Medium armor does need a buff in PvP, but how do you do it without breaking PvE. There are some good suggestions in here but we need to fix a few things before we go looking into medium armor.
1. Heavy armor wrath passive needs to be removed or changed. I would prefer resistance build over time. Another option is give straight 50% mitigation if receiving damage from 3 or more sources for 5 seconds. (After all heavy is supposed to be about taking damage. I would consider ulti gen, but with how broken vamp drain, tava's, heroic slash and blood spawn would be with it i opted out.
2. Fix heavy armor damage sets. Ravager needs to become medium armor. Fury needs time doubled to full advantage and total weapons damage reduced.
3. Fix dodge roll, while I agree dodge roll can be strong it does not work right all the time.
4. Medium and Light armor needs sustain buff, this is to entice players to use theses sets.
5. Standardize resistance in all armor types:
heavy armor full reinforced should be at cap with major ward and resolve up.
medium armor should be close to 2/3 of max resistance with same buffs up
light armor should be between 1/3-1/2 of heavy with same buffs.
6. Add critical damage bonus to passive skill line for having 5+ medium armor.
7. Remove all forms of rng dodge chance (evasion), nothing is worse than missing because of no skill involved. I would move vigor to medium armor skill line to replace evasion.
8. Under the dodge roll passive remove the cost reduction(obtain from c/p and armor) and add snare removal and immunity for 3-5 seconds on dodge roll, with a 10 second cooldown.
This is how i would fix medium, but in order to do that heavy has to be adjusted first.
Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »You guys do know that the pure resistance difference between 5m/1/1 and 5h/1/1 is not that big? 3.856 physical and spell resistance?
Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »And you realize that Agility breaks even with Wrath at merely 1663 weapon damage and outperforms it after that plus it's constantly up?
Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »You guys do know that the pure resistance difference between 5m/1/1 and 5h/1/1 is not that big? 3.856 physical and spell resistance?
Well, it's 6% less damage taken. If it was the only advantage heavy armor got you might have a point, but it's not.
On top of that 6% less damage taken, you get around 5% more healing (after deducing the medium armor increased crit chance & weapon dmg from the value provided by Rapid Mending) and you get atleast 106 more health regen (which btw is almost worth more "healing" than the Rapid Mending passive if your main heal is called Vigor).
It's a combination of a lot of things that makes normal heavy armor users take around 15% (I did this calculation a while ago, can't remember the exact number) less damage/second through heals and mitigation than medium armor. This 15 becomes 30% when we compare to Legion+Fury heavy armor user.Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »And you realize that Agility breaks even with Wrath at merely 1663 weapon damage and outperforms it after that plus it's constantly up?
No it doesn't. Wrath passive is subject to any weapon damage modifiers you might have - it can require up to 2733 base weapon damage to break even with Wrath, but for the usual scenario where you have just Major Brutality you need 2000 base weapon damage to break even.
Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »You guys do know that the pure resistance difference between 5m/1/1 and 5h/1/1 is not that big? 3.856 physical and spell resistance?
Well, it's 6% less damage taken. If it was the only advantage heavy armor got you might have a point, but it's not.
On top of that 6% less damage taken, you get around 5% more healing (after deducing the medium armor increased crit chance & weapon dmg from the value provided by Rapid Mending) and you get atleast 106 more health regen (which btw is almost worth more "healing" than the Rapid Mending passive if your main heal is called Vigor).
It's a combination of a lot of things that makes normal heavy armor users take around 15% (I did this calculation a while ago, can't remember the exact number) less damage/second through heals and mitigation than medium armor. This 15 becomes 30% when we compare to Legion+Fury heavy armor user.Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »And you realize that Agility breaks even with Wrath at merely 1663 weapon damage and outperforms it after that plus it's constantly up?
No it doesn't. Wrath passive is subject to any weapon damage modifiers you might have - it can require up to 2733 base weapon damage to break even with Wrath, but for the usual scenario where you have just Major Brutality you need 2000 base weapon damage to break even.
Okay, seems like I worded it badly. Should they buff medium? Of course they should. There are a lot of ideas buzzing around here. It isn't like that on live, I know, but this thread is about what could be done and "what if". So:
If I remember correctly, I read the idea with increased healing after a dodge role from you in another thread. With this change your numbers on healing would get diminished. At least when it requires 5 piece medium.
Further reduced by the idea of a mitigation buff while rolling. These changes would close the gap between medium and heavy. After these changes would went live and be tested extensively, then would be the time to talk about nerfs to heavy.
I also mentioned that sets like Ravager etc. need a slight nerf.
Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »On a sidenote: does that "at least 106 more health regen" includes the malus from Vamps?
Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Okay, 2.7k weapon dmg is a strong number. Didn't know that. Thanks for clarifying. 2000 wpn dmg however are easily reached unbuffed. I don't know what the scenario with 2.7k includes or how rare it is but when say "but for the usual scenario" so I take that for granted.
Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Point is, like I said before, I strongly agree in buffs to medium, especially defensive buffs, but to say buff medium AND nerf heavy would be too much and surely lead into another "this armor type or bust" meta.
I hope this clarifies it a bit.
70% damage reduction during roll dodge, Ummmm, no.
Would you prefer the "0% damage reduction, avoid nothing and drain your own stamina" that it currently is?
If not, maybe you could elaborate on your comment?
Edit: to be more clear, in the past Roll Dodge used to avoid almost all damage (100%) and didn't have a stacking cost to it - I believe 70% would be a fair compromise especially considering no one can spam it anymore.
It's not medium that's weak. Heavy armor is still OP. Before the HA upgrade, Medium was extremely popular.
Heavy armor and block builds become more and more common each week. As more players switch to builds like this, more will feel the need to to stay competitive. Soon the PVP will be like it was in 1.5: full of permablock players who have a hard time killing each other. I know some players have fond memories of 1.5, but by the end it was full of hideous disease builds. We are approaching that point again.
In total, i think medium armor need really a buff for damage mitigation is some way.
I would be happy to see something like this:
- Give medium armor the 15% dodge as passive
- Change the medium armor skill to a stamina based damage mitigation shield!
This would decrease heavy armor stamina builds in PvP and increase medium armor a lot!
In PvE this would not chance anything from damage, but the survivalbility!
70% damage reduction during roll dodge, Ummmm, no.
Would you prefer the "0% damage reduction, avoid nothing and drain your own stamina" that it currently is?
If not, maybe you could elaborate on your comment?
Edit: to be more clear, in the past Roll Dodge used to avoid almost all damage (100%) and didn't have a stacking cost to it - I believe 70% would be a fair compromise especially considering no one can spam it anymore.
You must be smoking some high quality crack, I've seen nb's dodge roll 15+ times in a row and still have more then enough stam to burst someone down or sprint away.
LegendaryMage wrote: »Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Shuffle and morph firstly need to require 5 medium armor slotted to use the skill.
Medium armor suffers hard vs all the skills that cant be dodged, and there are alot of them these days. Some damage mitigation when you are dodging would go a long way, and some innate penetration and/or boost to your selfhealing would also help alot.
Just give medium armor something zos...it rly needs a boost.
Shuffle needs to requiere 5 MA... and what good would that do to medium users? They would still mitigate too little and there would still be too much undodgeable stuff out there.
It would also hurt PvE Tava Tanks a lot. But who cares?
But I like your second idea. Sadly the mitigation bonus already exists:
Phase: 'When you use Roll Dodge, your Physical and Spell Resistance is increased by 660 for 3 seconds." 30 points passive from Steed CP.
However, they could couple another mitigation boost to AoEs (2% per piece) while dodging and a short healing recieved bonus after dodging to 5p MA bonus.
It would balance heavy vs medium in pvp. Wich is highly needed. Its the coupling of high mitigation and major evasion thats overperforming in pvp atm, can also be done with shieldstacking and major evasion wich is also effective.
That's the first thing they need to do, I've said it hundreds of times since 2014, all armor abilities NEED to be locked behind 5 pieces of that armor. And I'd even take it a step further and make sure that major evasion never works in (at least) 5+ heavy.
For NBs in light with their class skills, it's arguably ok, but heavy + major evasion is way too OP when fighting a medium armor user.