Anyone else notice how un-magical the altmer are?

psychotrip · September 2017

Thestephenmcraeub17_ESO wrote: »

This might be a weird opinion, but I think that ZOS may have decided that Altmer were better suited to vilification than being glorious beacons of cultural and magical superiority. ESO is, at the very least, part of the Elder Scrolls universe. That means it's subject to Elder Scrolls history that has been established throughout the previous games. In almost all previous games, the majority of Altmer are snooty, vain, elitist, racists, exemplified by groups like the Thalmor. They make an easy target for morally-driven quests (i.e., being elitist is bad, go kill those awful elitist altmer). A lot of players come from games like Skyrim, where the altmer were pretty much the worst thing to happen to the province. They were portrayed as suppressors of the freedom to practice specific religions, and that's pretty easy to paint a big red target on. Knowing that a large group of their player base was coming from Skyrim, they probably wanted to maintain some consistency with the players attitudes towards altmer. That could explain why they don't go over the top in making the altmer into the gloriously awesome race of magical masters that they are.

Again, this is all just speculation on possible intentions ZOS may have had when writing altmer characters and designing altmer lands. I agree with OP, I'm team Altmer all the way, and would love to see them get the love and glory they deserve.

You know honestly I think you may have hit the nail on the head here. It's just a shame that, since ESO canon with the main games, this is how Altmer are gonna be from now on. Generic, normal, snobby a-holes who can't back up their snobbery at all. That's what I liked the most about altmer. They were jerks, they were snobs, but the infuriating thing for the other races was that they could back it up. Their society was supposedly super advanced and magical. They pioneered mathematics, alchemy, and magic. It balanced them out as a race and made them more than just snobby villains. Now that's all we're left with. A bunch of boring, snobby racists who have no reason to be snobby racists.

Kajuratus · September 2017

I would agree with OP, I'm really looking forward to seeing mainland Summerset in the future, but if its just like Auridon, it'll be tremendously disappointing. Not that I dislike Auridon, in fact I think its very nice, but compared to mainland Summerset it should look like nix-hound s**t. I guess ZOS felt they had some creative freedom with Auridon, since there wasn't much information about it beforehand, so maybe they made the Altmer architecture more mundane due to time constraints, or limited resources. IIRC, I think they were asked if there would be any glass buildings in Summerset before the game was launched, and the response was something along the lines of "you can't build buildings out of poetry!" which was upsetting to hear. Not to mention ridiculous, since Morrowind has mushroom towers and bug shells that you can live in. Hopefully their stance on this has changed

If Clockwork City is to be believed, and Summerset is where we're going next, I really hope they embrace the known lore rather than see it as a crutch. From what we know of mainland Summerset, Alinor should be a city made of glass, with the architecture reminiscent of insect wings. Cloudrest should be atop the highest mountain in Summerset, Eton Nir, with coral ruins beneath the city. The rest of the cities we don't know much about, so maybe they could take some creative liberties there with some weird magical stuff we haven't seen before

psychotrip · September 2017

Kajuratus wrote: »

I would agree with OP, I'm really looking forward to seeing mainland Summerset in the future, but if its just like Auridon, it'll be tremendously disappointing. Not that I dislike Auridon, in fact I think its very nice, but compared to mainland Summerset it should look like nix-hound s**t. I guess ZOS felt they had some creative freedom with Auridon, since there wasn't much information about it beforehand, so maybe they made the Altmer architecture more mundane due to time constraints, or limited resources. IIRC, I think they were asked if there would be any glass buildings in Summerset before the game was launched, and the response was something along the lines of "you can't build buildings out of poetry!" which was upsetting to hear. Not to mention ridiculous, since Morrowind has mushroom towers and bug shells that you can live in. Hopefully their stance on this has changed

If Clockwork City is to be believed, and Summerset is where we're going next, I really hope they embrace the known lore rather than see it as a crutch. From what we know of mainland Summerset, Alinor should be a city made of glass, with the architecture reminiscent of insect wings. Cloudrest should be atop the highest mountain in Summerset, Eton Nir, with coral ruins beneath the city. The rest of the cities we don't know much about, so maybe they could take some creative liberties there with some weird magical stuff we haven't seen before

Yup. That's an exact quote. "You can't build buildings out of poetry!". That was their original explanation for why Auridon was the way it was. Not because it was a wartorn "buffer zone", but because all the things we thought we knew about altmer society were just "exaggerations" and "transcription errors".

That quote just has a particular sense of condescending arrogance to it, doesn't it? Like we were silly for expecting anything more.

MLGProPlayer · September 2017

psychotrip wrote: »

I don't think you need stellar graphics to portray a magically advanced society. Even if you did, Auridon is just so far below what I was expecting, and I don't understand why the chose to make it this way. Like I said though, I'm clearly in the minority here so I guess I just need to deal with it.

You kind of do. The art style for the entire base game was very bland. Compare Hew's Bane to Alik'r Desert, for example. They are both Redguard zones, but while one is an empty desert with a few sparse settlements, the other is a craggy, highly detailed desert oasis with a sprawling city of densely packed "Middle Eastern-looking" buildings.

Abbah's Landing could pass as a "desert city". Sentinel looks like a small outpost of bland houses (there is no building density, which is a common feature of desert cities).

Edit: Here's sort of what I'm talking about in regards to how shy altmer seem to be around magic. Apparently the entire school of conjuration is evil to them and no true altmer would ever summon a daedra. It's a death sentence apparently...And yet altmer have been doing this in every single game we've seen including the Thalmor in Skyrim. Did this "law" just get abolished after the second era? And what about the entire sorcerer class revolves around daedric magic. What sort of narrative dissonance is this?

I always expected altmer to be masters of magic, snobby elitist nerds who look down on the lesser races for their superstitious fear of power. Lines like these really destroy my love for the altmer and ruin everything I thought they were about.

Only weak mages bargain with daedra as a means of gaining strength. The altmer consider themselves above that. They can achieve immense power by simply training in the magical arts.

They also consider themselves a "moral" race, and the daedra are unquestionably evil by mortal standards (they represent vices, regularly harm mortals, and only help when they can get something in return).

Having said that, you'll still run into altmer who worship daedra or engage in conjuring.

What dialogue are you referring to?

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/372269/spoiler-new-chapter-hinted-at-the-end-of-cwc-main-quest#latest

Kajuratus · September 2017

psychotrip wrote: »

Yup. That's an exact quote. "You can't build buildings out of poetry!". That was their original explanation for why Auridon was the way it was. Not because it was a wartorn "buffer zone", but because all the things we thought we knew about altmer society were just "exaggerations" and "transcription errors".

That quote just has a particular sense of condescending arrogance to it, doesn't it? Like we were silly for expecting anything more.

All we can do is hope they've changed their minds about this, and actually done Alinor some justice.

psychotrip · September 2017

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

psychotrip wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

You need to remember that Morrowind was released 3 years after the game launched.

Stonefalls and Deshaan weren't very magical either. The earlier zones were a product of the devs still not being acquainted with their graphics engine yet.

If we're to believe certain dialogue in Clockwork City, then Summerset might be the next chapter. I imagine we'll see a very different high elf civilization there.

I don't think you need stellar graphics to portray a magically advanced society. Even if you did, Auridon is just so far below what I was expecting, and I don't understand why the chose to make it this way. Like I said though, I'm clearly in the minority here so I guess I just need to deal with it.

What dialogue are you referring to?

Edit: Here's sort of what I'm talking about in regards to how shy altmer seem to be around magic. Apparently the entire school of conjuration is evil to them and no true altmer would ever summon a daedra. It's a death sentence apparently...And yet altmer have been doing this in every single game we've seen including the Thalmor in Skyrim. Did this "law" just get abolished after the second era? And what about the entire sorcerer class revolves around daedric magic. What sort of narrative dissonance is this?

I always expected altmer to be masters of magic, snobby elitist nerds who look down on the lesser races for their superstitious fear of power. Lines like these really destroy my love for the altmer and ruin everything I thought they were about.

Only weak mages bargain with daedra as a means of gaining strength. The altmer consider themselves above that. They can achieve immense power by simply training in magical arts.

They also consider themselves a "moral" race, and the daedra are unquestionably evil by mortal standards (they represent vices, regularly harm mortals, and only help when they can get something in return).

What dialogue are you referring to?

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/372269/spoiler-new-chapter-hinted-at-the-end-of-cwc-main-quest#latest

Again, I feel like this is a clever way of rationalizing what is just sloppy writing. How the hell is daedra summoning a death sentence in altmer society? How can that possibly make sense? I understand there needs to be some space between game mechanics and lore, but how the hell can this be canon if altmer summon daedra all the time in every single game in the series? Including ESO?

MLGProPlayer · September 2017

psychotrip wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

psychotrip wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

You need to remember that Morrowind was released 3 years after the game launched.

Stonefalls and Deshaan weren't very magical either. The earlier zones were a product of the devs still not being acquainted with their graphics engine yet.

If we're to believe certain dialogue in Clockwork City, then Summerset might be the next chapter. I imagine we'll see a very different high elf civilization there.

I don't think you need stellar graphics to portray a magically advanced society. Even if you did, Auridon is just so far below what I was expecting, and I don't understand why the chose to make it this way. Like I said though, I'm clearly in the minority here so I guess I just need to deal with it.

What dialogue are you referring to?

Edit: Here's sort of what I'm talking about in regards to how shy altmer seem to be around magic. Apparently the entire school of conjuration is evil to them and no true altmer would ever summon a daedra. It's a death sentence apparently...And yet altmer have been doing this in every single game we've seen including the Thalmor in Skyrim. Did this "law" just get abolished after the second era? And what about the entire sorcerer class revolves around daedric magic. What sort of narrative dissonance is this?

I always expected altmer to be masters of magic, snobby elitist nerds who look down on the lesser races for their superstitious fear of power. Lines like these really destroy my love for the altmer and ruin everything I thought they were about.

Only weak mages bargain with daedra as a means of gaining strength. The altmer consider themselves above that. They can achieve immense power by simply training in magical arts.

They also consider themselves a "moral" race, and the daedra are unquestionably evil by mortal standards (they represent vices, regularly harm mortals, and only help when they can get something in return).

What dialogue are you referring to?

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/372269/spoiler-new-chapter-hinted-at-the-end-of-cwc-main-quest#latest

Again, I feel like this is a clever way of rationalizing what is just sloppy writing. How the hell is daedra summoning a death sentence in altmer society? How can that possibly make sense? I understand there needs to be some space between game mechanics and lore, but how the hell can this be canon if altmer summon daedra all the time in every single game in the series? Including ESO?

Altmer society is very religious. They shun daedra worship. Why is it strange for a religious society to shun something that goes against their beliefs?

psychotrip · September 2017

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

psychotrip wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

psychotrip wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

You need to remember that Morrowind was released 3 years after the game launched.

Stonefalls and Deshaan weren't very magical either. The earlier zones were a product of the devs still not being acquainted with their graphics engine yet.

If we're to believe certain dialogue in Clockwork City, then Summerset might be the next chapter. I imagine we'll see a very different high elf civilization there.

I don't think you need stellar graphics to portray a magically advanced society. Even if you did, Auridon is just so far below what I was expecting, and I don't understand why the chose to make it this way. Like I said though, I'm clearly in the minority here so I guess I just need to deal with it.

What dialogue are you referring to?

Edit: Here's sort of what I'm talking about in regards to how shy altmer seem to be around magic. Apparently the entire school of conjuration is evil to them and no true altmer would ever summon a daedra. It's a death sentence apparently...And yet altmer have been doing this in every single game we've seen including the Thalmor in Skyrim. Did this "law" just get abolished after the second era? And what about the entire sorcerer class revolves around daedric magic. What sort of narrative dissonance is this?

I always expected altmer to be masters of magic, snobby elitist nerds who look down on the lesser races for their superstitious fear of power. Lines like these really destroy my love for the altmer and ruin everything I thought they were about.

Only weak mages bargain with daedra as a means of gaining strength. The altmer consider themselves above that. They can achieve immense power by simply training in magical arts.

They also consider themselves a "moral" race, and the daedra are unquestionably evil by mortal standards (they represent vices, regularly harm mortals, and only help when they can get something in return).

What dialogue are you referring to?

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/372269/spoiler-new-chapter-hinted-at-the-end-of-cwc-main-quest#latest

Again, I feel like this is a clever way of rationalizing what is just sloppy writing. How the hell is daedra summoning a death sentence in altmer society? How can that possibly make sense? I understand there needs to be some space between game mechanics and lore, but how the hell can this be canon if altmer summon daedra all the time in every single game in the series? Including ESO?

Altmer society is very religious. They shun daedra worship. Why is it strange for a religious society to shun something that goes against their beliefs?

Because this was never in any previous game and directly contradicts every previous game. I don't recall anything about altmer being
zealously religious, at least not moreso than dunmer or nords. Of course they have their own religion which they follow and deeply believe, but I never would have thought of them as superstitious or afraid of getting their hands dirty.

But let's agree that they're very religious: why have altmer been summoning daedra in every single game? Even the thalmor in Skyrim regularly summon them against you. If that's a death sentence then are they all suicidal?

But even if we agree on that, then that still leaves me with my original point: the altmer are far, far less magical than I was hoping for. They're just boring generic high elves that live in gray stone hovels. Meanwhile the dunmer make force-fields out of their own souls, make giant mushroom colonies and levitate all over the place. The altmer are not advanced in any way. It's just a total letdown.

Recremen · September 2017

If I recall correctly, the in-lore reason is that magic has largely been kept from the common folk until glorious Vanus Galerion founded the mages guild and made it accessible. An Altmer from Summerset, you know. Also we still don't technically even have "schools" of magic quite yet, so differentiating between conjuration and other schools is a bit ahistoric.

MLGProPlayer · September 2017

psychotrip wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

psychotrip wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

psychotrip wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

You need to remember that Morrowind was released 3 years after the game launched.

Stonefalls and Deshaan weren't very magical either. The earlier zones were a product of the devs still not being acquainted with their graphics engine yet.

If we're to believe certain dialogue in Clockwork City, then Summerset might be the next chapter. I imagine we'll see a very different high elf civilization there.

I don't think you need stellar graphics to portray a magically advanced society. Even if you did, Auridon is just so far below what I was expecting, and I don't understand why the chose to make it this way. Like I said though, I'm clearly in the minority here so I guess I just need to deal with it.

What dialogue are you referring to?

Edit: Here's sort of what I'm talking about in regards to how shy altmer seem to be around magic. Apparently the entire school of conjuration is evil to them and no true altmer would ever summon a daedra. It's a death sentence apparently...And yet altmer have been doing this in every single game we've seen including the Thalmor in Skyrim. Did this "law" just get abolished after the second era? And what about the entire sorcerer class revolves around daedric magic. What sort of narrative dissonance is this?

I always expected altmer to be masters of magic, snobby elitist nerds who look down on the lesser races for their superstitious fear of power. Lines like these really destroy my love for the altmer and ruin everything I thought they were about.

Only weak mages bargain with daedra as a means of gaining strength. The altmer consider themselves above that. They can achieve immense power by simply training in magical arts.

They also consider themselves a "moral" race, and the daedra are unquestionably evil by mortal standards (they represent vices, regularly harm mortals, and only help when they can get something in return).

What dialogue are you referring to?

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/372269/spoiler-new-chapter-hinted-at-the-end-of-cwc-main-quest#latest

Again, I feel like this is a clever way of rationalizing what is just sloppy writing. How the hell is daedra summoning a death sentence in altmer society? How can that possibly make sense? I understand there needs to be some space between game mechanics and lore, but how the hell can this be canon if altmer summon daedra all the time in every single game in the series? Including ESO?

Altmer society is very religious. They shun daedra worship. Why is it strange for a religious society to shun something that goes against their beliefs?

Because this was never in any previous game and directly contradicts every previous game. I don't recall anything about altmer being
zealously religious, at least not moreso than dunmer or nords. Of course they have their own religion which they follow and deeply believe, but I never would have thought of them as superstitious or afraid of getting their hands dirty.

But let's agree that they're very religious: why have altmer been summoning daedra in every single game? Even the thalmor in Skyrim regularly summon them against you. If that's a death sentence then are they all suicidal?

But even if we agree on that, then that still leaves me with my original point: the altmer are far, far less magical than I was hoping for. They're just boring generic high elves that live in gray stone hovels. Meanwhile the dunmer make force-fields out of their own souls, make giant mushroom colonies and levitate all over the place. The altmer are not advanced in any way. It's just a total letdown.

But all those things you describe about the Dunmer only came to be in Vvardenfell (a DLC that came out 3 years after the game launched). Dunmer in Stonefalls and Deshaan also live in boring grey buildings.

And summoning is not the only form of magic...

psychotrip · September 2017

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

psychotrip wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

psychotrip wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

psychotrip wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

You need to remember that Morrowind was released 3 years after the game launched.

Stonefalls and Deshaan weren't very magical either. The earlier zones were a product of the devs still not being acquainted with their graphics engine yet.

If we're to believe certain dialogue in Clockwork City, then Summerset might be the next chapter. I imagine we'll see a very different high elf civilization there.

I don't think you need stellar graphics to portray a magically advanced society. Even if you did, Auridon is just so far below what I was expecting, and I don't understand why the chose to make it this way. Like I said though, I'm clearly in the minority here so I guess I just need to deal with it.

What dialogue are you referring to?

Edit: Here's sort of what I'm talking about in regards to how shy altmer seem to be around magic. Apparently the entire school of conjuration is evil to them and no true altmer would ever summon a daedra. It's a death sentence apparently...And yet altmer have been doing this in every single game we've seen including the Thalmor in Skyrim. Did this "law" just get abolished after the second era? And what about the entire sorcerer class revolves around daedric magic. What sort of narrative dissonance is this?

I always expected altmer to be masters of magic, snobby elitist nerds who look down on the lesser races for their superstitious fear of power. Lines like these really destroy my love for the altmer and ruin everything I thought they were about.

Only weak mages bargain with daedra as a means of gaining strength. The altmer consider themselves above that. They can achieve immense power by simply training in magical arts.

They also consider themselves a "moral" race, and the daedra are unquestionably evil by mortal standards (they represent vices, regularly harm mortals, and only help when they can get something in return).

What dialogue are you referring to?

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/372269/spoiler-new-chapter-hinted-at-the-end-of-cwc-main-quest#latest

Again, I feel like this is a clever way of rationalizing what is just sloppy writing. How the hell is daedra summoning a death sentence in altmer society? How can that possibly make sense? I understand there needs to be some space between game mechanics and lore, but how the hell can this be canon if altmer summon daedra all the time in every single game in the series? Including ESO?

Altmer society is very religious. They shun daedra worship. Why is it strange for a religious society to shun something that goes against their beliefs?

Because this was never in any previous game and directly contradicts every previous game. I don't recall anything about altmer being
zealously religious, at least not moreso than dunmer or nords. Of course they have their own religion which they follow and deeply believe, but I never would have thought of them as superstitious or afraid of getting their hands dirty.

But let's agree that they're very religious: why have altmer been summoning daedra in every single game? Even the thalmor in Skyrim regularly summon them against you. If that's a death sentence then are they all suicidal?

But even if we agree on that, then that still leaves me with my original point: the altmer are far, far less magical than I was hoping for. They're just boring generic high elves that live in gray stone hovels. Meanwhile the dunmer make force-fields out of their own souls, make giant mushroom colonies and levitate all over the place. The altmer are not advanced in any way. It's just a total letdown.

But all those things you describe about the Dunmer only came to be in Vvardenfell (a DLC that came out 3 years after the game launched). Dunmer in Stonefalls and Deshaan also live in boring grey buildings.

And summoning is not the only form of magic...

Giving all of the dunmer in the entirety of mainland morrowind Indoril buildings was a terrible decision. I can admit it was a logical decision though. As unreasonable as I am even I can acknowledge that certain things need to be cut when you're portraying the majority of Tamriel. "Lore-wise" I at least have a basis for what Narsis for example "actually" looks like, as opposed to what we got in ESO. Even still, the base building for the dunmer is at least....something. Altmer just got gray Rivendell faux-LOTR nonsense.

Can you honestly say there was any sort of imagination at all when designing the altmer cities? Any sort of passion or inspiration? Anything? And what about their culture in general. It's all so bare bones and bare mimimum. THroughout Auridon I just got the sense that Zenimax wanted desperately to skip ahead to Valenwood, so they threw a bunch of high fantasy high elf tropes at the wall without any actual passion behind it. There was no real hook or creativity to any of it. It just felt lifeless. They were more concerned with villainizing the altmer with the veiled heritance and showing how the khajiit and bosmer live under the thumb of the altmer than anything else. What little we got on the altmer was just derivative and boring. A typical "help the pretty princess prove herself" scenario.

Where are the sunbirds? The ships made of petrified starlight? Where's the shining towers? Was all of this a "transcription error"? The whole "auridon is a buffer zone" crap just feels like an excuse to explain why it's so underwhelming. Again, Zenimax just always seems to pick the most mundane interpretation for anything relating to the altmer.

Can we please address the daedra summoning thing? I feel like we're ignoring the elephant in the room. If summoning daedra is a death sentence for the altmer, which it is according to Zenimax, why have altmer been summoning daedra in every single game? Even the thalmor in Skyrim regularly summon them against you. If that's a death sentence then are they all suicidal?

And of course it's not the only form of magic. It's only part of what will become one of the major schools of magic that altmer have bonuses in, which implies they're good at it. I just find this all so derivative and boring. I can understand that we're never going to agree with this. We clearly like altmer for different reasons and that's fine. One of the main reasons I got attached to them was because on the surface they were just the same elitist snobby high elves you see in every fantasy world, but they had this dark edge to them that really drew me in, as well as what I thought was a super-advanced, magical civilization. I was wrong on all fronts here. Everything I liked about them has been watered down, dismissed as "biased" or just flat out retconned.

Recremen wrote: »

If I recall correctly, the in-lore reason is that magic has largely been kept from the common folk until glorious Vanus Galerion founded the mages guild and made it accessible. An Altmer from Summerset, you know. Also we still don't technically even have "schools" of magic quite yet, so differentiating between conjuration and other schools is a bit ahistoric.

According to lore, it was less that magic was kept from the common folk (though that was certainly the case for some lords who specifically wanted to keep the people ignorant) but more about the Psijiic Order being an elitist organization that didn't share their knowledge. There's always been regular people learning about magic in Tamriel. It was simply decentralized into covens or small schools until the Mage's Guild came along.

And my point remains the same: daedra summoning is apparently a death sentence for altmer now...how does that make any sense based on anything we've ever seen in the entirey of this series, including ESO?

SydneyGrey · September 2017

psychotrip wrote: »

He's not saying that the Altmer would put you to death if you summoned a daedra. He's saying that it would be a "death sentence" because daedra are so dangerous. He's saying the daedra would be the ones killing you.

Narvuntien · September 2017

I definately think it has to do with the failings of the first iteration of the game. Stonefalls and Deeshan aren't particularly magical either. It realy bothers me that the Dumner have those tall towers on thier buildings that have no purpose. Eastmarch is overwhlemingly flat compared to Skyrim, unless there was some insane plate uplifting between eastmarch and the rift in the next few centuries there is no way you'll reach the jaw dropping waterfalls of Skyrim. Abads landings is better capital than Sentinal, Wrothgar is one of the most Skyrim like zone in the game even Craglorn has greatly improved verticality in the skyreach area.

I think you could of done better recons. Cryodils jungles were lost when Alessia captured the white gold tower and the work of Akatosh falsely attributed to Tiber as the melding of Tiber into a god, Talos. It is thought that the tower can change the climate based on who controls the tower.

You could of just said, Auridon is less inherently magical as, it was settled by Altmer looking to avoid the magical eccesses, Where magical incidents probably happend all the time, of the main summerset Isle. The Rilis family was a lordship based on battle generalship and Auridon developed with only practical battle magic and serves to defend the rest of the isles. Unfortunately the Rilis family fell to the same issues of families from the main ilse and started delving too deep for power. This leaves the whole island unusally magic adverse for Altmer.

I am just making better fan fiction than the cannon here.

Audion is still amazingly beautiful, but I think you are right about not seeing the potential of the altmer.
There is one pretty interesting quest on auridon with an Altmer really showing off some pretty insane (but evil) magics, it is a little tucked away so you might not of found it, where you get trapped in peoples nightmares.

FluffyReachWitch · September 2017

They're not un-magical at all, and their refusal to worship Daedra has little to do with their abilities or magic. It's been canon that the Altmer worship the Aedra for a long time now. Their pantheon includes Auri-El, Magnus, and other gods, and has since Arena, though in the days of Arena these gods were instead called demi-gods and ancient heroes. Lore that arrived with Redguard and Morrowind put the Aldmeri Aedra on par with the Imperial Divines and cemented Summerset's worship of them, sometimes through a Sithis-worshiping lens that ridiculed worship of anything Anuic.

Aedra-worshiping Altmer tend to have two gods revolving specifically around magic: Magnus and the apprentice Syrabane. Magnus bestows his gift of magicka to mortalkind; Syrabane is a hero-god to the Altmer, credited with using her (sometimes his) magic to repel invasions.

If you continue poking around the lore, you'll find that though magic has long been valued by the Altmer, the opportunity to learn magic or have an education at all were for a long time denied to lower classes. Vanus Galerion helped drag Summerset forward when he founded the Mages Guild, enabling greater access to commoners as long as they had magical ability and wanted to learn.

As for the use of atronachs and bound weapons in Skyrim, we also have established lore reflecting that summoning is not the same thing as worship or bargaining with daedra. Plus, a skilled summoner is in control of the situation. Vanus Galerion himself has summoned dremora and turned them against the forces of Oblivion in battles.

Speaking of TESV, the Thalmor in Skyrim are vastly different from the Thalmor of The Elder Scrolls Online. If you consider The Elder Scrolls Legends to be canon... (see spoiler)

... we find out that Lord General Naarifin of the Aldmeri Dominion used Boethiah's power to conquer the Imperial City...

... which does not necessarily indicate a wider cultural shift, but is very telling about what sort of things the Fourth Era Thalmor are willing to get up to, especially if you consider that the Fourth Era Thalmor have much more in common with the Veiled Heritance than the actual Thalmor of ESO.

But at this time? The Altmer in general are pious and worship the Aedra, who they consider their Ancestors. Giving their souls to the Daedra is incompatible with that.

Kajuratus · September 2017

psychotrip wrote: »

Because this was never in any previous game and directly contradicts every previous game. I don't recall anything about altmer being particularly religious, at least not moreso than dunmer or nords. But let's agree that they're very religious: why have altmer been summoning daedra in every single game? Even the thalmor in Skyrim regularly summon them against you. If that's a death sentence then are they all suicidal?

In regards to Altmer summoning Daedra in other games, we can always assume that summoning daedra is only illegal in Summerset itself. Makes sense, since Daedra worship is illegal (or highly frowned upon, I forget), and Veloth and his followers ended up leaving for Morrowind so they could continue their worship of the Daedra. Necromancy is illegal in Morrowind, yet there are Dunmer summoning undead all the time in other TES games, and you can even summon a bonewalker or a skeleton in the middle of town in TES III and guards won't arrest you or anything. We also shouldn't assume every High Elf comes from Summerset in those games. With the Thalmor summoning atronachs in Skyrim, thats a little tougher to explain because you're right, surely they would follow the laws of Alinor and maybe even enforce the laws against Daedra summoning in the Empire. There could be any number of reasons for this, but maybe those rumours of Daedra worship becoming increasingly prevalent in the Summerset Isles in TES IV suggest that the Thalmor aren't all they appear to be. It makes them far more mundane than if they were trying to unmake the world, but maybe thats the direction they'll take for TES VI, who knows

psychotrip · September 2017

SydneyGrey wrote: »

psychotrip wrote: »

He's not saying that the Altmer would put you to death if you summoned a daedra. He's saying that it would be a "death sentence" because daedra are so dangerous. He's saying the daedra would be the ones killing you.

Except he explicitly says no altmer would ever summon a daedra. Even an atronach. I'm sorry, but I really dont see how else you can interpret this.

Ratzkifal · September 2017

I don't buy into the buffer zone explanation as well, since a magically adept society would fortify their buffer zone with magic, not without.

I replayed the quest for this discussion and yes, it does seem weird, but do not forget that Meromer (or whatever his name is) is a liar. So he might have been exaggerating to divert the suspicion from him. I can imagine that summoning daedra is not forbidden when done professionally and without causing harm. He summoned a Daedra without control over it and the daedra turned the beasts wild.
So perhaps summoning Daedra is like driving. If you can't handle it, thus endangering everyone around you (aka driving without a licence), it is forbidden and punishable. Not sure why it is the death penalty, but that might just be due to the possibly much more severe consequences of summoning daedra compared to driving without a licence.

psychotrip · September 2017

Ratzkifal wrote: »

I don't buy into the buffer zone explanation as well, since a magically adept society would fortify their buffer zone with magic, not without.

Exactly this. It's just a poor excuse they invented after the fans rioted over their previous explanation.

I replayed the quest for this discussion and yes, it does seem weird, but do not forget that Meromer (or whatever his name is) is a liar. So he might have been exaggerating to divert the suspicion from him. I can imagine that summoning daedra is not forbidden when done professionally and without causing harm. He summoned a Daedra without control over it and the daedra turned the beasts wild.
So perhaps summoning Daedra is like driving. If you can't handle it, thus endangering everyone around you (aka driving without a licence), it is forbidden and punishable. Not sure why it is the death penalty, but that might just be due to the possibly much more severe consequences of summoning daedra compared to driving without a licence.

Again, just like our friends @Narvuntien and @MLGProPlayer, I think you're doing what we ES fans always do: parsing words, creating head-canon, and generally making fan-fiction that's better than what the developers gave us. You're extrapolating so much from such a simple series of statements. I'm tired of doing this. Ever since Oblivion we've been trying to reconcile the old lore with the new lore. We barely got that figured out, and now Zenimax is doing its best to confuse things even more by making "certain races" far more mundane than they've previously been described.

Merormo lying about this makes no sense. It would be one thing if he was talking to a nord in High Rock, but if he's lying then someone could easily walk up to another altmer and find out the truth.

"No altmer would ever summon a daedra!"

"Really? Let me ask one of the other thousands of altmer on Auridon if that's true"

"Uhh..you don't have to do that. Just trust me".

It just doesn't make sense, or at the very least is poor writing. Considering the canonreeve shares Merormo's sentiments as well, we have no choice but to accept that, according to Zenimax, no true altmer would ever summon a daedra. This is the reality they've presented us with.

Korah_Eaglecry · September 2017

Mages dont really deal with daedra. Sorcerers do. Theres a difference there.

Mages
Wizards
Sorcerers
Necromancers

They arent the same, but yet arent completely different either.

Mages create spells.
Wizards use spells.
Sorcerers are knowledgeable in Forbidden Knowledge.
Necromancers summon spirits and raise the dead.

As for the lack of magic. Its possible because of Auridons location that it has historically been more of a place of warriors, trades and simpler folk. A threat from Tamriel would likely land in Auridon first and so the island is a little more militaristic and its people mostly coming from that caste, but if any sort of goods and trade was to come from Tamriel....it too would land in Auridon first. So you probably get a group of people there that arent really absolutely true to the Altmer status quo you might find on Summerset.

psychotrip · September 2017

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Mages dont really deal with daedra. Sorcerers do. Theres a difference there.

Mages
Wizards
Sorcerers
Necromancers

They arent the same, but yet arent completely different either.

Mages create spells.
Wizards use spells.
Sorcerers are knowledgeable in Forbidden Knowledge.
Necromancers summon spirits and raise the dead.

As for the lack of magic. Its possible because of Auridons location that it has historically been more of a place of warriors, trades and simpler folk. A threat from Tamriel would likely land in Auridon first and so the island is a little more militaristic and its people mostly coming from that caste, but if any sort of goods and trade was to come from Tamriel....it too would land in Auridon first. So you probably get a group of people there that arent really absolutely true to the Altmer status quo you might find on Summerset.

That's...that's not how it works in The Elder Scrolls at all though dude...

Look up the classes in every game. If you think that's just game mechanics, go back to Morrowind and ask people about mages. Mages study all the schools of magic.

Sorcerers, in Elder Scrolls lore, are mages that focus most on enchantments and summonings. They often enchant heavy armor, which is why many of them are trained in the use of it. Mages balance all forms of magic, including summoning. Including necromancy. This guy is just one example. Play through the Morrowind Mage's Guild questline sometime. In general, mages have no problem with it and think those that do are backwards religious zealots. Now, it's been explicitly stated that altmer have a problem with necromancy, at least on other elves, but some elite altmer have been allowed to study it for the purpose of life extending magic. You'll also notice that the thalmor in Skyrim never use resurrection spells. Nothing in previous lore stated altmer had anything against summoning daedra.

You're ignoring the fact that altmer in every single previous game have summoned daedra. Even in Skyrim. I'm sorry but there's no way around this.

Korah_Eaglecry · September 2017

psychotrip wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Mages dont really deal with daedra. Sorcerers do. Theres a difference there.

Mages
Wizards
Sorcerers
Necromancers

They arent the same, but yet arent completely different either.

Mages create spells.
Wizards use spells.
Sorcerers are knowledgeable in Forbidden Knowledge.
Necromancers summon spirits and raise the dead.

As for the lack of magic. Its possible because of Auridons location that it has historically been more of a place of warriors, trades and simpler folk. A threat from Tamriel would likely land in Auridon first and so the island is a little more militaristic and its people mostly coming from that caste, but if any sort of goods and trade was to come from Tamriel....it too would land in Auridon first. So you probably get a group of people there that arent really absolutely true to the Altmer status quo you might find on Summerset.

That's...that's not how it works in The Elder Scrolls at all though dude...

Look up the classes in every game. If you think that's just game mechanics, go back to Morrowind and ask people about mages. Mages study all the schools of magic.

Sorcerers, in Elder Scrolls lore, are mages that focus most on enchantments and summonings. They often enchant heavy armor, which is why many of them are trained in the use of it. Mages balance all forms of magic, including summoning. Including necromancy. This guy is just one example. Play through the Morrowind Mage's Guild questline sometime. In general, mages have no problem with it and think those that do are backwards religious zealots. Now, it's been explicitly stated that altmer have a problem with necromancy, at least on other elves, but some elite altmer have been allowed to study it for the purpose of life extending magic. You'll also notice that the thalmor in Skyrim never use resurrection spells. Nothing in previous lore stated altmer had anything against summoning daedra.

You're ignoring the fact that altmer in every single previous game have summoned daedra. Even in Skyrim. I'm sorry but there's no way around this.

I never said there isnt crossover here. Just simply pointing out the argument that a Mage by definition does not summon daedra. Someone that has crossed over into Sorcery does.

psychotrip · September 2017

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

psychotrip wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Mages dont really deal with daedra. Sorcerers do. Theres a difference there.

Mages
Wizards
Sorcerers
Necromancers

They arent the same, but yet arent completely different either.

Mages create spells.
Wizards use spells.
Sorcerers are knowledgeable in Forbidden Knowledge.
Necromancers summon spirits and raise the dead.

As for the lack of magic. Its possible because of Auridons location that it has historically been more of a place of warriors, trades and simpler folk. A threat from Tamriel would likely land in Auridon first and so the island is a little more militaristic and its people mostly coming from that caste, but if any sort of goods and trade was to come from Tamriel....it too would land in Auridon first. So you probably get a group of people there that arent really absolutely true to the Altmer status quo you might find on Summerset.

That's...that's not how it works in The Elder Scrolls at all though dude...

Look up the classes in every game. If you think that's just game mechanics, go back to Morrowind and ask people about mages. Mages study all the schools of magic.

Sorcerers, in Elder Scrolls lore, are mages that focus most on enchantments and summonings. They often enchant heavy armor, which is why many of them are trained in the use of it. Mages balance all forms of magic, including summoning. Including necromancy. This guy is just one example. Play through the Morrowind Mage's Guild questline sometime. In general, mages have no problem with it and think those that do are backwards religious zealots. Now, it's been explicitly stated that altmer have a problem with necromancy, at least on other elves, but some elite altmer have been allowed to study it for the purpose of life extending magic. You'll also notice that the thalmor in Skyrim never use resurrection spells. Nothing in previous lore stated altmer had anything against summoning daedra.

You're ignoring the fact that altmer in every single previous game have summoned daedra. Even in Skyrim. I'm sorry but there's no way around this.

I never said there isnt crossover here. Just simply pointing out the argument that a Mage by definition does not summon daedra. Someone that has crossed over into Sorcery does.

I never said all mages do either, but all mages are skilled in all the schools of magic by definition. "Crossing into sorcery" isn't really even a thing in The Elder Scrolls. A sorcerer is just a mage who focuses most on enchantments, summoning, and hoarding and using magical treasures. That's the real distinguishing factor. Mages are the balanced magic class, sorcerers focus more on some things than others.

But again we're getting off topic:

You're ignoring the fact that altmer in every single previous game have summoned daedra. Even in Skyrim. I'm sorry but there's no way around this. Zenimax is claiming something that makes absolutely no sense.

TheNuminous1 · September 2017

psychotrip wrote: »

laced wrote: »

Artis wrote: »

psychotrip wrote: »

Artis wrote: »

That's how lore works, didn't you know? None of the previous lore said that jungle in cyrodiil is just a translation mistake.

None of the previous lore states that one island is not inexplicably less magical than the other.

That's kind of my point though. I'm not questioning whether or not this is a contradiction. I'm questioning the actual choices Zenimax is making that cause all the altmer we've seen so far to be so mundane. Why did they decide to make Auridon so mundane and non-magical?

because The second largest of the Summerset Isles, Auridon has always served the High Elves as a buffer between their serene archipelago and the turmoil of Tamriel. The Altmer of Auridon have been hardened by generations of repelling invaders, pirates, and plagues.

Which makes sense. Gotta protect the mainland.

Oh, also cause maybe it's easier. Or that was the best they came up with. Not sure what type of answer you're expecting, but good luck with that. Maybe the loremaster will write his 5th comment since release, but I doubt it. Can't spend his only comment this year on that. It has to be one comment a year, after all, or so it seems.

I dont think it was just because it was easier. I mean look at grahtwood, or greenshade, or malabl tor, or repeares march, all those places are downright stunning. Auridon has just been constantly at war for so long, any place that has been at war for a certain period of time is generally not so glamarous.

Reaper's March is called Reaper's March because it's constantly at war. I just don't buy this as an excuse for Auridon. If they wanted to make it look war-torn, they could've still made it look magical and interesting, they could have still made the people magical and interesting, but they didn't.

Imagine if a ruined city in Auridon was an almost radioactive magical hazard, because all the magicka-based machinery was malfunctioning. Imagine if altmer refugees were warping into crystalline magical mutants and you needed to fight them off or even cure them for a quest. Imagine if malachite or adamantium golems were tasked with protecting the island, or reparing the constant damage. Imagine if Auridon really was a war-torn, magically advanced society under constant attack from foreign invaders. There are more creative ways to do this than what we got. I just don't buy the "buffer zone" or "war-torn" theory. Like you said, the bosmer zones are much more interesting and creative. I'm honestly starting to think Zenimax just doesn't know what to do with the altmer.

so this comment actually touches on some of what mainland summerset is more like.

is it not obvious that auridon is a ploy. a way to portray themselves as mundane to the lesser races that visit. why have all your goodies laid out for the eyes of the masses? thats just inviting theives and mischief to the land.

plain boring ordinary and no one sticks around or comes back. top that off with the snooty behavior and superiority and why would anyone even want to travel to the mainland. thats what they want. no one to visit!

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://amp.reddit.com/r/teslore/comments/2ze651/datamine_previous_future_aldmeri_dominion/&ved=0ahUKEwjc1_iz7MrWAhXnylQKHZZIBj8QFggvMAE&usg=AFQjCNGx4WW8gMjl0YljqDVIxIepNeT8JA&ampcf=1

but this old datamine quest dialoge. that really unfolds how magical they are

the entire sky is an orrery. magical leylines and varla lens. aquifiry used to terraform the land. the oyiinaam a magical bell that uses sound magic. THE CRYSTAL TOWER! and the landquake cause by the maormers ship that sails through the land!.

trust me there is a ton of magical nonsense on mainland summerset. that info has been datamined for years. it was probably long ago planned to be added as a dlc. my bet a chapter. to much amazing things described to be in the base game.

psychotrip · September 2017

TheNuminous1 wrote: »

psychotrip wrote: »

laced wrote: »

Artis wrote: »

psychotrip wrote: »

Artis wrote: »

That's how lore works, didn't you know? None of the previous lore said that jungle in cyrodiil is just a translation mistake.

None of the previous lore states that one island is not inexplicably less magical than the other.

That's kind of my point though. I'm not questioning whether or not this is a contradiction. I'm questioning the actual choices Zenimax is making that cause all the altmer we've seen so far to be so mundane. Why did they decide to make Auridon so mundane and non-magical?

because The second largest of the Summerset Isles, Auridon has always served the High Elves as a buffer between their serene archipelago and the turmoil of Tamriel. The Altmer of Auridon have been hardened by generations of repelling invaders, pirates, and plagues.

Which makes sense. Gotta protect the mainland.

Oh, also cause maybe it's easier. Or that was the best they came up with. Not sure what type of answer you're expecting, but good luck with that. Maybe the loremaster will write his 5th comment since release, but I doubt it. Can't spend his only comment this year on that. It has to be one comment a year, after all, or so it seems.

I dont think it was just because it was easier. I mean look at grahtwood, or greenshade, or malabl tor, or repeares march, all those places are downright stunning. Auridon has just been constantly at war for so long, any place that has been at war for a certain period of time is generally not so glamarous.

Reaper's March is called Reaper's March because it's constantly at war. I just don't buy this as an excuse for Auridon. If they wanted to make it look war-torn, they could've still made it look magical and interesting, they could have still made the people magical and interesting, but they didn't.

Imagine if a ruined city in Auridon was an almost radioactive magical hazard, because all the magicka-based machinery was malfunctioning. Imagine if altmer refugees were warping into crystalline magical mutants and you needed to fight them off or even cure them for a quest. Imagine if malachite or adamantium golems were tasked with protecting the island, or reparing the constant damage. Imagine if Auridon really was a war-torn, magically advanced society under constant attack from foreign invaders. There are more creative ways to do this than what we got. I just don't buy the "buffer zone" or "war-torn" theory. Like you said, the bosmer zones are much more interesting and creative. I'm honestly starting to think Zenimax just doesn't know what to do with the altmer.

so this comment actually touches on some of what mainland summerset is more like.

is it not obvious that auridon is a ploy. a way to portray themselves as mundane to the lesser races that visit. why have all your goodies laid out for the eyes of the masses? thats just inviting theives and mischief to the land.

plain boring ordinary and no one sticks around or comes back. top that off with the snooty behavior and superiority and why would anyone even want to travel to the mainland. thats what they want. no one to visit!

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://amp.reddit.com/r/teslore/comments/2ze651/datamine_previous_future_aldmeri_dominion/&ved=0ahUKEwjc1_iz7MrWAhXnylQKHZZIBj8QFggvMAE&usg=AFQjCNGx4WW8gMjl0YljqDVIxIepNeT8JA&ampcf=1

but this old datamine quest dialoge. that really unfolds how magical they are

the entire sky is an orrery. magical leylines and varla lens. aquifiry used to terraform the land. the oyiinaam a magical bell that uses sound magic. THE CRYSTAL TOWER! and the landquake cause by the maormers ship that sails through the land!.

trust me there is a ton of magical nonsense on mainland summerset. that info has been datamined for years. it was probably long ago planned to be added as a dlc. my bet a chapter. to much amazing things described to be in the base game.

I made a whole post on this datamine a while back, but then people pointed out how much of this is contradicted by what we got in the actual game, the images above being a prime example. If summoning daedra is something an altmer would never do, then they can't also have the daedric slaves terraforming the land as seen in the datamine. It also contradicts with everything people have been saying against my argument in this thread, that altmer society was never inteded to be outwardly magical like I thought and that magic is something the common folk are ignorant of. That datamine can't still be canon if these people are correct. These two arguments contradict each other.

And I can't tell if you're joking or not, but I can't believe that all of Auridon is just a clever ploy to make outsiders think Summerset is more boring than it really is. That's just...no. I feel like we're once again doing our best to fill in Zenimax's gaps.

Korah_Eaglecry · September 2017

psychotrip wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

psychotrip wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Mages dont really deal with daedra. Sorcerers do. Theres a difference there.

Mages
Wizards
Sorcerers
Necromancers

They arent the same, but yet arent completely different either.

Mages create spells.
Wizards use spells.
Sorcerers are knowledgeable in Forbidden Knowledge.
Necromancers summon spirits and raise the dead.

As for the lack of magic. Its possible because of Auridons location that it has historically been more of a place of warriors, trades and simpler folk. A threat from Tamriel would likely land in Auridon first and so the island is a little more militaristic and its people mostly coming from that caste, but if any sort of goods and trade was to come from Tamriel....it too would land in Auridon first. So you probably get a group of people there that arent really absolutely true to the Altmer status quo you might find on Summerset.

That's...that's not how it works in The Elder Scrolls at all though dude...

Look up the classes in every game. If you think that's just game mechanics, go back to Morrowind and ask people about mages. Mages study all the schools of magic.

Sorcerers, in Elder Scrolls lore, are mages that focus most on enchantments and summonings. They often enchant heavy armor, which is why many of them are trained in the use of it. Mages balance all forms of magic, including summoning. Including necromancy. This guy is just one example. Play through the Morrowind Mage's Guild questline sometime. In general, mages have no problem with it and think those that do are backwards religious zealots. Now, it's been explicitly stated that altmer have a problem with necromancy, at least on other elves, but some elite altmer have been allowed to study it for the purpose of life extending magic. You'll also notice that the thalmor in Skyrim never use resurrection spells. Nothing in previous lore stated altmer had anything against summoning daedra.

You're ignoring the fact that altmer in every single previous game have summoned daedra. Even in Skyrim. I'm sorry but there's no way around this.

I never said there isnt crossover here. Just simply pointing out the argument that a Mage by definition does not summon daedra. Someone that has crossed over into Sorcery does.

I never said all mages do either, but all mages are skilled in all the schools of magic by definition. "Crossing into sorcery" isn't really even a thing in The Elder Scrolls. A sorcerer is just a mage who focuses most on enchantments, summoning, and hoarding and using magical treasures. That's the real distinguishing factor. Mages are the balanced magic class, sorcerers focus more on some things than others.

But again we're getting off topic:

You're ignoring the fact that altmer in every single previous game have summoned daedra. Even in Skyrim. I'm sorry but there's no way around this. Zenimax is claiming something that makes absolutely no sense.

Youre ignoring every other post that has ripped your flawed opinions to shreds to focus in on these "off topic" posts. You seem quite upset that people arent patting you on the back for bashing ZOS which is the real intent of this topic.

TheNuminous1 · September 2017

psychotrip wrote: »

TheNuminous1 wrote: »

psychotrip wrote: »

laced wrote: »

Artis wrote: »

psychotrip wrote: »

Artis wrote: »

That's how lore works, didn't you know? None of the previous lore said that jungle in cyrodiil is just a translation mistake.

None of the previous lore states that one island is not inexplicably less magical than the other.

That's kind of my point though. I'm not questioning whether or not this is a contradiction. I'm questioning the actual choices Zenimax is making that cause all the altmer we've seen so far to be so mundane. Why did they decide to make Auridon so mundane and non-magical?

because The second largest of the Summerset Isles, Auridon has always served the High Elves as a buffer between their serene archipelago and the turmoil of Tamriel. The Altmer of Auridon have been hardened by generations of repelling invaders, pirates, and plagues.

Which makes sense. Gotta protect the mainland.

Oh, also cause maybe it's easier. Or that was the best they came up with. Not sure what type of answer you're expecting, but good luck with that. Maybe the loremaster will write his 5th comment since release, but I doubt it. Can't spend his only comment this year on that. It has to be one comment a year, after all, or so it seems.

I dont think it was just because it was easier. I mean look at grahtwood, or greenshade, or malabl tor, or repeares march, all those places are downright stunning. Auridon has just been constantly at war for so long, any place that has been at war for a certain period of time is generally not so glamarous.

Reaper's March is called Reaper's March because it's constantly at war. I just don't buy this as an excuse for Auridon. If they wanted to make it look war-torn, they could've still made it look magical and interesting, they could have still made the people magical and interesting, but they didn't.

Imagine if a ruined city in Auridon was an almost radioactive magical hazard, because all the magicka-based machinery was malfunctioning. Imagine if altmer refugees were warping into crystalline magical mutants and you needed to fight them off or even cure them for a quest. Imagine if malachite or adamantium golems were tasked with protecting the island, or reparing the constant damage. Imagine if Auridon really was a war-torn, magically advanced society under constant attack from foreign invaders. There are more creative ways to do this than what we got. I just don't buy the "buffer zone" or "war-torn" theory. Like you said, the bosmer zones are much more interesting and creative. I'm honestly starting to think Zenimax just doesn't know what to do with the altmer.

so this comment actually touches on some of what mainland summerset is more like.

is it not obvious that auridon is a ploy. a way to portray themselves as mundane to the lesser races that visit. why have all your goodies laid out for the eyes of the masses? thats just inviting theives and mischief to the land.

plain boring ordinary and no one sticks around or comes back. top that off with the snooty behavior and superiority and why would anyone even want to travel to the mainland. thats what they want. no one to visit!

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://amp.reddit.com/r/teslore/comments/2ze651/datamine_previous_future_aldmeri_dominion/&ved=0ahUKEwjc1_iz7MrWAhXnylQKHZZIBj8QFggvMAE&usg=AFQjCNGx4WW8gMjl0YljqDVIxIepNeT8JA&ampcf=1

but this old datamine quest dialoge. that really unfolds how magical they are

the entire sky is an orrery. magical leylines and varla lens. aquifiry used to terraform the land. the oyiinaam a magical bell that uses sound magic. THE CRYSTAL TOWER! and the landquake cause by the maormers ship that sails through the land!.

trust me there is a ton of magical nonsense on mainland summerset. that info has been datamined for years. it was probably long ago planned to be added as a dlc. my bet a chapter. to much amazing things described to be in the base game.

I made a whole post on this datamine a while back, but then people pointed out how much of this is contradicted by what we got in the actual game, the images above being a prime example. If summoning daedra is something an altmer would never do, then they can't also have the daedric slaves terraforming the land as seen in the datamine. It also contradicts with everything people have been saying against my argument in this thread, that altmer society was never inteded to be outwardly magical like I thought and that magic is something the common folk are ignorant of. That datamine can't still be canon if these people are correct. These two arguments contradict each other.

And I can't tell if you're joking or not, but I can't believe that all of Auridon is just a clever ploy to make outsiders think Summerset is more boring than it really is. That's just...no. I feel like we're once again doing our best to fill in Zenimax's gaps.

well obviously things will have changed by the time this comes out. if it comes out.

and altmer are really good at defining exactly what is proper and following it to a tee. so if there was a proper way to summon and control daedra im sure they would use is. and ya ok it says in the old datamine that aquifiry and daedric in origin but how simole would it be to explain they are a magical construct or spell used for terraforming and other labor.

and its not like its this ploy that lays on the tops of auridon citizens minds. its probably just a know fact to keep auridon a little less magical then the mainland. is that so hard to believe. that a xenophobic race that lives hundreds of years wouldent want outsiders to know the inner working of their magical abilities?

and I myself have made a thread or two about this datamine only to be met with skeptisms and denial. but with the new idea of chapters. and with the ending of clockwork. my dreams are closer then ever

summerset is the sequence of the words.

SydneyGrey · September 2017

psychotrip wrote: »

Except he explicitly says no altmer would ever summon a daedra. Even an atronach. I'm sorry, but I really dont see how else you can interpret this.

Well, he said they'd never "bargain" with daedra, and that summoning one would be deadly for them. Not quite the same thing. Sorry, that's just how I interpret it. Other people are free to interpret it differently.

stevepdodson_ESO888 · September 2017

psychotrip wrote: »

This is totally random I know, but it's been bothering me for a while. I was playing through Morrowind, exploring the weird, alien, often magical culture of the dunmer when I began to notice this.

After teleporting from Vvardenfell to Vulkhel Guard, it really started to set in: the altmer aren't very magical are they?

Previous descriptions described altmer culture as inherently magical. They're supposedly advanced in both magic and science, and their cities are described as being grand, magical and alien. Meanwhile in ESO, altmer society on Auridon seems positively mundane. Boring stone cities, citizens who seem terrified of mages. There seems to be far more warriors in altmeri culture than wizards.

Altmer Sorcerer players in ESO, and even the justiciars in Skyrim summon daedra frequently. According to previous games, altmer use necromancy to keep themselves young. Yet in ESO, the altmer seem completely closed-minded and backwards when it comes to these practices. I've even had roleplayers tell me that altmer despise those who summon daedra. At the very least, the player perception of these people seems to have completely shifted toward something far more boring and mundane.

Altmer are supposed to be the most magically advanced society in the world. Their entire playstyle is based on magic, and yet it seems Zenimax had no interest in displaying this. Sometimes I wonder why Zenimax is so eager to allow other races to be strange and unique, but insist on toning down everything interesting about the altmer.

I know the argument we always come back to is "multiple interpretations" and "transcription errors", but I still feel like altmer deserve better than this. Compared to anywhere else in Tamriel, what makes Altmer culture magical at all?

Edit: Here's sort of what I'm talking about in regards to how shy altmer seem to be around magic. Apparently the entire school of conjuration is evil to them and no true altmer would ever summon a daedra, even an atronach. It's a death sentence apparently...And yet altmer have been doing this in every single game we've seen including the Thalmor in Skyrim. Did this "law" just get abolished after the second era? And what about the entire sorcerer class revolves around daedric magic. What sort of narrative dissonance is this?

I always expected altmer to be masters of magic, snobby elitist nerds who look down on the lesser races for their superstitious fear of power. Lines like these really destroy my love for the altmer and ruin everything I thought they were about.

take a look at the origins or Psijic Order and the changes to Altmer culture (link below) it might explain a few things

http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Psijic_Order

WatchYourSixx · September 2017

I've always thought Auridon, and parts of Greenshade and Malabar Tor had that magical highelf feel to it. Especially Auridon. Maybe that's just me

Artis · September 2017

psychotrip wrote: »

He said nothing about intelligent daedra. I think you'r trying to make sense where there is none. He said daedra. He didn't qualify that statement. Neither did anyone else in the quest. He even explicitly includes atronachs in that statement.

"To even consider summoning one of those monsters. I'd be inviting a death sentence. The atronachs at least. They're more constructs...no, a death sentence."

Altmer hate daedra summoning now and it's a death sentence.

Also, if there's anything we can agree on I think it's that altmer tend to be pretty snobby. But even if we forget that, I was still expecting them to be advanced magical nerds who look down on the lesser races for their superstitious fear of power. I was not expecting mundane, generic high elves living in generic stone hovels. I'm sure most people prefer this interpretation but I just...if this is what the altmer are now, then I guess they're not my favorite race anymore. You can use the "auridon is different for some reason" argument, but I've seen no indication that the rest of summerset isn't the same, and no reason why the people of auridon are so different.

Nope, you're wrong. Look at the context. And look at how the quest ends. He does include atronachs with the words "at least", so it's atronachs and dudes above. Not scamps and such. Then again, just because he thinks so, doesn't mean everyone thinks so. It's not altmer who hate daedra, it's him. Altmer (according to him again) only hate bargaining with daedra, and that obviously means intelligent daedra who can bargain. Stop mixing things.