As a tank, I wish ZOS revert the change to group skill effects, or at least make it optional

MrBetadine

In an effort to reduce the visual effect noise in group combat situations, we’ve hidden most visual effects from persistent damaging area of effect abilities cast by your allies. Area of effect abilities that have a synergy, healing, or defensive component that can benefit you will still be visible, and area of effect abilities cast by enemies will also still be visible.
Affected player abilities include the following:
Ash Cloud and its morphs
Caltrops and its morphs
Elemental Storm and its morphs
Hurricane
Impaling Shards and its morphs
Path of Darkness and the Twisting Path morph
Rune Focus and its morphs
Scorch
Volatile Familiar Special Ability
Volley and its morphs
Wall of Elements and its morphs
Affected Item Set abilities include the following:
Bahraha’s Curse
Essence Thief
Grothdarr
Hand of Mephala
Ilambris
Infernal Guardian
Leeching Plate
Nerien’eth
Sellistrix
Sheer Venom
Storm Knight’s Plate
Thunderbug’s Carapace
Tremorscale
Velidreth
Winterborn
Developer Comments:
Spoilerhide
Having less visual effects on your screen improves both visual clarity and performance, which makes it easier to respond to the more important visuals that come from enemy attacks.

Right now I cant even reliably see where my ally cast an Elemental Storm ability. The whiriwind is still there, but the lightning effect is gone, making it very hard to notice. Why dont give us the CHOICE? I dont want less 'visual noise', my brain and eye can manage to process that much information.

notimetocare

MrBetadine wrote: »

In an effort to reduce the visual effect noise in group combat situations, we’ve hidden most visual effects from persistent damaging area of effect abilities cast by your allies. Area of effect abilities that have a synergy, healing, or defensive component that can benefit you will still be visible, and area of effect abilities cast by enemies will also still be visible.
Affected player abilities include the following:
Ash Cloud and its morphs
Caltrops and its morphs
Elemental Storm and its morphs
Hurricane
Impaling Shards and its morphs
Path of Darkness and the Twisting Path morph
Rune Focus and its morphs
Scorch
Volatile Familiar Special Ability
Volley and its morphs
Wall of Elements and its morphs
Affected Item Set abilities include the following:
Bahraha’s Curse
Essence Thief
Grothdarr
Hand of Mephala
Ilambris
Infernal Guardian
Leeching Plate
Nerien’eth
Sellistrix
Sheer Venom
Storm Knight’s Plate
Thunderbug’s Carapace
Tremorscale
Velidreth
Winterborn
Developer Comments:
Spoilerhide
Having less visual effects on your screen improves both visual clarity and performance, which makes it easier to respond to the more important visuals that come from enemy attacks.

Right now I cant even reliably see where my ally cast an Elemental Storm ability. The whiriwind is still there, but the lightning effect is gone, making it very hard to notice. Why dont give us the CHOICE? I dont want less 'visual noise', my brain and eye can manage to process that much information.

Because it is also a server load issue. The eyestrain is actually wholly irrelevant

code65536

There is more than enough visual cue for me to see where the ground DoTs are.

It's just not ridiculously excessive like before. If you've ever had to tank the split mechanic on vHoF 2nd boss, you'll appreciate how much of a godsend this change is.

Alchemical

As a healer, second this. Both my brain and my computer can handle obscene amounts of lightning effects just fine.

I know it doesn't effect healing abilities, but it does effect some of my DD skills, + I want to know where my allies are putting their debuffs so I know where to place my healing ones. It's a minor inconvenience, but if my PC can handle it, I don't know why the effects are forcibly turned down for me too. Agree it should be optional.

MrBetadine

notimetocare wrote: »

MrBetadine wrote: »

In an effort to reduce the visual effect noise in group combat situations, we’ve hidden most visual effects from persistent damaging area of effect abilities cast by your allies. Area of effect abilities that have a synergy, healing, or defensive component that can benefit you will still be visible, and area of effect abilities cast by enemies will also still be visible.
Affected player abilities include the following:
Ash Cloud and its morphs
Caltrops and its morphs
Elemental Storm and its morphs
Hurricane
Impaling Shards and its morphs
Path of Darkness and the Twisting Path morph
Rune Focus and its morphs
Scorch
Volatile Familiar Special Ability
Volley and its morphs
Wall of Elements and its morphs
Affected Item Set abilities include the following:
Bahraha’s Curse
Essence Thief
Grothdarr
Hand of Mephala
Ilambris
Infernal Guardian
Leeching Plate
Nerien’eth
Sellistrix
Sheer Venom
Storm Knight’s Plate
Thunderbug’s Carapace
Tremorscale
Velidreth
Winterborn
Developer Comments:
Spoilerhide
Having less visual effects on your screen improves both visual clarity and performance, which makes it easier to respond to the more important visuals that come from enemy attacks.

Right now I cant even reliably see where my ally cast an Elemental Storm ability. The whiriwind is still there, but the lightning effect is gone, making it very hard to notice. Why dont give us the CHOICE? I dont want less 'visual noise', my brain and eye can manage to process that much information.

Because it is also a server load issue. The eyestrain is actually wholly irrelevant

How is it a server load issue? The information indicating that an ally cast an ability is still sent to me, my client simply display this information in the form of a visual cue. If anything, it should be my computer processing issue.

MrBetadine

code65536 wrote: »

There is more than enough visual cue for me to see where the ground DoTs are.

It's just not ridiculously excessive like before. If you've ever had to tank the split mechanic on vHoF 2nd boss, you'll appreciate how much of a godsend this change is.

Like I said, make it optional.

Jhalin

notimetocare wrote: »

Because it is also a server load issue. The eyestrain is actually wholly irrelevant

It's not a server issue at all. Graphics are all processed client-side. That's why frame rate is determined by your hardware, not ZOS's crap servers. They're still processing every bit of data regarding those abilities and their damage/location/duration, but they've never been responsible for displaying graphics.

Doctordarkspawn

We warned of this in the PTS.

Another classic example of ZOS not wanting your feedback.

Peekachu99

It should be optional, period. Group combat looks sooo bland now. I don't know why it wasn't just a performance toggle.

code65536

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

We warned of this in the PTS.

Another classic example of ZOS not wanting your feedback.

Probably because the overwhelming majority--tanks included--appreciate this change. It's rare for me to come across someone who actually thinks that this change is bad.

This is one of the most hotly-anticipated features of this patch. There are a few detractors, yes, but that's to be expected. So, yes, ZOS did listen to feedback. They addressed one of the key pain points of players. Would it have been nice if they made it optional, to cater to those with exceptional visual acuity? Sure. But that's an extra layer of complexity.

MrBetadine

code65536 wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

We warned of this in the PTS.

Another classic example of ZOS not wanting your feedback.

Probably because the overwhelming majority--tanks included--appreciate this change. It's rare for me to come across someone who actually thinks that this change is bad.

This is one of the most hotly-anticipated features of this patch. There are a few detractors, yes, but that's to be expected. So, yes, ZOS did listen to feedback. They addressed one of the key pain points of players. Would it have been nice if they made it optional, to cater to those with exceptional visual acuity? Sure. But that's an extra layer of complexity.

i won't consider an 'if' statement a layer of complexity. This is the most most basic thing in any programming language.

Doctordarkspawn

code65536 wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

We warned of this in the PTS.

Another classic example of ZOS not wanting your feedback.

Probably because the overwhelming majority--tanks included--appreciate this change. It's rare for me to come across someone who actually thinks that this change is bad.

This is one of the most hotly-anticipated features of this patch. There are a few detractors, yes, but that's to be expected. So, yes, ZOS did listen to feedback. They addressed one of the key pain points of players. Would it have been nice if they made it optional, to cater to those with exceptional visual acuity? Sure. But that's an extra layer of complexity.

And I have no idea why.

Your tank is going to constantly be pulling enemies out of AOE's. This makes no sense. Just seems like your trying to really spin a negative into a positive. If the visual effects are reduced, then why not just give a toggle? Reduced visual noise is one thing, but you should try to replace it with something. Like, say, a 'yellow' circle or two on the ground to represent allied AOE.

I'd also love to know who died and made you speaker for some majority you claim to speak for. Citation bloody needed.

Tan9oSuccka

code65536 wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

We warned of this in the PTS.

Another classic example of ZOS not wanting your feedback.

Probably because the overwhelming majority--tanks included--appreciate this change. It's rare for me to come across someone who actually thinks that this change is bad.

This is one of the most hotly-anticipated features of this patch. There are a few detractors, yes, but that's to be expected. So, yes, ZOS did listen to feedback. They addressed one of the key pain points of players. Would it have been nice if they made it optional, to cater to those with exceptional visual acuity? Sure. But that's an extra layer of complexity.

Yes. Tanking LLambrith twins on Crypt with multiple Grothdaar users is really craptastic.

I welcome this change. I can turn off friendly procs.

lonewolf26

MrBetadine wrote: »

i won't consider an 'if' statement a layer of complexity. This is the most most basic thing in any programming language.

Cyclomatic complexity is determined by the number and depth of conditional statements.

Kneighbors

Not only this, I want to actually see what my teammates cast, how fr'qly, their proc sets etc... This change simply disconects tank from the team.

MrBetadine

lonewolf26 wrote: »

MrBetadine wrote: »

i won't consider an 'if' statement a layer of complexity. This is the most most basic thing in any programming language.

Cyclomatic complexity is determined by the number and depth of conditional statements.

Learn something everyday. But I propose simply replace the original 'display cue' code with an 'if' statement. I cant see anything would make it hard. The link you provided is a theory, which applies to some extremely complicated functions or subroutines, which isn't the case here. I'm by no means an expert in programming, but I've written my fair share of scientific computation code, therefore I know the basics of programming.

MrBetadine

Tan9oSuccka wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

We warned of this in the PTS.

Another classic example of ZOS not wanting your feedback.

Probably because the overwhelming majority--tanks included--appreciate this change. It's rare for me to come across someone who actually thinks that this change is bad.

This is one of the most hotly-anticipated features of this patch. There are a few detractors, yes, but that's to be expected. So, yes, ZOS did listen to feedback. They addressed one of the key pain points of players. Would it have been nice if they made it optional, to cater to those with exceptional visual acuity? Sure. But that's an extra layer of complexity.

Yes. Tanking LLambrith twins on Crypt with multiple Grothdaar users is really craptastic.

I welcome this change. I can turn off friendly procs.

Now that they allow us to increase the brightness of enemy AOE effects, I don't see an issue with multiple Grothdarr any more.

Liofa

I LOVE this change . Do you know what it feels like to select the correct clone when 2nd boss in vHoF does the split mechanic while there are 2+ lightning destro ultis , few lightning ilambris procs and several lightning blockades ? It is like finding a needle in a haystack .

I would like it to be optional as well but I am definitely ok with whatever .

DarkAedin

The lighting patch strikes again!

This change suuuuuuuuuuucckkkks
Tanks constantly pulling out of my aoe cuz they dont see it.
Zos. Ya dun effed it up.

MrBetadine

Liofa wrote: »

I LOVE this change . Do you know what it feels like to select the correct clone when 2nd boss in vHoF does the split mechanic while there are 2+ lightning destro ultis , few lightning ilambris procs and several lightning blockades ? It is like finding a needle in a haystack .

I would like it to be optional as well but I am definitely ok with whatever .

It looks like this second boss of HOF is the main reason for not liking the original visual cue? Since several people have mentioned it. Then maybe it's the boss design issue, not the other way around.

Seri

MrBetadine wrote: »

lonewolf26 wrote: »

MrBetadine wrote: »

i won't consider an 'if' statement a layer of complexity. This is the most most basic thing in any programming language.

Cyclomatic complexity is determined by the number and depth of conditional statements.

Learn something everyday. But I propose simply replace the original 'display cue' code with an 'if' statement. I cant see anything would make it hard. The link you provided is a theory, which applies to some extremely complicated functions or subroutines, which isn't the case here. I'm by no means an expert in programming, but I've written my fair share of scientific computation code, therefore I know the basics of programming.

As someone who _is_ a professional code monkey, it's less about that being a simple replacement, but every other tweak or change or conditional also there (eg, are we over particle effect limit, within draw distance, (now) is it enemy or ally, which texture do we use (high/low), and so on).

Ultimately I agree that an option would be awesome (even for DPS in dugeons so can alternate ults rather than dumping both sets on the same trash) and I would usually prefer to have it displaying allies effects.

Norn

MrBetadine wrote: »

Liofa wrote: »

I LOVE this change . Do you know what it feels like to select the correct clone when 2nd boss in vHoF does the split mechanic while there are 2+ lightning destro ultis , few lightning ilambris procs and several lightning blockades ? It is like finding a needle in a haystack .

I would like it to be optional as well but I am definitely ok with whatever .

It looks like this second boss of HOF is the main reason for not liking the original visual cue? Since several people have mentioned it. Then maybe it's the boss design issue, not the other way around.

It's just a good example that's it.

Most of the skills listed there, tank doesn't really need to see any of them. Once you go into a trial, huge majority of the time tank and boss positioning is set in stone anyway. As a tank, I'm glad that they've done this. Ideally it would have been good if it was a toggleable feature just to keep others happy. But in the end if it's a choice between on and off, I very much prefer off at the expense of happiness of other people ^^

Plus this change helps with server load, FPS issues and as well video recording.

Kammakazi

PvE'rs complaining about low frames during trials

ZoS fixes

PvE'rs still complaining

MrBetadine

Kammakazi wrote: »

PvE'rs complaining about low frames during trials

ZoS fixes

PvE'rs still complaining

Not every PVEer play trials.

Making it optional toggle would be nice.

Vaoh

So glad I'm not a PvE tank rn. It's astounding that this isn't a toggled option.

Magdalina

I really don't understand what it is that ZOS has against toggles. There're SO many argueably QoL additions that'd actually be QoL if they were effing toggles. The transparent shield you see when blocking. The heavy attacks making your pets attack your target, overriding other commands. Now this. Why not just make them toggles? My limited knowledge in programming is telling me it should take a whole lot of, like, 1 line of code.

RoamingRiverElk

There really needs to be a toggle for this. Not having it as an option hinders teamwork both in PvE AND PvP.

Peekachu99

Path of Darkness and Rune Focus both have beneficial effects and it's quite stupid if they're actually hidden. Is this a typo? I haven't tested these abilities yet. And again, even if you like these changes, they're clearly aimed at streamlining console performance and have absolutely no place in PC gaming as an "enforced"
setting. The whole idea behind PC gaming is scalability and options to improve, or take a hit on, performance.

This needs to be swapped to a toggle, asap.

Peekachu99

Kammakazi wrote: »

PvE'rs complaining about low frames during trials

ZoS fixes

PvE'rs still complaining

People on PC whingeing about low FPS need a better rig and they know it. This is a console "fix".

Zedrian

On PS4 the framerate drops significantly in trials and especially in vHOF. In fact the biggest challenge on console is not the trials mechanics but bugs (Lightning HA movement bug, visual effects bugs) and poor server, network, and console performance. the magicka nightblades would complain that one light attack out of two would actually trigger.

Also as the tank on Pinnacle factotum, the amount of lightning effects is exaggerated to the point where it was extremely difficult to the tell which of the 4 shadows had this light smoke effect during the shadow phase. (I wish they made that smoke effect more apparent somehow). Nevertheless we found a counter play.... but after 4-5 tries my eyes are tired.

We hope this change will significantly improve the gameplay on console.

code65536

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

We warned of this in the PTS.

Another classic example of ZOS not wanting your feedback.

Probably because the overwhelming majority--tanks included--appreciate this change. It's rare for me to come across someone who actually thinks that this change is bad.

This is one of the most hotly-anticipated features of this patch. There are a few detractors, yes, but that's to be expected. So, yes, ZOS did listen to feedback. They addressed one of the key pain points of players. Would it have been nice if they made it optional, to cater to those with exceptional visual acuity? Sure. But that's an extra layer of complexity.

And I have no idea why.

Your tank is going to constantly be pulling enemies out of AOE's. This makes no sense. Just seems like your trying to really spin a negative into a positive. If the visual effects are reduced, then why not just give a toggle? Reduced visual noise is one thing, but you should try to replace it with something. Like, say, a 'yellow' circle or two on the ground to represent allied AOE.

I'd also love to know who died and made you speaker for some majority you claim to speak for. Citation bloody needed.

@Doctordarkspawn Hmm, let's see here. You quit the game and don't even play it. You state proudly on the forums that you don't even do trials. You constantly complain that there is no good content for tanks, even though all of the best tank content are in the trials that you refuse to touch; e.g., in vHoF where everything hinges on the tanks, two good tanks can carry a mediocre group to a clear, but even the best DPS in the world can't clear if their two tanks aren't competent.

So what makes you--someone who is entirely disconnected from the game and have no idea what it is like "in the trenches"--more qualified than someone who is actively tanking endgame content and who knows a lot of other tanks? Every single endgame tank that I personally know looked forward to this change. Because there is still enough visual cue about where their ground effects are (it's not a complete removal) and because in general, it's our positioning that dictate the placement of their ground effects, not vice-versa.

So my question to you is, what makes you--the ZOS-can-do-nothing-right-forum-troll-who-doesn't-even-play--qualified to make judgment on the opinions of people who do actively tank?