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Potions Need Nerfs

GrumpyDuckling
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They're too much of a crutch in PVP. They allow for rubber-band healing and create endless 1v1 battles because resource return is too strong with potions.

Edit: After reading many of the posts in this thread, I thought it helpful to add the following into this first post to help clarify and give further justification for my reasoning:

I think a potion nerf should be strongly considered, and there's past precedent that ZOS wants to reduce rubber-band healing and strong sustain (Templar major mending nerf and Morrowind sustain nerfs).

My request for potion nerfs in PVP simply takes ZOS' past stances on rubber-band healing and resource management further. During the Templar major mending nerf, ZOS took an anti-rubber-band healing stance, and used it as justification for the nerf. If ZOS really wants to cut down on rubber-band healing, then I think potion nerfs are the next logical step, as some potions offer boosts that strengthen healing enough to make rubber-banding possible on non-healing focused builds. I think builds are a bit too strong to begin with, especially when we can hit extremely hard and heal extremely well at the same time, WITHOUT potions. Adding potions to the mix makes the build a bit absurd because we're not sacrificing damage for healing.

Morrowind sustain nerfs were largely about forcing players to make a choice between damage and sustain. The major recovery buffs that last for the majority of a potion cooldown period push that choice more towards damage without experiencing a sustain drought, or on the flip side, even further into sustain that creates endless battles, which is why I see potions as a crutch.

It's quite apparent that the most vocal people in this thread are against the idea of a potion nerf, but I haven't read anything yet that changes my mind about potions being the next logical nerf to get closer to achieving ZOS' desire to reduce rubber-band healing and sustain.
Edited by GrumpyDuckling on October 17, 2017 2:44AM
  • Alpheu5
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    I'm not addicted. I can stop whenever I want, but I choose not to.

    /swig
    Dalek-Rok - Argonian Sorcerer || Dalek-Shād - Argonian Nightblade || Dalek-Shul - Argonian Templar || Dalek-Xal - Argonian Dragonknight || Mounts-the-Snout - Argonian Warden || Dalek-Xul - Argonian Necromancer || Two-Spires - Argonian Arcanist || Dalek-Nesh - Argonian Sorcerer || Dalek-Kör - Argonian Dragonknight
    Don't incorporate bugs into your builds, and you won't have [an] issue.
  • Zvorgin
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    I thought the consensus was there were too many nerfs and now you want to nerf something everyone benefits from?
    Edited by Zvorgin on October 7, 2017 5:46PM
  • deepseamk20b14_ESO
    deepseamk20b14_ESO
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    No.
    Hey everyone! Look! It's a signature!
  • Waffennacht
    Waffennacht
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    I love this thread, it's dead on.

    It's the logic every single one of these nerf threads use.

    "It's OP because I said so! What math? What comparisons? What total tool kit outlook? I died and it needs to be nerfed and fyi buff what I'm using"
    Gamer tag: DasPanzerKat NA Xbox One
    1300+ CP
    Battleground PvP'er

    Waffennacht' Builds
  • GrumpyDuckling
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    Zvorgin wrote: »
    I thought the consensus was there were too many nerfs and now you want to nerf something everyone benefits from?

    Apparently I missed the meeting about there being too many nerfs, because I'm definitely not in the consensus (when we're talking PVP).

    I'd like to see potion effectiveness be reduced through Battle Spirit to reduce rubber-band healing and resource management.
  • Juhasow
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    Wait what ? So now even potions are game breaking ? What will be next food buffs or mundus stones ?...
    Edited by Juhasow on October 7, 2017 6:21PM
  • GrumpyDuckling
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    I love this thread, it's dead on.

    It's the logic every single one of these nerf threads use.

    "It's OP because I said so! What math? What comparisons? What total tool kit outlook? I died and it needs to be nerfed and fyi buff what I'm using"

    What are you talking about? Did you even read the first post? Rubber-band healing and endless battles.

    Your post doesn't even make sense. I didn't die to anything, nor did I ask for buffs.
  • Waffennacht
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    I love this thread, it's dead on.

    It's the logic every single one of these nerf threads use.

    "It's OP because I said so! What math? What comparisons? What total tool kit outlook? I died and it needs to be nerfed and fyi buff what I'm using"

    What are you talking about? Did you even read the first post? Rubber-band healing and endless battles.

    Your post doesn't even make sense. I didn't die to anything, nor did I ask for buffs.

    I'm not talking about you lmao :lol:

    Now are you really asking to nerf potions? Really?
    Gamer tag: DasPanzerKat NA Xbox One
    1300+ CP
    Battleground PvP'er

    Waffennacht' Builds
  • GrumpyDuckling
    GrumpyDuckling
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    I love this thread, it's dead on.

    It's the logic every single one of these nerf threads use.

    "It's OP because I said so! What math? What comparisons? What total tool kit outlook? I died and it needs to be nerfed and fyi buff what I'm using"

    What are you talking about? Did you even read the first post? Rubber-band healing and endless battles.

    Your post doesn't even make sense. I didn't die to anything, nor did I ask for buffs.

    I'm not talking about you lmao :lol:

    Now are you really asking to nerf potions? Really?

    Yes.

    When a potion-pop can rubber-band a player's health (which is a type of healing that ZOS said they wanted to reduce during the Templar major mending nerf), AND allow for large sustain boosts, that's overperformance in my eyes.
  • Thogard
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    I'd be ok with it. I only use them because everyone else does....
    PC NA - @dazkt - Dazk Ardoonkt / Sir Thogalot / Dask Dragoh’t / Dazk Dragoh’t / El Thogardo

    Stream: twitch.tv/THOGARDvsThePeasants
    YouTube: http://youtube.com/c/thogardpvp


  • Solariken
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    I don't think potions are too strong per se, but I do agree they provide too much instant effect. It's pretty nonsensical if you think about it.
  • Waffennacht
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    .
    Solariken wrote: »
    I don't think potions are too strong per se, but I do agree they provide too much instant effect. It's pretty nonsensical if you think about it.

    I think you're seeing the Argonian Master race (god I almost choked on that, I remember when they were a joke) and the potion passive
    Edited by Waffennacht on October 7, 2017 6:51PM
    Gamer tag: DasPanzerKat NA Xbox One
    1300+ CP
    Battleground PvP'er

    Waffennacht' Builds
  • thankyourat
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    Might as well nerf food and drinks while we're at it
  • WuffyCerulei
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    For the love of Kyne, buff sorc. PC NACP 2100+Star-Sïnger - Khajiit Magicka Sorc - EP Grand Overlord - Flawless Conqueror vMA/vBRP/vDSA no death/vHel Ra HM/vAA HM/vSO HM/vMoL HM/vHoF HM/vAS +2/vCR+3/vSS HMs/vKA HMs/vVH/vRG Oax HM/vDSR
  • Solariken
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    Solariken wrote: »
    I don't think potions are too strong per se, but I do agree they provide too much instant effect. It's pretty nonsensical if you think about it.

    I think you're seeing the Argonian Master race (god I almost choked on that, I remember when they were a joke) and the potion passive

    Yep, but that just exasperates the issue.
  • DocFrost72
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    This is the first and hopefully only time I'll ever have to say this. Don't break pve for pvp balance. IF this ever happens, battle spirit only. This would be ridiculous in PvE.
  • GrumpyDuckling
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    DocFrost72 wrote: »
    This is the first and hopefully only time I'll ever have to say this. Don't break pve for pvp balance. IF this ever happens, battle spirit only. This would be ridiculous in PvE.

    100% agree that it has to be battle spirit.
  • Alpheu5
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    Zvorgin wrote: »
    I thought the consensus was there were too many nerfs and now you want to nerf something everyone benefits from?

    Apparently I missed the meeting about there being too many nerfs, because I'm definitely not in the consensus (when we're talking PVP).

    I'd like to see potion effectiveness be reduced through Battle Spirit to reduce rubber-band healing and resource management.

    What are you talking about? The healing portion of all healing potions (hue hue hue) are already affected by Battle Spirit, as is the healing portion of the Resourceful passive.
    Dalek-Rok - Argonian Sorcerer || Dalek-Shād - Argonian Nightblade || Dalek-Shul - Argonian Templar || Dalek-Xal - Argonian Dragonknight || Mounts-the-Snout - Argonian Warden || Dalek-Xul - Argonian Necromancer || Two-Spires - Argonian Arcanist || Dalek-Nesh - Argonian Sorcerer || Dalek-Kör - Argonian Dragonknight
    Don't incorporate bugs into your builds, and you won't have [an] issue.
  • Sanctum74
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    The only time this is even remotely a problem is fighting an argonian and/or tank. Chances are they are not specced for recovery or damage and that's how they sustain. So in other words they probably can't kill you either so just do a funny dance emote and move on.

    If they are not a tank and are using potions that give a big heal up front and over time then go after their stamina pool first then chip their health away while keeping a defile debuff on them.

    There's always options should you choose to use them.

  • Aurie
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    Might as well nerf food and drinks while we're at it

    Might as well nerf EVERYTHING while we’re at it.

    So what are you waiting for, @ZO$ ?

  • Mureel
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    get rid of PVP altogether. Solved!
  • Vapirko
    Vapirko
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    LOL WUT!? This has to be the nerf thread to end all nerf threads. Yeah potions are so OP.
  • Ankael07
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    This is getting out of control. We need new rules about unconstructive nerf threads in this forum.
    If you want me to reply to your comment type @Ankael07 in it.
  • Thogard
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    Alpheu5 wrote: »
    Zvorgin wrote: »
    I thought the consensus was there were too many nerfs and now you want to nerf something everyone benefits from?

    Apparently I missed the meeting about there being too many nerfs, because I'm definitely not in the consensus (when we're talking PVP).

    I'd like to see potion effectiveness be reduced through Battle Spirit to reduce rubber-band healing and resource management.

    What are you talking about? The healing portion of all healing potions (hue hue hue) are already affected by Battle Spirit, as is the healing portion of the Resourceful passive.
    I’m 90% sure that the first part isn’t true - I don’t believe potions are subject to battle spirit.
    PC NA - @dazkt - Dazk Ardoonkt / Sir Thogalot / Dask Dragoh’t / Dazk Dragoh’t / El Thogardo

    Stream: twitch.tv/THOGARDvsThePeasants
    YouTube: http://youtube.com/c/thogardpvp


  • Zvorgin
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    Armor set bonuses are OP, please nerf or eliminate along with potions. Thanks
  • idk
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    They're too much of a crutch in PVP. They allow for rubber-band healing and create endless 1v1 battles because resource return is too strong with potions.

    A potion with a 45 second CD are a crutch? Seriously not
  • MehrunesFlagon
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    This thread is just stupid.
  • Twohothardware
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    The only one I might like to see removed are Immovability pots. If any of them are a crutch it would be by far Immovable pots. You need to be able to knock players down when they're running certain tanky builds and that's a lot harder when they have pots on top of immunity once they've broken free. The destro bombers are also annoying when they can pop one and then run into a group.
  • paulsimonps
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    DocFrost72 wrote: »
    This is the first and hopefully only time I'll ever have to say this. Don't break pve for pvp balance. IF this ever happens, battle spirit only. This would be ridiculous in PvE.

    100% agree that it has to be battle spirit.

    I have said this for a very long time, STOP USING THIS AS A SUGGESTION! We already know the Devs hate the idea of putting stuff in Battle Spirit.

    And REALLY?! Nerfing potions. How bad do you have to be to want to nerf potions, they only work every 45s, OMG LOOK AT THAT BURST HEAL, DAMN ITS TOO MUCH TO HANDLE, MUST NERF! I mean I saw this tittle and thought you were gonna say some of the more specific potions, but no, you want to nerf the healing ones, that ones that give only a sliver of health back and has a long cooldown..... And from what I remember potions are already affected by battlespirit cause it counts as a heal.
  • Maryal
    Maryal
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    clickbate
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