best magicka sorc and nightblade... Its simply not possible as templar.. Doesnt matter how i play, i dont have the tools for that. I allready beat that ones who are allready very good, but not these guys, who perfected there class..
I beat 90% of them, but i am allready very good on my mainclass. But against the best of the bests no chance.. what you want to say me, i have allready tested different builds on templar.. I know some who never were beaten just 1 time from templar.. I just can do endless fights, but no win..
A magicka sorc and magicka nightblade who lose against a templar isnt doing well mate. In common setup templar should win maybe 1/10 fights with luck..
Ask @Derra or @LegendaryMage and they will explain you the same.Edited by DeHei on October 17, 2017 6:35PMDeHei - EP Magicka Templar AllrounderDe Hei(Youtube)0 -
Brutusmax1mus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Brutusmax1mus wrote: »Gilliamtherogue wrote: »Gilliamtherogue wrote: »125 ulti for a Breath of Life heal tick every 1s for 5s (up to 10 if solo) WITH MOBILE Major Protection AND Force is pretty stupid. One of the most over loaded ultimates in the game.
Looking at other ultimates that have Major Protection;
Consuming Darkness & Morphs - Major Protection for up to 6 players for 16 seconds in a stationary setting. 200 ulti cost. Only heals if user is low health and prompts a synergy. One more doubles Major prot on caster, other does pitiful damage. Can be Negated.
Sleet Storm & Morphs - Major Protection for caster and up to 5 players for 8 seconds in a mobile setting. 200 ulti cost. Deals pitiful damage. One morph stuns if targets are hit consecutively by the damage portion (6 nearest targets, will update if those 6 nearest targets change, but will not actively stun other targets), the other passively adds 8% Magicka to the caster for slotting. Cannot be Negated.
So we have two settings of Major Protection having twice as much ulti cost as live (100 on live, 125 when CWC goes live), with no Major Force or massive healing enabled. The only form of Major Protection that lasts longer is a stationary setting that either does pathetic damage or gives the caster some more mitigation, while still being vulnerable to negation.
Suggestions;
Option A -Increase cost of Light's Champion to 175 (leave Panacea and Lifebringer at 125). This gives an option to have buffs AND immense healing but at the cost of a longer pay out (have to build up extra ulti), OR a very solid defensive heal that saves some global cooldowns and Magicka.
Option B - Remove Major Protection completely from Light's Champion. Leave ulti cost at 125 for all morphs. This leaves Light's Champion as a strong "Oh [snip]" button with its redonkulous healing, while also adding a distinction of group utility vs selfish saved resources.
Option C -Change Major Protection and Force to Minor Protection and Force on Light's Champion. Leave ulti cost at 125 for all morphs. This brings down raw mitigation of the skill while still retaining a chunk of it, but also takes away from some of the offensive power of Major Force. This is the poorest balance option in my opinion, as Major Force is only 5% more CHD compared to Minor Force, and it also applies to Healing.
No offense but you should stick to pve theorycrafting
So no rebutal to the facts I pointed out? Anyone with eyes and understanding can see Resto Ult is very overloaded to other similar ultimates. It doesn't matter what kind of player you are to see that, as long as you have half a brain.
I'll come at you. Try casting the resto ultimate even you're being attacked and need it while in a full group. Good luck getting more than one of those heals. You're argument is based on solo or very scale, with 2 or 3 ppl.
Solo like duels or 1vx where you can guarantee you get all ticks, the resto ultimate is incredible. However, the more people you have around you, the more it becomes a support ultimate and is not over performing. If you're in a group of four, it heals 2 ppl twice, and two ppl once, over 6 seconds, you're essentially just supporting the group with buffs as if you need to be healing all 4 or more people you're going to need to supplement the resto ultimate with other healing skills.
Where as it can also heal one person in your group, do only 1 person gets the buffs!!! That's not op
[Edited for quote]
Thats like trying to take down zergs with single target abilities and then complaining why you cant kill zergs and blame the abilities you are using.
Abilities are not considered OP only when they are overperforming in every aspect of the game. That would mean that all abilities are balanced.
I never said overpowered, i said incredible. You can't balance a game like this and expect certain skills not to shine in certain environments. Resto ult only shines very very very small scale or solo. Its mediocre and unreliable in medium to large scale. In terms of this game, that's balanced.
What if it healed all 6 heals instantly to 6 different people, would that be more balanced to you? Many scenarios where that could be better or less effective.Edited by Brutusmax1mus on October 17, 2017 6:30PM1 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Hatoreehanzo wrote: »Dizzying Tooltip
DBoS Tooltip
Yeah... Defensive abilities are clearly Overperforming3 -
SanTii.92✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Nothing the explain, a templar can only lose to a sorc after a royal mess up.
Well, you tied agaisnt someone who's better than you. That means templars wins the matchup.
Magicka templar should beat magicka sorcs 1v1, or at least force the stall quite easily. But never lose.
What does this has anything to do with thread's topic.Restorationstaffult should just give the caster major protection only Deleat the kritdamagebuff... then we hold a counter for massive burstdamage from especially nightblades and this ult isnt so strong anymore..
We need this cheap defensive ultimates to react fast against very strong and much cheaper offensive ultimates!
There was a time when we didnt have cheap defensive "u cant kill me" ults and PVP was a million times better. If they are going to be "you cant kill me" buttons they should be expensive or have major drawbacks. Thats what promotes skilled gameplay and reaction to what is actually happening. You know its expensive, you think twice before you use it and you make the most out it. When they are cheap they do the exact opposite. There is no thinking or reacting to offensive ults. You just pop them whenever you feel like it cause who cares. 20 seconds later they will be up again.
Yes maybe. But only nightblades have the offensive answer to this defensive ultimates against single targets. Sorcs can go offensiv too in reason of shieldstacking.
What we have as Templar, DK and Warden? Only warden have another ultimate, which works fine defensive. We dont have the balance for some classes... with increasing this defensive ultimstes we buff again this allready superior classes!
For me it looks like *** again. For example Templar dont have just 1 classultimate, which is really useful in all situations.. offensive i go with drawbreaker or soulstrike and defensive with restorationstaffult for PvP...
All classes need better singletarget ultimates like nightblades... only then i would really agree what you said..
Nightblades and sorcs have better burst single target potential because they are designed around burst. They should have more dmg because they lack other things. If you like playing with high single target burst then im sorry but you are playing the wrong class.
NBs and sorcs are the two classes mostly crutching on resto ult. There is a huge difference between playing with or without that ult. A sorc being pressured and almost dying isnt easy to recover. They have the worst self healing capabilities. They cant just heal from zero to full in 2 seconds. But resto ult can do exactly that for them. Taking away resto ult doesnt buff them because you cant heal their burst. If you are better than they are ull outheal it anw. But it is nerfing them hard because it makes it infinitely easier for you to kill them if you outplay them. Some times you are better of using resto ult as ur main ult. Thats how OP it is on sorc.
You are talking about class balance but its impossible to achieve class balance with such abilities/mechanics. Just look at stamDKs. Crutching on stupid mechanics because they have to, they become unkillable tanks and perceived as strong when in fact nothing they do is because of their class.
One of the biggest problems you described here. They have most burst potencial, but also have the highest survivalbility in game, because of good escaps and the reason, that for example the healingstaffskilltree is stronger then the templarskilltree. Everybody have access to it and at same time for example the healingeffects for templar got only nerfed. DKs and Templar atm need to play this tanky ***, because of no diversity. Try to play them offensiv without class escapes... the only thing you can do is for example using the vampire skillline.
But what is that? They should have simply same possibilities for burst, when the "burstclasses" have same options for survivalbility! Then we could start to speak "its a way to become a balanced game, especially in PvP"!!!
A Sorc building towards the class's strengths will be significantly more squishy than a Templar doing the same. If you decide to play a high damage Templar at the cost of defense, that's on you. Ask for changes to your class that will allow for more different playstyles, instead of crying over those classes that already have what you're after.
Definition of the templarclass actually in PvP: A walking dummie in heavy armor and good selfheal!
That is exactly that, what templar are, when i go with META.. i need to jump in in meleerange in the hope to survive it.
I ask since 1 year for good changes to my mainclass, but i only see nerfs or changes from useless skills to similar useless ones like in our actually next update. Nothing what would really change anything...
When i would play META, its one of the most boring gameplays. I dont would be killable in 1vs1, but i just would be able to kill scrubs... If the solution just would be to reroll nightblades and sorcs, then you will see only this 2 classes finally in some years in PvP!Restorationstaffult should just give the caster major protection only Deleat the kritdamagebuff... then we hold a counter for massive burstdamage from especially nightblades and this ult isnt so strong anymore..
We need this cheap defensive ultimates to react fast against very strong and much cheaper offensive ultimates!
There was a time when we didnt have cheap defensive "u cant kill me" ults and PVP was a million times better. If they are going to be "you cant kill me" buttons they should be expensive or have major drawbacks. Thats what promotes skilled gameplay and reaction to what is actually happening. You know its expensive, you think twice before you use it and you make the most out it. When they are cheap they do the exact opposite. There is no thinking or reacting to offensive ults. You just pop them whenever you feel like it cause who cares. 20 seconds later they will be up again.
Yes maybe. But only nightblades have the offensive answer to this defensive ultimates against single targets. Sorcs can go offensiv too in reason of shieldstacking.
What we have as Templar, DK and Warden? Only warden have another ultimate, which works fine defensive. We dont have the balance for some classes... with increasing this defensive ultimstes we buff again this allready superior classes!
For me it looks like *** again. For example Templar dont have just 1 classultimate, which is really useful in all situations.. offensive i go with drawbreaker or soulstrike and defensive with restorationstaffult for PvP...
All classes need better singletarget ultimates like nightblades... only then i would really agree what you said..
Nightblades and sorcs have better burst single target potential because they are designed around burst. They should have more dmg because they lack other things. If you like playing with high single target burst then im sorry but you are playing the wrong class.
NBs and sorcs are the two classes mostly crutching on resto ult. There is a huge difference between playing with or without that ult. A sorc being pressured and almost dying isnt easy to recover. They have the worst self healing capabilities. They cant just heal from zero to full in 2 seconds. But resto ult can do exactly that for them. Taking away resto ult doesnt buff them because you cant heal their burst. If you are better than they are ull outheal it anw. But it is nerfing them hard because it makes it infinitely easier for you to kill them if you outplay them. Some times you are better of using resto ult as ur main ult. Thats how OP it is on sorc.
You are talking about class balance but its impossible to achieve class balance with such abilities/mechanics. Just look at stamDKs. Crutching on stupid mechanics because they have to, they become unkillable tanks and perceived as strong when in fact nothing they do is because of their class.
One of the biggest problems you described here. They have most burst potencial, but also have the highest survivalbility in game, because of good escaps and the reason, that for example the healingstaffskilltree is stronger then the templarskilltree. Everybody have access to it and at same time for example the healingeffects for templar got only nerfed. DKs and Templar atm need to play this tanky ***, because of no diversity. Try to play them offensiv without class escapes... the only thing you can do is for example using the vampire skillline.
But what is that? They should have simply same possibilities for burst, when the "burstclasses" have same options for survivalbility! Then we could start to speak "its a way to become a balanced game, especially in PvP"!!!
They dont have the highest survivability in the game but I understand why you feel its this way since your build is hardcountered by builds with good mobility. Im not saying that those classes are perfect, shieldstacking is stupid and it should be removed so sorcs are the super mobile but very squishy class.
And yes NBs and sorcs have been generally on the top when it comes to solo open world PVP. But thats because of the nature of PVP and how it synergizes with those classes. Its not a class balance issue. Thats just how the classes are designed. If mobility and burst wasnt that important then sorcs and NB would be in a disadvantage compared to templar and DK. That doesnt mean that they should have burst heals or whatever to just turtle up and soak dmg like a DK or a templar for example.
Again, im not saying that the classes are perfect. There are issues with shieldstacking and class defining defensive abilities like scales being useless. But thats what they should fix. Not make all classes the same. The problem is that to get to that position where you can actually address those issues first you have to remove all those stupid abilities, mechanics that drastically affect the classes in a bunch of different ways so the class advantages/weaknesses start showing up.
Im playing with resto ult and im telling you. Its beyond broken on sorc and it gives you the illusion that the class has good healing and facetanking capabilities when that couldnt be further from the truth.
Exactly this is the problem. This 2 classes are so *** strong.. so the others need to go more defensive to compensate it. Isnt a special think from my build. I cant handle very mobility targets, because they can easiliy dodge my aoe fields. That isnt a problem for me, but my class in general isnt able to defeat a good played magicka sorc or magicka nightblade. Really good played stamina nightblades are a problem too.. we need to spam our burstheal over seconds, not to die in a combo, which can be used from this class all 15sec without a special ultregbuild...
Now again to this thread. A lot of guys are thinking, that we dont need this cheap defending ultimates.. but its wrong in reason of that burstdamage this superior classes can do. Its allready not possible to handle extremly offensive builds without this ultimates. I am interested in good fights and that need just a bit balance. This could mean, that all ultimates need costs increase to use them more as a tactical element and not (again) like nightblades as 11th skill in your rotation!
This could also mean, that all classes need a similar ultimate like nightblades allready have for singletarget!
The other point, highest survivalbility in reason of cloak, which interupts some rotations and also let the nightblade for example dodge the purifying light damage. Sorcs can use teleport with ball of lightning (without a cooldown) and this is an escape and protect them 2 sec for every direct cast! This is just a joke!
Yes it is mainly the build you chose to play. Templars are not forced into ground based AOE builds. That was ur choice. And meta templar builds can manage sorc burst fairly easy while also having more than enough dmg to take the shields down.
You are prety much asking for a complete redesign of classes because you dont want to change ur build.
Ok a secret for you, did you ever challanged some of the best nightblades or sorcs on PC/EU or where ever you play?
I know 1 META templar who can manage the strongest stamina nightblade, but i really dont know just 1 who could beat the best magicka sorc and nightblade... Its simply not possible as templar.. Doesnt matter how i play, i dont have the tools for that. I allready beat that ones who are allready very good, but not these guys, who perfected there class..
I beat 90% of them, but i am allready very good on my mainclass. But against the best of the bests no chance.. what you want to say me, i have allready tested different builds on templar.. I know some who never were beaten just 1 time from templar.. I just can do endless fights, but no win..
A magicka sorc and magicka nightblade who lose against a templar isnt doing well mate. In common setup templar should win maybe 1/10 fights with luck..
Ask Derra or LegendaryMage and they will explain you the same.Edited by SanTii.92 on October 17, 2017 7:09PMWhen the snows fall and the white winds blow,
the lone wolf dies, but the pack survives.
Arg | Pc Na | Factionless Mag Warden.0 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I think templar and sorc stall each other if the sorc has mines and both use "classic" builds.<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 500 -
DeHei✭✭✭✭✭
Nothing the explain, a templar can only lose to a sorc after a royal mess up.
Well, you tied agaisnt someone who's better than you. That means templars wins the matchup.
Magicka templar should beat magicka sorcs 1v1, or at least force the stall quite easily. But never lose.
What does this has anything to do with thread's topic.Restorationstaffult should just give the caster major protection only Deleat the kritdamagebuff... then we hold a counter for massive burstdamage from especially nightblades and this ult isnt so strong anymore..
We need this cheap defensive ultimates to react fast against very strong and much cheaper offensive ultimates!
There was a time when we didnt have cheap defensive "u cant kill me" ults and PVP was a million times better. If they are going to be "you cant kill me" buttons they should be expensive or have major drawbacks. Thats what promotes skilled gameplay and reaction to what is actually happening. You know its expensive, you think twice before you use it and you make the most out it. When they are cheap they do the exact opposite. There is no thinking or reacting to offensive ults. You just pop them whenever you feel like it cause who cares. 20 seconds later they will be up again.
Yes maybe. But only nightblades have the offensive answer to this defensive ultimates against single targets. Sorcs can go offensiv too in reason of shieldstacking.
What we have as Templar, DK and Warden? Only warden have another ultimate, which works fine defensive. We dont have the balance for some classes... with increasing this defensive ultimstes we buff again this allready superior classes!
For me it looks like *** again. For example Templar dont have just 1 classultimate, which is really useful in all situations.. offensive i go with drawbreaker or soulstrike and defensive with restorationstaffult for PvP...
All classes need better singletarget ultimates like nightblades... only then i would really agree what you said..
Nightblades and sorcs have better burst single target potential because they are designed around burst. They should have more dmg because they lack other things. If you like playing with high single target burst then im sorry but you are playing the wrong class.
NBs and sorcs are the two classes mostly crutching on resto ult. There is a huge difference between playing with or without that ult. A sorc being pressured and almost dying isnt easy to recover. They have the worst self healing capabilities. They cant just heal from zero to full in 2 seconds. But resto ult can do exactly that for them. Taking away resto ult doesnt buff them because you cant heal their burst. If you are better than they are ull outheal it anw. But it is nerfing them hard because it makes it infinitely easier for you to kill them if you outplay them. Some times you are better of using resto ult as ur main ult. Thats how OP it is on sorc.
You are talking about class balance but its impossible to achieve class balance with such abilities/mechanics. Just look at stamDKs. Crutching on stupid mechanics because they have to, they become unkillable tanks and perceived as strong when in fact nothing they do is because of their class.
One of the biggest problems you described here. They have most burst potencial, but also have the highest survivalbility in game, because of good escaps and the reason, that for example the healingstaffskilltree is stronger then the templarskilltree. Everybody have access to it and at same time for example the healingeffects for templar got only nerfed. DKs and Templar atm need to play this tanky ***, because of no diversity. Try to play them offensiv without class escapes... the only thing you can do is for example using the vampire skillline.
But what is that? They should have simply same possibilities for burst, when the "burstclasses" have same options for survivalbility! Then we could start to speak "its a way to become a balanced game, especially in PvP"!!!
A Sorc building towards the class's strengths will be significantly more squishy than a Templar doing the same. If you decide to play a high damage Templar at the cost of defense, that's on you. Ask for changes to your class that will allow for more different playstyles, instead of crying over those classes that already have what you're after.
Definition of the templarclass actually in PvP: A walking dummie in heavy armor and good selfheal!
That is exactly that, what templar are, when i go with META.. i need to jump in in meleerange in the hope to survive it.
I ask since 1 year for good changes to my mainclass, but i only see nerfs or changes from useless skills to similar useless ones like in our actually next update. Nothing what would really change anything...
When i would play META, its one of the most boring gameplays. I dont would be killable in 1vs1, but i just would be able to kill scrubs... If the solution just would be to reroll nightblades and sorcs, then you will see only this 2 classes finally in some years in PvP!Restorationstaffult should just give the caster major protection only Deleat the kritdamagebuff... then we hold a counter for massive burstdamage from especially nightblades and this ult isnt so strong anymore..
We need this cheap defensive ultimates to react fast against very strong and much cheaper offensive ultimates!
There was a time when we didnt have cheap defensive "u cant kill me" ults and PVP was a million times better. If they are going to be "you cant kill me" buttons they should be expensive or have major drawbacks. Thats what promotes skilled gameplay and reaction to what is actually happening. You know its expensive, you think twice before you use it and you make the most out it. When they are cheap they do the exact opposite. There is no thinking or reacting to offensive ults. You just pop them whenever you feel like it cause who cares. 20 seconds later they will be up again.
Yes maybe. But only nightblades have the offensive answer to this defensive ultimates against single targets. Sorcs can go offensiv too in reason of shieldstacking.
What we have as Templar, DK and Warden? Only warden have another ultimate, which works fine defensive. We dont have the balance for some classes... with increasing this defensive ultimstes we buff again this allready superior classes!
For me it looks like *** again. For example Templar dont have just 1 classultimate, which is really useful in all situations.. offensive i go with drawbreaker or soulstrike and defensive with restorationstaffult for PvP...
All classes need better singletarget ultimates like nightblades... only then i would really agree what you said..
Nightblades and sorcs have better burst single target potential because they are designed around burst. They should have more dmg because they lack other things. If you like playing with high single target burst then im sorry but you are playing the wrong class.
NBs and sorcs are the two classes mostly crutching on resto ult. There is a huge difference between playing with or without that ult. A sorc being pressured and almost dying isnt easy to recover. They have the worst self healing capabilities. They cant just heal from zero to full in 2 seconds. But resto ult can do exactly that for them. Taking away resto ult doesnt buff them because you cant heal their burst. If you are better than they are ull outheal it anw. But it is nerfing them hard because it makes it infinitely easier for you to kill them if you outplay them. Some times you are better of using resto ult as ur main ult. Thats how OP it is on sorc.
You are talking about class balance but its impossible to achieve class balance with such abilities/mechanics. Just look at stamDKs. Crutching on stupid mechanics because they have to, they become unkillable tanks and perceived as strong when in fact nothing they do is because of their class.
One of the biggest problems you described here. They have most burst potencial, but also have the highest survivalbility in game, because of good escaps and the reason, that for example the healingstaffskilltree is stronger then the templarskilltree. Everybody have access to it and at same time for example the healingeffects for templar got only nerfed. DKs and Templar atm need to play this tanky ***, because of no diversity. Try to play them offensiv without class escapes... the only thing you can do is for example using the vampire skillline.
But what is that? They should have simply same possibilities for burst, when the "burstclasses" have same options for survivalbility! Then we could start to speak "its a way to become a balanced game, especially in PvP"!!!
They dont have the highest survivability in the game but I understand why you feel its this way since your build is hardcountered by builds with good mobility. Im not saying that those classes are perfect, shieldstacking is stupid and it should be removed so sorcs are the super mobile but very squishy class.
And yes NBs and sorcs have been generally on the top when it comes to solo open world PVP. But thats because of the nature of PVP and how it synergizes with those classes. Its not a class balance issue. Thats just how the classes are designed. If mobility and burst wasnt that important then sorcs and NB would be in a disadvantage compared to templar and DK. That doesnt mean that they should have burst heals or whatever to just turtle up and soak dmg like a DK or a templar for example.
Again, im not saying that the classes are perfect. There are issues with shieldstacking and class defining defensive abilities like scales being useless. But thats what they should fix. Not make all classes the same. The problem is that to get to that position where you can actually address those issues first you have to remove all those stupid abilities, mechanics that drastically affect the classes in a bunch of different ways so the class advantages/weaknesses start showing up.
Im playing with resto ult and im telling you. Its beyond broken on sorc and it gives you the illusion that the class has good healing and facetanking capabilities when that couldnt be further from the truth.
Exactly this is the problem. This 2 classes are so *** strong.. so the others need to go more defensive to compensate it. Isnt a special think from my build. I cant handle very mobility targets, because they can easiliy dodge my aoe fields. That isnt a problem for me, but my class in general isnt able to defeat a good played magicka sorc or magicka nightblade. Really good played stamina nightblades are a problem too.. we need to spam our burstheal over seconds, not to die in a combo, which can be used from this class all 15sec without a special ultregbuild...
Now again to this thread. A lot of guys are thinking, that we dont need this cheap defending ultimates.. but its wrong in reason of that burstdamage this superior classes can do. Its allready not possible to handle extremly offensive builds without this ultimates. I am interested in good fights and that need just a bit balance. This could mean, that all ultimates need costs increase to use them more as a tactical element and not (again) like nightblades as 11th skill in your rotation!
This could also mean, that all classes need a similar ultimate like nightblades allready have for singletarget!
The other point, highest survivalbility in reason of cloak, which interupts some rotations and also let the nightblade for example dodge the purifying light damage. Sorcs can use teleport with ball of lightning (without a cooldown) and this is an escape and protect them 2 sec for every direct cast! This is just a joke!
Yes it is mainly the build you chose to play. Templars are not forced into ground based AOE builds. That was ur choice. And meta templar builds can manage sorc burst fairly easy while also having more than enough dmg to take the shields down.
You are prety much asking for a complete redesign of classes because you dont want to change ur build.
Ok a secret for you, did you ever challanged some of the best nightblades or sorcs on PC/EU or where ever you play?
I know 1 META templar who can manage the strongest stamina nightblade, but i really dont know just 1 who could beat the best magicka sorc and nightblade... Its simply not possible as templar.. Doesnt matter how i play, i dont have the tools for that. I allready beat that ones who are allready very good, but not these guys, who perfected there class..
I beat 90% of them, but i am allready very good on my mainclass. But against the best of the bests no chance.. what you want to say me, i have allready tested different builds on templar.. I know some who never were beaten just 1 time from templar.. I just can do endless fights, but no win..
A magicka sorc and magicka nightblade who lose against a templar isnt doing well mate. In common setup templar should win maybe 1/10 fights with luck..
Ask Derra or LegendaryMage and they will explain you the same.
Did you ever fighted experienced sorcs?
I dont talk about a draw, i mean to defeat sorcs. An experienced sorc will never get enough burstdamage..Edited by DeHei on October 17, 2017 7:15PMDeHei - EP Magicka Templar AllrounderDe Hei(Youtube)0 -
kypranb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Hi everyone, my two cents here.
I play a Magblade with 700CP on Xbox, 200 CP on PC. I have around 2,000 hours logged. I have done every normal/veteran dungeon as Magblade healer, and every normal trial except AA as magblade DPS. I also love PVP, even prefer it.
As a Magblade, I feel like if the Light's Champion gets anymore expensive than 125 ULT, I would have to drop it from my bar. Let me explain why though.
As a Magblade, I get access to Veil of Blades, a self-ground targeted buff which grants Major Protection and does absurd amounts of damage to anyone within it's radius, as well as a massive healing synergy to low health allies that also makes them invisible and granting them movement speed for a few seconds. Veil of Blades lasts for 18.7 seconds and costs 200 ULT to cast. (Unbuffed tooltip is nearly 4k/second.)
Veil of Blades- 18.7 second duration, Major Protection, Healing Synergy, DoT to Enemies dumb enough to stand in it, renders you immobile if you want to utilize the buff and doesn't self heal.
Light's Champion- 5 Second Duration, Major Protection, Major Force, Solid HoT Burst, can stay mobile and self heal.
Over 5 seconds with no exterior sources, you would gain 15 ultimate back. over 18.7 rounded to 19 seconds would give 57 ultimate.
This means that I'd need to earn 110 ULT to cast Light's Champion again, and 143 ULT to cast Veil of Blades again.
However, if you increased the cost of Light's Champion any further, you might devalue it for my class entirely, which realistically is ok. This is why we have multiple classes after all, diversity.
In your opinion, if they did increase the ULT cost of Light's Champion further, what class/scenario would it be useful for if any?
0 -
ToRelax✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭kypranb14_ESO wrote: »Hi everyone, my two cents here.
I play a Magblade with 700CP on Xbox, 200 CP on PC. I have around 2,000 hours logged. I have done every normal/veteran dungeon as Magblade healer, and every normal trial except AA as magblade DPS. I also love PVP, even prefer it.
As a Magblade, I feel like if the Light's Champion gets anymore expensive than 125 ULT, I would have to drop it from my bar. Let me explain why though.
As a Magblade, I get access to Veil of Blades, a self-ground targeted buff which grants Major Protection and does absurd amounts of damage to anyone within it's radius, as well as a massive healing synergy to low health allies that also makes them invisible and granting them movement speed for a few seconds. Veil of Blades lasts for 18.7 seconds and costs 200 ULT to cast. (Unbuffed tooltip is nearly 4k/second.)
Veil of Blades- 18.7 second duration, Major Protection, Healing Synergy, DoT to Enemies dumb enough to stand in it, renders you immobile if you want to utilize the buff and doesn't self heal.
Light's Champion- 5 Second Duration, Major Protection, Major Force, Solid HoT Burst, can stay mobile and self heal.
Over 5 seconds with no exterior sources, you would gain 15 ultimate back. over 18.7 rounded to 19 seconds would give 57 ultimate.
This means that I'd need to earn 110 ULT to cast Light's Champion again, and 143 ULT to cast Veil of Blades again.
However, if you increased the cost of Light's Champion any further, you might devalue it for my class entirely, which realistically is ok. This is why we have multiple classes after all, diversity.
In your opinion, if they did increase the ULT cost of Light's Champion further, what class/scenario would it be useful for if any?
Veil of Blases, although powerful, is very limited in it's application. If you're trying to fall back, you can't take it with you. If you're using it offensively, enemies will try to move out.
Higher cost also means it will take longer for it to be ready after using your other ultimate, likely a more offensive one.
For solo play specifically, you will also retain the major protection from Light's Champion for 5 seconds after the heal runs out, granting you significantly higher uptime. In fact, if this weren't the case, it would be a lot easier to kill enemies using this ult as long as you control the fight. As it stands, the enemy just has that extra help to bridge the time between heals.
Generally, I think a healing ultimate should come at a cost that makes you think twice about using it, lest you waste it. Currently, one can pretty much use it as soon as trouble is coming, which admittedly still keeps people from using more offensive ultimates instead, but isn't exactly fun to fight against. Like a practically won chess game where for some reason it's impossible to corner your opponent.Edited by ToRelax on October 17, 2017 7:43PMDAGON - ALTADOON - CHIM - GHARTOK
The Covenant is broken. The Enemy has won...
Elo'dryel - Sorc - AR 50 - Hopesfire - EP EU0 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭kypranb14_ESO wrote: »Hi everyone, my two cents here.
I play a Magblade with 700CP on Xbox, 200 CP on PC. I have around 2,000 hours logged. I have done every normal/veteran dungeon as Magblade healer, and every normal trial except AA as magblade DPS. I also love PVP, even prefer it.
As a Magblade, I feel like if the Light's Champion gets anymore expensive than 125 ULT, I would have to drop it from my bar. Let me explain why though.
As a Magblade, I get access to Veil of Blades, a self-ground targeted buff which grants Major Protection and does absurd amounts of damage to anyone within it's radius, as well as a massive healing synergy to low health allies that also makes them invisible and granting them movement speed for a few seconds. Veil of Blades lasts for 18.7 seconds and costs 200 ULT to cast. (Unbuffed tooltip is nearly 4k/second.)
Veil of Blades- 18.7 second duration, Major Protection, Healing Synergy, DoT to Enemies dumb enough to stand in it, renders you immobile if you want to utilize the buff and doesn't self heal.
Light's Champion- 5 Second Duration, Major Protection, Major Force, Solid HoT Burst, can stay mobile and self heal.
Over 5 seconds with no exterior sources, you would gain 15 ultimate back. over 18.7 rounded to 19 seconds would give 57 ultimate.
This means that I'd need to earn 110 ULT to cast Light's Champion again, and 143 ULT to cast Veil of Blades again.
However, if you increased the cost of Light's Champion any further, you might devalue it for my class entirely, which realistically is ok. This is why we have multiple classes after all, diversity.
In your opinion, if they did increase the ULT cost of Light's Champion further, what class/scenario would it be useful for if any?
Different classes means diversity?! Heck no! No Executes on Dks or Wardens, screw Dem defensive ults (we all gotta be diverse damage dealers...) But we gotta nerf, birds, frag, cloak, wings, bol, trees, sub assault... Essentially EVERY CLASS specific ability that promotes diversity.
This is ZoS' stance on diversity, " F - diversity" warden pve dps? Buahhahahaha! Warden healer? Buahahhahaha! Anything defensive BAHAHSHSBSHSBSBSBSBFKGJFJDJDN1 -
DeHei✭✭✭✭✭When lights champions costs would go up to 200, i would prefer it instead of any templar class ultimates, because they are all really crappy...
I think the Restroult should only give the caster major protection, no more this kritbuff and only give heals to ally targets, but no buffs.. Then it would work fine.
On thst way this 125 ultimate costs would be fair and we could hold a good cheap defending ultimate..Edited by DeHei on October 17, 2017 7:49PMDeHei - EP Magicka Templar AllrounderDe Hei(Youtube)0 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭When lights champions costs would go up to 200, i would prefer it instead of any templar class ultimates, because they are all really crappy...
I think the Restroult should only give the caster major protection, no more this kritbuff and only give heals to ally targets, but no buffs.. Then it would work fine.
It's not fair to compare the @#$& ults to prove over performance by a good Ult.
Resto vs trees is fair comparison for example
But you can't like compare Atronach to Incap, because Incap is so much better.
I mean you can make a strong argument as to why the @#$& should be buffedEdited by Waffennacht on October 17, 2017 7:56PM0 -
DeHei✭✭✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »When lights champions costs would go up to 200, i would prefer it instead of any templar class ultimates, because they are all really crappy...
I think the Restroult should only give the caster major protection, no more this kritbuff and only give heals to ally targets, but no buffs.. Then it would work fine.
It's not fair to compare the @#$& ults to prove over performance by a good Ult.
Resto vs trees is fair comparison for example
But you can't like compare Atronach to Incap, because once Incap is so much better.
I mean you can make a strong argument as to why the @#$& should be buffed
My argumrnts are, we dont have balance between classes. In PvP especially Templar dont have just 1 ultimate, which you really want to use.. But we all need 1 defensive ultimate to survive burstdamage..
Some guys (prefered nightblades) argumentate for overperformed restorationstaffult, but have on the other hand the cheapest ultimate, what is allready the best singletargedamageult.. I dont know, but i would say 99% of all nightblades use that ultimate..
The balance is going more worse again with increasing costs from this low cost defending ultimates, when not all classes have good class ultimates..
And dont make me laugh, when you talk about empowering sweep or templar healingult...DeHei - EP Magicka Templar AllrounderDe Hei(Youtube)0 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
What does this has anything to do with thread's topic.Restorationstaffult should just give the caster major protection only Deleat the kritdamagebuff... then we hold a counter for massive burstdamage from especially nightblades and this ult isnt so strong anymore..
We need this cheap defensive ultimates to react fast against very strong and much cheaper offensive ultimates!
There was a time when we didnt have cheap defensive "u cant kill me" ults and PVP was a million times better. If they are going to be "you cant kill me" buttons they should be expensive or have major drawbacks. Thats what promotes skilled gameplay and reaction to what is actually happening. You know its expensive, you think twice before you use it and you make the most out it. When they are cheap they do the exact opposite. There is no thinking or reacting to offensive ults. You just pop them whenever you feel like it cause who cares. 20 seconds later they will be up again.
Yes maybe. But only nightblades have the offensive answer to this defensive ultimates against single targets. Sorcs can go offensiv too in reason of shieldstacking.
What we have as Templar, DK and Warden? Only warden have another ultimate, which works fine defensive. We dont have the balance for some classes... with increasing this defensive ultimstes we buff again this allready superior classes!
For me it looks like *** again. For example Templar dont have just 1 classultimate, which is really useful in all situations.. offensive i go with drawbreaker or soulstrike and defensive with restorationstaffult for PvP...
All classes need better singletarget ultimates like nightblades... only then i would really agree what you said..
Nightblades and sorcs have better burst single target potential because they are designed around burst. They should have more dmg because they lack other things. If you like playing with high single target burst then im sorry but you are playing the wrong class.
NBs and sorcs are the two classes mostly crutching on resto ult. There is a huge difference between playing with or without that ult. A sorc being pressured and almost dying isnt easy to recover. They have the worst self healing capabilities. They cant just heal from zero to full in 2 seconds. But resto ult can do exactly that for them. Taking away resto ult doesnt buff them because you cant heal their burst. If you are better than they are ull outheal it anw. But it is nerfing them hard because it makes it infinitely easier for you to kill them if you outplay them. Some times you are better of using resto ult as ur main ult. Thats how OP it is on sorc.
You are talking about class balance but its impossible to achieve class balance with such abilities/mechanics. Just look at stamDKs. Crutching on stupid mechanics because they have to, they become unkillable tanks and perceived as strong when in fact nothing they do is because of their class.
One of the biggest problems you described here. They have most burst potencial, but also have the highest survivalbility in game, because of good escaps and the reason, that for example the healingstaffskilltree is stronger then the templarskilltree. Everybody have access to it and at same time for example the healingeffects for templar got only nerfed. DKs and Templar atm need to play this tanky ***, because of no diversity. Try to play them offensiv without class escapes... the only thing you can do is for example using the vampire skillline.
But what is that? They should have simply same possibilities for burst, when the "burstclasses" have same options for survivalbility! Then we could start to speak "its a way to become a balanced game, especially in PvP"!!!
A Sorc building towards the class's strengths will be significantly more squishy than a Templar doing the same. If you decide to play a high damage Templar at the cost of defense, that's on you. Ask for changes to your class that will allow for more different playstyles, instead of crying over those classes that already have what you're after.
Definition of the templarclass actually in PvP: A walking dummie in heavy armor and good selfheal!
That is exactly that, what templar are, when i go with META.. i need to jump in in meleerange in the hope to survive it.
I ask since 1 year for good changes to my mainclass, but i only see nerfs or changes from useless skills to similar useless ones like in our actually next update. Nothing what would really change anything...
When i would play META, its one of the most boring gameplays. I dont would be killable in 1vs1, but i just would be able to kill scrubs... If the solution just would be to reroll nightblades and sorcs, then you will see only this 2 classes finally in some years in PvP!Restorationstaffult should just give the caster major protection only Deleat the kritdamagebuff... then we hold a counter for massive burstdamage from especially nightblades and this ult isnt so strong anymore..
We need this cheap defensive ultimates to react fast against very strong and much cheaper offensive ultimates!
There was a time when we didnt have cheap defensive "u cant kill me" ults and PVP was a million times better. If they are going to be "you cant kill me" buttons they should be expensive or have major drawbacks. Thats what promotes skilled gameplay and reaction to what is actually happening. You know its expensive, you think twice before you use it and you make the most out it. When they are cheap they do the exact opposite. There is no thinking or reacting to offensive ults. You just pop them whenever you feel like it cause who cares. 20 seconds later they will be up again.
Yes maybe. But only nightblades have the offensive answer to this defensive ultimates against single targets. Sorcs can go offensiv too in reason of shieldstacking.
What we have as Templar, DK and Warden? Only warden have another ultimate, which works fine defensive. We dont have the balance for some classes... with increasing this defensive ultimstes we buff again this allready superior classes!
For me it looks like *** again. For example Templar dont have just 1 classultimate, which is really useful in all situations.. offensive i go with drawbreaker or soulstrike and defensive with restorationstaffult for PvP...
All classes need better singletarget ultimates like nightblades... only then i would really agree what you said..
Nightblades and sorcs have better burst single target potential because they are designed around burst. They should have more dmg because they lack other things. If you like playing with high single target burst then im sorry but you are playing the wrong class.
NBs and sorcs are the two classes mostly crutching on resto ult. There is a huge difference between playing with or without that ult. A sorc being pressured and almost dying isnt easy to recover. They have the worst self healing capabilities. They cant just heal from zero to full in 2 seconds. But resto ult can do exactly that for them. Taking away resto ult doesnt buff them because you cant heal their burst. If you are better than they are ull outheal it anw. But it is nerfing them hard because it makes it infinitely easier for you to kill them if you outplay them. Some times you are better of using resto ult as ur main ult. Thats how OP it is on sorc.
You are talking about class balance but its impossible to achieve class balance with such abilities/mechanics. Just look at stamDKs. Crutching on stupid mechanics because they have to, they become unkillable tanks and perceived as strong when in fact nothing they do is because of their class.
One of the biggest problems you described here. They have most burst potencial, but also have the highest survivalbility in game, because of good escaps and the reason, that for example the healingstaffskilltree is stronger then the templarskilltree. Everybody have access to it and at same time for example the healingeffects for templar got only nerfed. DKs and Templar atm need to play this tanky ***, because of no diversity. Try to play them offensiv without class escapes... the only thing you can do is for example using the vampire skillline.
But what is that? They should have simply same possibilities for burst, when the "burstclasses" have same options for survivalbility! Then we could start to speak "its a way to become a balanced game, especially in PvP"!!!
They dont have the highest survivability in the game but I understand why you feel its this way since your build is hardcountered by builds with good mobility. Im not saying that those classes are perfect, shieldstacking is stupid and it should be removed so sorcs are the super mobile but very squishy class.
And yes NBs and sorcs have been generally on the top when it comes to solo open world PVP. But thats because of the nature of PVP and how it synergizes with those classes. Its not a class balance issue. Thats just how the classes are designed. If mobility and burst wasnt that important then sorcs and NB would be in a disadvantage compared to templar and DK. That doesnt mean that they should have burst heals or whatever to just turtle up and soak dmg like a DK or a templar for example.
Again, im not saying that the classes are perfect. There are issues with shieldstacking and class defining defensive abilities like scales being useless. But thats what they should fix. Not make all classes the same. The problem is that to get to that position where you can actually address those issues first you have to remove all those stupid abilities, mechanics that drastically affect the classes in a bunch of different ways so the class advantages/weaknesses start showing up.
Im playing with resto ult and im telling you. Its beyond broken on sorc and it gives you the illusion that the class has good healing and facetanking capabilities when that couldnt be further from the truth.
Exactly this is the problem. This 2 classes are so *** strong.. so the others need to go more defensive to compensate it. Isnt a special think from my build. I cant handle very mobility targets, because they can easiliy dodge my aoe fields. That isnt a problem for me, but my class in general isnt able to defeat a good played magicka sorc or magicka nightblade. Really good played stamina nightblades are a problem too.. we need to spam our burstheal over seconds, not to die in a combo, which can be used from this class all 15sec without a special ultregbuild...
Now again to this thread. A lot of guys are thinking, that we dont need this cheap defending ultimates.. but its wrong in reason of that burstdamage this superior classes can do. Its allready not possible to handle extremly offensive builds without this ultimates. I am interested in good fights and that need just a bit balance. This could mean, that all ultimates need costs increase to use them more as a tactical element and not (again) like nightblades as 11th skill in your rotation!
This could also mean, that all classes need a similar ultimate like nightblades allready have for singletarget!
The other point, highest survivalbility in reason of cloak, which interupts some rotations and also let the nightblade for example dodge the purifying light damage. Sorcs can use teleport with ball of lightning (without a cooldown) and this is an escape and protect them 2 sec for every direct cast! This is just a joke!
Yes it is mainly the build you chose to play. Templars are not forced into ground based AOE builds. That was ur choice. And meta templar builds can manage sorc burst fairly easy while also having more than enough dmg to take the shields down.
You are prety much asking for a complete redesign of classes because you dont want to change ur build.
Ok a secret for you, did you ever challanged some of the best nightblades or sorcs on PC/EU or where ever you play?
I know 1 META templar who can manage the strongest stamina nightblade, but i really dont know just 1 who could beat the best magicka sorc and nightblade... Its simply not possible as templar.. Doesnt matter how i play, i dont have the tools for that. I allready beat that ones who are allready very good, but not these guys, who perfected there class..
We are talking about actual open world PVP here. Not duelling with heavy armor or pets and a bunch of stupid mechanics that everyone abuse.
What i still dont understand is why you complain about not being able to kill the best players in the game. People that as you said, perfected their class. So what is the issue if they are winning? I dont get it. Why does everyone want to kill everyone and when they cant, they complain that its a class issue and they ask for literally a class redesign while completely ignoring every other aspect of the game.
2 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Brutusmax1mus wrote: »Brutusmax1mus wrote: »Gilliamtherogue wrote: »Gilliamtherogue wrote: »125 ulti for a Breath of Life heal tick every 1s for 5s (up to 10 if solo) WITH MOBILE Major Protection AND Force is pretty stupid. One of the most over loaded ultimates in the game.
Looking at other ultimates that have Major Protection;
Consuming Darkness & Morphs - Major Protection for up to 6 players for 16 seconds in a stationary setting. 200 ulti cost. Only heals if user is low health and prompts a synergy. One more doubles Major prot on caster, other does pitiful damage. Can be Negated.
Sleet Storm & Morphs - Major Protection for caster and up to 5 players for 8 seconds in a mobile setting. 200 ulti cost. Deals pitiful damage. One morph stuns if targets are hit consecutively by the damage portion (6 nearest targets, will update if those 6 nearest targets change, but will not actively stun other targets), the other passively adds 8% Magicka to the caster for slotting. Cannot be Negated.
So we have two settings of Major Protection having twice as much ulti cost as live (100 on live, 125 when CWC goes live), with no Major Force or massive healing enabled. The only form of Major Protection that lasts longer is a stationary setting that either does pathetic damage or gives the caster some more mitigation, while still being vulnerable to negation.
Suggestions;
Option A -Increase cost of Light's Champion to 175 (leave Panacea and Lifebringer at 125). This gives an option to have buffs AND immense healing but at the cost of a longer pay out (have to build up extra ulti), OR a very solid defensive heal that saves some global cooldowns and Magicka.
Option B - Remove Major Protection completely from Light's Champion. Leave ulti cost at 125 for all morphs. This leaves Light's Champion as a strong "Oh [snip]" button with its redonkulous healing, while also adding a distinction of group utility vs selfish saved resources.
Option C -Change Major Protection and Force to Minor Protection and Force on Light's Champion. Leave ulti cost at 125 for all morphs. This brings down raw mitigation of the skill while still retaining a chunk of it, but also takes away from some of the offensive power of Major Force. This is the poorest balance option in my opinion, as Major Force is only 5% more CHD compared to Minor Force, and it also applies to Healing.
No offense but you should stick to pve theorycrafting
So no rebutal to the facts I pointed out? Anyone with eyes and understanding can see Resto Ult is very overloaded to other similar ultimates. It doesn't matter what kind of player you are to see that, as long as you have half a brain.
I'll come at you. Try casting the resto ultimate even you're being attacked and need it while in a full group. Good luck getting more than one of those heals. You're argument is based on solo or very scale, with 2 or 3 ppl.
Solo like duels or 1vx where you can guarantee you get all ticks, the resto ultimate is incredible. However, the more people you have around you, the more it becomes a support ultimate and is not over performing. If you're in a group of four, it heals 2 ppl twice, and two ppl once, over 6 seconds, you're essentially just supporting the group with buffs as if you need to be healing all 4 or more people you're going to need to supplement the resto ultimate with other healing skills.
Where as it can also heal one person in your group, do only 1 person gets the buffs!!! That's not op
[Edited for quote]
Thats like trying to take down zergs with single target abilities and then complaining why you cant kill zergs and blame the abilities you are using.
Abilities are not considered OP only when they are overperforming in every aspect of the game. That would mean that all abilities are balanced.
I never said overpowered, i said incredible. You can't balance a game like this and expect certain skills not to shine in certain environments. Resto ult only shines very very very small scale or solo. Its mediocre and unreliable in medium to large scale. In terms of this game, that's balanced.
What if it healed all 6 heals instantly to 6 different people, would that be more balanced to you? Many scenarios where that could be better or less effective.
Yes it is overpowered and no thats not balance. Thats ur own definition of balance which makes absolutely no sense. Certain skills are best utilized in certain aspects of the game. That doesnt make them balanced because they are not "incredible" at everything.
If i had an ability that its instant cast 10k guaranteed dmg single target it doesnt mean its balanced because in zergs its not that useful. Thats one of the most stupid arguments ive seen in these forums.Edited by pieratsos on October 17, 2017 10:17PM2 -
NyassaV✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭If we are trying to make class skills more appealing then why not make nightblade's soul siphon cost 110 ult or something?Flawless Conqueror ~ Grand OverlordShe/Her ~ PC/NA | I record things for fun and for info0 -
SanTii.92✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Cause the class is already pretty busted.If we are trying to make class skills more appealing then why not make nightblade's soul siphon cost 110 ult or something?When the snows fall and the white winds blow,
the lone wolf dies, but the pack survives.
Arg | Pc Na | Factionless Mag Warden.0 -
sly007✭✭✭✭warden ultimate is fine. Resto ulti should not be compared to a class ultimate. Warden ultimate can be negated, resto can not. Warden ultimate is stationary, resto is not, there warden most be aimed and the resto ultimate does not have to be.
Why do you think everyone choose lights champion over the other morph that cast all the resto skills. I keep reading about more healing for the warden ultimate but if you wanted more healing potential, the other resto ultimate if available. But no, everyone chose lights champion because they one that a cheap cost for major projection and major force goes farther than more healing.
The warden ultimate heals more people, yes, but if you think just sitting in the warden ulti is enough to keep you alive from 2 or 3 forces fire from dps, then you must be mistaken. The healing of the ultimate has been reduced by a third. That is a massive nerf. Not I doubt a player could even survive the burst of 1 good dps simply by standing the in warden ultimate.
The resto ultimate keep its healing strength, major protection, and major force. As a self heal, magicka warden have no reason to use the their healing ultimate anymore. It is a problem when players are choosing a weapon skill over a class skill becuse it can't compete.3