Most Tanks Cannot tanking

Betsararie · October 2017

Most tanking cannot not tanking

theroyalestpythonnub18_ESO · October 2017

If you are getting overwhelmed by mobs run them past the tank so they can taunt. Inner fire is our only ranged taunt besides the frost staff, and it is ridiculously expensive to cast.

I'll do my best to help group members out in bad situations, but if it means running the boss all over the map, or the rest of the group getting flattened because I can't point the boss away from them it's just not worth it.

Chronicburn · October 2017

Although I want to be helpful, I don't play a tank...
Anyway, the obvious response to this title...

Most typers cannot typing? ;0)

just to be clear I am not balming the typers

AzraelKrieg · October 2017

Runefang wrote: »

HatchetHaro wrote: »

Actually, in the cases of regular trash pulls like that, the tank should only need to taunt a handful of the most dangerous threats. The rest, you can heal through easily. A good tank would just do that, maybe CC the mobs, and then chain in the stragglers if he's able, and maybe cast vigor and shields as well to protect your squishy arse. This is the case for every single dungeon.

Another technique some tanks use is "soft-taunting", that is, to be the first source of damage on every single enemy so the tank would be the first target. This can be achieved by using an aoe damaging skill, and is the closesr you can get to an aoe taunt. However, the purpose of this isn't to protect teammates; it is to quickly and efficiently stack a group of enemies for a quick aoe bomb. This is much more of an advanced mechanic for speedrunning dungeons, and only the best of the best know how to use this mechanic.

Source: tanked all vet dungeons on hardmode and no-deaths, and am friends with and witnesses to many experienced tanks in vet trials.

I laughed at this, the tank's main job aside from being the one to get hit by bosses/tough enemies is to gather all the mobs. If it's only being done by the best of the best there must be a lot of bad tanks.

A tank's job is to prioritise the biggest threat to the group, not gather all the mobs. Mobs will die to AoE from the DPS. If a tank had all the attention from everything in the dungeon, the healer would be more focused on keeping them alive that a DPS could get caught in something and die.

Dysprosium · October 2017

I suggest you try tanking. If you want to critique properly you should be intimately knowledgeable first.

PlagueSD · October 2017

From one of my other posts on tanking...ESO tanking is slightly different since we can't AoE taunt.

PlagueSD wrote: »

https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/2zcd1f/guide_some_advice_for_people_in_dungeons/ has some good information on all 3 roles.

For tanking in particular...
Make sure you have a taunt on your bar. There are 2 taunts in this game, both are single-target:

Puncture in one hand/shield skill line. Melee, uses stamina.

Inner Fire in undaunted skill line. Ranged, uses magicka but can be morphed to use stamina.

Especially in vet you must have one of these two skills

You only need to aggro the big guys, don't try to aggro every trash mob. Tanks in this game do not need to aggro everyone, dps needs to look after themselves a bit.

DK chains is not a taunt.

Do not taunt more than 3 times in 10 seconds or you lose aggro. Gone as of IC update, August 2015

A skill like defensive posture can be great for the passive that increases block mitigation and reduces block cost and similar skills/passives that help with mitigation are very helpful.

Don't just block and stand there. I've seen several tanks do this and it is very frustrating. A tank needs to help the group. Using low slash to reduce enemy weapon damage, for example (15% off of a boss' damage is huge), or an AoE ability like sap essence is a great help and can aggro more mobs to you without need for a taunt.

Block those heavies! gold lines from an enemy means block it, red lines means bash him to interrupt. Seriously. INTERRUPT. Give your healer a break and block the heavies and bash what can be interrupted.

If a boss has a frontal cone attack, tank it facing away from your group so they don't have to worry about it.

Make sure you have enough HP and resistances. Even at low CP ranks you should be having 30k-40k health for vet dungeons. This goes for dps too, over 15k health at low CP is necessary; glass cannon builds have no place in vet dungeons, save those builds for PvP.

Using an AoE ability like caltrops or sap essence can help you pull enemies when you start the fight. Aggro in this game is skewed towards whoever attacks that enemy first, so if you get a bunch of enemies you won't have to look around for as many to taunt.

Iselin · October 2017

1) There are a lot, and I mean a LOT of DPS players in this game who queue for dungeons as tanks to game the queue and get a dungeon faster. Once upon a time we used to routinely kick those queue jumpers from groups but it's so widespread now that all you can really do is grin and bear it and put up with the 2HD werewolf with no taunt since his replacement if you kick him will likely be yet another fake tank.

2. Then there are the ones who are half-assed tanks. They may actually use a shield and have more than 16K health but they have no clue about positioning: they will constantly kite and roll dodge bosses away from the ultimate and AOE kill zones the DPS have laid down as well as not bothering to turn the boss away from the group. They also have no idea that in addition to aggro there are abilities that tanks should use to AOE root trash packs in place or at the very least use something like caltrops to slow them down.

As long as you queue for random dungeons you will inevitably run into both of those types more often than you will get a real tank who takes his role seriously and is good at it.Those are easy to spot: they usually have 1HD + shield on both bars and 35K+ health. Appreciate it when you get a good one because it's a rare occurrence especially in normal dungeon PUGs.

Actually PUGs in general are just pot luck anyway: you also get crappy healers and crappy DPSers. If you're going to run randoms that way, be prepared for really bad group mates and be happy when they're not. If you want to run dungeons with reliable good players, make some friends and play with them. It's the only safe way to avoid bad groups.

Zypheran · October 2017

Invincible wrote: »

For random normal dungeons I usually just ignore the tank and solo everything. For vets or hm pledges I usually auto kick anyone who isn't cp660.

The vast majority of people who que tank and healer cannot hold aggro or cannot heal.

One can only assume you are trolling!

Zer0oo · October 2017

Most dd can't dps and most healers can't heal either. Blame the missing tutorial or the extrem easiness of the other content.

Kneighbors · October 2017

Didn't read all he thread, but from what I understand OP complains that tank can't keep agro of trash mobs long enough for OP as a DD to banish the hell out of them. Well I think the biggest problem is the dps of OP as a DD. The tanks he is talking about are the same level of his DD skills.

Any decent tank who goes tanking vet trials can gather a group of experienced players within several minutes. You will rarely see this guy in PUGs.

idk · October 2017

Dysprosium wrote: »

I suggest you try tanking. If you want to critique properly you should be intimately knowledgeable first.

I have tanked for quite a bit. A number of clears of our lovely trials. Have cleared all HM dungeons including the newest DLC dungeons.

The only time I need to taunt mobs in a 4 man dungeon is if DPS is low. So the question to OP is why are the mobs dying so slowly? Oh, yes, OP waits a minute to start doing DPS.

Sleep · October 2017

i can't hold agro when someone else is constantly using frost staff heavy attack

neal_brasier · October 2017

Invincible wrote: »

For random normal dungeons I usually just ignore the tank and solo everything. For vets or hm pledges I usually auto kick anyone who isn't cp660.

The vast majority of people who que tank and healer cannot hold aggro or cannot heal.

Anyone does that on my runs it's an auto vote kick

Mureel · October 2017

Narvuntien wrote: »

There are no AoE taunts I have to go around and taunt each individual member of a mob.
As a magicka tank I just don't have the stamina to spare.

You as the DPS have to quickly kill the adds because I have the main boss to focus on.
Trash mobs just don't do enough damage to threaten you if you have a sensible amount of hp and 1 defensive skill.

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

TheValar85 wrote: »

i can only quote on my self on that.

I am not that kind of damage dealer.

i even gave a tank a half min or more before i put my aoe down. and leater on i am getting insulted to why not damaging and when i expalin to him i simply gave him a time ia got laughed out...

Why? There's no need to taunt every single banekin, tanking big mobs (or any mobs that can oneshot dds or healer) is enough.

You really need to just go in hot with lots of AOE clean up the mobs/adds. The tank shouldn't be coping with adds/mobs other than mini boss type ones. Trash should be over and done pretty fast and is just not the tank's problem.

Skullstachio · October 2017

As far as tanking goes, I was a good dragon knight tank, because I used a few skills, I always had pierce armor, volatile armor to take less damage from crucial enemies while dealing small amount of DoT to help the others mop up trash mobs faster, the works, but what made me a good tank is the fact that I use ebon armoury to buff the teams health.

Currently I use the Tara's tank setup to generate ultimate like crazy, but when clockwork city hits console, I'll be changing out tava's blessing for fortified brass. I also use bloodspawn.

Flameheart · October 2017

VaranisArano wrote: »

Basic tanking is having a taunt, holding boss aggro, and not dying.

Good tanking is having a taunt, holding boss aggro, not dying, holding the boss as still as possible with boss mechanics, debuffing the boss, buffing the group, and applying crowd control on mobs.

Taunting: there are three taunts in the game. Pierce Armor from One hand and shield applies major fracture and breach, Inner fire at ranged, Ice Staff heavy attack. All are single target.

Please keep in mind that plenty of boss mechanics ignore taunt, for example, in order to attack the farthest player from the boss.

Pulling mobs together: There are two really good ways to do that. DK chains and Swarm Mother Monster set. Both sets require the tank to do a lot of chaining or range taunt+block as opposed to anything else in the fight. Neither are necessary for a good tank since there are lots of crowd control options.

That's it in a nutshell.

When playing a tank I try to taunt as much adds as possible just in low dps groups. In a good group initial aggro, taunting the big guys and some ranged mobs and a crowd control ability here and there like Eruption, Talons, Swarm Mother, chains, portals etc. do the rest. If the AoE dps is good the trash pack will die within seconds anyways. Much more important as taunting everything is to pile trash up so that at best each mob is hit by AoE damage skills of the DDs. Your instruments for that are

-initial aggro and moving the melee guys to the ranged mobs on pull
-chains, portals, Swarm Mother for remaining casters and archers
-talons, eruption or other rooting or movement speed decreasing skills, so that the mobs will stay close to the tank
-the help of the other players (DDs and healer) to do that. So it's not the best idea to storm into mob groups in front of the tank or to stand on 28m range as a DD or even as a healer while fighting trash...Ideally tank, DDs and healer stand close together, healer maybe a few steps behind the DDs but still within Healing Springs range. If an add or two may hit you just block/shield and go on, but please don't run away like a headless chicken. A DD can spam AoE skills while in block, a healer can heal and give support while in block.

sdtlc · October 2017

Just for fun, i made an warden magica tank and started doing randoms for leveling as soon as level 15. Till reaching 50 i used sword and board like i was used and then swapped for froststaff.

Tbh main reason was looking for the reaction of the randoms

It's a good laugh when they realise at the final boss, that i was using a froststaff the whole time.

With an usable group you simply jump in the trash, put crowdcontrol down and start collecting the bigger ones, which aren't dead by then.

bhagwad · October 2017

The role of a tank is so important, I decided to main it myself. If you want a job done right, you have to unfortunately do it yourself.

CaffeinatedMayhem · October 2017

All the tanks here saying that you can't hold mobs... if you're a DK why aren't you using talons? Holds mobs pretty well. Now if we can teach DPS to use Impale that would be helpful.

Edit: No, talons are not for trials, but work really well on dungeon mobs.

DMuehlhausen · October 2017

A lot of people also hit tank to get a queue faster.

That being said this game isn't designed like other MMOs. Tanks aren't suppose to hold aggro on all the mobs in the group pulls. You should be killing stuff in the right order. Can a tank grab a few of them yes, but it's impossible to taunt and hold all mobs in a group sometimes.

A lot of bosses also can't be taunted. I would say though too that DPS needs to watch themselves. You get a lot of DDs that just goes balls out on the dps and pull aggro. So while the tank is doing everything they can the DD are not doing their job properly.

VaranisArano · October 2017

thatlaurachick wrote: »

All the tanks here saying that you can't hold mobs... if you're a DK why aren't you using talons? Holds mobs pretty well. Now if we can teach DPS to use Impale that would be helpful.

Edit: No, talons are not for trials, but work really well on dungeon mobs.

We aren't saying we can't crowd control mobs or hold them in place. We've got talons for holding in place (or encase for a sorc tank). We've got any number of skills that slow the movement of mobs so they bunch up nicely. Even caltrops will work in a pinch for hitting a large mob and holding them together, especially in a choke point. The only time I have really used talons to its best effect was in Dragonstar Arena where ranged adds will immediately back up after being pulled close with chains. Chains+talons meant they couldn't run away.

We ARE saying we can't hold aggro on a group of enemies because there is no AOE taunt without single targeting every single enemy. If I have to taunt every enemy in a trash mob, I'm going to be spamming taunt the entire time instead of crowd controlling, buffing, or debuffing. I find it far more effective to taunt a few of the more dangerous enemies in the mob while burning the rest down with AOE.

pelle412 · October 2017

I'm a tank and by no standard an expert one. If DPS runs ahead and aggros trash mobs there is not much I can do except find the problem mobs and taunt them. I do have limited stamina and magicka to do this. If you let the tank run into the trash first I can CC them and maybe do an eruption or deep breath to get initial aggro. On boss fights with trash the boss is priority to aggro but as I have resources I'll aggro trash too. If multiple bosses I'll focus on the melee guy and aggro others as I have resources.

If I don't know the dungeon well I also make that clear. My first venture into Selenes web was vet hard mode and it took 2 wipes for me to get it right but we learn. Vet CoH1 I can tank while sleeping after so many runs for Ebon jewelry.

Jeremy · October 2017

pelle412 wrote: »

I'm a tank and by no standard an expert one. If DPS runs ahead and aggros trash mobs there is not much I can do except find the problem mobs and taunt them. I do have limited stamina and magicka to do this. If you let the tank run into the trash first I can CC them and maybe do an eruption or deep breath to get initial aggro. On boss fights with trash the boss is priority to aggro but as I have resources I'll aggro trash too. If multiple bosses I'll focus on the melee guy and aggro others as I have resources.

If I don't know the dungeon well I also make that clear. My first venture into Selenes web was vet hard mode and it took 2 wipes for me to get it right but we learn. Vet CoH1 I can tank while sleeping after so many runs for Ebon jewelry.

When I play tank I just don't let aggressive DPS stress me. If they want to rush up ahead and aggro a pack of mobs they can have at it.

Sometimes they can handle themselves - sometimes they go splat. Either way - I don't allow it to affect me.

CaffeinatedMayhem · October 2017

Jeremy wrote: »

When I play tank I just don't let aggressive DPS stress me. If they want to rush up ahead and aggro a pack of mobs they can have at it.

Sometimes they can handle themselves - sometimes they go splat. Either way - I don't allow it to affect me.

Rule #1: You aggro it, you tank it. I will sit back and watch everyone die if they run ahead. If they really don't need a tank, I drop.

Jade1986 · October 2017

Invincible wrote: »

For random normal dungeons I usually just ignore the tank and solo everything. For vets or hm pledges I usually auto kick anyone who isn't cp660.

The vast majority of people who que tank and healer cannot hold aggro or cannot heal.

^^ This guy is exactly what is wrong with the grouping in this game. People not queing for the right role is one thing, being an antisocial elitist is another huge problem.

Jeremy · October 2017

thatlaurachick wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

When I play tank I just don't let aggressive DPS stress me. If they want to rush up ahead and aggro a pack of mobs they can have at it.

Sometimes they can handle themselves - sometimes they go splat. Either way - I don't allow it to affect me.

Rule #1: You aggro it, you tank it. I will sit back and watch everyone die if they run ahead. If they really don't need a tank, I drop.

I'll still run up and do my part and try to soak up as much damage as possible (which is what I see the role of a tank to be on large trash pulls. I'm not a Dragon Knight and don't have talons).

But I'm not going stress it and try to frantically save an overly aggressively player. Because I cannot instantly pull 10 mobs off a single player who charged headstrong into a large group of enemies... nor am I going to feel responsible for it if he or she dies because of it.

CaffeinatedMayhem · October 2017

laced wrote: »

Invincible wrote: »

For random normal dungeons I usually just ignore the tank and solo everything. For vets or hm pledges I usually auto kick anyone who isn't cp660.

The vast majority of people who que tank and healer cannot hold aggro or cannot heal.

^^ This guy is exactly what is wrong with the grouping in this game. People not queing for the right role is one thing, being an antisocial elitist is another huge problem.

Also, these "solo" players - Why are you queueing for a group if you're going to run off an ignore everyone? Just do it solo and stop annoying people.

CaffeinatedMayhem · October 2017

Jeremy wrote: »

thatlaurachick wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

When I play tank I just don't let aggressive DPS stress me. If they want to rush up ahead and aggro a pack of mobs they can have at it.

Sometimes they can handle themselves - sometimes they go splat. Either way - I don't allow it to affect me.

Rule #1: You aggro it, you tank it. I will sit back and watch everyone die if they run ahead. If they really don't need a tank, I drop.

I'll still run up and do my part and try to soak up as much damage as possible (which is what I see the role of a tank to be on large trash pulls. I'm not a Dragon Knight and don't have talons).

But I'm not going stress it and try to frantically save an overly aggressively player. Because I cannot instantly pull 10 mobs off a single player who charged headstrong into a large group of enemies... nor am I going to feel responsible for it if he or she dies because of it.

Yeah, no, so tired of the DPS sprinting ahead and I only catch up at the last boss, don't get any XP or loot that way. End game tank builds don't have stam regen so no, I'm not going to waste all of my stam sprinting when people obviously don't care if the tank is there or not.

If you don't need a tank, don't queue for one.

aeowulf · October 2017

Tanking in ESO should be looked at overall. There are two classes (DK and Warden) that are excellent at it, and the remaining classes lack in at least one area to some degree, be it crowd control, resource management or even group utility. Once the gap is narrowed, there may be more people playing tanks (rather than switching roles to DPS) so finder gets populated with actual tanks, not people just wanting to skip the queue. TBH i don't blame them, waiting 45 mins as a DPS is not fun...

Jeremy · October 2017

aeowulf wrote: »

Tanking in ESO should be looked at overall. There are two classes (DK and Warden) that are excellent at it, and the remaining classes lack in at least one area to some degree, be it crowd control, resource management or even group utility. Once the gap is narrowed, there may be more people playing tanks (rather than switching roles to DPS) so finder gets populated with actual tanks, not people just wanting to skip the queue. TBH i don't blame them, waiting 45 mins as a DPS is not fun...

I enjoy tanking on this game. Usually.

Certain dungeons are more enjoyable to tank than others. But I actually like that they lack a group taunt because it helps add a bit more strategy to the combat.

The real problem as I see it is this game lacks a dedicated support role devoted to certain tasks like crowd control and resource management (think Loremaster from LOTRO - at least in its inception). That's what is needed here in this game.

And I'm not sympathetic to DPS who pretend to be tanks for faster queue times. It's a selfish and _____ move