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Kicking healers other then templars
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hmsdragonfly✭✭✭✭✭
✭Tan9oSuccka wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »Tan9oSuccka wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »
paulsimonps is one of the best tank players and theorycrafters in the entire game.
Why have I never heard of him until this thread?
The rest of it.. well.. kinda find it hard to argue with.
Of course.. the DPS could ALSO being throwing out debuffs.. and why has that DPS should be weaving in heavy attacks for THEIR OWN sustain not been brought up yet?
Because you don't pay enough attention?
I don't understand the rest of your argument, sorry.
To be honest, I haven't heard of him either although I don't seek out the theorycrafting crowd.
Paul may be a heckuva guy, but sadly not many "Paul's" in the group finder crowd that make best use of of a non-Templar healer.
You lost that argument to him, do i really have to remind you about that?paulsimonps wrote: »Tan9oSuccka wrote: »generalmyrick wrote: »
Yeah. Since June 2015, pugging with Sorc Healers, 1 was actually spec'd and geared for healing. I would say adequate.exeeter702 wrote: »Tan9oSuccka wrote: »Honestly, I'm not a fan of Warden or Sorc healers. They do the job, but I'd rather have a good Templar.
I would rather have steak instead of hamburgers.
Hamburger to steak is a terrible and innacurate analogy. It suggests one is of higher objective quality to the other wich is false
As someone who Tanks Vet pugs, I stand by this statement an analogy.
Just because forum warriors can make a Sorc healer doesn't mean your average Joe Pug does it and well.
Templar healers, even the dumbest ones still slot BOL. The typical dumb Sorc healer usually uses mutagen and goes to his damage bar.
You can not use player competence to justify your views on whether or not a Class is good at healing or not. Anyone could be a potential idiot that slots the wrong things, even a templar healer could be stupid enough to not slot breath of life(side note, BoL is not the best heal in the game no matter what you might thing). But obviously if we talk only about competent people and those that understand how the game works then any class can heal, sure they all have different strengths and playstyles and some gives more to provide for the current meta than others but they can all fill the role very well. Just cause bad players play a class poorly doesn't mean they won't be just as bad on another, or vise versa, and it proves nothing about the class.
You both miss the point. You both assume all players run optimal builds, with flawless rotations and a perfect understanding of the class and it's limits and strengths.
If you take a great player, he'll make anything work.
In my opinion, Templars are more forgiving for a majority of players and easier to run. I never said anything about effectiveness.
You can rattle your sabre in victory, but victory for what exactly? Epeen?
Grow up.
What victory, I didn't even argue against you. Just pointed out that you lost the exact argument against paulsimonps, yet you brought it up again and again, and you brought it up to me just because I mentioned paulsimonps. It's just tiring.
Templar healer is indeed easier to run, I would suggest every new player to pick up Templar if they ask me what class should they try if they want to heal. But your initial argument was that non-Templar healers don't work for average Joes because you see bad non-Templar healers while PUGing, so:
1) It's just your own experience and nothing solidifies that the majority of players experience the same thing, you simply have bad karma.
2) If a player that is so bad that they don't slot spring, it's very likely that they don't slot spring or BoL as well if they happen to be a Templar, or they slot BoL while using Bow and put points in stamina which is equally bad.
3) Templar is easier to run, but it's not a lot easier to run, and definitely not fool proof. Your average Joes who can't make sorc healers work if they happen to play Templar they will also put BoL on bow bar and put points in stamina, which is equally bad.
So, if a player asks me "Does X/Y/Z healer work?", I have to tell the truth "Yes, it does, if you use this or that blah blah". Saying "X/Y/Z healer doesn't work" is lying.Edited by hmsdragonfly on August 6, 2017 3:19AMAldmeri Dominion Loyalist. For the Queen!0 -
ArchMikem✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Basic fact is it sounds like a crappy guild to have made a crappy decision. "You don't play the way I want, you're not welcome." That's crappy, don't try to justify it.CP2,100 Master Explorer - AvA Two Star Warlord - Console Peasant - Khajiiti Aficionado - The Clan
Quest Objective: OMG Go Talk To That Kitty!2 -
AbysmalGhul✭✭✭✭✭
✭AbysmalGhul wrote: »paulsimonps wrote: »AbysmalGhul wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »AbysmalGhul wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »
With the change to orb, every class can heal in vet trial now, just like every class can DPS. Some classes might be better than others, but all are viable enough to complete the content.
I have to disagree. Sure, any class can heal, but can they heal effectively in harder vet content such as trials? The answer is no. A Nightblade, Sorcerer , or even a Warden healer can only compliment a Templar healer. With the exception of the Warden, the others fall short in every department when being the lead healer. I have seen some pretty solid NB healers, but they can't even pose as a personal healer for the tank in vet trials let alone heal an entire group who almost got wiped in one hit.
You can effectively in harder vet content such as trials with any class. Tell me what Sorc, DK or Nightblade lack that makes them unable to heal vet trials effectively. Nothing. It used to be the case that they can't feed stamina to the tank, now they can. They have everything in their kit to heal in vet trials.
Please, demonstrate a build that would be highly effective in veteran trials for a Sorcerer, Dragonknight, or Nightblade? I have yet to see one. Like I said, they can compliment a Templar healer, but can't stand on their own.
Exact same gear and CP set up as a Templar, just swap around some skills, and Boom you're golden.
I'll create a build and check it out myself. This should be interesting enough.
*Whispers* If you build it, they will be healed
Results are in. I built it, but nobody got healed.
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paulsimonps✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭AbysmalGhul wrote: »AbysmalGhul wrote: »paulsimonps wrote: »AbysmalGhul wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »AbysmalGhul wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »
With the change to orb, every class can heal in vet trial now, just like every class can DPS. Some classes might be better than others, but all are viable enough to complete the content.
I have to disagree. Sure, any class can heal, but can they heal effectively in harder vet content such as trials? The answer is no. A Nightblade, Sorcerer , or even a Warden healer can only compliment a Templar healer. With the exception of the Warden, the others fall short in every department when being the lead healer. I have seen some pretty solid NB healers, but they can't even pose as a personal healer for the tank in vet trials let alone heal an entire group who almost got wiped in one hit.
You can effectively in harder vet content such as trials with any class. Tell me what Sorc, DK or Nightblade lack that makes them unable to heal vet trials effectively. Nothing. It used to be the case that they can't feed stamina to the tank, now they can. They have everything in their kit to heal in vet trials.
Please, demonstrate a build that would be highly effective in veteran trials for a Sorcerer, Dragonknight, or Nightblade? I have yet to see one. Like I said, they can compliment a Templar healer, but can't stand on their own.
Exact same gear and CP set up as a Templar, just swap around some skills, and Boom you're golden.
I'll create a build and check it out myself. This should be interesting enough.
*Whispers* If you build it, they will be healed
Results are in. I built it, but nobody got healed.
Define "nobody got healed" Did you make a healer build that did zero HPS? What do you mean.Edited by paulsimonps on August 6, 2017 2:39AM1 -
hmsdragonfly✭✭✭✭✭
✭AbysmalGhul wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »AbysmalGhul wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »
With the change to orb, every class can heal in vet trial now, just like every class can DPS. Some classes might be better than others, but all are viable enough to complete the content.
I have to disagree. Sure, any class can heal, but can they heal effectively in harder vet content such as trials? The answer is no. A Nightblade, Sorcerer , or even a Warden healer can only compliment a Templar healer. With the exception of the Warden, the others fall short in every department when being the lead healer. I have seen some pretty solid NB healers, but they can't even pose as a personal healer for the tank in vet trials let alone heal an entire group who almost got wiped in one hit.
You can effectively in harder vet content such as trials with any class. Tell me what Sorc, DK or Nightblade lack that makes them unable to heal vet trials effectively. Nothing. It used to be the case that they can't feed stamina to the tank, now they can. They have everything in their kit to heal in vet trials.
Please, demonstrate a build that would be highly effective in veteran trials for a Sorcerer, Dragonknight, or Nightblade? I have yet to see one. Like I said, they can compliment a Templar healer, but can't stand on their own.
Exact the same gear you use on Templar.
Skills:
DK:
Front bar (Restro): Rapid Regen - Combat Prayer- Healing Springs - Healing Ward - Inner Light/Cauterize | Ult: Barrier/Magma Shell
Back bar (Destro): Molten Armanents - Mystic Orb - Elemental Drain - Igneous Shield - Harness Magicka | Ult: Aggressive Warhorn
Sorc:
Front bar (Restro): Rapid Regen - Combat Prayer - Healing Springs - Inner Light/Empowered Ward - Twilight Matriarch | Ult: Overload
Back bar (Destro): Power Surge - Blockade of Lightning - Elemental Drain - Mystic Orb - Twilight Matriarch | Ult: Aggressive Warhorn
Overload bar: Boundless Storm - Ball of Lightning - Dark Conversion - Empowered Ward - Twilight Matriarch
Nightblade:
Front bar (Restro): Rapid Regen - Combat Prayer- Healing Springs - Healing Ward - Inner Light | Ult: Soul Siphon/Barrier
Back bar (Destro): Sap Essence/Entropy - Mystic Orb - Elemental Drain - Refreshing Path/Siphoning Attacks - Harness Magicka | Ult: Aggressive Warhorn
Let's go champ.Aldmeri Dominion Loyalist. For the Queen!2 -
snakester320✭✭✭✭snakester320 wrote: »I'll prob get hate for this but it been my argument about eso frome 4-5 classes but lets you stick a sword and shield on or a healing staff and call your self a healer or a tank..
Either way still makes for a lot of fail groups and while there's always hardcore and elitist players most mmos are made up of casuals there's what keeps the game alive ( that's the truth ) fact is it not the point of if a player is bad or good the fact remains while there's a choice it allows dungeon groups fail far more times that the generic wow clone as you put it which seems to work more smoothly.. I've played wow and ffxiv and eso I've been in more fail groups in eso because there's ppl queuing as tanks with dps classes or sorcs that think there a healing class but can't heal .. then most of the time I have to rely on self heals as a dps makes stupid sense.... its still a lazy attempt imo why not add more interesting classes that are built for specific roles ... even though wow is in some regards a dead game its formula has been that of sheer genius and will always be the benchmark of mmos gone are days of hardcore mmos catered to that style casuals own mmos these days ppl who don't give to Sh.ts about rotations procs and all that bs and just want to have fun and play....there what keeps the game alive for hardcore players.hmsdragonfly wrote: »snakester320 wrote: »I'll prob get hate for this but it been my argument about eso from the start the lack of individual classes set for specific purpose sure it great to use a stamplar and other hybrids but there are so many failed groups because classes such as a tank healer and dps are not in forced ... how many times have I seen a mage try to heal and a nightblade try to tank .. sure it may be good for made groups and the elitist who are very good but the general population who ( be honest keep theses mmos ticking over ) are not hardcore players .. have no idea and cause these fails...imo the system is broken and it feels like a lazy arse attempt on ZOS part to just make 4-5 classes but lets you stick a sword and shield on or a healing staff and call your self a healer or a tank..
Sorcs can heal and Nightblades can tank. People who can't heal with sorc certainly won't be able to heal with Templar and people who can't tank with Nightblade certainly can't tank with DK. They are just bad players.
It's not "a lazy arse attempt", it's the main selling point of this game: people can fill in any role as any class, as long as they are built for it. It's a trait coming from the TES franchise, it's the thing that makes this game unique instead of a generic WoW clone.
Edit: have a think on what you said as a selling point to the game fill any role with any class and if they can't there bad players.. where if you stuck with the generic class system of classes for tanks for tanking and so on .. dungeons would as a fact would move and be completed smoother and with far less fail groups...
As for kicking players from groups because of specific class I don't agree with it but it still comes down to the choice ZOS made in going forward with a imo flawed system in the first place..Edited by snakester320 on August 6, 2017 3:13AM2 -
paulsimonps✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭snakester320 wrote: »snakester320 wrote: »I'll prob get hate for this but it been my argument about eso frome 4-5 classes but lets you stick a sword and shield on or a healing staff and call your self a healer or a tank..
Either way still makes for a lot of fail groups and while there's always hardcore and elitist players most mmos are made up of casuals there's what keeps the game alive ( that's the truth ) fact is it not the point of if a player is bad or good the fact remains while there's a choice it allows dungeon groups fail far more times that the generic wow clone as you put it which seems to work more smoothly.. I've played wow and ffxiv and eso I've been in more fail groups in eso because there's ppl queuing as tanks with dps classes or sorcs that think there a healing class but can't heal .. then most of the time I have to rely on self heals as a dps makes stupid sense.... its still a lazy attempt imo why not add more interesting classes that are built for specific roles ... even though wow is in some regards a dead game its formula has been that of sheer genius and will always be the benchmark of mmos gone are days of hardcore mmos catered to that style casuals own mmos these days ppl who don't give to Sh.ts about rotations procs and all that bs and just want to have fun and play....there what keeps the game alive for hardcore players.hmsdragonfly wrote: »snakester320 wrote: »I'll prob get hate for this but it been my argument about eso from the start the lack of individual classes set for specific purpose sure it great to use a stamplar and other hybrids but there are so many failed groups because classes such as a tank healer and dps are not in forced ... how many times have I seen a mage try to heal and a nightblade try to tank .. sure it may be good for made groups and the elitist who are very good but the general population who ( be honest keep theses mmos ticking over ) are not hardcore players .. have no idea and cause these fails...imo the system is broken and it feels like a lazy arse attempt on ZOS part to just make 4-5 classes but lets you stick a sword and shield on or a healing staff and call your self a healer or a tank..
Sorcs can heal and Nightblades can tank. People who can't heal with sorc certainly won't be able to heal with Templar and people who can't tank with Nightblade certainly can't tank with DK. They are just bad players.
It's not "a lazy arse attempt", it's the main selling point of this game: people can fill in any role as any class, as long as they are built for it. It's a trait coming from the TES franchise, it's the thing that makes this game unique instead of a generic WoW clone.
"DPS class" no such thing.
The selling point of the game is as said, choice, to play in a large variety of ways with the tools given to you. This was most likely done in the spirit of the other TES games. This game is also the first MMO for a lot of people that previously only played TES games or similar, they don't understand what the roles entail, and the game does not do a good job at explaining this. The lack of a group content tutorial of some sort, or any explanation at all regarding this is its fall, not its open class/weapon/role choices.
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witchdoctor✭✭✭✭✭
✭hmsdragonfly wrote: »Exact the same gear you use on Templar.
Skills:
DK:
Front bar (Restro): Rapid Regen - Combat Prayer- Healing Springs - Healing Ward - Inner Light/Cauterize | Ult: Barrier/Magma Shell
Back bar (Destro): Molten Armanents - Mystic Orb - Elemental Drain - Igneous Shield - Harness Magicka | Ult: Aggressive Warhorn
Thanks, matches with what I had planned for my baby MagDK.
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hmsdragonfly✭✭✭✭✭
✭snakester320 wrote: »snakester320 wrote: »I'll prob get hate for this but it been my argument about eso frome 4-5 classes but lets you stick a sword and shield on or a healing staff and call your self a healer or a tank..
Either way still makes for a lot of fail groups and while there's always hardcore and elitist players most mmos are made up of casuals there's what keeps the game alive ( that's the truth ) fact is it not the point of if a player is bad or good the fact remains while there's a choice it allows dungeon groups fail far more times that the generic wow clone as you put it which seems to work more smoothly.. I've played wow and ffxiv and eso I've been in more fail groups in eso because there's ppl queuing as tanks with dps classes or sorcs that think there a healing class but can't heal .. then most of the time I have to rely on self heals as a dps makes stupid sense.... its still a lazy attempt imo why not add more interesting classes that are built for specific roles ... even though wow is in some regards a dead game its formula has been that of sheer genius and will always be the benchmark of mmos gone are days of hardcore mmos catered to that style casuals own mmos these days ppl who don't give to Sh.ts about rotations procs and all that bs and just want to have fun and play....there what keeps the game alive for hardcore players.hmsdragonfly wrote: »snakester320 wrote: »I'll prob get hate for this but it been my argument about eso from the start the lack of individual classes set for specific purpose sure it great to use a stamplar and other hybrids but there are so many failed groups because classes such as a tank healer and dps are not in forced ... how many times have I seen a mage try to heal and a nightblade try to tank .. sure it may be good for made groups and the elitist who are very good but the general population who ( be honest keep theses mmos ticking over ) are not hardcore players .. have no idea and cause these fails...imo the system is broken and it feels like a lazy arse attempt on ZOS part to just make 4-5 classes but lets you stick a sword and shield on or a healing staff and call your self a healer or a tank..
Sorcs can heal and Nightblades can tank. People who can't heal with sorc certainly won't be able to heal with Templar and people who can't tank with Nightblade certainly can't tank with DK. They are just bad players.
It's not "a lazy arse attempt", it's the main selling point of this game: people can fill in any role as any class, as long as they are built for it. It's a trait coming from the TES franchise, it's the thing that makes this game unique instead of a generic WoW clone.
1) Can you please add some commas?
2) You have been in many failed groups because ZOS failed to explain the basic dungeon mechanics to players, as in, there should be a tutorial which explains to players basic mechanics like tanks should taunt or something like that but they didn't do it. So we have clueless players who have no idea of what to do in a dungeon, so DDs spam bow light attacks, tanks don't taunt, healers don't have healing abilities etc. It has nothing to do with the freedom to choose whatever role you want. Making classes built for specific roles isn't going to solve anything, tanks will still not taunt and DDs will still spam bow light attacks.
3) No one will buy this game if it is a WoW clone. This is an Elder Scrolls game. That name means something. It's a franchise where players are free to build their characters however they want, use any weapons they want, any spell they want, making classes is already a step backwards, copying the outdated WoW class system will be a nail in the coffin for the game before it's even released. That system is bad for buildcrafting while Elder Scrolls franchise is famous for its freedom of buildcrafting.
4) There's no such thing as "DPS classes". All classes are given all the tools needed to heal/tank/DPS. Sorcs can heal. If a player picks sorc but can't heal, if you give that guy a Templar, he will also not be able to heal as Templar. Both sorc and Templar are given the tools they need to heal.Edited by hmsdragonfly on August 6, 2017 3:22AMAldmeri Dominion Loyalist. For the Queen!2 -
Blacksmoke✭✭✭✭✭As a healer myself I think that giving buffs/debuffs is extremy important especially if you look at all the options you have, resource managment falls under this in my opinion templars are great at this. Sorc has a higher raw healing output but doesnt bring much more then that. Wardens do offer more utility but have lower healing output and require more teamwork to get the maximum potential. So for trails and pug dungeon groups templars are the best if you are in a coordinated team with "meta" builds sorcs and warden will work as wellChampion point: 645CharactersGanlian Stormian - AD - Dungeon healer - Templar - CrafterOndaril Stormian - AD - Trail DPS - SorcererShagrod gro-Bolmog - AD - PVP - Dragonknight0 -
snakester320✭✭✭✭
Don't know how it's a step backward when it's a formula that has worked for far longer than eso will ever survive then asking ppl to sub to a game not make the sub optional then rip money out of players for everything they can ( off topic ) ..hmsdragonfly wrote: »snakester320 wrote: »snakester320 wrote: »I'll prob get hate for this but it been my argument about eso frome 4-5 classes but lets you stick a sword and shield on or a healing staff and call your self a healer or a tank..
Either way still makes for a lot of fail groups and while there's always hardcore and elitist players most mmos are made up of casuals there's what keeps the game alive ( that's the truth ) fact is it not the point of if a player is bad or good the fact remains while there's a choice it allows dungeon groups fail far more times that the generic wow clone as you put it which seems to work more smoothly.. I've played wow and ffxiv and eso I've been in more fail groups in eso because there's ppl queuing as tanks with dps classes or sorcs that think there a healing class but can't heal .. then most of the time I have to rely on self heals as a dps makes stupid sense.... its still a lazy attempt imo why not add more interesting classes that are built for specific roles ... even though wow is in some regards a dead game its formula has been that of sheer genius and will always be the benchmark of mmos gone are days of hardcore mmos catered to that style casuals own mmos these days ppl who don't give to Sh.ts about rotations procs and all that bs and just want to have fun and play....there what keeps the game alive for hardcore players.hmsdragonfly wrote: »snakester320 wrote: »I'll prob get hate for this but it been my argument about eso from the start the lack of individual classes set for specific purpose sure it great to use a stamplar and other hybrids but there are so many failed groups because classes such as a tank healer and dps are not in forced ... how many times have I seen a mage try to heal and a nightblade try to tank .. sure it may be good for made groups and the elitist who are very good but the general population who ( be honest keep theses mmos ticking over ) are not hardcore players .. have no idea and cause these fails...imo the system is broken and it feels like a lazy arse attempt on ZOS part to just make 4-5 classes but lets you stick a sword and shield on or a healing staff and call your self a healer or a tank..
Sorcs can heal and Nightblades can tank. People who can't heal with sorc certainly won't be able to heal with Templar and people who can't tank with Nightblade certainly can't tank with DK. They are just bad players.
It's not "a lazy arse attempt", it's the main selling point of this game: people can fill in any role as any class, as long as they are built for it. It's a trait coming from the TES franchise, it's the thing that makes this game unique instead of a generic WoW clone.
1) Can you please add some commas?
2) You have been in many failed groups because ZOS failed to explain the basic dungeon mechanics to players, as in, there should be a tutorial which explains to players basic mechanics like tanks should taunt or something like that but they didn't do it. So we have clueless players who have no idea of what to do in a dungeon, so DDs spam bow light attacks, tanks don't taunt, healers don't have healing abilities etc. Making classes built for specific roles isn't going to solve anything, tanks will still not taunt and DDs will still spam bow light attacks.
3) No one will buy this game if it is a WoW clone. This is an Elder Scrolls game. That name means something. It's a franchise where players are free to build their characters however they want, use any weapons they want, any spell they want, making classes is already a step backwards, copying the outdated WoW class system will be a nail in the coffin for the game before it's even released. That system is bad for buildcrafting while Elder Scrolls franchise is famous for its freedom of buildcrafting.
4) There's no such thing as "DPS classes". All classes are given all the tools needed to heal/tank/DPS.
Then how can noobs be better tanks and healers in other mmos than in eso ? Seems to me other games have tanks specifically built with specific tools / abilitys made for tanking?
All I'm saying is the system is yes different and is interesting it's still is that of a stupid formula that causes more frustration and fail groups with players than a dated but still widely used system that works far better!
Edited by snakester320 on August 6, 2017 3:34AM0 -
kargen27✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭"What is it exactly that you want the DPS's to do?"
Their job.
And that means what ever the group requires for a successful run. Simply doing damage, that isn't enough.
Healing only isn't enough for the healer seems only fair damage only shouldn't be tolerated either.and then the parrot said, "must be the water mines green too."2 -
Kneighbors✭✭✭✭✭From what I saw any class but templar forgets about resources sharing. Maybe only one of every 20 heals-not-templars you will meet in the game will send orbs. Its really rare to meet dedicated healer other than Templar. I didn't even see a Warden runing SPC yet, not talking about other classes.
So yea, if guild is oriented for vet trials there is no point to keep amateurs who like to R.P. and being carried.
If you are looking forward to becoming vet trials heal theres no point to lvl up anyone besides templar (or dedicated warden)1 -
AbysmalGhul✭✭✭✭✭
✭hmsdragonfly wrote: »AbysmalGhul wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »AbysmalGhul wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »
With the change to orb, every class can heal in vet trial now, just like every class can DPS. Some classes might be better than others, but all are viable enough to complete the content.
I have to disagree. Sure, any class can heal, but can they heal effectively in harder vet content such as trials? The answer is no. A Nightblade, Sorcerer , or even a Warden healer can only compliment a Templar healer. With the exception of the Warden, the others fall short in every department when being the lead healer. I have seen some pretty solid NB healers, but they can't even pose as a personal healer for the tank in vet trials let alone heal an entire group who almost got wiped in one hit.
You can effectively in harder vet content such as trials with any class. Tell me what Sorc, DK or Nightblade lack that makes them unable to heal vet trials effectively. Nothing. It used to be the case that they can't feed stamina to the tank, now they can. They have everything in their kit to heal in vet trials.
Please, demonstrate a build that would be highly effective in veteran trials for a Sorcerer, Dragonknight, or Nightblade? I have yet to see one. Like I said, they can compliment a Templar healer, but can't stand on their own.
Exact the same gear you use on Templar.
Skills:
DK:
Front bar (Restro): Rapid Regen - Combat Prayer- Healing Springs - Healing Ward - Inner Light/Cauterize | Ult: Barrier/Magma Shell
Back bar (Destro): Molten Armanents - Mystic Orb - Elemental Drain - Igneous Shield - Harness Magicka | Ult: Aggressive Warhorn
Sorc:
Front bar (Restro): Rapid Regen - Combat Prayer - Healing Springs - Inner Light/Empowered Ward - Twilight Matriarch | Ult: Overload
Back bar (Destro): Power Surge - Blockade of Lightning - Elemental Drain - Mystic Orb - Twilight Matriarch | Ult: Aggressive Warhorn
Overload bar: Boundless Storm - Ball of Lightning - Dark Conversion - Empowered Ward - Twilight Matriarch
Nightblade:
Front bar (Restro): Rapid Regen - Combat Prayer- Healing Springs - Healing Ward - Inner Light | Ult: Soul Siphon/Barrier
Back bar (Destro): Sap Essence/Entropy - Mystic Orb - Elemental Drain - Refreshing Path/Siphoning Attacks - Harness Magicka | Ult: Aggressive Warhorn
Let's go champ.
Alright pal. I see...I'm not sure if I'm seeing doubles or....quadruples...but.... they all look alike...copy n paste....*goes blind. from generic healing builds....0 -
kargen27✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Going back to what the OP was talking about. I am in a guild that makes runs at the leader board. They are very good though at helping new members and offer trial runs throughout the week (normal and vet) that anyone in the guild can join. They do at least one training run a week where everything is explained for as long as it takes for people unfamiliar with the dungeon to get what is going on. This includes the big guns holding back and sometimes wiping on purpose to go over things again. When it comes to running for the leader board though that is when they get picky. You come in knowing there are elite groups and you know what is expected to become a member of the elite group. Cool thing is they help you through the whole thing with gear, builds, rotations whatever you need. The way they see things the more elite groups you have going the better chance the guild has at the top spot. And the more elite players they have the better chance of getting an impromptu group together when there isn't much else to do.
A guild that will just boot a player for a non templar healer doesn't seem like a very forward thinking guild nor one that is worth joining.and then the parrot said, "must be the water mines green too."2 -
paulsimonps✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭"What is it exactly that you want the DPS's to do?"
Their job.
And that means what ever the group requires for a successful run. Simply doing damage, that isn't enough.
Healing only isn't enough for the healer seems only fair damage only shouldn't be tolerated either.
Ah yes, obviously, why didn't I think of that......
Cause their ain't anything else for them to do. A well made Tank and Healer should already have that all covered. Only in very specific situations are Damage Dealers doing anything but dealing damage. Again, there are not a lot of buffs that have to be given out, and Tanks have Healers got plenty of time to use them. No need to have the Damage Dealers lower their DPS for that. Few examples I can think of where DPS's need to do something that is not DPS'ing is Twins in Maw(Chaining), Meteor Team in Maw(They can still DPS while doing it), Ranged team on the Mantikora in SO(They can still DPS while doing it), and possibly using a few Purges in Halls of Fabrication. In Dungeons, there is really no situation I can think of that would require them to do anything but deal damage that isn't part of a specific mechanics to a boss, Wayrest 2 comes to mind, the altars.
But in the regards of giving buffs, Tanks and Healers go it covered.1 -
AbysmalGhul✭✭✭✭✭
✭A guild that will just boot a player for a non templar healer doesn't seem like a very forward thinking guild nor one that is worth joining.
Agreed. Who needs them if their attitude towards others if affected by their choice of class/ builds. I'd rather be in a guild with genuine people instead of elitist hotheads.
0 -
Tasear✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »exeeter702 wrote: »
Open up the leader boards for any trial. Count how many non-templar healers are on there.
Templar is unquestionably the best healer in the game. Warden comes in at a close second (hence why some teams run a warden healer now too).
You can definitely complete vet trials with sorc/DK/NB healer, but you won't be getting on the leader boards.
You can't tell :'(
But I wish... I might feel more competitive if I could say I was top dog sorc healer. ( Pride yo) Though right somewhere middle ranks just looks like I was a damage dealer with 2 Templars in group.Edited by Tasear on August 7, 2017 3:22AM1 -
Tasear✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭hmsdragonfly wrote: »AbysmalGhul wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »AbysmalGhul wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »
With the change to orb, every class can heal in vet trial now, just like every class can DPS. Some classes might be better than others, but all are viable enough to complete the content.
I have to disagree. Sure, any class can heal, but can they heal effectively in harder vet content such as trials? The answer is no. A Nightblade, Sorcerer , or even a Warden healer can only compliment a Templar healer. With the exception of the Warden, the others fall short in every department when being the lead healer. I have seen some pretty solid NB healers, but they can't even pose as a personal healer for the tank in vet trials let alone heal an entire group who almost got wiped in one hit.
You can effectively in harder vet content such as trials with any class. Tell me what Sorc, DK or Nightblade lack that makes them unable to heal vet trials effectively. Nothing. It used to be the case that they can't feed stamina to the tank, now they can. They have everything in their kit to heal in vet trials.
Please, demonstrate a build that would be highly effective in veteran trials for a Sorcerer, Dragonknight, or Nightblade? I have yet to see one. Like I said, they can compliment a Templar healer, but can't stand on their own.
Exact the same gear you use on Templar.
Skills:
DK:
Front bar (Restro): Rapid Regen - Combat Prayer- Healing Springs - Healing Ward - Inner Light/Cauterize | Ult: Barrier/Magma Shell
Back bar (Destro): Molten Armanents - Mystic Orb - Elemental Drain - Igneous Shield - Harness Magicka | Ult: Aggressive Warhorn
Sorc:
Front bar (Restro): Rapid Regen - Combat Prayer - Healing Springs - Inner Light/Empowered Ward - Twilight Matriarch | Ult: Overload
Back bar (Destro): Power Surge - Blockade of Lightning - Elemental Drain - Mystic Orb - Twilight Matriarch | Ult: Aggressive Warhorn
Overload bar: Boundless Storm - Ball of Lightning - Dark Conversion - Empowered Ward - Twilight Matriarch
Nightblade:
Front bar (Restro): Rapid Regen - Combat Prayer- Healing Springs - Healing Ward - Inner Light | Ult: Soul Siphon/Barrier
Back bar (Destro): Sap Essence/Entropy - Mystic Orb - Elemental Drain - Refreshing Path/Siphoning Attacks - Harness Magicka | Ult: Aggressive Warhorn
Let's go champ.
Just passing by while enjoying popcorn,
Okay couldn't let one go putting emprowerd ward on bar 3 will get you killed. Also takes away from easy access of minor intellect. Most of are over healing so bound aegis over mage light better choice at higher levels.Now putting ball of lighting on third sounds fun, I know this one sorc healer gets in position with in vAA and vMOl. Also I heard you can avoid vhrc meotors this way.Boundless storm might actually slot this... for moments I need a bit more defensive so take this insightful.
Edit
Given option absportion magic is better for trials if you know when to use and what it does not that few people know. For randoms storm attonach is useful especially for random normals. But sorrecer healing is all about tatactics or so I think.
Edited by Tasear on August 6, 2017 5:35AM0 -
hmsdragonfly✭✭✭✭✭
✭AbysmalGhul wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »AbysmalGhul wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »AbysmalGhul wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »
With the change to orb, every class can heal in vet trial now, just like every class can DPS. Some classes might be better than others, but all are viable enough to complete the content.
I have to disagree. Sure, any class can heal, but can they heal effectively in harder vet content such as trials? The answer is no. A Nightblade, Sorcerer , or even a Warden healer can only compliment a Templar healer. With the exception of the Warden, the others fall short in every department when being the lead healer. I have seen some pretty solid NB healers, but they can't even pose as a personal healer for the tank in vet trials let alone heal an entire group who almost got wiped in one hit.
You can effectively in harder vet content such as trials with any class. Tell me what Sorc, DK or Nightblade lack that makes them unable to heal vet trials effectively. Nothing. It used to be the case that they can't feed stamina to the tank, now they can. They have everything in their kit to heal in vet trials.
Please, demonstrate a build that would be highly effective in veteran trials for a Sorcerer, Dragonknight, or Nightblade? I have yet to see one. Like I said, they can compliment a Templar healer, but can't stand on their own.
Exact the same gear you use on Templar.
Skills:
DK:
Front bar (Restro): Rapid Regen - Combat Prayer- Healing Springs - Healing Ward - Inner Light/Cauterize | Ult: Barrier/Magma Shell
Back bar (Destro): Molten Armanents - Mystic Orb - Elemental Drain - Igneous Shield - Harness Magicka | Ult: Aggressive Warhorn
Sorc:
Front bar (Restro): Rapid Regen - Combat Prayer - Healing Springs - Inner Light/Empowered Ward - Twilight Matriarch | Ult: Overload
Back bar (Destro): Power Surge - Blockade of Lightning - Elemental Drain - Mystic Orb - Twilight Matriarch | Ult: Aggressive Warhorn
Overload bar: Boundless Storm - Ball of Lightning - Dark Conversion - Empowered Ward - Twilight Matriarch
Nightblade:
Front bar (Restro): Rapid Regen - Combat Prayer- Healing Springs - Healing Ward - Inner Light | Ult: Soul Siphon/Barrier
Back bar (Destro): Sap Essence/Entropy - Mystic Orb - Elemental Drain - Refreshing Path/Siphoning Attacks - Harness Magicka | Ult: Aggressive Warhorn
Let's go champ.
Alright pal. I see...I'm not sure if I'm seeing doubles or....quadruples...but.... they all look alike...copy n paste....*goes blind. from generic healing builds....
You are assuming that Templar's healing abilities are a lot different? No lol.
Templar:
Front bar (Restro): Rapid Regen - Combat Prayer- Healing Springs - Breath of Life - Inner Light | Ult: Barrier/Solar Disturbance
Back bar (Destro): Channeled Focus - Luminous Shards - Extended Ritual - Harness Magicka - Radiant Aura | Ult: Aggressive Warhorn
The only difference is that Templar healers run Shards and Radiant Aura instead of Orbs and Ele Drain, then everyone runs Rapid Regen, Combat Prayer, Healing Springs, Inner Light, Barrier and Aggressive Warhorn, and then class-specific abilities.
Yes you are blind. Your attempt to troll is pathetic and you should feel bad about it.Edited by hmsdragonfly on August 6, 2017 10:18AMAldmeri Dominion Loyalist. For the Queen!1 -
Magdalina✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭That's 2 questions with different answers.
1) Is resource management help important for a healer? Yes, very much so, and the more difficult the content, the more important it is.
2) Does that make templar the only viable healer? No it doesn't(though that coupled up with BoL and Purifying still makes templar best Trial healer). Drain and orbs(which now restore stamina as well - though their synergy could definitely use some love) are available to everyone, and should be used by everyone(every healer I mean). Repentance is now useless in terms of stamina management so only thing templars have better is shards, and that's mainly due to more reliable synergy than orbs(plus both resources restore is nice). Tbh I'm having a hard time imagining any viable reason to kick non templar healers unless it was perhaps a very strict hardcore raiding guild aimed at #1 vet trials spots(and even then - why kick? Most people have alts, just ask them to come on another character for vTrials). But then if you were part of such guild I don't think you'd be asking such questions (no offence intended) sooo...I'd say screw that guild.3 -
hmsdragonfly✭✭✭✭✭
✭snakester320 wrote: »
Don't know how it's a step backward when it's a formula that has worked for far longer than eso will ever survive then asking ppl to sub to a game not make the sub optional then rip money out of players for everything they can ( off topic ) ..hmsdragonfly wrote: »snakester320 wrote: »snakester320 wrote: »I'll prob get hate for this but it been my argument about eso frome 4-5 classes but lets you stick a sword and shield on or a healing staff and call your self a healer or a tank..
Either way still makes for a lot of fail groups and while there's always hardcore and elitist players most mmos are made up of casuals there's what keeps the game alive ( that's the truth ) fact is it not the point of if a player is bad or good the fact remains while there's a choice it allows dungeon groups fail far more times that the generic wow clone as you put it which seems to work more smoothly.. I've played wow and ffxiv and eso I've been in more fail groups in eso because there's ppl queuing as tanks with dps classes or sorcs that think there a healing class but can't heal .. then most of the time I have to rely on self heals as a dps makes stupid sense.... its still a lazy attempt imo why not add more interesting classes that are built for specific roles ... even though wow is in some regards a dead game its formula has been that of sheer genius and will always be the benchmark of mmos gone are days of hardcore mmos catered to that style casuals own mmos these days ppl who don't give to Sh.ts about rotations procs and all that bs and just want to have fun and play....there what keeps the game alive for hardcore players.hmsdragonfly wrote: »snakester320 wrote: »I'll prob get hate for this but it been my argument about eso from the start the lack of individual classes set for specific purpose sure it great to use a stamplar and other hybrids but there are so many failed groups because classes such as a tank healer and dps are not in forced ... how many times have I seen a mage try to heal and a nightblade try to tank .. sure it may be good for made groups and the elitist who are very good but the general population who ( be honest keep theses mmos ticking over ) are not hardcore players .. have no idea and cause these fails...imo the system is broken and it feels like a lazy arse attempt on ZOS part to just make 4-5 classes but lets you stick a sword and shield on or a healing staff and call your self a healer or a tank..
Sorcs can heal and Nightblades can tank. People who can't heal with sorc certainly won't be able to heal with Templar and people who can't tank with Nightblade certainly can't tank with DK. They are just bad players.
It's not "a lazy arse attempt", it's the main selling point of this game: people can fill in any role as any class, as long as they are built for it. It's a trait coming from the TES franchise, it's the thing that makes this game unique instead of a generic WoW clone.
1) Can you please add some commas?
2) You have been in many failed groups because ZOS failed to explain the basic dungeon mechanics to players, as in, there should be a tutorial which explains to players basic mechanics like tanks should taunt or something like that but they didn't do it. So we have clueless players who have no idea of what to do in a dungeon, so DDs spam bow light attacks, tanks don't taunt, healers don't have healing abilities etc. Making classes built for specific roles isn't going to solve anything, tanks will still not taunt and DDs will still spam bow light attacks.
3) No one will buy this game if it is a WoW clone. This is an Elder Scrolls game. That name means something. It's a franchise where players are free to build their characters however they want, use any weapons they want, any spell they want, making classes is already a step backwards, copying the outdated WoW class system will be a nail in the coffin for the game before it's even released. That system is bad for buildcrafting while Elder Scrolls franchise is famous for its freedom of buildcrafting.
4) There's no such thing as "DPS classes". All classes are given all the tools needed to heal/tank/DPS.
Then how can noobs be better tanks and healers in other mmos than in eso ? Seems to me other games have tanks specifically built with specific tools / abilitys made for tanking?
All I'm saying is the system is yes different and is interesting it's still is that of a stupid formula that causes more frustration and fail groups with players than a dated but still widely used system that works far better!
That formula worked for other MMOs but isn't going to work for this specific game called Elder Scrolls Online. No one will buy a game with "Elder Scrolls" in its title if there's no freedom of buildcrafting and if the game is solely a generic WoW clone. Do you know why MMORPG as a genre is dying? Because every MMO is trying to be a WoW clone, there's a lack of innovation in MMOs, there's no new fomula, people face the same thing again and again, no new experience to be gained, so apparently people get burnt out. If a person stops playing WoW, why the hell will he play something that is similar to WoW instead? People want new experiences, for that, new MMOs that want to be successful have to bring something very unique to the table, something that players have never seen before. For ESO, it's the freedom of choices to choose any role you want, it's the freedom to use any weapons you want, it's the diversity of buildcrafting. Bearing "Elder Scrolls" in its title, this is exactly how the game should be. It's the thing that makes this game unique compared to other MMOs (which is essential for MMO players to even buy this game), it's also the thing that makes this game a true Elder Scrolls game (which is essential for TES players to buy this game). Again, for the 99th time, please read this: the freedom of choice to the role isn't what makes your groups fail. ZOS failed to explain the basic dungeon mechanics to players, as in, there should be a tutorial which explains to players basic mechanics like tanks should taunt or something like that but they didn't do it. So we have clueless players who have no idea of what to do in a dungeon, so DDs spam bow light attacks, tanks don't taunt, healers don't have healing abilities etc. Making classes built for specific roles isn't going to solve anything, tanks will still not taunt and DDs will still spam bow light attacks. It doesn't create failed groups, the fact that there's no explanation to basic mechanics by Zenimax's end creates failed group.hmsdragonfly wrote: »AbysmalGhul wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »AbysmalGhul wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »
With the change to orb, every class can heal in vet trial now, just like every class can DPS. Some classes might be better than others, but all are viable enough to complete the content.
I have to disagree. Sure, any class can heal, but can they heal effectively in harder vet content such as trials? The answer is no. A Nightblade, Sorcerer , or even a Warden healer can only compliment a Templar healer. With the exception of the Warden, the others fall short in every department when being the lead healer. I have seen some pretty solid NB healers, but they can't even pose as a personal healer for the tank in vet trials let alone heal an entire group who almost got wiped in one hit.
You can effectively in harder vet content such as trials with any class. Tell me what Sorc, DK or Nightblade lack that makes them unable to heal vet trials effectively. Nothing. It used to be the case that they can't feed stamina to the tank, now they can. They have everything in their kit to heal in vet trials.
Please, demonstrate a build that would be highly effective in veteran trials for a Sorcerer, Dragonknight, or Nightblade? I have yet to see one. Like I said, they can compliment a Templar healer, but can't stand on their own.
Exact the same gear you use on Templar.
Skills:
DK:
Front bar (Restro): Rapid Regen - Combat Prayer- Healing Springs - Healing Ward - Inner Light/Cauterize | Ult: Barrier/Magma Shell
Back bar (Destro): Molten Armanents - Mystic Orb - Elemental Drain - Igneous Shield - Harness Magicka | Ult: Aggressive Warhorn
Sorc:
Front bar (Restro): Rapid Regen - Combat Prayer - Healing Springs - Inner Light/Empowered Ward - Twilight Matriarch | Ult: Overload
Back bar (Destro): Power Surge - Blockade of Lightning - Elemental Drain - Mystic Orb - Twilight Matriarch | Ult: Aggressive Warhorn
Overload bar: Boundless Storm - Ball of Lightning - Dark Conversion - Empowered Ward - Twilight Matriarch
Nightblade:
Front bar (Restro): Rapid Regen - Combat Prayer- Healing Springs - Healing Ward - Inner Light | Ult: Soul Siphon/Barrier
Back bar (Destro): Sap Essence/Entropy - Mystic Orb - Elemental Drain - Refreshing Path/Siphoning Attacks - Harness Magicka | Ult: Aggressive Warhorn
Let's go champ.
Just passing by while enjoying popcorn,
Okay couldn't let one go putting emprowerd ward on bar 3 will get you killed. Also takes away from easy access of minor intellect. Most of are over healing so bound aegis over mage light better choice at higher levels.Now putting ball of lighting on third sounds fun, I know this one sorc healer gets in position with in vAA and vMOl. Also I heard you can avoid vhrc meotors this way.Boundless storm might actually slot this... for moments I need a bit more defensive so take this insightful.
Edit
Given option absportion magic is better for trials if you know when to use and what it does not that few people know. For randoms storm attonach is useful especially for random normals. But sorrecer healing is all about tatactics or so I think.
Yup for vet trials you should slot Empowered Ward instead of Inner Light but i am a cheap *** I don't want to drink spell power pots while doing vet dungeons. :P
Aldmeri Dominion Loyalist. For the Queen!2 -
hmsdragonfly✭✭✭✭✭
✭Kneighbors wrote: »From what I saw any class but templar forgets about resources sharing. Maybe only one of every 20 heals-not-templars you will meet in the game will send orbs. Its really rare to meet dedicated healer other than Templar. I didn't even see a Warden runing SPC yet, not talking about other classes.
So yea, if guild is oriented for vet trials there is no point to keep amateurs who like to R.P. and being carried.
If you are looking forward to becoming vet trials heal theres no point to lvl up anyone besides templar (or dedicated warden)
This is a weak argument. Non-Templar healers who don't throw orbs will also not throw shards if they happen to be Templar instead. Non-Templar healers who don't wear SPC will also not wear SPC if they happen to be Templar. At this current state you can heal effectively in vet trial as any class, so your assertion is wrong.Aldmeri Dominion Loyalist. For the Queen!3 -
kargen27✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭paulsimonps wrote: »"What is it exactly that you want the DPS's to do?"
Their job.
And that means what ever the group requires for a successful run. Simply doing damage, that isn't enough.
Healing only isn't enough for the healer seems only fair damage only shouldn't be tolerated either.
Ah yes, obviously, why didn't I think of that......
Cause their ain't anything else for them to do. A well made Tank and Healer should already have that all covered. Only in very specific situations are Damage Dealers doing anything but dealing damage. Again, there are not a lot of buffs that have to be given out, and Tanks have Healers got plenty of time to use them. No need to have the Damage Dealers lower their DPS for that. Few examples I can think of where DPS's need to do something that is not DPS'ing is Twins in Maw(Chaining), Meteor Team in Maw(They can still DPS while doing it), Ranged team on the Mantikora in SO(They can still DPS while doing it), and possibly using a few Purges in Halls of Fabrication. In Dungeons, there is really no situation I can think of that would require them to do anything but deal damage that isn't part of a specific mechanics to a boss, Wayrest 2 comes to mind, the altars.
But in the regards of giving buffs, Tanks and Healers go it covered.
"Ah yes, obviously, why didn't I think of that......"
Well I have an answer for that but probably goes against the agreement I agreed to when joining the forums. Now you are just being silly if you think DPS can't contribute to their own sustain or shouldn't. Again, doesn't apply to all situations but there are those times when ya gotta throw in something extra. I'm still not sure where you get the idea that overall the group suffers if the DPS has to do something besides just stand there and swing. Sure maybe the top one percent can get by with the DPS acting the fool but ya still have the 99% that needs the DPS to pull their weight. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say the guild in question (the one the OP is talking about) doesn't fall anywhere near that one percent.
I suppose so long as the group is willing to let you coast more power to ya...and then the parrot said, "must be the water mines green too."0 -
hmsdragonfly✭✭✭✭✭
✭paulsimonps wrote: »AbysmalGhul wrote: »AbysmalGhul wrote: »paulsimonps wrote: »AbysmalGhul wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »AbysmalGhul wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »
With the change to orb, every class can heal in vet trial now, just like every class can DPS. Some classes might be better than others, but all are viable enough to complete the content.
I have to disagree. Sure, any class can heal, but can they heal effectively in harder vet content such as trials? The answer is no. A Nightblade, Sorcerer , or even a Warden healer can only compliment a Templar healer. With the exception of the Warden, the others fall short in every department when being the lead healer. I have seen some pretty solid NB healers, but they can't even pose as a personal healer for the tank in vet trials let alone heal an entire group who almost got wiped in one hit.
You can effectively in harder vet content such as trials with any class. Tell me what Sorc, DK or Nightblade lack that makes them unable to heal vet trials effectively. Nothing. It used to be the case that they can't feed stamina to the tank, now they can. They have everything in their kit to heal in vet trials.
Please, demonstrate a build that would be highly effective in veteran trials for a Sorcerer, Dragonknight, or Nightblade? I have yet to see one. Like I said, they can compliment a Templar healer, but can't stand on their own.
Exact same gear and CP set up as a Templar, just swap around some skills, and Boom you're golden.
I'll create a build and check it out myself. This should be interesting enough.
*Whispers* If you build it, they will be healed
Results are in. I built it, but nobody got healed.
Define "nobody got healed" Did you make a healer build that did zero HPS? What do you mean.
He tried to troll, but apparently it was quite pathetic.
Aldmeri Dominion Loyalist. For the Queen!2 -
hmsdragonfly✭✭✭✭✭
✭paulsimonps wrote: »"What is it exactly that you want the DPS's to do?"
Their job.
And that means what ever the group requires for a successful run. Simply doing damage, that isn't enough.
Healing only isn't enough for the healer seems only fair damage only shouldn't be tolerated either.
Ah yes, obviously, why didn't I think of that......
Cause their ain't anything else for them to do. A well made Tank and Healer should already have that all covered. Only in very specific situations are Damage Dealers doing anything but dealing damage. Again, there are not a lot of buffs that have to be given out, and Tanks have Healers got plenty of time to use them. No need to have the Damage Dealers lower their DPS for that. Few examples I can think of where DPS's need to do something that is not DPS'ing is Twins in Maw(Chaining), Meteor Team in Maw(They can still DPS while doing it), Ranged team on the Mantikora in SO(They can still DPS while doing it), and possibly using a few Purges in Halls of Fabrication. In Dungeons, there is really no situation I can think of that would require them to do anything but deal damage that isn't part of a specific mechanics to a boss, Wayrest 2 comes to mind, the altars.
But in the regards of giving buffs, Tanks and Healers go it covered.
"Ah yes, obviously, why didn't I think of that......"
Well I have an answer for that but probably goes against the agreement I agreed to when joining the forums. Now you are just being silly if you think DPS can't contribute to their own sustain or shouldn't. Again, doesn't apply to all situations but there are those times when ya gotta throw in something extra. I'm still not sure where you get the idea that overall the group suffers if the DPS has to do something besides just stand there and swing. Sure maybe the top one percent can get by with the DPS acting the fool but ya still have the 99% that needs the DPS to pull their weight. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say the guild in question (the one the OP is talking about) doesn't fall anywhere near that one percent.
I suppose so long as the group is willing to let you coast more power to ya...
You miss his entire point. It's far more optimal if the healers throw buff/debuff in their rotation, and when they can't cast them because people are dying, simply don't cast them. No one is asking you to cast buff/debuff when people are dying, just don't, but this happens very rarely, so don't be lazy and stand there overhealing everything. Having healers and DDs to cast overlapping buff/debuff is stupid, it's either the healers or the DDs who do it, and if the DDs do it, there will be a DPS loss to the entire group. Don't forget that top tier DDs can pull 50k-60k DPS so having them to spend one second to cast buff/debuff in every 10 seconds, it's a loss of MILLIONS damage in a 5-minute fight.
P/S: paulsimonps is a main tank, so am I, we are not DDs, we are speaking from a neutral perspective. Please don't treat us like "lazy DDs who don't want to do anything beside swinging".Edited by hmsdragonfly on August 6, 2017 10:39AMAldmeri Dominion Loyalist. For the Queen!1 -
Dantaria✭✭✭✭✭
You've never been in any vTrial, have you?Now you are just being silly if you think DPS can't contribute to their own sustain or shouldn't. Again, doesn't apply to all situations but there are those times when ya gotta throw in something extra. I'm still not sure where you get the idea that overall the group suffers if the DPS has to do something besides just stand there and swing.
Any end-game content (personally I also throw vet DLC dungeons here) is about very specified role performance. You always see it in decent vTrial groups: tanks tank and shield the group, healers only heal and help with resources (in vTrials healers do 0 damage. Check out any vTrial build - both bars are filled with heals and buffs, because incoming dmg in vTrials is huge and you want it to be over asap, so you buff your DDs) and your DDs...
Your DDs are pure glass canons They honestly have pathetic health and sad resource management. Resource management of good DD is always around bare minimum. Because in ESO the only way to achieve 35k+ on boss is to spec fully in damage. And trust me, you do want your DDs to have 35k+ on boss in vTrial, because it honestly makes things ez-pz.
Buffing your 35k+ DDs will do much more good than any DPS contribution you can possibly make on healer. Giving your 35k+ DDs resources so they sustain their 35k+ will do much more good than any DPS contribution you can possibly make on healer.
Do think about it. If your DDs are good, giving them resources and buffing them is just much more effective than you trying to DPS or do something else.
I both DDed and healed vTrials and Hist dungeons As a DD I know a struggle of "***, it was 37k until now, but I NEED ORBS PLZ". As a healer I know how easy things are if everything just... burns 
So I will do anything in my power to help my dearest glass cannons to BURN THE S**T
***
As for Templar Healer in general... It's honestly just more reliable. If you want to go "vTrials" root, you need from your healer:
a) Good HoTs and buffs;
b) Help with resources;
c) Burst heal.
On Warrior with his "Thousand cuts, like...", on Rakkhat with his Barrage the tank is losing health rapidly, so you need a healer who can heal huge and fast. a) and b) are self-explanatory.
Templar just... excels. I will be honest: if I were to choose between Templar Healer and Any-Other-Healer in vTrial group, I would choose Templar. Because Any-Other-Healer needs to be very experienced player, who knows s**t well. If I don't know these people and only see a class, Templar is just safe choice. Templar Healer can be worse player overall, but I just always know that he has BoL which he can spam on Warrior on Thousand Cuts and things will be peechy.
Templar is easy and even average player (like me ) will heal vTrial ez-pz. Average player on sorc or nb healer is catastrophy.
English isn't my native, apologies for any mistakes.3 -
LadyDestiny✭✭✭✭✭So, one of the guilds I was in...at least until yesterday...asked (told) all healers other then templars to get out of the guild. He followed up the chat rant with an email rant saying the same thing. He's the guild leader, he's well within his rights to run the guild as he sees fit. His issue seemed to be with providing stam to the group. Something I gather he felt made other healers useless. I am curious as to how many agree with his stance? <edited> To clarify, I'm curious about the stance of a healer needs to be a resource manager as well. It is my pleasure to assist the group however I can with whatever tools I may have (in this case a sorc). Also, as I had never grouped with the GL, this wasn't a personal attack at me nor did I take it as one.
This guy acts like healers or anybody for that matter don't play other classes too. Who cares what character you are playing. I have a templar healer, but if I want to play my stam warden for a bit so be it. Guy sounds like a real joy to be around.....not. Dump him and his guild and join another one. Play how YOU want to play. That guy didn't pay for your game. People like that really make me angry..... As long as it is not really difficult content like trials, I don't see the issue.Edited by LadyDestiny on August 6, 2017 12:08PM1 -
GreenhaloX✭✭✭✭✭
✭So, one of the guilds I was in...at least until yesterday...asked (told) all healers other then templars to get out of the guild. He followed up the chat rant with an email rant saying the same thing. He's the guild leader, he's well within his rights to run the guild as he sees fit. His issue seemed to be with providing stam to the group. Something I gather he felt made other healers useless. I am curious as to how many agree with his stance? <edited> To clarify, I'm curious about the stance of a healer needs to be a resource manager as well. It is my pleasure to assist the group however I can with whatever tools I may have (in this case a sorc). Also, as I had never grouped with the GL, this wasn't a personal attack at me nor did I take it as one.
Ha ha.. such a stand-up GM there. Guild of the year nomination (if such existed), yeah..?1 -
DocFrost72✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Tan9oSuccka wrote: »paulsimonps wrote: »Tan9oSuccka wrote: »Lord_Dexter wrote: »Evey class can do any role but some class are better than others in specific roles, I have been in this game from 2+ years and played with every class and role:
DK as Main Tank
Sorcerer as DPS
Templar as Healers
Nighblade as DPS (best in single target dps and top in pvp aka Ganker
recenty got ganked in IC and lost around 40k TV
Warden as Healer and Tank
Not according to most in this thread.
I suggest they tank some Pug Vets.
I honestly change my build around for them. Oh great....A Sorcerer healer. Better put on Engine Guardian and Vigor. (Not only will I get weak heals, but also nothing in resource management).
As I've said before, THIS DOES NOT APPLY TO EVERY HEALER THAT IS NOT A TEMPLAR, THERE ARE BAD TEMPLAR HEALERS TOO. CLASS=/=PLAYER SKILL LEVEL
You act as though it's the rule......and not the exception.
Yoloswag420 forum guy does not represent a majority of the playing community.
You act as though it's the rule......and not the exception.
Yoloswag420 random normal pug guy does not represent a majority of the playing community2
This discussion has been closed.