Stop wearing NETCHES TOUCH

AbysmalGhul · September 2017

Who wouldn't want to be touched by a Netch? If i were a Netch, I'd touch me.

DPShiro · September 2017

maryriv wrote: »

dpencil1 wrote: »

rosendoichinoveb17_ESO wrote: »

Running netch touch does not mean that you should not use a pet (scamp does shock damage remember so it also gets buffed by this set).

@rosendoichinoveb17_ESO
This statement is false. I have personally tested it. Although pets do lightning damage, all of their damage comes from max magicka. Boosting spell damage, whether specifically lightning related or not, does nothing for pets.

WRONG, the sorc pet scales off of multiple variables from it's host not JUST max magicka.

He obviously meant 5/5 and VMA staff.

Completely false. The damage is only affected by mag Magicka, nothing else.

pdebie64b16_ESO · September 2017

Netch also improve light and heavy attacks, also 5x Netch 5x Spider Cultist 1x monster is a valid option, or 5x Netch 5x Julianos 1x monster. I dont use a target dummy but testing in the field and i have the feeling dps with sets like Netch, Julianos, Spider Cultist do more dps then Necropotence.

Ihatenightblades · September 2017

pdebie64b16_ESO wrote: »

Netch also improve light and heavy attacks, also 5x Netch 5x Spider Cultist 1x monster is a valid option, or 5x Netch 5x Julianos 1x monster. I dont use a target dummy but testing in the field and i have the feeling dps with sets like Netch, Julianos, Spider Cultist do more dps then Necropotence.

Well they dont.. And its a fact

supaskrub · September 2017

Ihatenightblades wrote: »

pdebie64b16_ESO wrote: »

Netch also improve light and heavy attacks, also 5x Netch 5x Spider Cultist 1x monster is a valid option, or 5x Netch 5x Julianos 1x monster. I dont use a target dummy but testing in the field and i have the feeling dps with sets like Netch, Julianos, Spider Cultist do more dps then Necropotence.

Well they dont.. And its a fact

Well i use Netch. Spider cultist and 1 piece kena on a spell damage stacking build... I could say there is not a lot in it between running a Julianos and Netch pet build but i would be lying, i consistently hit slightly harder with the netch/spider cultist combo. So thats one more of us to bring to the equation and its one more who were running his build long before Alcast posted about Netch's.

But forget all that, sure pet builds are good and easy mode for a lot of content, but they hog two bar slots, they die quite often, take an age to resummon and have a mind of their own at times, those points alone in my opinion make the build not viable for me.

So, if you want to be "that" guy who wants to swing Metas and have people follow YOUR undoubtedly yet very worthy advice rather than play the way THEY want, how THEY want and where THEY want then feel free to carry on with your almost "that is not the way to do it, this is how it must be done" type threads then carry on but I for one am not listening..

Beardimus · September 2017

What's with kicking off about what people want to run. Maybe people don't want to chase one setup, one BIS meta and push buttons like their fave streamer hero, they actually want to play and enjoy the game.

Most I know are happy the last patch opened up diversity (even if it fully didn't as some old setups still on top just by a lesser %)

Tyrion87 · September 2017

People farm and use Netch's Touch because... "Alcast said so!"

The whole farming thing started when he posted this build on his website. So people decided to drop their monster sets, vMA staves, trial jewelry/staves and started using Julianos + Netch. The problem is people follow (copy) builds of other players mindlessly without making proper amendments based on their skills/preferences/playstyle. And then they believe they have BiS setups. BiS is not only gear, but also skills, experience and proficiency in a given setup.

I refrain from saying this build is bad but maybe it works only for Alcast because every single sorc I know, including me, had really bad results with this setup. From the very beginning it was hard to believe for me that this could be better than only one 5pc set, full monster set, minor slayer from trial gear and vMA staff on backbar.

dpencil1 · September 2017

@maryriv
You're missing the point. Sure, crit chance, crit damage, penetration, these all boost overall pet damage as well. But spell damage does not, and therefore Netch's does not.

Masel · September 2017

Just to show some parses here:

2 Ilambris, 5 Netch, 4 Spinner:

#

2 Ilambris, 5 Necro, 4 Spinner:

dpencil1 · September 2017

@Masel92
22% from heavy attacks?? How many points do you put into Staff Expert? My usual % cobtribution is around 11%. You might try using Asayre's CP optimizer and see if you get better results. Usually it is less effective overall to dump a bunch of points in Staff Expert.

Also, you need to account for the variability of crit chance and Concussed uptime. Rng can make identically played parses 3-4k dps different, so these are potentially within the margin of error.

paulsimonps · September 2017

OK, yea we get it scamps pull higher DPS, we all know this, and no Netches vs Necro with a scamp does not differ much at all and its all based on player skill. Now let us also agree that, again, many people really hate the scamps, they are in the way a lot, they sometimes stop working, and as shown they sometimes teleport out of the fricking arena. They can also get you killed in end game Trial fights. So its perfectly ok to not have a scamp, some don't like to swap gear from fight to fight and if you don't like the scamp Netches is the best option for you. So stop the hate and just agree that many people don't want to run the scamp for one reason or another, and some have tactical reasoning behind it.

I will also say, as a tank in something like vDSA there is nothing fricking worse than a scamp. They run of to spawn points and keeps mobs away from the stack I am trying to pull, most of the times out of range of my Chains or Taunt. Forcing me have to chase after Melee mobs that would usually just run to us, and Ranged mobs that target the scamps right of the bat are even further away. So I usually very kindly ask people to put it away in vDSA, more AoE Damage or not, it wastes time if I have to go chase mobs like that.

dpencil1 · September 2017

@paulsimonps
The problem of scamps stunning mobs far away is more of an issue for console players. A smart pet Sorc on PC can do a number of things to prevent this situation, in vDSA or wherever:
1. Set pets to inactive between pulls, so they engage when you start heavy attacking the stacked mobs
2. Wait to use the Familiar's Pulse until all mobs are stacked (this can work on console too)
3. If a pet does go off to chase some random mob, redirect it to a mob in the stack (also works on console)

So it's less an issue with having pets at all and more about people not learning to manage them properly.

paulsimonps · September 2017

dpencil1 wrote: »

@paulsimonps
The problem of scamps stunning mobs far away is more of an issue for console players. A smart pet Sorc on PC can do a number of things to prevent this situation, in vDSA or wherever:
1. Set pets to inactive between pulls, so they engage when you start heavy attacking the stacked mobs
2. Wait to use the Familiar's Pulse until all mobs are stacked (this can work on console too)
3. If a pet does go off to chase some random mob, redirect it to a mob in the stack (also works on console)

So it's less an issue with having pets at all and more about people not learning to manage them properly.

Yea, people keep saying all these things, but do you know how many sorcs actually DO any of that? VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY FEW!

Dantaria · September 2017

Netch Touch is BiS for non-pet sorc, you honestly don't need Alcast if you have any experience on sorc to tell that. Your damage is easily 75%+ shock since you're wearing 2 lightning staffs (if you don't, you're still stuck in Homestead

).

However in current patch non-pet sorc does s**t sustainable damage. I don't buy 35k+ parses on target dummy, sorry. You're either overpenetrate like @Masel92 or burst. 35k+ solo parse on non-pet sorc on 6kk skeleton with honest penetration, please.

If you want to deal good damage on sorc, it's only pets. Learn to control them, no way around it now.

paulsimonps wrote: »

But as someone else said before, that 5k DPS lose is accepted with in fights where the scamp can cause harm or become useless or hard to get to the right spot. Fights like the Mage, Warrior, Serpent, Assembly General, Trio before the General and Maws twins. In some of these fights you can use them, but they can either be harder to control or be a danger to the group, or die a lot, so many prefer to discard them completely when those fights come up.

1) Twins: Y + LMB when you return to your original boss. No HA on adds until they are stacked. Problem solved.

2) Assembly General: Y + RMB when first arm goes off. Y + RMB when you jump down. Problem solved.

3) Mage: when two people stack together "model in model" game counts them as one. Problem solved.

4) Honestly see 0 problems in Warrior and Serpent fights by definition.

5) Trio before the General: L2Y+RMB in time.
Now, consols are different story. I honestly don't know if people on console have any way to control pet. If they don't - well, ***. Vehemently blame ZoS.

Apherius wrote: »

Meld777 wrote: »

Pets are good on target dummies. But whenever you really need that extra DPS from pet in a boss fight, the pet is gonna chill on the closest mountain, or tree, or just hang in the air on Selene because when the spider web disappears, the pet ignores gravity.

Just watch him. In case of trouble: C => RMB on "Volatile Familiar" => Resummon. Problem solved.

Pet is more than 5k in trial environment. And we, sorcs, got nerfed hard twice with Morrowind and HotR. So... sorry. For serious DPS it's pet or gtfo. Thanks, ZoS

Avnr · September 2017

I RUN 5 SEDUCER - 5 HEALER - MAELSRTOM DESTRO RESTO - 32K DPS - INFINITY MAGICKA

SRY MY CAPS LOCK BROKEN

dpencil1 · September 2017

paulsimonps wrote: »

dpencil1 wrote: »

@paulsimonps
The problem of scamps stunning mobs far away is more of an issue for console players. A smart pet Sorc on PC can do a number of things to prevent this situation, in vDSA or wherever:
1. Set pets to inactive between pulls, so they engage when you start heavy attacking the stacked mobs
2. Wait to use the Familiar's Pulse until all mobs are stacked (this can work on console too)
3. If a pet does go off to chase some random mob, redirect it to a mob in the stack (also works on console)

So it's less an issue with having pets at all and more about people not learning to manage them properly.

Yea, people keep saying all these things, but do you know how many sorcs actually DO any of that? VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY FEW!

Sure. I am one of the few who does try to manage my pets carefully. But if you're playing with a group of experienced friends, it shouldn't be an issue eithier, as the Sorc will likely care more about trying not to make your job harder. It's more of a problem with PUGs. So have a 3 strikes rule, where you explain at the beginning: "If you stun a mob outside of the stack 3 times, you need to swap to a non-pet build or at least just use the Twilight." And if they ask how they can keep doing that, then you walk them through the steps I listed. IMO, that solves the problem.

paulsimonps · September 2017

dpencil1 wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

dpencil1 wrote: »

@paulsimonps
The problem of scamps stunning mobs far away is more of an issue for console players. A smart pet Sorc on PC can do a number of things to prevent this situation, in vDSA or wherever:
1. Set pets to inactive between pulls, so they engage when you start heavy attacking the stacked mobs
2. Wait to use the Familiar's Pulse until all mobs are stacked (this can work on console too)
3. If a pet does go off to chase some random mob, redirect it to a mob in the stack (also works on console)

So it's less an issue with having pets at all and more about people not learning to manage them properly.

Yea, people keep saying all these things, but do you know how many sorcs actually DO any of that? VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY FEW!

Sure. I am one of the few who does try to manage my pets carefully. But if you're playing with a group of experienced friends, it shouldn't be an issue eithier, as the Sorc will likely care more about trying not to make your job harder. It's more of a problem with PUGs. So have a 3 strikes rule, where you explain at the beginning: "If you stun a mob outside of the stack 3 times, you need to swap to a non-pet build or at least just use the Twilight." And if they ask how they can keep doing that, then you walk them through the steps I listed. IMO, that solves the problem.

To be honest, even many of the end game Sorcs that I play with that have completed stuff like vMaw or vHoF don't bother using their scamp correctly, many just drop and forget them and activate them as part of a rotation, ignoring where it is. Friends, guildies, and pugs a like, its a drop and forget skill for most.

Waseem · September 2017

1) trial bosses are not dps dummy

2)in raid you cast your pet every other rotation because it died or have to call it because its attacking wrong target, or it got stuck somewhere where you have to re-summon it after u realize its been gone for 5 minutes

netch is decent set as all the skills you can set would be lightning except haunting curse, and it does the best damage on execute by having a fully buffed rotation.. for trials like vhof its just the best

and let's be honest here, your clothes effect on your dps is less than 2% -,- its all up to how you play and what you do in the group..

you can replace bound aeges for scamp on aoe phases like vmol "trash pulls"

and this patch in compartion to previous ones,, its play how you want !!!!!!!!!!!
traits with less power creep, sets with less power creep.. best what happened in ESO yet.

paulsimonps · September 2017

Dantaria wrote: »

Netch Touch is BiS for non-pet sorc, you honestly don't need Alcast if you have any experience on sorc to tell that. Your damage is easily 75%+ shock since you're wearing 2 lightning staffs (if you don't, you're still stuck in Homestead ).

However in current patch non-pet sorc does s**t sustainable damage. I don't buy 35k+ parses on target dummy, sorry. You're either overpenetrate like @Masel92 or burst. 35k+ solo parse on non-pet sorc on 6kk skeleton with honest penetration, please.

If you want to deal good damage on sorc, it's only pets. Learn to control them, no way around it now.

paulsimonps wrote: »

But as someone else said before, that 5k DPS lose is accepted with in fights where the scamp can cause harm or become useless or hard to get to the right spot. Fights like the Mage, Warrior, Serpent, Assembly General, Trio before the General and Maws twins. In some of these fights you can use them, but they can either be harder to control or be a danger to the group, or die a lot, so many prefer to discard them completely when those fights come up.

1) Twins: Y + LMB when you return to your original boss. No HA on adds until they are stacked. Problem solved.

2) Assembly General: Y + RMB when first arm goes off. Y + RMB when you jump down. Problem solved.

3) Mage: when two people stack together "model in model" game counts them as one. Problem solved.

4) Honestly see 0 problems in Warrior and Serpent fights by definition.

5) Trio before the General: L2Y+RMB in time.
Now, consols are different story. I honestly don't know if people on console have any way to control pet. If they don't - well, ***. Vehemently blame ZoS.

Apherius wrote: »

Meld777 wrote: »

Pets are good on target dummies. But whenever you really need that extra DPS from pet in a boss fight, the pet is gonna chill on the closest mountain, or tree, or just hang in the air on Selene because when the spider web disappears, the pet ignores gravity.

Just watch him. In case of trouble: C => RMB on "Volatile Familiar" => Resummon. Problem solved.

Pet is more than 5k in trial environment. And we, sorcs, got nerfed hard twice with Morrowind and HotR. So... sorry. For serious DPS it's pet or gtfo. Thanks, ZoS

Like I said earlier, sorry missed your comment. It does require you to actually do so, many people, even end game players that have completed the hardest of Trials think of this skill as drop and forget. Oh and if you do a heavy attack it will now redirect the scamp, its easy enough but most people do not bother, sure heavy attack rotations do this better but it does not always works. Also for the Serpent, the Worldshaper attack will instantly kill them and that attack happens a lot. And on the Warrior, the Star fall drops on the scamps too causing more AoEs to be around to boss forcing people to spread out more.

So yea, again there are fixes, but getting people to actually do them..... good luck with that.

Fang_of_Lorkhaj · September 2017

._. I have juli necro. Hi five anyone?..... No?

Asardes · September 2017

Apherius wrote: »

Wrecking_Blow_Spam wrote: »

Sounomi wrote: »

I find it quite amusing how when I made my sorc 2 years ago, the class was considered the bottom of the barrel and no one wanted to play it while the pets were completely useless except for some solo meat shields. Now its like all of the elite min/maxers are playing the class and demanding all sorcs use pets. Funny how things can change.

Feel the same way, now when I play my sorc, to every average joe I'll look just like any other meta player.

Was fun getting flawless conqueror as a VR16 without using pets, now ppl can faceroll VMA with those pets.

Yep

At least the little scamp gives Major Clap and Major Cheer bonuses as you blast trough the little Dwemer constructs. Personally I've found this arena to be laughably easy. Everything but the last 3 centurions dies from 1 heavy or light attack and one force pulse

Asardes · September 2017

Merlin13KAGL · September 2017

Avnr wrote: »

I RUN 5 SEDUCER - 5 HEALER - MAELSRTOM DESTRO RESTO - 32K DPS - INFINITY MAGICKA

SRY MY CAPS LOCK BROKEN

@Avnr

then here...

Mondini · September 2017

I've only ever met 1 pet sorc that wasn't a complete idiot and liability. OP, you sound like a liability.

Feanor · September 2017

I just don't know how you can sustain as non-pet Sorc without dropping SD enchants for cost reduction...

Merlin13KAGL · September 2017

about 50% heavy attacks...

Masel · September 2017

dpencil1 wrote: »

@Masel92
22% from heavy attacks?? How many points do you put into Staff Expert? My usual % cobtribution is around 11%. You might try using Asayre's CP optimizer and see if you get better results. Usually it is less effective overall to dump a bunch of points in Staff Expert.

Also, you need to account for the variability of crit chance and Concussed uptime. Rng can make identically played parses 3-4k dps different, so these are potentially within the margin of error.

I've done hours of testing and it always was like this. These are 6m Dummies, and all of my testings showed 1k less DPS with Necro over Netches touch. I had 23 points in staff expert.

Feanor · September 2017

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

about 50% heavy attacks...

Sure. But if you're going to do that anyway going pet Sorc is way more effective and a lot easier.

Masel · September 2017

Dantaria wrote: »

Netch Touch is BiS for non-pet sorc, you honestly don't need Alcast if you have any experience on sorc to tell that. Your damage is easily 75%+ shock since you're wearing 2 lightning staffs (if you don't, you're still stuck in Homestead ).

However in current patch non-pet sorc does s**t sustainable damage. I don't buy 35k+ parses on target dummy, sorry. You're either overpenetrate like @Masel92 or burst. 35k+ solo parse on non-pet sorc on 6kk skeleton with honest penetration, please.

If you want to deal good damage on sorc, it's only pets. Learn to control them, no way around it now.

paulsimonps wrote: »

But as someone else said before, that 5k DPS lose is accepted with in fights where the scamp can cause harm or become useless or hard to get to the right spot. Fights like the Mage, Warrior, Serpent, Assembly General, Trio before the General and Maws twins. In some of these fights you can use them, but they can either be harder to control or be a danger to the group, or die a lot, so many prefer to discard them completely when those fights come up.

1) Twins: Y + LMB when you return to your original boss. No HA on adds until they are stacked. Problem solved.

2) Assembly General: Y + RMB when first arm goes off. Y + RMB when you jump down. Problem solved.

3) Mage: when two people stack together "model in model" game counts them as one. Problem solved.

4) Honestly see 0 problems in Warrior and Serpent fights by definition.

5) Trio before the General: L2Y+RMB in time.
Now, consols are different story. I honestly don't know if people on console have any way to control pet. If they don't - well, ***. Vehemently blame ZoS.

Apherius wrote: »

Meld777 wrote: »

Pets are good on target dummies. But whenever you really need that extra DPS from pet in a boss fight, the pet is gonna chill on the closest mountain, or tree, or just hang in the air on Selene because when the spider web disappears, the pet ignores gravity.

Just watch him. In case of trouble: C => RMB on "Volatile Familiar" => Resummon. Problem solved.

Pet is more than 5k in trial environment. And we, sorcs, got nerfed hard twice with Morrowind and HotR. So... sorry. For serious DPS it's pet or gtfo. Thanks, ZoS

Why would you assume i overpenetrate? Using the lover is perfectly fine, i just switch to apprentice in 12-man raids where i know that the buffs are going to be there enough.

Why wouldnt you buy the parses? It is sustainable damage, i'd like to see someone else do better than that selfbuffed on a 6m dummy and finish with more than 10% magicka left.

Mine weren't non-pet parses...

Dantaria · September 2017

Masel92 wrote: »

Why would you assume i overpenetrate? Using the lover is perfectly fine, i just switch to apprentice in 12-man raids where i know that the buffs are going to be there enough.

Ah, yeah, sorry, 4 Spinners. My bad, brainfarted for a second.

Point still stands though. Would like to see honest non-pet sorc 35k+ on 6kk in HotR. Alas - don't think I would.