My sorcerer is completely useless.

Octopuss
Octopuss
✭✭✭✭✭
I have recently finished getting the gear I wanted, and thought I was - except for dying way too often (which is likely due to player skills - I am new) - doing fine enough. Until yesterday. We attempted that Aetherial or something trial on veteran mode, and just couldn't kill the 2nd to last boss due to lack of dps (that's the assumption).
After paying some attention to Combat Metrics, I realized I was doing only pathetic 6k dps, and I was told I was supposed to do over 20 as a sorcerer. I went to the guild house and tried on a target skeleton for a while, but no matter what I did and what skills I used in whatever order, highers I could get was about 6300 while busting my ass off.
I have absolutely no idea what am I doing wrong. There are definitely some areas for improvement, for example I've just remembered I should enchant the jewellry and make a glyph for my staff, but I presume that would still not get my anywhere close to even 10k or something.
I was given a link to the alcasthq.com website, and the guide I read basically mentioned the same skills I was using, only in different order, so it shouldn't be that that's causing the problem.

I guess I could use an armour tip as a start.
I am using combination of Netch's Touch and Spider Cultist sets (5+5). I originally used Mother's Sorrow instead of the latter, but swapped them around with the idea that I don't necessarily need 65% crit for group purposes, and instead went for the huge +damage bonus for destruction staff skills.
Is there any flaw in that thought process?

The other question I have, do people use Energy Overload for trials/dungeons? That website doesn't list that in the build. I don't quite understand, because the damage is huge. It also suggests using Meteor instead of the destr. staff ultimate, which deals a lot more total damage.
  • Morvane
    Morvane
    ✭✭✭✭
    Julianos+Netch+Ilambris
    Netch+Necro+Daedroth

    500+cp. Decent rotation with LA.

    20+ or 35k with ultimate (from destrostaff, no overload) is yours
    Edited by Morvane on September 28, 2017 12:03PM
    DC Dunmer Sorcerer since 2014
    @morvayn54, PC/EU
    Options
  • pdebie64b16_ESO
    pdebie64b16_ESO
    ✭✭✭
    Do you have divines trait on your gear, infused, sharpened, charged, nirnhoned on your staffs, are your staffs golden, do you have shock enchants on your staffs (golden), spell damage on your jewelry (golden), cp distribution right, all stat points in magicka, do you weave skills/la/ha, are you using the right potions, are you using pet(s) and if so the aoe ability from the volitair?

    All this will help to improve your dps.
    Options
  • Octopuss
    Octopuss
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    I don't/won't use shock enchant on the staff because I read it doesn't stack with something somewhere and if I remember correctly, it's a waste of enchantment. I will use the +spell damage glyph instead.
    My armour is about half divines and half infused.
    I did not put all the points in magicka because that would only get me killed a lot more often (I think I have 10-15 points in health).
    I use crit trait on the staff.
    CP distribution is questionable, there are numerous ways to do it. I am only CP209 so I have to be careful how many points I spend where.
    I do not use pets and never will.
    Options
  • dickeybarret
    dickeybarret
    ✭✭
    Octopuss wrote: »
    I don't/won't use shock enchant on the staff because I read it doesn't stack with something somewhere and if I remember correctly, it's a waste of enchantment. I will use the +spell damage glyph instead.
    My armour is about half divines and half infused.
    I did not put all the points in magicka because that would only get me killed a lot more often (I think I have 10-15 points in health).
    I use crit trait on the staff.
    CP distribution is questionable, there are numerous ways to do it. I am only CP209 so I have to be careful how many points I spend where.
    I do not use pets and never will.

    Shock enchant on an infused lighting staff will give a nice boost of damage, and the reason most will tell you to put all points in magika is the way skills scale off your max magika, so by putting points in anything else, your in essence gimping yourself. On a sorc, power surge and hardened ward is enough to mitigate almost everything. But to the point on increasing your DPS. Make sure your DOTs (Liquid lightning, Blockade of elements, etc) are up all the time as they provide a hardy chunk of your DPS, and destro staff ulti is way better for melting things. If you want to have the spell damage glyph, put it on the back bar.
    Options
  • Eyesinthedrk
    Eyesinthedrk
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    No overload. It hits hard but it fires slow. And doesn't allow you to reapply wall of elements.

    Destro ult in the beginning. And if you're in a fight that needs you to hold ult till a certain phase. An example being the aa fight you were in. When the whisp mother sends the adds to the pillars that's a good time to drop ults if DPS is low. But otherwise after the first ult, you want to drop meteor as it's ready to fire a lot sooner and consiqurncly more often.

    You haven't mentioned race or level.
    Options
  • Octopuss
    Octopuss
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    I am CP209 or something. Breton.


    How about the armour question? That went overlooked.
    Options
  • dickeybarret
    dickeybarret
    ✭✭
    Netch is fine for a non pet sorc, try pairing it with julianos. Using a crafted set will give you the freedom to try different weapon traits. But more then armor, it's about rotation. What skills are you casting in what order? (Order does matter)
    Options
  • Horowonnoe
    Horowonnoe
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Octopuss wrote: »
    I am CP209 or something. Breton.


    How about the armour question? That went overlooked.

    Are you on pc/na? If so - message me. I main a sorc and might be able to help.

    As for gear and other thigs i have seen so far on your thread:

    1. Dont use that spider cultist or whatever set you are using.
    2. Whoever told you that shock enchants dont stack or something rather is a dummy. Dont listen to them. Front bar an infused shock staff and enchant it with a shock damage glyph. Dont be a cheapo and use kuta to enchant it then gold out your staff. That alone will increase your dps by like 6-7k.
    3. Back bar either a vma shock staff or a crafted infused or nirnhoned shock staff and enchant it with wep damage glyph. Gold it out too and use gold enchant!!!!
    4. Use good jewelry (set such as willpower if you dont have moondancer or infallible) and enchant it with spell damage glyphs. U can make on jewelry be mag regen if u need.
    5. Use pets. They also add about 4k dps and add health to you therefore givig u survivability. There are very few fights where u cant use pets. One of them being the mage but most others are fine. Super nice to have pets on wispmother. The boss u pulled 6k on. Sorcs this patch pull high 30s-low 40s k dps on that boss this patch fyi.
    6. Really - do use pets.
    7. If u use pets - use necropotence 5pc. On fights where you cant use pets - use 5pc julianos, 2pc ilambris, 3pc willpower (if u dont have trials sets).
    8. Check out nos's sorc build. It has a nice writeup. Here -http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/noss-highly-improbable-but-possibly-workable-sorc-build/
    9. Did i say use pets? Esp for a beginner its an easier way to get good dps. Once u learn to weave and master your rotation, you can try to remove them and see where u can get. On a target dummy by myself this patch i have gotten 39k with pets on my sorc. Around 36-37k without pets. I am also max cp. but you should be able to break 30k or at least 25k ezpz tho.
    10. Ummm good luck and dont listen to dummies?
    PC / NA
    Templar Healer "False Eye"
    Sorc Healer "Potema the Wolf Queen"
    Warden Healer "Heavy Attacks Online"
    Magicka Nightblade DPS "Nephaleth Telvanni"
    Dragonknight Tank "Nico's Facsimile"

    Builds & Guides:
    Horow's Templar Healer Guide for Trials (Murkmire updated)
    How to get Felms to jump correctly in vAS HM?
    Horow's vMA Magicka Sorc Build for beginners and lazy farmers
    Horow's Magicka Sorc Triple Pet Heavy Attack Build - Summerset Isles Ready
    More builds at anthem-guild.com/pve/.

    Notable Achievements:
    - World's first 18 Axes vAA clear
    - World's first 20+ enrage stack Llothis in vAS HM and World record cone damage
    Options
  • Octopuss
    Octopuss
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    "1. Dont use that spider cultist or whatever set you are using."
    Sorry this is not helpful at all.

    The thing about enchants is that I repeatedly read that the +magic damage glyph results in more damage than +shock/flame/whatever.

    I keep reading "use 5x this, 2x this, 2x that", but why? Why should I give up another 5 pieces bonus?

    My rotation is something semi-random. I basically drop Haunting curse and Shock clench, followed by Liquid lighting and Blockade of storms, and spam Force pulse (and heavy attacks when I run out of magicka) until it's time ro refresh all the skills with a duration. Oh and obviously i try to keep Surge up all the time.


    P.S. I don't understand any of the acronyms. I've been playing the game for less than two months.
    Options
  • dpencil1
    dpencil1
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    @Octopuss
    Which acronyms are you referring to?

    The Shock and Fire enchants actually do net you more overall damage now. This was not so much the case before Infused got buffed, so the data you are reading is probably old. While it is true that Concussed (the status effect that lightning damage has a chance to cause) won't stack with other players, reapplying it will refresh it's duration, so having multiple people applying it helps keep the uptime closer to 100%. Also, I believe Burning actually stacks, so everyone can use it to full effect. I have done pretty extensive testing on the test server in preparation for the Clockwork City patch and I consistently get lower dps using the Weapon Damage glyph compared to using Shock and Fire.

    Your rotation should start with the damage over time skills (dots). Liquid Lightning, then Blockade of Storms, then Haunting Curse. You could use Shock Clench if you really want, but it's mostly unnecessary and too costly on your magicka for what it gives. If you don't have Crystal Fragments on your bar, drop Shook Clench for that and use Frags where it procs (becomes an instant cast - hands glow purple). Do one heavy attack in every rotation. Light Attack just before every skill.

    Here's a parse I did earlier today on the test server using the new Asylum destro staff:
    Nopet_39k.jpg
    Edited by dpencil1 on September 28, 2017 4:29PM
    Options
  • T3hasiangod
    T3hasiangod
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Octopuss wrote: »
    "1. Dont use that spider cultist or whatever set you are using."
    Sorry this is not helpful at all.

    The thing about enchants is that I repeatedly read that the +magic damage glyph results in more damage than +shock/flame/whatever.

    I keep reading "use 5x this, 2x this, 2x that", but why? Why should I give up another 5 pieces bonus?

    My rotation is something semi-random. I basically drop Haunting curse and Shock clench, followed by Liquid lighting and Blockade of storms, and spam Force pulse (and heavy attacks when I run out of magicka) until it's time ro refresh all the skills with a duration. Oh and obviously i try to keep Surge up all the time.


    P.S. I don't understand any of the acronyms. I've been playing the game for less than two months.

    Spider Cultist is not useful because it only buffs Destruction Staff abilities. This means it will only buff: Force Pulse/Crushing Shock, Blockade of Elements, Destructive Clench, and your LA/HA. It WILL NOT buff any other skill.

    Whoever told you that the Weapon Damage glyph gives you more DPS than a Flame or Shock glyph is talking out of their ass. Flame and Shock glyphs dish out a non-insignificant amount of DPS. There's a reason why the top raiders are using these enchants on their main weapons and the Weapon Damage glyph on their off-hand.

    You need to give up another 5 piece bonus as a sorc because you have a max of 11 equipment slots: 7 armor, 3 jewelry, 1 weapon. This means that having two 5 piece sets results in sacrificing your monster set. Now, in some cases, you can combine two 5 piece sets with a 1 piece monster helm and see great results (e.g. Necro + Juli + Iceheart for pet builds). However, people who do this generally have a good grasp of the game mechanics and their rotations such that the loss of the 2 piece monster helm effect results in a minimal drop in DPS.

    Finally, your rotation should NOT be semi-random. Your rotation makes or breaks your DPS. There are people who have BiS gear who can't pull more than 10k DPS because their rotation is "semi-random".
    PC/NA - Mayflower, Hellfire Dominion

    Dro-m'Athra Destroyer - Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor - Voice of Reason - Gryphon Heart - The Unchained - Extinguisher of Flames

    Tank - Healer - DPS (all classes, all specs)

    Youtube - Twitch
    Options
  • Octopuss
    Octopuss
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    I am not sure about the fragments. Instant cast is nice, but it looks pretty unreliable.
    Are you saying Shock clench is generally not used much due to the magicka cost? I see it as a part of the rotation on alcasthq.

    I guess I can try creating another quickbar profile specifically for group purposes and flip skills around. Right now, on bar 1 I have Force pulse, Shock clench, Storm pulsar, Haunting curse, Ward, and on bar 2 Liquid lightning, Blockade of storms, Boundless storm, Surge.
    Options
  • s7732425ub17_ESO
    s7732425ub17_ESO
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    CP 209 so your DPS is going to be *** anyways.

    However, you can still make significant improvements just by getting decent gear and using the correct enchants (gold, infused, CP 160, lightning staff with lightning enchant, and gold, whatever, CP 160, lightning staff with +spell damage).

    After you get gear in order, you need to work on your rotation. Perfecting your rotation will literally double or triple your DPS in your case (I'm not joking).
    Options
  • dpencil1
    dpencil1
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Fragments also has the benefit of procing Minor Prophesy to your group (increasing everyone's crit chance by 5%). Only one person needs to be using it, obviously, but still. It has a very high proc chance with Force Pulse because Pulse counts as 3 attacks in 1. You are almost guaranteed to get one proc of Frags in each rotation, if not more. Also, Pulsar has no business being on your bar. It is a trash skill. Keep Clench if you want and swap out Pulsar for Frags. Lightning heavy attacks are just as powerful as Pulsar and restore magicka instead of draining it.

    You also didn't list your 5th skill on your 2nd bar. Ideally, you'd want to be double barring Bound Aegis and slotting Inner Light on your front bar to get more max magicka.
    Edited by dpencil1 on September 28, 2017 4:41PM
    Options
  • MissBizz
    MissBizz
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    The last 2 days I've been working on my Sorc... and consistently I'm getting 25k. Though I did get as high as 28k... following a cross between what dpencil1 is suggesting, and alcast.

    Wearing 5 netch, 5 juli. I use a random infused lightning staff with shock enchant on front, an infused VMA staff on back. If you don't have a VMA staff I'd make the staffs juli, and throw on a monster helm or shoulder, like kena or iceheart.

    Liquid Lightning -> Wall -> Curse SWAP
    Force Pulse -> Force Pulse -> Force Pulse SWAP
    Liquid Lightning -> Wall -> Clench SWAP
    Heavy Attack-> Force Pulse SWAP
    Repeat.

    At 20%, (@dpencil1 feel free to chime in if I'm doing this wrong...) I do...
    Liquid Lightning -> Wall -> Curse SWAP
    Mages Wrath x3 SWAP
    Liquid Lightning -> Wall SWAP
    Mages Wrath x3 SWAP
    Repeat
    Always light attacks in between, heavies on mages wrath line if needed.

    During test dummy parses, I'm throwing in elemental drains as needed during the force pulse lines.

    For bars, I'm using what Alcast shows on his page (aka using inner light, not using boundless storm)

    Still working on the exactly how many force pulses with/without a heavy. I tried using Frags, but I found it harder because due to proccing I had to be able to decide on the fly if I need another force pulse or not before swapping etc... so this seemed easier. I also LA between everything.

    Actually doing the rotation correctly matters a LOT.. like a LOT. I was doing less with Frags, but I'm pretty sure it's because I was uncomfortable with the "guesswork" of adding it in whenever it procced via just being exactly in order like the rotation I used above. Don't just try the test dummy once. Do it over and over. As you get timing down, you will see that DPS slowly rise. At first, I was hitting 19k, but the more I practiced, the higher I would (consistently) get.

    I'm definitely not the best, but this was the "easiest" rotation I found for me, that seems to be good enough for me!

    [Edit] I'm also using the ultimates Alcast lists, but I don't use shooting star. I just use Ele Rage as soon as it's available. Keeping shooting star just as a buff for more magicka as per the mages guild passive.

    Honestly, yeah clench might be an overpriced skill, and dpencil could very well be right that frags is better - but personally I found myself unable to get the hang of the frags proc. Having the best gear/skills on your bar only does so much, then it's up to the operator. The power of the machine doesn't matter if the person can't drive it properly :)

    [EDIT again...] Keep in mind I do have the current cap of CP. So that will also matter some. If you list where your CP is, someone with more actual knowledge may be able to help guide you where it should be at your current CP level
    Edited by MissBizz on September 28, 2017 5:08PM
    Lone Wolf HelpFor the solo players who know, sometimes you just need a hand.PC | NA | AD-DC-EP | Discord
    Options
  • Octopuss
    Octopuss
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Spider Cultist is not useful because it only buffs Destruction Staff abilities. This means it will only buff: Force Pulse/Crushing Shock, Blockade of Elements, Destructive Clench, and your LA/HA. It WILL NOT buff any other skill.

    You need to give up another 5 piece bonus as a sorc because you have a max of 11 equipment slots: 7 armor, 3 jewelry, 1 weapon. This means that having two 5 piece sets results in sacrificing your monster set. Now, in some cases, you can combine two 5 piece sets with a 1 piece monster helm and see great results (e.g. Necro + Juli + Iceheart for pet builds). However, people who do this generally have a good grasp of the game mechanics and their rotations such that the loss of the 2 piece monster helm effect results in a minimal drop in DPS.

    Finally, your rotation should NOT be semi-random. Your rotation makes or breaks your DPS. There are people who have BiS gear who can't pull more than 10k DPS because their rotation is "semi-random".
    That's a lot of skills being buffed to say "only". I don't understand your argument one bit.

    What's everyone's obsession with monster sets? I couldn't find a single one that would interest me, and I'll much rather have a significant boost to spell damage and crit chance from having another full set bonus.

    P.S. ACRONYMS!! Is it so difficult to understand? I have NO IDEA what are you talking about. BiS, LA HA. WTF is that? (edit: +VMA)
    Edited by Octopuss on September 28, 2017 4:58PM
    Options
  • MissBizz
    MissBizz
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    BiS = Best in Slot
    LA = Light Attack
    HA = Heavy Attack
    VMA = Veterean Maelstrom Arena

    Character copies happen on Monday on the PTS for EU. I suggest going on then, crafting yourself some julianos, or grabbing the gear from a template to try builds others listed such as Nos' build. See what you do best with!
    Lone Wolf HelpFor the solo players who know, sometimes you just need a hand.PC | NA | AD-DC-EP | Discord
    Options
  • Octopuss
    Octopuss
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Thanks. Best in slot means....?
    Options
  • T3hasiangod
    T3hasiangod
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Octopuss wrote: »
    Spider Cultist is not useful because it only buffs Destruction Staff abilities. This means it will only buff: Force Pulse/Crushing Shock, Blockade of Elements, Destructive Clench, and your LA/HA. It WILL NOT buff any other skill.

    You need to give up another 5 piece bonus as a sorc because you have a max of 11 equipment slots: 7 armor, 3 jewelry, 1 weapon. This means that having two 5 piece sets results in sacrificing your monster set. Now, in some cases, you can combine two 5 piece sets with a 1 piece monster helm and see great results (e.g. Necro + Juli + Iceheart for pet builds). However, people who do this generally have a good grasp of the game mechanics and their rotations such that the loss of the 2 piece monster helm effect results in a minimal drop in DPS.

    Finally, your rotation should NOT be semi-random. Your rotation makes or breaks your DPS. There are people who have BiS gear who can't pull more than 10k DPS because their rotation is "semi-random".
    That's a lot of skills being buffed to say "only". I don't understand your argument one bit.

    What's everyone's obsession with monster sets? I couldn't find a single one that would interest me, and I'll much rather have a significant boost to spell damage and crit chance from having another full set bonus.

    P.S. ACRONYMS!! Is it so difficult to understand? I have NO IDEA what are you talking about. BiS, LA HA. WTF is that? (edit: +VMA)

    If you look at your Combat Metrics report, you'll find the percentage of your DPS that comes from specific skills. Generally speaking, you need to add up these percentages, convert to a decimal, and multiply by the damage you gain from the set that affects them to see how much effective damage you are gaining from using that specific set.

    So, for example, if 33 percent of your DPS comes from skills that are buffed by Spider Cultist, then we do .33 * 450 = 150 effective spell damage increase.

    Typically, you would then compare this to Julianos, since that provides a flat increase to Spell Damage. Legendary Julianos provides 299 Spell Damage. For Spider Cultist to beat Julianos, you would need 299/450 * 100 = 66.44 percent of your DPS to come from skills that are buffed by Spider Cultist. That is really hard (I'd even say impossible) to get, even with the best light weaving you can muster with a vMA staff.

    Monster sets are powerful because you can get a high amount of DPS from the 2-piece bonus. Greater than what can be afforded by a second 5 piece set, even with the added two extra bonuses from the 2 to 4 piece bonus. Typically speaking, a monster helm set will out-DPS a second 5-piece sets. Since Horns of the Reach, the gap has narrowed to the point where the difference is marginal, but you'd need to be pretty good to narrow that gap.
    PC/NA - Mayflower, Hellfire Dominion

    Dro-m'Athra Destroyer - Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor - Voice of Reason - Gryphon Heart - The Unchained - Extinguisher of Flames

    Tank - Healer - DPS (all classes, all specs)

    Youtube - Twitch
    Options
  • Horowonnoe
    Horowonnoe
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Octopuss wrote: »
    "1. Dont use that spider cultist or whatever set you are using."
    Sorry this is not helpful at all.

    The thing about enchants is that I repeatedly read that the +magic damage glyph results in more damage than +shock/flame/whatever.

    I keep reading "use 5x this, 2x this, 2x that", but why? Why should I give up another 5 pieces bonus?

    My rotation is something semi-random. I basically drop Haunting curse and Shock clench, followed by Liquid lighting and Blockade of storms, and spam Force pulse (and heavy attacks when I run out of magicka) until it's time ro refresh all the skills with a duration. Oh and obviously i try to keep Surge up all the time.


    P.S. I don't understand any of the acronyms. I've been playing the game for less than two months.

    Oh boy.

    Ok. Really do read that build i linked. It explaints
    Octopuss wrote: »
    Thanks. Best in slot means....?

    Best in slot means -
    Best thing you could wear for that particular build/purpose.
    PC / NA
    Templar Healer "False Eye"
    Sorc Healer "Potema the Wolf Queen"
    Warden Healer "Heavy Attacks Online"
    Magicka Nightblade DPS "Nephaleth Telvanni"
    Dragonknight Tank "Nico's Facsimile"

    Builds & Guides:
    Horow's Templar Healer Guide for Trials (Murkmire updated)
    How to get Felms to jump correctly in vAS HM?
    Horow's vMA Magicka Sorc Build for beginners and lazy farmers
    Horow's Magicka Sorc Triple Pet Heavy Attack Build - Summerset Isles Ready
    More builds at anthem-guild.com/pve/.

    Notable Achievements:
    - World's first 18 Axes vAA clear
    - World's first 20+ enrage stack Llothis in vAS HM and World record cone damage
    Options
  • Horowonnoe
    Horowonnoe
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Octopuss wrote: »
    Spider Cultist is not useful because it only buffs Destruction Staff abilities. This means it will only buff: Force Pulse/Crushing Shock, Blockade of Elements, Destructive Clench, and your LA/HA. It WILL NOT buff any other skill.

    You need to give up another 5 piece bonus as a sorc because you have a max of 11 equipment slots: 7 armor, 3 jewelry, 1 weapon. This means that having two 5 piece sets results in sacrificing your monster set. Now, in some cases, you can combine two 5 piece sets with a 1 piece monster helm and see great results (e.g. Necro + Juli + Iceheart for pet builds). However, people who do this generally have a good grasp of the game mechanics and their rotations such that the loss of the 2 piece monster helm effect results in a minimal drop in DPS.

    Finally, your rotation should NOT be semi-random. Your rotation makes or breaks your DPS. There are people who have BiS gear who can't pull more than 10k DPS because their rotation is "semi-random".
    That's a lot of skills being buffed to say "only". I don't understand your argument one bit.

    What's everyone's obsession with monster sets? I couldn't find a single one that would interest me, and I'll much rather have a significant boost to spell damage and crit chance from having another full set bonus.

    P.S. ACRONYMS!! Is it so difficult to understand? I have NO IDEA what are you talking about. BiS, LA HA. WTF is that? (edit: +VMA)

    Only - because there are other sets that are better. If you have a set that buffs 4 of your skills vs a set that buffs ALL of your skills, why not choose the better one?
    Edited by Horowonnoe on September 28, 2017 5:18PM
    PC / NA
    Templar Healer "False Eye"
    Sorc Healer "Potema the Wolf Queen"
    Warden Healer "Heavy Attacks Online"
    Magicka Nightblade DPS "Nephaleth Telvanni"
    Dragonknight Tank "Nico's Facsimile"

    Builds & Guides:
    Horow's Templar Healer Guide for Trials (Murkmire updated)
    How to get Felms to jump correctly in vAS HM?
    Horow's vMA Magicka Sorc Build for beginners and lazy farmers
    Horow's Magicka Sorc Triple Pet Heavy Attack Build - Summerset Isles Ready
    More builds at anthem-guild.com/pve/.

    Notable Achievements:
    - World's first 18 Axes vAA clear
    - World's first 20+ enrage stack Llothis in vAS HM and World record cone damage
    Options
  • dpencil1
    dpencil1
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    @MissBizz
    Overall, I think your approach is solid. I would not advise you doing any heavy attacks when the dummy is at 20%, though. You need to have enough magicka to do full Wrath spam between dot applications, without any downtime. I do one heavy attack in each rotation until I get to 20%. I usually have enough in my tank (using potions) to spam to victory at that point. The execute phase is your best opportunity to get a huge dps spike, and every second of it is precious.

    As Vaoh mentioned earlier, you mainly just need to.make sure the total time of your rotation equals 8 seconds. 2 seconds for Liquid and Blockade, 1 for Curse/Clench, 2 for a heavy attack somewhere in there. That leaves 3 seconds to Force Pulse (2 every other rotation if you also need to apply Ele Drain yourself).

    @Octopuss
    Ilambris, Maw of the Infernal, Grothdarr, and Nerieneth are all good monster set choices, Ilambris being the best overall for non-Pet Sorcs on stationary targets. I've tested lots of build combinations including the difference between 2 5-piece sets vs 1 5-piece, 2 Monster and 3/4 of another set (preferably one that comes fron a Trial). None of the 2 5-piece combinations beat the 1 5 piece setup, though they can be very close.
    Options
  • MissBizz
    MissBizz
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    @dpencil1 thank you, yes generally I try to ensure I don't need to heavy attack then.. as I realize execute damage is mighty. Though as I'm still learning, I sometimes just haven't been doing it well enough to get by without it. :)
    Lone Wolf HelpFor the solo players who know, sometimes you just need a hand.PC | NA | AD-DC-EP | Discord
    Options
  • SirAndy
    SirAndy
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    spell damage on your jewelry (golden)
    Just want to throw in here that the difference between purple jewelry (easy to get for a newbie) and golden jewelry (hard to get for a newbie) is minuscule.

    Judging from the OP's post, i don't think he needs to chase after golden jewelry for quite some time and will do just fine without it for now.
    shades.gif
    Options
  • Oreyn_Bearclaw
    Oreyn_Bearclaw
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    For people telling you to start chasing this or that set, my advice (long time magic sorc) is ignore them all. If you are only pulling 6k DPS, all the gear in the world is not going to change that. You have a fundamental problem with your rotation. Now at some point, you certainly might want to chase this or that set, but you can easily hit 25-30k trial DPS in non-optimal purple gear, assuming your rotation is on point.

    Some pieces of advice for gear. Necro is your best DPS set as a pet sorc. If not running a pet, necro is worthless (you should absolutely run a pet). As to what to mix it with, you have plenty of options. Willpower is great starting jewelry, but pairing with another 5 piece magic set is perfectly acceptable out of the gate. At some point you will want to get gold trial jewelry and a monster set like ilambris, but as that stuff generally comes from harder content, lets not put the cart before the horse.

    Make sure your gear is purple, and if possible your weapons are gold. You want magic enchants on armor and spell damage enchants on jewelry (one regen enchant is okay, especially if you have lower CP). Armor traits should preferably be divines, and I am going to suggest the lover mundus stone unless you are in a really good raid (which you arent if you arent clearing AA). Your front bar should be an infused weapon enchant with a shock glyph, back bar doesnt matter as much. Infused, precise, nirn will all work. If you dont have undaunted passives (guessing you dont) go with 7 light armor). Once you get them, go with 5 light/1 medium/ 1heavy.

    As to the Rotation:

    This is the part you are definitely screwing up. Nothing personal, it is what it is. Magic sorcs have 2 basic rotations with a pet build. The first is a heavy attack build, the second is a force pulse build. The heavy attack build is ceratinly easier to master, but it doesnt pull quite as much damage.

    DOTS: Sorcs have 4 damage over time abilities that need to be cast in the proper order. Order is highly important. They should always be cast in this order: Liquid Lighing, Elemental Blockade (destro skill), Volatile Familiar, Daedric Prey. This is the bread and butter of your rotation. Practice casting these in order, preferably with a light attack in between each. Count it out: LL,EB,VF,DP, - 1,2,3,4. Anybody that has read my sorc rantings knows I love to use a music analogy. Its simply an 8 count your dots make up the first 4.

    HA vs. Force Pulse: This is your second 4 count. This comes in two forms. You can either cast 4 force pulses/frags, or you can do 2 heavy attacks. A heavy attack basically takes twice as much time to cast as a skill, so 2 heavy attacks equals a 4 count. The other option is your force pulse/ crystal frags weave. With this you just want to count 4. Crystal frags is a neat skill but you want to use it properly. You only use when it "procs" for an insta cast. Never do a full cast where you are channeling it. So sometimes you might do 4 Force pulses in a row because it doesnt proc, or sometimes it might proc twice and it goes FP>Frags>FP>Frags. Or it might only proc once FP>FP>Frags>FP. This is the only tricky thing about sorc, you just need to pay attention to when frags is ready for an instant cast. Some addons will give you different visual or audio signals to help with this.

    The thing to remember is that you have to stick to the beat. 4 DOTS, 4 FP/Frags, and repeat. People get in trouble because they put their DOTS down, but spend way to much time spamming force pulse/frags or heavy attacks. Remeber you only get 4 FP/Frags or 2 Heavy attacks and then you must start your DOTs again.

    Heavy Attack Rotation looks like this (put a light attack in front of every skill if possible): LL, EB, VF, DP, HA, HA, Repeat. You will have to barswap as well, but that depends on how you setup your bars. A very simple setup to break 20k with your eyes closed looks like this:

    Front Bar (light staff): Mages Wrath, Inner Light, Volatile Familiar, Bound Aegis, Hardened Ward, Elemental Rage.
    Back Bar (light or fire staff): Liquid Lighting, Elemental Blockade, Volatile Familiar, Daedric Prey, Bound Aegies, Meteor

    Your rotation: LL, EB, VF, DP, Bar Swap, HA, HA, Bar Swap, Repeat. Cast ultimates and spell power potions on cooldown, when you get to 20%, stop the heavy attacks and replace them with 4 mages wraths. If you dont want to run potions, then replace mages wrath with power surge and keep that up, then continue your heavy attacks during execute like normal. You need to get your major sorcery buff from somewhere.

    Until you can pull 20-25k with this, dont mess with anything else. Once you can get that down, then you can look to branch out a bit and go to a more complicated rotation. Practice your light weaving, as you should put LAs before every skill.

    My personal trial rotation looks like this (not claiming original work as its what most of us do).

    Front Bar (light staff): Force Pulse, Crystal Frags, Inner Light, Volatile Familiar, Daedric Prey, Meteor.
    Back Bar (light or fire staff): Liquid Lighting, Elemental Blockade, Volatile Familiar, Hardened Ward, Mages Wrath, Elemental Rage

    The rotation goes like this (LA =light attack, HA=Heavy Attack, BS = BS)

    LA>Liquid Lighting, LA>Elemental Blockade,BS, LA>Volatile Familiar, LA>Daedric Prey, LA>FP/Fragsx4, BS, Repeat

    With this rotation you will run out of magic. The HA rotation will sustain forever. Therefore, in order to sustain, you need to replace your 4FP/Frags with 2HAs about every other rotation or perhaps 1 out of 3 if you have good support. When you get to execute, you simply replace the FP/Fragsx4 with mages Wrath times 4. Again if you dont want to run potions, run power surge in place of your execute and dont alter your rotation at 20%.

    You will notice I always make room for a shield. In group content, its mandatory. For target dummies, you can put ele drain there for more damage, but tank will normally give you that buff. You will also notice that i swapped the ultimates on those setups. Meteor is better on front bar for more magic, but in the pure HA build, we put elemental rage there because we need a destro staff skill for the passives.

    My advice is to start with the HA build until you are very comfortable, then branch out to the other build. Gear will come with time. At 6kDPS, however, your rotation is the issue. You can break 20k naked with a proper rotation.
    Options
  • Octopuss
    Octopuss
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    If you look at your Combat Metrics report, you'll find the percentage of your DPS that comes from specific skills. Generally speaking, you need to add up these percentages, convert to a decimal, and multiply by the damage you gain from the set that affects them to see how much effective damage you are gaining from using that specific set.

    So, for example, if 33 percent of your DPS comes from skills that are buffed by Spider Cultist, then we do .33 * 450 = 150 effective spell damage increase.

    Typically, you would then compare this to Julianos, since that provides a flat increase to Spell Damage. Legendary Julianos provides 299 Spell Damage. For Spider Cultist to beat Julianos, you would need 299/450 * 100 = 66.44 percent of your DPS to come from skills that are buffed by Spider Cultist. That is really hard (I'd even say impossible) to get, even with the best light weaving you can muster with a vMA staff.

    Monster sets are powerful because you can get a high amount of DPS from the 2-piece bonus. Greater than what can be afforded by a second 5 piece set, even with the added two extra bonuses from the 2 to 4 piece bonus. Typically speaking, a monster helm set will out-DPS a second 5-piece sets. Since Horns of the Reach, the gap has narrowed to the point where the difference is marginal, but you'd need to be pretty good to narrow that gap.

    That's the sort of explanation I was looking for. Insightful. Thanks.
    Guess I'll go back to Netch's touch and Mother's sorrow combination for now. At least I have 66% crit in that setup.


    P.S. Silly complaint when we're talking about performance, but I hope ZOS gets that cosmetic armour feature out sooner than later.
    Options
  • Betsararie
    Betsararie
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    I would almost just say give up on it if the most you can achieve is 6k dps.

    That isn't meant to be offensive. But it's just so absurdly low, there's an argument that you should just quit trying to dps, at least with that toon.

    I would suggest to you, make a new toon or just switch roles.
    Options
  • Octopuss
    Octopuss
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yea, sure, let me just delete the character I spent 10 real life days playing just because random bunch of internet pixels said I sucked (make no mistake, I don't disagree with that part).
    Options
  • CGPsaint
    CGPsaint
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    5-piece Julianos + 5-piece Netch's + 1-piece Slimecraw or Iceheart (All Divines - 5-1-1 for Undaunted)

    You can use just Blockade, Liquid Lightning, Shooting Star, and Heavy Attack and still manage to hit 20K DPS.
    "Some enjoy bringing grief to others. They remind M'aiq of mudcrabs—horrible creatures, with no redeeming qualities."
    Options
  • Oreyn_Bearclaw
    Oreyn_Bearclaw
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Blanco wrote: »
    I would almost just say give up on it if the most you can achieve is 6k dps.

    That isn't meant to be offensive. But it's just so absurdly low, there's an argument that you should just quit trying to dps, at least with that toon.

    I would suggest to you, make a new toon or just switch roles.

    That's just silly advice. If he was playing one of the tougher classes like a stamblade and pulling 6k, I might suggest try something a little easier, but this is simply a case of needing pointed in the right direction towards a proper rotation and build, and of course, OP is going to need to spend some hours on a target dummy. If on PC/NA, you are always welcome to use mine. I have all the mundus stones and 6 dummies, so its usually a party Bearclaw Manor. The more the merrier. :smile:

    Tanks and Healers frankly both take as much or more skill to do effectively, and a sorc HA build is about as easy as it gets for DPS right now. You are basically telling him to uninstall the game. On behalf of the rest of the community, we hope you stick around. Nobody starts pulling 40k out of the gate, despite what they say on the forums.
    Edited by Oreyn_Bearclaw on September 28, 2017 7:23PM
    Options
Sign In or Register to comment.