Be careful what you people wish for.

A lot of players who know what they are doing long ago stopped dying to Eye of the Storm. Go ahead and destro bomb Dracarys sometime and see how far you get. As it is, even with Negates, CC spam, and other Eye of the Storms, they and other good organized guilds are more than likely going to survive a destro ulti bomb unless caught unprepared.

All those threads complaining about just how frustrating it is that "tanky" players won't die or how small groups lack the tools to wipe out larger number of unskilled players, and yet here many of you are cheering on as the best tool in the game to deal with that unpleasantness is getting nerfed. Exactly how do those on PC NA intend on killing Dracarys if EoTS gets nerfed? Do you intended on using Wrobel's new Shifting Standard that prevents your ultimate regeneration? Or am I suppose to Crystal Blast them now that that morph is so ... "appealing"? And when you group of 5 or 6 gets rolled over by 20 Pugs who don;t know what they are doing, just know in this patch you can at least kill them with a destro bomb. Now NB tether is the only chance to generate enough firepower to break through the defenses of a group like Dracarys (let alone AoE caps), which is going to further pigeonhole all guild PvP DPS to nightblade.

150 ultimate for Sword and Shield ultimate? That's way too expensive. It's a troll ultimate, not one that is dangerous or threatening. You'd think getting hit with two Incaps is comparable to some no damage tank popping a single sword and board ult you can just ignore? No way.

I wonder how people would view the resto ultimate if only the morph no one uses was available? If the issue is potentially 10 seconds of Major Force and Major Protection, then that is what ought to be adjusted rather than just throwing a blanket nerf on it that does nothing to address what people find OP about it in the first place.

Joy_Division wrote: »

Be careful what you people wish for.

A lot of players who know what they are doing long ago stopped dying to Eye of the Storm. Go ahead and destro bomb Dracarys sometime and see how far you get. As it is, even with Negates, CC spam, and other Eye of the Storms, they and other good organized guilds are more than likely going to survive a destro ulti bomb unless caught unprepared.

All those threads complaining about just how frustrating it is that "tanky" players won't die or how small groups lack the tools to wipe out larger number of unskilled players, and yet here many of you are cheering on as the best tool in the game to deal with that unpleasantness is getting nerfed. Exactly how do those on PC NA intend on killing Dracarys if EoTS gets nerfed? Do you intended on using Wrobel's new Shifting Standard that prevents your ultimate regeneration? Or am I suppose to Crystal Blast them now that that morph is so ... "appealing"? And when you group of 5 or 6 gets rolled over by 20 Pugs who don;t know what they are doing, just know in this patch you can at least kill them with a destro bomb. Now NB tether is the only chance to generate enough firepower to break through the defenses of a group like Dracarys (let alone AoE caps), which is going to further pigeonhole all guild PvP DPS to nightblade.

150 ultimate for Sword and Shield ultimate? That's way too expensive. It's a troll ultimate, not one that is dangerous or threatening. You'd think getting hit with two Incaps is comparable to some no damage tank popping a single sword and board ult you can just ignore? No way.

I wonder how people would view the resto ultimate if only the morph no one uses was available? If the issue is potentially 10 seconds of Major Force and Major Protection, then that is what ought to be adjusted rather than just throwing a blanket nerf on it that does nothing to address what people find OP about it in the first place.

Meh, it's just time for a meta shift regardless of whether or not the shift solves the problems you mention. The fact is, the meta of a single NB being able to wipe an entire raid has been around far too long and is completely stale. And you never know, maybe once groups like Drac don't need to build 35k health to counter that--then they won't build to counter that.

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Defensive ultis just need a cost increase to 150, this includes healing thicket

@Lexxypwns ZoS intended for Thicket to be the "OH No" heal, it's relatively low cost is intended to make up for the lack of an instant heal. It may receive a cost increase - but to 150 is too high to maintain it's intended purpose, they said they'd be looking more to change the HoT.

I would be very sad to see Trees go all the way to 150, anything higher than dbos or SA or Incap is very hampering.

If a user can spam SA more often than my Spot heal - I feel screwed lol

150 is not too high for an aoe don't die button, there's no 2 ways about it, warden does not lack a burst heal either. You're comparing single target damage ultis with an aoe defensive one.

I respectfully disagree, Warden's closest burst heal is budding seeds and it at a minimum requires essentially two casts to use.

If the AoE component is a problem, reduce Healing they receive, but in solo circumstances increasing the cost by that much would make it very much no longer a spot heal. It would arguably be the worst heal in game, especially if Panacea costs less.

If you were to nerf trees to that extent you practically force Wardens to use Resto.

Then imagine the PvE blow back. They barely make the grade as tanks or healers, remove the only powerful thing warden brings to the table and he is kicked farther back.

A strong Spot heal is not OP in of itself, BoL shows us that - and they already said they will be looking into the hot component (the part that would make the ult get it's "unkillablility")

Edit: that enchanted fungus move has like half the tooltip of BoL with the same stats. In PvP it's a horrible ability (the passive Regen gain on the self doesn't even pay for itself over the course of the 20 secs)

There is nothing wrong with destro ult IMO. The issue has and always will be destro ulting with retreating manuevers.

usmcjdking wrote: »

There is nothing wrong with destro ult IMO. The issue has and always will be destro ulting with retreating manuevers.

nope
the cap closer spam especial magica nb with the op snare made way more dangerous than it actual is otherwise it was actually not so hard to kite the person to avoid it.

Also the stacking of it in grps made it extrem deadly since you can not dodge or block it and with all the gap close, root and snare spam it is quite hard to avoid, but mostly the gap closer spam.

Shield wall and Panacea just need to bet 125 cost.

Eye of the Storm either needs a damage revert, or snare the caster by 50% while its up.

pieratsos wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Be careful what you people wish for.

150 ultimate for Sword and Shield ultimate? That's way too expensive. It's a troll ultimate, not one that is dangerous or threatening. You'd think getting hit with two Incaps is comparable to some no damage tank popping a single sword and board ult you can just ignore? No way.

I wonder how people would view the resto ultimate if only the morph no one uses was available? If the issue is potentially 10 seconds of Major Force and Major Protection, then that is what ought to be adjusted rather than just throwing a blanket nerf on it that does nothing to address what people find OP about it in the first place.

Too expensive? You meant too cheap right? Cause yeah, at 150 its still too cheap. Just because you dont kill people with it, it doesnt mean its fine. They are defensive ults and they are more potent than offensive ults actually. You can dodge incap and effectively waste it. You cant waste those defensive ults. You basically cant die for their duration and also give you offensive buffs. Snb ult isnt even used as a defensive ult atm. People just pop it to go ham on people freely. Resto ult is the same crap. There is absolutely no thinking on how and when to use those ults and you never get punished for doing mistakes if you dont use them right.

Corrosive armor costs 200 and its worse than snb ult. Soul siphon heals for less, has a smaller duration and its more expensive than resto ult that also provides offensive and defensive buffs too.

Those are not ults that you can say they are not dangerous or threatening. They are part of the reason why no one [snip] dies anymore.

Magma Shell grants a damage shield to six allies, puts out an AoE flame DoT, offers more mitigation, lasts longer, and actually protects the user against skills whose damage can't be blocked, such as DoTs and the aforementioned EoTS. Corrosive does not have the shield for six allies, but enables the user to ignore 100% of an opponent's physical resistance. Both are better than the the Sword and Board ultimate, aside from being more versatile in that you can always use it. And yet so few Dragonknights use Magma. Spending that much ultimate just to not die for a few seconds is not something most players want to do. Heck, Corrosive allows a stam player a far better way "to go ham" as you put it in that they are protected even longer and are attacking a naked target, yet hardly anyone tries it.

You just want to make Sword and Board useless because you're frustrated since you think no one dies (when in fact most people who PvP are not hard to kill at all and don;t use the ultimate in the first place).

You want to kill people, incentivize (as oppose force) people to stop using cheap defensive ultimates and dumb things like Soul Assault? Stop using the old and poor class ultimates like Magma, Soul Siphon, Nova, etc., that are too expensive and too inefficient as the standards of balance. Make it so I can slot a decent offensive ultimate from my class that scales properly with my stats and CP.

[Edited for quote]

Disappointment can be expected.

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Defensive ultis just need a cost increase to 150, this includes healing thicket

@Lexxypwns ZoS intended for Thicket to be the "OH No" heal, it's relatively low cost is intended to make up for the lack of an instant heal. It may receive a cost increase - but to 150 is too high to maintain it's intended purpose, they said they'd be looking more to change the HoT.

I would be very sad to see Trees go all the way to 150, anything higher than dbos or SA or Incap is very hampering.

If a user can spam SA more often than my Spot heal - I feel screwed lol

150 is not too high for an aoe don't die button, there's no 2 ways about it, warden does not lack a burst heal either. You're comparing single target damage ultis with an aoe defensive one.

I respectfully disagree, Warden's closest burst heal is budding seeds and it at a minimum requires essentially two casts to use.

If the AoE component is a problem, reduce Healing they receive, but in solo circumstances increasing the cost by that much would make it very much no longer a spot heal. It would arguably be the worst heal in game, especially if Panacea costs less.

If you were to nerf trees to that extent you practically force Wardens to use Resto.

Then imagine the PvE blow back. They barely make the grade as tanks or healers, remove the only powerful thing warden brings to the table and he is kicked farther back.

A strong Spot heal is not OP in of itself, BoL shows us that - and they already said they will be looking into the hot component (the part that would make the ult get it's "unkillablility")

Edit: that enchanted fungus move has like half the tooltip of BoL with the same stats. In PvP it's a horrible ability (the passive Regen gain on the self doesn't even pay for itself over the course of the 20 secs)

You're comparing trees to resto ult now when they're not even close in power. Healing thicket is currently stronger and cheaper, if they have the same cost then healing thicket will always be the better choice.

Since when is enchanted growth not an effective burst heal? It has a heal similar to dragon blood and rally on an aoe that can heal 6 people, that's 100% a burst heal by any definition imo, not to mention it can proc major mending on itself, making it much stronger than the previously mentioned heals.. If we aren't counting that as a burst heal then the ONLY burst heals are BoL and twilight.

You keep speaking as if these abilities are always used in a group setting. Quite frankly I will never prefer the abilities to be good in group setting and subpar in solo. Now I'm not all that familiar with DK, but for a self burst heal enchanted growth is nowhere near the same numbers. You're lucky to get a 4k heal from a non crit. All heals I can think of are superior

What heal ult would you like to compare it to? I'm comparing it to alternative choices. In a solo scenario I would always pick Panacea over trees if they were the same cost.

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Defensive ultis just need a cost increase to 150, this includes healing thicket

@Lexxypwns ZoS intended for Thicket to be the "OH No" heal, it's relatively low cost is intended to make up for the lack of an instant heal. It may receive a cost increase - but to 150 is too high to maintain it's intended purpose, they said they'd be looking more to change the HoT.

I would be very sad to see Trees go all the way to 150, anything higher than dbos or SA or Incap is very hampering.

If a user can spam SA more often than my Spot heal - I feel screwed lol

150 is not too high for an aoe don't die button, there's no 2 ways about it, warden does not lack a burst heal either. You're comparing single target damage ultis with an aoe defensive one.

I respectfully disagree, Warden's closest burst heal is budding seeds and it at a minimum requires essentially two casts to use.

If the AoE component is a problem, reduce Healing they receive, but in solo circumstances increasing the cost by that much would make it very much no longer a spot heal. It would arguably be the worst heal in game, especially if Panacea costs less.

If you were to nerf trees to that extent you practically force Wardens to use Resto.

Then imagine the PvE blow back. They barely make the grade as tanks or healers, remove the only powerful thing warden brings to the table and he is kicked farther back.

A strong Spot heal is not OP in of itself, BoL shows us that - and they already said they will be looking into the hot component (the part that would make the ult get it's "unkillablility")

Edit: that enchanted fungus move has like half the tooltip of BoL with the same stats. In PvP it's a horrible ability (the passive Regen gain on the self doesn't even pay for itself over the course of the 20 secs)

You're comparing trees to resto ult now when they're not even close in power. Healing thicket is currently stronger and cheaper, if they have the same cost then healing thicket will always be the better choice.

Since when is enchanted growth not an effective burst heal? It has a heal similar to dragon blood and rally on an aoe that can heal 6 people, that's 100% a burst heal by any definition imo, not to mention it can proc major mending on itself, making it much stronger than the previously mentioned heals.. If we aren't counting that as a burst heal then the ONLY burst heals are BoL and twilight.

You keep speaking as if these abilities are always used in a group setting. Quite frankly I will never prefer the abilities to be good in group setting and subpar in solo. Now I'm not all that familiar with DK, but for a self burst heal enchanted growth is nowhere near the same numbers. You're lucky to get a 4k heal from a non crit. All heals I can think of are superior

What heal ult would you like to compare it to? I'm comparing it to alternative choices. In a solo scenario I would always pick Panacea over trees if they were the same cost.

In a solo scenario I'd never run a resto staff if I had enchanted growth and healing thicket. There's literally 0 reason to run resto back bar if you have a heal and defensive ultimate.

A 4K heal * 1.3 for major mending = 5.3k *1.7 CHD modifier = 9k crit heal. That's respectable for an aoe heal.

You can't balance based on solo experiences only

If trees got put at 150 and resto 100 I would.

And 4k with Mending. Tooltip unbuffed usually sits around 5k. I have tried to use it several times and the only build I like it on is a pure damage build (with crit rating etc) but on any other it blows. It's massive in cost. Make it self only and 30% better I'd change my tune

I knew you'd say that about solo play. But if you lean too hard on group play, you alienate both pugs and solo. PuGs might as well be solo experience lol

What annoys me about eye of the storm is they gutted the crap out of prox det which was helping small mans combat Zerg balls then turned around and added eye of the storm which helped make Zerg balls even stronger.

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Defensive ultis just need a cost increase to 150, this includes healing thicket

@Lexxypwns ZoS intended for Thicket to be the "OH No" heal, it's relatively low cost is intended to make up for the lack of an instant heal. It may receive a cost increase - but to 150 is too high to maintain it's intended purpose, they said they'd be looking more to change the HoT.

I would be very sad to see Trees go all the way to 150, anything higher than dbos or SA or Incap is very hampering.

If a user can spam SA more often than my Spot heal - I feel screwed lol

150 is not too high for an aoe don't die button, there's no 2 ways about it, warden does not lack a burst heal either. You're comparing single target damage ultis with an aoe defensive one.

I respectfully disagree, Warden's closest burst heal is budding seeds and it at a minimum requires essentially two casts to use.

If the AoE component is a problem, reduce Healing they receive, but in solo circumstances increasing the cost by that much would make it very much no longer a spot heal. It would arguably be the worst heal in game, especially if Panacea costs less.

If you were to nerf trees to that extent you practically force Wardens to use Resto.

Then imagine the PvE blow back. They barely make the grade as tanks or healers, remove the only powerful thing warden brings to the table and he is kicked farther back.

A strong Spot heal is not OP in of itself, BoL shows us that - and they already said they will be looking into the hot component (the part that would make the ult get it's "unkillablility")

Edit: that enchanted fungus move has like half the tooltip of BoL with the same stats. In PvP it's a horrible ability (the passive Regen gain on the self doesn't even pay for itself over the course of the 20 secs)

You're comparing trees to resto ult now when they're not even close in power. Healing thicket is currently stronger and cheaper, if they have the same cost then healing thicket will always be the better choice.

Since when is enchanted growth not an effective burst heal? It has a heal similar to dragon blood and rally on an aoe that can heal 6 people, that's 100% a burst heal by any definition imo, not to mention it can proc major mending on itself, making it much stronger than the previously mentioned heals.. If we aren't counting that as a burst heal then the ONLY burst heals are BoL and twilight.

Healing Thicket is only stronger when you're in a grp, and if you think thicket will always be the better choice over the resto ulti if they have the same cost, then you need to get your head checked out.

As a magwarden, if they increased the cost of thicket without adding another benefit to it, I will just trash that *** and stay with the resto ulti.