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What are some reasons for making Mag Sorcs so OP ?
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Kneighbors✭✭✭✭✭Why did they make DK so tanky powerful?
Why did they make NB so sneaky and deadly?
Why did they make Templar with so many group bonuses for healing and resources?
WTF??????? I think they must make one 2 classes, like terrorists and counterterrorists, and there will be only 5 weapons/skills to play with, and there will be much yonger community mostly not able to pay for the game over 10 bucks...
Leave ESO if you ask such silly questions, the game is not for you.Edited by Kneighbors on July 29, 2017 10:10AM3 -
Biro123✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭GreyWolf_79 wrote: »As a classic RPGer, I believe that magicka-based sorcerers SHOULD be OP. Damage-wise, anyway.
They should also be squishier than a snail.
Do "glass cannons" not exist anymore?
Not in a game where everyone has access to heals/shields and their strength is determined by the same stat as your offensive abilities.Minalan owes me a beer.
PC EU Megaserver
Minie Mo - Stam/Magblade - DC
Woody Ron - Stamplar - DC
Aidee - Magsorc - DC
Notadorf - Stamsorc - DC
Khattman Doo - Stamblade - Relegated to Crafter, cos AD.2 -
GreyWolf_79✭✭✭✭GreyWolf_79 wrote: »As a classic RPGer, I believe that magicka-based sorcerers SHOULD be OP. Damage-wise, anyway.
They should also be squishier than a snail.
Do "glass cannons" not exist anymore?
Not in a game where everyone has access to heals/shields and their strength is determined by the same stat as your offensive abilities.
Yeah, unfortunately the original class definitions no longer apply. Now we have DDs who want to be healers and tanks who want to be DDs, and everything in between. I'm all for unique custom hybrid classes, but something is very broken when high DPS builds also have high defense. There should be some sort of sacrifice / reward type of balance for every class.1 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Lord_Dexter wrote: »No nerf is required except shield stacking need a cooldown!
Sure.
IF we can cancel into shielding without wasting a GCD, just like dodgeroll!0 -
Biro123✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
Anything! Honestly. implosion isn't worth the all the complaints about it. When it procs (15% health??) they are dead from wrath anyway. When it doesn't proc at 15% health, they are dead from wrath anyway.
But when it does proc, people see it on the death recap and complain about no-skill procs. I'd seriously be happier with one less passive than everyone else. Or ideally, one that auto-replies to these same threads for me so I don't have to keep doing it! Or, or, give me a passive that shoots up a flare every time a sorc dies - so people can see that they're not actually invincible...Edited by Biro123 on July 29, 2017 11:05AMMinalan owes me a beer.
PC EU Megaserver
Minie Mo - Stam/Magblade - DC
Woody Ron - Stamplar - DC
Aidee - Magsorc - DC
Notadorf - Stamsorc - DC
Khattman Doo - Stamblade - Relegated to Crafter, cos AD.4 -
Graydon✭✭✭✭✭Well I'm 50 yrs old and love my Magic Sorcerer!
Thank you ZOS for letting me kick some young whipper snapper butt!10 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Electrone_Magnus wrote: »Mag sorc is hardly op, its just that it's easier to play it effectively than other classes. It has the worst self heals by far and you definitely need a healing staff. The only thing it has is hardened ward and a good burst combo( and high pve dps).
Its heals are still better than what NBs get.3 -
Vanzen✭✭✭✭✭
No, because they are boring as hell to play and don't offer any challenge. Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining for a nerf here. Im just telling you magsorc has the most easy job at being powerful and pulling off mighty burst in pvp.
But he made them work. And you cannot deny that Sorc burst in pvp is way too easy to pul off. It's literally cast curse, frag proc, mages wrath, forcepulse once and they can burst someone down. All from the safety of at least 2 shields. If they mess up its okay. Compare this to stamina nb (not the proctards but a properly built stam nb). That is way harder to play, needs more reflexes and larger chance to mess up and die. Sorc is just cast and forget.starkerealm wrote: »So... Deletia's data may be... a little bit out of date. I can't remember when he left the community. Morrowind, I think. But... even before that his builds were kinda... let's go with, "special circumstances."
Just play one then if you think they're so good.
Yup boring as hell ...
Each time I try mine I fall asleep. And go back to my DK.
its always the same routine, whatever happens.
Endless fury is the thing to nerf if I may ...
For the rest ... Let them spam the same key over and over ...
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Surak73✭✭✭✭✭And you cannot deny that Sorc burst in pvp is way too easy to pul off. It's literally cast curse, frag proc, mages wrath, forcepulse once and they can burst someone down.
Yes, if that one is stupid enough to get all of this while standing still without doing nothing. A nearly decent player could withstand these attacks easily and stun the sorc in the meantime.A magsorc low on health can stack shields up and streak away to heal up, come back and try again.
At least, he can try. Some days ago, a sorc nearly streaked away all the way from Roeback to Alessia before I reached and wrecked him with my "op" warden. I got some salty whispers after that lol...
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starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭GreyWolf_79 wrote: »GreyWolf_79 wrote: »As a classic RPGer, I believe that magicka-based sorcerers SHOULD be OP. Damage-wise, anyway.
They should also be squishier than a snail.
Do "glass cannons" not exist anymore?
Not in a game where everyone has access to heals/shields and their strength is determined by the same stat as your offensive abilities.
Yeah, unfortunately the original class definitions no longer apply. Now we have DDs who want to be healers and tanks who want to be DDs, and everything in between. I'm all for unique custom hybrid classes, but something is very broken when high DPS builds also have high defense. There should be some sort of sacrifice / reward type of balance for every class.
In fairness, the original design intent appears to be that each class was supposed to have a method to fulfill each role. With different abilities providing distinct flavor to each. So a Sorc tanks were supposed to be pure mitigation, NB tanks were supposed to be vampiric, templar tanks were supposed to be healers, and DKs were supposed to be resource recovery masters. (I'm talking about back in 2014, it's not entirely true now).
The problem is, that the community flat out rejected some of these build approaches (and frankly the NB tanks had an absurd skill floor that meant they were never really viable).
I think the original intent for sorc healers was that they would take some of the crowd control responsibilities off the tank. Which fits, because NB and Templar tanks had limited CC options back then.
In answer to Biro, the Sorc was never supposed to be a glass cannon. It pulls its name from a defensive mage build in the single player games (I assume, but it fits with the spell selection).
Originally there were supposed to be six classes, an offensive and defensive version for each armor type. I'm not sure if equipping any armor was something that came later or not. So for Heavy you had the DK as your defensive, and the Templar as your offensive. For Medium you had the Nighblade as offense and the Warden as defense (even though we had to wait 3 years to see these guys hit the game), and for light we had an offensive class that, as far as I know, has never been named publicly, and a defensive class: the sorc.
TES's sorcs have always had a focus on survival, going back to Arena. I'll be honest, it's always been a bit weird to me how two of the classes come from the single player games and two were fabricated from whole cloth for ESO. The Warden's in a weird state between them. It fits with mages we've seen in the setting, but never been able to play until now.
But, yeah, the sorc wasn't supposed to be a glass cannon. Along with the DK and Warden, they're your survival classes. They're just in that role for the most fragile armor type in the game.2 -
Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭In a BiS Team, who do you want as your tank? And who do you want as your healer?
Ask yourself these questions and tell me where the strength of sorcs would lie if you take away it's damage potential.
And for pvp... if you've got a problem to avoid the telegraphed burst combo every 4 seconds with a dodge, that is on you. If you think streak is a problem, what do you say about cloak? All it takes is 1 gap closer to negate streak. And you can gc far more often than any sorc could streak. Running away is OP now?
Shields strength comes from expensive stacking, cp boost and enormous max magicka builds. Seems like they were designed with far less than 50k mag in mind. That is an issue in solo situations, right. Probably they should tweak the base shield strength and the boni you get from higher mag. Or take more than just the resource pool into calculation.
On a side note: I've rarely run into a mS a group couldn't run through. But I also run into dk,nb, templars and even wardens we had problems with. So might it be possible that every class can be "OP" in the right hands with just different strengths?
And no, I'm not running a mS as my main since several months anymore.2 -
Olen_Mikko✭✭✭✭✭
✭As a nightblade, i can't help but laugh at these sorcs that keeps lying themselves that sorcs aren't OP.
Crit-protected shieds, 2 executives, ranged, high dps, high burst, best disengage mechanics and the list goes on.
NB enthusiastic:- Woodhippie stamblade - DW hard-hitter / PvE
- Know-it-all elf Magblade - Healer / PvE & PvP
- Hate-them-all elf Magblade - Destrostaff AoE monster / PvE
- Cyrodiil-Refugee stamblade - Stamina Tank / PvE
Go dominion or go home
Nightblade-Hipster. I played Nightblade before it was cool - from 1.5 onwards.7 -
GreenhaloX✭✭✭✭✭
✭LadyNalcarya wrote: »Its not wise to make deicisons based on what some ESO celebrity said.
Also, I think Deltia doesnt play anymore? Im not following him but there was a thread about this a while ago.
ESO celebrity.. ha ha ha. You all have to quit talking about Deltia guy so much. You're making Alcast and Fengrush jealous.
Oh, automatic 72 hours ban for anyone calling out for nerfing. Please, ZOS..1 -
Apherius✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭PLEASE
The DK tank is the best class tank in the game ! why did i never see post about this ?
Templar heal ( or warden , don't care ) is the best heal classt in the game
OF COURSE
all class can tank or heal dungeon ... but it's not the question , because all class can also dps dungeon !
WHY
why do you write that the mag sorc is #1 !!! can't you say " Mag sorc dps #1 " at least ? don't you know that unlike the dk or the templar , he can't do 2 roles , he is stuck in the " DPS world " cause he don't have ANY useful passif for tank or heal ... and all the skill that could make it useful for tank or heal are just less powerful that the templar / dk skills ... ( exemple : restraining prison is a version less powerful than chocking talon ... )
you should also know that the difference btw the sorc and dk tanking is bigger than the difference btw the sorc and the dk DPS .
and please , can't you make your own opinion ? why do you believe someone ( deltia ) who d'ont play anymore ?
instead of copy past old thing ... you should at least try to play stamina in raid with the maesltrom bow in back barre and 1 infused axe + 1 sharpned dagger . you will see that the magsorc is not as op as everyone say ...2 -
Sixsixsix161✭✭✭Unfortunately, when Morrowind was released, there were some major changes to MagSorc (relating to their handling of their pet, which also impacted the Warden and their bears). The net result was a nerf for them, and changed how they attack enemies (pets being pulled off the enemy due to heavy attacks, etc.)
That alone was more then enough to reduce MagSorc to below OP, which they really weren't to begin with.
It's sad that ZOS seems to listen to players like the OP.3 -
Magdalina✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭The fact that you're quoting a guide made before latest major patch (which introduced a plethora of changes including some pretty important sorc nerfs) by a guy who more or less quit after latest patch says a lot on its own.5 -
Epona222✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭It seems to me that I kill slightly fewer sorcs than I do other classes, but I'm not killed by them any more frequently than other classes kill me - so they aren't any more dangerous to me than other classes, they just escape better.
Mind you, I am still a bit of a plank when it comes to PvP, what do I know?GM - Ghost Sea Trading Co - NA PC
Epona was a Romano-Celtic goddess dating back to around 1800 to 2000 years before computer games were invented.1 -
EramTheLiar✭✭✭✭Mag sorcs are powerful because for a very very long time they were the weakest class in the game. Absolutely at the bottom. Everyone knew this but the devs, who seemed to ignore every single attempt from the player base to get the class fixed, until one day (so it seems) the devs said "whoa this class is really limping along" and then they fixed the ever-loving bejeezus out of that class and it re-emerged as the "disgustingly powerful" class it is now.
I have a hard time feeling bad about it because my first character was a sorcerer and I abandoned him at v10 or so because I wasn't good enough of a player to make him work - it was too frustrating to fight anything, especially back then when veteran levels were ridiculously hard on their own. I'm glad sorcs are getting a heady dose of power these days because once upon a time they were miserably weak and the only people who played them were stubborn, windmill-tilting dreamers.
But the answer to your question is "because once upon a time they were legitimately broken, and they got way over fixed."2 -
GreyWolf_79✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »GreyWolf_79 wrote: »GreyWolf_79 wrote: »As a classic RPGer, I believe that magicka-based sorcerers SHOULD be OP. Damage-wise, anyway.
They should also be squishier than a snail.
Do "glass cannons" not exist anymore?
Not in a game where everyone has access to heals/shields and their strength is determined by the same stat as your offensive abilities.
Yeah, unfortunately the original class definitions no longer apply. Now we have DDs who want to be healers and tanks who want to be DDs, and everything in between. I'm all for unique custom hybrid classes, but something is very broken when high DPS builds also have high defense. There should be some sort of sacrifice / reward type of balance for every class.
In fairness, the original design intent appears to be that each class was supposed to have a method to fulfill each role. With different abilities providing distinct flavor to each. So a Sorc tanks were supposed to be pure mitigation, NB tanks were supposed to be vampiric, templar tanks were supposed to be healers, and DKs were supposed to be resource recovery masters. (I'm talking about back in 2014, it's not entirely true now).
The problem is, that the community flat out rejected some of these build approaches (and frankly the NB tanks had an absurd skill floor that meant they were never really viable).
I think the original intent for sorc healers was that they would take some of the crowd control responsibilities off the tank. Which fits, because NB and Templar tanks had limited CC options back then.
In answer to Biro, the Sorc was never supposed to be a glass cannon. It pulls its name from a defensive mage build in the single player games (I assume, but it fits with the spell selection).
Originally there were supposed to be six classes, an offensive and defensive version for each armor type. I'm not sure if equipping any armor was something that came later or not. So for Heavy you had the DK as your defensive, and the Templar as your offensive. For Medium you had the Nighblade as offense and the Warden as defense (even though we had to wait 3 years to see these guys hit the game), and for light we had an offensive class that, as far as I know, has never been named publicly, and a defensive class: the sorc.
TES's sorcs have always had a focus on survival, going back to Arena. I'll be honest, it's always been a bit weird to me how two of the classes come from the single player games and two were fabricated from whole cloth for ESO. The Warden's in a weird state between them. It fits with mages we've seen in the setting, but never been able to play until now.
But, yeah, the sorc wasn't supposed to be a glass cannon. Along with the DK and Warden, they're your survival classes. They're just in that role for the most fragile armor type in the game.
Interesting. I've played TES games for years, but I didn't start playing ESO until this year, so I have no idea how the game was originally designed to be played. In Oblivion and Skyrim (and to the best of my recollection, Morrowind as well), there weren't actual set-in-stone classes. You had your three armor types, your three main attributes, and a variety of different spells, shields and weapons... everything from dual wield, bow, sword-and-board, 2-handed claymore, to a one-handed dagger / fireball combo, two handed staff, one hand destruction magic and one hand restoration, etc. You could play as stealth, or range, or hit-and-run, or full frontal melee. If you focused too much on dealing pure damage, you had to make sacrifices in defense and stealth. And vice versa.
If you want to achieve some sort of class balance, there needs to be both advantages and disadvantages to every playstyle. Or at least, that's my opinion. Pure DPS should be high damage, low defense. Healers should be low DPS, but excel at damage mitigation for both themselves and others in the group. Tanks should be medium DPS, high defense / damage absorption, low utility. Then you have your other alternative classes, such as stealth and ranged; stealth being quick, quiet, sneaky and deadly, but squishy in open combat; ranged being medium DPS, medium defense, with some utility / support type abilities; your "nukers" - glass cannons with massive damage capabilities but virtually no defense or damage mitigation;
I know, TES was never designed around so-called "traditional" RPG roles. And especially not for "traditional" MMO roles. I'm all for letting any player play any race, any class, any alliance, any role, etc. But when you have in-game content and builds that appear to be designed around the common MMORPG "tank, DPS, healer" trilogy, in both PVP and PVE, you cannot have a singular build that simultaneously excels at all three, at least not without making every other class combination appear useless or obsolete in comparison.
Not that I'm personally saying magsorc is OP. I only have one character, he's currently set up as a stamsorc. My char is not optimized, minmaxed, max CP, etc. I've never attempted high level PVP or PVE content. My character performs decently enough on his own - good enough deeps and survivability. Nothing spectacular, but he holds his own. Just as an average, medium armor hybrid-ish build should do. Seeing as how the current meta seems to be magicka sorcerer, for all playtypes (at least according to many people on the forums), maybe I should respec? I mean, if a light armor magic caster is going to deal more damage AND also survive better than a medium armor melee dual wielder, why shouldn't I ditch my axes and leather armor in exchange for robes and a lightning staff?0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Because they're ZOS' favorite son.
DKs have been more of a favorite son over the past 3+ years.
Besides, in looking at dummy dps parses, there are several classes really on par. I look at the DPS parse for this since trial boss parses have man variables that a dummy parse does not. Several classes can parse higher than 40k dps and most of the mSorc parses I have seen are using lightning wall where the stam parses I have seen that do just as well are not putting several stam classes above the mSorc.
Obviously PvP is a different combat situation but player skill is probably even more important since PvP combat changes constantly.1 -
Docmandu✭✭✭✭✭
✭Electrone_Magnus wrote: »It has the worst self heals by far
You've clearly never seen a necropotence pet sorc before.. and the rest just uses the cheap resto ulti (cheaper for a sorc, because of passives)... the ulti everyone claimed was bad / terrible when they first introduced it. People clearly dropped the ball on that one :P
And if that's not enough heals yet... zap away and Dark Deal to give both HP and magicka.
And if you need even more heals.. keep surge up.
needless to say.. the statement that sorcs have the worst self heals is a bit "biased".
Edited by Docmandu on July 29, 2017 12:39PM1 -
CyrusArya✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Sorcs are perceived as OP (PvP context) because there are tons of bad to mediocre players who have deluded themselves into thinking they are half way decent.9 -
TequilaFire✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Unless you are living under a rock for a while, you would know Mag Sorcs are #1.
Mag Sorcs are "disgustingly powerful" (quoting Deltia).
http://deltiasgaming.com/eso-magic-sorcerer-dps-build/
I personally believe ZOS has made Mag Sorcs so OP so that people with not-so-prime reflexes (like our grandparents) can taste MMORPG.
They would now be able to participate in VMA and come out unscathed and overall feel happy about themselves.
It is quite hard for those fine folks to compete with others in games like GW2, WoW etc so in order to lure those senior citizens ZOS has introduced Mag Sorc.
So kudos indeed ZOS for providing such a valuable service to our geriatric community.
So why do you think Mag Sorcs are made so OP ???
At 63 years old I take exception to your elder bashing I often have my stamblades and templars in the top 10 of PvP leader boards. I have a couple of sorcs but only find my stamsorc challenging enough to play.
It is Elder Scrolls after all!.
Edited by TequilaFire on July 29, 2017 12:54PM11 -
NeillMcAttack✭✭✭✭✭
✭Implosion is biggest amount of BS in the game! Besides that mag sorcs aren't so bad, they are just very easy to play and thus so popular because of it.PC EU - NoCP PvP, is real PvPTiidehunter Nord StamDK EP PvP MainLegion Commander Tresdin Stamplar DC PvE MainSephirith Altmer MagPlar EP Gondar the Bounty Hunter Khajiit StamBlade DCThe Dirge Redguard StamNecro EP Disruptor Stormcrafter Nord StamSorc ADLone Druid Bosmer Stam Warden EP Necro-Phos Argonian MagBlade AD@ McAttack in gamePlayed since beta, and then on console at release, until the game became unplayable on console.0 -
GreyWolf_79✭✭✭✭TequilaFire wrote: »Unless you are living under a rock for a while, you would know Mag Sorcs are #1.
Mag Sorcs are "disgustingly powerful" (quoting Deltia).
http://deltiasgaming.com/eso-magic-sorcerer-dps-build/
I personally believe ZOS has made Mag Sorcs so OP so that people with not-so-prime reflexes (like our grandparents) can taste MMORPG.
They would now be able to participate in VMA and come out unscathed and overall feel happy about themselves.
It is quite hard for those fine folks to compete with others in games like GW2, WoW etc so in order to lure those senior citizens ZOS has introduced Mag Sorc.
So kudos indeed ZOS for providing such a valuable service to our geriatric community.
So why do you think Mag Sorcs are made so OP ???
At 63 years old I take exception to your elder bashing I often have my stamblades and templars in the top 10 of PvP leader boards. I have a couple of sorcs but only find my stamsorc challenging enough to play.
It is Elder Scrolls after all!.
63 and still kicking ass and taking names! Kudos to you, good sir or madam. Perhaps some day you can teach me your tricks.
My dad is actually around your age and he also still games, oftentimes competitively. Unfortunately he doesn't play ESO, but if he did, he'd probably be quite good.
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Durham✭✭✭✭✭
✭Sorc and Nightblades generally the two best classes in PVP at the moment... They excel in almost every environment.. Magicka Sorcs can basically do it all.. Bursting though shields is crazy hard at times with no ability to crit .. Encountered several small man sorc groups we generally try to ignore them and go to the other side of the map...
They absolutely no fun to fight at the moment...
You get them on the defensive they run only to strike your group as they are ending the chase with incredible burst from range...If you keep chasing they run you out of resources keep in mind they will drag you half way across the map...
But if you don't have a sorc in your group you are doing it wrong ...I can't really say that about any other class...
PVP DEADWAIT
PVP The Unguildables2 -
Massive_Stain✭✭✭✭Unless you are living under a rock for a while, you would know Mag Sorcs are #1.
Mag Sorcs are "disgustingly powerful" (quoting Deltia).
http://deltiasgaming.com/eso-magic-sorcerer-dps-build/
I personally believe ZOS has made Mag Sorcs so OP so that people with not-so-prime reflexes (like our grandparents) can taste MMORPG.
They would now be able to participate in VMA and come out unscathed and overall feel happy about themselves.
It is quite hard for those fine folks to compete with others in games like GW2, WoW etc so in order to lure those senior citizens ZOS has introduced Mag Sorc.
So kudos indeed ZOS for providing such a valuable service to our geriatric community.
So why do you think Mag Sorcs are made so OP ???
So, to prove your "point", you alienate a demographic of people that you will eventually turn into?PC: CP 1200+ DroDest, Bringer of light
PS4: CP 1500+ Dro Dest, SoTN, Bringer of light, CragHMs, EoF, IR, TTT
Xbox: CP 450 Fungal Grotto 1 HM3 -
TequilaFire✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭You are only old if you let yourself become old.
My motorcycles, music and gaming keep me in step.
That is one advantage of being older you have time to do all those things. lol1
This discussion has been closed.