Wardens suck..( pve and pvp )

Waffennacht · July 2017

DeHei wrote: »

My Magden isnt high enough to test DPS in PvE. So i dont know what is possible.

But i know that Magden are really strong in PvP. If right played it should impossible to kill a good played Magden solo!

Shhh. But mathematically speaking...

Because of Trellis...

A permablocker Warden than Can reduce incoming damage completely to zero (including Oblivion Damage glyphs) is possible

...

Potentially 98% block cost reduction
Potentially turning 14k damage (28k tooltip) to zero...

It can exist...shhhhh

Tryxus · July 2017

L2Warden nubs

SanTii.92 · July 2017

Which server you play in @Ihatenightblades

paulsimonps · July 2017

Waffennacht wrote: »

DeHei wrote: »

My Magden isnt high enough to test DPS in PvE. So i dont know what is possible.

But i know that Magden are really strong in PvP. If right played it should impossible to kill a good played Magden solo!

Shhh. But mathematically speaking...

Because of Trellis...

A permablocker Warden than Can reduce incoming damage completely to zero (including Oblivion Damage glyphs) is possible

...

Potentially 98% block cost reduction
Potentially turning 14k damage (28k tooltip) to zero...

It can exist...shhhhh

@Waffennacht Wait what? Block cost reduction=/=mitigation/damage reduction. Also its impossible to take 0 damage unless, or well I guess if the base is low enough it might round it down if you have like super high mitigation, but that type of mitigation is not gonna be able to be sustain for very long on your own.

Waffennacht · July 2017

paulsimonps wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

DeHei wrote: »

My Magden isnt high enough to test DPS in PvE. So i dont know what is possible.

But i know that Magden are really strong in PvP. If right played it should impossible to kill a good played Magden solo!

Shhh. But mathematically speaking...

Because of Trellis...

A permablocker Warden than Can reduce incoming damage completely to zero (including Oblivion Damage glyphs) is possible

...

Potentially 98% block cost reduction
Potentially turning 14k damage (28k tooltip) to zero...

It can exist...shhhhh

@Waffennacht Wait what? Block cost reduction=/=mitigation/damage reduction. Also its impossible to take 0 damage unless, or well I guess if the base is low enough it might round it down if you have like super high mitigation, but that type of mitigation is not gonna be able to be sustain for very long on your own.

@paulsimonps

Hey it's you! Awesome

No what I mean is the ability Living Trellis (the heal when hit ability) can easily be 1.5k - 2k heal per hit.

With 80% damage reduction from block + 1.5k heal on hit = a 20k tooltip becomes 0 damage after resistance and Trellis in PvP

Because Trellis doesn't reduce damage, it's effectiveness increases as mitigation increases!

- at the cost of potentially 3% of the initial block cost (I wouldn't put THAT much into block cost reduction, but you can

)

Chufu · July 2017

Tryxus wrote: »

L2Warden nubs

Where is your DPS-Screen, please?

paulsimonps · July 2017

Waffennacht wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

DeHei wrote: »

My Magden isnt high enough to test DPS in PvE. So i dont know what is possible.

But i know that Magden are really strong in PvP. If right played it should impossible to kill a good played Magden solo!

Shhh. But mathematically speaking...

Because of Trellis...

A permablocker Warden than Can reduce incoming damage completely to zero (including Oblivion Damage glyphs) is possible

...

Potentially 98% block cost reduction
Potentially turning 14k damage (28k tooltip) to zero...

It can exist...shhhhh

@Waffennacht Wait what? Block cost reduction=/=mitigation/damage reduction. Also its impossible to take 0 damage unless, or well I guess if the base is low enough it might round it down if you have like super high mitigation, but that type of mitigation is not gonna be able to be sustain for very long on your own.

@paulsimonps

Hey it's you! Awesome

No what I mean is the ability Living Trellis (the heal when hit ability) can easily be 1.5k - 2k heal per hit.

With 80% damage reduction from block + 1.5k heal on hit = a 20k tooltip becomes 0 damage after resistance and Trellis in PvP

Because Trellis doesn't reduce damage, it's effectiveness increases as mitigation increases!

- at the cost of potentially 3% of the initial block cost (I wouldn't put THAT much into block cost reduction, but you can )

Ah, I get you, yea you can very much so make a build that can get high mitigation and high self heal, and with that effectively become near immortal. Obviously the more people hit you the more you need to be able to self heal to sustain but build right and you can survive a lot, until you get feared

Raeph · July 2017

Drdeath20 wrote: »

Its hard to follow this conversation, when people keep flipping between a pve argument to a pvp argument.

Gotta love ESO forums, where someone will make an argument for why something isn't good in PvE, then a PvPer will come along and say they are wrong because it works in PvP.

Lol, wut?

CyrusArya · July 2017

If you're trying to be a solo hero, then ya wardens underperform a bit. But that isn't the point or design philosophy of the class. If you wanna solo well then play a different class. What wardens lack in that department, they more than compensate with in their group and support value. I've wiped entire guilds of 20+ people with 6 thanks to the raw power that a warden or 2 can bring to the group with their off heals, buffs, and sleet storms.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · July 2017

From a PVP standpoint, the only thing wrong with wardens is the Kill Quest. Their utility is off the charts. Maybe not the playstyle you are after, but wardens are very effective in Cyro if you play to their strengths.

josiahva · July 2017

paulsimonps wrote: »

josiahva wrote: »

Add more ice damage abilities, and for gods sake, get rid of the stupid clunky delayed cast abilities, new damage abilities all around focusing on cold damage. Until they do that...don't expect the warden to ever put out any magicka DPS. Even on the support front they are inferior...Gate<Chains Shrooms<BoL etc etc etc. It seems they focused on animations at the expense of gameplay with the class. Every single ability is clunky because of it...animation canceling required for very mediocre DPS/heals/support abilities.

paulsimonps wrote: »

This thread is funny. While yes their PvE DPS is lacking. They are not lacking in the roles of PvE Healer or Tank. And I don't know what you are talking about in regards to them being bad in PvP. They rock. They get lots of utility and undodgable spamable. Oh, and you can only block for so long unless you are a tank so good luck getting sustained down to hell, especially if they combo that with resource poisons. And they got good burst with the shalks, if they line it up well. And while not used too often, the Frozen Gate can be devastating in seige fights. Its range is devastating, pull em out one by one and watch them get nuked.

The are sub-par for either heals or tanking. DK has better tanking skills(chains will TARGET, not lay an AOE trap that takes twice as long) not to mention DK has a root, with warden you are relying on an ice staff for that, IF it applies that status effect. Templar has better healing skills...the Warden ONLY brings buffs to the table...at a cost.

Templars and Wardens are very close in terms of healing abilities, the big difference is the purge and shards of the Templar, while Warden has Buffs for sustain and protection. And also while yes the wardens teleport is slower than chains, its only really needed in a few fights in Trials since most things are CC immune, this makes it a small different at best. Also with the root the only different with the Grippling Shards and Choking Talons is that one gives Minor maim all the time and the other only has a small chance, but in terms of root, both has the same AoE Range and Max target limit and both Root immediately, not sure why you think Wardens need a Ice staff for that, or did you miss that one big skill?

A Warden is amazing off tank and while some still like 2 Templar healers in Trials others really like the 1 templar 1 warden combo for the team synergy it gives. They are not bad.

I somehow did miss gripping shards...I chose winter's revenge as my morph for some reason. Now I need to re-morph and try warden again...that will help a LOT. I wasn't referring to gate in regards to trials, but regular old vet dungeons(as an example blackheart haven) when I tanked it as a warden I spent literally almost the ENTIRE time setting gates, very little time to spam off heals or even keep everything taunted

Absolut_Turkey · July 2017

Remember when people where crying that Warden was gonna be OP before it came out?

paulsimonps · July 2017

josiahva wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

josiahva wrote: »

Add more ice damage abilities, and for gods sake, get rid of the stupid clunky delayed cast abilities, new damage abilities all around focusing on cold damage. Until they do that...don't expect the warden to ever put out any magicka DPS. Even on the support front they are inferior...Gate<Chains Shrooms<BoL etc etc etc. It seems they focused on animations at the expense of gameplay with the class. Every single ability is clunky because of it...animation canceling required for very mediocre DPS/heals/support abilities.

paulsimonps wrote: »

This thread is funny. While yes their PvE DPS is lacking. They are not lacking in the roles of PvE Healer or Tank. And I don't know what you are talking about in regards to them being bad in PvP. They rock. They get lots of utility and undodgable spamable. Oh, and you can only block for so long unless you are a tank so good luck getting sustained down to hell, especially if they combo that with resource poisons. And they got good burst with the shalks, if they line it up well. And while not used too often, the Frozen Gate can be devastating in seige fights. Its range is devastating, pull em out one by one and watch them get nuked.

The are sub-par for either heals or tanking. DK has better tanking skills(chains will TARGET, not lay an AOE trap that takes twice as long) not to mention DK has a root, with warden you are relying on an ice staff for that, IF it applies that status effect. Templar has better healing skills...the Warden ONLY brings buffs to the table...at a cost.

Templars and Wardens are very close in terms of healing abilities, the big difference is the purge and shards of the Templar, while Warden has Buffs for sustain and protection. And also while yes the wardens teleport is slower than chains, its only really needed in a few fights in Trials since most things are CC immune, this makes it a small different at best. Also with the root the only different with the Grippling Shards and Choking Talons is that one gives Minor maim all the time and the other only has a small chance, but in terms of root, both has the same AoE Range and Max target limit and both Root immediately, not sure why you think Wardens need a Ice staff for that, or did you miss that one big skill?

A Warden is amazing off tank and while some still like 2 Templar healers in Trials others really like the 1 templar 1 warden combo for the team synergy it gives. They are not bad.

I somehow did miss gripping shards...I chose winter's revenge as my morph for some reason. Now I need to re-morph and try warden again...that will help a LOT. I wasn't referring to gate in regards to trials, but regular old vet dungeons(as an example blackheart haven) when I tanked it as a warden I spent literally almost the ENTIRE time setting gates, very little time to spam off heals or even keep everything taunted

Try taunting and rooting the melees while you throw the gates, a lot easier to do that once you root everything first. Also remember to try your best to taunt the melees over to at least some of the ranged targets before starting to teleport them. And with the buff to Swarm Mother coming up you could go with that when doing Dungeons and swap it out during Trials. But again, its not all hard to teleport them though once things are first rooted, so give that a try.

Megabear · July 2017

These threads make me happy. My main is a Warden and I think he's kind of OP

Waffennacht · July 2017

Megabear wrote: »

These threads make me happy. My main is a Warden and I think he's kind of OP

I'm starting to see a build come to mind that I, personally, would consider "OP."

Stealing a bit from @Draqone and his Dancer guide and what I've learned from @paulsimonps

You can go, Light or Heavy armor, get up to (rounded for accuracy) 97% block cost reduction, at 1 player: 100% DMG mitigation, 2 player would be 80% mitigation of 20k actual PvP DMG dps (yes dps, or 40k tooltip DMG coming in per sec, you'll take 2k DMG - without considering any resistance - so actually less in PvP)

And as @Draqone uses Ebon set for tanking in his guide, we throw that away for PvP and add a dps set.

SOOO

We get sustain through alteration, adjust block cost reduction (because we don't need that much, say.... 75% so we can use all spell damage Glyphs) use any damage set (or Necro) in place of Ebon

Should sit at 2k + spell DMG, be able to mitigate everything (including OB Glyphs ty Trellis) have the sustain, penetration etc of Light Armor, the sustain of a perma blockers and can hit burst like a Mac truck - add a dash of Dampen Magic and Healing Thicket

You got yourself one mag Warden 1vXing OP machine

dodgehopper_ESO · August 2017

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

StormWylf wrote: »

Not sure it's connected, but every group I was in (yes I know anecdotal evidence is weak) someone would spam the raid to share the 'Kill 20 (Fill in the Blank) quest. But would always say"Not the Warden One". There were many many Wardens playing, I assumed it was due to a lack of Warden Deaths.

No, less wardens since they are so new and no everyone has access to them.

The Kill Wardens quest has also been bugged. I don't know if they fixed it because the bug was so bad I just haven't cared to try (and people say it is still bugged). The problem was you could kill a Warden in solo combat and not get credit for it. You could kill multiple Wardens and not get credit.

MLGProPlayer · August 2017

Can't speak for PvP, but for PvE, magicka warden is the worst DPS class we've ever seen. I'd rather have a hybrd DPS on the team than a magicka warden. That's how absolutely awful they are.

- Terrible but mandatory double bar ult (you do zero damage without it); the only reason to bring magicka DPS is for AOE damage, and warden can't even provide that because they're the only class that can't use destro ult

- The class has like 5 DPS abilities, of which the best one (winter's revenge) is bugged

- Has mediocre passives that barely boost damage

Vaoh · August 2017

PvP-wise, Wardens are not doing bad at all. I think they're pretty nice actually. Equal with other specs across the board.

PvE-wise, Tanks and Healers are good. Stamina Wardens are behind in DPS from any other class. Magicka Wardens are horrendously behind in DPS.

Simple as this.

All it takes is someone smart to fix this right now. Honestly it is not even difficult at all for 90% of the people who have played through HM vMoL/vHoF and fundamentally understand the game. These people are smarter than the Devs. At this point, I would genuinely be surprised if ZOS fixed this messy PvE DPS situation of the Warden class.

I expect nothing from ZOS anymore so I can be pleasantly surprised when they do attempt to get it right

MLGProPlayer · August 2017

Vaoh wrote: »

PvP-wise, Wardens are not doing bad at all. I think they're pretty nice actually. Equal with other specs across the board.

PvE-wise, Tanks and Healers are good. Stamina Wardens are behind in DPS from any other class. Magicka Wardens are horrendously behind in DPS.

Simple as this.

All it takes is someone smart to fix this right now. Honestly it is not even difficult at all for 90% of the people who have played through HM vMoL/vHoF and fundamentally understand the game. These people are smarter than the Devs. At this point, I would genuinely be surprised if ZOS fixed this messy PvE DPS situation of the Warden class.

I expect nothing from ZOS anymore so I can be pleasantly surprised when they do attempt to get it right

It's as if they don't even test the classes. That's the only possible reason why magicka warden is still in the state it is.

You'd think that since this is a class people paid money for, they'd go out of their way to fix them. But nope. They got our money. We're stuck with a broken class now.

OutLaw_Nynx · August 2017

I deleted my magWarden last night.

Inarre · August 2017

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

StormWylf wrote: »

Not sure it's connected, but every group I was in (yes I know anecdotal evidence is weak) someone would spam the raid to share the 'Kill 20 (Fill in the Blank) quest. But would always say"Not the Warden One". There were many many Wardens playing, I assumed it was due to a lack of Warden Deaths.

No, less wardens since they are so new and no everyone has access to them.

The Kill Wardens quest has also been bugged. I don't know if they fixed it because the bug was so bad I just haven't cared to try (and people say it is still bugged). The problem was you could kill a Warden in solo combat and not get credit for it. You could kill multiple Wardens and not get credit.

Wasnt fixed still as of Sunday

zzzz

hedna123b14_ESO · August 2017

I may just have to take my StamWarden into trials this week so that the people who think its bad in PvE can understand how wrong they are...

hedna123b14_ESO · August 2017

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Artis wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

• NBs are like Sorcs, except they put out a bit less AoE DPS. However, Magicka NBs provide nice offheals. NBs as a whole provide decent group utility, access to high Major Expedition uptime which can help with positioning, and easier sustain. They aren't really worth taking for Tanks, and make okay Healers.

NBs have lower DPS, true. But no, they don't provide decent group utility. Engulfing Flames is group utility. Chains is group utility. Shards is group utility. Liquid lightning is group utility. NBs have what? Minor Savagery? That's nothing compared to providing synergies for Alkosh, off-balance, and sustain.

And off heals? Are you talking about endgame? Because off heals would be ok if NBs ran FH+refreshing path and used Soul Siphon for the ultimate. But no one does that, because it would mean even less DPS and they are already meh. The only choice they have that doesn't affect their DPS is FH vs SS. And no, FH hot is not that great compared to actual heals. Not worth bringing a NB just because of it (not to mention that most NB would go with another morph anyway so they have more survivability. Also, it is likely that in HotR NBs will have to run FP instead of SS/FH anyway).

Why have more than 1 NB if you can bring more of another class? And if have 1 NB at all for that minor savagery - why not stam NB who deals way more DPS? And then what offheals are there? Vigor? Nothing that another stam build can't have.

Or maybe I didn't understand what you meant? I assumed you were talking about mNB because of offheals.

I think the chance of liquid lighting providing the procs WoE and the minor savagery NBs provide fits wit the same round of minor buffs each class can provide to the group, Sorc provides Minor prophesy.

Stamplars offer minor fracture and minor breach which I think is the only source for that debuff other than poisons.

NBs and Wardens have the only skills that provide major fracture and breach from range. Yes, limited usefulness, PvP and useful in vAA on the mage fight. Maybe with the terminals up top on the second boss in vHoF and if the NB is on the Reclaimer on the 4th vHoF boss.

But this is veering off topic.

You can get minor fracture from Focused Aim LOL!

josiahva · August 2017

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

I may just have to take my StamWarden into trials this week so that the people who think its bad in PvE can understand how wrong they are...

Stam Warden is fine in PvE, I have seen 45k parses on it. its MAGICKA Wardens that are terrible, struggling to hit 30k with perfect rotations.

majulook · August 2017

In comparison to other classes is the Warden class overpowered? No.
In comparison to other classes is the Warden class underpowered? Yes.

That all being said I am really enjoying my Magicka Warden, works great PVE and in PVP with the right skills it can handle its own.

My Altmer Magden is currently using: 5 pc TBS with shadow/thief mundus, 5 pc Necropotence (belt, glove, and jewelry) Sharpened destro Flame Staff (front bar), Sharpened destro Lightning Staff (back bar)

I really like and enjoy the way its working so far, probably have to change some things next update.

SanTii.92 · August 2017

SanTii.92 wrote: »

Which server you play in @Ihatenightblades

I really want to know.

Anhedonie · August 2017

Wardens will never be better than just a pvp class, based on cliff racer spamming that requires no skill.
Just give up and move on. There are 4 more classes in this game that don't suck.

heartburnkid · August 2017

The mushroom move sucks for healing.

SanTii.92 · August 2017

Anhedonie wrote: »

Wardens will never be better than just a pvp class, based on cliff racer spamming that requires no skill.
Just give up and move on. There are 4 more classes in this game that don't suck.

You don't deserve be wearing that avatar sir or ma'am. Shame on you.

SilverIce58 · August 2017

heartburnkid wrote: »

The mushroom move sucks for healing.

You're not wrong. Even if you're only healing yourself, it's quite the challenge to stay alive.