First look at the TRANSMUTION system

Betheny · September 2017

disintegr8 wrote: »

Not really sure what this means: " Transmute Crystals are an account wide, capped currency which cannot be banked or traded.""

Does this mean that rather than going in your inventory, they are like 'collectibles' that can be used by any character on your account without needing to go into the bank?
Or are they are locked to the character that earns them or can they in fact be put in your own bank for use by other characters?

If other people are like me, their master crafter is not their most accomplished dungeon/trial runner but a dedicated crafter, who for one reason or another, was simply set aside to learn and level crafting for the benefit of the rest of their characters. In my case this is a Breton Nightblade, the first character I ever made, and he has no place running vet dungeons!!

My guess is it gets counted account-wide and tallied as a number appearing somewhere at that special Transmutation Station, so no matter which character gets some it goes to that total that appears when you transmute. But is not bankable (as they stated) and cannot be traded (as they stated). It's basically just some number appearing when you go to transmute.

code65536 · September 2017

TheRealPotoroo wrote: »

Bouldercleave wrote: »

"Transmutation requires Transmute Crystals, precious resources occasionally received for successfully completing Veteran PvE activities such as Pledges, Trials, and Arenas, and several PvP sources such as Rewards for the Worthy, Battleground end of match rewards, and AvA end of campaign rewards. Transmute Crystals are an account wide, capped currency which cannot be banked or traded."

So what I'm reading is that if you mainly solo, "&(^% you"

This implementation is short-sighted and wrong in every way. I have well over 2,000 hours up in this game and I've never run a veteran dungeon. I have put a year of real time into getting my characters' crafting up to scratch and I want transmogrification and transmutation more than anything. The idea that transmutation crystals will only be available in vet dungeons and PvP horrifies me.

In that case, why do you care about transmutation? The trait on your weapons and armor doesn't matter unless you're doing endgame PvE or PvP. Which also happens to be the source of crystals.

Kneighbors · September 2017

So how many do you get from vet sungeon run?

Pele · September 2017

Bouldercleave wrote: »

"Transmutation requires Transmute Crystals, precious resources occasionally received for successfully completing Veteran PvE activities such as Pledges, Trials, and Arenas, and several PvP sources such as Rewards for the Worthy, Battleground end of match rewards, and AvA end of campaign rewards. Transmute Crystals are an account wide, capped currency which cannot be banked or traded."

So what I'm reading is that if you mainly solo, "&(^% you"

This is an MMO not a single player game. It's a game designed to be played with others.

Also, solo players aren't excluded at all because the activities that drop transmutation mats can be solo'd. Also also, MA is solo only.

TheRealPotoroo · September 2017

code65536 wrote: »

TheRealPotoroo wrote: »

Bouldercleave wrote: »

"Transmutation requires Transmute Crystals, precious resources occasionally received for successfully completing Veteran PvE activities such as Pledges, Trials, and Arenas, and several PvP sources such as Rewards for the Worthy, Battleground end of match rewards, and AvA end of campaign rewards. Transmute Crystals are an account wide, capped currency which cannot be banked or traded."

So what I'm reading is that if you mainly solo, "&(^% you"

This implementation is short-sighted and wrong in every way. I have well over 2,000 hours up in this game and I've never run a veteran dungeon. I have put a year of real time into getting my characters' crafting up to scratch and I want transmogrification and transmutation more than anything. The idea that transmutation crystals will only be available in vet dungeons and PvP horrifies me.

In that case, why do you care about transmutation? The trait on your weapons and armor doesn't matter unless you're doing endgame PvE or PvP. Which also happens to be the source of crystals.

I care because transmutation (like transmogrification) should first and foremost be about crafters, not end game players. ZoS have completely and horribly botched it.

Qbiken · September 2017

Kneighbors wrote: »

So how many do you get from vet sungeon run?

Think I read from someone that they got 1 crystal from doing vMA on the PTS. So at the moment I´m going to guess 1/run. At work so can´t really login and test.

Niobium · September 2017

TheRealPotoroo wrote: »

I care because transmutation (like transmogrification) should first and foremost be about crafters, not end game players.

It's there because players were having to run hundreds, if not thousands, of the same run to get the item they wanted. Crafters can already make whatever trait they want - they don't need to transmute their crafted gear.

SirCritical · September 2017

"code65536 wrote: »

would've preferred a system where the item was truly changed, rather than dressed in a new trait costume.

Especially because this 'trait-in-costume' system holds a huge amount of possible bugs in itself.

Changing a trait should need the trait-stone of the new trait, besides the obvious trait-knowledge.

Kneighbors · September 2017

Qbiken wrote: »

Kneighbors wrote: »

So how many do you get from vet sungeon run?

Think I read from someone that they got 1 crystal from doing vMA on the PTS. So at the moment I´m going to guess 1/run. At work so can´t really login and test.

From what I read in other posts yea.. it's 1 crystal per vet dungeon run.. that's really expensive if you ask me..

Qbiken · September 2017

Kneighbors wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

Kneighbors wrote: »

So how many do you get from vet sungeon run?

Think I read from someone that they got 1 crystal from doing vMA on the PTS. So at the moment I´m going to guess 1/run. At work so can´t really login and test.

From what I read in other posts yea.. it's 1 crystal per vet dungeon run.. that's really expensive if you ask me..

The system was not meant to remove the grind, but to ease it a little bit. And the chance that you get a desired weapon/armor/or whatever in 40 runs is "quite big" (disclaimer for RNG). I still think that ZOS will change the amount of crystals you can get from a run or the amount it takes to re-trait before the patch goes live.

TheRealPotoroo · September 2017

Niobium wrote: »

TheRealPotoroo wrote: »

I care because transmutation (like transmogrification) should first and foremost be about crafters, not end game players.

It's there because players were having to run hundreds, if not thousands, of the same run to get the item they wanted. Crafters can already make whatever trait they want - they don't need to transmute their crafted gear.

Non-endgame players benefit from appropriate traits too, we pick up dropped gear as well, there are lots of reasons and non-endgame people who would benefit from transmutation. Tying it to endgame fundamentally misses the point, which is that crafting is as much about altering the look and feel of armour and weapons as it is about creating them.

sevomd69 · September 2017

Kneighbors wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

Kneighbors wrote: »

So how many do you get from vet sungeon run?

Think I read from someone that they got 1 crystal from doing vMA on the PTS. So at the moment I´m going to guess 1/run. At work so can´t really login and test.

From what I read in other posts yea.. it's 1 crystal per vet dungeon run.. that's really expensive if you ask me..

On live its not even going to be 1 per run...patch notes state that they will "occaisionally" drop...no definitely drop...

Transmutation requires Transmute Crystals, precious resources occasionally received for successfully completing Veteran PvE activities such as Pledges, Trials, and Arenas, and several PvP sources such as Rewards for the Worthy, Battleground end of match rewards, and AvA end of campaign rewards. Transmute Crystals are an account wide, capped currency which cannot be banked or traded.

JKorr · September 2017

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

My question is does this consume a trait token in addition to the crystal? To be blunt do i need nirncruxv in inventory to transmute to nirnhoned?

@STEVIL It does not consume trait stones to transmute.

The transmutation also does not change the underlying item trait. Instead, it overrides the innate trait with a new one. This means that a transmuted item cannot be researched, and I expect that a deconned transmuted item will not yield trait stones of the overriding trait (though verification is needed).

On the technical side, ESO's itemization system gives every item/trait combination a separate item ID. For example:
71155: vMA fire staff, defending

71156: vMA fire staff, sharp

71162: vMA ice staff, sharp

So instead of all vMA fire staves sharing one ID and having the trait be a separate field, every possible trait for a vMA fire staff is its own separate ID.

When you transmute a defending fire staff into a sharp fire staff, this ID does not change. So instead of converting your item from a specimen of 71155 into a specimen of 71156, your item remains a specimen of 71155, but with an overriding trait applied that suppresses the original innate trait.

So if someone links a transmuted sharp item, you can look at its item ID and determine what the original innate trait of the item was (and still is).

It means that I can tell the difference between a "real" divines Skoria vs. a "doctored" divines Skoria, and for someone with a touch of OCD like me, that's rather irksome. I would've preferred a system where the item was truly changed, rather than dressed in a new trait costume.

@code65536

Good stuff so in theory this could bring about complaints on using one character to help create items for another character of the same account to research.

If no one has complained about crafters making items for alts to research by now, I doubt they will. I have 14 characters on one account. Two of them have all 9 traits researched. All the others are in various stages of finishing 8 trait research. My two main crafters make research items for my alts on this account, as well as the alts on my second account. There is nothing to complain about, really. Players have been able to do that from the beginning.

lelink88 · September 2017

Crystal also drop from Trial right? I wonder about drop rate in vet dungeon and trial! Maybe in next month we will see a lot of PvP player start runing trial on the first time lol

DMuehlhausen · September 2017

MissBizz wrote: »

Before I attempt to watch this at work, did you determine if they always drop from pledges, if they drop from just running a vet dungeon not via random group finder or a pledge? How many stones does a geode break into?

The annoucnement says occasionally so unless they make it part of the pledge system it's probably a chance from each boss like 25% and maybe 100% chance from the last boss with a 50% chance for two from the last boss. That's how a lot of systems do it.

Nebthet78 · September 2017

For those who don't follow the threads in the PTS part of the forum. Here is some information from Gina.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

The new Transmutation system is intended as a way to assist you in obtaining the trait you desire for your gear as you play, but not be the primary way to obtain it. You'll obtain Transmutation Crystals as you play the content you're already participating in, but it isn't meant to be something you get immediately. We want you to feel like you have a way to eventually get the trait you want.

As for the current drop rates (which are subject to change since we're on the PTS), you're guaranteed to receive Crystal(s) from the following sources:
Veteran Undaunted Pledge

Your first completed random Veteran dungeon through the Grouping Tool per day

Trial Weekly Quests

Leaderboards (AvA, Trials, Arenas, and Battlegrounds)

End of Campaign Rewards (both 7-day and 30-day)

Veteran Maelstrom Arena

Veteran Dragonstar Arena

Additionally, you also have a chance at obtaining Crystals from these sources:
Completing additional random Veteran dungeons through the Grouping Tool

Final bosses from Normal and Veteran dungeons

Rewards for the Worthy

Hope this helps clarify how this system works. Again, remember that we've only been on the PTS with this system for less than 24 hours, so we may further tweak everything before it goes live. Thanks for all the feedback thus far, and keep it coming!

TheTwistedRune · September 2017

Bouldercleave wrote: »

"Transmutation requires Transmute Crystals, precious resources occasionally received for successfully completing Veteran PvE activities such as Pledges, Trials, and Arenas, and several PvP sources such as Rewards for the Worthy, Battleground end of match rewards, and AvA end of campaign rewards. Transmute Crystals are an account wide, capped currency which cannot be banked or traded."

So what I'm reading is that if you mainly solo, "&(^% you"

Agreed. I understand that some in-game items, pets or skins should only be obtainable by doing group based content or PvP. But I don't understand why this feature is one of them.

They need to either put them in CS or make them obtainable by all PvE activities or in treasure chests or something.

TheTwistedRune · September 2017

Pele wrote: »

Bouldercleave wrote: »

"Transmutation requires Transmute Crystals, precious resources occasionally received for successfully completing Veteran PvE activities such as Pledges, Trials, and Arenas, and several PvP sources such as Rewards for the Worthy, Battleground end of match rewards, and AvA end of campaign rewards. Transmute Crystals are an account wide, capped currency which cannot be banked or traded."

So what I'm reading is that if you mainly solo, "&(^% you"

This is an MMO not a single player game. It's a game designed to be played with others.

Also, solo players aren't excluded at all because the activities that drop transmutation mats can be solo'd. Also also, MA is solo only.

“We don’t even use the term MMO with The Elder Scrolls Online anymore, because really it’s not,” game director Matt Firor says. “MMO was a term coined in 1997 with Ultima Online, EverQuest, and Dark Age of Camelot – we are not that game.”

Matt Firor 2016.

Gracous · September 2017

This is why my PVP toon is already researching traits. Just have to get him some motifs now!

code65536 · September 2017

TheRealPotoroo wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

TheRealPotoroo wrote: »

Bouldercleave wrote: »

"Transmutation requires Transmute Crystals, precious resources occasionally received for successfully completing Veteran PvE activities such as Pledges, Trials, and Arenas, and several PvP sources such as Rewards for the Worthy, Battleground end of match rewards, and AvA end of campaign rewards. Transmute Crystals are an account wide, capped currency which cannot be banked or traded."

So what I'm reading is that if you mainly solo, "&(^% you"

This implementation is short-sighted and wrong in every way. I have well over 2,000 hours up in this game and I've never run a veteran dungeon. I have put a year of real time into getting my characters' crafting up to scratch and I want transmogrification and transmutation more than anything. The idea that transmutation crystals will only be available in vet dungeons and PvP horrifies me.

In that case, why do you care about transmutation? The trait on your weapons and armor doesn't matter unless you're doing endgame PvE or PvP. Which also happens to be the source of crystals.

I care because transmutation (like transmogrification) should first and foremost be about crafters, not end game players. ZoS have completely and horribly botched it.

And I agree on a conceptual level--I had expected transmutation to be a crafting system, with crystals acquired via writ vouchers.

Instead, transmutation is about perfecting the traits on your gear, so that you can squeeze out those last few percent of power. But that kind of optimization isn't necessary for 99% of the game--my magicka characters do their questing in crafted Night's Silence armor (which, yes, is a stamina set) because in the general game, things like the utility of sneak speed is actually more useful.

Transmutation is the token system that people have asked for. Presented in a way that seems like crafting from the outside. But it's a token system. And even though I had initially expected this to be a crafting system, now that I see how they handled it, I think it makes more sense the way it is now. (Though some things like the crystal cap make absolutely no sense.)