Everyone who thinks 40 runs = 40 Transmute Crystals are in for rude awakening...

sevomd69 · September 2017

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

DPShiro wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

DPShiro wrote: »

Kneighbors wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

DPShiro wrote: »

Kneighbors wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Azurya wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Wait... this was something people didn't realise?

Whatever, it means I at least am working towards a perfect item with each bit of vet content I do.

spending endless time in dungeons is not my definition of playing a game to have fun.
it is boring and it is dissappointing that this is needed and BiS* is only till the next patch
then you start allover again

and to do some maths:
with 12-14 parts that can be morfed, it requires 480 - 560 crystals for every patch!
how will you ever loot this between 2 patches?

oh and not to think about the unwanted changes ZOS does to your gear, by "optimizing" your gaming experience, LOL

give up my job and only play eso for the rest of my life?
Not really, but
giving up eso and playing something more satifying? Yes, that may be a questionable solution!

*BiS= Best in slot

This isn't meant to be the only means of getting BiS though. If you need gear which is a dungeon drop then you can get that at the same time.

If you're doing dailies each day for keys/shoulders/content then you have 3x shots a day by doing vet dungeons.
If you're farming a set you get # of bosses & chests shots at the perfect trait item + a shot at the gem at the end.
If you're doing end game PvE you get shots every trial you run.

If you're a PvP player you get life even easier and just PvP for your shots at them (you literally get them for doing what you love in PvP).

Again this isn't a system which is designed to re-gear your entire character every update, it's designed to give people who have done 200+ runs of vMA the ability to turn one of those staves into the perfect trait they have been after.

See, as I mentioned before somehow Community Abassadors are the first to justify developers decisions over players opinions.

Just look, how many players you see who support the idea to make a good hundred of vet runs to get one item trait changed? It's only you, the Community Ambassador.

You don't reflect community opinion, same as other Community Ambassadors tend to do. You are simply payed talkback, they gave you special status so you feel obligated to them.

I see no problem with that bro, if you ask me they can even pay people to do this, but why it needs to be so ridiculous being named "Community Ambassador"? It's like someone made it as a joke

You are wrong.
I hope they require 100 and not 40.

And we already proved in the other thread you just want to exclude others from things you want to keep to yourself. You're elitist and want others to suffer.

Thanks for clarifying this, I was amused by the reply of this guy. Like why someone would like to block such an expected feature? Now I see, it's a guy who grinded everything and was lucky to get it (not like many others running same content 100 of times without getting what they are looking for) and now he is coming to spread salt. So pathetic.

So you call doing VMA over 700+ times and still not getting a sharp Inferno lucky?

But did you enjoy it? Do you defend that grind as "just what I wanted"?

If you can't defend that grind then you shouldn't defend the transmutation crystal grind at even 40 of them because it means a lot more work for you, and this time you can't solo it. You ahve to wait for groups and hope they're good enough to finish the veteran content.
Good luck.

I did not.
I mean I did enjoy the first hundred maybe, as it's fun to improve score etc.

But this is my point, with this system I only need to do VMA 40 times and I can change something I already have, no need for another 500+ runs.

They haven't even said whether VMA gives these out yet either. And it could give out a lot less often than actual group veteran content still.
I wonder if you would like to do VMA 200 more times to change one piece of gear.

Actually they did...

Transmutation requires Transmute Crystals, precious resources occasionally received for successfully completing Veteran PvE activities such as Pledges, Trials, and Arenas, and several PvP sources such as Rewards for the Worthy, Battleground end of match rewards, and AvA end of campaign rewards. Transmute Crystals are an account wide, capped currency which cannot be banked or traded.

Miswar · September 2017

I hope the drop rate is way below 1:1 on Live.

Simply because unless it is high than well econony will be ruined in the game.

Brrrofski · September 2017

Miswar wrote: »

I hope the drop rate is way below 1:1 on Live.

Simply because unless it is high than well econony will be ruined in the game.

There's plenty of other things to sell.

sevomd69 · September 2017

Brrrofski wrote: »

Miswar wrote: »

I hope the drop rate is way below 1:1 on Live.

Simply because unless it is high than well econony will be ruined in the game.

There's plenty of other things to sell.

There's plenty of weapons you can craft...

Mystrius_Archaion · September 2017

sevomd69 wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

sevomd69 wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

DPShiro wrote: »

I mean you called people wanting BiS to require some effort "racists" "masochists" etc.

No, I said those same "ists" and "isms" come from the same emotional selfishness and ill will toward fellow people where racism and other such evil/bad things from from.
They're all born out of a sense of entitlement that nobody should ever be equal to you or have it easier. It's closely related to old man "kids these days. In my day we walked uphill 5 miles, both ways, barefoot in the snow to school and back". /getoffmylawn

Why do some people have it against things getting better and easier, especially when there is so much more to do that anybody new has an overwhelming amount of things on their plate that can be very daunting?

I don't know about you, other than your arguments for grind, but I'm very afraid for the game with the way it is headed and how it isn't looking more friendly to new players. We're going to be hemorrhaging players eventually with nobody to replace them.

Entitlement...is when somebody wants the same thing that other people have worked hard for...because...well...just because...

Entitlement goes both ways. It can also be someone who thinks they are entitled to control others and make decisions for them, like a dictator, or thinks they are entitled to something that nobody else should have, like making it a grind that discourages most others.

And I feel entitled to my virtual pixels and new system because I'm paying them for it as part of a product that is intended, as I paid for this, to be fun and not a super grind.
If they want my money to walk elsewhere with this exclusivity crap so that only the few "top players" are left with their "exclusive content" then that's what they can have.

The game doesn't support you elitists. It never will if they want to make money and thrive.

How is it elitist, that I don't want this game made too easy?

When has "more runs" or "longer time" ever been "hard" or "easy"?

You're confusing difficulty with "life-sucking pit of despair, pray to RNGesus for relief and have those prayers go unanswered".

That's why that is elitist. You want grind for the sake of keeping it out of the hands of others because you feel it is a challenge you want to be proud of to be forced to wait longer or repeat boring content.
If they actually made the content more fun and easier with a group, which is more fun, then we would do the content more.

I'm actually surprised they haven't reworked group content from older DLCs and the base game to have newer mechanics and more variety. Other games have done it. Hell, World of Warcraft redid their entire world and called it an expansion and sold it.
But I guess they haven't figured out how to monetize it yet so they won't.

Turelus · September 2017

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

HatchetHaro wrote: »

This is definitely intended. I understand why people would be miffed about farming for it, but it is a resource that is designed to be earned while you play as an accumulating reward rather than instant gratification at launch.

Nobody is talking about instant gratification, but locking it behind a veteran group wall, where not everybody can get a group that often or actually complete the content, is pretty insane.

Without trying to sound a like PvE snob (as I really am not) if you're not doing veteran content already you probably don't need to worry about best in slot traits.

Also once again this isn't meant for a full kit redo. If you're trying to gear armour from dungeons then run with 3x friends and you can gear armour pretty fast. Weapons are pain and maybe worth it to use these on, however they really shine on the BoP Master/Maelstrom items where it's much harder to get the perfect trait.

Overland sets can be purchased as well, two or three good daily motif drops would be good enough to get gold to buy a meta armour piece.

supaskrub · September 2017

Miswar wrote: »

I hope the drop rate is way below 1:1 on Live.

Simply because unless it is high than well econony will be ruined in the game.

Economy won't be effected at all, no person in their right mind is going to re-trait a "Bind on Equip" item with an "occasional" drop rate (that you need multiples of anyway) when you can go straight to a guild store and buy the item you want or just carry on farming for the set.

zaria · September 2017

Miswar wrote: »

I hope the drop rate is way below 1:1 on Live.

Simply because unless it is high than well econony will be ruined in the game.

Only thing it might threaten is overland bis weapons who is so expensive since they are so rare.
Nobody will run an veteran dungeon 40 times to transform an 30K armor item like necro robe so armor will not be impacted even with an 1:1 drop.

Mystrius_Archaion · September 2017

Miswar wrote: »

I hope the drop rate is way below 1:1 on Live.

Simply because unless it is high than well econony will be ruined in the game.

What economy?
These gems themselves are BoP. They may bind the item you use them on as well. The item you are using them is probably already bound. The grind you would be avoiding for that special item is likely a BoP item.

How would this ruin an economy that is prevented from being an economy by the mechanics of BoP items?

Actually, this could boost the BoE item economy that is mostly cheap items right now unless it's the perfect trait. Now people may actually want to buy less than ideal trait items to change to a trait they desire, not just the most popular trait, which allows more sellers to sell more different items.
But that would require the trait change to be easier. Catch-22.

Mystrius_Archaion · September 2017

sevomd69 wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

DPShiro wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

DPShiro wrote: »

Kneighbors wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

DPShiro wrote: »

Kneighbors wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Azurya wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Wait... this was something people didn't realise?

Whatever, it means I at least am working towards a perfect item with each bit of vet content I do.

spending endless time in dungeons is not my definition of playing a game to have fun.
it is boring and it is dissappointing that this is needed and BiS* is only till the next patch
then you start allover again

and to do some maths:
with 12-14 parts that can be morfed, it requires 480 - 560 crystals for every patch!
how will you ever loot this between 2 patches?

oh and not to think about the unwanted changes ZOS does to your gear, by "optimizing" your gaming experience, LOL

give up my job and only play eso for the rest of my life?
Not really, but
giving up eso and playing something more satifying? Yes, that may be a questionable solution!

*BiS= Best in slot

This isn't meant to be the only means of getting BiS though. If you need gear which is a dungeon drop then you can get that at the same time.

If you're doing dailies each day for keys/shoulders/content then you have 3x shots a day by doing vet dungeons.
If you're farming a set you get # of bosses & chests shots at the perfect trait item + a shot at the gem at the end.
If you're doing end game PvE you get shots every trial you run.

If you're a PvP player you get life even easier and just PvP for your shots at them (you literally get them for doing what you love in PvP).

Again this isn't a system which is designed to re-gear your entire character every update, it's designed to give people who have done 200+ runs of vMA the ability to turn one of those staves into the perfect trait they have been after.

See, as I mentioned before somehow Community Abassadors are the first to justify developers decisions over players opinions.

Just look, how many players you see who support the idea to make a good hundred of vet runs to get one item trait changed? It's only you, the Community Ambassador.

You don't reflect community opinion, same as other Community Ambassadors tend to do. You are simply payed talkback, they gave you special status so you feel obligated to them.

I see no problem with that bro, if you ask me they can even pay people to do this, but why it needs to be so ridiculous being named "Community Ambassador"? It's like someone made it as a joke

You are wrong.
I hope they require 100 and not 40.

And we already proved in the other thread you just want to exclude others from things you want to keep to yourself. You're elitist and want others to suffer.

Thanks for clarifying this, I was amused by the reply of this guy. Like why someone would like to block such an expected feature? Now I see, it's a guy who grinded everything and was lucky to get it (not like many others running same content 100 of times without getting what they are looking for) and now he is coming to spread salt. So pathetic.

So you call doing VMA over 700+ times and still not getting a sharp Inferno lucky?

But did you enjoy it? Do you defend that grind as "just what I wanted"?

If you can't defend that grind then you shouldn't defend the transmutation crystal grind at even 40 of them because it means a lot more work for you, and this time you can't solo it. You ahve to wait for groups and hope they're good enough to finish the veteran content.
Good luck.

I did not.
I mean I did enjoy the first hundred maybe, as it's fun to improve score etc.

But this is my point, with this system I only need to do VMA 40 times and I can change something I already have, no need for another 500+ runs.

They haven't even said whether VMA gives these out yet either. And it could give out a lot less often than actual group veteran content still.
I wonder if you would like to do VMA 200 more times to change one piece of gear.

Actually they did...

Transmutation requires Transmute Crystals, precious resources occasionally received for successfully completing Veteran PvE activities such as Pledges, Trials, and Arenas, and several PvP sources such as Rewards for the Worthy, Battleground end of match rewards, and AvA end of campaign rewards. Transmute Crystals are an account wide, capped currency which cannot be banked or traded.

But, has anyone tested it. There is another arena, Dragonstar Arena, that may be where it drops. Or would this also include Kvatch Arena?
I reserve my judgment on whether it is attainable enough until final numbers and content list is spelled out.
And they better have a finite list of where these drop that is easy to find. I hate having to google things and get half-truths from anecdotal forum posts to determine if I want to put effort into anything.

sevomd69 · September 2017

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

sevomd69 wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

sevomd69 wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

DPShiro wrote: »

I mean you called people wanting BiS to require some effort "racists" "masochists" etc.

No, I said those same "ists" and "isms" come from the same emotional selfishness and ill will toward fellow people where racism and other such evil/bad things from from.
They're all born out of a sense of entitlement that nobody should ever be equal to you or have it easier. It's closely related to old man "kids these days. In my day we walked uphill 5 miles, both ways, barefoot in the snow to school and back". /getoffmylawn

Why do some people have it against things getting better and easier, especially when there is so much more to do that anybody new has an overwhelming amount of things on their plate that can be very daunting?

I don't know about you, other than your arguments for grind, but I'm very afraid for the game with the way it is headed and how it isn't looking more friendly to new players. We're going to be hemorrhaging players eventually with nobody to replace them.

Entitlement...is when somebody wants the same thing that other people have worked hard for...because...well...just because...

Entitlement goes both ways. It can also be someone who thinks they are entitled to control others and make decisions for them, like a dictator, or thinks they are entitled to something that nobody else should have, like making it a grind that discourages most others.

And I feel entitled to my virtual pixels and new system because I'm paying them for it as part of a product that is intended, as I paid for this, to be fun and not a super grind.
If they want my money to walk elsewhere with this exclusivity crap so that only the few "top players" are left with their "exclusive content" then that's what they can have.

The game doesn't support you elitists. It never will if they want to make money and thrive.

How is it elitist, that I don't want this game made too easy?

When has "more runs" or "longer time" ever been "hard" or "easy"?

You're confusing difficulty with "life-sucking pit of despair, pray to RNGesus for relief and have those prayers go unanswered".

That's why that is elitist. You want grind for the sake of keeping it out of the hands of others because you feel it is a challenge you want to be proud of to be forced to wait longer or repeat boring content.
If they actually made the content more fun and easier with a group, which is more fun, then we would do the content more.

I'm actually surprised they haven't reworked group content from older DLCs and the base game to have newer mechanics and more variety. Other games have done it. Hell, World of Warcraft redid their entire world and called it an expansion and sold it.
But I guess they haven't figured out how to monetize it yet so they won't.

See...my wife runs marathons...which I feel is pretty close to a "life-sucking pit of despair"...I would never want to run 26 miles ever...because well...running is just boring to me...but she on the other hand sees it is a challenge of body and mind...

So what I see as a challenge...might be boring and repetitive to you...but the feeling of finally getting that divine valkyn skoria helm after many runs(too embarrassed to give real number)...is the reason I have been playing rpg's for the last 30+ years...

sevomd69 · September 2017

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

sevomd69 wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

DPShiro wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

DPShiro wrote: »

Kneighbors wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

DPShiro wrote: »

Kneighbors wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Azurya wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Wait... this was something people didn't realise?

Whatever, it means I at least am working towards a perfect item with each bit of vet content I do.

spending endless time in dungeons is not my definition of playing a game to have fun.
it is boring and it is dissappointing that this is needed and BiS* is only till the next patch
then you start allover again

and to do some maths:
with 12-14 parts that can be morfed, it requires 480 - 560 crystals for every patch!
how will you ever loot this between 2 patches?

oh and not to think about the unwanted changes ZOS does to your gear, by "optimizing" your gaming experience, LOL

give up my job and only play eso for the rest of my life?
Not really, but
giving up eso and playing something more satifying? Yes, that may be a questionable solution!

*BiS= Best in slot

This isn't meant to be the only means of getting BiS though. If you need gear which is a dungeon drop then you can get that at the same time.

If you're doing dailies each day for keys/shoulders/content then you have 3x shots a day by doing vet dungeons.
If you're farming a set you get # of bosses & chests shots at the perfect trait item + a shot at the gem at the end.
If you're doing end game PvE you get shots every trial you run.

If you're a PvP player you get life even easier and just PvP for your shots at them (you literally get them for doing what you love in PvP).

Again this isn't a system which is designed to re-gear your entire character every update, it's designed to give people who have done 200+ runs of vMA the ability to turn one of those staves into the perfect trait they have been after.

See, as I mentioned before somehow Community Abassadors are the first to justify developers decisions over players opinions.

Just look, how many players you see who support the idea to make a good hundred of vet runs to get one item trait changed? It's only you, the Community Ambassador.

You don't reflect community opinion, same as other Community Ambassadors tend to do. You are simply payed talkback, they gave you special status so you feel obligated to them.

I see no problem with that bro, if you ask me they can even pay people to do this, but why it needs to be so ridiculous being named "Community Ambassador"? It's like someone made it as a joke

You are wrong.
I hope they require 100 and not 40.

And we already proved in the other thread you just want to exclude others from things you want to keep to yourself. You're elitist and want others to suffer.

Thanks for clarifying this, I was amused by the reply of this guy. Like why someone would like to block such an expected feature? Now I see, it's a guy who grinded everything and was lucky to get it (not like many others running same content 100 of times without getting what they are looking for) and now he is coming to spread salt. So pathetic.

So you call doing VMA over 700+ times and still not getting a sharp Inferno lucky?

But did you enjoy it? Do you defend that grind as "just what I wanted"?

If you can't defend that grind then you shouldn't defend the transmutation crystal grind at even 40 of them because it means a lot more work for you, and this time you can't solo it. You ahve to wait for groups and hope they're good enough to finish the veteran content.
Good luck.

I did not.
I mean I did enjoy the first hundred maybe, as it's fun to improve score etc.

But this is my point, with this system I only need to do VMA 40 times and I can change something I already have, no need for another 500+ runs.

They haven't even said whether VMA gives these out yet either. And it could give out a lot less often than actual group veteran content still.
I wonder if you would like to do VMA 200 more times to change one piece of gear.

Actually they did...

Transmutation requires Transmute Crystals, precious resources occasionally received for successfully completing Veteran PvE activities such as Pledges, Trials, and Arenas, and several PvP sources such as Rewards for the Worthy, Battleground end of match rewards, and AvA end of campaign rewards. Transmute Crystals are an account wide, capped currency which cannot be banked or traded.

But, has anyone tested it. There is another arena, Dragonstar Arena, that may be where it drops. Or would this also include Kvatch Arena?
I reserve my judgment on whether it is attainable enough until final numbers and content list is spelled out.
And they better have a finite list of where these drop that is easy to find. I hate having to google things and get half-truths from anecdotal forum posts to determine if I want to put effort into anything.

Yeah...which still would include Maelstrom Arena...so I don't really get your point there...

Like I said in another thread...we will just have to wait and see...

Izaki · September 2017

sevomd69 wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

Personally I think this will change since the "re-trait" system is such a huge selling-point for the CWC-DLC. I would either like to see them changing the amount of crystals that drops or lowering the amount it takes to re-trait an item.

Why do you think it will change... it costs I believe 120 dwarven construct parts to make the test dummy from HoF...that is 120 runs of HoF...120... this is for an item that does not affect balance at all...

No that's 10 runs of vHoF since every raid group only needs 1 centurion.

Izaki · September 2017

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

DPShiro wrote: »

Kneighbors wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Azurya wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Wait... this was something people didn't realise?

Whatever, it means I at least am working towards a perfect item with each bit of vet content I do.

spending endless time in dungeons is not my definition of playing a game to have fun.
it is boring and it is dissappointing that this is needed and BiS* is only till the next patch
then you start allover again

and to do some maths:
with 12-14 parts that can be morfed, it requires 480 - 560 crystals for every patch!
how will you ever loot this between 2 patches?

oh and not to think about the unwanted changes ZOS does to your gear, by "optimizing" your gaming experience, LOL

give up my job and only play eso for the rest of my life?
Not really, but
giving up eso and playing something more satifying? Yes, that may be a questionable solution!

*BiS= Best in slot

This isn't meant to be the only means of getting BiS though. If you need gear which is a dungeon drop then you can get that at the same time.

If you're doing dailies each day for keys/shoulders/content then you have 3x shots a day by doing vet dungeons.
If you're farming a set you get # of bosses & chests shots at the perfect trait item + a shot at the gem at the end.
If you're doing end game PvE you get shots every trial you run.

If you're a PvP player you get life even easier and just PvP for your shots at them (you literally get them for doing what you love in PvP).

Again this isn't a system which is designed to re-gear your entire character every update, it's designed to give people who have done 200+ runs of vMA the ability to turn one of those staves into the perfect trait they have been after.

See, as I mentioned before somehow Community Abassadors are the first to justify developers decisions over players opinions.

Just look, how many players you see who support the idea to make a good hundred of vet runs to get one item trait changed? It's only you, the Community Ambassador.

You don't reflect community opinion, same as other Community Ambassadors tend to do. You are simply payed talkback, they gave you special status so you feel obligated to them.

I see no problem with that bro, if you ask me they can even pay people to do this, but why it needs to be so ridiculous being named "Community Ambassador"? It's like someone made it as a joke

You are wrong.
I hope they require 100 and not 40.

And we already proved in the other thread you just want to exclude others from things you want to keep to yourself. You're elitist and want others to suffer.

You make elitist sound like an insult. Its not.

sevomd69 · September 2017

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

sevomd69 wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

Personally I think this will change since the "re-trait" system is such a huge selling-point for the CWC-DLC. I would either like to see them changing the amount of crystals that drops or lowering the amount it takes to re-trait an item.

Why do you think it will change... it costs I believe 120 dwarven construct parts to make the test dummy from HoF...that is 120 runs of HoF...120... this is for an item that does not affect balance at all...

No that's 10 runs of vHoF since every raid group only needs 1 centurion.

So if I run a trial with you...you and 10 other members would just give me their constructs? And this would occur in 9 other runs? BTW not everyone runs with set raid groups...

supaskrub · September 2017

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

This sounds like another super grindy annoying system that will be ignored by new players and casuals alike, not attracting anybody but the few crazy enough to grind a lot who have been here a long time and getting saltier by the month. I'm definitely noticing my sodium-chloride content rising.

I think we are all noticing it rise.

Anyway, you are jumping down a guys throat by saying he is "elitist" when he has given a perfectly valid and "non elitist" reason why the fragments should not be raining from the sky for everyone, there was nothing elitist in what he said which basically was that it should not be so easy that you can retrait every single item in your inventory. If it was that easy why not just have items with no traits and apply your own requirement beause thats what it would almost become.

Its an mmo, progression is not an entitlement and you have to work at it, those who put in more should get more out which by default puts them ahead of casuals and non regular players, it does'nt mean they are elitist..far from it.

DMuehlhausen · September 2017

Turelus wrote: »

Wait... this was something people didn't realise?

Whatever, it means I at least am working towards a perfect item with each bit of vet content I do.

That is exactly how you should look at it. That should also make it so you're a little more willing to go with a PuG. Help them learn what to do and then PuGs become much easier.

It was the same thing in games like WoW when new content would come out. At first PuGs were crazy hard then it all became a walk in the park cause everyone knew how to do it. Here it seems people are just unwilling to help anybody else learn like they are keeping some huge Top Secret Tech hidden away just for themselves...of course these are also the people that complain they can't find their gear because they can never get groups that can finish the dungeon.

Mystrius_Archaion · September 2017

sevomd69 wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

sevomd69 wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

sevomd69 wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

DPShiro wrote: »

I mean you called people wanting BiS to require some effort "racists" "masochists" etc.

No, I said those same "ists" and "isms" come from the same emotional selfishness and ill will toward fellow people where racism and other such evil/bad things from from.
They're all born out of a sense of entitlement that nobody should ever be equal to you or have it easier. It's closely related to old man "kids these days. In my day we walked uphill 5 miles, both ways, barefoot in the snow to school and back". /getoffmylawn

Why do some people have it against things getting better and easier, especially when there is so much more to do that anybody new has an overwhelming amount of things on their plate that can be very daunting?

I don't know about you, other than your arguments for grind, but I'm very afraid for the game with the way it is headed and how it isn't looking more friendly to new players. We're going to be hemorrhaging players eventually with nobody to replace them.

Entitlement...is when somebody wants the same thing that other people have worked hard for...because...well...just because...

Entitlement goes both ways. It can also be someone who thinks they are entitled to control others and make decisions for them, like a dictator, or thinks they are entitled to something that nobody else should have, like making it a grind that discourages most others.

And I feel entitled to my virtual pixels and new system because I'm paying them for it as part of a product that is intended, as I paid for this, to be fun and not a super grind.
If they want my money to walk elsewhere with this exclusivity crap so that only the few "top players" are left with their "exclusive content" then that's what they can have.

The game doesn't support you elitists. It never will if they want to make money and thrive.

How is it elitist, that I don't want this game made too easy?

When has "more runs" or "longer time" ever been "hard" or "easy"?

You're confusing difficulty with "life-sucking pit of despair, pray to RNGesus for relief and have those prayers go unanswered".

That's why that is elitist. You want grind for the sake of keeping it out of the hands of others because you feel it is a challenge you want to be proud of to be forced to wait longer or repeat boring content.
If they actually made the content more fun and easier with a group, which is more fun, then we would do the content more.

I'm actually surprised they haven't reworked group content from older DLCs and the base game to have newer mechanics and more variety. Other games have done it. Hell, World of Warcraft redid their entire world and called it an expansion and sold it.
But I guess they haven't figured out how to monetize it yet so they won't.

See...my wife runs marathons...which I feel is pretty close to a "life-sucking pit of despair"...I would never want to run 26 miles ever...because well...running is just boring to me...but she on the other hand sees it is a challenge of body and mind...

So what I see as a challenge...might be boring and repetitive to you...but the feeling of finally getting that divine valkyn skoria helm after many runs(too embarrassed to give real number)...is the reason I have been playing rpg's for the last 30+ years...

Actually, a marathon is challenging to anyone because of the physical demands. You can also find it boring, but it is also a challenge.

We're sitting on our butts moving very little as we click on a keyboard and mouse or gamepad to mostly just follow light patterns on our screen, like staying out of red and going into green, over and over memorized just to get this "difficult and so challenging" loot.

It's not a challenge. Stop deluding yourself that grind ever was a challenge. You've got the content on farm. You will be "farming it" if you do for these items. It's not like you're going to the new trial first day to do the hardest mode it has just for these transmutation crystals.

And if video games were truly challenging then we wouldn't all be playing it. This would be an esport game.

theamazingx · September 2017

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

HatchetHaro wrote: »

This is definitely intended. I understand why people would be miffed about farming for it, but it is a resource that is designed to be earned while you play as an accumulating reward rather than instant gratification at launch.

Nobody is talking about instant gratification, but locking it behind a veteran group wall, where not everybody can get a group that often or actually complete the content, is pretty insane.
Even at 40 runs for 40 crystals to transmute one time it's even more insane. Another forum posters said 10-15 minutes to run the fastest vet dungeon. That's 8-10 hours not including forming the group or reforming when not everbody sticks together.

So we've got 8-9 eligible items for one full kit of equipment that can be trait changed if we need them to. That's going to be months and months of work. One piece could be months and months even for the more casual.

And FYI, new players can't even do this. They can't do Veteran content unless somebody wants to carry them if the game even allows it.
That's a pretty stupid design to have a major system locked to the very endgame. They probably won't even touch it for a while once they get there since they couldn't even pay around with it earlier. It's like trying to show an 80 year old how to use a smartphone for simple calling even. They just refuse to learn even if they can remember the directions enough to learn.

This is very short-sighted to add more grind, especially considering much of this grind is mutually exclusive to each other based on location. It's not like you can farm crafting nodes while running most dungeons or farm a trial for one item while farming a different dungeon for an item there.
Limited time is a killer of games. The more time they take for everything with little to show for it the more they get boring and die. People are getting busier outside the game, not having more free time.

Nothing changed for new players. Grinding out divines bsw or something didn't suddenly get harder. This system only exists to put an rng cap on items like maelstrom weapons and monster helms in perfect traits, things new players shouldn't be worrying about in the first place.

sevomd69 · September 2017

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

sevomd69 wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

sevomd69 wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

sevomd69 wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

DPShiro wrote: »

I mean you called people wanting BiS to require some effort "racists" "masochists" etc.

No, I said those same "ists" and "isms" come from the same emotional selfishness and ill will toward fellow people where racism and other such evil/bad things from from.
They're all born out of a sense of entitlement that nobody should ever be equal to you or have it easier. It's closely related to old man "kids these days. In my day we walked uphill 5 miles, both ways, barefoot in the snow to school and back". /getoffmylawn

Why do some people have it against things getting better and easier, especially when there is so much more to do that anybody new has an overwhelming amount of things on their plate that can be very daunting?

I don't know about you, other than your arguments for grind, but I'm very afraid for the game with the way it is headed and how it isn't looking more friendly to new players. We're going to be hemorrhaging players eventually with nobody to replace them.

Entitlement...is when somebody wants the same thing that other people have worked hard for...because...well...just because...

Entitlement goes both ways. It can also be someone who thinks they are entitled to control others and make decisions for them, like a dictator, or thinks they are entitled to something that nobody else should have, like making it a grind that discourages most others.

And I feel entitled to my virtual pixels and new system because I'm paying them for it as part of a product that is intended, as I paid for this, to be fun and not a super grind.
If they want my money to walk elsewhere with this exclusivity crap so that only the few "top players" are left with their "exclusive content" then that's what they can have.

The game doesn't support you elitists. It never will if they want to make money and thrive.

How is it elitist, that I don't want this game made too easy?

When has "more runs" or "longer time" ever been "hard" or "easy"?

You're confusing difficulty with "life-sucking pit of despair, pray to RNGesus for relief and have those prayers go unanswered".

That's why that is elitist. You want grind for the sake of keeping it out of the hands of others because you feel it is a challenge you want to be proud of to be forced to wait longer or repeat boring content.
If they actually made the content more fun and easier with a group, which is more fun, then we would do the content more.

I'm actually surprised they haven't reworked group content from older DLCs and the base game to have newer mechanics and more variety. Other games have done it. Hell, World of Warcraft redid their entire world and called it an expansion and sold it.
But I guess they haven't figured out how to monetize it yet so they won't.

See...my wife runs marathons...which I feel is pretty close to a "life-sucking pit of despair"...I would never want to run 26 miles ever...because well...running is just boring to me...but she on the other hand sees it is a challenge of body and mind...

So what I see as a challenge...might be boring and repetitive to you...but the feeling of finally getting that divine valkyn skoria helm after many runs(too embarrassed to give real number)...is the reason I have been playing rpg's for the last 30+ years...

Actually, a marathon is challenging to anyone because of the physical demands. You can also find it boring, but it is also a challenge.

We're sitting on our butts moving very little as we click on a keyboard and mouse or gamepad to mostly just follow light patterns on our screen, like staying out of red and going into green, over and over memorized just to get this "difficult and so challenging" loot.

It's not a challenge. Stop deluding yourself that grind ever was a challenge. You've got the content on farm. You will be "farming it" if you do for these items. It's not like you're going to the new trial first day to do the hardest mode it has just for these transmutation crystals.

And if video games were truly challenging then we wouldn't all be playing it. This would be an esport game.

Who are you to say what is or isn't challenging to me...or what I will be doing the first day this DLC drops...you know nothing about me...
so going by your argument...if something is truly challenging nobody would be doing it... I don't even know how to respond to that...maybe you need to challenge yourself a little more...and experience the feeling of accomplishment that comes with overcoming said challenge...

Mystrius_Archaion · September 2017

supaskrub wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

This sounds like another super grindy annoying system that will be ignored by new players and casuals alike, not attracting anybody but the few crazy enough to grind a lot who have been here a long time and getting saltier by the month. I'm definitely noticing my sodium-chloride content rising.

I think we are all noticing it rise.

Anyway, you are jumping down a guys throat by saying he is "elitist" when he has given a perfectly valid and "non elitist" reason why the fragments should not be raining from the sky for everyone,

1) I'm not jumping down throats. Text has no tone so you apply to it what you want.

2) I never said they should be raining from the sky or anything of the sort. I just think they shouldn't be a "chore" to get. It's never been hard and never will be, but it can always be annoying and an unnecessarily long waste of time. Grouping required is that way, especially the time I normally game and have time to group on the NA server.

3) That was the guy who wanted it to take 100 runs, not 40. His reason from another thread was "nobody should be given the BiS item day one". He's not concerned with it being a grind or not a grind. He just doesn't want others to get easier what took him a long time. He's arguing from either the typical old man "get off my lawn" position or the "I don't want anybody else being equal to me so easily" position. Both are elitist in their own way.
Sorry, it's just the truth.

Turelus · September 2017

Remember when this thread was about drop rates.

sevomd69 · September 2017

Turelus wrote: »

Remember when this thread was about drop rates.

^^This^^

theamazingx · September 2017

Turelus wrote: »

Remember when this thread was about drop rates.

It's been transmuted.

sevomd69 · September 2017

Turelus wrote: »

Remember when this thread was about drop rates.

Its all your fault...how dare you be a community ambassador...and express an opinion...that is not shared by everybody...you are scum of Nirn...

Turelus · September 2017

theamazingx wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Remember when this thread was about drop rates.

It's been transmuted.

.... Okay you win today's best forums post. Have an awesome.

sevomd69 wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Remember when this thread was about drop rates.

Its all your fault...how dare you be a community ambassador...and express an opinion...that is not shared by everybody...you are scum of Nirn...

Okay I will stop derailing the thread now and try and let it get back on topic.

STEVIL · September 2017

Qbiken wrote: »

Personally I think this will change since the "re-trait" system is such a huge selling-point for the CWC-DLC. I would either like to see them changing the amount of crystals that drops or lowering the amount it takes to re-trait an item.

Since it is on a test server, i doubt much of the fine details are set in stone.

history says "the big change" (TBC) itself (adding transmute) will get thru regardless of feedback and testing but the details and fine print of TBC change a lot during testing. The feedback on drop rates and crystals burned per trans will play a role in what the final figure is.

Mystrius_Archaion · September 2017

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Wait... this was something people didn't realise?

Whatever, it means I at least am working towards a perfect item with each bit of vet content I do.

That is exactly how you should look at it. That should also make it so you're a little more willing to go with a PuG. Help them learn what to do and then PuGs become much easier.

It was the same thing in games like WoW when new content would come out. At first PuGs were crazy hard then it all became a walk in the park cause everyone knew how to do it. Here it seems people are just unwilling to help anybody else learn like they are keeping some huge Top Secret Tech hidden away just for themselves...of course these are also the people that complain they can't find their gear because they can never get groups that can finish the dungeon.

People are likely just tired of teaching others how to play. They think everyone should be good by max level. This has always been a relatively common viewpoint, but it has gotten worse, perhaps because a lot of us are older.
I used to be much more willing to help than I am now. I still do help and teach, but my call center tech support job has ruined me for a lot of it because I have to help the dumbest walking vegetables you could ever talk to every workday. It wears on you after a few years. I'll hit 4 years there in january.

Anyway, I have enough grind and educating I do in my everyday life. I just want to come into the game and solo to get what I want. Sure, I'll run the group content for the story and the cosmetics or if it actually is fun, but otherwise I just want the utility stuff like my gear to be easier to get elsewhere. I'm not really a fan of gear based systems anyway. I prefer level to matter more because it doesn't just get replaced with the previous stuff being trashed.

I'm trying to protect my future self-interest here and make sure these transmutation crystals are more attainable for all from more content. If that means I have to point out why arguments to the counter do not help me or others and just make it more tedious for no good logical reason and only logically unkind or dumb reasons then so be it.

Mystrius_Archaion · September 2017

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

DPShiro wrote: »

Kneighbors wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Azurya wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Wait... this was something people didn't realise?

Whatever, it means I at least am working towards a perfect item with each bit of vet content I do.

spending endless time in dungeons is not my definition of playing a game to have fun.
it is boring and it is dissappointing that this is needed and BiS* is only till the next patch
then you start allover again

and to do some maths:
with 12-14 parts that can be morfed, it requires 480 - 560 crystals for every patch!
how will you ever loot this between 2 patches?

oh and not to think about the unwanted changes ZOS does to your gear, by "optimizing" your gaming experience, LOL

give up my job and only play eso for the rest of my life?
Not really, but
giving up eso and playing something more satifying? Yes, that may be a questionable solution!

*BiS= Best in slot

This isn't meant to be the only means of getting BiS though. If you need gear which is a dungeon drop then you can get that at the same time.

If you're doing dailies each day for keys/shoulders/content then you have 3x shots a day by doing vet dungeons.
If you're farming a set you get # of bosses & chests shots at the perfect trait item + a shot at the gem at the end.
If you're doing end game PvE you get shots every trial you run.

If you're a PvP player you get life even easier and just PvP for your shots at them (you literally get them for doing what you love in PvP).

Again this isn't a system which is designed to re-gear your entire character every update, it's designed to give people who have done 200+ runs of vMA the ability to turn one of those staves into the perfect trait they have been after.

See, as I mentioned before somehow Community Abassadors are the first to justify developers decisions over players opinions.

Just look, how many players you see who support the idea to make a good hundred of vet runs to get one item trait changed? It's only you, the Community Ambassador.

You don't reflect community opinion, same as other Community Ambassadors tend to do. You are simply payed talkback, they gave you special status so you feel obligated to them.

I see no problem with that bro, if you ask me they can even pay people to do this, but why it needs to be so ridiculous being named "Community Ambassador"? It's like someone made it as a joke

You are wrong.
I hope they require 100 and not 40.

And we already proved in the other thread you just want to exclude others from things you want to keep to yourself. You're elitist and want others to suffer.

You make elitist sound like an insult. Its not.

It can be. Dictators are elitist and so are racists. I honestly don't see any way it would be a compliment unless it is from one elitist to another as they share their caviar and sushi at some restaurant you need reservations for 2 years to get into even with a private membership.

It's dumb to claim to be elitist and to claim it isn't a bad thing. You're deliberately exclusionary and most often for no reason other than you don't want to be near others.
You play an MMO. You should be helping others. Elitism is the opposite of that.
Go back to single player games if you want to be elitist. Or go to fps games or RTS games and try to do esports and see if you really measure up to your inflated self-worth.

code65536 · September 2017

sevomd69 wrote: »

Why do you think it will change... it costs I believe 120 dwarven construct parts to make the test dummy from HoF...that is 120 runs of HoF...120... this is for an item that does not affect balance at all...

Not a fair comparison, because the 26M centurion dummy needs only 12. And the 51M one is something aimed at guilds, not individuals. A trials guild needs to complete HoF a mere 10 times to get the 120 needed for a guild dummy.