Maintenance for the week of May 4:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – May 4
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – May 4
The maintenance is complete, and the PTS is now back online and patch 12.0.3 is available.
Siphoner CP Passive PTS v3.2.3
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Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Well first let me say that I agree with you that no-CP is better than CP. So I agree with you that the CP system is flawed. But IMO this change gives us something to help counteract some of those infinite sustain block/heal tanks that make small scale and 1vX very difficult - it is hard to 1vX or play in a small group when every enemy is built to be insanely tanky with infinite resources.
This will actually do almost nothing to counteract those permablock builds though because those builds can still stack Sturdy + Defensive Posture and Spam Spell Wall on cooldown.
If they want to nerf permablock, nerf Spell Wall FFS. Changes like this just hurt smaller groups who already struggle to maintain resources when fighting outnumbered.
I mean you can argue that it effects smaller groups more, but it is ludicrous to say that it does almost nothing to counteract permablock builds. Typically they are DKs. So this will reduce their recovery from potions, battle roar, helping hand, and other sources of sustain. Clearly they will be running out of stamina much quicker.
But you're wrong, because Permablock builds are entirely built around having Spell Wall up off cooldown. This doesn't increase the cost of Spell Wall. So it changes nothing.
SW is an important part of permablock, but you still need to restore stamina to keep the block up in-between spell walls. Its not like you can have SW up 100% of the time.
You can get it quite close to 100% uptime.
Show me a video of having more than 50% uptime on SW.
Tavas/Dragon/Blood Spawn builds on Live. You're welcome.
You mean the build that won't work anymore once PTS goes live?
You sure about that? Are you sure there isn't another class out there that has a magicka-base variant of Major Evasion? Take a moment, consider it.
You mean the class that does not have battle roar and thus didn't work with this build in the firstplace?
Running into tons of heavy-armored nightblades nowadays, are you?
Why do you need Battle Roar when you regenerate Stamina while Spell Wall is active?
Why are 90% of permablockers you run into nowadays DK's and not nightblades? The answer to these questions is the same - stam regen (in heavy armor!) during those few seconds while your shield wall is up is almost irrelevant.
1 -
Kilandros✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Ragnaroek93 wrote: »Ragnaroek93 wrote: »
Well first let me say that I agree with you that no-CP is better than CP. So I agree with you that the CP system is flawed. But IMO this change gives us something to help counteract some of those infinite sustain block/heal tanks that make small scale and 1vX very difficult - it is hard to 1vX or play in a small group when every enemy is built to be insanely tanky with infinite resources.
This will actually do almost nothing to counteract those permablock builds though because those builds can still stack Sturdy + Defensive Posture and Spam Spell Wall on cooldown.
If they want to nerf permablock, nerf Spell Wall FFS. Changes like this just hurt smaller groups who already struggle to maintain resources when fighting outnumbered.
I mean you can argue that it effects smaller groups more, but it is ludicrous to say that it does almost nothing to counteract permablock builds. Typically they are DKs. So this will reduce their recovery from potions, battle roar, helping hand, and other sources of sustain. Clearly they will be running out of stamina much quicker.
But you're wrong, because Permablock builds are entirely built around having Spell Wall up off cooldown. This doesn't increase the cost of Spell Wall. So it changes nothing.
SW is an important part of permablock, but you still need to restore stamina to keep the block up in-between spell walls. Its not like you can have SW up 100% of the time.
You can get it quite close to 100% uptime.
Show me a video of having more than 50% uptime on SW.
Tavas/Dragon/Blood Spawn builds on Live. You're welcome.
Kewl build. Good luck killing any semi competent player with that. Problem are more full damage builds with Skoria who can still block a ton of stuff.
Edit: Tavas got "nerfed"/pushed out of the meta.
Are you for real? Permablock builds have never been able to kill anything. On the one hand you guys qq about permablock builds, then you qq that they cant kill anything. The fact that people still whine about the handful of permablock builds left in the game is pretty startling since you seem to acknowledge they can't actually kill anything.
I complain about builds who can almost perma block while still have very high damage.
The reason why I like the change: It indirectly nerfs almost everything in this game which I consider overperforming. But keep telling people that they are "filthy zerglings" because they disagree with your opinion.
What builds are currently able to permablock while still having very high damage? Last time I checked, the last block-heavy build that had extremely high damage was the Fury/WW StamDK which died out about 6 months ago.Invictus
Kilandros - Dragonknight / Grand Overlord
Deimos - Templar / Grand Warlord
Sias - Sorcerer / PrefectZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Short answer is DKs likely won't be seeing a ton of changes before we go live; this class is still quite powerful (as it should be being a tank), even after some of the adjustments we've made to other classes and abilities.
DK IS NOT JUST A TANK CLASS. #PLAYTHEWAYYOUWANT2 -
Kilandros✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
Well first let me say that I agree with you that no-CP is better than CP. So I agree with you that the CP system is flawed. But IMO this change gives us something to help counteract some of those infinite sustain block/heal tanks that make small scale and 1vX very difficult - it is hard to 1vX or play in a small group when every enemy is built to be insanely tanky with infinite resources.
This will actually do almost nothing to counteract those permablock builds though because those builds can still stack Sturdy + Defensive Posture and Spam Spell Wall on cooldown.
If they want to nerf permablock, nerf Spell Wall FFS. Changes like this just hurt smaller groups who already struggle to maintain resources when fighting outnumbered.
I mean you can argue that it effects smaller groups more, but it is ludicrous to say that it does almost nothing to counteract permablock builds. Typically they are DKs. So this will reduce their recovery from potions, battle roar, helping hand, and other sources of sustain. Clearly they will be running out of stamina much quicker.
But you're wrong, because Permablock builds are entirely built around having Spell Wall up off cooldown. This doesn't increase the cost of Spell Wall. So it changes nothing.
SW is an important part of permablock, but you still need to restore stamina to keep the block up in-between spell walls. Its not like you can have SW up 100% of the time.
You can get it quite close to 100% uptime.
Show me a video of having more than 50% uptime on SW.
Tavas/Dragon/Blood Spawn builds on Live. You're welcome.
You mean the build that won't work anymore once PTS goes live?
You sure about that? Are you sure there isn't another class out there that has a magicka-base variant of Major Evasion? Take a moment, consider it.
You mean the class that does not have battle roar and thus didn't work with this build in the firstplace?
Running into tons of heavy-armored nightblades nowadays, are you?
Why do you need Battle Roar when you regenerate Stamina while Spell Wall is active?
Why are 90% of permablockers you run into nowadays DK's and not nightblades? The answer to these questions is the same - stam regen (in heavy armor!) during those few seconds while your shield wall is up is almost irrelevant.
I mean, clearly you've never tried permablocking if you actually think that the stamina regen while SW is up is irrelevant.Invictus
Kilandros - Dragonknight / Grand Overlord
Deimos - Templar / Grand Warlord
Sias - Sorcerer / PrefectZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Short answer is DKs likely won't be seeing a ton of changes before we go live; this class is still quite powerful (as it should be being a tank), even after some of the adjustments we've made to other classes and abilities.
DK IS NOT JUST A TANK CLASS. #PLAYTHEWAYYOUWANT0 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Well first let me say that I agree with you that no-CP is better than CP. So I agree with you that the CP system is flawed. But IMO this change gives us something to help counteract some of those infinite sustain block/heal tanks that make small scale and 1vX very difficult - it is hard to 1vX or play in a small group when every enemy is built to be insanely tanky with infinite resources.
This will actually do almost nothing to counteract those permablock builds though because those builds can still stack Sturdy + Defensive Posture and Spam Spell Wall on cooldown.
If they want to nerf permablock, nerf Spell Wall FFS. Changes like this just hurt smaller groups who already struggle to maintain resources when fighting outnumbered.
I mean you can argue that it effects smaller groups more, but it is ludicrous to say that it does almost nothing to counteract permablock builds. Typically they are DKs. So this will reduce their recovery from potions, battle roar, helping hand, and other sources of sustain. Clearly they will be running out of stamina much quicker.
But you're wrong, because Permablock builds are entirely built around having Spell Wall up off cooldown. This doesn't increase the cost of Spell Wall. So it changes nothing.
SW is an important part of permablock, but you still need to restore stamina to keep the block up in-between spell walls. Its not like you can have SW up 100% of the time.
You can get it quite close to 100% uptime.
Show me a video of having more than 50% uptime on SW.
Tavas/Dragon/Blood Spawn builds on Live. You're welcome.
You mean the build that won't work anymore once PTS goes live?
You sure about that? Are you sure there isn't another class out there that has a magicka-base variant of Major Evasion? Take a moment, consider it.
You mean the class that does not have battle roar and thus didn't work with this build in the firstplace?
Running into tons of heavy-armored nightblades nowadays, are you?
Why do you need Battle Roar when you regenerate Stamina while Spell Wall is active?
Why are 90% of permablockers you run into nowadays DK's and not nightblades? The answer to these questions is the same - stam regen (in heavy armor!) during those few seconds while your shield wall is up is almost irrelevant.
I mean, clearly you've never tried permablocking if you actually think that the stamina regen while SW is up is irrelevant.
It is almost irrelevant compared to the stamina returns from battle roar and helping hands.1 -
technohic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Am i the only "smallscaler" that thinks this is a good change?
I like it. I’ve ran into enough permablock high damage builds that ignore standard regen and regen penalty
Really; going by their balance of having an equal counter to every thing in the champion point system; this doesn’t match the philosophy; but the alternative is active debuffs to counter the constitution and active buffs that grant resources but that would hit non-cp where it’s not needed.1 -
Kilandros✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
Well first let me say that I agree with you that no-CP is better than CP. So I agree with you that the CP system is flawed. But IMO this change gives us something to help counteract some of those infinite sustain block/heal tanks that make small scale and 1vX very difficult - it is hard to 1vX or play in a small group when every enemy is built to be insanely tanky with infinite resources.
This will actually do almost nothing to counteract those permablock builds though because those builds can still stack Sturdy + Defensive Posture and Spam Spell Wall on cooldown.
If they want to nerf permablock, nerf Spell Wall FFS. Changes like this just hurt smaller groups who already struggle to maintain resources when fighting outnumbered.
I mean you can argue that it effects smaller groups more, but it is ludicrous to say that it does almost nothing to counteract permablock builds. Typically they are DKs. So this will reduce their recovery from potions, battle roar, helping hand, and other sources of sustain. Clearly they will be running out of stamina much quicker.
But you're wrong, because Permablock builds are entirely built around having Spell Wall up off cooldown. This doesn't increase the cost of Spell Wall. So it changes nothing.
SW is an important part of permablock, but you still need to restore stamina to keep the block up in-between spell walls. Its not like you can have SW up 100% of the time.
You can get it quite close to 100% uptime.
Show me a video of having more than 50% uptime on SW.
Tavas/Dragon/Blood Spawn builds on Live. You're welcome.
You mean the build that won't work anymore once PTS goes live?
You sure about that? Are you sure there isn't another class out there that has a magicka-base variant of Major Evasion? Take a moment, consider it.
You mean the class that does not have battle roar and thus didn't work with this build in the firstplace?
Running into tons of heavy-armored nightblades nowadays, are you?
Why do you need Battle Roar when you regenerate Stamina while Spell Wall is active?
Why are 90% of permablockers you run into nowadays DK's and not nightblades? The answer to these questions is the same - stam regen (in heavy armor!) during those few seconds while your shield wall is up is almost irrelevant.
I mean, clearly you've never tried permablocking if you actually think that the stamina regen while SW is up is irrelevant.
It is almost irrelevant compared to the stamina returns from battle roar and helping hands.
If I have 2k stamina regen, that's 6k stamina over the course of a single Spell Wall. Do you really think that's irrelevant?
7 seconds of blocking = 0 stamina
7 seconds of SW = 6k stamina returnedInvictus
Kilandros - Dragonknight / Grand Overlord
Deimos - Templar / Grand Warlord
Sias - Sorcerer / PrefectZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Short answer is DKs likely won't be seeing a ton of changes before we go live; this class is still quite powerful (as it should be being a tank), even after some of the adjustments we've made to other classes and abilities.
DK IS NOT JUST A TANK CLASS. #PLAYTHEWAYYOUWANT0 -
Ragnaroek93✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Ragnaroek93 wrote: »Ragnaroek93 wrote: »
Well first let me say that I agree with you that no-CP is better than CP. So I agree with you that the CP system is flawed. But IMO this change gives us something to help counteract some of those infinite sustain block/heal tanks that make small scale and 1vX very difficult - it is hard to 1vX or play in a small group when every enemy is built to be insanely tanky with infinite resources.
This will actually do almost nothing to counteract those permablock builds though because those builds can still stack Sturdy + Defensive Posture and Spam Spell Wall on cooldown.
If they want to nerf permablock, nerf Spell Wall FFS. Changes like this just hurt smaller groups who already struggle to maintain resources when fighting outnumbered.
I mean you can argue that it effects smaller groups more, but it is ludicrous to say that it does almost nothing to counteract permablock builds. Typically they are DKs. So this will reduce their recovery from potions, battle roar, helping hand, and other sources of sustain. Clearly they will be running out of stamina much quicker.
But you're wrong, because Permablock builds are entirely built around having Spell Wall up off cooldown. This doesn't increase the cost of Spell Wall. So it changes nothing.
SW is an important part of permablock, but you still need to restore stamina to keep the block up in-between spell walls. Its not like you can have SW up 100% of the time.
You can get it quite close to 100% uptime.
Show me a video of having more than 50% uptime on SW.
Tavas/Dragon/Blood Spawn builds on Live. You're welcome.
Kewl build. Good luck killing any semi competent player with that. Problem are more full damage builds with Skoria who can still block a ton of stuff.
Edit: Tavas got "nerfed"/pushed out of the meta.
Are you for real? Permablock builds have never been able to kill anything. On the one hand you guys qq about permablock builds, then you qq that they cant kill anything. The fact that people still whine about the handful of permablock builds left in the game is pretty startling since you seem to acknowledge they can't actually kill anything.
I complain about builds who can almost perma block while still have very high damage.
The reason why I like the change: It indirectly nerfs almost everything in this game which I consider overperforming. But keep telling people that they are "filthy zerglings" because they disagree with your opinion.
What builds are currently able to permablock while still having very high damage? Last time I checked, the last block-heavy build that had extremely high damage was the Fury/WW StamDK which died out about 6 months ago.
Pretty much every magdk I run into these days (who still wreck over half of my health with a Leap + Skoria). But yeah, they won't permablock against 10 people, which is irrelevant in my scenario because I run around alone most of the time and you simply lack the tools to break block effectively on your own.
What gets nerfed by this change: Heavy armor, heavy attacks, elemental drain, Argonian, meele tank builds and builds without (or with low uptime) on Major Defile have finally a star which can compete with Befoul.Edited by Ragnaroek93 on October 9, 2017 10:30PMI used to think that PvP was a tragedy, but now I realize, it's a comedy.0 -
bubbygink✭✭✭✭✭Ragnaroek93 wrote: »
Pretty much every magdk I run into these days (who still wreck over half of my health with a Leap + Skoria). But yeah, they won't permablock against 10 people, which is irrelevant in my scenario because I run around alone most of the time and you simply lack the tools to break block effectively on your own.
What gets nerfed by this change: Heavy armor, heavy attacks, elemental drain, Argonian, meele tank builds and builds without (or with low uptime) have finally a star which can compete with Befoul.
This is exactly why I like the change too. As I mentioned earlier, it is pretty hard to 1vX and small group when every enemy is practically impossible to kill. I just can't do anything to kill some those Mag DK or other builds that can get 100% block uptime. This will now help immensely for a solo or small scale player to actually drain the resources of those types of builds and be able to take them out.1 -
Kilandros✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Ragnaroek93 wrote: »
Pretty much every magdk I run into these days (who still wreck over half of my health with a Leap + Skoria). But yeah, they won't permablock against 10 people, which is irrelevant in my scenario because I run around alone most of the time and you simply lack the tools to break block effectively on your own.
What gets nerfed by this change: Heavy armor, heavy attacks, elemental drain, Argonian, meele tank builds and builds without (or with low uptime) have finally a star which can compete with Befoul.
This is exactly why I like the change too. As I mentioned earlier, it is pretty hard to 1vX and small group when every enemy is practically impossible to kill. I just can't do anything to kill some those Mag DK or other builds that can get 100% block uptime. This will now help immensely for a solo or small scale player to actually drain the resources of those types of builds and be able to take them out.
If you're 1vXing and focusing the tanks, you don't know how to 1vX. Always go after the squishy ones, the healers. Just leave the permablockers. They can't hurt you anyway.Invictus
Kilandros - Dragonknight / Grand Overlord
Deimos - Templar / Grand Warlord
Sias - Sorcerer / PrefectZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Short answer is DKs likely won't be seeing a ton of changes before we go live; this class is still quite powerful (as it should be being a tank), even after some of the adjustments we've made to other classes and abilities.
DK IS NOT JUST A TANK CLASS. #PLAYTHEWAYYOUWANT2 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
If I have 2k stamina regen, that's 6k stamina over the course of a single Spell Wall. Do you really think that's irrelevant?
7 seconds of blocking = 0 stamina
7 seconds of SW = 6k stamina returned
Heavy armor stam regen is more like 700-900, if you want to have block cost reduction on jewelry and still be able to function as more than just a glorified punching bag.1 -
technohic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Ragnaroek93 wrote: »
Pretty much every magdk I run into these days (who still wreck over half of my health with a Leap + Skoria). But yeah, they won't permablock against 10 people, which is irrelevant in my scenario because I run around alone most of the time and you simply lack the tools to break block effectively on your own.
What gets nerfed by this change: Heavy armor, heavy attacks, elemental drain, Argonian, meele tank builds and builds without (or with low uptime) have finally a star which can compete with Befoul.
This is exactly why I like the change too. As I mentioned earlier, it is pretty hard to 1vX and small group when every enemy is practically impossible to kill. I just can't do anything to kill some those Mag DK or other builds that can get 100% block uptime. This will now help immensely for a solo or small scale player to actually drain the resources of those types of builds and be able to take them out.
If you're 1vXing and focusing the tanks, you don't know how to 1vX. Always go after the squishy ones, the healers. Just leave the permablockers. They can't hurt you anyway.
Thats when you get dragon leaped in the back and nuked by the squishy target whos also stacked damage through the roof.0 -
Ragnaroek93✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Ragnaroek93 wrote: »
Pretty much every magdk I run into these days (who still wreck over half of my health with a Leap + Skoria). But yeah, they won't permablock against 10 people, which is irrelevant in my scenario because I run around alone most of the time and you simply lack the tools to break block effectively on your own.
What gets nerfed by this change: Heavy armor, heavy attacks, elemental drain, Argonian, meele tank builds and builds without (or with low uptime) have finally a star which can compete with Befoul.
This is exactly why I like the change too. As I mentioned earlier, it is pretty hard to 1vX and small group when every enemy is practically impossible to kill. I just can't do anything to kill some those Mag DK or other builds that can get 100% block uptime. This will now help immensely for a solo or small scale player to actually drain the resources of those types of builds and be able to take them out.
If you're 1vXing and focusing the tanks, you don't know how to 1vX. Always go after the squishy ones, the healers. Just leave the permablockers. They can't hurt you anyway.
You don't need to be a full tank to be disgustingly tanky but I'm pretty sure that you know this.
I don't use any ressource gains beside of my stamregen which is fully affected by the current Siphoner. Now other ressource return methods are affected too. What's the problem with that? How is that unbalanced?I used to think that PvP was a tragedy, but now I realize, it's a comedy.0 -
Kilandros✭✭✭✭✭
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If I have 2k stamina regen, that's 6k stamina over the course of a single Spell Wall. Do you really think that's irrelevant?
7 seconds of blocking = 0 stamina
7 seconds of SW = 6k stamina returned
Heavy armor stam regen is more like 700-900, if you want to have block cost reduction on jewelry and still be able to function as more than just a glorified punching bag.
Oh. My. God. You're killing me. If I'm building for high SW uptime, I don't need to invest very much in Block Cost reduction. At this point you're just spitting out low-effort responses and it's getting tiring.
And since when do Permablock tanks do anything beyond act as punching bags. Don't back down now, you've come too far!
This has derailed quite a bit so I'll remind you where we started: I said SW is the reason permablocking is as cancerous as it is, you said nah. Let's get back on track.Edited by Kilandros on October 9, 2017 10:44PMInvictus
Kilandros - Dragonknight / Grand Overlord
Deimos - Templar / Grand Warlord
Sias - Sorcerer / PrefectZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Short answer is DKs likely won't be seeing a ton of changes before we go live; this class is still quite powerful (as it should be being a tank), even after some of the adjustments we've made to other classes and abilities.
DK IS NOT JUST A TANK CLASS. #PLAYTHEWAYYOUWANT0 -
SanTii.92✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Nope, hardly a big issue as OP is trying to make. WIth so many strong green starts who's gonna invest heavily into siphoner.Am i the only "smallscaler" that thinks this is a good change?When the snows fall and the white winds blow,
the lone wolf dies, but the pack survives.
Arg | Pc Na | Factionless Mag Warden.1 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
If I have 2k stamina regen, that's 6k stamina over the course of a single Spell Wall. Do you really think that's irrelevant?
7 seconds of blocking = 0 stamina
7 seconds of SW = 6k stamina returned
Heavy armor stam regen is more like 700-900, if you want to have block cost reduction on jewelry and still be able to function as more than just a glorified punching bag.
Oh. My. God. You're killing me. If I'm building for high SW uptime, I don't need to invest very much in Block Cost reduction. At this point you're just spitting out low-effort responses and it's getting tiring.
Blocking without block cost reduction will eat those 6K stamina of yours in 1.25 seconds(5 hits 1200 cost per, drained every 0.25s). So yes, you do need to invest into block cost reduction.
And i'm still waiting for that 100% spell wall uptime video i asked you for.Edited by Sharee on October 9, 2017 10:45PM1 -
Kilandros✭✭✭✭✭
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I think you give a little bit too much credit to the theorycrafting abilities of the Bow/Bow RP archer who follows a zerg of 20 and plink plinks from the background.Invictus
Kilandros - Dragonknight / Grand Overlord
Deimos - Templar / Grand Warlord
Sias - Sorcerer / PrefectZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Short answer is DKs likely won't be seeing a ton of changes before we go live; this class is still quite powerful (as it should be being a tank), even after some of the adjustments we've made to other classes and abilities.
DK IS NOT JUST A TANK CLASS. #PLAYTHEWAYYOUWANT1 -
Kilandros✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
If I have 2k stamina regen, that's 6k stamina over the course of a single Spell Wall. Do you really think that's irrelevant?
7 seconds of blocking = 0 stamina
7 seconds of SW = 6k stamina returned
Heavy armor stam regen is more like 700-900, if you want to have block cost reduction on jewelry and still be able to function as more than just a glorified punching bag.
Oh. My. God. You're killing me. If I'm building for high SW uptime, I don't need to invest very much in Block Cost reduction. At this point you're just spitting out low-effort responses and it's getting tiring.
Blocking without block cost reduction will eat those 6K stamina of yours in 1.25 seconds(5 hits 1200 cost per, drained every 0.25s). So yes, you do need to invest into block cost reduction.
And i'm still waiting for that 100% spell wall uptime video i asked you for.
And I can do that with Sturdy.Invictus
Kilandros - Dragonknight / Grand Overlord
Deimos - Templar / Grand Warlord
Sias - Sorcerer / PrefectZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Short answer is DKs likely won't be seeing a ton of changes before we go live; this class is still quite powerful (as it should be being a tank), even after some of the adjustments we've made to other classes and abilities.
DK IS NOT JUST A TANK CLASS. #PLAYTHEWAYYOUWANT0 -
Kilandros✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
If I have 2k stamina regen, that's 6k stamina over the course of a single Spell Wall. Do you really think that's irrelevant?
7 seconds of blocking = 0 stamina
7 seconds of SW = 6k stamina returned
Heavy armor stam regen is more like 700-900, if you want to have block cost reduction on jewelry and still be able to function as more than just a glorified punching bag.
Oh. My. God. You're killing me. If I'm building for high SW uptime, I don't need to invest very much in Block Cost reduction. At this point you're just spitting out low-effort responses and it's getting tiring.
Blocking without block cost reduction will eat those 6K stamina of yours in 1.25 seconds(5 hits 1200 cost per, drained every 0.25s). So yes, you do need to invest into block cost reduction.
And i'm still waiting for that 100% spell wall uptime video i asked you for.
Serious question: Why do you need a video? Let's just do the math:
Dragon + Tavas + Bloodspawn + NB
With Dragon, SW cost = 85 Ult
Light attack + Heroic Slash = 4 ult per second. Over 7 seconds = 28 Ult
Bloodspawn = 1 proc every 6 seconds. Generally procs on cooldown, so potentially twice per SW = 14-28 Ult
(I'm already at 53 Ult, just 32 more to go!)
Tavas + Evasion = 9 ult over 3 seconds. This can stack. Over 7 seconds, let's say I dodge 3 attacks (If I'm getting hammered I'm likely getting far more than that) = 27 ult
Total ult gain over 7 seconds = 80 ult
That's pretty good uptime.
Edited by Kilandros on October 9, 2017 10:58PMInvictus
Kilandros - Dragonknight / Grand Overlord
Deimos - Templar / Grand Warlord
Sias - Sorcerer / PrefectZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Short answer is DKs likely won't be seeing a ton of changes before we go live; this class is still quite powerful (as it should be being a tank), even after some of the adjustments we've made to other classes and abilities.
DK IS NOT JUST A TANK CLASS. #PLAYTHEWAYYOUWANT0 -
Ragnaroek93✭✭✭✭✭
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I think you give a little bit too much credit to the theorycrafting abilities of the Bow/Bow RP archer who follows a zerg of 20 and plink plinks from the background.
The Bow/Bow RP archer will be in a better spot balance wise with the new Siphoner than it was before, which is good (still a lot more work to do to make bow/bow viable).
It's funny how elite smallscale players want the game to be balanced around their desires only while pretending that they want to make the game better (better for them and worse for 90% of the playerbase). And no, I don't want to defend zergs but I also have no sympathy for people who think that quality PvP equals "pug slaying" rather than encouraging fair, balanced and exciting fights.I used to think that PvP was a tragedy, but now I realize, it's a comedy.4 -
Kilandros✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Ragnaroek93 wrote: »
I think you give a little bit too much credit to the theorycrafting abilities of the Bow/Bow RP archer who follows a zerg of 20 and plink plinks from the background.
The Bow/Bow RP archer will be in a better spot balance wise with the new Siphoner than it was before, which is good (still a lot more work to do to make bow/bow viable).
It's funny how elite smallscale players want the game to be balanced around their desires only while pretending that they want to make the game better (better for them and worse for 90% of the playerbase). And no, I don't want to defend zergs but I also have no sympathy for people who think that quality PvP equals "pug slaying" rather than encouraging fair, balanced and exciting fights.
To be clear, I don't care how people play. I only ask that my style (small scale) isn't nerfed because ZOS doesn't know how to properly eradicate permablock builds. But that's precisely what this change does. It hurts me, and hardly touches the permablockers.Invictus
Kilandros - Dragonknight / Grand Overlord
Deimos - Templar / Grand Warlord
Sias - Sorcerer / PrefectZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Short answer is DKs likely won't be seeing a ton of changes before we go live; this class is still quite powerful (as it should be being a tank), even after some of the adjustments we've made to other classes and abilities.
DK IS NOT JUST A TANK CLASS. #PLAYTHEWAYYOUWANT0 -
Dorrino✭✭✭✭✭Guys, they are just making Syphoner affect block-reliant specs in addition to the rest.
Before this change med and light armor specs were already debuffed by ~5-10% to their resource returns on the general basis.
Heavy was largely unaffected.
The goal of the Syphoner is obviously to reduce pvp sustain while not affecting pve.
If we suddenly don't like this change we first need to propose an alternative way of nerfing pvp sustain, because i think we can agree that sustain in cp pvp is once again too high:)Edited by Dorrino on October 9, 2017 11:01PM3 -
Kilandros✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Guys, they are just making Syphoner affect block-reliant specs in addition to the rest.
Before this change med and light armor specs were already debuffed by ~5-10% to their resource returns on the general basis.
Heavy was largely unaffected.
The goal of the Syphoner is obviously to reduce pvp sustain while not affecting pve.
If we suddenly don't like this change we first need to propose an alternative way of nerfing pvp sustain, because i think we can agree that sustain in cp pvp is once again too high:)
Increase the cost of Spell Wall to 150-175 Ult. That would be the first step in the right direction.Invictus
Kilandros - Dragonknight / Grand Overlord
Deimos - Templar / Grand Warlord
Sias - Sorcerer / PrefectZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Short answer is DKs likely won't be seeing a ton of changes before we go live; this class is still quite powerful (as it should be being a tank), even after some of the adjustments we've made to other classes and abilities.
DK IS NOT JUST A TANK CLASS. #PLAYTHEWAYYOUWANT2 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
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If I have 2k stamina regen, that's 6k stamina over the course of a single Spell Wall. Do you really think that's irrelevant?
7 seconds of blocking = 0 stamina
7 seconds of SW = 6k stamina returned
Heavy armor stam regen is more like 700-900, if you want to have block cost reduction on jewelry and still be able to function as more than just a glorified punching bag.
Oh. My. God. You're killing me. If I'm building for high SW uptime, I don't need to invest very much in Block Cost reduction. At this point you're just spitting out low-effort responses and it's getting tiring.
Blocking without block cost reduction will eat those 6K stamina of yours in 1.25 seconds(5 hits 1200 cost per, drained every 0.25s). So yes, you do need to invest into block cost reduction.
And i'm still waiting for that 100% spell wall uptime video i asked you for.
Serious question: Why do you need a video? Let's just do the math:
Dragon + Tavas + Bloodspawn + NB
With Dragon, SW cost = 85 Ult
Light attack + Heroic Slash = 4 ult per second. Over 7 seconds = 28 Ult
Bloodspawn = 1 proc every 6 seconds. Generally procs on cooldown, so potentially twice per SW = 14-28 Ult
(I'm already at 53 Ult, just 32 more to go!)
Tavas + Evasion = 9 ult over 3 seconds. This can stack. Over 7 seconds, let's say I dodge 3 attacks (If I'm getting hammered I'm likely getting far more than that) = 27 ult
Total ult gain over 7 seconds = 80 ult
That's pretty good uptime.
I asked for a video because reality often does not correspond to (overly generous) theorycrafting.
For example, in your above calculation, you not only assumed that bloodspawn always procs on cooldown (aka 100% proc on a 15% proc chance set), you also assumed that it always procs just one second after you activated shield wall (thats the only way to get 2 procs in the duration of SW). And then on top of that, a 15% chance evade event happens 3 times within the same 7 seconds.
Is it possible? Yes. Is it likely? Well, show me that video.
(I bet if such video existed, it would already have it's own thread on top of this forum with 15 pages of replies)2 -
Kilandros✭✭✭✭✭
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If I have 2k stamina regen, that's 6k stamina over the course of a single Spell Wall. Do you really think that's irrelevant?
7 seconds of blocking = 0 stamina
7 seconds of SW = 6k stamina returned
Heavy armor stam regen is more like 700-900, if you want to have block cost reduction on jewelry and still be able to function as more than just a glorified punching bag.
Oh. My. God. You're killing me. If I'm building for high SW uptime, I don't need to invest very much in Block Cost reduction. At this point you're just spitting out low-effort responses and it's getting tiring.
Blocking without block cost reduction will eat those 6K stamina of yours in 1.25 seconds(5 hits 1200 cost per, drained every 0.25s). So yes, you do need to invest into block cost reduction.
And i'm still waiting for that 100% spell wall uptime video i asked you for.
Serious question: Why do you need a video? Let's just do the math:
Dragon + Tavas + Bloodspawn + NB
With Dragon, SW cost = 85 Ult
Light attack + Heroic Slash = 4 ult per second. Over 7 seconds = 28 Ult
Bloodspawn = 1 proc every 6 seconds. Generally procs on cooldown, so potentially twice per SW = 14-28 Ult
(I'm already at 53 Ult, just 32 more to go!)
Tavas + Evasion = 9 ult over 3 seconds. This can stack. Over 7 seconds, let's say I dodge 3 attacks (If I'm getting hammered I'm likely getting far more than that) = 27 ult
Total ult gain over 7 seconds = 80 ult
That's pretty good uptime.
I asked for a video because reality often does not correspond to (overly generous) theorycrafting.
For example, in your above calculation, you not only assumed that bloodspawn always procs on cooldown (aka 100% proc on a 15% proc chance set), you also assumed that it always procs just one second after you activated shield wall (thats the only way to get 2 procs in the duration of SW). And then on top of that, a 15% chance evade event happens 3 times within the same 7 seconds.
Is it possible? Yes. Is it likely? Well, show me that video.
(I bet if such video existed, it would already have it's own thread on top of this forum with 15 pages of replies)
Is it likely? I just gave you fairly conservative numbers showing it's quite easy. I only gave the example 3 Tavas procs. Do you realize how low that is if you have 10 people beating on you for 7 seconds? You don't, because you don't understand how evades work. Evasion grants an Evade frame which means I can evade more than 1 attack per evasion proc. That's what I was saying when I said Tavas stacks. If I dodge while Tavas is equipped and that Dodge evades 3 attacks, I'll get 9 ultimate every second for 3 seconds. (3 stacks of Tavas for 27 ult over 3 seconds). So if I have 10 people beating on me, and Evasion (like you said, 15%) procs ONLY ONCE (lol) I can still generate tremendous ultimate because if I evade multiple attacks during that evade frame, each evade will proc Tavas.
I don't have a video because I don't play this type of build, but judging from your bullheadedness I don't think any video would make any difference. You're just arguing because you feel like you have to and you're becoming increasingly irrational with each post. What's the point of continuing this discussion when you don't even know how dodge frames work and how that works with Tavas?Edited by Kilandros on October 9, 2017 11:27PMInvictus
Kilandros - Dragonknight / Grand Overlord
Deimos - Templar / Grand Warlord
Sias - Sorcerer / PrefectZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Short answer is DKs likely won't be seeing a ton of changes before we go live; this class is still quite powerful (as it should be being a tank), even after some of the adjustments we've made to other classes and abilities.
DK IS NOT JUST A TANK CLASS. #PLAYTHEWAYYOUWANT0 -
Xsorus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Guys, they are just making Syphoner affect block-reliant specs in addition to the rest.
Before this change med and light armor specs were already debuffed by ~5-10% to their resource returns on the general basis.
Heavy was largely unaffected.
The goal of the Syphoner is obviously to reduce pvp sustain while not affecting pve.
If we suddenly don't like this change we first need to propose an alternative way of nerfing pvp sustain, because i think we can agree that sustain in cp pvp is once again too high:)
Increase the cost of Spell Wall to 150-175 Ult. That would be the first step in the right direction.
No it wouldn’t; you’d pretty much guarantee no one would use it; defensive ults have to be cheaper then offensive ones otherwise no one will bother.https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXpX7JMwRXtczc5GTrIYRIw
ESO and GW2 PvP videos0 -
Izaki✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Takes-No-Prisoner wrote: »Good change in overall balance. Given ZoS was set on having the passive there anyway (and did for many months) it is much better that it counters at least everyone and not just regen builds.
10% is at 43 points btw
Yeah I was gonna say, to get it high enough you have to spend a lot.
What was the activation for it? On light/ heavy attacks and how many seconds? I plum forgot about how this star works on paper.
3 seconds on light/heavy. Not stackable, but apparently it gets overwritten by others so still pretty much useless outside of duels/small group fights.
On the contrary, it's biggest use it when you're outnumbered and someone is spamming bow light attacks on you from 40m away.
And if there's at least one person who is attacking you who has less Siphoner than that bow tard and the bow tard would have wasted 1 3rd of his CP. It gets overridden. So its not a big deal. However, for solo players, this is a great change, since they will always be getting full benefit from this CP star.
This is a great change for small scale PvP (both small group and solo). Going to be able to drain healers much faster for example.Edited by Izaki on October 10, 2017 12:34AM@ Izaki #PCEU
#FrenchKiss #GoneFor2YearsAndMyGuildDoesn'tRaidAnymore
#MoreDPSthanYou
#Stamblade1 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Ragnaroek93 wrote: »Ragnaroek93 wrote: »
Pretty much every magdk I run into these days (who still wreck over half of my health with a Leap + Skoria). But yeah, they won't permablock against 10 people, which is irrelevant in my scenario because I run around alone most of the time and you simply lack the tools to break block effectively on your own.
What gets nerfed by this change: Heavy armor, heavy attacks, elemental drain, Argonian, meele tank builds and builds without (or with low uptime) have finally a star which can compete with Befoul.
This is exactly why I like the change too. As I mentioned earlier, it is pretty hard to 1vX and small group when every enemy is practically impossible to kill. I just can't do anything to kill some those Mag DK or other builds that can get 100% block uptime. This will now help immensely for a solo or small scale player to actually drain the resources of those types of builds and be able to take them out.
If you're 1vXing and focusing the tanks, you don't know how to 1vX. Always go after the squishy ones, the healers. Just leave the permablockers. They can't hurt you anyway.
You don't need to be a full tank to be disgustingly tanky but I'm pretty sure that you know this.
I don't use any ressource gains beside of my stamregen which is fully affected by the current Siphoner. Now other ressource return methods are affected too. What's the problem with that? How is that unbalanced?
Its not unbalanced because it will affect everyone and not just regen builds. Its unbalanced because that passive even exists.0 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Guys, they are just making Syphoner affect block-reliant specs in addition to the rest.
Before this change med and light armor specs were already debuffed by ~5-10% to their resource returns on the general basis.
Heavy was largely unaffected.
The goal of the Syphoner is obviously to reduce pvp sustain while not affecting pve.
If we suddenly don't like this change we first need to propose an alternative way of nerfing pvp sustain, because i think we can agree that sustain in cp pvp is once again too high:)
Increase the cost of Spell Wall to 150-175 Ult. That would be the first step in the right direction.
No it wouldn’t; you’d pretty much guarantee no one would use it; defensive ults have to be cheaper then offensive ones otherwise no one will bother.
You mean like no stam DK was ever using corrosive armor? Oh wait.0 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Takes-No-Prisoner wrote: »Good change in overall balance. Given ZoS was set on having the passive there anyway (and did for many months) it is much better that it counters at least everyone and not just regen builds.
10% is at 43 points btw
Yeah I was gonna say, to get it high enough you have to spend a lot.
What was the activation for it? On light/ heavy attacks and how many seconds? I plum forgot about how this star works on paper.
3 seconds on light/heavy. Not stackable, but apparently it gets overwritten by others so still pretty much useless outside of duels/small group fights.
On the contrary, it's biggest use it when you're outnumbered and someone is spamming bow light attacks on you from 40m away.
And if there's at least one person who is attacking you who has less Siphoner than that bow tard and the bow tard would have wasted 1 3rd of his CP. It gets overridden. So its not a big deal. However, for solo players, this is a great change, since they will always be getting full benefit from this CP star.
This is a great change for small scale PvP (both small group and solo). Going to be able to drain healers much faster for example.
With all the bs going on these days even running them out of resources wont help you. There is always a resto, snb ult, trees, pirate skeleton, troll king, reactive and the list goes on and on and on.0
