As a tank, I wish ZOS revert the change to group skill effects, or at least make it optional

hmsdragonfly · August 2017

Kammakazi wrote: »

PvE'rs complaining about low frames during trials

ZoS fixes

PvE'rs still complaining

It's a legit feedback.

Mureel · August 2017

Confirmed!

code65536 wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

We warned of this in the PTS.

Another classic example of ZOS not wanting your feedback.

Probably because the overwhelming majority--tanks included--appreciate this change. It's rare for me to come across someone who actually thinks that this change is bad.

This is one of the most hotly-anticipated features of this patch. There are a few detractors, yes, but that's to be expected. So, yes, ZOS did listen to feedback. They addressed one of the key pain points of players. Would it have been nice if they made it optional, to cater to those with exceptional visual acuity? Sure. But that's an extra layer of complexity.

OK how is it Extra Layer of Complexity? The effects are still there, you yourself just cannot see them. Helmet Switch same deal, or? If they can TURN IT OFF, then a switch to turn it on or off would be nice.

AS FOR OTHER TANKS: Unless there's AOE everywhere, y'all should NOT be moving the bosses at random times, and all AOES should be on the bosses AND adds together wherever possible. Tanks should in NO WAY be moving out of ults unless they were in the wrong place in the first place, and you shouldn't put your ults in the wrong place. Common sense solves 9/10 these issues.

Mureel · August 2017

Awww no fair! Can't see Lich Crystals but can still see BIG FIREBALLS from Skoria xD Booo!

Doctordarkspawn · August 2017

code65536 wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

We warned of this in the PTS.

Another classic example of ZOS not wanting your feedback.

Probably because the overwhelming majority--tanks included--appreciate this change. It's rare for me to come across someone who actually thinks that this change is bad.

This is one of the most hotly-anticipated features of this patch. There are a few detractors, yes, but that's to be expected. So, yes, ZOS did listen to feedback. They addressed one of the key pain points of players. Would it have been nice if they made it optional, to cater to those with exceptional visual acuity? Sure. But that's an extra layer of complexity.

And I have no idea why.

Your tank is going to constantly be pulling enemies out of AOE's. This makes no sense. Just seems like your trying to really spin a negative into a positive. If the visual effects are reduced, then why not just give a toggle? Reduced visual noise is one thing, but you should try to replace it with something. Like, say, a 'yellow' circle or two on the ground to represent allied AOE.

I'd also love to know who died and made you speaker for some majority you claim to speak for. Citation bloody needed.

@Doctordarkspawn Hmm, let's see here. You quit the game and don't even play it. You state proudly on the forums that you don't even do trials. You constantly complain that there is no good content for tanks, even though all of the best tank content are in the trials that you refuse to touch; e.g., in vHoF where everything hinges on the tanks, two good tanks can carry a mediocre group to a clear, but even the best DPS in the world can't clear if their two tanks aren't competent.

So what makes you--someone who is entirely disconnected from the game and have no idea what it is like "in the trenches"--more qualified than someone who is actively tanking endgame content and who knows a lot of other tanks? Every single endgame tank that I personally know looked forward to this change. Because there is still enough visual cue about where their ground effects are (it's not a complete removal) and because in general, it's our positioning that dictate the placement of their ground effects, not vice-versa.

So my question to you is, what makes you--the ZOS-can-do-nothing-right-forum-troll-who-doesn't-even-play--qualified to make judgment on the opinions of people who do actively tank?

On this issue, I have never made claims to what people in general think about this change. You have. But I have not and refuse to.

1. Not having an option isn't an excuse. Even if it is a graphics option, there's no reason this, much like the block-icon should not have an option. Much like the bow heavy attack before it, there's nothing that says you cant have an option. And if you have information that would point to why I urge you to share it.

2. As people have allready started, not knowing what buffs and debuffs people have put on the boss or in general hurts group cohesion. It's not just the grothdar procs. Things like, say, elemental drain. Is the healer puting it on or am I wasting my time as a DPS? (A hypothetical.)

These are the points, you can argue these points, or you can be disreguarded as someone with a vendetta. Which, given you tend to focus on me whenever we pay attention to the same thread, you seem to.

Thank god we dont need a qualification card to speak on these things, big brother. Thank god you cant shut everyone up who disagree's with you, by violently punching them across the face until they stop disagreeing with you. Sometimes, heavens forbid, a laymans view can speak volumes for perspective. And, heaven forbid, even though I have stopped playing regularly, I still like to keep track of the balance in case it gets -better- or more fun to play. Heaven forbid people dont love something unconditionally enough to defend it blindly and silence all decent against it.

Peekachu99 · August 2017

Mureel wrote: »

Confirmed!

code65536 wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

We warned of this in the PTS.

Another classic example of ZOS not wanting your feedback.

Probably because the overwhelming majority--tanks included--appreciate this change. It's rare for me to come across someone who actually thinks that this change is bad.

This is one of the most hotly-anticipated features of this patch. There are a few detractors, yes, but that's to be expected. So, yes, ZOS did listen to feedback. They addressed one of the key pain points of players. Would it have been nice if they made it optional, to cater to those with exceptional visual acuity? Sure. But that's an extra layer of complexity.

OK how is it Extra Layer of Complexity? The effects are still there, you yourself just cannot see them. Helmet Switch same deal, or? If they can TURN IT OFF, then a switch to turn it on or off would be nice.

AS FOR OTHER TANKS: Unless there's AOE everywhere, y'all should NOT be moving the bosses at random times, and all AOES should be on the bosses AND adds together wherever possible. Tanks should in NO WAY be moving out of ults unless they were in the wrong place in the first place, and you shouldn't put your ults in the wrong place. Common sense solves 9/10 these issues.

Maybe you haven't played the latest dungeons, which require immense moveability and quick repositioning when tanking: minotaurs, dogs and at least 1/2 the bosses. Most of those movements are indeed "random" as determined by various mobs or targets unpredictable behaviour.

code65536 · August 2017

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

We warned of this in the PTS.

Another classic example of ZOS not wanting your feedback.

Probably because the overwhelming majority--tanks included--appreciate this change. It's rare for me to come across someone who actually thinks that this change is bad.

This is one of the most hotly-anticipated features of this patch. There are a few detractors, yes, but that's to be expected. So, yes, ZOS did listen to feedback. They addressed one of the key pain points of players. Would it have been nice if they made it optional, to cater to those with exceptional visual acuity? Sure. But that's an extra layer of complexity.

And I have no idea why.

Your tank is going to constantly be pulling enemies out of AOE's. This makes no sense. Just seems like your trying to really spin a negative into a positive. If the visual effects are reduced, then why not just give a toggle? Reduced visual noise is one thing, but you should try to replace it with something. Like, say, a 'yellow' circle or two on the ground to represent allied AOE.

I'd also love to know who died and made you speaker for some majority you claim to speak for. Citation bloody needed.

@Doctordarkspawn Hmm, let's see here. You quit the game and don't even play it. You state proudly on the forums that you don't even do trials. You constantly complain that there is no good content for tanks, even though all of the best tank content are in the trials that you refuse to touch; e.g., in vHoF where everything hinges on the tanks, two good tanks can carry a mediocre group to a clear, but even the best DPS in the world can't clear if their two tanks aren't competent.

So what makes you--someone who is entirely disconnected from the game and have no idea what it is like "in the trenches"--more qualified than someone who is actively tanking endgame content and who knows a lot of other tanks? Every single endgame tank that I personally know looked forward to this change. Because there is still enough visual cue about where their ground effects are (it's not a complete removal) and because in general, it's our positioning that dictate the placement of their ground effects, not vice-versa.

So my question to you is, what makes you--the ZOS-can-do-nothing-right-forum-troll-who-doesn't-even-play--qualified to make judgment on the opinions of people who do actively tank?

On this issue, I have never made claims to what people in general think about this change. You have. But I have not and refuse to.

1. Not having an option isn't an excuse. Even if it is a graphics option, there's no reason this, much like the block-icon should not have an option. Much like the bow heavy attack before it, there's nothing that says you cant have an option. And if you have information that would point to why I urge you to share it.

2. As people have allready started, not knowing what buffs and debuffs people have put on the boss or in general hurts group cohesion. It's not just the grothdar procs. Things like, say, elemental drain. Is the healer puting it on or am I wasting my time as a DPS? (A hypothetical.)

These are the points, you can argue these points, or you can be disreguarded as someone with a vendetta. Which, given you tend to focus on me whenever we pay attention to the same thread, you seem to.

Thank god we dont need a qualification card to speak on these things, big brother. Thank god you cant shut everyone up who disagree's with you, by violently punching them across the face until they stop disagreeing with you. Sometimes, heavens forbid, a laymans view can speak volumes for perspective. And, heaven forbid, even though I have stopped playing regularly, I still like to keep track of the balance in case it gets -better- or more fun to play. Heaven forbid people dont love something unconditionally enough to defend it blindly and silence all decent against it.

Honest question: Why are you even here? Every single time I see you post, it's to criticize something that ZOS did. You hate this game. You hate the direction that this game has taken. You've quit the game as a result. So why are you still here, months after quitting, taking potshots every single opportunity you get? Is this more fun for you than actually playing the game?

I'm not saying that ZOS is flawless--hell, I've criticized them countless times--but they deserve credit where credit is due. And this change is one of the best changes they've made this patch. The visual effects are still there, just toned down substantially. It means it's easier to see mechanics. It means smoother performance. Have you actually tried it? If you had bothered to, you'd also know that Elemental Drain isn't even affected by this, contrary to your post. If you had bothered to, you'd see that all this is a non-issue because it's still pretty damn clear where that destro ult is without the cloud overhead and excessive sparkles. Instead, you don't play the game, you don't know what this change is actually like, and you barge into this thread like others to satisfy your vendetta and attack ZOS and the people who dare to actually give ZOS credit. So, yes, I am very much irked by that, and yes, I am calling you out for it.

(And as I already said, an option would be nice, but that's extra UI to code, extra text to translate, extra cases that need to be tested by their QA team that evidently is overwhelmed because of all the things that are already being missed, so it's understandable if ZOS decided that it was not worth the effort, at least for now.)

Doctordarkspawn · August 2017

code65536 wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

We warned of this in the PTS.

Another classic example of ZOS not wanting your feedback.

Probably because the overwhelming majority--tanks included--appreciate this change. It's rare for me to come across someone who actually thinks that this change is bad.

This is one of the most hotly-anticipated features of this patch. There are a few detractors, yes, but that's to be expected. So, yes, ZOS did listen to feedback. They addressed one of the key pain points of players. Would it have been nice if they made it optional, to cater to those with exceptional visual acuity? Sure. But that's an extra layer of complexity.

And I have no idea why.

Your tank is going to constantly be pulling enemies out of AOE's. This makes no sense. Just seems like your trying to really spin a negative into a positive. If the visual effects are reduced, then why not just give a toggle? Reduced visual noise is one thing, but you should try to replace it with something. Like, say, a 'yellow' circle or two on the ground to represent allied AOE.

I'd also love to know who died and made you speaker for some majority you claim to speak for. Citation bloody needed.

@Doctordarkspawn Hmm, let's see here. You quit the game and don't even play it. You state proudly on the forums that you don't even do trials. You constantly complain that there is no good content for tanks, even though all of the best tank content are in the trials that you refuse to touch; e.g., in vHoF where everything hinges on the tanks, two good tanks can carry a mediocre group to a clear, but even the best DPS in the world can't clear if their two tanks aren't competent.

So what makes you--someone who is entirely disconnected from the game and have no idea what it is like "in the trenches"--more qualified than someone who is actively tanking endgame content and who knows a lot of other tanks? Every single endgame tank that I personally know looked forward to this change. Because there is still enough visual cue about where their ground effects are (it's not a complete removal) and because in general, it's our positioning that dictate the placement of their ground effects, not vice-versa.

So my question to you is, what makes you--the ZOS-can-do-nothing-right-forum-troll-who-doesn't-even-play--qualified to make judgment on the opinions of people who do actively tank?

On this issue, I have never made claims to what people in general think about this change. You have. But I have not and refuse to.

1. Not having an option isn't an excuse. Even if it is a graphics option, there's no reason this, much like the block-icon should not have an option. Much like the bow heavy attack before it, there's nothing that says you cant have an option. And if you have information that would point to why I urge you to share it.

2. As people have allready started, not knowing what buffs and debuffs people have put on the boss or in general hurts group cohesion. It's not just the grothdar procs. Things like, say, elemental drain. Is the healer puting it on or am I wasting my time as a DPS? (A hypothetical.)

These are the points, you can argue these points, or you can be disreguarded as someone with a vendetta. Which, given you tend to focus on me whenever we pay attention to the same thread, you seem to.

Thank god we dont need a qualification card to speak on these things, big brother. Thank god you cant shut everyone up who disagree's with you, by violently punching them across the face until they stop disagreeing with you. Sometimes, heavens forbid, a laymans view can speak volumes for perspective. And, heaven forbid, even though I have stopped playing regularly, I still like to keep track of the balance in case it gets -better- or more fun to play. Heaven forbid people dont love something unconditionally enough to defend it blindly and silence all decent against it.

Honest question: Why are you even here? Every single time I see you post, it's to criticize something that ZOS did. You hate this game. You hate the direction that this game has taken. You've quit the game as a result. So why are you still here, months after quitting, taking potshots every single opportunity you get? Is this more fun for you than actually playing the game?

I'm not saying that ZOS is flawless--hell, I've criticized them countless times--but they deserve credit where credit is due. And this change is one of the best changes they've made this patch. The visual effects are still there, just toned down substantially. It means it's easier to see mechanics. It means smoother performance. Have you actually tried it? If you had bothered to, you'd also know that Elemental Drain isn't even affected by this, contrary to your post. If you had bothered to, you'd see that all this is a non-issue because it's still pretty damn clear where that destro ult is without the cloud overhead and excessive sparkles. Instead, you don't play the game, you don't know what this change is actually like, and you barge into this thread like others for the sole purpose of attacking ZOS and the people who dare to actually give ZOS credit because of your vendetta. So, yes, I am very much irked by that, and yes, I am calling you out for it.

(And as I already said, an option would be nice, but that's extra UI to code, extra text to translate, extra cases that need to be tested by their QA team that evidently is overwhelmed because of all the things that are already being missed, so it's understandable if ZOS decided that it was not worth the effort, at least for now.)

I came here to give my feedback on some changes I disagreed with. That simple. The elemental drain thing, was an example. But you get the point, I think it hurts team cohesion.

If you wanna call me out, do it over a private message. These gigantic walls of text devoted to a personal vendetta have nothing to do with the thread and are spam. You are being disrespectfull to the people who actually wanna discuss this topic.

(Edited because something in another window made it over and the quote repeated. I forum gud.)

fioskal · August 2017

I love this change. Love love love it.

Game runs soooo much more smoothly, but you can still see enough of the effects to know where to stand/position things.

A toggle would be nice to give people the option, but I'd chose to have it turned off every time.

Mureel · August 2017

Peekachu99 wrote: »

Mureel wrote: »

Confirmed!

code65536 wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

We warned of this in the PTS.

Another classic example of ZOS not wanting your feedback.

Probably because the overwhelming majority--tanks included--appreciate this change. It's rare for me to come across someone who actually thinks that this change is bad.

This is one of the most hotly-anticipated features of this patch. There are a few detractors, yes, but that's to be expected. So, yes, ZOS did listen to feedback. They addressed one of the key pain points of players. Would it have been nice if they made it optional, to cater to those with exceptional visual acuity? Sure. But that's an extra layer of complexity.

OK how is it Extra Layer of Complexity? The effects are still there, you yourself just cannot see them. Helmet Switch same deal, or? If they can TURN IT OFF, then a switch to turn it on or off would be nice.

AS FOR OTHER TANKS: Unless there's AOE everywhere, y'all should NOT be moving the bosses at random times, and all AOES should be on the bosses AND adds together wherever possible. Tanks should in NO WAY be moving out of ults unless they were in the wrong place in the first place, and you shouldn't put your ults in the wrong place. Common sense solves 9/10 these issues.

Maybe you haven't played the latest dungeons, which require immense moveability and quick repositioning when tanking: minotaurs, dogs and at least 1/2 the bosses. Most of those movements are indeed "random" as determined by various mobs or targets unpredictable behaviour.

I SAID AT RANDOM TIMES - not random places as in: A DD should always drop ultis on tank boss & adds where possible, and THEN THEE TANK should not move at random times. It is NOT a random time from tank perspective, if a mechanic happens. That is moving with intent.

You know what I meant too, so don't nitpick.

victoriana-blue · August 2017

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

We warned of this in the PTS.

Another classic example of ZOS not wanting your feedback.

Probably because the overwhelming majority--tanks included--appreciate this change. It's rare for me to come across someone who actually thinks that this change is bad.

This is one of the most hotly-anticipated features of this patch. There are a few detractors, yes, but that's to be expected. So, yes, ZOS did listen to feedback. They addressed one of the key pain points of players. Would it have been nice if they made it optional, to cater to those with exceptional visual acuity? Sure. But that's an extra layer of complexity.

And I have no idea why.

Your tank is going to constantly be pulling enemies out of AOE's. This makes no sense. Just seems like your trying to really spin a negative into a positive. If the visual effects are reduced, then why not just give a toggle? Reduced visual noise is one thing, but you should try to replace it with something. Like, say, a 'yellow' circle or two on the ground to represent allied AOE.

I'd also love to know who died and made you speaker for some majority you claim to speak for. Citation bloody needed.

If your tank is constantly pulling bosses out of aoe, you've got bigger problems than visual effects.

I'm thinking of the speedy kite-tank, the fake group finder "tanks" with 2h equipped, and the dps who refuses to learn when a tank needs to move & whines when they waste their own resources. Not saying you're any of these, but I've run into them and they make running dungeons like WGT "interesting." Especially the whiny dps, when I drag bosses out of enemy aoe so that my melee teammates can actually attack...

(As a data point, I like the change and it makes me want to get back into trials tanking - the sustain nerfs hit my nb tank hard, but being able to clearly see boss attacks beyond interrupt & block cues should help me out.)

Riptide · August 2017

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

If you wanna call me out, do it over a private message. These gigantic walls of text devoted to a personal vendetta have nothing to do with the thread and are spam. You are being disrespectfull to the people who actually wanna discuss this topic.

You came into this thread swinging, as usual, and now trying to play the victim. Poor you.

The operative bit about visual cues really is that those can and do go off where the tank puts something. I can't imagine dealing with mechanics and chasing people's dots. Be a soup sandwich right quick. If I move a boss, its because I need to move it. Adjust. No decent tank is going to move a boss around randomlike, we're not taking a selfie.

Thalmor-Nordmaster · August 2017

Tank pugged some dungeons today. I could see some heals and an ult or two. The change in visuals is going to take me some time to get used to. I went to the Halkreth Hold dungeon and promptly got my A$$ handed to me by a Minotaur just as I reached the first obj. I think I should get used to the new visuals before I try that again.

Pele · August 2017

Tank here. I'm in a group 90% of my playtime. Yes, there are times when I don't want to see a million effects in my face when I'm tanking. But there are also times when I actually want to see group effects because shiny. Also, I find the visual cues helpful and a time saver when trying to coordinate groups with no voice comms (points at Group Finder and waves at PvP).

ESO is much more than trials, dungeons, and tanking, so I'd like a toggle to turn on group effects if I want them.

-->
As an aside, I've never had hardware performance issues with effects firing off like crazy even at dolmens where it looks like the 4th of July and New Year's combined. I'm wondering if this change is the only solution to a core game issue(s) that has a much broader reach than just improving visual clutter because I don't see any other reason it's not optional.

baratron · August 2017

Peekachu99 wrote: »

Path of Darkness and Rune Focus both have beneficial effects and it's quite stupid if they're actually hidden. Is this a typo? I haven't tested these abilities yet. And again, even if you like these changes, they're clearly aimed at streamlining console performance and have absolutely no place in PC gaming as an "enforced"
setting. The whole idea behind PC gaming is scalability and options to improve, or take a hit on, performance.

This needs to be swapped to a toggle, asap.

Path of Darkness heals allies, at least in one morph. (I play Nightblade the least out of the five classes, so I am the least familiar with their skills.)

Rune Focus has no benefit to allies. Each Templar has to run their own "Templar house" in order to benefit from the skill. I am delighted that I won't be accidentally standing in someone else's "house" by mistake with this change.

Danksta · August 2017

As a console player I'm excited to see how this change will improve performance in trials, but I always say options aren't a bad thing.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · August 2017

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

We warned of this in the PTS.

Another classic example of ZOS not wanting your feedback.

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

We warned of this in the PTS.

Another classic example of ZOS not wanting your feedback.

Probably because the overwhelming majority--tanks included--appreciate this change. It's rare for me to come across someone who actually thinks that this change is bad.

This is one of the most hotly-anticipated features of this patch. There are a few detractors, yes, but that's to be expected. So, yes, ZOS did listen to feedback. They addressed one of the key pain points of players. Would it have been nice if they made it optional, to cater to those with exceptional visual acuity? Sure. But that's an extra layer of complexity.

And I have no idea why.

Your tank is going to constantly be pulling enemies out of AOE's. This makes no sense. Just seems like your trying to really spin a negative into a positive. If the visual effects are reduced, then why not just give a toggle? Reduced visual noise is one thing, but you should try to replace it with something. Like, say, a 'yellow' circle or two on the ground to represent allied AOE.

I'd also love to know who died and made you speaker for some majority you claim to speak for. Citation bloody needed.

@Doctordarkspawn Hmm, let's see here. You quit the game and don't even play it. You state proudly on the forums that you don't even do trials. You constantly complain that there is no good content for tanks, even though all of the best tank content are in the trials that you refuse to touch; e.g., in vHoF where everything hinges on the tanks, two good tanks can carry a mediocre group to a clear, but even the best DPS in the world can't clear if their two tanks aren't competent.

So what makes you--someone who is entirely disconnected from the game and have no idea what it is like "in the trenches"--more qualified than someone who is actively tanking endgame content and who knows a lot of other tanks? Every single endgame tank that I personally know looked forward to this change. Because there is still enough visual cue about where their ground effects are (it's not a complete removal) and because in general, it's our positioning that dictate the placement of their ground effects, not vice-versa.

So my question to you is, what makes you--the ZOS-can-do-nothing-right-forum-troll-who-doesn't-even-play--qualified to make judgment on the opinions of people who do actively tank?

On this issue, I have never made claims to what people in general think about this change. You have. But I have not and refuse to.

@Doctordarkspawn
These two statements are in direct conflict. You claim "we" warned them about this on PTS. Then you say you dont want to make claims about what people think of the changes. The reality is that the vast majority of PTS players (certainly not everyone) were very excited about this.

But since you like to overgeneralize, here are some broad statements for you: Everyone here knows you didnt spend a minute on the PTS. Everyone knows you have never tanked an end game trial in your life. Everyone knows you a hate this game and no longer play it. Everyone knows what you think of ZOS. Everyone knows you are nothing more than a bitter troll. For the love of god, just leave the forums. I have never seen any meaningful contributions come from your tired rantings.

Every legitimate end-game tank I have talked to, and for that matter, every end-game player I have talked to has welcomed this change with open arms. Frame rates in trials have noticeably improved, which is an issue that you are simply not qualified to discuss as you, by your own admission, dont play them.

@code65536
Not the first time I have fallen down this particular rabbit hole, but I know its sometimes hard to refrain from feeding the trolls.

Peekachu99 · August 2017

baratron wrote: »

Peekachu99 wrote: »

Path of Darkness and Rune Focus both have beneficial effects and it's quite stupid if they're actually hidden. Is this a typo? I haven't tested these abilities yet. And again, even if you like these changes, they're clearly aimed at streamlining console performance and have absolutely no place in PC gaming as an "enforced"
setting. The whole idea behind PC gaming is scalability and options to improve, or take a hit on, performance.

This needs to be swapped to a toggle, asap.

Path of Darkness heals allies, at least in one morph. (I play Nightblade the least out of the five classes, so I am the least familiar with their skills.)

Rune Focus has no benefit to allies. Each Templar has to run their own "Templar house" in order to benefit from the skill. I am delighted that I won't be accidentally standing in someone else's "house" by mistake with this change.

Everyone who steps into the circle gets major ward. How is that of no benefit to allies?

FakeFox · August 2017

As far as I know it's server-sided, so you could't make it optional since the information isn't even sent. I could be wrong since I'm not a expert on this but that's how it was explained to me.

In terms of ping and framerate it changed nothing for me. I didn't have any problems before, but frames and ping are exactly the same as before.

MrBetadine · August 2017

FakeFox wrote: »

As far as I know it's server-sided, so you could't make it optional since the information isn't even sent. I could be wrong since I'm not a expert on this but that's how it was explained to me.

In terms of ping and framerate it changed nothing for me. I didn't have any problems before, but frames and ping are exactly the same as before.

Why is it server-sided? My ally cast a spell, the server tells my client that, and my client display that information.

Caligamy_ESO · August 2017

As a tank I am looking for the disagree button, as a Domihaus sorc I kinda wanna click agree so everyone can behold my gigantic burning circle of fiery death.

No but seriously it was freakin hard to see which enemies were taunted + what I was standing in + what to block when there are lightning and fire storms on my face + caltrops scattered everywhere + elemental blockades sparkling and sending cinders into my eyes + 11,462 procs happening in varying spots and their accompanying effects when impacting mobs. *takes a breath*

This change is nice, but at the same time kind of a bummer in other aspects. I could agree to a toggle option but for performance and my eyeballs sake I love it as it is now.

DoccEff · August 2017

I just want this to be a toggle option. Just allow me to see what is happening around me, and if other players don't want to see it, let them turn it of.
It could be so easy.

Peekachu99 · August 2017

Mureel wrote: »

Peekachu99 wrote: »

Mureel wrote: »

Confirmed!

code65536 wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

We warned of this in the PTS.

Another classic example of ZOS not wanting your feedback.

Probably because the overwhelming majority--tanks included--appreciate this change. It's rare for me to come across someone who actually thinks that this change is bad.

This is one of the most hotly-anticipated features of this patch. There are a few detractors, yes, but that's to be expected. So, yes, ZOS did listen to feedback. They addressed one of the key pain points of players. Would it have been nice if they made it optional, to cater to those with exceptional visual acuity? Sure. But that's an extra layer of complexity.

OK how is it Extra Layer of Complexity? The effects are still there, you yourself just cannot see them. Helmet Switch same deal, or? If they can TURN IT OFF, then a switch to turn it on or off would be nice.

AS FOR OTHER TANKS: Unless there's AOE everywhere, y'all should NOT be moving the bosses at random times, and all AOES should be on the bosses AND adds together wherever possible. Tanks should in NO WAY be moving out of ults unless they were in the wrong place in the first place, and you shouldn't put your ults in the wrong place. Common sense solves 9/10 these issues.

Maybe you haven't played the latest dungeons, which require immense moveability and quick repositioning when tanking: minotaurs, dogs and at least 1/2 the bosses. Most of those movements are indeed "random" as determined by various mobs or targets unpredictable behaviour.

I SAID AT RANDOM TIMES - not random places as in: A DD should always drop ultis on tank boss & adds where possible, and THEN THEE TANK should not move at random times. It is NOT a random time from tank perspective, if a mechanic happens. That is moving with intent.

You know what I meant too, so don't nitpick.

A mechanic that involves RNG/ chance and the random selection of a party member is, indeed, random, occurring at an unset interval, and subsequent reactions will therefore be on a whim. By definition these occurrences are random times Lord Warden machine gunning someone is another example of a tank needing maneuverability to dodge portals and soak. Very little in that fight follows a specific placement or pattern (though trying to keep the balls out of the middle is a good idea). Until this patch, RoM's lizard dude wiped aggro a bunch of times and still targets a random party member with his charge. The consequences of these events are reactionary and not precisely predictable.

Tanks are quite mobile in most of the end game content, and Tanknspank fights are few and far between in recent content. It therefore becomes rather easy, and sometimes necessary (for survival) to move a boss out of an aoe placement that cannot be seen.

Dymence · August 2017

Kammakazi wrote: »

PvE'rs complaining about low frames during trials

ZoS fixes

PvE'rs still complaining

Too bad it didn't change anything regarding low FPS in trials.

The low FPS is due to the potato servers and the data stream of all the abilities.

Cpt_Ati · August 2017

Zedrian wrote: »

On PS4 the framerate drops significantly in trials and especially in vHOF. In fact the biggest challenge on console is not the trials mechanics but bugs (Lightning HA movement bug, visual effects bugs) and poor server, network, and console performance. the magicka nightblades would complain that one light attack out of two would actually trigger.

Also as the tank on Pinnacle factotum, the amount of lightning effects is exaggerated to the point where it was extremely difficult to the tell which of the 4 shadows had this light smoke effect during the shadow phase. (I wish they made that smoke effect more apparent somehow). Nevertheless we found a counter play.... but after 4-5 tries my eyes are tired.

We hope this change will significantly improve the gameplay on console.

so thats the reason i cant proc my merciless resolve ?

Inarre · August 2017

The thing i find curious is there is now options to change the colour of cues on your screen. As in, you can change the red circles impending doom to a bright, cotton candy pink if you like. The interesting thing is you can also change the colour of friendly indicators. I changed mine to a nice vibrant teal, but i have yet to see this colour anywhere after running several dungeons.

Its like zos was going to implement friendly ground skill indicators (would help as an indicator for where we tanks and healers need to focus) but then simply just nerfed sparkles and forgot to turn this on.

Doctordarkspawn · August 2017

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

We warned of this in the PTS.

Another classic example of ZOS not wanting your feedback.

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

We warned of this in the PTS.

Another classic example of ZOS not wanting your feedback.

Probably because the overwhelming majority--tanks included--appreciate this change. It's rare for me to come across someone who actually thinks that this change is bad.

This is one of the most hotly-anticipated features of this patch. There are a few detractors, yes, but that's to be expected. So, yes, ZOS did listen to feedback. They addressed one of the key pain points of players. Would it have been nice if they made it optional, to cater to those with exceptional visual acuity? Sure. But that's an extra layer of complexity.

And I have no idea why.

Your tank is going to constantly be pulling enemies out of AOE's. This makes no sense. Just seems like your trying to really spin a negative into a positive. If the visual effects are reduced, then why not just give a toggle? Reduced visual noise is one thing, but you should try to replace it with something. Like, say, a 'yellow' circle or two on the ground to represent allied AOE.

I'd also love to know who died and made you speaker for some majority you claim to speak for. Citation bloody needed.

@Doctordarkspawn Hmm, let's see here. You quit the game and don't even play it. You state proudly on the forums that you don't even do trials. You constantly complain that there is no good content for tanks, even though all of the best tank content are in the trials that you refuse to touch; e.g., in vHoF where everything hinges on the tanks, two good tanks can carry a mediocre group to a clear, but even the best DPS in the world can't clear if their two tanks aren't competent.

So what makes you--someone who is entirely disconnected from the game and have no idea what it is like "in the trenches"--more qualified than someone who is actively tanking endgame content and who knows a lot of other tanks? Every single endgame tank that I personally know looked forward to this change. Because there is still enough visual cue about where their ground effects are (it's not a complete removal) and because in general, it's our positioning that dictate the placement of their ground effects, not vice-versa.

So my question to you is, what makes you--the ZOS-can-do-nothing-right-forum-troll-who-doesn't-even-play--qualified to make judgment on the opinions of people who do actively tank?

On this issue, I have never made claims to what people in general think about this change. You have. But I have not and refuse to.

@Doctordarkspawn
These two statements are in direct conflict. You claim "we" warned them about this on PTS. Then you say you dont want to make claims about what people think of the changes. The reality is that the vast majority of PTS players (certainly not everyone) were very excited about this.

But since you like to overgeneralize, here are some broad statements for you: Everyone here knows you didnt spend a minute on the PTS. Everyone knows you have never tanked an end game trial in your life. Everyone knows you a hate this game and no longer play it. Everyone knows what you think of ZOS. Everyone knows you are nothing more than a bitter troll. For the love of god, just leave the forums. I have never seen any meaningful contributions come from your tired rantings.

Every legitimate end-game tank I have talked to, and for that matter, every end-game player I have talked to has welcomed this change with open arms. Frame rates in trials have noticeably improved, which is an issue that you are simply not qualified to discuss as you, by your own admission, dont play them.

@code65536
Not the first time I have fallen down this particular rabbit hole, but I know its sometimes hard to refrain from feeding the trolls.

People did in fact warn them about this on the PTS. I was one of them. There was negative feedback there, I believe the thread is still up and you can go look at it. Plenty of people disagreed then, allthough it was far from the longest of the feedback chains. The fact this thread exists, shows people still disagree with it.

It is true, that I did not play on the PTS. I typically dont anymore considering ZOS's knack for outright over-riding or ignoring feedback, like they did with the last minute changes this update. However, what isn't true is that you've never seen any meaningful contributions come from my 'tired rantings'.

You can go ahed and call me a troll, along with this apparent harassment group you lot have cultivated, but I'm not going anywhere until the moderators force me out. I will continue to give people the honest truth: That if you want change, a financial impact must be made upon ZOS as a company. And I will not stop on your account.

Sorry to disappoint you.

idk · August 2017

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

We warned of this in the PTS.

Another classic example of ZOS not wanting your feedback.

Probably because the overwhelming majority--tanks included--appreciate this change. It's rare for me to come across someone who actually thinks that this change is bad.

This is one of the most hotly-anticipated features of this patch. There are a few detractors, yes, but that's to be expected. So, yes, ZOS did listen to feedback. They addressed one of the key pain points of players. Would it have been nice if they made it optional, to cater to those with exceptional visual acuity? Sure. But that's an extra layer of complexity.

And I have no idea why.

Your tank is going to constantly be pulling enemies out of AOE's. This makes no sense. Just seems like your trying to really spin a negative into a positive. If the visual effects are reduced, then why not just give a toggle? Reduced visual noise is one thing, but you should try to replace it with something. Like, say, a 'yellow' circle or two on the ground to represent allied AOE.

I'd also love to know who died and made you speaker for some majority you claim to speak for. Citation bloody needed.

@Doctordarkspawn

My guess is you haven't main ranked second boss in vHoF. If you read through Codes posts I think he specifically mentioned that, and that he can still tell, visually, where dps laid their dots.

Further, why is the tank moving a boss in the first place. Unless there is a mechanic forcing the move there is no reason for the tank to move.

Edit: after reading more of this thread I call into question your experience in this game.

What vet content have you cleared as a tank? My guess is nothing on the newer side. Especially since an experiend tank would not have issues with this change.

Doctordarkspawn · August 2017

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

We warned of this in the PTS.

Another classic example of ZOS not wanting your feedback.

Probably because the overwhelming majority--tanks included--appreciate this change. It's rare for me to come across someone who actually thinks that this change is bad.

This is one of the most hotly-anticipated features of this patch. There are a few detractors, yes, but that's to be expected. So, yes, ZOS did listen to feedback. They addressed one of the key pain points of players. Would it have been nice if they made it optional, to cater to those with exceptional visual acuity? Sure. But that's an extra layer of complexity.

And I have no idea why.

Your tank is going to constantly be pulling enemies out of AOE's. This makes no sense. Just seems like your trying to really spin a negative into a positive. If the visual effects are reduced, then why not just give a toggle? Reduced visual noise is one thing, but you should try to replace it with something. Like, say, a 'yellow' circle or two on the ground to represent allied AOE.

I'd also love to know who died and made you speaker for some majority you claim to speak for. Citation bloody needed.

@Doctordarkspawn

My guess is you haven't main ranked second boss in vHoF. If you read through Codes posts I think he specifically mentioned that, and that he can still tell, visually, where dps laid their dots.

Further, why is the tank moving a boss in the first place. Unless there is a mechanic forcing the move there is no reason for the tank to move.

In that senario, the tank might move the boss for any number of reasons but not be able to see where the AOE is to keep them there.

I've since done both the dungeons and yeah, there is enough visual indication to see where it is. I still disagree with the change however. Maybe this is because I played a more support focused tank than others have. Then again, that playstyle is slowly dying as the pidgeon holes ZOS has instated have become increasingly rigid.

I still stand by a toggle. There's no arguement you can present to me besides laziness that a toggle couldn't be instated.

capper123 · August 2017

the only place i like this is in so, there was so much on screen i fell in holes already lol.

idk · August 2017

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

We warned of this in the PTS.

Another classic example of ZOS not wanting your feedback.

Probably because the overwhelming majority--tanks included--appreciate this change. It's rare for me to come across someone who actually thinks that this change is bad.

This is one of the most hotly-anticipated features of this patch. There are a few detractors, yes, but that's to be expected. So, yes, ZOS did listen to feedback. They addressed one of the key pain points of players. Would it have been nice if they made it optional, to cater to those with exceptional visual acuity? Sure. But that's an extra layer of complexity.

And I have no idea why.

Your tank is going to constantly be pulling enemies out of AOE's. This makes no sense. Just seems like your trying to really spin a negative into a positive. If the visual effects are reduced, then why not just give a toggle? Reduced visual noise is one thing, but you should try to replace it with something. Like, say, a 'yellow' circle or two on the ground to represent allied AOE.

I'd also love to know who died and made you speaker for some majority you claim to speak for. Citation bloody needed.

@Doctordarkspawn

My guess is you haven't main ranked second boss in vHoF. If you read through Codes posts I think he specifically mentioned that, and that he can still tell, visually, where dps laid their dots.

Further, why is the tank moving a boss in the first place. Unless there is a mechanic forcing the move there is no reason for the tank to move.

In that senario, the tank might move the boss for any number of reasons but not be able to see where the AOE is to keep them there.

I've since done both the dungeons and yeah, there is enough visual indication to see where it is. I still disagree with the change however. Maybe this is because I played a more support focused tank than others have. Then again, that playstyle is slowly dying as the pidgeon holes ZOS has instated have become increasingly rigid.

I still stand by a toggle. There's no arguement you can present to me besides laziness that a toggle couldn't be instated.

You do not list a valid reason because there is no reason for the tank to move a boss other than to dealing with mechanics, or the tank does not know what their doing. There is a 100% guarantee AoE is under the boss except when the boss is being moved.

Plain and simple. If you have cleared any of the last 2 trials in vet this would be very clear.