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Siphoner CP Passive PTS v3.2.3
Kilandros
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ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »
Champion System
- The Tower
- Siphoner: Reverted this champion passive’s values back to 15% at 100-points, but it now reduces all resource restore effects on the enemy. This includes potions, item sets, and ability passives.
This is honestly one of the worst changes I've ever seen made to this game. This is going to affect class sustain from things, presumably, like Battle Roar, Refreshing Shadows, Channeled Focus, and Dark Deal and sets like Seducer, Alteration Mastery, Lich, etc.. EVERY SINGLE PATCH ZOS IS KILLING SMALL-SCALE PVP AND ENCOURAGING ZERGING WITH BAD DESIGN DECISIONS LIKE THIS.
This is why I hate the CP system. It has single handedly thrown game balance out of the window. And now you're using a broken system to balance itself out with passives like this that just encourage people to sit in the middle of a zerg and spam bow light attacks.
Invictus
Kilandros - Dragonknight / Grand Overlord
Deimos - Templar / Grand Warlord
Sias - Sorcerer / Prefect
DK IS NOT JUST A TANK CLASS. #PLAYTHEWAYYOUWANT
Kilandros - Dragonknight / Grand Overlord
Deimos - Templar / Grand Warlord
Sias - Sorcerer / Prefect
ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Short answer is DKs likely won't be seeing a ton of changes before we go live; this class is still quite powerful (as it should be being a tank), even after some of the adjustments we've made to other classes and abilities.
DK IS NOT JUST A TANK CLASS. #PLAYTHEWAYYOUWANT
16
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Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »
Champion System- The Tower
- Siphoner: Reverted this champion passive’s values back to 15% at 100-points, but it now reduces all resource restore effects on the enemy. This includes potions, item sets, and ability passives.
This is honestly one of the worst changes I've ever seen made to this game. This is going to affect class sustain from things, presumably, like Battle Roar, Refreshing Shadows, Channeled Focus, and Dark Deal. EVERY SINGLE PATCH ZOS IS KILLING SMALL-SCALE PVP AND ENCOURAGING ZERGING WITH BAD DESIGN DECISIONS LIKE THIS.
This is why I hate the CP system. It has single handedly thrown game balance out of the window. And now you're using a broken system to balance itself out with passives like this that just encourage people to sit in the middle of a zerg and spam bow light attacks.
Agreed. Just terrible.
But then again, everyone should just leave it at 1% this way any trolls running 10-15% won't get their bonus because it will probably still refresh on each new light/heavy attack.
Call it a protest on a terrible change that will impact casual players more than experienced players.Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual1 - The Tower
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Kilandros✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Eh. It's an effort against permablocking. Not many people will run this I guess, 100 Cp is alot.
Just put like 30 points into the passive for a 10% bonus. That's a 10% reduction to the effectiveness of Battle Roar, to Helping Hands, to sets like Seducer. Think about that for a second man, look at how far-reaching a debuff this is now. It affects everything.
Edited by Kilandros on October 9, 2017 9:25PMInvictus
Kilandros - Dragonknight / Grand Overlord
Deimos - Templar / Grand Warlord
Sias - Sorcerer / PrefectZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Short answer is DKs likely won't be seeing a ton of changes before we go live; this class is still quite powerful (as it should be being a tank), even after some of the adjustments we've made to other classes and abilities.
DK IS NOT JUST A TANK CLASS. #PLAYTHEWAYYOUWANT3 -
Elsterchen✭✭✭✭✭
✭Its a free poison for everyone ... with a very good uptime and an extra slot for some weapon dmg/healing/etc potion.
This should not be the way to balance things out, imo.1 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Am i the only "smallscaler" that thinks this is a good change?<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 5018 -
Kilandros✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Invictus
Kilandros - Dragonknight / Grand Overlord
Deimos - Templar / Grand Warlord
Sias - Sorcerer / PrefectZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Short answer is DKs likely won't be seeing a ton of changes before we go live; this class is still quite powerful (as it should be being a tank), even after some of the adjustments we've made to other classes and abilities.
DK IS NOT JUST A TANK CLASS. #PLAYTHEWAYYOUWANT4 -
SodanTok✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Good change in overall balance. Given ZoS was set on having the passive there anyway (and did for many months) it is much better that it counters at least everyone and not just regen builds.
Tho it should have accompanied removal/nerf of cost poisons
10% is at 43 points btwEdited by SodanTok on October 9, 2017 9:30PM4 -
Takes-No-Prisoner✭✭✭✭✭
✭Good change in overall balance. Given ZoS was set on having the passive there anyway (and did for many months) it is much better that it counters at least everyone and not just regen builds.
10% is at 43 points btw
Yeah I was gonna say, to get it high enough you have to spend a lot.
What was the activation for it? On light/ heavy attacks and how many seconds? I plum forgot about how this star works on paper.0 -
Kilandros✭✭✭✭✭
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Well in that case feel free to enlighten us as to how this is good for small-scale PvP.Invictus
Kilandros - Dragonknight / Grand Overlord
Deimos - Templar / Grand Warlord
Sias - Sorcerer / PrefectZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Short answer is DKs likely won't be seeing a ton of changes before we go live; this class is still quite powerful (as it should be being a tank), even after some of the adjustments we've made to other classes and abilities.
DK IS NOT JUST A TANK CLASS. #PLAYTHEWAYYOUWANT0 -
SodanTok✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Takes-No-Prisoner wrote: »Good change in overall balance. Given ZoS was set on having the passive there anyway (and did for many months) it is much better that it counters at least everyone and not just regen builds.
10% is at 43 points btw
Yeah I was gonna say, to get it high enough you have to spend a lot.
What was the activation for it? On light/ heavy attacks and how many seconds? I plum forgot about how this star works on paper.
3 seconds on light/heavy. Not stackable, but apparently it gets overwritten by others so still pretty much useless outside of duels/small group fights.0 -
Kilandros✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Takes-No-Prisoner wrote: »Good change in overall balance. Given ZoS was set on having the passive there anyway (and did for many months) it is much better that it counters at least everyone and not just regen builds.
10% is at 43 points btw
Yeah I was gonna say, to get it high enough you have to spend a lot.
What was the activation for it? On light/ heavy attacks and how many seconds? I plum forgot about how this star works on paper.
3 seconds on light/heavy. Not stackable, but apparently it gets overwritten by others so still pretty much useless outside of duels/small group fights.
On the contrary, it's biggest use it when you're outnumbered and someone is spamming bow light attacks on you from 40m away.Invictus
Kilandros - Dragonknight / Grand Overlord
Deimos - Templar / Grand Warlord
Sias - Sorcerer / PrefectZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Short answer is DKs likely won't be seeing a ton of changes before we go live; this class is still quite powerful (as it should be being a tank), even after some of the adjustments we've made to other classes and abilities.
DK IS NOT JUST A TANK CLASS. #PLAYTHEWAYYOUWANT2 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭So for templars, does this mean we will lose some effectiveness on our cost reduction passive?
I know it says "resorce return" in their change notes. But who knows lol.Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual1 -
Maryal✭✭✭✭✭
✭yea, this is gong to make using the new agony heal (cough cough) even more fun to use. Hilarious actually!0 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭OP has a point.
The whole reason why ZoS reworked the Champion System in Morrowind was so each and every star would have a counter. Now that is no longer the case as this ... this (trying to be real polite here) Champion System ... is now effecting stuff beyond what is was intended to and corrupting the base values of the game.
So go ahead and cheer this on for encouraging small scale. It's the zerglings that will be corrupting all your resource sustain, not the other way around.Make Rush of Agony "Monsters only." People should not be consecutively crowd controlled in a PvP setting. Period.6 -
Takes-No-Prisoner✭✭✭✭✭
✭Takes-No-Prisoner wrote: »Good change in overall balance. Given ZoS was set on having the passive there anyway (and did for many months) it is much better that it counters at least everyone and not just regen builds.
10% is at 43 points btw
Yeah I was gonna say, to get it high enough you have to spend a lot.
What was the activation for it? On light/ heavy attacks and how many seconds? I plum forgot about how this star works on paper.
3 seconds on light/heavy. Not stackable, but apparently it gets overwritten by others so still pretty much useless outside of duels/small group fights.
Does it have any cooldown? And does it apply onto the target even if the target; has Magicka Shields, or is Blocking, or dodging etc. Thanks for the reply.0 -
bubbygink✭✭✭✭✭
Well first let me say that I agree with you that no-CP is better than CP. So I agree with you that the CP system is flawed. But IMO this change gives us something to help counteract some of those infinite sustain block/heal tanks that make small scale and 1vX very difficult - it is hard to 1vX or play in a small group when every enemy is built to be insanely tanky with infinite resources.
I also think this will make BGs at least be a bit better off if they do insist on keeping them CP enabled. Now we will have a bit more in the toolkit to counteract the insane tanks.Edited by bubbygink on October 9, 2017 9:39PM1 -
SodanTok✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Takes-No-Prisoner wrote: »Good change in overall balance. Given ZoS was set on having the passive there anyway (and did for many months) it is much better that it counters at least everyone and not just regen builds.
10% is at 43 points btw
Yeah I was gonna say, to get it high enough you have to spend a lot.
What was the activation for it? On light/ heavy attacks and how many seconds? I plum forgot about how this star works on paper.
3 seconds on light/heavy. Not stackable, but apparently it gets overwritten by others so still pretty much useless outside of duels/small group fights.
On the contrary, it's biggest use it when you're outnumbered and someone is spamming bow light attacks on you from 40m away.
Yeah, then someone else will spam another light attack with 0.5% and make it void. If that's how it works currently. Which I must say, to your obvious disagreement, should not.0 -
Kilandros✭✭✭✭✭
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Well first let me say that I agree with you that no-CP is better than CP. So I agree with you that the CP system is flawed. But IMO this change gives us something to help counteract some of those infinite sustain block/heal tanks that make small scale and 1vX very difficult - it is hard to 1vX or play in a small group when every enemy is built to be insanely tanky with infinite resources.
This will actually do almost nothing to counteract those permablock builds though because those builds can still stack Sturdy + Defensive Posture and Spam Spell Wall on cooldown.
If they want to nerf permablock, nerf Spell Wall FFS. Changes like this just hurt smaller groups who already struggle to maintain resources when fighting outnumbered.Invictus
Kilandros - Dragonknight / Grand Overlord
Deimos - Templar / Grand Warlord
Sias - Sorcerer / PrefectZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Short answer is DKs likely won't be seeing a ton of changes before we go live; this class is still quite powerful (as it should be being a tank), even after some of the adjustments we've made to other classes and abilities.
DK IS NOT JUST A TANK CLASS. #PLAYTHEWAYYOUWANT4 -
NBrookus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭It also disproportionately affects templars, who can't effectively light attack weave with a channelled spammable.1 -
SodanTok✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Takes-No-Prisoner wrote: »Takes-No-Prisoner wrote: »Good change in overall balance. Given ZoS was set on having the passive there anyway (and did for many months) it is much better that it counters at least everyone and not just regen builds.
10% is at 43 points btw
Yeah I was gonna say, to get it high enough you have to spend a lot.
What was the activation for it? On light/ heavy attacks and how many seconds? I plum forgot about how this star works on paper.
3 seconds on light/heavy. Not stackable, but apparently it gets overwritten by others so still pretty much useless outside of duels/small group fights.
Does it have any cooldown? And does it apply onto the target even if the target; has Magicka Shields, or is Blocking, or dodging etc. Thanks for the reply.
I use it just with 1point (purge waste and stuff), but I think it applies every time your light attack hits the targets (and refreshes the debuff) so not dodges, but yes to everything else. No cooldown.
Not sure if you can apply it on many targets at once. I dont usually spam light attacks in 3sec span on many targets and I never bothered trying it intentionally.Edited by SodanTok on October 9, 2017 9:42PM1 -
Xsorus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Again, you're giving up your own sustain to fool with this node...Personally I won't dump 43 points into this when i can dump it in far better nodes.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXpX7JMwRXtczc5GTrIYRIw
ESO and GW2 PvP videos3 -
bubbygink✭✭✭✭✭
Well first let me say that I agree with you that no-CP is better than CP. So I agree with you that the CP system is flawed. But IMO this change gives us something to help counteract some of those infinite sustain block/heal tanks that make small scale and 1vX very difficult - it is hard to 1vX or play in a small group when every enemy is built to be insanely tanky with infinite resources.
This will actually do almost nothing to counteract those permablock builds though because those builds can still stack Sturdy + Defensive Posture and Spam Spell Wall on cooldown.
If they want to nerf permablock, nerf Spell Wall FFS. Changes like this just hurt smaller groups who already struggle to maintain resources when fighting outnumbered.
I mean you can argue that it effects smaller groups more, but it is ludicrous to say that it does almost nothing to counteract permablock builds. Typically they are DKs. So this will reduce their recovery from potions, battle roar, helping hand, and other sources of sustain. Clearly they will be running out of stamina much quicker.1 -
Kilandros✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Again, you're giving up your own sustain to fool with this node...Personally I won't dump 43 points into this when i can dump it in far better nodes.
Small scalers won't run it because, like you said, you're giving up sustain. So small scalers won't benefit from it. Yet on Live lots of people do run it. I constantly have this debuff on me when I'm outnumbered. So people do use it. The difference is the people who tend to run this passive are the ones who tend to run around in giant blobs.
It's not the good players who will be using this; it's the bad players who are going to pour points into it.Invictus
Kilandros - Dragonknight / Grand Overlord
Deimos - Templar / Grand Warlord
Sias - Sorcerer / PrefectZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Short answer is DKs likely won't be seeing a ton of changes before we go live; this class is still quite powerful (as it should be being a tank), even after some of the adjustments we've made to other classes and abilities.
DK IS NOT JUST A TANK CLASS. #PLAYTHEWAYYOUWANT4 -
Takes-No-Prisoner✭✭✭✭✭
✭Takes-No-Prisoner wrote: »Takes-No-Prisoner wrote: »Good change in overall balance. Given ZoS was set on having the passive there anyway (and did for many months) it is much better that it counters at least everyone and not just regen builds.
10% is at 43 points btw
Yeah I was gonna say, to get it high enough you have to spend a lot.
What was the activation for it? On light/ heavy attacks and how many seconds? I plum forgot about how this star works on paper.
3 seconds on light/heavy. Not stackable, but apparently it gets overwritten by others so still pretty much useless outside of duels/small group fights.
Does it have any cooldown? And does it apply onto the target even if the target; has Magicka Shields, or is Blocking, or dodging etc. Thanks for the reply.
I use it just with 1point (purge waste and stuff), but I think it applies every time your light attack hits the targets (and refreshes the debuff) so not dodges, but yes to everything else. No cooldown.
Not sure if you can apply it on many targets at once. I dont usually spam light attacks in 3sec span on many targets and I never bothered trying it intentionally.
I don't plan on using it, but I do want to know how it works, knowledge is power afterall. Thanks again.0
