Crafting materials harvesting - improvement suggestion (also for world chests)

Lypheja · August 2017

I"ve been submitting ingame feedback with improvement suggestion about the all-present-all-over-Tamriel " harvest cherry-picking trolls" for a long while now.

Harvesting nodes- i mean - (Anscestors) Silk/ (Rubedite) Ore/ (Ruby Ash) Wood/ Flowers(alchemy materials)/ Runes (enchanting materials)

Every now and then I run across as angry people as me that ask in zone chat whoever left trash like - crawlers or worms or only TA rune in harvesting nodes, to pick them up too, as the node wont respawn and to be very honest, it ruins my small runs (or anyones small run into the wild to replenish some stock) if i have not enough mats for crafting something.

My honest improvement suggestion - please make looting of harvesting nodes obligational.
That way anything, except stealing of course, you access would instantly send items to your inventory (IF you dont have ESO+) or into your crafting bag ( IF you have ESO+).
And if inventory is full then you simply cant claim anything from the harvest node, empty your inventory first. This sounds fair. Not the ability to cherry pick whatever is good and leave whatever noone ever uses or also doesnt need behind.

At some point I asked people in zone chat to pick up worms as i ran into yet another harvest silk node that had only worms in it and I even got a reply from a player saying he leaves it for "fishermen" there. How does this make sense to anyone? If i see silk harvest node i want the silk inside not JUST worms. I expect to find silk inside, not JUST worms.

Some may say I can buy materials from others. Yes, true, but I am earning my coin for other purposes and Im free to harvest what I need. I can dedicate some time along the week just to go and harvest things im thinking im running low on. I really dont want it to be ruined by people that leave things for "firshermen". System we have also allows people to pick special furniture crafting materials out of harvesting nodes without taking actual crafting material. While its better than finding only worms inside it still is sort of expoiting the existing cherry picking system we have and yes, makes collecting both silk/wood/ore less fun as I cant afterwards craft any furniture for myself or friends.

This applies to world chests too. I run across world chests that are just open and full of trash items(such as traitless white weapon/armor piece or traitless green weapon/armor piece only).
I understand everyone wants to find paintings for their houses and specific set-pieces (as do I), but if they cant be decent about it then developers should be by making any world chest looting obligational. So as soon as you access world chest you either get everything in your inventory or nothing cause you dont have enough free space in your inventory.
Also what would help solve this --- is timer on a chest (that was opened by someone and left with trash stuff in it) if you dot want to make it obligational looting. Make it respawn in 30 seconds or 3-5 minutes please. That way half empty chest or mostly empty chest wont be a problem anymore for explorers and it wont spoil their gaming experience.

Please look into this and improve harvesting for us and world chests. It would be much appreciated, not just by me Im sure.

P.S. I do pay for ESO+ for my craft bag, but not to pick someone elses worms/crawlers/trash on my way just cause I have the "craft bag". Even when I didn't have it, I picked worms and crawlers up. I also never left an open world chest standing there with trash to spoil someones fun and joy of discovery of a world chest.

JKorr · August 2017

Honestly I just chuckle when I pick up a node that has worms/crawlers only in it. Apparently whoever left it doesn't know how much some players are willing to spend for fishing bait. People should take everything in a node or chest, but sometimes it isn't bad when they don't.

I have done /feedback regarding setting up a rune exchange scheme with the Mages's guild; exchange X number of white Ta runes for a Jejota, X+ number of Ta runes for a Denata, X++ number of Ta runes for a Rekuta, X+++ number of Ta runes for a Kuta..... I do always take them, but Akatosh knows the only use they have is for normal level writs. I have never had another player ask me to make them a glyph with a Ta..... I have over 3k of the suckers.

STEVIL · August 2017

@Lypheja

as the node wont respawn and to be very honest

Have youvtested this and proved it?

I ask bc lots of the more devoted farmer crafters have ssid tests confirm it does not work this way?

Lucasalex92 · August 2017

They could also i guess add more traits and more herbs giving different stats or combinations pots and poisons where u need like 6 things to make purple or golden food or potion!

As to nodes yes they should make it but also they should make gnt gods more generous or equally generous as there is big gap between players who always get potent nirn stone and those who don't even get armour one !

Lypheja · August 2017

STEVIL wrote: »

@Lypheja

as the node wont respawn and to be very honest

Have youvtested this and proved it?

I ask bc lots of the more devoted farmer crafters have ssid tests confirm it does not work this way?

Im a devoted crafter that enjoys crafting. I dont farm and have little respect for farmers. I get my own mats and never more than i require.

Not program savvy to get the ssid tests running and forgive me for not streaming how i see people access the nodes and run off leaving wood/ore/runes/crawlers/worms/chests standing and when i access them after them - all I find is trash.
Those things dont respawn. Otherwise I would not run into nodes with just crawlers or nodes with just wood or runes with just TA/Makko during my play time or report this as an exploit of cherry-picking system we have and ask for improvement.

If ZOS would put up their own legit test, they would see just how many people exploit this.

Agree with Lucasalex92

Lypheja · August 2017

JKorr wrote: »

Honestly I just chuckle when I pick up a node that has worms/crawlers only in it. Apparently whoever left it doesn't know how much some players are willing to spend for fishing bait. People should take everything in a node or chest, but sometimes it isn't bad when they don't.

I have done /feedback regarding setting up a rune exchange scheme with the Mages's guild; exchange X number of white Ta runes for a Jejota, X+ number of Ta runes for a Denata, X++ number of Ta runes for a Rekuta, X+++ number of Ta runes for a Kuta..... I do always take them, but Akatosh knows the only use they have is for normal level writs. I have never had another player ask me to make them a glyph with a Ta..... I have over 3k of the suckers.

Yeap. I have over 6k TA runes sitting in craft bag. And great suggestion. Exchange option would be very nice.

About world chests - Depends.
You know if someone opens a world chest - they do take gold away for sure. For starter players gold isnt easy so running into chests without gold and full only with traitless armor or wrong set-wrong trait item is a huge bummer. Even for me is a frustrating bummer. I have Treasure Hunter, so if i do happen to run across a chest id expect something "okay" in it, not leftovers.

code65536 · August 2017

Chests will despawn after several minutes once someone has interacted with the lockpicking mechanism.

Nodes will despawn after several minutes once someone has opened them.

Leaving trash in nodes and chest does not prevent them from despawning. All that they do is inconvenience other people who stop to harvest only to find trash. So it's inconsiderate to leave trash, but every time someone claims that it prevents despawn/respawn, they are absolutely incorrect.

And what a mountain out of a molehill. Partial nodes are a nuisance that, if you read what people say in zone and on the forums, apparently portend the end of the world.

STEVIL · August 2017

Lypheja wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

@Lypheja

as the node wont respawn and to be very honest

Have youvtested this and proved it?

I ask bc lots of the more devoted farmer crafters have ssid tests confirm it does not work this way?

Im a devoted crafter that enjoys crafting. I dont farm and have little respect for farmers. I get my own mats and never more than i require.

Not program savvy to get the ssid tests running and forgive me for not streaming how i see people access the nodes and run off leaving wood/ore/runes/crawlers/worms/chests standing and when i access them after them - all I find is trash.
Those things dont respawn. Otherwise I would not run into nodes with just crawlers or nodes with just wood or runes with just TA/Makko during my play time or report this as an exploit of cherry-picking system we have and ask for improvement.

If ZOS would put up their own legit test, they would see just how many people exploit this.

Agree with Lucasalex92

You misunderstand.

What more than a few folks have observed sitting and testing is... They do respawn.

They do.

In fact they redrawn just as fast as the ones that are emptied.

See, your so called case listed in bold... Is b's.

If the taker had emptied the node, it would have vanished and at some point later respawn

If the leave worms, it does not vanish but will remain in place with the remaining stuff.

But after the same amount of time, it will respawn or more correctly refill.

Just like if it had been emptied.

The only real difference is whether you can get some stuff between it being first looted.

The failure in your logic is akin to the classic "missing bullet math" issue from ww2. You see full node. You see partial nodes but because fully looted nodes vanish you cannot draw conclusions on only what you see anymore than counting bullet holes for armor.

That's why asking have you tested this , you imagined I guess that test somehow equals posting videos, is valid.

I have not tested it recently so I cannot say it is currently true but from my experience the respawn/refill does not depend on whether it was empty or not.

STEVIL · August 2017

I will say tho, this may be the first time I have seen not taking everything you "earned" or "won" as an exploit.

"I left stuff for others"... EXPLOITER EXPLOITER EXPLOITER .

funny!!!

Lypheja · August 2017

Reading feedback is nice.

Question for @code65536 is there proof that any node respawns no matter if full or empty or half empty?
Uh bit trash/insects by bit - yeah, sounds like the end of the world once rage reaches a certain point.
Id suggest a new improvement then - 30 seconds/1minute despawns or something.

@STEVIL
Would you please share any links available? Well since you do claim tests have been done yet you didnt bother to link or say where to look for any proof, so people could see for themselves. Im curious.

And I never called players leaving nodes/chests with worms/trash "exploiters", I called them half-picking trolls.
There are many people always online on the European Megaserver and coming across half picked nodes isnt "funny" for anyone, specially if you state they "refill as fast as empty nodes".

Lypheja · August 2017

Aside from refill/despawn of harvesting nodes topic - part of suggestion still stands.

Obligated looting of harvesting nodes.

ESO+ people wouldnt mind as everything goes into their crafting bag anyway.

Non-sub people would have to manage their inventory as they already do.

So the half full nodes "inconvinience" some people expirience will be inexistant.

Stinkyremy · August 2017

what type of idiot does not auto loot everything.

STEVIL · August 2017

Lypheja wrote: »

Reading feedback is nice.

Question for @code65536 is there proof that any node respawns no matter if full or empty or half empty?
Uh bit trash/insects by bit - yeah, sounds like the end of the world once rage reaches a certain point.
Id suggest a new improvement then - 30 seconds/1minute despawns or something.

@STEVIL
Would you please share any links available? Well since you do claim tests have been done yet you didnt bother to link or say where to look for any proof, so people could see for themselves. Im curious.

And I never called players leaving nodes/chests with worms/trash "exploiters", I called them half-picking trolls.
There are many people always online on the European Megaserver and coming across half picked nodes isnt "funny" for anyone, specially if you state they "refill as fast as empty nodes".

Re the bold...
I believed what you said was...
report this as an exploit of cherry-picking system

Now perhaps you do not define EXPLOITER as someone who exploits... At least when convenient.

STEVIL · August 2017

Stinkyremy wrote: »

what type of idiot does not auto loot everything.

Ones without eso plus make up some but most of the time I have done it involved items you cannot hold all of. The most frequent example for me personally has been cases where my inventory was full or almost full. Also treasure maps in chests. When I have one in my inventory the one in the chest won't load and be left behind.

Now if some sort of if you don't take it first touch it vanishes losing your stuff system is put in place, then that loses me stuff. I cannot just take a sec then bank or destroy to make soace and collect the stuff I left.

See its not always just idiots or so-called exploiters who leave stuff in chest or nodes after the initial taking. Or do you claim to check inventory for maps before opening chests?

STEVIL · August 2017

Lypheja wrote: »

Reading feedback is nice.

Question for @code65536 is there proof that any node respawns no matter if full or empty or half empty?
Uh bit trash/insects by bit - yeah, sounds like the end of the world once rage reaches a certain point.
Id suggest a new improvement then - 30 seconds/1minute despawns or something.

@STEVIL
Would you please share any links available? Well since you do claim tests have been done yet you didnt bother to link or say where to look for any proof, so people could see for themselves. Im curious.

And I never called players leaving nodes/chests with worms/trash "exploiters", I called them half-picking trolls.
There are many people always online on the European Megaserver and coming across half picked nodes isnt "funny" for anyone, specially if you state they "refill as fast as empty nodes".

Re the bold...

Ok so see first things first... you were the one asking for a change and citing a certain mechanical claim and i asked if YOu had tested this. your response was to dodge your claims about respawn and focus on the fact that stuff sometimes gets left behind - a fact nobody is disputing.

So, first thing first, when you make a claim and basde a change request on it, the onus is on your to provide evidence, not on everyone else in the world to disprove your so-far unsubstatiated claims or your requests.

In your Op you mention claims about not respawning and so on.

you also apparently want it so bad you are ok with forcing others to change their playstyle or lose out on stuff.

but since you ask for links... here are a couple which no doubt wont satisfy you since they likely do not provide enough but you see.... there is a search engine and we all know before someone makes a change request it is too much to expect them to use a simple search and check the first couple threads.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/325817/would-it-be-viable-to-have-craft-nodes-treasure-chest-respawn-even-if-not-empty

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3854764/#Comment_3854764

The second one is one of multiple comments about how the notion that partially looted nodes/chest do not respawn like a fully looted on does is false.

But hey, to some it may sound reasonable to prevent them from finding not full node/chest to have everyone else get nothing if they cannot take everything.

as you said in your OP "So as soon as you access world chest you either get everything in your inventory or nothing cause you dont have enough free space in your inventory."

Only thing you left out in your "or nothing" example was of course the fact that those chests have things like maps that cannot be stacked and so... net result of your suggestion there is to reduce the flow of stuff into the game from chests since in some cases, folks would get nothing when they would now get something.

How about instead of messing with everybody else's loot gathering by rule change you solve the issue by adding the following toggle: "Hide partially looted nodes" so that if you want to avoid the utter mind boggling soul crushing catastrophe of finding a node that is not as full as it ever was, you dont see them?

You know, remove the annoyance of you personally having to find not full nodes/chests but do so by reducing your findings if you choose to not by reducing the loot options of everyone else?

Seems more on target a fix... lets you change your experience to what you like without inflicting what you want on everyone else.

or is something about not forcing your idea on others or reducing how much other folks get not quite good enough?

Lypheja · August 2017

STEVIL wrote: »

Lypheja wrote: »

Reading feedback is nice.

Question for @code65536 is there proof that any node respawns no matter if full or empty or half empty?
Uh bit trash/insects by bit - yeah, sounds like the end of the world once rage reaches a certain point.
Id suggest a new improvement then - 30 seconds/1minute despawns or something.

@STEVIL
Would you please share any links available? Well since you do claim tests have been done yet you didnt bother to link or say where to look for any proof, so people could see for themselves. Im curious.

And I never called players leaving nodes/chests with worms/trash "exploiters", I called them half-picking trolls.
There are many people always online on the European Megaserver and coming across half picked nodes isnt "funny" for anyone, specially if you state they "refill as fast as empty nodes".

Re the bold...
I believed what you said was...
report this as an exploit of cherry-picking system

Now perhaps you do not define EXPLOITER as someone who exploits... At least when convenient.

Like I said half-picking or cherry picking trolls.

Exploiter is a too fancy name for a common troll.

And a troll exploits what is to be exploited, making life for others harder or miserable.

STEVIL wrote: »

Stinkyremy wrote: »

what type of idiot does not auto loot everything.

Ones without eso plus make up some but most of the time I have done it involved items you cannot hold all of. The most frequent example for me personally has been cases where my inventory was full or almost full. Also treasure maps in chests. When I have one in my inventory the one in the chest won't load and be left behind.

Now if some sort of if you don't take it first touch it vanishes losing your stuff system is put in place, then that loses me stuff. I cannot just take a sec then bank or destroy to make soace and collect the stuff I left.

See its not always just idiots or so-called exploiters who leave stuff in chest or nodes after the initial taking. Or do you claim to check inventory for maps before opening chests?

Well heres an example how you DONT leave treasure maps with trash in chests
(personally sounds like good imagination to me as I never came across a chest with a treasure map in it along with leftover trash):

1) When I find double treasure maps i take a second to destroy the one i have in my inventory as i dont own the banker assistant, cause i care about chest refilling itself for someone else.

Yeah it opens a window for some idiot to swoop in and access my chest from under my nose - which is also a low-life way of playing, yet i still destroy stuff to have the chest vanish and refill. It's called common decency, if you heard.

2) You CAN bank your stuff, which is why we have personal banker available that can be purchased.

So forgive me again, but thats bull excuse.

P.S. This part didnt make much sense to me:
"Now if some sort of if you don't take it first touch it vanishes losing your stuff system is put in place, then that loses me stuff. "

STEVIL · August 2017

Lypheja wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

Lypheja wrote: »

Reading feedback is nice.

Question for @code65536 is there proof that any node respawns no matter if full or empty or half empty?
Uh bit trash/insects by bit - yeah, sounds like the end of the world once rage reaches a certain point.
Id suggest a new improvement then - 30 seconds/1minute despawns or something.

@STEVIL
Would you please share any links available? Well since you do claim tests have been done yet you didnt bother to link or say where to look for any proof, so people could see for themselves. Im curious.

And I never called players leaving nodes/chests with worms/trash "exploiters", I called them half-picking trolls.
There are many people always online on the European Megaserver and coming across half picked nodes isnt "funny" for anyone, specially if you state they "refill as fast as empty nodes".

Re the bold...
I believed what you said was...
report this as an exploit of cherry-picking system

Now perhaps you do not define EXPLOITER as someone who exploits... At least when convenient.

Like I said half-picking or cherry picking trolls.

Exploiter is a too fancy name for a common troll.

And a troll exploits what is to be exploited, making life for others harder or miserable.

STEVIL wrote: »

Stinkyremy wrote: »

what type of idiot does not auto loot everything.

Ones without eso plus make up some but most of the time I have done it involved items you cannot hold all of. The most frequent example for me personally has been cases where my inventory was full or almost full. Also treasure maps in chests. When I have one in my inventory the one in the chest won't load and be left behind.

Now if some sort of if you don't take it first touch it vanishes losing your stuff system is put in place, then that loses me stuff. I cannot just take a sec then bank or destroy to make soace and collect the stuff I left.

See its not always just idiots or so-called exploiters who leave stuff in chest or nodes after the initial taking. Or do you claim to check inventory for maps before opening chests?

Well heres an example how you DONT leave treasure maps with trash in chests
(personally sounds like good imagination to me as I never came across a chest with a treasure map in it along with leftover trash):

1) When I find double treasure maps i take a second to destroy the one i have in my inventory as i dont own the banker assistant, cause i care about chest refilling itself for someone else.

Yeah it opens a window for some idiot to swoop in and access my chest from under my nose - which is also a low-life way of playing, yet i still destroy stuff to have the chest vanish and refill. It's called common decency, if you heard.

2) You CAN bank your stuff, which is why we have personal banker available that can be purchased.

So forgive me again, but thats bull excuse.

P.S. This part didnt make much sense to me:
"Now if some sort of if you don't take it first touch it vanishes losing your stuff system is put in place, then that loses me stuff. "

Ok got it so your objection to "exploiter" for those not playing this way you want was that it wasn't harsh enough? Ok.

As for your destroy map option, you have to realize that if the chests respawn regardless of lootted fully or looted partially then you are adopting a practice which reduces the stuff other people get? The second map dies instead of being left and possibly picked up by someone who needs it? Since you apparently have not proven that chests and nodes respawn slower if left partial instead of emptied, why would you recommend this as a course of action if it lowers the goods coming into players hands?

Another example of "someone else loses so you get your way" as opposed to the "hide from me" toggle which would let you not see the partial nodes if you chose to do so.

not surprising at all.

Whenever interactions between humans reach a point of potential conflict or disagreement it is frequent that you see those who jump immediately to the "make others act as i want and if they lose out so be it" and others first look at "how can i change to resolve the conflict without costing others" and which way folks initially jump is often quite telling.

As for the bold, chests have maps. maps cannot be stacked. You yourself seem to admit to destroying maps when conflicts occur so you have seen conflicts such as this. unless you believe everybody else does this thing then i find it odd that you so readily dismiss that chests have ever been left with maps in them.

but hey, another convenient assumption for your unsupported argument for change to inflict on others what you want.

Lypheja · August 2017

Nope. First thing first.

If i dont have enough program knowledge to do the testing, besides i dont know what is "legal" to do on a server besides the use of addons, its not my responsability to investigate an incident that i cant control,track or influence in any way, that happens again and again and knowing im not the only one suffering from it.
My job is to report it and ask for improvement as a client.

If you live in the world where people lie to get their way - i feel sorry for you. If this was an empty,based on imagination bold lie, this topic and disscusion wouldnt exist. I would have no reason to start it or keep conversing.

You came and stated stated people have done tests. If i use search engine i probably have to scroll through another hundred of threads that dont all make sense and since you are so confident, why not spare some time and enlighten the thread.

But Im guessing the topics you linked were random then? Otherwise why would one mention a search engine.

Purpose of this thread was to inform and ask for improvement, maybe encourage an investigation done by developers themselves.So ive done my social duty to the gaming society of players to the extent that I am capable of.

"How about instead of messing with everybody else's loot gathering by rule change you solve the issue by adding the following toggle: "Hide partially looted nodes" so that if you want to avoid the utter mind boggling soul crushing catastrophe of finding a node that is not as full as it ever was, you dont see them?"

Or how about you just behave and get all the loot out?
As I mentioned, you saying to me "add toggle: tells me nothing. I dont remember that option in settings or any add-on that actually does that. Not program savvy, as i said thousand times by now but it gets ignored over and over again.

As i have experienced, not all decide to be decent , so why should i deal with it and why should they have an option of selective looting? Goes both ways.

I vote for rule change - all or nothing. Keep spare space in your bag or invest into a banker assistant.

As for treasure maps, maybe with obligated looting, maps will become stackable, if not, well find the treasure spot before you go "world chest hunting" again.

"Seems more on target a fix... lets you change your experience to what you like without inflicting what you want on everyone else.

or is something about not forcing your idea on others or reducing how much other folks get not quite good enough?"

Im asking for improvement. Yes it affects everyone. But saying forcing ideas on everyone? That be over the line. Then anytime anyone asks for improvement or for some problem solving they are forcing people to deal with their own opinion or perspective of the existing problem.

Lypheja · August 2017

"As for your destroy map option, you have to realize that if the chests respawn regardless of lootted fully or looted partially then you are adopting a practice which reduces the stuff other people get? The second map dies instead of being left and possibly picked up by someone who needs it? Since you apparently have not proven that chests and nodes respawn slower if left partial instead of emptied, why would you recommend this as a course of action if it lowers the goods coming into players hands?"

Isnt it balanced in a way that as soon as one thing is consumed or destroyed, another takes its place and comes into the world? That would be my only logical assumption. Also if people want to find more treasure maps they may need to consider investing Champion points into Shadow, for Treasure Hunter perk. Certainly that gives a bit more chance to find more. And if not, well they arent exactly expensive in the guild stores.

On same note : I think the amount of treasure maps that sits forever in Guild Stores is the reason why less of them are "findable" in world chests.

If you chose to see it as personal attack, be my guest.
As I mentioned before Im asking for improvement and this particular problem solving.
I get it when people dont fully loot chests in dungeons, cause it resets once we go our merry ways, but world chest, sorry, thats too good to leave it as " selective looting option". You found all of it, take all of it. Let someone find something better or worse. Depends on tehir luck/ring/treasure hunter perk.
Ring is the way it is.

"Whenever interactions between humans reach a point of potential conflict or disagreement it is frequent that you see those who jump immediately to the "make others act as i want and if they lose out so be it" and others first look at "how can i change to resolve the conflict without costing others" and which way folks initially jump is often quite telling."

Immediately? You made me laugh. Ive been around since beta testing and past 1,5 year were annoying to harvest. So I think I waited long enough hoping things will change on their own and since it still is what it is " selective looting system" i want an improvement that will not give that option.

If you want me to change " get all or nothing" fine. It can be get all and then you cant add anything to your inventiry until you empty the "overburdened" slots. it would be like personal bank space is now - when ESO+ ends you cant add anything until you get the 200+ items out again. Simple. You wont get less loot and i wont get half picked nodes.

"As for the bold, chests have maps. maps cannot be stacked. You yourself seem to admit to destroying maps when conflicts occur so you have seen conflicts such as this. unless you believe everybody else does this thing then i find it odd that you so readily dismiss that chests have ever been left with maps in them."

Like I also said before i never came across a chest with treasure map only or with few trash pieces and a map. SO to me its a myth.

Maybe it will become a supported claim once devs check themselves. Uh forgot forgive me for not being a coder/programer or whatever else i need to be to get your tests and "support" the claim.

I have the right to report what is happening and how its happening and why i want an improvement, that is solution to the problem.

You have a right to your opinion.

ZOS has the right to investigate and do something about it.

code65536 · August 2017

Lypheja wrote: »

So ive done my social duty to the gaming society of players to the extent that I am capable of.

Your "social duty" would have been better received if:

It was not predicated on the common myth of partial looting preventing de-/respawn.
It did not come with colorful commentary calling people "trolls" who "exploit" (your exact words).
It did not suggest as a solution a heavy-handed draconian measure that would arguably do more harm than good.

This "social duty" thread of yours, frankly, is filled more with rage and spite than thoughtful consideration the problem.

Stinkyremy · August 2017

STEVIL wrote: »

Stinkyremy wrote: »

what type of idiot does not auto loot everything.

Ones without eso plus make up some but most of the time I have done it involved items you cannot hold all of. The most frequent example for me personally has been cases where my inventory was full or almost full. Also treasure maps in chests. When I have one in my inventory the one in the chest won't load and be left behind.

Now if some sort of if you don't take it first touch it vanishes losing your stuff system is put in place, then that loses me stuff. I cannot just take a sec then bank or destroy to make soace and collect the stuff I left.

See its not always just idiots or so-called exploiters who leave stuff in chest or nodes after the initial taking. Or do you claim to check inventory for maps before opening chests?

No even before I had craft bag and ESO+ I auto loot everything. it would take more time checking everything you loot than it would destroying some crappy item in your inv to then pick up what you have in the chest or node when your inv is full.

Of course even with Craft bag i occasionally am full of loot so I have to destroy some things. Normally when this happens I am in a dungeon too, so trash and white items get destroyed first. Some times I have to leave items behind.

STEVIL · August 2017

Lypheja wrote: »

Nope. First thing first.

If i dont have enough program knowledge to do the testing, besides i dont know what is "legal" to do on a server besides the use of addons, its not my responsability to investigate an incident that i cant control,track or influence in any way, that happens again and again and knowing im not the only one suffering from it.
My job is to report it and ask for improvement as a client.

If you live in the world where people lie to get their way - i feel sorry for you. If this was an empty,based on imagination bold lie, this topic and disscusion wouldnt exist. I would have no reason to start it or keep conversing.

You came and stated stated people have done tests. If i use search engine i probably have to scroll through another hundred of threads that dont all make sense and since you are so confident, why not spare some time and enlighten the thread.

But Im guessing the topics you linked were random then? Otherwise why would one mention a search engine.

Purpose of this thread was to inform and ask for improvement, maybe encourage an investigation done by developers themselves.So ive done my social duty to the gaming society of players to the extent that I am capable of.

"How about instead of messing with everybody else's loot gathering by rule change you solve the issue by adding the following toggle: "Hide partially looted nodes" so that if you want to avoid the utter mind boggling soul crushing catastrophe of finding a node that is not as full as it ever was, you dont see them?"

Or how about you just behave and get all the loot out?
As I mentioned, you saying to me "add toggle: tells me nothing. I dont remember that option in settings or any add-on that actually does that. Not program savvy, as i said thousand times by now but it gets ignored over and over again.

As i have experienced, not all decide to be decent , so why should i deal with it and why should they have an option of selective looting? Goes both ways.

I vote for rule change - all or nothing. Keep spare space in your bag or invest into a banker assistant.

As for treasure maps, maybe with obligated looting, maps will become stackable, if not, well find the treasure spot before you go "world chest hunting" again.

"Seems more on target a fix... lets you change your experience to what you like without inflicting what you want on everyone else.

or is something about not forcing your idea on others or reducing how much other folks get not quite good enough?"

Im asking for improvement. Yes it affects everyone. But saying forcing ideas on everyone? That be over the line. Then anytime anyone asks for improvement or for some problem solving they are forcing people to deal with their own opinion or perspective of the existing problem.

OK so several obvious failures of logic here.

lets take them one by one.

First bold - there is no program knowledge needed to test respawn rates for emptied chests/nodes vs partially looted ones. All you need to do is to find a chest in the wild during off-hours where you can be unmolested and try it. First, loot the chest fully then move off and back and so on until it respawns. now you have a time.
then, loot it partially and move off for that period of time, maybe add a minute to allow for server variance, then come back in and see whats in the chest.
do this several times if you need good convincing or other folks intervene.

see if indeed you see a noticable different in reload rates or not.

it takes effort, not program knowledge.

And no, you do not have to do this to report something, only if you want to add any substance to your claim. Also, if you want to ask for an improvement, it might be necessary for you to actually know how it works now before you claim something is an improvement.

Second bold - if you dont **think** you live in a world where folks lie to get their way, you should likely not be on the internet without supervision.

Third bold - Actually the links i provided were from using search engine on chest respawn and looking at the first couple of threads. Again your assumption without taking effort to verify that scroll thru hundred of threads shows the possible folly in making assumptions as opposed to spending efforts before making a claim. (Why use search engine is of course - because it works and doing a little research before making claims is usually a good idea.)

Fourth bold - see, by "behave" you mean act the way you want them to... there is no set of stone tablets where it is written that only taking the stuff you want or need and leaving the rest for others is bad. usually such tablets or burning shrubs tend to lean the other way, that taking more than you need is bad.

Fifth bold - no that isn't going both ways. Not in the least.
your suggested change forces a change to play that others have to do and cannot opt-out of. it makes everybody take all the stuff or get nothing. its literally your way or the highway.
my suggested change - that they add a toggle so that you can choose to not see partial nodes - forces no gameplay on anybody. if you want to play and see partial nodes you have that option. if you dont you can toggle it off in settings after this change.

See the difference? Not both ways - one makes folks play the way you want while the other lets folks choose.

As for testing - - yes i did post about people running tests. You see references to that made by others as well in the links i provided. For me, the "test" was done in-game. When i need to level up a new skill or a morph i go during off-hours to a good "mob" spot where i can do a run between like six mobs killing them gathering stuff etc and by the time i finish one circle the first are back so this can go on for a while. One of my favorite spots also has lots of nodes, four chests, three or four thieves troves and so on. this is where i have hit the map conflict thingy. During those circuits i know how many loopsd it usualy takes for chests to respawn. I know from experience that in more or less the same number of loops, when i left maps, the chest had reset and had new stuff. Was not trying to prove or video capture for you tube just doing my thing and paying attention and seeing how things work. Add to that seeing the various threads here where some folks when they refer to actually tersting it keep coming back to "it respawns anyway" and the ones who complain about partial loot not respawning and oh the pain the pain seem to mostly come back to explain why they do not need to test or cannot test or some other excuse for why they don't really know.

As for your vote to inflict this change on everyone, well, again, if you wont even take the time to test and see if your imagined "how things work now" is correct, that undermines the weight of your claim about the problem and how good this fix is.

me, i tend to go for changes with options which let folks choose before i vote for changes which force certain all-or-nothing half-thought-out "solutions" that then seem to cascade into other types of changes like your new changes to treasure maps.

(Not that i mind treasure maps stacking BTW.)

STEVIL · August 2017

code65536 wrote: »

Lypheja wrote: »

So ive done my social duty to the gaming society of players to the extent that I am capable of.

Your "social duty" would have been better received if:
It was not predicated on the common myth of partial looting preventing de-/respawn.

It did not come with colorful commentary calling people "trolls" who "exploit" (your exact words).

It did not suggest as a solution a heavy-handed draconian measure that would arguably do more harm than good.

This "social duty" thread of yours, frankly, is filled more with rage and spite than thoughtful consideration the problem.

While i will admit that i do not often agree with you, in this case, i do wholeheartedly.

STEVIL · August 2017

Stinkyremy wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

Stinkyremy wrote: »

what type of idiot does not auto loot everything.

Ones without eso plus make up some but most of the time I have done it involved items you cannot hold all of. The most frequent example for me personally has been cases where my inventory was full or almost full. Also treasure maps in chests. When I have one in my inventory the one in the chest won't load and be left behind.

Now if some sort of if you don't take it first touch it vanishes losing your stuff system is put in place, then that loses me stuff. I cannot just take a sec then bank or destroy to make soace and collect the stuff I left.

See its not always just idiots or so-called exploiters who leave stuff in chest or nodes after the initial taking. Or do you claim to check inventory for maps before opening chests?

No even before I had craft bag and ESO+ I auto loot everything. it would take more time checking everything you loot than it would destroying some crappy item in your inv to then pick up what you have in the chest or node when your inv is full.

Of course even with Craft bag i occasionally am full of loot so I have to destroy some things. Normally when this happens I am in a dungeon too, so trash and white items get destroyed first. Some times I have to leave items behind.

that was why i said some.

i also auto-loot everything except stolen and only even notice what i got later when i manage inventory. To me sufficient punishment for "cherry pickers", if one believes they need to be punished, is how much of their own time they waste.

time, after all, is the only resource that really matters.

STEVIL · August 2017

Lypheja wrote: »

"As for your destroy map option, you have to realize that if the chests respawn regardless of lootted fully or looted partially then you are adopting a practice which reduces the stuff other people get? The second map dies instead of being left and possibly picked up by someone who needs it? Since you apparently have not proven that chests and nodes respawn slower if left partial instead of emptied, why would you recommend this as a course of action if it lowers the goods coming into players hands?"

Isnt it balanced in a way that as soon as one thing is consumed or destroyed, another takes its place and comes into the world? That would be my only logical assumption. Also if people want to find more treasure maps they may need to consider investing Champion points into Shadow, for Treasure Hunter perk. Certainly that gives a bit more chance to find more. And if not, well they arent exactly expensive in the guild stores.

On same note : I think the amount of treasure maps that sits forever in Guild Stores is the reason why less of them are "findable" in world chests.

If you chose to see it as personal attack, be my guest.
As I mentioned before Im asking for improvement and this particular problem solving.
I get it when people dont fully loot chests in dungeons, cause it resets once we go our merry ways, but world chest, sorry, thats too good to leave it as " selective looting option". You found all of it, take all of it. Let someone find something better or worse. Depends on tehir luck/ring/treasure hunter perk.
Ring is the way it is.

"Whenever interactions between humans reach a point of potential conflict or disagreement it is frequent that you see those who jump immediately to the "make others act as i want and if they lose out so be it" and others first look at "how can i change to resolve the conflict without costing others" and which way folks initially jump is often quite telling."

Immediately? You made me laugh. Ive been around since beta testing and past 1,5 year were annoying to harvest. So I think I waited long enough hoping things will change on their own and since it still is what it is " selective looting system" i want an improvement that will not give that option.

If you want me to change " get all or nothing" fine. It can be get all and then you cant add anything to your inventiry until you empty the "overburdened" slots. it would be like personal bank space is now - when ESO+ ends you cant add anything until you get the 200+ items out again. Simple. You wont get less loot and i wont get half picked nodes.

"As for the bold, chests have maps. maps cannot be stacked. You yourself seem to admit to destroying maps when conflicts occur so you have seen conflicts such as this. unless you believe everybody else does this thing then i find it odd that you so readily dismiss that chests have ever been left with maps in them."

Like I also said before i never came across a chest with treasure map only or with few trash pieces and a map. SO to me its a myth.

Maybe it will become a supported claim once devs check themselves. Uh forgot forgive me for not being a coder/programer or whatever else i need to be to get your tests and "support" the claim.

I have the right to report what is happening and how its happening and why i want an improvement, that is solution to the problem.

You have a right to your opinion.

ZOS has the right to investigate and do something about it.

Re the bold - there is nothing balanced about looting chests or nodes - they exist and you take and you get more and more is added into play. they are meant to be a positive flow into the world of stuff, not some sort of give and take net zero thing so... your notion about how right it is to destroy one map to get a copy is utter... well lets be polite and say "unusual and not in keeping with how resource nodes and chest function in this game now."

As for the other flailing about on champion points and guild stores and so on... it is just flailing about.

As for limiting your notion of what exists to what you have seen, that is where things like understanding how the game works plays a role in making judgements, decisions and conclusions - even if you have not seen treasure maps left behind in chests yourself or have not seen a khajit skooma bubbler outside of a guild store, if you know more about how things actually work you can understand and know they do exist and are not just myths.

or well, some can, others, not so much.

code65536 · August 2017

What you can easily test is that the chest will despawn. I've done this inadvertently, where once in a dungeon I interacted with the lockpicking mechanism in a chest, but the group moved on ahead, so I decided to instead of opening it, save it for after the run. I came back, and the chest had despawned. Once I suspected that merely starting the lockpick will trigger despawn, it was fairly easy to verify in the overworld: find an obscure chest that nobody else would stumble upon. Interact with the lockpicking mechanism. Wait several minutes. Watch the chest disappear before your eyes.

Chest respawn, however, is a much trickier matter. Every given zone has a number of possible chest spawn locations, but a limited number of chests that can exist at any given time. Once a chest has despawned, a new one will respawn at one of the possible spawn locations. It might respawn at the same location just vacated by the despawning chest. Or it might respawn at the other end of the map. So how long it takes for one particular chest location to respawn will depend mostly RNG and somewhat on the rate of "churn" going on in the zone.

For example, a delve might have 10 chest spawn locations, but only 2 chests may exist at any given time. If you want to farm chests in a delve, you need to do a full circuit of all the locations. Some locations may get two spawns in a row. And some locations might not get a spawn in over an hour. And if chests aren't despawning in the occupied locations, then no respawn will happen at the currently-vacant locations.

(The same applies to Thieves' Troves, and the bug that existed at the launch of Thieves Guild was that the limit on troves in the zone was not active, so every possible spawn location would respawn when its trove despawned.)

STEVIL · August 2017

code65536 wrote: »

What you can easily test is that the chest will despawn. I've done this inadvertently, where once in a dungeon I interacted with the lockpicking mechanism in a chest, but the group moved on ahead, so I decided to instead of opening it, save it for after the run. I came back, and the chest had despawned. Once I suspected that merely starting the lockpick will trigger despawn, it was fairly easy to verify in the overworld: find an obscure chest that nobody else would stumble upon. Interact with the lockpicking mechanism. Wait several minutes. Watch the chest disappear before your eyes.

Chest respawn, however, is a much trickier matter. Every given zone has a number of possible chest spawn locations, but a limited number of chests that can exist at any given time. Once a chest has despawned, a new one will respawn at one of the possible spawn locations. It might respawn at the same location just vacated by the despawning chest. Or it might respawn at the other end of the map. So how long it takes for one particular chest location to respawn will depend a lot on luck and on the rate of "churn" going on in the zone.

For example, a delve might have 10 chest spawn locations, but only 2 chests may exist at any given time. If you want to farm chests in a delve, you need to do a full circuit of all the locations. Some locations may get two spawns in a row. And some locations might not get a spawn in over an hour. And if chests aren't despawning in the occupied locations, then no respawn will happen at the currently-vacant locations.

agree - chest spawning in dungeons or delves is not a good location choice for the reasons given above.

LadyDestiny · August 2017

I do agree they should make it so nodes and chests automatically deliver everything into your inventory. Even if you are overloaded. Will take care of the ******* who leave stuff behind. End of problem with the cherry pickers.

Qbiken · August 2017

Not a problem to be honest. As @Asardes said the "respawn-timer" will start as soon as someone starts interacting with it.

If I don´t want to pick up every single "non-node" I´m not forced to do so and forcing people to do so is a bad solution. Same thing goes for people who claim that someone "stole their chest" while fighting a mob (Note that chests that comes from treasuremaps can´t be interacted with by someone else beside the one that had the map used, so this goes for random chests that spawns). It´s not your chest until you´ve unlocked it, deal with it. If I see a masterchest I´ll grab that stuff ASAP, regarding of who´s close. #L2farmfaster

If I harvest a node before someone else it´s kinda "my node" for a few seconds and I decide what to do with it. If I don´t want every alchemic raisen/worm/hearwood etc I will not pick it up for the simple reason that I don´t need it or do not want it. And having the ability to choose is what makes it nice. And to be fair: If you are farming nodes/chests or whatever, it´s not often you come over "half-empty" nodes (unless there´s someone in the same are doing the exact same farming route as you´re doing). Sure you come over an empty chest or and empty node from time to time, but it´s a very minor issue.

And to add to OP: I usually empty everything on a node/chest since I have the crownstore merchant and can sell all I don´t need to her. But forcing people to take everything from a node/chest is just a bad move. You should always have a choice

DiteHart · September 2017

I think STEVIL's idea for a toggle-able option for semi-filled nodes and chests be hidden is great! It'd be best for everyone.

People that don't want to take everything can pick and choose what they want, without inconveniencing those who have a problem with it.
People willing to take everything can show those nodes and take the extras if they're available.
And people who hate finding those nodes won't have to see them.

Lypheja: I think it'd be easier to believe that you feel like you're trying to suggest what you think is best for all players (at least from what I can understand, the "gaming society of players" means all ESO players), would be easier to believe if you acted a little more understanding to other peoples' priorities and playstyles.

You said you had "little respect for farmers", and are calling everyone that doesn't take everything from a node trolls, say they lack decency and can't behave. All because they are trying to play in a way that has been allowed since the beginning--and one that doesn't directly affect you. Some people actually don't mind getting it, and it's not fair to blame them because you happened to be the one to pick it up and NOT someone who doesn't mind.
For some of the people (like myself until I learned) that do get mad, it only bothers them because they think it doesn't respawn. If that is the case--which I would have expected to be how they would have done things, and haven't seen proof against it, then they are actually bothering less people than you think.

And, it isn't fair to talk down on them because they aren't playing in a way that conveniences you, when they are probably trying to prevent bigger inconveniences for themselves.

I mean, I've counted 306 different items in my craft bag, 130 items in my inventory, 174 items in my bank, and 3 guild stores filled with items (90). 700+ items excluding the ones I have equipped--and I just cut down to one character. They get, what, 240 bank space and 200 space per character, if they've maxed all their horse and bank capacity? And the term "inventory management game" isn't new. So, I'm sure they already give up gold and miss out on stuff.
And don't forget that any official changes like that would affect console players, too. And we don't get the benefit of add-ons to help automate some things (like selling junk and stuff).

But, you're saying you want them to add to that to save you time. You want them to spend probably 5-10 more minutes at a time, and potentially miss out on items, so that you can save probably 10 second per node and not be (what should be) slightly disappointed. I mean, if taking everything is required, you probably have auto-loot on (or would press the Take All button), and if time is THAT much of a factor, you got the champion passive for faster harvesting. So, 10 seconds is probably generous.

I'm definitely okay with people who don't pay to have to manage their inventory in a smart way, but I feel like a decent person wouldn't want to add to the barriers already set in the game for their own minor conveniences. Nor would they suggest that those people should be like them and spend $15/month for ESO+ or $40 for a portable banker. ESO+ is a good value (and if you save your crowns, you can get the banker in 4 months), but I wouldn't say "Get ESO Plus so that MY gaming experience is even easier."