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What was the point Zenimax?
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NukeAllTheThings✭✭✭✭✭ConnorWoods wrote: »Scyantific wrote: »The point was to test / get feedback surely and thus react to it. What can they do. Its a self fulfilling problem when forums / reddit push a new meta before its even launched.
This man speaks 100% truth. PTS is for testing and making sure everything works properly, not for using it as a personal meta development laboratory.
Don't get me wrong, I got mad respect for @Alcast and @Gilliamtherogue for putting in the work to test stuff like this, because no one else goes around doing it.
HOWEVER, if you're gonna go around proclaiming new metas and BIS before the actual patch hits live then you can damn well expect a change at the last minute.
If you guys actually tested your own things instead of waiting for youtubers to do it all for you then you'd realise before today Zenimax had balance perfect. When the PTS launched the difference between all traits and stones was like 1000 maximum, now it's gone. There's going to be a BiS and if you think that the PTS isn't for me to test the HUGE changes to stones and traits, then you're deluded.
Have you actually tested the changes on live?"it's important to state that our decision to go with subscriptions is not a referendum on online game revenue models. F2P, B2P, etc. are valid, proven business models - but subscription is the one that fits ESO the best, given our commitment to freedom of gameplay, quality and long-term content delivery. Plus, players will appreciate not having to worry about being "monetized" in the middle of playing the game, which is definitely a problem that is cropping up more and more in online gaming these days." - Matt Firor6 -
agingerinohio✭✭✭I have hated every nerf since the beginning of the game. That said, when you are qq ing, complaining, bitching, moaning, or offering "constructive" feedback. Please be very specific. For every nerf that that makes people happy there are 10 others that are now mad. Neither ZOS nor fellow players can possibly know what you are thinking. But one thing is for sure most people who ask for nerfs are not very good players.
I stopped pugging dungeons, I cannot stand to see people roll dodging nothing and light attacking bosses and mobs and the air... anymore. You or ZOS will never raise the floor or lower the ceiling as long as bad players never get any better.
Which is why there should be some kind of undated academy to teach people how to properly perform their roles. I'm tired of healing dungeons with DD's that don't even know what skills are aoe's and dots. Just about every run now I have to explain the different skills their class has to properly perform their role other than light attacking away.1 -
OC_Justice✭✭✭All I read was, "they didn't do what I wanted."
Are you guys on Zenimax payroll?
EDIT:
I am also hearing, "I played the game for hours and now I gotta play some more." too funnyEdited by OC_Justice on August 14, 2017 3:48PM10 -
casparian✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭OC_Justice wrote: »All I read was, "they didn't do what I wanted."
Are you guys on Zenimax payroll?
Then you didn't read very comprehendingly.
OP is pointing out that previous PTS versions had a large amount of build diversity for stamina DPS, with multiple setups performing roughly the same. In the final version of the patch, that diversity is gone; it's now Warrior stone or bust. Given that one explicit goal of the patch was to increase build diversity, OP is justifiably puzzled about the last-minute changes ZOS introduced.7-day PVP campaign regular 2016-2019, Flawless Conqueror. MagDK/stamplar/stamwarden/mageblade. Requiem, Legend, Knights of Daggerfall. Currently retired from the wars; waiting on performance improvements.15 -
ConnorWoods✭✭✭OC_Justice wrote: »All I read was, "they didn't do what I wanted."
Are you guys on Zenimax payroll?
Then you didn't read very comprehendingly.
OP is pointing out that previous PTS versions had a large amount of build diversity for stamina DPS, with multiple setups performing roughly the same. In the final version of the patch, that diversity is gone; it's now Warrior stone or bust. Given that one explicit goal of the patch was to increase build diversity, OP is justifiably puzzled about the last-minute changes ZOS introduced.
Delicately put thnxWashed up player0 -
ConnorWoods✭✭✭NukeAllTheThings wrote: »ConnorWoods wrote: »Scyantific wrote: »The point was to test / get feedback surely and thus react to it. What can they do. Its a self fulfilling problem when forums / reddit push a new meta before its even launched.
This man speaks 100% truth. PTS is for testing and making sure everything works properly, not for using it as a personal meta development laboratory.
Don't get me wrong, I got mad respect for @Alcast and @Gilliamtherogue for putting in the work to test stuff like this, because no one else goes around doing it.
HOWEVER, if you're gonna go around proclaiming new metas and BIS before the actual patch hits live then you can damn well expect a change at the last minute.
If you guys actually tested your own things instead of waiting for youtubers to do it all for you then you'd realise before today Zenimax had balance perfect. When the PTS launched the difference between all traits and stones was like 1000 maximum, now it's gone. There's going to be a BiS and if you think that the PTS isn't for me to test the HUGE changes to stones and traits, then you're deluded.
Have you actually tested the changes on live?
Was in a loading screen for 30 minutes.
I'm going to but if you please read what I put, I have evidence and research to heavily suggest my theories, if you wanna wait until I've done them on live so be it.Washed up player1 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It's a communication failure. Unfortunately ZOS never shares their intentions and vision - if they have any - with a dedicated player base. People would be less upset if communication were better.Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.8 -
STEVIL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭ConnorWoods wrote: »I'll start with a question then give you some personal feedback. What was the point of the 6 week PTS period when you decide that you don't like something on patch day and dish out nerfs? without any prior warning?
So I downloaded the PTS for Horns of The Reach as soon as it came out and enthusiastic as ever I set out to work out what would be best for my character... you know how the PTS is supposed to work. I have been posting videos on my channel frequently to offer feedback on what I think are good changes to the stones and traits as well as offering insight into this on your own public forums. I was compliant in showing how broken Torug's Pact was and called for it's nerf with everyone else because it was needed.
What isn't needed however is un called for changes on the day of the patch throwing everything I worked for in the trash can.
I just wanna make it crystal clear however that in your efforts to balance the stones on the final patch day you've actually just removed the diversity altogether when nerfing the shadow and thief stones as now the warrior is now going to over perform over the other 2 by a noticeable margin.
I liked having the option to choose my stone on different stamina variants, if you did the maths the Thief was BiS for Stam DKs and Stam Sorcs and Shadow was best for Nightblades and Templars, Warrior was great for PvP and now it's all wrecked, you're gonna see a meta of Warrior users.
The nerfs aren't even the worst bit, I can handle changes, but all those hours I've pumped in have been completely wasted, and you've yet again demonstrated how incompetent and out of touch you really are with your fan base.
Next time I'm just gonna go ahead and refrain from using the PTS as who knows? Wrobel is gonna decide what I have made is too powerful and strike forth his nerf hammer.
Stop with the constant mind changing on every topic you seem to address because you're hurting the game we all so very much love to play.
I can't figure out if this was meant to be sarcastic funny hah hah or not.
But if you truly believe the purpose of PTS is to give you heads up so you can pre¬patch get setup for being tops on patch day, you are confused.
The purpose of PTS is to test and debug upcoming possible changes and use the ongoing data to balance those until the patch goes live.
That always includes patch day adjustments to things deemed to be in need of adjusting.
The fact that Sorrow got tuned down after so many agreed on its moving to top shows they paid attention to feedback and data.
Proudly skooma free while talks-when-drunk is in mandatory public housing.
YFMV Your Fun May Vary.
First Law of Nerf-o-Dynamics
"The good way I used to get good kills *with good skill* was good but the way others kill me now is bad."10 -
NukeAllTheThings✭✭✭✭✭ConnorWoods wrote: »NukeAllTheThings wrote: »ConnorWoods wrote: »Scyantific wrote: »The point was to test / get feedback surely and thus react to it. What can they do. Its a self fulfilling problem when forums / reddit push a new meta before its even launched.
This man speaks 100% truth. PTS is for testing and making sure everything works properly, not for using it as a personal meta development laboratory.
Don't get me wrong, I got mad respect for @Alcast and @Gilliamtherogue for putting in the work to test stuff like this, because no one else goes around doing it.
HOWEVER, if you're gonna go around proclaiming new metas and BIS before the actual patch hits live then you can damn well expect a change at the last minute.
If you guys actually tested your own things instead of waiting for youtubers to do it all for you then you'd realise before today Zenimax had balance perfect. When the PTS launched the difference between all traits and stones was like 1000 maximum, now it's gone. There's going to be a BiS and if you think that the PTS isn't for me to test the HUGE changes to stones and traits, then you're deluded.
Have you actually tested the changes on live?
Was in a loading screen for 30 minutes.
I'm going to but if you please read what I put, I have evidence and research to heavily suggest my theories, if you wanna wait until I've done them on live so be it.
I have read what you wrote. But if you are going to tell people they should test their own things, then I would expect a fledgling "youtuber" would have actually TESTED before going off on a rant."it's important to state that our decision to go with subscriptions is not a referendum on online game revenue models. F2P, B2P, etc. are valid, proven business models - but subscription is the one that fits ESO the best, given our commitment to freedom of gameplay, quality and long-term content delivery. Plus, players will appreciate not having to worry about being "monetized" in the middle of playing the game, which is definitely a problem that is cropping up more and more in online gaming these days." - Matt Firor3 -
MehrunesFlagon✭✭✭✭✭
✭They took the work that Alcast and Gilliamtherogue did on the PTS seriously. They saw that the bonus to Crit was creating an environment where that was BiS, particularly pairing high crit chance sets with Shadow, and so decided to decrease the impact of those things. The set/mundus/trait bonuses were already incredibly close and now are likely even closer. It really looks like ZOS has taken the min/maxer crowd very seriously this patch. Min/maxers will always try to exploit whatever flaws in a system allow one build to overtake others. So the devs' job with balance is largely plugging holes the min/maxers would try to go through.
Which is a bunch of ***.4 -
BlazingDynamo✭✭✭✭✭Crit was gonna to be way too powerful next patch. The meta basically shifted from penetration to crit. Now it's more in line with the rest of things. Don't see the issue, good move on their behalf.6 -
ConnorWoods✭✭✭NukeAllTheThings wrote: »ConnorWoods wrote: »NukeAllTheThings wrote: »ConnorWoods wrote: »Scyantific wrote: »The point was to test / get feedback surely and thus react to it. What can they do. Its a self fulfilling problem when forums / reddit push a new meta before its even launched.
This man speaks 100% truth. PTS is for testing and making sure everything works properly, not for using it as a personal meta development laboratory.
Don't get me wrong, I got mad respect for @Alcast and @Gilliamtherogue for putting in the work to test stuff like this, because no one else goes around doing it.
HOWEVER, if you're gonna go around proclaiming new metas and BIS before the actual patch hits live then you can damn well expect a change at the last minute.
If you guys actually tested your own things instead of waiting for youtubers to do it all for you then you'd realise before today Zenimax had balance perfect. When the PTS launched the difference between all traits and stones was like 1000 maximum, now it's gone. There's going to be a BiS and if you think that the PTS isn't for me to test the HUGE changes to stones and traits, then you're deluded.
Have you actually tested the changes on live?
Was in a loading screen for 30 minutes.
I'm going to but if you please read what I put, I have evidence and research to heavily suggest my theories, if you wanna wait until I've done them on live so be it.
I have read what you wrote. But if you are going to tell people they should test their own things, then I would expect a fledgling "youtuber" would have actually TESTED before going off on a rant.
I'm just gonna go ahead and not read anything you put since you have proven you can't read. I've done testing at every step of the PTS and if you look at my findings you'd see with near penetration cap the warrior matched the shadow and thief. So fast forward today if you're able to keep up with what Im saying, then you find a huge nerf to shadow and thief, if you're still unable to understand how the warrior is now going to be miles above Shadow and thief then you should probably delete your account,
P.S> I'm 1 hour into testing this on live, and suprise surprise, the warrior has beaten every parse by at least 1k.Washed up player4 -
Fusiondk✭✭Here is the problem. Not that I really agree or disagree with anyone here, but the way gaming developers have been doing the PTS lately ( not just Zos, but others like square and blizzard are in the same boat) is that they have you test a bunch of variables throughout multiple PTS builds and for some reason the build that goes live is nothing like anything tested. The build that goes live should theoretically be the last PTS build right? This has never really made sense to me but I just assume I'm the crazy on to think the live build should have been tested in there somewhere.3
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Samadhi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭ConnorWoods wrote: »...
So I downloaded the PTS for Horns of The Reach as soon as it came out and enthusiastic as ever I set out to work out what would be best for my character... you know how the PTS is supposed to work...
What isn't needed however is un called for changes on the day of the patch throwing everything I worked for in the trash can.
...
The PTS is for testing what is best for the game, rather than what is best for your individual character
This thread is you complaining that what you planned for as BiS is no longer BiSConnorWoods wrote: »...
I liked having the option to choose my stone on different stamina variants, if you did the maths the Thief was BiS for Stam DKs and Stam Sorcs and Shadow was best for Nightblades and Templars, Warrior was great for PvP and now it's all wrecked, you're gonna see a meta of Warrior users.
...
When you talk about 'the maths' here
are you referring to all classes being built the same and wearing the same gear
with the only variation as the Mundus?
If so, the Mundus stones may not be the problem -- Mundus stones should be enhancing existing nuances of builds
if all Stam builds are already the same prior to choosing a Mundus, then better adjustments need to be made to gear-set diversity
but hey, have been using Warrior for ages
so now it has just come back around for me
"If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion." -- the 14th Dalai Lama
Wisdom is doing Now that which benefits you later.
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gard✭✭✭✭✭As much as I find ZOS change things too drastically, the point of the PTS is to test things and correct them before going live
"test things" implies that the changes would be applied to the test server before patch day, doesn't it?
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ConnorWoods✭✭✭ConnorWoods wrote: »...
So I downloaded the PTS for Horns of The Reach as soon as it came out and enthusiastic as ever I set out to work out what would be best for my character... you know how the PTS is supposed to work...
What isn't needed however is un called for changes on the day of the patch throwing everything I worked for in the trash can.
...
The PTS is for testing what is best for the game, rather than what is best for your individual character
This thread is you complaining that what you planned for as BiS is no longer BiSConnorWoods wrote: »...
I liked having the option to choose my stone on different stamina variants, if you did the maths the Thief was BiS for Stam DKs and Stam Sorcs and Shadow was best for Nightblades and Templars, Warrior was great for PvP and now it's all wrecked, you're gonna see a meta of Warrior users.
...
When you talk about 'the maths' here
are you referring to all classes being built the same and wearing the same gear
with the only variation as the Mundus?
If so, the Mundus stones may not be the problem -- Mundus stones should be enhancing existing nuances of builds
if all Stam builds are already the same prior to choosing a Mundus, then better adjustments need to be made to gear-set diversity
but hey, have been using Warrior for ages
so now it has just come back around for me
If you wanna calculate how much damage the thief does, times the crit chance by a decimalised crit modifier, so 105% would be 1.05 etc.
To calculate the Shadow effectiveness times your critical strike rating e.g. 75% by the decimalised value of shadow which was 18% before the nerf with 7 divines, so 0.18.
So yeah I have friends that play StamDK and StamSorc that could fill in the blanks for me, without the templar crit passive boosting the crit modifier more times than not the Thief won.Washed up player0 -
joaaocaampos✭✭✭✭✭Look, I'll tell you the truth: in an MMO, not just ESO, there is no "buff" or "nerf". What exists is: balancing! Every MMO is like this!2 -
SirAndy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
That's not how the PTS is supposed to work at all.ConnorWoods wrote: »I set out to work out what would be best for my character... you know how the PTS is supposed to work.
It's *not* your personal sandbox so you can work out a character template for when the patch goes live.
It's a ZOS TEST server where they ask people to test and report bugs and errors for upcoming content before it goes live.
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Samadhi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭ConnorWoods wrote: »...
So yeah I have friends that play StamDK and StamSorc that could fill in the blanks for me, without the templar crit passive boosting the crit modifier more times than not the Thief won.
You appear to have missed the entirety of the point in my post,
so will attempt to reword this in a context that you can think about your friends in
are all of you using the same builds prior to the selection of a Mundus stone?
Your original post stated:ConnorWoods wrote: »...
I just wanna make it crystal clear however that in your efforts to balance the stones on the final patch day you've actually just removed the diversity altogether ...
but how much build diversity are we looking at prior to the stones?
If your argument is that everyone is now wearing the same sets and using the same weapons because the Warrior stone is imbalanced,
then it is a balance issue brought on by the stones.
If your argument is that min/maxers will gravitate towards one stone rather than another in final build tweaks,
then it is a balance issue brought on prior to the stones."If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion." -- the 14th Dalai Lama
Wisdom is doing Now that which benefits you later.
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TarrNokk✭✭✭✭For me the point is, that zos has a great player base. People like the op who spend hours of their time in doing work for zos which is not appreciated by zos but it SHOULD BE. Hands down, what could be better for them, other than fanboys who spend their precious time to discover their mistakes.?0 -
ADarklore✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Amusing how some people say PTS patch had, "perfect balance"... you mean how one specific build was demonstrated to be OP... and you consider that BALANCED? No... ZOS doesn't want that type of balance, they want build diversity... and when one build clearly demonstrates that it is OP compared to the rest, then it will get nerfed.. which is exactly what happened with the last minute changes.CP: 2078 ** ESO+ 2025 Content Pass ** ~~ ***** Strictly a solo PvE quester *****
~~Started Playing: May 2015 | Stopped Playing: July 2025~~1 -
ConnorWoods✭✭✭ConnorWoods wrote: »...
So yeah I have friends that play StamDK and StamSorc that could fill in the blanks for me, without the templar crit passive boosting the crit modifier more times than not the Thief won.
You appear to have missed the entirety of the point in my post,
so will attempt to reword this in a context that you can think about your friends in
are all of you using the same builds prior to the selection of a Mundus stone?
Your original post stated:ConnorWoods wrote: »...
I just wanna make it crystal clear however that in your efforts to balance the stones on the final patch day you've actually just removed the diversity altogether ...
but how much build diversity are we looking at prior to the stones?
If your argument is that everyone is now wearing the same sets and using the same weapons because the Warrior stone is imbalanced,
then it is a balance issue brought on by the stones.
If your argument is that min/maxers will gravitate towards one stone rather than another in final build tweaks,
then it is a balance issue brought on prior to the stones.
and if you please read what I said, the way you calculate which stone is better will depend on their gear as that affects their critical strike rating and crit modifier, however outside of stones there is very little to alter this outside of the 4-5 set metas, which I might add the most popular sets for stamina, and hit the highest are Hunding's Rage, Vicious Ophidian, Night mother's Gaze and Leviathan. Which all have 2 critical strike passives.
I spoke generally and should have been clarified but 9/10 times on those classes the stone I said would be better.Washed up player0 -
ConnorWoods✭✭✭Amusing how some people say PTS patch had, "perfect balance"... you mean how one specific build was demonstrated to be OP... and you consider that BALANCED? No... ZOS doesn't want that type of balance, they want build diversity... and when one build clearly demonstrates that it is OP compared to the rest, then it will get nerfed.. which is exactly what happened with the last minute changes.
Balance between staminas, get a good stam sorc, dk, templar and nightblade in a room with the same buffs and you'll rarely see anything greater than about 1.5k difference between the highest and lowest. Like even go on youtube man and just compare.Edited by ConnorWoods on August 14, 2017 5:27PMWashed up player2 -
bubbygink✭✭✭✭✭Where are the DPS parses showing that Warrior is superior to thief/shadow in every set up and by how much? Until I see testing I really can't have an a opinion on it either way. So far a lot of ranting but no testing or evidence.0 -
AlcastClass RepresentativeThey did a pretty good job with the changes. Still A LOT of bugs that have not been touched. But other that that they did pretty good job.
I do not really see point nerfing some of the sets like MS or Levi, because they were definitely NOT overperforming. You could gamble together a lot of combinations and get similar results, with or without Mother Sorrow.
Except for that Infallible Mage set lmao.Edited by Alcast on August 14, 2017 5:33PMhttps://alcasthq.com - Alcasthq.com Builds & Guides
https://eso-hub.com - ESO-Hub.com Sets, Skills, Guides & News
https://dwemerautomaton.com - Discord, Telegram & Twitch Command Bot2 -
ConnorWoods✭✭✭Where are the DPS parses showing that Warrior is superior to thief/shadow in every set up and by how much? Until I see testing I really can't have an a opinion on it either way. So far a lot of ranting but no testing or evidence.
I only have evidence so far for before the nerfs but it's pretty clear using the old data and the patch notes the warrior is better, Im on live now and it beat the thief and shadow by 1k minimum stretching up to 2k at a push.
I'll provide data on live when I've formatted it and it's nice to read but the old data is here
as you can see, left table is Hunding's rage, far from pen cap, right is Night mother's, closer to cap. The closer you get to the penetration gap the more the Warrior weighs up. This data was before nerfs so it's evident now it's gonna pull ahead.
Also look at precise, it barely beat sharpened before and now I think with 2% gone it's gonna be bad.Washed up player1 -
ConnorWoods✭✭✭They did a pretty good job with the changes. Still A LOT of bugs that have not been touched. But other that that they did pretty good job.
I do not really see point nerfing some of the sets like MS or Levi, because they were definitely NOT overperforming. You could gamble together a lot of combinations and get similar results, with or without Mother Sorrow.
Except for that Infallible Mage set lmao.
Thanks for the input
I'm speaking purely from a Stamina perspective here and I agree Levi wasn't over performing, it was really nice and did more than Hunding's when I tried it but the post mainly here is why they changed it all so late. I absolutely loved this update and loved how when I changed almost all my stones and traits on weapons barely anything changed.
But now I have a definitive setup where I know will always hit the highest, so I guess the dream is dead for me and Zenimax ruined my dream of a HoTR paradise.Washed up player0 -
Samadhi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭ConnorWoods wrote: »ConnorWoods wrote: »...
So yeah I have friends that play StamDK and StamSorc that could fill in the blanks for me, without the templar crit passive boosting the crit modifier more times than not the Thief won.
You appear to have missed the entirety of the point in my post,
so will attempt to reword this in a context that you can think about your friends in
are all of you using the same builds prior to the selection of a Mundus stone?
Your original post stated:ConnorWoods wrote: »...
I just wanna make it crystal clear however that in your efforts to balance the stones on the final patch day you've actually just removed the diversity altogether ...
but how much build diversity are we looking at prior to the stones?
If your argument is that everyone is now wearing the same sets and using the same weapons because the Warrior stone is imbalanced,
then it is a balance issue brought on by the stones.
If your argument is that min/maxers will gravitate towards one stone rather than another in final build tweaks,
then it is a balance issue brought on prior to the stones.
and if you please read what I said, the way you calculate which stone is better will depend on their gear as that affects their critical strike rating and crit modifier, however outside of stones there is very little to alter this outside of the 4-5 set metas, which I might add the most popular sets for stamina, and hit the highest are Hunding's Rage, Vicious Ophidian, Night mother's Gaze and Leviathan. Which all have 2 critical strike passives.
I spoke generally and should have been clarified but 9/10 times on those classes the stone I said would be better.
So your argument is that min/maxers will gravitate towards one stone rather than another in final build tweaks,
then do you agree more needs to be done to promote diversity prior to stone selection,
or are simply invested in the stone selection tacked on at the end
Personally like to role play to create a build, then min/max that to make it most effective at whatever it is specialized in
so, for me, stone selection has rarely been about nitpicking over a bit of damage
Am not going to purport to know what 'everyone' or even the 'average player' is like in terms of managing builds,
but am going to feel pretty safe in the presumption that a minority of the overall community goes nuts over their Mundus
hell, personally have characters who run a Mundus with no build benefit, simply due to what is their birth sign
Tho, given all your efforts regarding Stamina builds
how does Thief stack up on Magicka builds?
As it is both Weapon and Spell Critical, the best way to show it needs more benefit
would be to show that it is under-performing in all scenarios
If anything, would like to see Thief get an additional bonus tacked on that promotes its value in other styles of play
like +% bonus to pickpocketing chance"If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion." -- the 14th Dalai Lama
Wisdom is doing Now that which benefits you later.
1
