Get ready for double traited weapons. (Transmutation)

Yolokin_Swagonborn · September 2017

Hey guys,

Ready to run around in PvP with a Maelstrom weapon with ALL THE TRAITS? Will this even be possible? Let's do a quick history lesson.

Back when the twice born star gear set was released, we had several bouts of people getting multiple mundus stones (More than two or two without wearing the set). This exploit returned at least 3 more times as it was achieved by different means.

It was a blast in PvP and ZOS took their sweet time getting rid of it (and of course the people who abused this exploit never got punished because that's how we roll in ESO) Although they did "fix" it by making it impossible for you to see what mundus stones other people have (like you can see in the above picture). Out of sight, out of mind I guess. That's how you QA.

Then, when ZOS implemented race changes, we also suffered a bug where people were able to get multiple racial bonuses on one single character. Same story again. Reported to ZOS during PTS. ZOS ignores, pushes to live. People abused it. We post threads about it, they get censored. ZOS eventually fixes it.

This brings us to Transmutation. Do you think this bug will show up again? Are you ready to report multi-trait exploiters over and over again and watch them not get banned? Here's why I think it will return.

Two words: Regression Testing.

In the most general terms, regression testing in software means that when you make new stuff, you test that it works with the old stuff. But it also means that you test new stuff against common vulnerabilities that you know exist in your old code. As history has shown, regression testing isn't really a strong suite for ZOS. I have been able to discover bugs in this game just by taking knowledge of how existing bugs work and applying them to new situations. You would think that ZOS would patch the METHOD that allows the bug to work, not just stick some chewing gum on the specific instance of the bug. NOPE. Bandaid fix, call it a day, back to cranking out new content with the same vulnerabilities. Marketing budget >>>> QA budget.

So that takes us to this new Trait changing mechanic. Here's how I think it will go down.

At least one person will discover how to create an item with multiple trait stones on the PTS. They will report it
ZOS will ignore and push to live anyway (as per usual)
Someone will figure out how to do this and exploit it in PvP.
Someone else will use this in Maelstrom and RIP PvE leaderboards (again).
Long angry forum posts will happen asking ZOS to patch this immediately
Nothing will happen but the posts will get censored by the mods (under the pretense of not spreading how to perform the exploit, but mostly for damage control)
ZOS will fix this issue in about 3 months which is their standard time to fix a game breaking bug they knowingly let into the game after being notified in PTS.

What do you guys think? Maybe if we start the complaint threads now, we can get this issue fixed in a timely manner

dro_rasec · September 2017

If the system delete the old weapon and create a new one this shouldn't happen since two trait weapon/armor don't exist on the game code. But who knows, I'm not a programmer and we are speaking of ZOS

NewBlacksmurf · September 2017

They don't care.....look whose leading this

Look at Dark Age of Camelot years back....SOS just a diff game. The frequency of official statements which remark....we are looking into this....or comments like ....We are rolling out a patch or hotfix in attempt to address the reported issues...

For 3 years now....
Heck, these folks haven't even resolved the first major problem on xbox one at release. ESO Plus.......
Also they haven't resolved the underlying issue after the lighting update on PC.... crashing, memory leak and lag

I welcome this if it turns into a thing cause why not add more things to ruin the game for others.

Blacksmoke · September 2017

Its ZoS... of course this will happen! I can't wait!

zaria · September 2017

Will probably not be an issue, I assume trait is an simple reference as in an single integer value with trait ID.
No way to add an second trait as its no room for it.
Twice born star added support for two mundus stones, this require far more coding and an good chance of messing up in many ways.

Race change letting you keep the old racial passives sounds cool however but it would cost 30K for a full set

That would also use a lot of skill points.

Yolokin_Swagonborn · September 2017

Blacksmoke wrote: »

Its ZoS... of course this will happen! I can't wait!

Well maybe if we start reporting the bug now, it will get fixed in only ONE month after launch instead od th

zaria wrote: »

Will probably not be an issue, I assume trait is an simple reference as in an single integer value with trait ID.
No way to add an second trait as its no room for it.
Twice born star added support for two mundus stones, this require far more coding and an good chance of messing up in many ways.

Race change letting you keep the old racial passives sounds cool however but it would cost 30K for a full set
That would also use a lot of skill points.

Well I hope you are right but I'm starting the bug report now lol. By the time PTS hits, ZOS is very hesitant to make any changes. PTS isn't really a testing server, its a marketing server. What you see on PTS is usually what you get. So if we want ZOS to actually fix bugs before they make it to the game we need to report them BEFORE they hit PTS.

zaria · September 2017

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Blacksmoke wrote: »

Its ZoS... of course this will happen! I can't wait!

Well maybe if we start reporting the bug now, it will get fixed in only ONE month after launch instead od th

zaria wrote: »

Will probably not be an issue, I assume trait is an simple reference as in an single integer value with trait ID.
No way to add an second trait as its no room for it.
Twice born star added support for two mundus stones, this require far more coding and an good chance of messing up in many ways.

Race change letting you keep the old racial passives sounds cool however but it would cost 30K for a full set
That would also use a lot of skill points.

Well I hope you are right but I'm starting the bug report now lol. By the time PTS hits, ZOS is very hesitant to make any changes. PTS isn't really a testing server, its a marketing server. What you see on PTS is usually what you get. So if we want ZOS to actually fix bugs before they make it to the game we need to report them BEFORE they hit PTS.

Its not so much about competence level, more an issue in how little can go wrong.
And I have described competence level as in wiping repeatably on first trash in wayrest 1 normal.

Yolokin_Swagonborn · September 2017

zaria wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Blacksmoke wrote: »

Its ZoS... of course this will happen! I can't wait!

Well maybe if we start reporting the bug now, it will get fixed in only ONE month after launch instead od th

zaria wrote: »

Will probably not be an issue, I assume trait is an simple reference as in an single integer value with trait ID.
No way to add an second trait as its no room for it.
Twice born star added support for two mundus stones, this require far more coding and an good chance of messing up in many ways.

Race change letting you keep the old racial passives sounds cool however but it would cost 30K for a full set
That would also use a lot of skill points.

Well I hope you are right but I'm starting the bug report now lol. By the time PTS hits, ZOS is very hesitant to make any changes. PTS isn't really a testing server, its a marketing server. What you see on PTS is usually what you get. So if we want ZOS to actually fix bugs before they make it to the game we need to report them BEFORE they hit PTS.

Its not so much about competence level, more an issue in how little can go wrong.
And I have described competence level as in wiping repeatably on first trash in wayrest 1 normal.

I understand what you are saying. Its more about the opportunity for an error than the competancy of the programming team.

But wouldn't this also be a single value issue as well? There was a time were people were double enchanting weapon damage rings for an extra 900 or so weapon damage. Assuming that the game is programmed like a normal person would program it is a big mistake with this company.

SirAndy · September 2017

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Although they did "fix" it by making it impossible for you to see what mundus stones other people have. Out of sight, out of mind I guess.

This one is a classic and deserves a re-quote!

Alpheu5 · September 2017

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

zaria wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Blacksmoke wrote: »

Its ZoS... of course this will happen! I can't wait!

Well maybe if we start reporting the bug now, it will get fixed in only ONE month after launch instead od th

zaria wrote: »

Will probably not be an issue, I assume trait is an simple reference as in an single integer value with trait ID.
No way to add an second trait as its no room for it.
Twice born star added support for two mundus stones, this require far more coding and an good chance of messing up in many ways.

Race change letting you keep the old racial passives sounds cool however but it would cost 30K for a full set
That would also use a lot of skill points.

Well I hope you are right but I'm starting the bug report now lol. By the time PTS hits, ZOS is very hesitant to make any changes. PTS isn't really a testing server, its a marketing server. What you see on PTS is usually what you get. So if we want ZOS to actually fix bugs before they make it to the game we need to report them BEFORE they hit PTS.

Its not so much about competence level, more an issue in how little can go wrong.
And I have described competence level as in wiping repeatably on first trash in wayrest 1 normal.

I understand what you are saying. Its more about the opportunity for an error than the competancy of the programming team.

But wouldn't this also be a single value issue as well? There was a time were people were double enchanting weapon damage rings for an extra 900 or so weapon damage. Assuming that the game is programmed like a normal person would program it is a big mistake with this company.

Wasn't that just a visual error though? I thought the old enchant displayed but the numbers were never applied.

Kneighbors · September 2017

From what I learned you can't really predict ZoS simply because they like unrational decisions. That said I believe the frustrating surprise will come from where its not expected, like a sudden nerf or breaking a content which wasn't even planned to be affected by the patch.

paulsimonps · September 2017

Ever since it was announced its been nothing but doomsday predictors talking about it.....

Danksta · September 2017

I know nothing about coding but upon hearing about the re-trait system I immediately had this concern.

s7732425ub17_ESO · September 2017

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

zaria wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Blacksmoke wrote: »

Its ZoS... of course this will happen! I can't wait!

Well maybe if we start reporting the bug now, it will get fixed in only ONE month after launch instead od th

zaria wrote: »

Will probably not be an issue, I assume trait is an simple reference as in an single integer value with trait ID.
No way to add an second trait as its no room for it.
Twice born star added support for two mundus stones, this require far more coding and an good chance of messing up in many ways.

Race change letting you keep the old racial passives sounds cool however but it would cost 30K for a full set
That would also use a lot of skill points.

Well I hope you are right but I'm starting the bug report now lol. By the time PTS hits, ZOS is very hesitant to make any changes. PTS isn't really a testing server, its a marketing server. What you see on PTS is usually what you get. So if we want ZOS to actually fix bugs before they make it to the game we need to report them BEFORE they hit PTS.

Its not so much about competence level, more an issue in how little can go wrong.
And I have described competence level as in wiping repeatably on first trash in wayrest 1 normal.

I understand what you are saying. Its more about the opportunity for an error than the competancy of the programming team.

But wouldn't this also be a single value issue as well? There was a time were people were double enchanting weapon damage rings for an extra 900 or so weapon damage. Assuming that the game is programmed like a normal person would program it is a big mistake with this company.

This was only a visual error. Only one enchant actually applied to your stats.

Demycilian · September 2017

You know nothing, Yolokin Snow. In the latest AC thread someone took the time to explain how ZOS actually balance their game around bugs.

This forum.

grannas211 · September 2017

Doom and gloom. How do you guys handle real life?

Yolokin_Swagonborn · September 2017

s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

zaria wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Blacksmoke wrote: »

Its ZoS... of course this will happen! I can't wait!

Well maybe if we start reporting the bug now, it will get fixed in only ONE month after launch instead od th

zaria wrote: »

Will probably not be an issue, I assume trait is an simple reference as in an single integer value with trait ID.
No way to add an second trait as its no room for it.
Twice born star added support for two mundus stones, this require far more coding and an good chance of messing up in many ways.

Race change letting you keep the old racial passives sounds cool however but it would cost 30K for a full set
That would also use a lot of skill points.

Well I hope you are right but I'm starting the bug report now lol. By the time PTS hits, ZOS is very hesitant to make any changes. PTS isn't really a testing server, its a marketing server. What you see on PTS is usually what you get. So if we want ZOS to actually fix bugs before they make it to the game we need to report them BEFORE they hit PTS.

Its not so much about competence level, more an issue in how little can go wrong.
And I have described competence level as in wiping repeatably on first trash in wayrest 1 normal.

I understand what you are saying. Its more about the opportunity for an error than the competancy of the programming team.

But wouldn't this also be a single value issue as well? There was a time were people were double enchanting weapon damage rings for an extra 900 or so weapon damage. Assuming that the game is programmed like a normal person would program it is a big mistake with this company.

This was only a visual error. Only one enchant actually applied to your stats.

There was a way to double enchant flanking rings with gold enchants that was actually reflected in your stats. Unless the stat page difference was also a visual error. Point is that one value should override the other - even on a visual basis. If it doesn't than that leaves the possibility of a double effect. If not this example, then take a look at double racials. Why should have have ever happened if there was only room for one variable?

zaria · September 2017

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

zaria wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Blacksmoke wrote: »

Its ZoS... of course this will happen! I can't wait!

Well maybe if we start reporting the bug now, it will get fixed in only ONE month after launch instead od th

zaria wrote: »

Will probably not be an issue, I assume trait is an simple reference as in an single integer value with trait ID.
No way to add an second trait as its no room for it.
Twice born star added support for two mundus stones, this require far more coding and an good chance of messing up in many ways.

Race change letting you keep the old racial passives sounds cool however but it would cost 30K for a full set
That would also use a lot of skill points.

Well I hope you are right but I'm starting the bug report now lol. By the time PTS hits, ZOS is very hesitant to make any changes. PTS isn't really a testing server, its a marketing server. What you see on PTS is usually what you get. So if we want ZOS to actually fix bugs before they make it to the game we need to report them BEFORE they hit PTS.

Its not so much about competence level, more an issue in how little can go wrong.
And I have described competence level as in wiping repeatably on first trash in wayrest 1 normal.

I understand what you are saying. Its more about the opportunity for an error than the competancy of the programming team.

But wouldn't this also be a single value issue as well? There was a time were people were double enchanting weapon damage rings for an extra 900 or so weapon damage. Assuming that the game is programmed like a normal person would program it is a big mistake with this company.

Maelstrom weapons has two enchants so its support for it, still it would make more sense to make this an special effect like set bonuses rather than simple enchant, making them an set item with one item:) this would also let you change the standard enchant and keeping the special one.

paulsimonps wrote: »

Ever since it was announced its been nothing but doomsday predictors talking about it.....

this however makes sense, the crown store conspiracies was from the tinfoil is bis material group.

Megabear · September 2017

ZOS: "Fall is coming, and we know nothing".

Megabear · September 2017

grannas211 wrote: »

Doom and gloom. How do you guys handle real life?

By confronting challenges, like he is doing with this post.

Rohamad_Ali · September 2017

Now I'm in pre panic mode . Better draft that rage thread now and save it just in case ...

Yolokin_Swagonborn · September 2017

grannas211 wrote: »

Doom and gloom. How do you guys handle real life?

Have you ever heard of car insurance? People in real life have to do something called risk management. Risk management is the reason we have modern life.

Nestor · September 2017

It is not a normal game system to apply two Mundus stones to a character before TBC came out, TBC changed that. It is not a normal mechanic to change Race, until the Race Change Tokens came out. So, it is understandable that bugs surrounding this could have appeared.

However, we have been traiting items in the game since Alpha. This is nothing new. We are not able to apply two traits to an object, as there is only one trait slot to do so. So, the chances for two Trait effects to be present are quite low. TBC changed the Mundus mechanic, and who knows how many places character racial information is stored. As far as I can tell, the Trait for an item exists in a single place, on the item property sheet. Kind of hard to muck that up.

We will see once the PTS releases how this all works, but I can't see how two trait effects could be applied if there is only one slot to do so

Oreyn_Bearclaw · September 2017

paulsimonps wrote: »

Ever since it was announced its been nothing but doomsday predictors talking about it.....

@paulsimonps

In other news, the last 3 years of the forums have mostly been complaining about the problems with RNG. Making everyone happy is not possible.

Magdalina · September 2017

......why don't your work at Zenimax? Least they'd have ONE person capable of actual QA XD

Betheny · September 2017

The patch is dark and full of terrors.

Mettaricana · September 2017

Double trait gear sounds awesome

They should add double trait but allow second trait to be half strength of normal

Betheny · September 2017

Mettaricana wrote: »

Double trait gear sounds awesome

"double sharpened"...

Rohaus · September 2017

And now I have read it all... OP is seriously off his or her rocker.

Just when I think the forums can't get any lower...

Complaining about something conjured out of thin air... astonishing

Reverb · September 2017

You forget the part where, after ignoring reports for months, they pick and choose ( seemingly at random) people to ban for exploiting the bug.

This will include banning people who reported the problem through appropriate channels, and not banning people who bragged about exploiting it and openly taught others how to do so.

LiquidPony · September 2017

Megabear wrote: »

grannas211 wrote: »

Doom and gloom. How do you guys handle real life?

By confronting challenges, like he is doing with this post.

"By confronting creating imaginary challenges, like he is doing with this post."

FTFY.