ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

[*]Eclipse: This ability and its morphs now returns damage whenever the affected enemy casts a direct damage attack. It still grants crowd control immunity when the effect ends and can now be removed by Break Free. Eclipse can also now be placed on an unlimited amount of enemies as a baseline effect.

• Total Dark (Eclipse morph): This morph will heal you when the target casts a direct damage attack.
• Unstable Core (Eclipse morph): This morph adds area of effect damage when the effect ends.

We liked how this ability was acting as a “soft” crowd-control, preventing some abilities but allowing others. However, the list of abilities was too short. We’ve made the ability more universally effective against most offensive abilities, making the process to select the right target and time for the ability more important.

SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »

This patch would be a great time to fix several problems with Templars. Some problems can be lumped together and solved simultaneously.

Problems 1 & 2: Lack of a mobility ability & Lack of a root
While you're handing out speed buffs and roots to other classes like they're candy, maybe show us some love too. You could use Rune Focus to fix both of these problems. Change Restoring Focus to Binding Focus, simply add an AOE CC root to the ability. Change Channeled Focus to Charging Focus and add Major Expedition "while you stand within it and for up to 8 seconds after leaving it".

Problems 3 & 4. Piercing Javelin sucks & Lack of a chain ability
Change Piercing Javelin to a chain ability for Templar tanks (like DK chains). Maintain 1 mag and 1 stam morph.

Problems 5 & 6: Sun Shield & Eclipse
Neither really fits the theme of their respective skill line. Swap them. Sun Shield's "sun" theme clearly matches the Dawn's Wrath skill line better than it does a magic spear skill line. Make the Radiant Ward morph scale with magicka instead of health. Rework Eclipse entirely into a spears-themed thorns ability (perhaps modeled on the Warden's Crystallized Slab or DK Reflective Scales). You could have a morph option for melee thorns and one for ranged reflection.

Problem 7 & 8. Oddball fire damage & poor global DPS passives
Every other Templar ability does Magic damage, not fire. Sun Fire (and morphs) should too. Change Sun Fire to Magic Damage. Change the Balanced Warrior passive to "increase magic damage and physical damage by 6%".

Problem 9 & 10: Unused morphs and worst stam heals in the game.
Make Honor the Dead and/or Ritual of Rebirth a stam heal morph for Stamplars.

Oh, and fix our damage scaling, please.

Xsorus wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Solar could be useful for bursting, @Minno replace Unstable with Solar...Its basically similar to the damage of Unstable but it goes off 3 times vs 1 time. Only problem is you gotta precast it before going in.....and recasting in PvP might be difficult. But yea I used Unstable a few times and it was good.

But with that cast time. Proc Det would be better, since it scales against each additional player.

Proc Det is probably less damage then Solar, its not been very good against 1 player in a long long time.

danno8 wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Solar could be useful for bursting, @Minno replace Unstable with Solar...Its basically similar to the damage of Unstable but it goes off 3 times vs 1 time. Only problem is you gotta precast it before going in.....and recasting in PvP might be difficult. But yea I used Unstable a few times and it was good.

But with that cast time. Proc Det would be better, since it scales against each additional player.

Proc Det is probably less damage then Solar, its not been very good against 1 player in a long long time.

If you run the math, Proxy Det would have to be at around 150%bonus mark, or around 6 enemies hit, in order to have the same total impact as the three pulses from the new Solar. Proxy is just no good against anything but throngs of enemies.

DeHei wrote: »

This amount of castingabilities on one class only can work, when this class has a granted CC immunity allways, when it need to cast a spell.. I mean this abilities arent good. The damage and healing is really low and templar has more better and more flexible skills without casttime. Why should a templar now slot this crapskills?

Destruent wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

DeHei wrote: »

This amount of castingabilities on one class only can work, when this class has a granted CC immunity allways, when it need to cast a spell.. I mean this abilities arent good. The damage and healing is really low and templar has more better and more flexible skills without casttime. Why should a templar now slot this crapskills?

If we are to have no consistent cc, then it makes sense to have these abilities do more DMG than sorcs/nbs. But they won't do that because we have the only reliable burst heal in the game lol.

I think they are confused what makes the Templars work in combat, because we are using other sources for our effectiveness instead of our class abilities. Because if this I feel to make accurate assumptions of how best to change templars gets screwed. For example, valkyn skoria provides a lot burst, and if you take it away you'll be pressed hard to find that lvl of DMG anywhere else in the Templar toolkit.

Unstable core on live is the closest replacement to valkyn and even then you need to combo it up to make it effective.

tbh green dragonblood is a lot better for selfhealing than any burstheal templars have....i alway start crying in pvp when i want to heal myself and someone else gets targeted. And don't get me started on pve-tanking...best heal a templar is is the vampdrain, and this one is really bad compared to dragonblood. overall reliable is something else...but sure...it's great for healing a group, but thats it.

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

CyrusArya wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

Stamina templar: One of the worse pvp classes you can find. Stamina warden has just everything stamplar has and even more.

Is this really what you believe? I find stamplar to have hands down the strongest damage and offensive pressure in the game. Granted the sustain is awful, as it should be to balance such a powerful class. Id take stamplar over stam warden any day when it comes to dealing damage. Now sustain and tankiness, sure warden has the upper hand. But to say warden has everything stamplar does is a bit of an exaggeration.

Jabs+POTL > Birds+Shalk.

Can jabs + potl outburst birds + shalk? Yes. Is birds + shalk the warden burst rotation? No....

I understand that wardens are new, and people are still working out bic builds, but to say a stamplar is better in PvP than a warden is weak when talking 1v1, and pure poppycock in groups. Most especially when those groups are all wardens...

I'd drop some numbers on you, but unless you jumped into a BG with our 4 warden group, you probably wouldn't believe me. Once we got the builds right, my jaw dropped every BG for a couple of days of PvP...

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

Ok, extensive tests completed and so is feedback:
Changes are actually great, but, unlike changes of dragonknights, its only half-way road changes, during next pts cycles we need additional tweaks to solidify new skills mechanics.
1. Eclipse - overall I don't understand all bad feedback about it and calling it crap... First of all and best thing - it became reliable skill that you can use against everyone, well at least against 90% of enemies, I can finally get this skill as my main CC and don't be afraid that all stamina builds will laugh at my face. With such changes and following treatments this skill once again will become one of the best in Templar arsenal, as it once was.
Another great change is that now it breakable: yes, skill bad as CC against any defensive target, like those permablocking tanks that only holds block or healbots that only spam heals, but that can be fixed by Unstable Core morph (read below). In U14 resource sustain became important thing but Templar got unbreakable Eclipse and overall bad CCs. Now it is CC that can pressure enemy's stamina resource while becoming CC that enemy really want to CC Break as soon as possible. As new unique soft CC-debuff it fulfill it's purpose but in unique way: first - it force people to use CC breaks and pressure stamina, second - it allow to survive caster during enemy CCed, third - CC allow to pressure enemy. And it CC with duration, it means that any teammate can hard CC on him during duration of Eclipse, i.e. your usage of it won't destroy others' possibilities of CCs.
New idea of making it soft CC-debuff is very interesting and should be expanded(read below). After it lost ability to disable enemies it lost almost all group utility - teammates can't save they stamina or hp when you eclipsing enemies, but Templars already class with biggest group utility and in return of lost support can now get better Eclipse. And now it benefit Templars who actually want to fight, not carry-bot.
As example I taking fight vs permablocking dragonknight: one of my most hated enemies - right now Templar simply can't CC it coz Aurora is just too bad skill to even consider of using it and Toppling Charge main purpose de facto is gap-close, not CCing. Currently when you fight such dk you can only hope to CC him with Charge, at least for short duration, but it almost impossible - you can do it only during short period of vulnerability to CC when he swap weapons, and you have to take minimal distance for Charge to cast, and that almost impossible with all permasnares and permaroots. And even if you CC him, Charge with its a bit clunky animation grant short duration CC during which you won't be able to burst him down...
But in U16 you can slot Total Dark - and dk will be left with 2 choices - 1. waste presiouc stamina on CC Break, and holding block just won't save him anymore from this CC. I.e. TD fulfill purpose of being CC - the thing that Templar is lacked of. Second choice for dk is to keep debuffed and not waste stamina on CC Break. And that what will happen next, since 90% of dks use their razor armor skill: his second choice will be splitted for 2 choices: A.: he have to drop off block for duration off CC, making him vulnerable to all templar attacks in that time span, that is great. B.: is worst option to choose - keep attacking Templars wile permablocking. That will have terrible results for him: firstly - with TD on dk, he simply won't be able to burst Templar (check tooltip below), it will be equal to be disabled by old Eclipse. Secondly - all his attacks will proc damage return to him, even for all his 1k lightattacks will will eat back twice more damage in addition to direct attacks of Templar will proc Eclipse damage coz razor armor is direct damage that dealt to Templar upon attacks. And thirdly and best part - all damage return he will block will eat his stamina.
As result of such struggle he either will CC Break it or keep fighting with it, and in return stop being threat to Templar while simultaneously will recive large amount of damage and drain his own stamina. That is utterly amazing result.
Regarding tooltips: yes it not reflected damage but tooltip bad only for those Templars who are carry others, for tempalr that actually wana fight and survive it good enough. TD simultaneously will buffed offense and defense. And both parameters can crit, making it even stronger for high crit builds while also making independent to enemies offense capabilities. And unlike warden's Leeching Veins it don't have cooldown on proc.
That is my tooltip on *** pts template while de facto damage is higher coz such CP skills as Shatter Blows/Penetration:

Does anyone really pretend to say that CC that can simultaneously heal for same amount as dk's whip proc (and even much higher), while deal damage that only 10% weaker than initial hit of Vampire Bain on each proc (given that it can happen up to 8 procs during one duration - damage tooltip is 52936 damage in 5 sec) is bad?! Like, really? With such tooltip for every light attack enemy will get even more damage back and heal templar for more than damage dealt, or, on pts when my TD's heal crit - all enemy 6k crit Uppercauts will be completely outhealed by 6k crit heal. In addition to fact that direct attacks was Templars biggest bane since we can just purge dots, unless someone pretend that templar cleanse is bad.
But with all it's effectiveness as I said it only half-way change it really need to threat new mechanics and old mechanics that are relics of previous usage of skill:
1. CC immunity after skill expire - in Morrowind skill was made to have no counter and for that reason became short CC with CC immunity after expire. It was made coz it was impossible to CC break it and CC immunity after expire allowed to not be affected by it 100% of time, i.e. what currently happen with resource guards that apply unbreakable reflect 100% uptime...
But after skill became breakable once again - it should be restored to its former form - to not grant CC immunity on expire. It will make choice of Break it or not to Break it, otherwise 5 sec duration debuff will still be something that many enemies will accept for in return of getting free CC immunity after. In addition it going against new mechanic of soft CC-debuff: when enemy using soft CCs, like roots, waiting for it to expire wont grant immunity to roots. To have it you must actively counter it by dodge, not waiting it expire and get free immunity to next root. If it would be so - roots would start to be useless soft CC.
Given the developer comment about it, currently it a bit wrong: enemy can ignore but it won't turn battle in your favor as much as it can coz for his aggressive action of attacking and not breaking it he will get highest pvp buff - CC immunity... for not CC breaking... It is soft CC-debuff that lost group utility, so why both aspects of this(CC and debuff) must be countered by one act?!
2. Same as was on U14 pts and for that reason hopefully bug: upon purge Eclipse it grant free CC immunity. It should be fixed same as it was in U14 to not grant immunity.
3. Eclipse lost ability to CC checks on cast: well, same as Petrify, so I hope it just a bug. Coz for expensive (unlike new Petrify) skill that is targeted, it huge drawback that will making it as terrible resource eater. But if it not bug there is other solution to it: given that it is not simple soft CC, but new unique soft CC-debuff it might be get next treatment: same as current Total DArk works: split TD on 2 separate debuff: one - is CC damage reflect that can be braken, second is healing solid debuff that can't be broken but only purged; or vice versa, as both are strong. Both can be purged, but only 1 can be CC Breaked. It will allow to not waste resource on empty cast, but even when enemy have CC immunity - cast won't be wasted and will play role of debuff. On debuff list it will look same as current TD:

Visual effect used can be same as it current - debuff as shadows flowing around enemy.
If not - at least increase duration 1 sec. Only 0.5 sec boost from previous unbreakable CC mechanic is too low.
4. Morphs diversity: have to agree with everyone else - Unstable Core became completely useless morph that has absolutely no reason to be used. While TD grant strong utility, all that UC can grant is low damage aoe ~each 7-12 seconds. Currently UC is not the best coz it flaw mechanic of not being CC, and had to be removed from passive that extend duration, but it can deal damage at least. However I think it should be remained as current soft CC but get some treatments to actually become offensive morph that can work against full defensive opponents in perfect state; or at least be aggressive by default.
The way I see fixes:

• a. Same as was done once - buff it returned damage to 60%, that will make it full offense CC: being hit for like 10k on his own attacks before realizing that he debuffed is worthy to sacrifice survivability of TD. And to make it solid with concept of double debuff of TD above - let it be as current TD - apply time bomb.
• b. Same, to be solidified with double debuff concept - make it apply 2.5 sec root debuff on enemy, so if he will have CC immunity, he still can be rooted. Templar is only class without root.
• c. Decrease damage but make damage return to be Oblivion damage with time bomb 2nd debuff. It will be like "ok, you can not to break it but than your block nor your 20k shields will help you in battle". However it won't help against full defense enemy.
• d. As already suggested - keep it as current UC but make it apply unbreakable/undodgeable stun for 2 sec after explosion will hit in 3.5 sec. But this time not exclude from passive again so it will be long 5sec charging. This will make it delayed hard CC, like warden subterranean assault, that will affect full defensive opponents.
• e. Simply make it to restore 500 stamina on proc same as TD restore HP. Wont grant healing survivability but will work in both pve and pvp and tempalr will have to fight in attempt to survive.
• f. Increase damage a bit, but make all damage return to be and magnetic bomb explosion, i.e. aoe damage.

Solar Barrage - another good change but also actually only half-way change. Change differentiated it from Impusle but didn't granted any utility for making this morph independent and that why it should grant more treatments to make it usefull for juggernauts:
I see such ways:
1. Remove Empower buff. Unlike old Barrage and default skill/another morph, current Barrage became AoE DoT that can't be self-empowered, making this buff irrelevant. Those minority of of templar skills that can be empowered simply won't be casted after Barrage, but have to be used before. So we can remove it and it will keep skill as DoT. And that will allow to have it any of other treatments:
A. Remove cast time - we don't even need to theorycraft about this change coz we already have almost exact same skill with long history - Detonation. Once Proximity had to be casted skill with cast time that was removed simply coz it couldn't fulfill its purpose of melee explosion "standing there in interruptable cast and then run to enemies for melee range" simple not worked coz enemies were aleady aware of what is coming; so range morph is cast time with unlimited amount of targets, melee without cast time. It exact same mechanic as Templar Flare works - range morph with high damage, self-empower, and AoE major debuff, so Barrage could be melee DoT without cast time, empower that not working. Bombplars unite
B. Another treatment - and I prefer it more coz it will grant more utility and will be familiar with Templar "channeling" theme keep it as 1sec cast time but solidify it with another morph and allow it to apply Major Defile for 4-5 sec on targets that hitted. It will transform it into frontline aoe skill that will debuff enemies, while Dark Flare will be remained as backline range high damage support skill. Cast time in this case will be drawback that wont allow juggernauts to simply reapply skill while being focused by enemies, but have to LosIng, using shield ult to reapply it, and 1sec cast time that not decreasing speed is not a insane drawback, Dark Deal as example. Also Templar survivability is based on healings but he can't pressure other classes/builds that built same way.
_____________________________________________________________________________________________

And regarding some other small changes:
1. Focus - let it have it bonuses from morphs (mana restore/vitality,protection) to be char based, not ground; keep armor buff ground-based. It will allow Templar to stop recasting Focus every 10 meters when kiting just to make it work, it will make them less turtles, coz even now when you fight in small area fights you have to spam it to have effect. There once was bug when additional effects was attached to caster and I think everyone could agree that it was making this skill much better.
2. Rite of Passage - since dk got huge buff for their Shifting Standart, we should get buff to our useless ults too. In this case I propose idea of Practiced Incantation morph change - make it cast only Templar/cast templar and 1 ally in 8 meters, grant it CC immunity for 8sec, but no longer disable caster. It will make ultimate to work for solo/duo Templars, morph will loose all(almost) group utility but in exchange will work for caster himself and will allow to actively participate in combat. Also it will stop granting armor buff from Light Weaver that equal to major protection buff, i.e. reduce default tankiness in exchange. Keep current bright sun light effect so it will be visible for both caster and enmemies that he is under its effect.
3. Restoring Spirit - to help tempalrs with tankiness make it to reduce all costs for 4% not only resources. Same as Alteration set works.
4. Sweep ultimate - make it scale from highest resource so both magplars/stamplars would have use of it.
4. Empowering Sweep ultimate - make it apply major protection buff instead of current scaling, it will make it 11% stronger in 1v1 but 9% weaker in it max spike effectiveness. Also it will no longer stack with same buff from other sources and grant too much reduction. Rename it to Empowered Sweep.
_____________________________________________________________________________
@Wrobel

Sorry but i disagree with the eclipse presentation. It's going to be just as strong as the current, except to everyone not just magicka, but only to bad players now. As soon as a good player gets hit with this they will cc break and you'll now be screwing up your stun or your allies cc options. You're right in saying its an option in 1v1 vs perma blockers and will force stam drain, but that's something that should be addressed itself. In opened world, all you'll do to a perma blocker is make them immune to a real cc that drops block. Stamina management isn't any issue for good perma blockers in a 1v1 if built right anyway.

It'll be good for the 1 or 2 seconds to stop someone's combo, just like the current eclipse, but now i don't get my cc combo bc they will cc break while I'm recovering. When i do use it i always cc right before the effect ends to get the most out of the skill. The ability to cc break destroys that. Bad change.

Sure it works against a lot more, but no good player is going to sit there hitting themselves for 5 seconds... be real. Sure it would great against npcs, but they are as dumb as it gets.