Most Tanks Cannot tanking

TheValar85 · October 2017

To clear this up i am not balming everything on the tanks. And definetly there are some issues with other roles as well as i said i am not a *** dps nor a *** healer as well. i know how to play with my toons. except most of the pugs in game thats why i have adressed the tanks issues first, with said i also mentioned in my very first post there are exceptions.
So i am sorry if you guys took it so personaly i am not inteded to do that, all i wanted just share my negative thoughs what i have experiancing in game. And i am sorry if i hurted anyones fealing. i just cant stand the stupidity in group content wide. I am not saying the damage dealers are the pillars of good damage dealing cos i saw many interesting things as well... or should i say lame things.

Wifeaggro13 · October 2017

TheValar85 wrote: »

Before i got in to my point first there are some expetations in the circle of tanks who can actualy tanking. So for those base dont take it personaly because you are not one of them who can't tanking.

Now then, i have been all across Tamriel including every dungeon, trials, and so on except the 2 new ones.
But it came to atention that most of the player base who chose tanking role in veteran dungeons or even normal, they simply cant hold agro.
i dont know how long hase been this is an issue in the game, but i cant simply hold my thoughts back.

i am mostly a Damage Dealer, but i used to healing too. And no matter what role i am playing with all i see the tank charges in to the mobs group and all see they are atacing me! ME! is there a bug around the agro holding or what? This is not my first mmorpg game what i am playing with and i know dps and healers can have agro thats for sure, but BUUT agro down every piece of mobs from the tanks is just insane!

Not to mention they can't even taunt them back. How much agro time i should give to the tanks? half hp from the bosses or the mobs should be enough when i can safely healing and damage dealing or what?

This must be rethinking and re developing. tanks should pull everything together and hold them of of the ranged damage dealers and from the healers. yet the oposite happens all the god damn time.

In other cenario there is even a base where there is Zero communication with the other group members, it's like they simply cannot speak english or can't even type. (i am sorry about that i know i am not good at English grammar and spelling i am sorry but my language is not based on Latin but at least i try my best to make my self understandable) and when the whole group wipes down we are called noobs. And i see this constantly and i am ready think even if the tank is over 660 cp that level is dosent matters anymore, because he simply cant tanking. And thiese kind of players runins every god damn istances ingame.

I am not a tank but when i finaly meet a proper one who know what to do i personaly prase the gods they have been sent to us.And i even aknowledge them how good they were, but sadly those numbers are too low.

I dont know what's going on here but this is cannot stand this anymore and i have to speak up for the sake of the game. Send a every player a tanking tutorial guide in e-mail becasue those who haven't got a clue who to do it in the good way they are not going to look up any guide on the internet thats for sure, and the good tanks are just rare in these days.

Thank you for your time and effort to read my post.

PS: for the tanks who can play with their roles: i love you all guys keep up the good playing style and may the nine bells you all!

its the aggro system not really the tanks. its a crappy system. its very basic and rudimentary. 6-second hard taunt its either on or off its easy to read . holding multiple mobs is a moot point because there is not aoe though you can just spit and poke them to keep more than one interested. some bosses have taunt immunity. basically tanks are more utility in end game with war horn and any other bullcrap watered down skill that has cc or survivability. by far this game is the easiest to tank in compared to other games. turthfully this game is built around meta DPS builds , twitch reflex and individual performance rather then a team based system. tanking in eso is not well thought out nor designed very well. its pretty damn boring

Trinity_Is_My_Name · October 2017

Well, I have two Tanks and Tank quite a bit so here we go: First there is no mob aggro or AOE aggro so all we have are single taunts. You have to taunt one at a time and in a big mob that is fairly impossible. Main Tank job is to taunt the boss or bosses, not the entire mob.

You should be able to handle mobs with your build and skill set. If not, sorry but you need to improve your build and skill set.

TheValar85 · October 2017

Trinity_Is_My_Name wrote: »

Well, I have two Tanks and Tank quite a bit so here we go: First there is no mob aggro or AOE aggro so all we have are single taunts. You have to taunt one at a time and in a big mob that is fairly impossible. Main Tank job is to taunt the boss or bosses, not the entire mob.

You should be able to handle mobs with your build and skill set. If not, sorry but you need to improve your build and skill set.

yeah right so basicly all you said it is my fault that i cant taunt a whole gorup of instance mobs with my skill set...or handeling them all in one right... while there are other damage dealers as well in the group and doing nothing instead of standing in one place and wait for the miracle and tanks dosent have aoe taunts so they cant hold them of and i said i am not talinkg about 5 or 6 mobs i said a half instance mobs. so yeah i would like to know how in hell is that supose to be my fault? or my skil sets fault hm?

SwimsWithMemes · October 2017

@TheValar85 , there is no need to wait more than one second before you lay down your AoE abilities, you don't need to wait 30 seconds on any fight in the game. Did my last comment make sense to you? I'd be happy to show you in a dungeon how tanking trash works

What dungeon were you fighting half the trash in the instance? Genuinely curious. Every character should bring at least 1 self sustaining tool to PUGs, people might play different to you.

TheValar85 · October 2017

strebor2095 wrote: »

@TheValar85 , there is no need to wait more than one second before you lay down your AoE abilities, you don't need to wait 30 seconds on any fight in the game. Did my last comment make sense to you? I'd be happy to show you in a dungeon how tanking trash works

no thank you i have seen enough thats why i have opend this topic.

idk · October 2017

I certainly did not take it personally. It just seemed you think the tank should have every single mob taunted and the game is not designed for that.

It is purposefully designed for that not to be the case and the only time I have need to taunt every single mob is if the DPS is exceptionally low. Even with one solid dps in the group the mobs die pretty fast. So fast with just one decent DPS that it is not worth taunting every single mob.

paulsimonps · October 2017

I will tell you this, in almost every non DLC dungeon, I will barely taunt any trash mobs at all. I will run in, chain in a ranged mob and then do a choking talon, then keep chaining and using talons until all mobs are dead. Only in cases of strong elite mobs do I actually taunt, that or two-hander mobs cause DPS usually don't know what block casting is.

Jeremy · October 2017

TheValar85 wrote: »

neal_brasier wrote: »

Another problem I have as a tank is when the dps run into an area before I've got everything taunted and under control and take agro also attacking the bosses before I can grab them. If that happens it's hard to get an area back under control and sometimes I don't even bother.

well trust me i am not that kind of guy.

i have no doupt in your tankink skills who have posted al ready here. all i am saying i know what is your role here, i just dont get it why the tanks cant have at least one aoe tount in that case, as a dps i can hold the mobs mostly quiet well but as a healer i cant deal with them all. And it is not my fault if the rest of the group dps are not doing what should be done. And it is hard to keep alive the tank and also deal with the mobs because many cenarios the other damage dealers are not doing their works also as you previously said, wich is nteresting because when i switch back as a dmage dealer to an other dungeon run i can hodl them of of me. But as healer and when the rest of the damag dealers are just pulling every *** in the dungeoens is just a pure chaos.

Tanking in this game isn't like on other MMORPGs. You just can't run up to a large group - hit an area taunt - and then hold them all there. So you may want to abandon that mind set when you play this game because there is no area taunt.

Large pulls can be be somewhat chaotic - especially at the start.

My advice: you may want to work on improving your defense some on your healer (health, damage shields, resistance... etc.). This isn't a game where only the tank ever takes damage.

Tan9oSuccka · October 2017

When I tank, I poke the first couple and talon/chain trash together.

It's hard to single target taunt the whole room but it shouldn't matter. Trash should be dead with one or two talon casts.

Mojmir · October 2017

Swarm mother makes a tanks life easier with aoe and trash fights, but no way im burning resources to taunt all of them.

Loves_guars · October 2017

And this is my main problem with being a tank in this game. Even if I use, Ebon set, talons, caltrops, chains, taunts and shields, sometimes my teammates die to mobs. When it happens, it makes me want to smash hard everything and uninstall because I'm sure most of them think it's my fault, but I genuinely don't think there's much else I can do about the mobs.
Also there a lot of bosses mechanics that don't respond to aggro. Again I'm sure sometimes they are blaming me when the get hit by them.

TBH I don't hate it, it makes sense, being a dps or a healer is more entertaining. But I wish everyone knew what is like to taunt in this game. Everyone should roll a tank before blaming us.

Dantaria · October 2017

TheValar85 wrote: »

all i am saying i know what is your role here, i just dont get it why the tanks cant have at least one aoe tount in that case

Because there is no AOE taunt in ESO.

THERE IS NO AOE TAUNT IN ESO.

Holding all trash is not the responsibility of the tank. The responsibility of the tank is to hold the strongest mobs and to maximally stack everything so DDs could burn stuff easily with DoTs.

If you, as a healer, can't handle some trash mobs, something is wrong with your build. This or you make the usual newbie mistake - if some mobs are on you and you start backing away from your group, your death is on you. Like, sorry, as a DD I can't burn the mobs which are stacked nicely around the tank and the mobs some n00b dragged far away at the same time. And as a tank I can't shield you if you are far away, so ooops.

Mobs are on you? Go to group. If you don't, you have noone to blame but yourself.

And I will stress it again.

THERE IS NO AOE TAUNT IN ESO. Holding all trash is not the responsibility of the tank.

ascottk · October 2017

https://www.ranker.com/list/funny-tank-video-game-memes/melissa-brinks

Jeremy · October 2017

cecibergesnrb18_ESO wrote: »

And this is my main problem with being a tank in this game. Even if I use, Ebon set, talons, caltrops, chains, taunts and shields, sometimes my teammates die to mobs. When it happens, it makes me want to smash hard everything and uninstall because I'm sure most of them think it's my fault, but I genuinely don't think there's much else I can do about the mobs.
Also there a lot of bosses mechanics that don't respond to aggro. Again I'm sure sometimes they are blaming me when the get hit by them.

TBH I don't hate it, it makes sense, being a dps or a healer is more entertaining. But I wish everyone knew what is like to taunt in this game. Everyone should roll a tank before blaming us.

That's really good advice.

People should always try it out for themselves first before judging others.

WatchYourSixx · October 2017

*shrugs* I'm a tank and I have no problem taunting everything in a dungeon to protect my teammates. People just assume it's not the tanks job to taunt everything, but in my experience I almost always have successful runs. If no one is hitting your team and only hitting you, how does that NOT benefit your team?

L2T

tommalmm · October 2017

Good luck taunting a group of 20 mobs. A hint: it's impossible, before you get trough first 15, the first one will be already untaunted... Or the fight will be over anyway.

Keeping everything in a nice blob and rooting it, to not let it disperse is another thing.

Inhuman003 · October 2017

tommalmm wrote: »

Good luck taunting a group of 20 mobs. A hint: it's impossible, before you get trough first 15, the first one will be already untaunted... Or the fight will be over anyway.

Keeping everything in a nice blob and rooting it, to not let it disperse is another thing.

it depends on how much magicka your tank have to root mobs, that you see the Healer throw shards at the tank to keep stamina up.

zaria · October 2017

Narvuntien wrote: »

There are no AoE taunts I have to go around and taunt each individual member of a mob.
As a magicka tank I just don't have the stamina to spare.

You as the DPS have to quickly kill the adds because I have the main boss to focus on.
Trash mobs just don't do enough damage to threaten you if you have a sensible amount of hp and 1 defensive skill.

As an healer my main issue is not bad tanks, yes fake tanks without taunt is an issue, however fake DD is more of an problem,
No I'm not asking for 20k dps, something like 10 would be nice, 7 is pretty close to 10

You don't want to do 50% of group dps as an warden healer with wall of lighting and spamming cliffracer doing 6K.
Main issue with my warden healer is not lack of BoL its lack of dps skills, templar is well covered with swipe and dark flare letting you do decent dps if not much need for healing.

Jade1986 · October 2017

I was in v Darkshade Caverns II the other day and had a tank running around with 2 handed, a bow player hitting 3 k dps, and a healer that only used rushed ceremony. I would love to say this is a isolated case, but...... I mean, I play bow/bow too, and even with my awful gear atm I still hit 15 k dps.....

Tasear · October 2017

I got you today had a tank say this

" I can't taunt because dps is to low"

* Vote to kick

For reals it's been so bad lately. Finding a tank that knows how to control aggro of adds, sustain, endure seems basic enough. Now the ones who can debuff, heal and support in other ways make want to get married.

P.S blood root and vDSA along with vCOS are good training grounds for tanks

idk · October 2017

I think by now OP has gotten the idea.

Also, considering I have had a v15 tank with 21k health that had not even seen the dungeon on normal tank a vet trial with nary an issue. I think I was healing it. Considering an inexperienced tank not familiar with fights with average DPS at best handled the situation, I think it is more about experience and understanding of ones own role that pay the biggest part.

Heck, I only kick those who go AFK but I would probably make an exception for a dps that just stood there for a minute before joining the group in combat.

ereboz · October 2017

I agree, but disagree. I find tanking the most difficult role in this game considering what we have to work with, but I applaud any tank for trying. I run with a lot more poor dps than I do poor tanks. Tanks can only do the best with the skills they're given, and even then you gotta be a great tank to pull it off.

inthecoconut · October 2017

I'm a new player and I only have a single-target taunt. Is there an AoE taunt? I generally just taunt the melee stuff and try to keep things grouped for AoE but I generally don't go rushing out of my way to taunt some rogue thing that is poking my ranged DPS because I know that I'll end up pulling the mob out of the AoE to go get that one enemy. I just keep my eye on the healthbars and don't feel concerned unless they actually take damage, then yes, I go taunt it. Otherwise I feel I am more useful to my team by helping deal damage and applying buffs.

Invincible · October 2017

For random normal dungeons I usually just ignore the tank and solo everything. For vets or hm pledges I usually auto kick anyone who isn't cp660.

The vast majority of people who que tank and healer cannot hold aggro or cannot heal.

idk · October 2017

Invincible wrote: »

For random normal dungeons I usually just ignore the tank and solo everything. For vets or hm pledges I usually auto kick anyone who isn't cp660.

The vast majority of people who que tank and healer cannot hold aggro or cannot heal.

LOL, very misguided. Only someone who needs a carry would have those standards. Really sad someone needs a full CP660 group to carry them through dungeons.

What is funny is top players in the game will queue for random for the heck of it and really are not concerned about the players level.

Curragraigue · October 2017

You haven't described what you are doing and why you have half of the mobs on you. I have however done a lot of PUG runs and can guess from you saying keep mobs off ranged DDs that you are one of those DPS that sit about 20 feet back from the tank and pew pew with a staff or bow and then run away when mobs come towards you pulling the mobs even further away.

Here is a tip for all of the DPS that do that. You are the problem so stop blaming the tank or heals. What you need to do is get next to your tank and healer because:

1) the healer can then use AoE heals on everyone rather than having to send you special snowflake single target heals;
2) the tank can stack mobs with cc and not have to go chasing mobs you are pulling away by being so far away;
3) DPS can stack ground AoEs for max damage to wipe the mobs quickly and efficiently.

Enough with the I want to pew pew from range so everyone else sucks if they don't accommodate me. The game mechanics are stack for maximum effect and stay out of the red, simple as that.

VaranisArano · October 2017

Invincible wrote: »

For random normal dungeons I usually just ignore the tank and solo everything. For vets or hm pledges I usually auto kick anyone who isn't cp660.

The vast majority of people who que tank and healer cannot hold aggro or cannot heal.

If you can solo normal dungeons, you can handle having non max CP players in your party for vet dungeons. On the other hand, if you need your group to be up to your standards, kindly get together your own group and manually queue, instead of subjecting random players to your behavior. You don't need max CP to complete Veteran Dungeons. If YOU need max CP in your party, don't make that a problem for other players by kicking them.

Oddly enough, I'm not surprised that you think the majority of players can't tank or heal when you ignore those players and start soloing everything. I tank random normals for fun and if you leave me in your dust, I'm going to let you handle whatever you pull until I get there (and I'm secretly hoping you die, so that I can actually, you know, tank. Petty? Sure. But hey, you're ignoring me.).

Then again, I suspect that you and I have fundamentally different views of how to run random group dungeons. I think that random group dungeons are meant to be run with a group. I'm comfortable in a support role and built to support the group, no matter their level or capabilities. For me, I find satisfaction in the challenge of playing with different groups and even enjoy helping groups of low leveled players complete Fungal Grotto II or White Gold Tower.

Runefang · October 2017

HatchetHaro wrote: »

Actually, in the cases of regular trash pulls like that, the tank should only need to taunt a handful of the most dangerous threats. The rest, you can heal through easily. A good tank would just do that, maybe CC the mobs, and then chain in the stragglers if he's able, and maybe cast vigor and shields as well to protect your squishy arse. This is the case for every single dungeon.

Another technique some tanks use is "soft-taunting", that is, to be the first source of damage on every single enemy so the tank would be the first target. This can be achieved by using an aoe damaging skill, and is the closesr you can get to an aoe taunt. However, the purpose of this isn't to protect teammates; it is to quickly and efficiently stack a group of enemies for a quick aoe bomb. This is much more of an advanced mechanic for speedrunning dungeons, and only the best of the best know how to use this mechanic.

Source: tanked all vet dungeons on hardmode and no-deaths, and am friends with and witnesses to many experienced tanks in vet trials.

I laughed at this, the tank's main job aside from being the one to get hit by bosses/tough enemies is to gather all the mobs. If it's only being done by the best of the best there must be a lot of bad tanks.

newtinmpls · October 2017

TheValar85 wrote: »

i am mostly a Damage Dealer,

This would be the problem.

I was a LOT less sympathetic to how nasty it is when some bosses (or mobs) throw off aggro - before I started trying to tank.

Even if you aren't wanting to play every role, get together with friends and try it. What you see, how you look at the dungeon, where your attention is - totally different for DD, for tank and for healer. As it should be.

This is why I am so grateful to have friends to skype with. We can yell out "OMG he's after the healer" or whatever needs to be said.