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Stamina version of necropotence?
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supaskrub✭✭✭✭✭LegendaryMage wrote: »LegendaryMage wrote: »Necro needs a nerf anyway
So because something that to be effective needs two slots taking up for a pet, then dead slots for either bound aegis or inner light or even both as i have seen on occasion which only real benefit is to give big shields as it also requires a constant uptime of pet and deadric prey to come even close to being a right up there DPS monster build, mess up on deadric prey or the pet and the build is dps garbage except for survivability which is dependant on the shields.
Maybe theres something wrong with how i play but i get more reliable and constantly higher dps on my magsorc, not running necro and not tieing slots up running a dumb pet, sure its easy mode stuff necro + pet but its definatly not a insta-win dps/crit/sustain beast if you want to put out huge damage numbers.
So rather than calling for a nerf to an "easy mode" niche gear set why not take a look at what could well be the real issue (and by the way I'm not suggesting a nerf) which is the shield scaling from max magicka pool.
You don't need pets to get necro's last bonus. Shadowrend will totally do, at least for PVP. If you're a mag nb then you got shade, which is pretty much mandatory anyway.
I know how it works (i use shade on my NB). the issue is not the gear set its the fact that the max magicka which necro gives buffs damage shields immensly as these scale with magicka and it is particularly evident on one class that runs the build, so rather than join the "nerf sorcs" brigade people look for another option to cry nerf..
Yes, however since re-designing the whole game and making damage output, healing output, shielding output work differently (which does need re-doing anyway but will probably take too long and break many other things along the way), it's just easier to balance a single set and effectively cut off a whole array of builds that are making players go to the forums and ask for sorc nerfs, nb nerfs, this and that, you know how it goes.
On the issue of necropotence, I really think that most people who ask for nerfs probably ran into someone who was stacking something a bit too high, took them out without them being able to deal with it and then they're under the impression that somehow the class is totally unbalanced, all the while it was simply a set that's over-performing compared to most other sets, and thanks to the way that game mechanics are nowadays (even ball of lightning counts as a pet, which is really messed up).
I can't argue with anything you say just then, you are absolutly correct in all you say and its the exact way i think, the class in question would need a total rework and that is not going to happen just because of one gear set, so where do we go from here, there are three choices either remove the gear set (drastic) or rework 2/3/4 piece bonuses which are all max magicka and right there you will hit a real problem what to replace them with?...max recovery, spell crit or spell damage (then we get border line OP as changing just one of the bonuses will effect virtually nothing regarding the shields except give more damage output)?.. or finaly leave 2/3/4 as they are and rework the 5pc.. how much of the 4k magicka do we take off (which is pretty irrelevant as it will still be a +50k magicka pool and closer to 55k actually next major patch?.. or do we remove it all and replace it with max recovery, spell crit or spell damage?.. its a hard one to call and im certainly glad i would not be in a position to make it as the toxicity would be real.0 -
Bladerunner1✭✭✭✭But why focus on stacking stamina? Weapon damage tends to be more impactful these days, it synergizes with medium armor and fighters guild, and buffs light and heavy attacks a lot more than stamina.0 -
Danksta✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭IcyDeadPeople wrote: »First we would need a stamina pet...
Shade works for stamblades and stam wardens have their netch thing.BawKinTackWarDs PS4/NA0 -
Caligamy_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭So reduce the max resources gained on all sets in Cryodil, there.. all problems solved.
love is love2 -
KeiruNicrom✭✭✭✭✭QuebraRegra wrote: »
2k > 3k and needing a drink buff means loss of max stam food. Seems counterproductive.
Dragur Hulk would be a better choice, but still not comparable to necro.
You can use camorans throne or bergamas waning fire. Both drinks and give max stam0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭LegendaryMage wrote: »Necro needs a nerf anyway
So because something that to be effective needs two slots taking up for a pet, then dead slots for either bound aegis or inner light or even both as i have seen on occasion which only real benefit is to give big shields as it also requires a constant uptime of pet and deadric prey to come even close to being a right up there DPS monster build, mess up on deadric prey or the pet and the build is dps garbage except for survivability which is dependant on the shields.
Maybe theres something wrong with how i play but i get more reliable and constantly higher dps on my magsorc, not running necro and not tieing slots up running a dumb pet, sure its easy mode stuff necro + pet but its definatly not a insta-win dps/crit/sustain beast if you want to put out huge damage numbers.
So rather than calling for a nerf to an "easy mode" niche gear set why not take a look at what could well be the real issue (and by the way I'm not suggesting a nerf) which is the shield scaling from max magicka pool.
You don't need pets to get necro's last bonus. Shadowrend will totally do, at least for PVP. If you're a mag nb then you got shade, which is pretty much mandatory anyway.
Shades are not manditory. Let's keep this kinda sorta in the realm of real.0 -
LegendaryMage✭✭✭✭✭
✭LegendaryMage wrote: »LegendaryMage wrote: »Necro needs a nerf anyway
So because something that to be effective needs two slots taking up for a pet, then dead slots for either bound aegis or inner light or even both as i have seen on occasion which only real benefit is to give big shields as it also requires a constant uptime of pet and deadric prey to come even close to being a right up there DPS monster build, mess up on deadric prey or the pet and the build is dps garbage except for survivability which is dependant on the shields.
Maybe theres something wrong with how i play but i get more reliable and constantly higher dps on my magsorc, not running necro and not tieing slots up running a dumb pet, sure its easy mode stuff necro + pet but its definatly not a insta-win dps/crit/sustain beast if you want to put out huge damage numbers.
So rather than calling for a nerf to an "easy mode" niche gear set why not take a look at what could well be the real issue (and by the way I'm not suggesting a nerf) which is the shield scaling from max magicka pool.
You don't need pets to get necro's last bonus. Shadowrend will totally do, at least for PVP. If you're a mag nb then you got shade, which is pretty much mandatory anyway.
I know how it works (i use shade on my NB). the issue is not the gear set its the fact that the max magicka which necro gives buffs damage shields immensly as these scale with magicka and it is particularly evident on one class that runs the build, so rather than join the "nerf sorcs" brigade people look for another option to cry nerf..
Yes, however since re-designing the whole game and making damage output, healing output, shielding output work differently (which does need re-doing anyway but will probably take too long and break many other things along the way), it's just easier to balance a single set and effectively cut off a whole array of builds that are making players go to the forums and ask for sorc nerfs, nb nerfs, this and that, you know how it goes.
On the issue of necropotence, I really think that most people who ask for nerfs probably ran into someone who was stacking something a bit too high, took them out without them being able to deal with it and then they're under the impression that somehow the class is totally unbalanced, all the while it was simply a set that's over-performing compared to most other sets, and thanks to the way that game mechanics are nowadays (even ball of lightning counts as a pet, which is really messed up).
I can't argue with anything you say just then, you are absolutly correct in all you say and its the exact way i think, the class in question would need a total rework and that is not going to happen just because of one gear set, so where do we go from here, there are three choices either remove the gear set (drastic) or rework 2/3/4 piece bonuses which are all max magicka and right there you will hit a real problem what to replace them with?...max recovery, spell crit or spell damage (then we get border line OP as changing just one of the bonuses will effect virtually nothing regarding the shields except give more damage output)?.. or finaly leave 2/3/4 as they are and rework the 5pc.. how much of the 4k magicka do we take off (which is pretty irrelevant as it will still be a +50k magicka pool and closer to 55k actually next major patch?.. or do we remove it all and replace it with max recovery, spell crit or spell damage?.. its a hard one to call and im certainly glad i would not be in a position to make it as the toxicity would be real.
The most fun and potentially rewarding (for all sides) change would be to simply re-do the set and make it do what it was supposed to do all along, empower pet builds.
Diversifying first bonuses and re-working the last one to not have anything to do with max magicka (as we have already seen, the way that things scale in this game doesn't really promote balance in this way) and simply add in a benefit for pets themselves.
This is just an example, but let's say, when you have a pet active, something cool happens with your pets or they gain additional benefits of any kind, whatever really. This would then promote pet builds (which is what a lot of people complained about over the years as well) and make them more interesting (the pets themselves could use a re-work too).
So in the end, you'd have a whole new crowd of happy summoners (preferably balanced), a bunch of OP lazy builds taken out of the equation and a bunch of other players actually stop complaining about anything in regards to this. Sounds like a win-win to me.
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supaskrub✭✭✭✭✭Bladerunner1 wrote: »But why focus on stacking stamina? Weapon damage tends to be more impactful these days, it synergizes with medium armor and fighters guild, and buffs light and heavy attacks a lot more than stamina.
I have not done the maths nor made the build (so this is not verified by me) but i seem to recall when Morrowind was about to drop being told that around 45k stamina on a redguard stam warden would be possible by using both Draugr and Bone pirate, considering stam warden has some stamina morphs on damage abilities (cutting dive spammable and subteranean assault) then i would say that could be a pretty big impact from the perspective that both weapon damage and cutting dive scale to max stamina.0 -
MehrunesFlagon✭✭✭✭✭
✭puffytheslayer wrote: »yes there are 2, and you dont have to use dumb pets to benefit!
That dumb scamps does pretty good damge.0 -
Alpheu5✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭IcyDeadPeople wrote: »First we would need a stamina pet...
Seeing someone summon a burly ogre with the vitality of a Twilight would be hilarious.Dalek-Rok - Argonian Sorcerer || Dalek-Shād - Argonian Nightblade || Dalek-Shul - Argonian Templar || Dalek-Xal - Argonian Dragonknight || Mounts-the-Snout - Argonian Warden || Dalek-Xul - Argonian Necromancer || Two-Spires - Argonian Arcanist || Dalek-Nesh - Argonian Sorcerer || Dalek-Kör - Argonian DragonknightJudas Helviaryn wrote: »Don't incorporate bugs into your builds, and you won't have [an] issue.1 -
SodanTok✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Bladerunner1 wrote: »But why focus on stacking stamina? Weapon damage tends to be more impactful these days, it synergizes with medium armor and fighters guild, and buffs light and heavy attacks a lot more than stamina.
Sure, focus on stacking weapon damage. But where is set for that? Medium armor sets are behind heavy armor sets at raw weapon damage and those heavy are usually proc related. There are only few sets that have 2 wep damage bonuses and none that has 3 let alone 4. It will be very interesting to see what becomes meta after the proc set vacuum and if it is not some heavy armor like ravager or some hidden underfed procset.
There are 12 sets that have 2 wep damage bonuses, 9 of them have it on 5th piece.
Six of those 12 are medium armor. One is craftable. Only one set applies the weapon damage to at least 90% of your damage with 100% uptime and that is Automaton. Sword singer is possibly close. Both of those are worse than Necro is for most magicka users.
It is obviously based on balance so no complaining for me that I get treated worse or anything, but it just feels stupid how weaker the stats sets are over necro.
//EDIT:
FYI while wep damage synergizes better than stat on stam builds it is not by too much. Redguard in CP is running with 32% boost to stamina and (with agility, major brutality and one fighter guild skill) 35% boost to wep damageEdited by SodanTok on August 2, 2017 7:30PM0 -
Kanar✭✭✭✭✭
✭Magicka has more useful sets available, both crafted and dropped. Magicka has more useful food/drink available. Magicka has (way) more class skills available.
Instead of arguing against these facts, magicka users should be arguing for more stamina options along with the stam players. Otherwise disgruntled stam users will continue to flood the forums with complaints.1 -
PlautisCarvain✭✭✭✭MehrunesFlagon wrote: »puffytheslayer wrote: »yes there are 2, and you dont have to use dumb pets to benefit!
That dumb scamps does pretty good damge.
Using him in PVP. Very useful to kill people since they focus on me, instead of on him. Pet is way better than sorcs with Mage light, you loose 2 slots, yes, but he do damage and you still can have all necessary skills slotted0 -
supaskrub✭✭✭✭✭MehrunesFlagon wrote: »puffytheslayer wrote: »yes there are 2, and you dont have to use dumb pets to benefit!
That dumb scamps does pretty good damge.
It does pretty good damage if you have it where you want it, have a 100% uptime on both pet pulse and deadric prey (thats 3 slots taken up, 4 if solo as you need surge to heal it as well as yourself), if you just have it running around slapping npcs without pulse and prey then its pretty mediocre considering it requires 4 slots when solo or its a 2 second reload every time you bar swap if you keep it on just one bar.1 -
PlautisCarvain✭✭✭✭MehrunesFlagon wrote: »puffytheslayer wrote: »yes there are 2, and you dont have to use dumb pets to benefit!
That dumb scamps does pretty good damge.
It does pretty good damage if you have it where you want it, have a 100% uptime on both pet pulse and deadric prey (thats 3 slots taken up, 4 if solo as you need surge to heal it as well as yourself), if you just have it running around slapping npcs without pulse and prey then its pretty mediocre considering it requires 4 slots when solo or its a 2 second reload every time you bar swap if you keep it on just one bar.
You are not obligated to use the Twilight Matriarch. I don't use the matiarch and it goes perfectly. Pet build doesn't mean zoo xd0 -
supaskrub✭✭✭✭✭PlautisCarvain wrote: »MehrunesFlagon wrote: »puffytheslayer wrote: »yes there are 2, and you dont have to use dumb pets to benefit!
That dumb scamps does pretty good damge.
It does pretty good damage if you have it where you want it, have a 100% uptime on both pet pulse and deadric prey (thats 3 slots taken up, 4 if solo as you need surge to heal it as well as yourself), if you just have it running around slapping npcs without pulse and prey then its pretty mediocre considering it requires 4 slots when solo or its a 2 second reload every time you bar swap if you keep it on just one bar.
You are not obligated to use the Twilight Matriarch. I don't use the matiarch and it goes perfectly. Pet build doesn't mean zoo xd
The 4 slots is without the twilight, to get the best out of scamp when solo you need 1 slot on front and back bar for scamp (obviously) then 1 slot for deadric prey and then another slot for surge so you can heal both it and yourself, in a group you can drop surge if you trust your healer so you only need 3 slots.1 -
PlautisCarvain✭✭✭✭PlautisCarvain wrote: »MehrunesFlagon wrote: »puffytheslayer wrote: »yes there are 2, and you dont have to use dumb pets to benefit!
That dumb scamps does pretty good damge.
It does pretty good damage if you have it where you want it, have a 100% uptime on both pet pulse and deadric prey (thats 3 slots taken up, 4 if solo as you need surge to heal it as well as yourself), if you just have it running around slapping npcs without pulse and prey then its pretty mediocre considering it requires 4 slots when solo or its a 2 second reload every time you bar swap if you keep it on just one bar.
You are not obligated to use the Twilight Matriarch. I don't use the matiarch and it goes perfectly. Pet build doesn't mean zoo xd
The 4 slots is without the twilight, to get the best out of scamp when solo you need 1 slot on front and back bar for scamp (obviously) then 1 slot for deadric prey and then another slot for surge so you can heal both it and yourself, in a group you can drop surge if you trust your healer so you only need 3 slots.
Yes like other sorcerer?0 -
Bladerunner1✭✭✭✭Bladerunner1 wrote: »But why focus on stacking stamina? Weapon damage tends to be more impactful these days, it synergizes with medium armor and fighters guild, and buffs light and heavy attacks a lot more than stamina.
Sure, focus on stacking weapon damage. But where is set for that? Medium armor sets are behind heavy armor sets at raw weapon damage and those heavy are usually proc related. There are only few sets that have 2 wep damage bonuses and none that has 3 let alone 4. It will be very interesting to see what becomes meta after the proc set vacuum and if it is not some heavy armor like ravager or some hidden underfed procset.
There are 12 sets that have 2 wep damage bonuses, 9 of them have it on 5th piece.
Six of those 12 are medium armor. One is craftable. Only one set applies the weapon damage to at least 90% of your damage with 100% uptime and that is Automaton. Sword singer is possibly close. Both of those are worse than Necro is for most magicka users.
It is obviously based on balance so no complaining for me that I get treated worse or anything, but it just feels stupid how weaker the stats sets are over necro.
//EDIT:
FYI while wep damage synergizes better than stat on stam builds it is not by too much. Redguard in CP is running with 32% boost to stamina and (with agility, major brutality and one fighter guild skill) 35% boost to wep damage
It's just my novice opinion, but I always thought it was weird that magicka classes focus so heavily on piling up 50k magicka and leaving spell damage down around 2500ish when they rely so heavily on heavy staff attacks as part of their rotation.
As a comparison, take a look at 2H build with ravager (weapon+jewelry+1 piece heavy armor) and Hundings vs Bone Pirates and Draugr Hulk.
When you're surrounded by mobs, ravager procs like crazy, you can get 70% uptime. Each light attack with the weapon damage build deals 40,000 distributed damage because of the 2H forceful passive.
If Draugr and Bone pirate are equipped, now the light attacks deal something like 30,000 distributed damage. The skill damage alone with a max stam setup is also a bit worse than the weapon damage setup, especially in this scenario with 70% ravager uptime. Perhaps skills would deal more damage with a Redguard Warden Stamina beast, but the average damage (skills + light attacks) would need to be considered because light attacks account for 15-25% of the damage.0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Magicka has more useful sets available, both crafted and dropped. Magicka has more useful food/drink available. Magicka has (way) more class skills available.
Instead of arguing against these facts, magicka users should be arguing for more stamina options along with the stam players. Otherwise disgruntled stam users will continue to flood the forums with complaints.
@Kanar
Outside of necro which has the biggest requirement in the game to make the set useful, what are the sets that are these sets you speak of. That are actually good sets?
Your statement on magicka having more useful food and drink, again. Please enlighten me. Especially since it seems there is a stam version for every magicka version of food and drink.
I have no issue with a stam version of necro but it's gonna have the same requirement of the magicka version.2 -
Runschei✭✭✭✭✭
✭Just thought I'd drop in this while we're at the stam vs mag subject. https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/344207/87-of-class-skills-are-magicka-131-vs-stamina-19-is-this-balanced/p10 -
SodanTok✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Bladerunner1 wrote: »Bladerunner1 wrote: »But why focus on stacking stamina? Weapon damage tends to be more impactful these days, it synergizes with medium armor and fighters guild, and buffs light and heavy attacks a lot more than stamina.
Sure, focus on stacking weapon damage. But where is set for that? Medium armor sets are behind heavy armor sets at raw weapon damage and those heavy are usually proc related. There are only few sets that have 2 wep damage bonuses and none that has 3 let alone 4. It will be very interesting to see what becomes meta after the proc set vacuum and if it is not some heavy armor like ravager or some hidden underfed procset.
There are 12 sets that have 2 wep damage bonuses, 9 of them have it on 5th piece.
Six of those 12 are medium armor. One is craftable. Only one set applies the weapon damage to at least 90% of your damage with 100% uptime and that is Automaton. Sword singer is possibly close. Both of those are worse than Necro is for most magicka users.
It is obviously based on balance so no complaining for me that I get treated worse or anything, but it just feels stupid how weaker the stats sets are over necro.
//EDIT:
FYI while wep damage synergizes better than stat on stam builds it is not by too much. Redguard in CP is running with 32% boost to stamina and (with agility, major brutality and one fighter guild skill) 35% boost to wep damage
It's just my novice opinion, but I always thought it was weird that magicka classes focus so heavily on piling up 50k magicka and leaving spell damage down around 2500ish when they rely so heavily on heavy staff attacks as part of their rotation.
As a comparison, take a look at 2H build with ravager (weapon+jewelry+1 piece heavy armor) and Hundings vs Bone Pirates and Draugr Hulk.
When you're surrounded by mobs, ravager procs like crazy, you can get 70% uptime. Each light attack with the weapon damage build deals 40,000 distributed damage because of the 2H forceful passive.
If Draugr and Bone pirate are equipped, now the light attacks deal something like 30,000 distributed damage. The skill damage alone with a max stam setup is also a bit worse than the weapon damage setup, especially in this scenario with 70% ravager uptime. Perhaps skills would deal more damage with a Redguard Warden Stamina beast, but the average damage (skills + light attacks) would need to be considered because light attacks account for 15-25% of the damage.
They arent stacking 50k magicka when they build for heavy attack damage in PVE (I presume) and in PVP you arent building around light attack damage. You get both defense and offense from stacking max magicka plus you have access to to stuff that increases your max magicka even more, so it is pretty obvious route to take. Really the only thing you dont get on magicka build stacking max magicka is the light/heavy attack damage
//edit:
Not to mention it is difficult to stack spell damage. More difficult than stack weapon damage and from personal experience that is already pretty difficult if you use bow (which has same limitations as staves and the only thing it gets is 12% agility bonus and some pocket % from fighters guild passive) You are looking at 3k spell damage on magicka build with staff that goes the spell damage route instead of magicka. Zero of these 500 more goes to shields and neither to two popular healing types (surge and healing ward)Edited by SodanTok on August 2, 2017 9:11PM0 -
Kanar✭✭✭✭✭
✭Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »Magicka has more useful sets available, both crafted and dropped. Magicka has more useful food/drink available. Magicka has (way) more class skills available.
Instead of arguing against these facts, magicka users should be arguing for more stamina options along with the stam players. Otherwise disgruntled stam users will continue to flood the forums with complaints.
@Kanar
Outside of necro which has the biggest requirement in the game to make the set useful, what are the sets that are these sets you speak of. That are actually good sets?
Your statement on magicka having more useful food and drink, again. Please enlighten me. Especially since it seems there is a stam version for every magicka version of food and drink.
I have no issue with a stam version of necro but it's gonna have the same requirement of the magicka version.
Regarding sets we can start with you showing me the stamina version of crafted sustain sets, armor of seducer and magnus. I'm not going to bother getting into the number of magicka vs stamina drop sets. Maybe later if I find nothing better to do.
Dubious camoran throne vs witchmothers potent brew: how about you trade me a DCT recipe and I will give you a witchmothers recipe?Sound like a fair trade to you? Keep in mind jester event just ended a few months ago, whereas witch fest was 10 months ago. Where is the stamina version of ghastly eye bowl DRINK?
The link regarding class skills already posted may be quite illuminating to you as well (if you ever played stamina the imbalance would be obvious to you).0 -
Zvorgin✭✭✭✭✭PlautisCarvain wrote: »DurzoBlint13 wrote: »Hulking Drugar....... comes from Direfrost Keep.
also, all of the bonuses (2pc, 3pc, 4pc, 5pc) give Stam for a total of more than 5K.....will be even more than that with the next update but do not know the exact numbers. right now it gives 967+967+967+2500= 5401
And necropotence over 7k...
Are you required to double bar a skill for Hulking Draugr?0 -
Emma_Overload✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭PlautisCarvain wrote: »Damn, poor stamina user... That's not cool that Magicka always have the advantage over stamina!
Magicka does not have an advantage. Draugr Hulk + Bound Aegis gives more stamina than Necropotence + Pet gives magicka, even though both take up 5 pieces of armor and 2 bar slots.#CAREBEARMASTERRACE3 -
PlautisCarvain✭✭✭✭Emma_Overload wrote: »PlautisCarvain wrote: »Damn, poor stamina user... That's not cool that Magicka always have the advantage over stamina!
Magicka does not have an advantage. Draugr Hulk + Bound Aegis gives more stamina than Necropotence + Pet gives magicka, even though both take up 5 pieces of armor and 2 bar slots.
Never noticed that! Thank you for that answer, but what about DKs and NB?0 -
SodanTok✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
That is like completely false. (necro gives 25% more resources than draugr; 5th piece 52% more than draugr 5th, I dont know where you take those numbers)Emma_Overload wrote: »PlautisCarvain wrote: »Damn, poor stamina user... That's not cool that Magicka always have the advantage over stamina!
Magicka does not have an advantage. Draugr Hulk + Bound Aegis gives more stamina than Necropotence + Pet gives magicka, even though both take up 5 pieces of armor and 2 bar slots.
Not to mention not everything revolves around sorc.
@PlautisCarvainEdited by SodanTok on August 2, 2017 10:16PM0 -
Bladerunner1✭✭✭✭Bladerunner1 wrote: »Bladerunner1 wrote: »But why focus on stacking stamina? Weapon damage tends to be more impactful these days, it synergizes with medium armor and fighters guild, and buffs light and heavy attacks a lot more than stamina.
Sure, focus on stacking weapon damage. But where is set for that? Medium armor sets are behind heavy armor sets at raw weapon damage and those heavy are usually proc related. There are only few sets that have 2 wep damage bonuses and none that has 3 let alone 4. It will be very interesting to see what becomes meta after the proc set vacuum and if it is not some heavy armor like ravager or some hidden underfed procset.
There are 12 sets that have 2 wep damage bonuses, 9 of them have it on 5th piece.
Six of those 12 are medium armor. One is craftable. Only one set applies the weapon damage to at least 90% of your damage with 100% uptime and that is Automaton. Sword singer is possibly close. Both of those are worse than Necro is for most magicka users.
It is obviously based on balance so no complaining for me that I get treated worse or anything, but it just feels stupid how weaker the stats sets are over necro.
//EDIT:
FYI while wep damage synergizes better than stat on stam builds it is not by too much. Redguard in CP is running with 32% boost to stamina and (with agility, major brutality and one fighter guild skill) 35% boost to wep damage
It's just my novice opinion, but I always thought it was weird that magicka classes focus so heavily on piling up 50k magicka and leaving spell damage down around 2500ish when they rely so heavily on heavy staff attacks as part of their rotation.
As a comparison, take a look at 2H build with ravager (weapon+jewelry+1 piece heavy armor) and Hundings vs Bone Pirates and Draugr Hulk.
When you're surrounded by mobs, ravager procs like crazy, you can get 70% uptime. Each light attack with the weapon damage build deals 40,000 distributed damage because of the 2H forceful passive.
If Draugr and Bone pirate are equipped, now the light attacks deal something like 30,000 distributed damage. The skill damage alone with a max stam setup is also a bit worse than the weapon damage setup, especially in this scenario with 70% ravager uptime. Perhaps skills would deal more damage with a Redguard Warden Stamina beast, but the average damage (skills + light attacks) would need to be considered because light attacks account for 15-25% of the damage.
They arent stacking 50k magicka when they build for heavy attack damage in PVE (I presume) and in PVP you arent building around light attack damage. You get both defense and offense from stacking max magicka plus you have access to to stuff that increases your max magicka even more, so it is pretty obvious route to take. Really the only thing you dont get on magicka build stacking max magicka is the light/heavy attack damage
//edit:
Not to mention it is difficult to stack spell damage. More difficult than stack weapon damage and from personal experience that is already pretty difficult if you use bow (which has same limitations as staves and the only thing it gets is 12% agility bonus and some pocket % from fighters guild passive) You are looking at 3k spell damage on magicka build with staff that goes the spell damage route instead of magicka. Zero of these 500 more goes to shields and neither to two popular healing types (surge and healing ward)
It seemed like the magicka was maxed out in a lot of the heavy attack PVE DPS parses I've seen. Take a look here, one of the entries shows screenshots of magicka DPS comparison between 4 classes:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4313497#Comment_4313497
Spell damage was only 2680 and the magicka was 45000, yet the combined lightning HA+LA damage was 29%-35% of the total. I dunno the mechanics and entire reasoning behind it, but another X spell damage swapped in place of Y magicka should lift the DPS, shouldn't it? Spell damage should affect heavy attacks 40x more than magicka.0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Just thought I'd drop in this while we're at the stam vs mag subject. https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/344207/87-of-class-skills-are-magicka-131-vs-stamina-19-is-this-balanced/p1
@Runschei
That is really irrelevant. Especially since it looks at the skills in a skewed manner in an absurd manner.
Case in point, in counts skills regardless of if they are a buff or not. It counts both morphs when both morphs are magicka (a player can only have one morph).
To drive home the point I will use the DK as an example, I guess we can make the hardened armor, tank buff, green dragron blood, heals off % of missing health and a morph of Reflective scales to cost stam even though there is zero benefit to them costing stam and for a stam user a multitude of benefit for them costing magicka and not consume our precious stam.
Oh, I forgot, little use for chains costing stam and zero benefit for any morph of Molten weapons costing stam.
That is 5 skills right there and not giving it much thought to find them all. Much of which would screw tanks and reduce the benefit of having a DK tank a bit.
Really sad when players cannot figure out some simple basics when making comparisons like that. So much of what is counted is merely buffs or utilities such a roots. Maybe they should make one morph of everything cost stamina and while at it they can remove 2 of the 3 stam dps weapons and make one skill in the remaining weapon line a mere utility.
Just like in this thread, there is no magicka equivalent to Night Mothers Gaze or Sunderflame. As stated above, have no issue with a stam equivalent to Neco as long as the fifth bonus requires pets be active.
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LegendaryMage✭✭✭✭✭
✭Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »LegendaryMage wrote: »Necro needs a nerf anyway
So because something that to be effective needs two slots taking up for a pet, then dead slots for either bound aegis or inner light or even both as i have seen on occasion which only real benefit is to give big shields as it also requires a constant uptime of pet and deadric prey to come even close to being a right up there DPS monster build, mess up on deadric prey or the pet and the build is dps garbage except for survivability which is dependant on the shields.
Maybe theres something wrong with how i play but i get more reliable and constantly higher dps on my magsorc, not running necro and not tieing slots up running a dumb pet, sure its easy mode stuff necro + pet but its definatly not a insta-win dps/crit/sustain beast if you want to put out huge damage numbers.
So rather than calling for a nerf to an "easy mode" niche gear set why not take a look at what could well be the real issue (and by the way I'm not suggesting a nerf) which is the shield scaling from max magicka pool.
You don't need pets to get necro's last bonus. Shadowrend will totally do, at least for PVP. If you're a mag nb then you got shade, which is pretty much mandatory anyway.
Shades are not manditory. Let's keep this kinda sorta in the realm of real.
If you're a mag NB in PVP without the ranged morph of shade, you are missing out on a lot of things. As of now, shades can critically strike, they have a decent tooltip, they are indestructible, provide an awesome mobility option when re-used, provide the 5th bonus of necropotence which in turn strengthens your character immensely, and on top you get minor maim.
Ranged shade is one THE best skills in this game for PVP.Edited by LegendaryMage on August 2, 2017 10:41PM1 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »Magicka has more useful sets available, both crafted and dropped. Magicka has more useful food/drink available. Magicka has (way) more class skills available.
Instead of arguing against these facts, magicka users should be arguing for more stamina options along with the stam players. Otherwise disgruntled stam users will continue to flood the forums with complaints.
@Kanar
Outside of necro which has the biggest requirement in the game to make the set useful, what are the sets that are these sets you speak of. That are actually good sets?
Your statement on magicka having more useful food and drink, again. Please enlighten me. Especially since it seems there is a stam version for every magicka version of food and drink.
I have no issue with a stam version of necro but it's gonna have the same requirement of the magicka version.
Regarding sets we can start with you showing me the stamina version of crafted sustain sets, armor of seducer and magnus. I'm not going to bother getting into the number of magicka vs stamina drop sets. Maybe later if I find nothing better to do.
Dubious camoran throne vs witchmothers potent brew: how about you trade me a DCT recipe and I will give you a witchmothers recipe?Sound like a fair trade to you? Keep in mind jester event just ended a few months ago, whereas witch fest was 10 months ago. Where is the stamina version of ghastly eye bowl DRINK?
The link regarding class skills already posted may be quite illuminating to you as well (if you ever played stamina the imbalance would be obvious to you).
@Kanar LOL, I thought you were talking about somewhat serious sets at the least. I will leave someone else to talk about sets no one in their right mind would wear into a vet trial. Things like the magicka version of Night Mothers Gaze (crafted) or Sunderflame (dropped).
Food, Dubious Camoran Throne and Witchmother's Potent Brew are perfect. Stam and magicka versions respectively in every way. Really do not see what the issue is. I have both recipes on multiple characters. I do not see the relevance of when the respective events that had these ended. Both are in the game currently. Moot point.
Now, Ghastly Eye Bowl Drink is a different story. It is about as useful as Frosted brains. Junk recipie is all it is. So glad Zos did not clutter up the RNG pool with versions of either of those. Neither have max health so neither are useful in any way. Just something that would be used by someone who does not know better. Nice try though.
Again, as I posted in the reply above, that comparison is really, really bad and it would be absurd for anyone to want every single class skill to have a stam morph. Really, truly absurd. Yea, there are some skills that could have a stam morph, but would really have to changed into something that seemed to fit properly. For the rest, read above.
Nice try.1