Psst! Healers and Tanks come here.

Sigourney_Frost · July 2017

I learned quickly to just queue as Healer if I want a smooth run. I play my Warden as a Healer/Tank so that if the person that queued as Tank is actually DPS, I can Tank, and I know a lot of Healers are not really Healers. lol

The price to make your build the way you want makes the group responsible to make sure you get through the dungeon.

Should there be rewards for Healers and Tanks? I agree that would be awesome, but just to simply encourage people to do those roles? They could do like what WoW does and give Tanks and Healers a cache for when the queue is long. We still have the issue with people queuing as Healer/Tank when they have none of the tools to provide for those roles.

vamp_emily · July 2017

I would like to have a magical chain that will yank DPS out of the red circle and bring them to me. Then I can spank him with my healing staff for being bad.

josiahva · July 2017

vamp_emily wrote: »

I would like to have a magical chain that will yank DPS out of the red circle and bring them to me. Then I can spank him with my healing staff for being bad.

Healer chains!

Make it like the warden gate and root the DPS for a set amount of time...

Khenarthi · July 2017

IronCrystal wrote: »

You guys make it sound like every enemy in this game is untauntable...

Start naming enemies that are untauntable. The list isn't as long as you think.

Also,

Tasear wrote: »

some titles related to roles we be interesting. Also I do feel tanks roles have diminished ...let a lone the off tank. Especially at higher levels. I know that I can cover as healer, 3 dps in most dungeons.

There is no such thing as an off-tank in 4 man dungeons.

Giraffon wrote: »

I think if you are queued up as a tank, than taunt should work on everything with no exceptions. If not queued as tank then the mechanics should stay as they are now.

I think that if you are queued up as a healer that you should slightly glow so you are easily identified as the healer in the group. Even if you are dead. As a tank, I hate running around looking for the dead healer while getting agro from the boss because I'm the only one still standing.

WTF you feel like you are so special you wanna glow? How absurd.

You guys think you are so "humble" by healing and tanking and that you should be treated with more respect than the DPS.

Get off your high horses.

At the moment, only untauntables that come to mind are the steam centurions in some dungeons (some, or some phases), the supersize dwarven spider, and the imperial guy summoning the gargoyle. Said gargoyle, and the king troll, as well as some minibosses in Direfrost will randomly target other members. Not unmanageable, just annoying.

And I have the utmost respect for good DDs, I tried DDing too and could not get past 22k single target (on bosses).

paulsimonps · July 2017

max_only wrote: »

Hey all you dps who clicked on this thread go away!

Those of you who are dual specced can participate too, I won't contribute to bi-role erasure.

This game, and most games in general, reward "phat deeps" in all aspects and damage dealing is important no doubt, but there are those of us who like support roles.

Let's brainstorm improvements or additions to content that rewards support players.

Some of my ideas:
1. Make the "block" and "heal" dungeon achievements count for even more Undaunted rep.

2. Award ranked titles for healing in pvp. Like "Field Medic", "Surgeon", "Surgeon General"

3. Add a 1 skill point passive to the Restoration staff skill line that unlocks a conversation tree to "heal" npcs. Finding all the npcs in all the zones that need your healing help gives a similar achievement to donating to all the beggars. Maybe a title/ costume/ dye color.

What are your ideas?

More Titles for healers and Tanks would be pretty cool. And the undaunted would be nice but not a deal breaker. No opinion on last one, but 2nd is something I would really really love.

phileunderx2 · July 2017

supaskrub wrote: »

phileunderx2 wrote: »

Got in a fake tank group yesterday in crypt of hearts. I drew 100 per cent of the aggro on the first boss and left group before the guy trying to rez me could finish.

Hmmmm not knocking you but how do you die to that boss?.. and really you should be blaming the healer if you died. This is one of the prime examples of a dungeon that really is easy enough to complete with no tank (presuming CoH1)..

I was the healer.

OC_Justice · July 2017

disintegr8 wrote: »

I'd just like them to make it so that tanks are more necessary in dungeons - too many can be steamrolled without the need for a tank. There are also too many dungeon bosses that don't need a tank or cannot be taunted.

This

Bosses that can not be taunted are an annoyance. One or maybe 2 special bosses, but more than that and you make us unnecessary. And if you do that in a dungeon make sure one will require a tank.

max_only · July 2017

jaschacasadiob16_ESO wrote: »

Surgeon? Medic Field? You probably played too much The Division.
I'd rather have some title like The sexy beacon of light or The sexy last hope of Tamriel.

On the other hand those fake tanks and healers should be marked for good, so that we all know they are liars.

I've never played the Division actually... and shorter titles are usually nicer looking imo

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Soriana wrote: »

We were talking in group tonight about role specific achievements for Heals and Tanks; the 50 kills for Midyear Mayhem was the catalyst. For heals, do 50 rez's, for tanks, do 50 assists for kills like chains or talons or something. Almost all achieves are either super simple (run here, chat with her, drink out of bowl, chat with other person, boom achieve) or geared towards DPS (win a battleground match, deliver 50 killing blows to players in PVP).

I would like to see a little diversity going forward.

The sad thing here in your suggestion is that generally speaking the DPS are supposed to be the ones doing the rezzing in dungeons and trials and such.

In dungeons yes- Dps need to do the rezzing, I agree 100%. However in PvP I was doing a whole lotta rezzes. I don't mind actually, it was a welcome challenge. Even made me consider putting points into the reduced rez time passive of the Support line, but I don't pvp often enough to justify it just yet.

Tasear · July 2017

Almost the afternoon right, so let me sit down here again

What about quests where you have to heal. I don't quest a lot, but are there such quests for healers or tanks? Would be fun if you had to bring materials for lore related medicines or have to protect mutliple npcs on some psuedo battlefield. Think fungal grotto where allied npcs follow you allow to the end ...if they live.

QuebraRegra · July 2017

max_only wrote: »

Hey all you dps who clicked on this thread go away!

Those of you who are dual specced can participate too, I won't contribute to bi-role erasure.

This game, and most games in general, reward "phat deeps" in all aspects and damage dealing is important no doubt, but there are those of us who like support roles.

Let's brainstorm improvements or additions to content that rewards support players.

Some of my ideas:
1. Make the "block" and "heal" dungeon achievements count for even more Undaunted rep.

2. Award ranked titles for healing in pvp. Like "Field Medic", "Surgeon", "Surgeon General"

3. Add a 1 skill point passive to the Restoration staff skill line that unlocks a conversation tree to "heal" npcs. Finding all the npcs in all the zones that need your healing help gives a similar achievement to donating to all the beggars. Maybe a title/ costume/ dye color.

What are your ideas?

you just got an awesome, because yer heal comments are awesome.

Ulo · July 2017

You have some very intresting points. But, the nagging thought at the back of my head is the old quality vs quantity argument, elevate tanks and healers above dps and you will see more people rush to do those jobs. More people will play them because they want an advantage not because they want to do the job, which will lead to bad tanks and heals. Not saying there arn't bad ones now, because there are, but i just can't see it helping the situation and assuming this would happen i would prefer them to stay how they are.

QuebraRegra · July 2017

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

disintegr8 wrote: »

I'd just like them to make it so that tanks are more necessary in dungeons - too many can be steamrolled without the need for a tank. There are also too many dungeon bosses that don't need a tank or cannot be taunted.

I'd say a tank is still more valuable than a healer in dungeons.

Maybe it's because I've never tanked, but I'm almost always awed by some of the great tanks I have been in a group with. I got heals, debuffs, buffs and whatnots for days, but MUCH RESPECT to those in the community who tank well. A good tank makes it sooo much easier.

QuebraRegra · July 2017

newtinmpls wrote: »

disintegr8 wrote: »

I'd just like them to make it so that tanks are more necessary in dungeons - too many can be steamrolled without the need for a tank. There are also too many dungeon bosses that don't need a tank or cannot be taunted.

I find the whole "cannot be taunted" thing irritating. Need a tank - but wait, no benefit to having one - [insert slap to ZoS person who made that call].

I'd like to see ALL the things be changed to be tauntable.

QuebraRegra · July 2017

chainlink01 wrote: »

. Healers rolling with 2hd swords, dps who feel the need to get to the mobs before anyone else and pull everything and not to mention the dps who que as healers or tanks.

*shakes head* why do people do that dumb !@&%?

Tasear · July 2017

QuebraRegra wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

disintegr8 wrote: »

I'd just like them to make it so that tanks are more necessary in dungeons - too many can be steamrolled without the need for a tank. There are also too many dungeon bosses that don't need a tank or cannot be taunted.

I'd say a tank is still more valuable than a healer in dungeons.

Maybe it's because I've never tanked, but I'm almost always awed by some of the great tanks I have been in a group with. I got heals, debuffs, buffs and whatnots for days, but MUCH RESPECT to those in the community who tank well. A good tank makes it sooo much easier.

A have the highest respect of those tanks who lead allies or control the battlefield. You can really tell these guys apart for they position themselves well and allies well. Also it's so nice not to get attacked while healing... makes me have glowing eyes across the screen at you "that's a boss" (all the enemies coming and doesn't even finch)

note: A good test if you are a great tank is to do vDSA - This when I knew... I had much to learn >.> as tank and am a far better healer than tank.

josiahva · July 2017

QuebraRegra wrote: »

newtinmpls wrote: »

disintegr8 wrote: »

I'd just like them to make it so that tanks are more necessary in dungeons - too many can be steamrolled without the need for a tank. There are also too many dungeon bosses that don't need a tank or cannot be taunted.

I find the whole "cannot be taunted" thing irritating. Need a tank - but wait, no benefit to having one - [insert slap to ZoS person who made that call].

I'd like to see ALL the things be changed to be tauntable.

This is really not an issue in many dungeons, Aside from Quintus(whom the tank can STILL hold aggro the entire fight without a taunting if he damages Quintus first) in Volenfell along with some of the modes of the various Dwemer centurion bosses Volenfell/DSC 1(which don't require taunting because they can just be kited around, called mechanics). Aside from those bosses all the others can be taunted, though some have random attacks at other group members. I like to tank, but in general its a pretty thankless job with the game ultra focused on DPS.

paulsimonps · July 2017

Tasear wrote: »

QuebraRegra wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

disintegr8 wrote: »

I'd just like them to make it so that tanks are more necessary in dungeons - too many can be steamrolled without the need for a tank. There are also too many dungeon bosses that don't need a tank or cannot be taunted.

I'd say a tank is still more valuable than a healer in dungeons.

Maybe it's because I've never tanked, but I'm almost always awed by some of the great tanks I have been in a group with. I got heals, debuffs, buffs and whatnots for days, but MUCH RESPECT to those in the community who tank well. A good tank makes it sooo much easier.

A have the highest respect of those tanks who lead allies or control the battlefield. You can really tell these guys apart for they position themselves well and allies well. Also it's so nice to get attacked while healing... makes me have glowing eyes across the screen at you "that's a boss" (all the enemies coming and doesn't even finch)

note: A good test if you are a great tank is to do vDSA - This when I knew... I had much to learn >.> as tank and am a far better healer than tank.

vDSA is indeed a great way to see if your tanks is good, a great tank will make vDSA much much easier. I tank 90% of my play time but few times I have done vDSA as a healer or DPS it can be a game changer to have a bad tank with you.

QuebraRegra · July 2017

vamp_emily wrote: »

I would like to have a magical chain that will yank DPS out of the red circle and bring them to me. Then I can spank him with my healing staff for being bad.

those naught DPSers! Along that line of thought, has anyone messed with the "BOND" SUPPORT skill on a healer?

CromulentForumID · July 2017

Khenarthi wrote: »

newtinmpls wrote: »

disintegr8 wrote: »

I'd just like them to make it so that tanks are more necessary in dungeons - too many can be steamrolled without the need for a tank. There are also too many dungeon bosses that don't need a tank or cannot be taunted.

I find the whole "cannot be taunted" thing irritating. Need a tank - but wait, no benefit to having one - [insert slap to ZoS person who made that call].

Same here. I would love to taunt all the bosses, but there are a few who just insist on chasing the squishy group members (and some will then blame me for not taking the boss away)

I do wish the game would tell you when there is an enemy that bypasses the standard game mechanics. Not all players head to Tamriel Foundry or the forums to read about how the game works. If you had to guess a percentage, how many players know untauntable enemies exist?

How much salty chat and unjustified kicks happen because of this kind of thing?

I get why some enemies are not tauntable. You don't want to have the end boss of every dungeon pulled to the corner and killed by 3 DD shooting it in the back 100 times. But, couldn't there be some kind of notification text, some dialog, something that would let players know the tank is not just being lazy?

Stuff like this is also why you get some absolutely horrible PUG dungeon runs. If you can light attack everything to death while questing, you should be able to do that in a dungeon, right?

Tasear · July 2017

josiahva wrote: »

QuebraRegra wrote: »

newtinmpls wrote: »

disintegr8 wrote: »

I'd just like them to make it so that tanks are more necessary in dungeons - too many can be steamrolled without the need for a tank. There are also too many dungeon bosses that don't need a tank or cannot be taunted.

I find the whole "cannot be taunted" thing irritating. Need a tank - but wait, no benefit to having one - [insert slap to ZoS person who made that call].

I'd like to see ALL the things be changed to be tauntable.

This is really not an issue in many dungeons, Aside from Quintus(whom the tank can STILL hold aggro the entire fight without a taunting if he damages Quintus first) in Volenfell along with some of the modes of the various Dwemer centurion bosses Volenfell/DSC 1(which don't require taunting because they can just be kited around, called mechanics). Aside from those bosses all the others can be taunted, though some have random attacks at other group members. I like to tank, but in general its a pretty thankless job with the game ultra focused on DPS.

I am sure the bolded part is what inspired this entire thread. On that thought can you imagine if healer and tanks didn't get experience in PvE dugeons, because they can't kill. It takes a more diverse skill set to support others than some people realize. It's not simply healing but supporting and assisting depending on the needs of others.

P.S untauntable boss in wayrest 1, undauntable boss in wgt, untauntable boss in arx corruim, untauntable boss in direfrost, untuantble boss in darkshade 1 and 2.

Special note: Some things that can't be pulled with chains can be with frozen gate... some things that can't be taunted with punture or aggro fire are being taunted with the frost staff. Also heard the same about the monster helm that pulls enemies

FlaviusVoyage · July 2017

Khenarthi wrote: »

newtinmpls wrote: »

disintegr8 wrote: »

I'd just like them to make it so that tanks are more necessary in dungeons - too many can be steamrolled without the need for a tank. There are also too many dungeon bosses that don't need a tank or cannot be taunted.

I find the whole "cannot be taunted" thing irritating. Need a tank - but wait, no benefit to having one - [insert slap to ZoS person who made that call].

Same here. I would love to taunt all the bosses, but there are a few who just insist on chasing the squishy group members (and some will then blame me for not taking the boss away)

Oh, for the love of Mara, I cannot tell how many situations I desperately kept re-taunting the boss and screaming in my mind "Pick me!!! Pick meeee!!!!"

Soriana · July 2017

[/quote]

WTF you feel like you are so special you wanna glow? How absurd.

You guys think you are so "humble" by healing and tanking and that you should be treated with more respect than the DPS.

Get off your high horses.
[/quote]

No one said anything about being treated with more respect; we simply are suggesting that there be role specific rewards for healers and tanks like there are for DPS.

Dubhliam · July 2017

The solution to your problem is not adding role specific achievements.

Quite the opposite.

ZOS should stop making DPS achievements. So that players don't feel pressured out of their prefferred role.

That being said, any player worth their salt can preform any combination of roles (healer/DD or tank/DD) or all of them with some simple gear and skill swap.
PC users are at an advantage doing this because... addons.

I have tanked almost all my ESO playtime and I always carry a DPS set with me, so that I can quickly swap to the DD role.
With Morrowind came the first achievements that will actually require that I heal with my DK, and I have no problem with that.
I am an achievement hunter, and if that requires making a DK healer, so be it.

Vercingetorix · July 2017

I wish there was more incentive for support roles in ESO. It seems a great deal of achievements are designed for DPS roles. Perhaps adding in some special rewards/achievements for Trial/Dungeon/Cyrodiil support milestones?
Here's some quick examples:
- Clearing a HM trial with no deaths, while preventing at least X amount of total damage for the group during the trial.
Unlocks: A glowing aura skin with Aedric runes across your character's body.
- Revive X amount of players, who then got their "revenge kill" on their attacker shortly after.
Unlocks: A new golden skin that shows your character slowly radiating bright flames from their body.

A set of achievements and rewards like this are something that makes being a support build special and it's a way to show off how well you do your job! Maybe not these exact examples listed above, but something similar would be nice instead of the constant "kill X things" and "deal X damage in this place" achievements. Perhaps a whole set of "support role" AP ranks (and skill points) based on a new list of achievements for support actions while in Cyrodiil?

josiahva · July 2017

Tasear wrote: »

josiahva wrote: »

QuebraRegra wrote: »

newtinmpls wrote: »

disintegr8 wrote: »

I'd just like them to make it so that tanks are more necessary in dungeons - too many can be steamrolled without the need for a tank. There are also too many dungeon bosses that don't need a tank or cannot be taunted.

I find the whole "cannot be taunted" thing irritating. Need a tank - but wait, no benefit to having one - [insert slap to ZoS person who made that call].

I'd like to see ALL the things be changed to be tauntable.

This is really not an issue in many dungeons, Aside from Quintus(whom the tank can STILL hold aggro the entire fight without a taunting if he damages Quintus first) in Volenfell along with some of the modes of the various Dwemer centurion bosses Volenfell/DSC 1(which don't require taunting because they can just be kited around, called mechanics). Aside from those bosses all the others can be taunted, though some have random attacks at other group members. I like to tank, but in general its a pretty thankless job with the game ultra focused on DPS.

I am sure the bolded part is what inspired this entire thread. On that thought can you imagine if healer and tanks didn't get experience in PvE dugeons, because they can't kill. It takes a more diverse skill set to support others than some people realize. It's not simply healing but supporting and assisting depending on the needs of others.

P.S untauntable boss in wayrest 1, undauntable boss in wgt, untauntable boss in arx corruim, untauntable boss in direfrost, untuantble boss in darkshade 1 and 2.

Special note: Some things that can't be pulled with chains can be with frozen gate... some things that can't be taunted with punture or aggro fire are being taunted with the frost staff. Also heard the same about the monster helm that pulls enemies

There is no untauntable boss in wayrest 1. While there is the inhibitor in WGT, the tank can hold aggro just fine for more than 50% of the fight by closing the pinion and telling others not to touch it till coldfire mode. No untauntable boss in arx(last boss is perfectly tauntable, but sometimes will go off and attack someone randomly). Drodda in Direfrost is indeed untauntable...I just swap to DPS gear and skills for that fight. I dont count the bosses in darkshade as untauntable simply because they dont need to be taunted...anyone can easily stay out of range, even if they have aggro(by which I mean that they are truly designed to make the DPS move, so untauntability is part of their core design, but the tank can still be useful in DS II by chaining/gating in the ads for AoE damage or spamming shields...thats one I will sometimes swap to DPS gear and skills for, and sometimes not, depending on how good the DPS are at surviving on their own)

max_only · July 2017

IronCrystal wrote: »

You guys make it sound like every enemy in this game is untauntable...

Start naming enemies that are untauntable. The list isn't as long as you think.

Also,

Tasear wrote: »

some titles related to roles we be interesting. Also I do feel tanks roles have diminished ...let a lone the off tank. Especially at higher levels. I know that I can cover as healer, 3 dps in most dungeons.

There is no such thing as an off-tank in 4 man dungeons.

Giraffon wrote: »

I think if you are queued up as a tank, than taunt should work on everything with no exceptions. If not queued as tank then the mechanics should stay as they are now.

I think that if you are queued up as a healer that you should slightly glow so you are easily identified as the healer in the group. Even if you are dead. As a tank, I hate running around looking for the dead healer while getting agro from the boss because I'm the only one still standing.

WTF you feel like you are so special you wanna glow? How absurd.

You guys think you are so "humble" by healing and tanking and that you should be treated with more respect than the DPS.

Get off your high horses.

It has nothing to do with humblebrag or "so special". For some people it is dark in dungeons (not to mention all those threads requesting the upcoming color blind options) so a little indicator on the healers might make it easier for people to a) run towards healers and the AOE heals we place and b) Rez us first in a dire situation.

I'm not sure how I feel about the glow anyway, I think it might paint an even bigger target on my back if it was enabled in pvp.

lasertooth · July 2017

A lot of the achievements and rewards in this game emphasize/favor dps. I think battlegrounds was a step in the right direction, it's the first time as a console player I had a number next to my name that quantified and acknowledged my healing.

max_only · July 2017

Tasear wrote: »

Almost the afternoon right, so let me sit down here again

What about quests where you have to heal. I don't quest a lot, but are there such quests for healers or tanks? Would be fun if you had to bring materials for lore related medicines or have to protect mutliple npcs on some psuedo battlefield. Think fungal grotto where allied npcs follow you allow to the end ...if they live.

I used to hate escort quests in other games, but the npcs in this game aren't as annoying (they actually jog instead of walk to get out of danger!) so maybe we could get one or two of those. Not too many though, it can get tedious.

Riddari · July 2017

jaschacasadiob16_ESO wrote: »

Riddari wrote: »

You misunderstood.
I don't want all classes to be able to be all 3 at once. That would be absurd.
I want all classes to be able to have tools at their disposal which would allow them to specialize in any of the 3 roles.

Then why having classes at all? You have the option to use and specialize in specific weapons, including the Restoration Staff. This gives any class the chance to heal, even if less than a Templar. If all classes had a specialization for tanking, damaging and healing then remove all classes and that's pretty much it.

Oh so I guess every heal and every shield and every source of damage works exactly the same way? I suppose templar heals and warden heals are exactly the same? Why even have those two classes they both have a skill line for healing, right? They're practically the same thing, right?

No. No they are not.

If Warden and Templar have dedicated skill lines for healing so can the other classes in their own way. There's no reason in my opinion for each class not to have a way to fill each role.

max_only · July 2017

QuebraRegra wrote: »

vamp_emily wrote: »

I would like to have a magical chain that will yank DPS out of the red circle and bring them to me. Then I can spank him with my healing staff for being bad.

those naught DPSers! Along that line of thought, has anyone messed with the "BOND" SUPPORT skill on a healer?

I've thought about it but I think it would work best on a tank. Maybe a sap tank, so it heals itself when it does damage. I don't have enough health to take damage for two people so I had to dismiss it on my healer. Maybe if my Templar was a tank it would be useful.