PTS Update 16 - Feedback Thread for Wardens

Adenoma · September 2017

Honestly, trees feel strong, but they don't feel overpowered by any means. You can build to be tanky in them, but they're not broken. I die inside of trees all the time and once we're getting to the point where you're using them as a spammable heal you're not in position to turn around and nuke anyways.

I said this in another thread, but so many folks are bummed with the bear ult. Pet mechanics stink. From a PvP aspect it'd be really cool to have this as a single target burst ult so we aren't pidgeonholed into running dawnbreaker on a stamina build if we want huge burst outside of the 2h ult.

Machete · September 2017

Wardens need a few things. In my opinion (And hopefully you guys @ZOS actually do give this class some love and read it over):

Animal Companion:

Dive-This ability and morphs should be instant cast. The delay is nice with destro staff, but it doesn't give the ability to do damage like other classes can with other weapons (All other classes can use DW effectively, as well as SnB. The delay kills damage potential.) Instant cast and dodgeable. For stam, it would be nice to have for like bow builds or an alternative for melee.
Scorch- Love it, the ability is great. I think it would be nicer if it gave Major Breech to Deep Fissure, and let the Subterranean Assault morph give Major Fracture. The stun is meh for Deep Fissure, give us Breech and we'll be cooking with gas when it comes to damage.
Swarm- Stam morph maybe? Not really a big deal if not, the ability is already pretty strong.
Betty Netch- Not bad. Keep it how it is.
Falcon Swiftness- Couple people said this, and I agree. This needs to be 20 seconds. It cost too much, and keeping the uptime is ridiculous. The rotation for Warden is already clunky. I also heard from a friend that this skill could be really cool if you treated it kinda like Merciless Resovle. Instead you'd have to be in melee range, do that one flying attack that Selene does to 1 shot people. (Don't know if I care about the proc idea yet though, just do the 20 second thing and I'll be happy.)
Feral Guardian- I like the bear, honestly. Keep it like it is, it rips up mobs in Maelstrom.

Passives:

Bond With Nature- Keep it like it is.
Savage Beast- Keep it like it is.
Flourish- Keep it like it is.
Advanced Species- Keep it like it is.

Green Balance:

Fungal Growth- Both are really good. Honestly, if the below are address this skill needs no looking at.
Healing Seed- This needs to be a HoT. This has needed to be an HoT since the class came out. Too much can happen in 6 seconds to be standing in one place long. Maybe a decent HoT while in it, then the burst heal? Like 1000 health per second, then the burst heal for like 10k+ (My tool tip anyway). Keeps it useful still, since your group can always activate the synergy for the big HoT. Warden needs to be a sustain healer, and leave burst healing to Templars.
Living Vines- I have a love/hate with this skill. If it's on, I can tell. But when it's not on, I feel it. But this skill hasn't every saved me. Not like Igneous Shield, Streak, Cloak, or Purge has. Or even skills like Conjure Ward, Reflective Scales, Shades, or Repentance. This is due to the Warden's overall lack of self healing in PVP mainly (PVE they're fine.) Maybe instead of letting this skill work while stacking shields, you make it only to the non-shielded attacks. But allow it to reduce incoming damage, or heal for more. Make it self casted, since a lot of the things Wardens have is group oriented. Let them have a greedy skill.
Lotus Blossom- Ok, now this is gonna sound a bit OP, but healing on abilities instead of light and heavy attacks. In PVE, this skill is great. (Not sure on trials, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.)
Nature's Grasp- I think this is a great skill for small scale. And even large scale. Keep it how it is.
Secluded Grove- NERF NERF NERF NERF NERF NERF! God this skill is broken. Make it at least 125-150 ult. This is the only reason people say Wardens are tanky, this skill and this skill alone. (Note I didn't say Ult? Because you get it so quickly that it might as well be a skill.)

Passives:

Accelerated Growth- Maybe change it to 50-60%? Maybe?
Nature's Gift- Keep it like it is.
Emerald Moss- Keep it like it is.
Maturation- Any chance on that bug fix where the health bar in LUI and basic in game health bars mess up?

Winter's Embrace:

Frost Cloak- Keep it like it is.
Impaling Shards- This should have been based off spell damage and max magicka stats to begin with. All morphs of this skill need to scale off magicka. No one likes using health for damage. Besides, using health for damage *STILL* causes it to scale off of spell pen and crit.
Arctic Wind- I want this skill on my bar! I want it to work! Maybe if you ignore absolutely all of my complaining about Green Balance and actually make this skill heal for more, I'd be happy. The Arctic Blast morph needs more damage and just like Impaling Shards, needs to scale off max magicka stats. Like I said, I would love this ability on my bar. If you get anything from this whole list, please fix Arctic Wind.
Crystallized Shield- Get rid of the CC you get when you absorb a projectile. I use it not only for both morphs, but to absorb damage. It's pointless though if I get CCed while it's active.
Frozen Gate- It's good, keep it like it is. Good for trolling.
Sleet Storm- Another love/hate of mine. Giving 8% to Max Mag vs a lot of useful group utility was a hard pick. I play my stam Warden more because it's got a lot more group utility. Like Permafrost and Sub Assault. I'm not sure on this one yet.

Passives:

Glacial Presence- If you actually add frost damage to this class, this will be useful. Otherwise, keep it like it is.
Frozen Armor- The reason I even put this post up. It's weak, maybe 1000 for each ability slotted? Make it so tank characters can be tanky. And defense bars can be defensive. DK gets 3300 spell resist, and Temp gets 3000.
Icy Aura- Love this passive, keep it.
Piercing Cold- Honestly.... keep it. Maybe add physical damage for stam, but keep it otherwise, I like it. Would be more useful if you had damage for cold besides just Winter's Revenge.

Feel free to criticize me, but these are the changes I would love to see happen. Especially Winter's Embrace changes. Ice magic should have never been tank magic, most end game tanks that are magic still use SnB. Winter's Embrace has a lot of potential if you guys manage to make more damage come from this skill line, as Warden already lacks some damage anyway. Mainly we lack damage because of delays. Most good players in a 1v1 or 1v2 can survive if they have a second to respond. And since mag Wardens have to pile their main burst up in 3 seconds (Scorch, Dive, Force Pulse), it leaves a lot of room open to recover. Mag wardens are all burst and no sustained damage. As for survival, nerf trees. It's so cheap, and it's really cheesy 1v1.

Integral1900 · September 2017

The exploding shalk have to go... compared to what used to be the visual it just feels like such a cheep bodge job

It's an okay healer with so so dps and good burst but it totally lacks sustained dps. Litteraly any other class whether magic or stamina hits harder by twenty percent or more. It might be great in pvp but in pve other than as a healer this thing is a bust

Anhedonie · September 2017

Fetcher Flies still scales off of Master at Arms star in CP. It's a DoT, shouldn't it scale off of Thaumaturge?

zyk · September 2017

Wardens are incredibly OP in PVP because of burst, damage reduction and healing capabilities. I don't see how ZOS can buff wardens from a PVE sustained DPS POV without *completely* breaking them in PVP.

sparafucilsarwb17_ESO · September 2017

zyk wrote: »

Wardens are incredibly OP in PVP because of burst, damage reduction and healing capabilities. I don't see how ZOS can buff wardens from a PVE sustained PVE POV without *completely* breaking them in PVP.

Maybe by means of an added passive that works in pve but gets disabled in pvp.

LadyNalcarya · September 2017

zyk wrote: »

Wardens are incredibly OP in PVP because of burst, damage reduction and healing capabilities. I don't see how ZOS can buff wardens from a PVE sustained DPS POV without *completely* breaking them in PVP.

Thing is, if they make cliffracers dodgeable etc, wardens will be utterly useless in pvp, too, at least magicka ones.
Most of warden animations are painfully slow and everyone would just dodge them, they're as telegraphed as hard-casted frags.
Imo they just need to make all abilities instant (and dodgeable) and buff dot/aoe damage. They could also increase the cost of forest ultimate, it is too poweful for its cost.

SodanTok · September 2017

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

zyk wrote: »

Wardens are incredibly OP in PVP because of burst, damage reduction and healing capabilities. I don't see how ZOS can buff wardens from a PVE sustained DPS POV without *completely* breaking them in PVP.

Thing is, if they make cliffracers dodgeable etc, wardens will be utterly useless in pvp, too, at least magicka ones.
Most of warden animations are painfully slow and everyone would just dodge them, they're as telegraphed as hard-casted frags.
Imo they just need to make all abilities instant (and dodgeable) and buff dot/aoe damage. They could also increase the cost of forest ultimate, it is too poweful for its cost.

Thats not happening, so people should drop this issue and look for different ones (like if you could just press block when bird is about to hit you and not disable your regen tick). Warden was made to look pretty. It is downfall of the class that wont be addressed, at least not till another class arrives that they will need to sell.

But for real, everything warden do has some long animation that is forced on you (because it is before attack, not backswing). Most notably if you use dodge roll (or use block reactionary), you will cancel so many things because you did not wait. Shimmer shield needs to animate, netch needs to animate, the mushrooms needs to animate, cliff racer needs to animate. The amount of healing ulti I literally saw starting (blue glow in the area) and my dodge or some CC stopped it.

It is like they decided to fight animation canceling just on one class. Skills like endless hail, caltrops or dawnbreaker all have long animations, but you literally can swap/block/dodge instantly and they will still perform.

Weps · September 2017

SodanTok wrote: »

But for real, everything warden do has some long animation that is forced on you (because it is before attack, not backswing). Most notably if you use dodge roll (or use block reactionary), you will cancel so many things because you did not wait. Shimmer shield needs to animate, netch needs to animate, the mushrooms needs to animate, cliff racer needs to animate. The amount of healing ulti I literally saw starting (blue glow in the area) and my dodge or some CC stopped it.

It is like they decided to fight animation canceling just on one class. Skills like endless hail, caltrops or dawnbreaker all have long animations, but you literally can swap/block/dodge instantly and they will still perform.

Not entirely true, I can animation cancel shimmer, netch, mushrooms and even cliff racer in a DPS rotation.
The only totally uncancellable skill is the Deep Fissure / Subterrain Assault.

SodanTok · September 2017

Weps wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

But for real, everything warden do has some long animation that is forced on you (because it is before attack, not backswing). Most notably if you use dodge roll (or use block reactionary), you will cancel so many things because you did not wait. Shimmer shield needs to animate, netch needs to animate, the mushrooms needs to animate, cliff racer needs to animate. The amount of healing ulti I literally saw starting (blue glow in the area) and my dodge or some CC stopped it.

It is like they decided to fight animation canceling just on one class. Skills like endless hail, caltrops or dawnbreaker all have long animations, but you literally can swap/block/dodge instantly and they will still perform.

Not entirely true, I can animation cancel shimmer, netch, mushrooms and even cliff racer in a DPS rotation.
The only totally uncancellable skill is the Deep Fissure / Subterrain Assault.

I never said you cant. I said they have long pre animations (those that need to play). You can always cancel backswing animation (which they have long too).
Netch is the worst. Only reason I use buff tracker in PVP is to know if I casted netch.

STEVIL · September 2017

Thraben wrote: »

Unrelated to this: You failed to address the key point of the class´s lack of popularity:

the BEAR.

1) Give the bear a grace period before he despawns when only slotted on one bar.
2) Give the bear the Clannfear´s taunting power
3) Create some kind of interaction between pet and owner, like: If the bear critically hits the target, your next heavy attack will do 20% more damage.

been asking for "overtime" for a while now.

make it a two-tick passive with 3s then 6s after second point spent.Same for IMO all pets and maybe all toggles that need double slotting.

My off-hand vision for increasing the warden sustain DPS is not tied to bear as some do but to green balance.

make a "imbalance" morph for most/all of those abilities where you have an offensive effect, not a healing effect, that cause damage plus debuffs. Choose between a healing morph or a damage-debuff likely DoTs depending on your role.

i think the key is to enable *either* the support/hybrid role *or* the higher sustain DPS and not both. if you boost the offensive traits and leave the full healing tree, you get too much gain and option for a single build, IMO.

But sometimes my perceptions are... odd.

SanTii.92 · September 2017

zyk wrote: »

Wardens are incredibly OP in PVP because of burst, damage reduction and healing capabilities. I don't see how ZOS can buff wardens from a PVE sustained DPS POV without *completely* breaking them in PVP.

Easy, they just got to nerf Secluded Grove and Shimmering Shield at the same time.

WuffyCerulei · September 2017

laced wrote: »

Dojohoda wrote: »

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

Dive and morphs still need to made dodgeable for pvp's sake.

Yes, please make the birds dodgeable

Until Miats is gone, I cant condone making it dodgeable, it would smash yet another ranged build because of spoon feeding.

Making it dodgeable would encourage people to not just spam birds over and over again.

SodanTok · September 2017

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

laced wrote: »

Dojohoda wrote: »

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

Dive and morphs still need to made dodgeable for pvp's sake.

Yes, please make the birds dodgeable

Until Miats is gone, I cant condone making it dodgeable, it would smash yet another ranged build because of spoon feeding.

Making it dodgeable would encourage people to not just spam birds over and over again.

Try play it. There are so many downtimes on warden that you if you dont have to heal or rebuff you can only watch or spam some birds till you have something else to do.

Unless you meant people standing in zerg spamming and spamming and spamming. They will continue to do so because it is their only skill. Why do you think people spam snipe.

Jade1986 · September 2017

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

laced wrote: »

Dojohoda wrote: »

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

Dive and morphs still need to made dodgeable for pvp's sake.

Yes, please make the birds dodgeable

Until Miats is gone, I cant condone making it dodgeable, it would smash yet another ranged build because of spoon feeding.

Making it dodgeable would encourage people to not just spam birds over and over again.

A lot of people are spamming birds right now because it is one of the only hard hitting ranged attacks that doesnt give you a headsup because of miats spoon feed addon. So no, it should not be dodgeable until that add on is history.

MLGProPlayer · September 2017

Do you guys play test this ***? Have you see how dismally low magicka warden DPS is? They currently parse around 20% below NB/DK/templar on LIVE. That gap is only going to increase with Asylum weapons further buffing magicka sorcs (they won't be nearly as useful, if at all, for warden).

Here is what needs to happen:

- Bear ultimate needs to be SINGLE BAR. This ability is not nearly strong enough to warrant a double bar requirement. You can't unslot it though as it is responsible for about 3-4k of the warden's DPS.
- DoTs need a huge buff (Winter's Revenge is a good candidate as it's useless in PvP, but Fetcher Infection should also be looked at).
- DPS abilities need to have some kind of utility attached to them (warden will never compete with sorc in terms of raw DPS numbers, so they need to provide buffs/debuffs; this is what keeps templar/DK/NB viable with lower DPS). Right now, warden DPS abilities only provide DPS.

And I'm not even sure that would be enough. That's how terrible they are.

I keep posting this but look at how many people are using this class in endgame (this is how many times warden appears on PC/NA leader boards):

HRC: 0
AA: 0
SO: 1
MoL: 0
HoF: 1
vDSA: 3

If you don't see a problem with that, I am deeply concerned about your ability to balance this game.

SanTii.92 · September 2017

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Do you guys play test this ***? Have you see how dismally low magicka warden DPS is? They currently parse around 20% below NB/DK/templar on LIVE. That gap is only going to increase with Asylum weapons further buffing magicka sorcs (they won't be nearly as useful, if at all, for warden).

Here is what needs to happen:

- Bear ultimate needs to be SINGLE BAR. This ability is not nearly strong enough to warrant a double bar requirement. You can't unslot it though as it is responsible for about 3-4k of the warden's DPS.
- DoTs need a huge buff (Winter's Revenge is a good candidate as it's useless in PvP, but Fetcher Infection should also be looked at).
- DPS abilities need to have some kind of utility attached to them (warden will never compete with sorc in terms of raw DPS numbers, so they need to provide buffs/debuffs; this is what keeps templar/DK/NB viable with lower DPS). Right now, warden DPS abilities only provide DPS.

And I'm not even sure that would be enough. That's how terrible they are.

I keep posting this but look at how many people are using this class in endgame (this how many times warden appears on PC/NA leader boards):
HRC: 0
AA: 0
SO: 1
MoL: 0
HoF: 1
vDSA: 3

If you don't see a problem with that, I am deeply concerned about your ability to balance this game.

I just don't understand how they seem to be ok with current performance. Again, any comment from Zos acknowledging the issue, that they are looking into ways to adress it, maybe to tell us which are they future plans. Or if they are fine with it, at least we could just stop wasting our time here.

Waffennacht · September 2017

SanTii.92 wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Do you guys play test this ***? Have you see how dismally low magicka warden DPS is? They currently parse around 20% below NB/DK/templar on LIVE. That gap is only going to increase with Asylum weapons further buffing magicka sorcs (they won't be nearly as useful, if at all, for warden).

Here is what needs to happen:

- Bear ultimate needs to be SINGLE BAR. This ability is not nearly strong enough to warrant a double bar requirement. You can't unslot it though as it is responsible for about 3-4k of the warden's DPS.
- DoTs need a huge buff (Winter's Revenge is a good candidate as it's useless in PvP, but Fetcher Infection should also be looked at).
- DPS abilities need to have some kind of utility attached to them (warden will never compete with sorc in terms of raw DPS numbers, so they need to provide buffs/debuffs; this is what keeps templar/DK/NB viable with lower DPS). Right now, warden DPS abilities only provide DPS.

And I'm not even sure that would be enough. That's how terrible they are.

I keep posting this but look at how many people are using this class in endgame (this how many times warden appears on PC/NA leader boards):
HRC: 0
AA: 0
SO: 1
MoL: 0
HoF: 1
vDSA: 3

If you don't see a problem with that, I am deeply concerned about your ability to balance this game.

I just don't understand how they seem to be ok with current performance. Again, any comment from Zos acknowledging the issue, that they are looking into ways to adress it, maybe to tell us which are they future plans. Or if they are fine with it, at least we could just stop wasting our time here.

I truly believe they are ok with Warden doing so poorly at PvE dps

MLGProPlayer · September 2017

SanTii.92 wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Do you guys play test this ***? Have you see how dismally low magicka warden DPS is? They currently parse around 20% below NB/DK/templar on LIVE. That gap is only going to increase with Asylum weapons further buffing magicka sorcs (they won't be nearly as useful, if at all, for warden).

Here is what needs to happen:

- Bear ultimate needs to be SINGLE BAR. This ability is not nearly strong enough to warrant a double bar requirement. You can't unslot it though as it is responsible for about 3-4k of the warden's DPS.
- DoTs need a huge buff (Winter's Revenge is a good candidate as it's useless in PvP, but Fetcher Infection should also be looked at).
- DPS abilities need to have some kind of utility attached to them (warden will never compete with sorc in terms of raw DPS numbers, so they need to provide buffs/debuffs; this is what keeps templar/DK/NB viable with lower DPS). Right now, warden DPS abilities only provide DPS.

And I'm not even sure that would be enough. That's how terrible they are.

I keep posting this but look at how many people are using this class in endgame (this how many times warden appears on PC/NA leader boards):
HRC: 0
AA: 0
SO: 1
MoL: 0
HoF: 1
vDSA: 3

If you don't see a problem with that, I am deeply concerned about your ability to balance this game.

I just don't understand how they seem to be ok with current performance. Again, any comment from Zos acknowledging the issue, that they are looking into ways to adress it, maybe to tell us which are they future plans. Or if they are fine with it, at least we could just stop wasting our time here.

This. People are investing time (and maybe even money, i.e. riding lessons) into bringing this class up to endgame level.

ZOS could at least do us the courtesy of letting us know what their plans are for the class. Are they fine with this being a PvP-only class? If so, those of us who don't PvP can focus on other things in the game. Some people could use the character slot on a more useful class.

We paid $40 for this class. How about some communication from ZOS?

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

MLGProPlayer · September 2017

Waffennacht wrote: »

SanTii.92 wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Do you guys play test this ***? Have you see how dismally low magicka warden DPS is? They currently parse around 20% below NB/DK/templar on LIVE. That gap is only going to increase with Asylum weapons further buffing magicka sorcs (they won't be nearly as useful, if at all, for warden).

Here is what needs to happen:

- Bear ultimate needs to be SINGLE BAR. This ability is not nearly strong enough to warrant a double bar requirement. You can't unslot it though as it is responsible for about 3-4k of the warden's DPS.
- DoTs need a huge buff (Winter's Revenge is a good candidate as it's useless in PvP, but Fetcher Infection should also be looked at).
- DPS abilities need to have some kind of utility attached to them (warden will never compete with sorc in terms of raw DPS numbers, so they need to provide buffs/debuffs; this is what keeps templar/DK/NB viable with lower DPS). Right now, warden DPS abilities only provide DPS.

And I'm not even sure that would be enough. That's how terrible they are.

I keep posting this but look at how many people are using this class in endgame (this how many times warden appears on PC/NA leader boards):
HRC: 0
AA: 0
SO: 1
MoL: 0
HoF: 1
vDSA: 3

If you don't see a problem with that, I am deeply concerned about your ability to balance this game.

I just don't understand how they seem to be ok with current performance. Again, any comment from Zos acknowledging the issue, that they are looking into ways to adress it, maybe to tell us which are they future plans. Or if they are fine with it, at least we could just stop wasting our time here.

I truly believe they are ok with Warden doing so poorly at PvE dps

So far, it seems like it. No balance changes. No communication.

It's really disheartening that ZOS cares this little about a product that people paid real money for.

Adenoma · September 2017

Literally all of warden burst is telegraphed and on a timer. You can pay attention to that timing just like they do. Then play smart and don't dodge roll, just block. Play close to the warden and root them - birds don't kill you, but beetles do so make yourself a difficult target.

If you're dying to bird spam then either you had poor target selection and got in over your head or you're going full potato.

If you're getting a warden to go into tree spam then you've effectively destroyed most of their burst, especially stamwardens. That heal let's people play defensively and conservatively so you can move into skill based fights of resource management. I'm ADHD as heck but I don't get the forum's fixation on being able to kill like this is a COD franchise.

Jade1986 · September 2017

Adenoma wrote: »

Literally all of warden burst is telegraphed and on a timer. You can pay attention to that timing just like they do. Then play smart and don't dodge roll, just block. Play close to the warden and root them - birds don't kill you, but beetles do so make yourself a difficult target.

If you're dying to bird spam then either you had poor target selection and got in over your head or you're going full potato.

If you're getting a warden to go into tree spam then you've effectively destroyed most of their burst, especially stamwardens. That heal let's people play defensively and conservatively so you can move into skill based fights of resource management. I'm ADHD as heck but I don't get the forum's fixation on being able to kill like this is a COD franchise.

Always have said super low TTK is bad game design.

lucky_Sage · September 2017

the problem is they do a little of everything and nothing they excel at why not remove the frost tank and turn that into a range mag dd like people wanted
and make animal companions mostly stamina like people assumed the classed would play out. then they can have good dmg and good heals
the class could be very unique if took the approach by turning winter embrace into a range frost dd and make animal companions stam mainly like maybe have one bird morph into a melee just change the animal

frost mage could kinda be close to duel wield with a range I shard flurry with a short channel that build up stacks of spell pen or like you build up 10 stacks frostbite and you ignore spell resentence for a few seconds. the only with be single target that instally puts 10 stacks on the target

WuffyCerulei · September 2017

laced wrote: »

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

laced wrote: »

Dojohoda wrote: »

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

Dive and morphs still need to made dodgeable for pvp's sake.

Yes, please make the birds dodgeable

Until Miats is gone, I cant condone making it dodgeable, it would smash yet another ranged build because of spoon feeding.

Making it dodgeable would encourage people to not just spam birds over and over again.

A lot of people are spamming birds right now because it is one of the only hard hitting ranged attacks that doesnt give you a headsup because of miats spoon feed addon. So no, it should not be dodgeable until that add on is history.

I don't even use the addon cuz it eats up a lot of processing power on my lil computato. I merely find it obnoxious that I can get a couple dodges out, healing ward, and streak away from most bundled up fights in pvp. However, if a Warden's throwing birds at in the time I dodge roll, I can't counter it with a shield.

Jade1986 · September 2017

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

laced wrote: »

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

laced wrote: »

Dojohoda wrote: »

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

Dive and morphs still need to made dodgeable for pvp's sake.

Yes, please make the birds dodgeable

Until Miats is gone, I cant condone making it dodgeable, it would smash yet another ranged build because of spoon feeding.

Making it dodgeable would encourage people to not just spam birds over and over again.

A lot of people are spamming birds right now because it is one of the only hard hitting ranged attacks that doesnt give you a headsup because of miats spoon feed addon. So no, it should not be dodgeable until that add on is history.

I don't even use the addon cuz it eats up a lot of processing power on my lil computato. I merely find it obnoxious that I can get a couple dodges out, healing ward, and streak away from most bundled up fights in pvp. However, if a Warden's throwing birds at in the time I dodge roll, I can't counter it with a shield.

Then people like you and me need to band together and force ZoS to get that addon and any like it banned, because in my personal opinion, it is a far greater problem than cliffracers. It destroys several playstyles and builds / classes, cliff racers are just a minor annoyance.

Jade1986 · September 2017

lucky_Sage wrote: »

the problem is they do a little of everything and nothing they excel at why not remove the frost tank and turn that into a range mag dd like people wanted
and make animal companions mostly stamina like people assumed the classed would play out. then they can have good dmg and good heals
the class could be very unique if took the approach by turning winter embrace into a range frost dd and make animal companions stam mainly like maybe have one bird morph into a melee just change the animal

frost mage could kinda be close to duel wield with a range I shard flurry with a short channel that build up stacks of spell pen or like you build up 10 stacks frostbite and you ignore spell resentence for a few seconds. the only with be single target that instally puts 10 stacks on the target

They cant do that now , that would crap all over all the warden tanks now and mag wardens.

Zer0oo · September 2017

Atleast it seems they really fixed the crit rating of all ice skills but fetcher infection is still a direct damage instead of a dot damage.

All animations are still extremely slow and you almost want to barswap cancel all skills

Bird of prey is still too expensive for what it does just compare it to grim focus of the nbs which also offers things like extrem high damage(+snare) skill after 5 light attacks, more reg for one of the morphs, 20sec duration and it is cheaper.

As for dps it should not have improved since few patches since there was not a single change that would buff it: on the last spot of all dds (stam dd >> mag dd > mag warden in raid situations)

Also why does lotus blossom not heal on medium(not fully charged heavy attacks) attacks?

Frozen gate is not precise enough(if you only want to chain on specific add) to use it as a tank and it says instant cast it takes a while till it pulls the enemy to you(pulling enemies with chains is way faster).

Having to slot a ultimate to get the extra max magica is also kinda a bummer and restricts your choice of ultimate by alot.

Same problem with the bear at the moment mag dds( max 2-4 range mag dd rest all stam meele) are mostly only in trials for aoe with the destro ulti( and off-balance ) but you can't slot it since you have to slot the bear on both bars.

Also wardens are okish tanks but dks are better, they are okish healers but templers are better and they are really bad as dd compared to other classes.

(Substain is screwed for everyone since morrowind so i don't mention that - any chance undo a few morrowind changes?)

lucky_Sage · September 2017

laced wrote: »

lucky_Sage wrote: »

the problem is they do a little of everything and nothing they excel at why not remove the frost tank and turn that into a range mag dd like people wanted
and make animal companions mostly stamina like people assumed the classed would play out. then they can have good dmg and good heals
the class could be very unique if took the approach by turning winter embrace into a range frost dd and make animal companions stam mainly like maybe have one bird morph into a melee just change the animal

frost mage could kinda be close to duel wield with a range I shard flurry with a short channel that build up stacks of spell pen or like you build up 10 stacks frostbite and you ignore spell resentence for a few seconds. the only with be single target that instally puts 10 stacks on the target

They cant do that now , that would crap all over all the warden tanks now and mag wardens.

they could but I doubt they will. the class doesn't have many who play it if they make it fun pvp wise a warden tank is just a tanky healer. mag wardens a just a cheap knock off off all classes put together

Masel · September 2017

Zer0oo wrote: »

Atleast it seems they really fixed the crit rating of all ice skills but fetcher infection is still a direct damage instead of a dot damage.

All animations are still extremely slow and you almost want to barswap cancel all skills

Bird of prey is still too expensive for what it does just compare it to grim focus of the nbs which also offers things like extrem high damage(+snare) skill after 5 light attacks, more reg for one of the morphs, 20sec duration and it is cheaper.

As for dps it should not have improved since few patches since there was not a single change that would buff it: on the last spot of all dds (stam dd >> mag dd > mag warden in raid situations)

Also why does lotus blossom not heal on medium(not fully charged heavy attacks) attacks?

Frozen gate is not precise enough(if you only want to chain on specific add) to use it as a tank and it says instant cast it takes a while till it pulls the enemy to you(pulling enemies with chains is way faster).

Having to slot a ultimate to get the extra max magica is also kinda a bummer and restricts your choice of ultimate by alot.

Same problem with the bear at the moment mag dds( max 2-4 range mag dd rest all stam meele) are mostly only in trials for aoe with the destro ulti( and off-balance ) but you can't slot it since you have to slot the bear on both bars.

Also wardens are okish tanks but dks are better, they are okish healers but templers are better and they are really bad as dd compared to other classes.

(Substain is screwed for everyone since morrowind so i don't mention that - any chance undo a few morrowind changes?)

I think the sustain ship has sailed zero...

And I don't have high hopes as far as the warden damage is concerned. Stamina warden is okay, you can even slot the bear in a lot of trial scenarios and it won't die.

But magicka, it is so bad that I always stop after a couple of dummy tests, frustrated with the sustain, clunky skills and low damage...

ak_pvp · September 2017

Bird is only an issue because xv11 ranged spam. IMO warden is one of the easier classes to deal with in smallscale, because their burst is telegraphed. Tbh to increase PvE dps you need to beef up fetcherfly and the bear quite a bit.

Only issue I have is the constant tree spam.