Potions Need Nerfs

Slack

Nerf idea, take every single number of every ability, every single stat, every single HP pool, and every bonus or buff and cut it into half

Autumnhart

No. But you should feel free not to use them OP, if the fights are too long for you. Enjoy your horse rides.

GrumpyDuckling

idk wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

They're too much of a crutch in PVP. They allow for rubber-band healing and create endless 1v1 battles because resource return is too strong with potions.

A potion with a 45 second CD are a crutch? Seriously not

Most potions have buffs with long durations that span most of that 45 second cooldown.

olsborg

Poisons on the other hand...(costcoughcost)

idk

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

idk wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

They're too much of a crutch in PVP. They allow for rubber-band healing and create endless 1v1 battles because resource return is too strong with potions.

A potion with a 45 second CD are a crutch? Seriously not

Most potions have buffs with long durations that span most of that 45 second cooldown.

Really cannot be serious about increased regen for 45 seconds. the rest of the buffs, the ones that can be significant, last significantly less than 45 seconds.

Poisons are the most balanced part of the game.

Rainraven

Potions. Really.

Obviously the problem is weapon enchants. And if not that, shoes. Nerf shoes.

idk

Rainraven wrote: »

Potions. Really.

Obviously the problem is weapon enchants. And if not that, shoes. Nerf shoes.

I do not think OP is actually serious. It has to be a troll for all those that call for nerfs on everything.

Rainraven

idk wrote: »

Rainraven wrote: »

Potions. Really.

Obviously the problem is weapon enchants. And if not that, shoes. Nerf shoes.

I do not think OP is actually serious. It has to be a troll for all those that call for nerfs on everything.

It's nice of you to give the OP so much credit, but since he's on another PVP thread claiming potions are the true evil of Cyrodiil, apparently he means it.

People will literally blame anything for not being as amazing in PVP as they think they should be. I'm pretty sure it's the day/night cycle. They should get rid of that. Fights are too long by moonlight.

Mazbt

100% disagree. Potions help immensely in movement and survivability when pressured. Big cool down as well. The passives that stick the whole 45 plus seconds are rather tame like more speed, a little more regen, some more healing. Immovability and major vitality, and clever alchemy buffs which are super powerful last like what....15 seconds.

Emma_Overload

I'd really love to see the build of someone who thinks potions need to be nerfed...

CyrusArya

Potions are a fundamental aspect of character building and performance, not so different from food or gear. They allow you to specialize your builds, adding a layer of character building and depth to the game. They are essential to sustain and the established gameplay experience in general, and too big a part of the game to scrap just cus you cant win 1v1s. If you are experiencing an abundance of un-winnable/endless duels....I suggest building for more damage and learning how to play in general.

Without potions, fights would basically end whenever someone runs low on resources. Now that would really be boring- particularly in an open world PvP context which is far more important than duels. Furthermore, they are available to everyone. Stupid nerf thread is stupid.

RABIDxWOLVERINE

Forum whining.... So much forum whining.

Heres an idea get a potion and even the playing field if you feel so disadvantaged.

Crusades

Everyone can use them, potions are in a good spot I say leave them as is.

No nerf needed!

Barbaran

Skills need a nerf. they allow players to do damage, buff and heal. this makes for endless fights.
take out skills and only allow light attacks, heavy attacks do too much damage and give back too many resources

Bam_Bam

L2P

Alpheu5

Thogard wrote: »

Alpheu5 wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Zvorgin wrote: »

I thought the consensus was there were too many nerfs and now you want to nerf something everyone benefits from?

Apparently I missed the meeting about there being too many nerfs, because I'm definitely not in the consensus (when we're talking PVP).

I'd like to see potion effectiveness be reduced through Battle Spirit to reduce rubber-band healing and resource management.

What are you talking about? The healing portion of all healing potions (hue hue hue) are already affected by Battle Spirit, as is the healing portion of the Resourceful passive.

I’m 90% sure that the first part isn’t true - I don’t believe potions are subject to battle spirit.

@Thogard I tested it already last year but here's some of my updated numbers.

Passives and CP, which changes Battle Spirit's 50% effectiveness to somewhere around 59% effectiveness for potions:

Potion 1 with a big heal tooltip:

Potion 2 with healing over time:

Zouni

oxi

altemriel

nope

Minno

thankyourat wrote: »

Might as well nerf food and drinks while we're at it

Food doesn't make your target's spells 60% expensive with no viable counter. Or increase your target ultimate cost. Or snares you. Or adds a dot that gives you back health that can proc valkyn and transmutation.

But some of them are ok. Like minor defile, because if it gave major defile it would be broken on an instant cast, unreactive ability. But some of the poisons aren't tied to the major/minor system and have higher numbers.

They should all be minor buffs (or lower) due to their stackable nature, instant cast potential, and general design intent to provide effects to round out a build.

Azurya

if you can´t take another player down in 43 seconds, cooldown on potion, then you will never get him down.

easy as that

Chilly-McFreeze

Minno wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Might as well nerf food and drinks while we're at it

Food doesn't make your target's spells 60% expensive with no viable counter. Or increase your target ultimate cost. Or snares you. Or adds a dot that gives you back health that can proc valkyn and transmutation.

But some of them are ok. Like minor defile, because if it gave major defile it would be broken on an instant cast, unreactive ability. But some of the poisons aren't tied to the major/minor system and have higher numbers.

They should all be minor buffs (or lower) due to their stackable nature, instant cast potential, and general design intent to provide effects to round out a build.

And that has what to do with potions?

br0steen

Last year I was talking to someone about how complaints on the forums are catalysts for nerfs and my friend said something to the effect of "eventually everything will get nerfed and people will run out of things to complain about so they'll start saying food and potions are op".

I laughed. I never thought the day would come. Yet here we are....

So what's left?
Zos costumes are op please nerf.

Hutch679

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

This is the first and hopefully only time I'll ever have to say this. Don't break pve for pvp balance. IF this ever happens, battle spirit only. This would be ridiculous in PvE.

100% agree that it has to be battle spirit.

Should remove potions from the game! And armor and weapons! The armor and weapons are soooooo OP! Omg and the skills and class abilities, those need removed too they are overperforming! Mounts ride to quickly, they need a speed nerf! The xbox elite controller is overperforming, it should easily be banned also.

That is all.

Waffennacht

Hutch679 wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

This is the first and hopefully only time I'll ever have to say this. Don't break pve for pvp balance. IF this ever happens, battle spirit only. This would be ridiculous in PvE.

100% agree that it has to be battle spirit.

Should remove potions from the game! And armor and weapons! The armor and weapons are soooooo OP! Omg and the skills and class abilities, those need removed too they are overperforming! Mounts ride to quickly, they need a speed nerf! The xbox elite controller is overperforming, it should easily be banned also.

That is all.

Hey... The elite controller isn't cool, it's not ban worthy, but it ain't cool.

I thought I had more... Guess not

Mojmir

Ffs no, whatever they nerf carries over to pve.

NyassaV

Do you just complain about everything?

Minno

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Might as well nerf food and drinks while we're at it

Food doesn't make your target's spells 60% expensive with no viable counter. Or increase your target ultimate cost. Or snares you. Or adds a dot that gives you back health that can proc valkyn and transmutation.

But some of them are ok. Like minor defile, because if it gave major defile it would be broken on an instant cast, unreactive ability. But some of the poisons aren't tied to the major/minor system and have higher numbers.

They should all be minor buffs (or lower) due to their stackable nature, instant cast potential, and general design intent to provide effects to round out a build.

And that has what to do with potions?

Damnit I posted in the wrong thread!

Baconlad

Too many gaggone players would rather us get to the point where were all stacking mag regen/stam regen.

Like...i get ur frustrated, but winning a duel or 1v1 should not be based on whoever runs dry of stamina first, but your reflexes. How fast can you react to stuns, can you hit your potion at the correct time, do you have a proper build and skill bars to counter the enemy's skills/ build.

Zeni has been taking these things slowly...lets not continue the trend.

You call it a crutch...not a friggin crutch just because i have the patiece to farm flowers and make the right pots and use the right pot for a certain job. Just because you dont like to use them...health yoyoing, why does that matter? Maybe you havnt gotten a proper build together? Get one. Play right. Then come complain

Waffennacht

Baconlad wrote: »

Too many gaggone players would rather us get to the point where were all stacking mag regen/stam regen.

Like...i get ur frustrated, but winning a duel or 1v1 should not be based on whoever runs dry of stamina first, but your reflexes. How fast can you react to stuns, can you hit your potion at the correct time, do you have a proper build and skill bars to counter the enemy's skills/ build.

Zeni has been taking these things slowly...lets not continue the trend.

You call it a crutch...not a friggin crutch just because i have the patiece to farm flowers and make the right pots and use the right pot for a certain job. Just because you dont like to use them...health yoyoing, why does that matter? Maybe you havnt gotten a proper build together? Get one. Play right. Then come complain

I hate how long it takes to farm the mats vs how long potion stacks last in combat

GrumpyDuckling

Baconlad wrote: »

Too many gaggone players would rather us get to the point where were all stacking mag regen/stam regen.

Like...i get ur frustrated, but winning a duel or 1v1 should not be based on whoever runs dry of stamina first, but your reflexes. How fast can you react to stuns, can you hit your potion at the correct time, do you have a proper build and skill bars to counter the enemy's skills/ build.

Zeni has been taking these things slowly...lets not continue the trend.

You call it a crutch...not a friggin crutch just because i have the patiece to farm flowers and make the right pots and use the right pot for a certain job. Just because you dont like to use them...health yoyoing, why does that matter? Maybe you havnt gotten a proper build together? Get one. Play right. Then come complain

I don't think you understand where I'm coming from so I'll go more into depth. I'm not coming at this potion nerf request from a point of frustration because we've ALWAYS had rubber-band healing and strong sustain in PVP. I'm quite used to it, and I benefit from it more than not. But I do think a potion nerf should be strongly considered, and there's past precedent that ZOS wants to reduce rubber-band healing and strong sustain (Templar major mending nerf and Morrowind sustain nerfs).

My request for potion nerfs in PVP simply takes ZOS' past stances on rubber-band healing and resource management further. During the Templar major mending nerf, ZOS took an anti-rubber-band healing stance, and used it as justification for the nerf. If ZOS really wants to cut down on rubber-band healing, then I think potion nerfs are the next logical step, as some potions offer boosts that strengthen healing enough to make rubber-banding possible on non-healing focused builds. I think builds are a bit too strong to begin with, especially when we can hit extremely hard and heal extremely well at the same time, WITHOUT potions. Adding potions to the mix makes the build a bit absurd because we're not sacrificing damage for healing.

Morrowind sustain nerfs were largely about forcing players to make a choice between damage and sustain. The major recovery buffs that last for the majority of a potion cooldown period push that choice more towards damage without experiencing a sustain drought, or on the flip side, even further into sustain that creates endless battles, which is why I see potions as a crutch.

It's quite apparent that the most vocal people in this thread are against the idea of a potion nerf, but I haven't read anything yet that changes my mind about potions being the next logical nerf to get closer to achieving ZOS' desire to reduce rubber-band healing and sustain.