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Reflective Scales (Dragonknight) and Crystalized Shield (Warden)
GrumpyDuckling
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Reflective Scales
Duration - 4 seconds
Cost - 3780 magicka
Crystalized Shield
Duration - 6 seconds
Cost - 2701 magicka
For skills that perform similarly, one performs much more efficiently than the other (longer duration and cheaper cost). Perhaps a boost to Reflective Scales duration is in order.
Duration - 4 seconds
Cost - 3780 magicka
Crystalized Shield
Duration - 6 seconds
Cost - 2701 magicka
For skills that perform similarly, one performs much more efficiently than the other (longer duration and cheaper cost). Perhaps a boost to Reflective Scales duration is in order.
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paulsimonps✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭GrumpyDuckling wrote: »Reflective Scales
Duration - 4 seconds
Cost - 3780 magicka
Crystalized Shield
Duration - 6 seconds
Cost - 2701 magicka
For skills that perform similarly, one performs much more efficiently than the other (longer duration and cheaper cost). Perhaps a boost to Reflective Scales duration is in order.
One reflects, the other absorbs, as well one of them prevents CC's, the other does not. So Reflective scales can reflect 4 projectiles with a top duration of 4s and can prevent CCs that the projectile might have caused, while Crystalized Shield has 6s duration and can only absorb 3 projectiles but restores magicka then projectiles is absorbed. They do different things, and even with the major heroism morph of Crystallized the reflective scales is far more useful, which is probably why it has shorter duration and larger cost.8 -
Brutusmax1mus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Reflective scales deals damage while mitigating. It is without a doubt better as it makes far more impact in a fight. Also their is no cap for scales like there is in cs. However there is spill over damage for crystallized shield.
In short, they are balanced.0 -
Apherius✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭you can't compare 2 skills ... it's like compare the finisher of the NB and the finisher of the templar ...
If i follow your idea ... all class should have the same skill and the same passif.Edited by Apherius on August 12, 2017 8:04PM0 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭paulsimonps wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »Reflective Scales
Duration - 4 seconds
Cost - 3780 magicka
Crystalized Shield
Duration - 6 seconds
Cost - 2701 magicka
For skills that perform similarly, one performs much more efficiently than the other (longer duration and cheaper cost). Perhaps a boost to Reflective Scales duration is in order.
One reflects, the other absorbs, as well one of them prevents CC's, the other does not. So Reflective scales can reflect 4 projectiles with a top duration of 4s and can prevent CCs that the projectile might have caused, while Crystalized Shield has 6s duration and can only absorb 3 projectiles but restores magicka then projectiles is absorbed. They do different things, and even with the major heroism morph of Crystallized the reflective scales is far more useful, which is probably why it has shorter duration and larger cost.
Crystallized with major heroism is most definitely more useful. Wardens are casting their healing ult every 10-15 seconds because of that skill which also has a negligible cost since it returns back magicka. Its actually stupid how strong that skill is.0 -
Gan Xing✭✭✭✭The other morph of crystallized returns a specific amount of frost damage to attacker, whereas the scales returns the damage of the ability.
In otherwords the crystallized slab will return about 3k damage, but will have just absorbed that 9k snipe
With DK wings, they can return that 9k snipeGan Xing - Crafting Nightblade
Elrana Tinuviel - Hybrid Dragonknight
Elentári Peregrine - Sorcerer "bank"
Rán Xīng - Hybrid Templar
Laurïsil Imlachwen - Stamina Templar
Helotë Tinuviel - Hybrid/Magicka Warden
Odin banker - obv banker
Yan of the Red Mountain - lvl 3 DK - not sure when I will work on em
Seeks the unusual and unique playstyles...1 -
paulsimonps✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭paulsimonps wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »Reflective Scales
Duration - 4 seconds
Cost - 3780 magicka
Crystalized Shield
Duration - 6 seconds
Cost - 2701 magicka
For skills that perform similarly, one performs much more efficiently than the other (longer duration and cheaper cost). Perhaps a boost to Reflective Scales duration is in order.
One reflects, the other absorbs, as well one of them prevents CC's, the other does not. So Reflective scales can reflect 4 projectiles with a top duration of 4s and can prevent CCs that the projectile might have caused, while Crystalized Shield has 6s duration and can only absorb 3 projectiles but restores magicka then projectiles is absorbed. They do different things, and even with the major heroism morph of Crystallized the reflective scales is far more useful, which is probably why it has shorter duration and larger cost.
Crystallized with major heroism is most definitely more useful. Wardens are casting their healing ult every 10-15 seconds because of that skill which also has a negligible cost since it returns back magicka. Its actually stupid how strong that skill is.
yea, but I have never seen anyone kill someone with that skill. I have killed A LOT of people with reflective scales. Though I guess getting ulti faster for Eye of the storm isn't all bad.1 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭paulsimonps wrote: »paulsimonps wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »Reflective Scales
Duration - 4 seconds
Cost - 3780 magicka
Crystalized Shield
Duration - 6 seconds
Cost - 2701 magicka
For skills that perform similarly, one performs much more efficiently than the other (longer duration and cheaper cost). Perhaps a boost to Reflective Scales duration is in order.
One reflects, the other absorbs, as well one of them prevents CC's, the other does not. So Reflective scales can reflect 4 projectiles with a top duration of 4s and can prevent CCs that the projectile might have caused, while Crystalized Shield has 6s duration and can only absorb 3 projectiles but restores magicka then projectiles is absorbed. They do different things, and even with the major heroism morph of Crystallized the reflective scales is far more useful, which is probably why it has shorter duration and larger cost.
Crystallized with major heroism is most definitely more useful. Wardens are casting their healing ult every 10-15 seconds because of that skill which also has a negligible cost since it returns back magicka. Its actually stupid how strong that skill is.
yea, but I have never seen anyone kill someone with that skill. I have killed A LOT of people with reflective scales. Though I guess getting ulti faster for Eye of the storm isn't all bad.
You can only cast reflective scales for so long before you run dry and it doesnt help you when you are getting zerged. Half of the DKs dont even use it anymore. It needs some tweaks that would actually make the skill better when u are outnumbered without affecting it in a 1v1 situations.
Crystallized on the other hand is stupid. You can spam it with a zerg hitting you and fart healing ults. Its basically god mode.1 -
IxskullzxI✭✭✭✭paulsimonps wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »Reflective Scales
Duration - 4 seconds
Cost - 3780 magicka
Crystalized Shield
Duration - 6 seconds
Cost - 2701 magicka
For skills that perform similarly, one performs much more efficiently than the other (longer duration and cheaper cost). Perhaps a boost to Reflective Scales duration is in order.
One reflects, the other absorbs, as well one of them prevents CC's, the other does not. So Reflective scales can reflect 4 projectiles with a top duration of 4s and can prevent CCs that the projectile might have caused, while Crystalized Shield has 6s duration and can only absorb 3 projectiles but restores magicka then projectiles is absorbed. They do different things, and even with the major heroism morph of Crystallized the reflective scales is far more useful, which is probably why it has shorter duration and larger cost.
I would trade reflective scales for the major heroism shield on my dk any day.#HowDoYouLikeYourDK?4 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »You guys do know Crystal only mitigates a limited amount of damage right?
You mean the skill that gives major heroism and costs almost nothing? Yeah its too bad that it doesnt mitigate everything. It needs a buff.1 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »You guys do know Crystal only mitigates a limited amount of damage right?
You mean the skill that gives major heroism and costs almost nothing? Yeah its too bad that it doesnt mitigate everything. It needs a buff.
Yeah, it doesn't mitigate much, and the 3 ult every 1.5 sec doesn't matter much if your opponent is running a good build capable of putting out 20k in a 2 sec combo2 -
paulsimonps✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Played both Warden and DK in PvP, I will keep my reflective scales thank you very much. Oh and I do have a pretty nice duration of time that I can keep them up, combine it with Spell Wall and I can do the combo for even longer. Rather have that then the extra ultimate. I have killed so many projectile spammers with those 2 things. Reflecting Crystal frags, destructive clenches, Snipes, Poison Injections, Javelins, and Bow ultimates. Its great, they kill themselves basically. Absorbing sure helps with sustaining yourself but to turn it back around on them requires a lot more from you, DKs have it easier.1 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »You guys do know Crystal only mitigates a limited amount of damage right?
You mean the skill that gives major heroism and costs almost nothing? Yeah its too bad that it doesnt mitigate everything. It needs a buff.
Yeah, it doesn't mitigate much, and the 3 ult every 1.5 sec doesn't matter much if your opponent is running a good build capable of putting out 20k in a 2 sec combo
So again, its balanced because it doesnt give you immunity to everything? I guess these days 100% uptime on major heroism and mitigating dmg with almost free cost isnt enough. Lol.Edited by pieratsos on August 13, 2017 9:22AM4 -
sly007✭✭✭✭If you think of did niche better, go make a warden and have fun playing it. Wings is defensive and offensive, reflecting the damage with an added bonus of 30% more damage.
Crystal is more defensive with little to no offense. Sure, one can look at all the pros of Crystal and say it's better than wings when you are comparing it to wing's cons.
Lets flip it around.
Crystal - limited damage absorbed, get stunned even when absorbing projectiles with cc, long cast time, very noticeable animation.
Wings - bonus damage when reflecting, protects caster from projectile cc, reflects 4 projectiles, no damage taken, animation can be cancelled and difficult for opponents to see.
Dks get all the good stuff while warden does not. No wonder why dks make better tanks. They can mitigate all projectile damage with 1 ability and hard counter ranged classes. Warden absorb should be like wings. I should not get cc'ed when absorbing a frag. Crystal needs a buff.
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leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The warden skills is so much better.
Major heroism, very cheap cost when it absorbs, longer duration.
Oh and because it absorbs it means projectiles that aren't reflectable also get absorbed.
The dmg on reflection is kind of bad to be honest with wings, plus most people aren't stupid enough to throw one of the few reflect able skills at wings anyway and won't be hit by the reflected skill usually.
Wings is useless nowdays. Its useful for frag and snipe basically.PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...3 -
Jawasa✭✭✭@Sharee Well if some1 brings up long animation as a con in a game with animation canc is biased or ignorant. Crystal is used by a lot of wardens wings on the other hand is almost Never used.
My suggestion is that you swap the skills. So warden gets reflect and dk gets major heroism and absorb. Every1 is happy wardens get the overpowerd reflect and dk gets the skill They want.
Edited by Jawasa on August 13, 2017 2:22PM0 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I'll trade Eclipse for either.
Edited by Joy_Division on August 13, 2017 2:20PMMake Rush of Agony "Monsters only." People should not be consecutively crowd controlled in a PvP setting. Period.0 -
Merkabeh✭✭✭IxskullzxI wrote: »paulsimonps wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »Reflective Scales
Duration - 4 seconds
Cost - 3780 magicka
Crystalized Shield
Duration - 6 seconds
Cost - 2701 magicka
For skills that perform similarly, one performs much more efficiently than the other (longer duration and cheaper cost). Perhaps a boost to Reflective Scales duration is in order.
One reflects, the other absorbs, as well one of them prevents CC's, the other does not. So Reflective scales can reflect 4 projectiles with a top duration of 4s and can prevent CCs that the projectile might have caused, while Crystalized Shield has 6s duration and can only absorb 3 projectiles but restores magicka then projectiles is absorbed. They do different things, and even with the major heroism morph of Crystallized the reflective scales is far more useful, which is probably why it has shorter duration and larger cost.
I would trade reflective scales for the major heroism shield on my dk any day.
On a DK that would be rediculously OP. Ult gain builds already make DKs hard to kill. That would give DKs major heorism without needing to SnB.
Able to use more damaging weapon sets and still build ult like crazy...lol...redonk.Crusader of The Knights of the Alessian Order
Anything useful that players are wanting added into the game all fall under the category of "Yer ruinin my 'mersion!" - Sallington
#CommunicationEquality0 -
paulsimonps✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »The warden skills is so much better.
Major heroism, very cheap cost when it absorbs, longer duration.
Oh and because it absorbs it means projectiles that aren't reflectable also get absorbed.
The dmg on reflection is kind of bad to be honest with wings, plus most people aren't stupid enough to throw one of the few reflect able skills at wings anyway and won't be hit by the reflected skill usually.
Wings is useless nowdays. Its useful for frag and snipe basically.
You really overestimate the average PvPer. They shoot projectiles right at me, moments after I have done the wrings right in their fricking face. Maybe its cause people say wings are bad and that most people aren't using it anymore that some aren't afraid of them anymore, but so now that I do use it it becomes really effective cause everyone seems to ignore the fact that I use it. But different strokes, I will stick to my DK over my Warden in PvP for now.0 -
Merkabeh✭✭✭@Merkabeh snb gives minor heroism on heroic slash.
I know...I even mention SnB in my post. The point is, being able to keep major heroism with DW/Bow/2Hand/Staves, is very powerful.
As it stands now, a DK has to sacrifice (if mot a tank) at least one weapon bar to get major heroism; if we had a cheap spammable, like crystal shield, we wouldn't need to do that. We'd get to keep more damaging weapon lines, and still get fast ult charge.Edited by Merkabeh on August 13, 2017 2:58PMCrusader of The Knights of the Alessian Order
Anything useful that players are wanting added into the game all fall under the category of "Yer ruinin my 'mersion!" - Sallington
#CommunicationEquality1 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
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Dks get all the good stuff while warden does not. No wonder why dks make better tanks. They can mitigate all projectile damage with 1 ability and hard counter ranged classes. Warden absorb should be like wings. I should not get cc'ed when absorbing a frag. Crystal needs a buff.
Yeah obviously reflective scales is so good that half of the DKs dont even use it. And on the other hand crystallized is so bad that u can spam it endlessly with almost no cost and get a healing ult every 10 seconds. Talking about bias here.1 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@Sharee Well if some1 brings up long animation as a con in a game with animation canc is biased or ignorant. Crystal is used by a lot of wardens wings on the other hand is almost Never used.
My suggestion is that you swap the skills. So warden gets reflect and dk gets major heroism and absorb. Every1 is happy wardens get the overpowerd reflect and dk gets the skill They want.
Giving DKs 100% uptime on major heroism is even worse.Edited by pieratsos on August 13, 2017 3:06PM0 -
ak_pvp✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Not going to compare wings to shield because they are quite different.
But wings itself is awful. Around 4k mag cost for a measly 4 seconds of 4 "projectiles." Its pathetic how many DK abilities ZOS has simply broke.
It should be all projectiles bar meteor, and have no time limit, but still only take 4 projectiles. This way it wouldn't double dip into expiry, it would be usable pre fight and not waste mag for spamming, but still can be overcome by multiple projectiles in a short timeframe.MagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
Best houseknight EU.0 -
Jawasa✭✭✭@pieratsos i know i was Making fun of peoples claim that major heroism isnt that good and wings are super strong.
@Merkabeh minor and major heroism isnt the same buff.Edited by Jawasa on August 13, 2017 3:35PM0 -
Vizier✭✭✭✭✭
✭GrumpyDuckling wrote: »Reflective Scales
Duration - 4 seconds
Cost - 3780 magicka
Crystalized Shield
Duration - 6 seconds
Cost - 2701 magicka
For skills that perform similarly, one performs much more efficiently than the other (longer duration and cheaper cost). Perhaps a boost to Reflective Scales duration is in order.
These skills aren't even remotely the same. Wings returns the actual attack where as shields converts the attack into a slow moving ice ball that does pathetic damage if it even hits. The comparison of the two is WAY flawed.0 -
olsborg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭You only compared the skills duration and cost. Thats like comparing 2 cars only by the color of their bodies.
PC EU
PvP only1 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »You guys do know Crystal only mitigates a limited amount of damage right?
You mean the skill that gives major heroism and costs almost nothing? Yeah its too bad that it doesnt mitigate everything. It needs a buff.
Yeah, it doesn't mitigate much, and the 3 ult every 1.5 sec doesn't matter much if your opponent is running a good build capable of putting out 20k in a 2 sec combo
So again, its balanced because it doesnt give you immunity to everything? I guess these days 100% uptime on major heroism and mitigating dmg with almost free cost isnt enough. Lol.
Actually I'll say neither deserve a slot in damage dealing PvP builds.
If you're a support/tank/group thing or a niche duel build sure, but for my experience having a potentially dead slot is not viable.
If you BGs you know ATM Proc sets on Stam NBs are by far the most common build, second would be mag sorc. Against the oh so common Stam proc builds Crystal is a dead slot. Against a top end sorc you'll mitigate something around 50% of a frag and still get knocked down.
I don't build to beat mediocre opponents, I build to beat the higher tier builds - btw which are primarily Stam builds (everyone wants to 1vX)0
