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Joy's thoughts on Templars in Morrowind: they just aren't fun anymore
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Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭GallantGuardian wrote: »So think we will get any changes in this next patch they didn't touch us last patch
Coming from a tank perspective
I hope they give us some thing for tanking ...
I'd like an actual aoe cc that locks adds from moving for a time
And I'd like a better way to sustain my resources
I'd like to use gear that isn't selfish for my survivability and I can actually use sets that benefit the team
I feel bad for you and all the old school templar tanks.
There is not a single skill in the templar toolskit that makes me think, "Wow, this would be pretty neat on a tank."
No cc, no debuffs, lousy resource management, no soft control, etc., it's pretty sad for a class that supposedly has a scary "house" that enemies are worried about coming into.Make Rush of Agony "Monsters only." People should not be consecutively crowd controlled in a PvP setting. Period.6 -
Cinbri✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »GallantGuardian wrote: »So think we will get any changes in this next patch they didn't touch us last patch
Coming from a tank perspective
I hope they give us some thing for tanking ...
I'd like an actual aoe cc that locks adds from moving for a time
And I'd like a better way to sustain my resources
I'd like to use gear that isn't selfish for my survivability and I can actually use sets that benefit the team
I feel bad for you and all the old school templar tanks.
There is not a single skill in the templar toolskit that makes me think, "Wow, this would be pretty neat on a tank."
No cc, no debuffs, lousy resource management, no soft control, etc., it's pretty sad for a class that supposedly has a scary "house" that enemies are worried about coming into.
Well, there is some good news for oldfag Templars next update.0 -
GallantGuardian✭✭✭✭
But is there any tanking news .... I actually have stopped playing the game for the most part since morrowind... I was really upset with the changes to luminous shards and the fact everything was needed ... I'm hoping this update will bring me backJoy_Division wrote: »GallantGuardian wrote: »So think we will get any changes in this next patch they didn't touch us last patch
Coming from a tank perspective
I hope they give us some thing for tanking ...
I'd like an actual aoe cc that locks adds from moving for a time
And I'd like a better way to sustain my resources
I'd like to use gear that isn't selfish for my survivability and I can actually use sets that benefit the team
I feel bad for you and all the old school templar tanks.
There is not a single skill in the templar toolskit that makes me think, "Wow, this would be pretty neat on a tank."
No cc, no debuffs, lousy resource management, no soft control, etc., it's pretty sad for a class that supposedly has a scary "house" that enemies are worried about coming into.
Well, there is some good news for oldfag Templars next update.
1 -
DeHei✭✭✭✭✭try other playstyles and maybe you find fun again with that class
DeHei - EP Magicka Templar AllrounderDe Hei(Youtube)0 -
Kilandros✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Hatoreehanzo wrote: »I understand you love your Templar, but have you tried playing against them in PvP. How about a group of them? Most run some combo of Heavy Seducer, Reactive, Malubeth, Pirate, SnB nonsense with 100 into Blessed, permablock, mist and are a task and a half to kill.
Put it this way. For science, I ran 5 Reactive, 5 Alteration, 5 Pirate and it took an entire zerg to kill me. I don't want to "promote" my twitch with a link, but i'm sure you're savvy and can find my clip with my kiting them around. Unlimited resources to boot. Only way you die is if you're not paying attention or making a sandwich.
I see a lot of people thinking these changes are this and that, but honestly... I'll accept any type of fix towards progress with its current state or heavy armor ball zergs. Give me back 1.6.
Your twitch sounds like an absolute snoozefest if that's the type of PvP you engage in.Invictus
Kilandros - Dragonknight / Grand Overlord
Deimos - Templar / Grand Warlord
Sias - Sorcerer / PrefectZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Short answer is DKs likely won't be seeing a ton of changes before we go live; this class is still quite powerful (as it should be being a tank), even after some of the adjustments we've made to other classes and abilities.
DK IS NOT JUST A TANK CLASS. #PLAYTHEWAYYOUWANT5 -
Ashamray✭✭✭✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »GallantGuardian wrote: »So think we will get any changes in this next patch they didn't touch us last patch
Coming from a tank perspective
I hope they give us some thing for tanking ...
I'd like an actual aoe cc that locks adds from moving for a time
And I'd like a better way to sustain my resources
I'd like to use gear that isn't selfish for my survivability and I can actually use sets that benefit the team
I feel bad for you and all the old school templar tanks.
There is not a single skill in the templar toolskit that makes me think, "Wow, this would be pretty neat on a tank."
No cc, no debuffs, lousy resource management, no soft control, etc., it's pretty sad for a class that supposedly has a scary "house" that enemies are worried about coming into.
Well, there is some good news for oldfag Templars next update.
Huh? Which news?
@CinbriBoadrig, EU PC
Very Balanced
Battleground Beta Testers
Cite's Legacy
Colosseum
Imperial City frequenter
Imperial City feedback and suggestions0 -
maxjapank✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I have continued to play Templar and still find it competitive in pvp. I do see less offensive Templar's, but I do okay with mine.
As for the qq about Total Eclipse, I find it a very powerful skill. So much so, that it's a staple on my bars.. I use it both offensively and defensively. If shards had it's stun / disorient back, though, I'd likely run it instead. I rarely see anyone using shards anymore in pvp.1 -
DeHei✭✭✭✭✭As for the qq about Total Eclipse, I find it a very powerful skill. So much so, that it's a staple on my bars.. I use it both offensively and defensively.
Nice sarcasm
If shards had it's stun / disorient back, though, I'd likely run it instead. I rarely see anyone using shards anymore in pvp.
The skill is really helpful in groupplay, because of synnergy. But difficult to use without a good build, true.Edited by DeHei on September 14, 2017 4:32AMDeHei - EP Magicka Templar AllrounderDe Hei(Youtube)0 -
maxjapank✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
It wasn't sarcasm. I saw that you disagreed with the other poster who found Total Eclipse strong. And I guess that I'll have to go with his answer - To each their own.
But to those who haven't really tried it, I'd suggest to play around with it some in pvp. It can be very effective against anyone at range, whether it's to briefly take them out of the fight or to shut them down before charging into them. I don't know what else to say really, except I keep it on my off bar (staff bar) and use it all the time. But...To each their own.0 -
DeHei✭✭✭✭✭
It wasn't sarcasm. I saw that you disagreed with the other poster who found Total Eclipse strong. And I guess that I'll have to go with his answer - To each their own.
But to those who haven't really tried it, I'd suggest to play around with it some in pvp. It can be very effective against anyone at range, whether it's to briefly take them out of the fight or to shut them down before charging into them. I don't know what else to say really, except I keep it on my off bar (staff bar) and use it all the time. But...To each their own.
Ehm, no. The skill isnt useful. Only against range player its a strong option sometimes. How much player only play with range attacks? I just know some magicka sorcs and magicka nightblades, who do.
Compare that skill with that from NPCs at the flags... Its so much stronger.. like total Eclipse in the early game.
Templar really have better options then this...
DeHei - EP Magicka Templar AllrounderDe Hei(Youtube)0 -
maxjapank✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
It wasn't sarcasm. I saw that you disagreed with the other poster who found Total Eclipse strong. And I guess that I'll have to go with his answer - To each their own.
But to those who haven't really tried it, I'd suggest to play around with it some in pvp. It can be very effective against anyone at range, whether it's to briefly take them out of the fight or to shut them down before charging into them. I don't know what else to say really, except I keep it on my off bar (staff bar) and use it all the time. But...To each their own.
Ehm, no. The skill isnt useful...Templar really have better options then this...
Respectfully, this isn't a pissing contest. I find it useful and strong. You do not. And that's fine with me. I just want Templar's who haven't played around with it to make their own opinion about it. That is all.2 -
DeHei✭✭✭✭✭
It wasn't sarcasm. I saw that you disagreed with the other poster who found Total Eclipse strong. And I guess that I'll have to go with his answer - To each their own.
But to those who haven't really tried it, I'd suggest to play around with it some in pvp. It can be very effective against anyone at range, whether it's to briefly take them out of the fight or to shut them down before charging into them. I don't know what else to say really, except I keep it on my off bar (staff bar) and use it all the time. But...To each their own.
Ehm, no. The skill isnt useful...Templar really have better options then this...
Respectfully, this isn't a pissing contest. I find it useful and strong. You do not. And that's fine with me. I just want Templar's who haven't played around with it to make their own opinion about it. That is all.
ok, accept. Sry for that Edited by DeHei on September 14, 2017 6:17AMDeHei - EP Magicka Templar AllrounderDe Hei(Youtube)0 -
maxjapank✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
It wasn't sarcasm. I saw that you disagreed with the other poster who found Total Eclipse strong. And I guess that I'll have to go with his answer - To each their own.
But to those who haven't really tried it, I'd suggest to play around with it some in pvp. It can be very effective against anyone at range, whether it's to briefly take them out of the fight or to shut them down before charging into them. I don't know what else to say really, except I keep it on my off bar (staff bar) and use it all the time. But...To each their own.
Ehm, no. The skill isnt useful...Templar really have better options then this...
Respectfully, this isn't a pissing contest. I find it useful and strong. You do not. And that's fine with me. I just want Templar's who haven't played around with it to make their own opinion about it. That is all.
ok, accept. Sry for that
No worries. Much respect to my fellow Templar.
. 0 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I'll say this about eclipse and I've probably used the skill more than anyone one PC NA.
I don't like the skill because it's niche, expensive, gives free CC immunity, does not protect me against CC immune opponents, and does not defend me against the biggest threats of many opponents I come across (DKs, fellow templars, all stam melee [i.e. most]).
These are *a lot* of negative factors and drawbacks to contend with, and any ability that has that many better be *real good* and Eclipse, acknowledging it does have some useful attributes, is not. In a game where I can only slot 10 abilities, there are 10 other skills that are useful, do not have these drawbacks/conditions, and are useful against every opponent.
Reflect is situationally strong, but defensive posture is in just about every way better: it protects me against every opponent (rather than just one), it protects me all the time (rather than after I cast eclipse on a non CC immune target), it is "hidden" (vast majority of opponents do not see it whereas Eclipse is obnoxiously conspicuous), it performs a useful function even against non-ranged opponents (block cost reduction), and it actually CCs enemies (rather than granting them immunity). The one big advantage Eclipse has is that it doesn't require a specific weapon, but sword and shield synergizes so well with a templar that's not a big deal.
Why is the NPC version so troublesome to actually elicit forum posts to "fix" it while most templars are not impressed with their own version? Is it because the many of use who play templars every night have just ignored a hidden gem or is it because the original version of the skill, which was considered meh, was more potent?
This doesn't mean a templar can't have success with Eclipse. I've used it and won fights because of it. Rather, it means that for every fight eclipse helps me, there are 3 other fights another skill would help me more. If a templar slots eclipse, something is coming off the bar.
Skills unequivocally better than eclipse:- Honor the Dead
- Radiant Destruction
- Sunfire
- Purifying Ritual
- Channeled Focus
- Puncturing Sweeps
- Purifying Light
That leaves me with just three choices and I have no CC, no major sorcery, no mobility, no shield, no gap closer. And this isn't even considering excellent utility spells like Elemental Drain.
When I think back to the days when I used this skill against every opponent, I'm not sure if it was because the old version was as good as I remember or if me not using it is one of the reasons I am a better player today.
Edit: Those of you who like eclipse - Why in the world would you argue against people who are asking to BUFF or at least make the skill more versatile? I never quite understood that. It's like if you work in an office and most of your coworkers think you're underpaid and you're boss comes offering a raise and you're like, "No, it's all good. I believe I am getting more than adequately paid at this moment."Edited by Joy_Division on September 14, 2017 6:49AMMake Rush of Agony "Monsters only." People should not be consecutively crowd controlled in a PvP setting. Period.2 -
Cinbri✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
There is..."possibility" that in U16 we might stop singing requiem for Eclipse.Joy_Division wrote: »I'll say this about eclipse and I've probably used the skill more than anyone one PC NA.
I don't like the skill because it's niche, expensive, gives free CC immunity, does not protect me against CC immune opponents, and does not defend me against the biggest threats of many opponents I come across (DKs, fellow templars, all stam melee [i.e. most]).
These are *a lot* of negative factors and drawbacks to contend with, and any ability that has that many better be *real good* and Eclipse, acknowledging it does have some useful attributes, is not. In a game where I can only slot 10 abilities, there are 10 other skills that are useful, do not have these drawbacks/conditions, and are useful against every opponent.
Reflect is situationally strong, but defensive posture is in just about every way better: it protects me against every opponent (rather than just one), it protects me all the time (rather than after I cast eclipse on a non CC immune target), it is "hidden" (vast majority of opponents do not see it whereas Eclipse is obnoxiously conspicuous), it performs a useful function even against non-ranged opponents (block cost reduction), and it actually CCs enemies (rather than granting them immunity). The one big advantage Eclipse has is that it doesn't require a specific weapon, but sword and shield synergizes so well with a templar that's not a big deal.
Why is the NPC version so troublesome to actually elicit forum posts to "fix" it while most templars are not impressed with their own version? Is it because the many of use who play templars every night have just ignored a hidden gem or is it because the original version of the skill, which was considered meh, was more potent?
This doesn't mean a templar can't have success with Eclipse. I've used it and won fights because of it. Rather, it means that for every fight eclipse helps me, there are 3 other fights another skill would help me more. If a templar slots eclipse, something is coming off the bar.
Skills unequivocally better than eclipse:- Honor the Dead
- Radiant Destruction
- Sunfire
- Purifying Ritual
- Channeled Focus
- Puncturing Sweeps
- Purifying Light
That leaves me with just three choices and I have no CC, no major sorcery, no mobility, no shield, no gap closer. And this isn't even considering excellent utility spells like Elemental Drain.
When I think back to the days when I used this skill against every opponent, I'm not sure if it was because the old version was as good as I remember or if me not using it is one of the reasons I am a better player today.
Edit: Those of you who like eclipse - Why in the world would you argue against people who are asking to BUFF or at least make the skill more versatile? I never quite understood that. It's like if you work in an office and most of your coworkers think you're underpaid and you're boss comes offering a raise and you're like, "No, it's all good. I believe I am getting more than adequately paid at this moment."Edited by Cinbri on September 14, 2017 7:33AM0 -
maxjapank✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »I don't like the skill because it's niche, expensive, gives free CC immunity, does not protect me against CC immune opponents, and does not defend me against the biggest threats of many opponents I come across (DKs, fellow templars, all stam melee [i.e. most]).
It is expensive. I completely agree with that. But any CC will give immunity once broken. They can still be cc'd while Eclipse in on them. And what does protect you from CC immune opponents? I understand that Eclipse is basically useless against a DK and Melee. But as a Templar who lacks mobility except for Mist, I find Eclipse helpful to shut down range, force them to me, or let me get to them.Joy_Division wrote: »These are *a lot* of negative factors and drawbacks to contend with, and any ability that has that many better be *real good* and Eclipse, acknowledging it does have some useful attributes, is not. In a game where I can only slot 10 abilities, there are 10 other skills that are useful, do not have these drawbacks/conditions, and are useful against every opponent.
I haven't found that many drawbacks to Total Eclipse. I have substituted it with another skill at times, when my group is lacking something. But I'm always wishing I had it back on my bar. And rarely play without it.Joy_Division wrote: »Reflect is situationally strong, but defensive posture is in just about every way better: it protects me against every opponent (rather than just one), it protects me all the time (rather than after I cast eclipse on a non CC immune target), it is "hidden" (vast majority of opponents do not see it whereas Eclipse is obnoxiously conspicuous), it performs a useful function even against non-ranged opponents (block cost reduction), and it actually CCs enemies (rather than granting them immunity). The one big advantage Eclipse has is that it doesn't require a specific weapon, but sword and shield synergizes so well with a templar that's not a big deal..
Defensive posture tends to be what many Templar's run. But I prefer running with a destro offhand, duel sword main hand. So sword and board isn't an option for me. I find the ulti regen from using a staff easier, and I make use of both heavy and light attacks from range. It's one style of Templar play, I enjoy it, and it's been very effective.Joy_Division wrote: »If a templar slots eclipse, something is coming off the bar.
Skills unequivocally better than eclipse:- Honor the Dead
- Radiant Destruction
- Sunfire
- Purifying Ritual
- Channeled Focus
- Puncturing Sweeps
- Purifying Light
That leaves me with just three choices and I have no CC, no major sorcery, no mobility, no shield, no gap closer.
I use all of the above skills. I also use Mist and Toppling Charge. And I get Major sorcery from pots. In fact the only real space I have to play around with is my Eclipse. And as I mentioned before, if Shards had a stun or disorient back, I'd likely slot it over Eclipse.Joy_Division wrote: »Edit: Those of you who like eclipse - Why in the world would you argue against people who are asking to BUFF or at least make the skill more versatile?
I'm not arguing against anything. By all means, give me a buff to Eclipse. I'll happily take it. But I disagree with players telling others that it's a trash skill so don't put in on your bars. Some Templar's will surely find something better that works for them. And others like me have made Eclipse work well for them. And I think we are in agreement that having the stun/disorient back to shards would be appreciated.
All I know is that I have never been interested in playing another class. So many Templar's moved on when Morrowind came out. They switched to Wardens or other classes or quit the game. But I just can't give up playing a Templar so I take what's given to me and make it work. I have rarely seen any player feedback on Templar's come into reality unless it was people calling for nerfs. So I just don't know what else to say about asking for a buff...0 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Ugh. Giving Templars the NPC Eclipse would be a nightmare. Also I don't want to see the NPC version of Dragon Blood on DKs. But I'm all for useful buffs for all classes that struggle a bit. Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.1 -
DeHei✭✭✭✭✭Ugh. Giving Templars the NPC Eclipse would be a nightmare. Also I don't want to see the NPC version of Dragon Blood on DKs. But I'm all for useful buffs for all classes that struggle a bit.
Nobody want the NPC Eclipse, but maybe something between that and the much poorer real templar version DeHei - EP Magicka Templar AllrounderDe Hei(Youtube)0 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Ugh. Giving Templars the NPC Eclipse would be a nightmare. Also I don't want to see the NPC version of Dragon Blood on DKs. But I'm all for useful buffs for all classes that struggle a bit.
Nobody want the NPC Eclipse, but maybe something between that and the much poorer real templar version
Tbh - the current iteration of eclipse is only poor as it limited to shutting down sorcs and magblades.
If you´re playing a ranged projectile build going up against eclipse is just utterly frustrating as it has no counterplay associated.
I would not call it free cc immunity when your opponent is effectively locked out from attacking you at all (this goes for magblade) or stuck to using force pulse (insanely costinefficient).
It´s probably the most annoying cc out there atm.<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 501 -
DeHei✭✭✭✭✭Ugh. Giving Templars the NPC Eclipse would be a nightmare. Also I don't want to see the NPC version of Dragon Blood on DKs. But I'm all for useful buffs for all classes that struggle a bit.
Nobody want the NPC Eclipse, but maybe something between that and the much poorer real templar version
Tbh - the current iteration of eclipse is only poor as it limited to shutting down sorcs and magblades.
If you´re playing a ranged projectile build going up against eclipse is just utterly frustrating as it has no counterplay associated.
I would not call it free cc immunity when your opponent is effectively locked out from attacking you at all (this goes for magblade) or stuck to using force pulse (insanely costinefficient).
It´s probably the most annoying cc out there atm.
Sure its hard for magicka nightblades. In duells this doesnt matter, but in open world its a problem. Skills like the reflecting wing from DK or warden, 1H+S ult or other skills, which work for the own char are much more effective. The reflecting wing for example just need to be activated and reflects everything away from you. When you got attacked from 3+ people, you just can put one eclipse on one target. So maybe 3 magicka nightblades attack you, you just can interupt the damage from 1 of them for 4 seconds. After that he is CC immun. You get damage from 2 of them and 4 seconds are not long. Do you want to recast a skill, what dont save you against nearly every projectile for a very short duration compared with some other skills with reflect everything (maximum of 3 reflects i know). I say in a common open world fight you dont will get much more projectiles in 4 seconds... In my experience total dark isnt very useful for open world, only in duells against magicka sorcs and magicka nightblades, but i think they should better rework the skill then. I dont want to use a skill, which is just strong against 2 special enemys, so i dont want to use this ***!
I like skills, which are useful in most situations for several reasons.
DeHei - EP Magicka Templar AllrounderDe Hei(Youtube)2 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »I don't like the skill because it's niche, expensive, gives free CC immunity, does not protect me against CC immune opponents, and does not defend me against the biggest threats of many opponents I come across (DKs, fellow templars, all stam melee [i.e. most]).
It is expensive. I completely agree with that. But any CC will give immunity once broken. They can still be cc'd while Eclipse in on them. And what does protect you from CC immune opponents? I understand that Eclipse is basically useless against a DK and Melee. But as a Templar who lacks mobility except for Mist, I find Eclipse helpful to shut down range, force them to me, or let me get to them.Joy_Division wrote: »These are *a lot* of negative factors and drawbacks to contend with, and any ability that has that many better be *real good* and Eclipse, acknowledging it does have some useful attributes, is not. In a game where I can only slot 10 abilities, there are 10 other skills that are useful, do not have these drawbacks/conditions, and are useful against every opponent.
I haven't found that many drawbacks to Total Eclipse. I have substituted it with another skill at times, when my group is lacking something. But I'm always wishing I had it back on my bar. And rarely play without it.Joy_Division wrote: »Reflect is situationally strong, but defensive posture is in just about every way better: it protects me against every opponent (rather than just one), it protects me all the time (rather than after I cast eclipse on a non CC immune target), it is "hidden" (vast majority of opponents do not see it whereas Eclipse is obnoxiously conspicuous), it performs a useful function even against non-ranged opponents (block cost reduction), and it actually CCs enemies (rather than granting them immunity). The one big advantage Eclipse has is that it doesn't require a specific weapon, but sword and shield synergizes so well with a templar that's not a big deal..
Defensive posture tends to be what many Templar's run. But I prefer running with a destro offhand, duel sword main hand. So sword and board isn't an option for me. I find the ulti regen from using a staff easier, and I make use of both heavy and light attacks from range. It's one style of Templar play, I enjoy it, and it's been very effective.Joy_Division wrote: »If a templar slots eclipse, something is coming off the bar.
Skills unequivocally better than eclipse:- Honor the Dead
- Radiant Destruction
- Sunfire
- Purifying Ritual
- Channeled Focus
- Puncturing Sweeps
- Purifying Light
That leaves me with just three choices and I have no CC, no major sorcery, no mobility, no shield, no gap closer.
I use all of the above skills. I also use Mist and Toppling Charge. And I get Major sorcery from pots. In fact the only real space I have to play around with is my Eclipse. And as I mentioned before, if Shards had a stun or disorient back, I'd likely slot it over Eclipse.Joy_Division wrote: »Edit: Those of you who like eclipse - Why in the world would you argue against people who are asking to BUFF or at least make the skill more versatile?
I'm not arguing against anything. By all means, give me a buff to Eclipse. I'll happily take it. But I disagree with players telling others that it's a trash skill so don't put in on your bars. Some Templar's will surely find something better that works for them. And others like me have made Eclipse work well for them. And I think we are in agreement that having the stun/disorient back to shards would be appreciated.
All I know is that I have never been interested in playing another class. So many Templar's moved on when Morrowind came out. They switched to Wardens or other classes or quit the game. But I just can't give up playing a Templar so I take what's given to me and make it work. I have rarely seen any player feedback on Templar's come into reality unless it was people calling for nerfs. So I just don't know what else to say about asking for a buff...
What you say in this last paragraph I think epitomizes why you use eclipse: not because it's a great skill, but you "make it work," which is a nice way of saying you're dealing with stuff that's not quite as good or shiny as what other people are using and you get by.
Which is fine, but that does not invalidate the criticism against Eclipse that have been leveled by myself and others. Ok, it's not quite a "trash skill," but only one poster went as far to say that. The majority of us are saying it's niche, has weaknesses, and there are going to be 10 more powerful and useful skills to slot, abilities that do more than "get us by."
You ask what protects me against CC immune opponents, I'll tell you: defensive posture. OK, you don;t want to use sword and shield, well then you're stuck "getting by" with a spell that has real limitations and too many conditions that works only against specific foes.
You can't find any drawbacks? How about the fact that after 3.5 seconds, this skill cannot perform it's main function? That's a pretty big drawback I;d say, especially when the other reflects in the game: DK wings, Warden Shimmering Shield, defensive posture suffer no such disadvantage.
You're eschewing strong skills that work against every opponent like elemental drain, harness magicka, javelin, etc., just to run Eclipse and on top of that relying on pots just to get major sorcery (which is ridiculously expensive: every 45 seconds in combat in cyrodiil your popping a potion just to do decent damage). If that's not a problem for you and you're having fun, than by all means, knock yourself out and keep at it.
But just because you and some other templars make Eclipse work does not mean the ability has big problems and could use a major rework to make it an option that people who don't just play templars would be legit interested in using. And it's not.
I PvP and hardly anyone uses this against me. I PvE and I have only seen one person use this skill in over two years (and only then on stage 7 in DSA). The skill is not popular and there are reasons for that.Make Rush of Agony "Monsters only." People should not be consecutively crowd controlled in a PvP setting. Period.0 -
maxjapank✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@Joy_Division I get it. You don't like Eclipse, and you claim that you are the expert since you have used it more than anyone else. On the contrary, I think it is a good spell. But I think I need to backtrack on my answer. If shards had a stun / disorient, I would have a hard time choosing between it and eclipse. It would honestly be a hard choice for me. I find Eclipse pretty effective.
Personally, I think Total Dark is an underrated skill. I think it's gotten a bad rap from Templars who claim that they know better. I think that people who read the forums further get discouraged to use the skill. So I hope that more people will give it a try if they haven't. Figure out your play style and what works for you.
Defensive posture requires you to use a sword and shield and uses stamina. Eclipse lets you run a staff. And since we lack mobility, Eclipse can help deal with Sorcs, magcika nbs, and bow users who are free casting at you. As I said before, I find it useful to I shut down range, force them to me, or let me get to them. It does exactly what I need.
There really is no point to continuing a debate. I know from experience that all that happens is one claiming to know better than the other. And personally I've always found your responses to be a bit aggressive like that. So I'm going to bow my head from here and not follow this thread anymore. And hope that others will give skills a try first and make their own opinions about them.
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Tinus_92✭✭✭All I ask is to make pve magicka damage dealers competetitive again with other damage builds. We're fallen so far behind compared to sorcerers and even magDK's and NB's last patches we're forced to run another class to even play remotely competetive. While templar never has been on the top recently at least we were somewhat competetive to other classes pre-morrowind, and got behind on other classes each update since. Note that the single one damage build which WAS competetive also had to rely on puncturing sweeps, which is a melee move, thus making magicka templar damage dealers also not viable on ranged positions.
To tackle this issue, may it be an idea to make puncturing sweeps a ranged morph? > make the templar throw their spears away instead. A distance such as 15m should be enough. Perhaps that *fingers crossed* - MAYBE - can earn us a spot within a raiding team once again. Even with such a change, we'll still be lacking raw damage though. While I did put +35k Single Target at the One Tamriel update easily, I currently barely reach 30k even with an updated build, although we should have more CP now and all other classes have seen DPS increases since.
From what I've heard stamina classes are now actually on par with each other well, now bring magicka classes back a bit too and we should be settled. Not asking for having the strongest overpowered class, but at least make magicka templar DD competetive for pve once again.
The amount of attention being given to magicka PVE damage dealers even in a topic like this shows how rare this class currently still is. It's not even something being discussed anymore merely because no one even plays it. Everyone switched to heavy attack petsorc builds already.Edited by Tinus_92 on September 17, 2017 7:30PMIngame ID: @Suni_920 -
Neoauspex✭✭✭✭✭
✭There are definitely drawbacks to Eclipse, but last update I took Radiant Oppression off my bar and put Eclipse in its place. I find it very useful in siege situations, zerg v zerg situations, etc because you can throw it on multiple targets and you can protect squishy allies when you need people on a ram.
I love defensive posture too, but even though I run solo 90% of the time I still end up in so many situations where there's XvX and the enemy X targets everybody but me first. With Defensive Posture, I end up 1vX with a slightly better skill on my bar when what I really need is for that random CP120 nightblade to not have been 1-shot by Crystal Frags.
But the actual moral of my story is that I don't miss Radiant Oppression at all. The people that I used to kill with it still die when Purifying Light pops. The people that I couldn't kill with it (shield stacking Sorcs) get shut down by Eclipse.
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Cinbri✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭There are definitely drawbacks to Eclipse, but last update I took Radiant Oppression off my bar and put Eclipse in its place. I find it very useful in siege situations, zerg v zerg situations, etc because you can throw it on multiple targets and you can protect squishy allies when you need people on a ram.
I love defensive posture too, but even though I run solo 90% of the time I still end up in so many situations where there's XvX and the enemy X targets everybody but me first. With Defensive Posture, I end up 1vX with a slightly better skill on my bar when what I really need is for that random CP120 nightblade to not have been 1-shot by Crystal Frags.
But the actual moral of my story is that I don't miss Radiant Oppression at all. The people that I used to kill with it still die when Purifying Light pops. The people that I couldn't kill with it (shield stacking Sorcs) get shut down by Eclipse.
Just wait patchnotes.1 -
technohic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Is eclipse pretty much just restored to where it was before it only affected projectiles, but now we can cast it unlimited times?
Can't think of a reason to use solar barrage still. Pulsing could have been a nice touch without cast time, but to be in melee range and having to cast, I guess its good for NPCs? But wonder what they lose in their DPS to try to push that into a rotation
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