Bots Apocalypse - Please stop them

Universe · July 2017

Eiagra wrote: »

Lord wrote: »

yes, maybe.
But it is logical to assume there is a limit to how many times a player can change his User_ID and if the User_ID is appropriate(approved by auto system when entered) etc.

You'd only need one change at the point of account transfer to turn it from obviously-a-bot random gibberish to reasonably-legit-looking regular handle.

Yes, unless they are botting with breaks.
Sometimes they play normally and sometimes they go botting.
Then they will need multiple User_ID name changes.
Currently legit players with like 1,600+ champion points might have been bots in the past.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom Can you please respond in regard to the botting issue ?
How many more threads will be opened until something will be done ?
This is 1 more new thread about bots after mine:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/359574/are-bots-going-to-ruin-eso-like-they-did-with-linage-2/p1

StackonClown · July 2017

"once we finish the latest dyes and hats for the crown store" - we can 'have a look'

Universe · July 2017

StackonClown wrote: »

"once we finish the latest dyes and hats for the crown store" - we can 'have a look'

You're optimistic

Soundso · July 2017

I am investigating and reporting those leather farming bots since April last year.
Back then they were well hidden in the almost empty vet zones. Most players i talked about didn't believed that the game even has bots. Also not much about them in the forums.
This changed with One Tamriel. They can't hide so easy anymore. More people see them and the forum is full of bot topics.
But because of the way ZOS handle this (or not) the majority of players think they don't care about and they get never banned.

I can't confirm that ZOS would not ban them.
But what they do obviously don't work. It can take weeks until they get banned but the replacements are back within a day.
But the gold was already transferred to other accounts and is still up for sale.
Or it needs a lot of complaining in the forum until finally a community manager take care. Three days after this all bots got banned and they nerfed the respawn of that location so it's not worth to bot there anymore. But ZOS knew about this location since May last year when i discovered it.

But i don't think this is a hopeless situation that could not be solved.
I don't even see a big problem with it.

What should happen in my opinion:

They need a group 2-3 GMs dedicated to the bot problem. This should be enough for all servers.
At first they need to do some background check. There are informations about internal bot guilds where they move the gold between accounts. Observe those guilds and the members and then ban them. You are not in such a guild if you are not involved. If there are normal players than they got invited because they bought so much from them.

Check out the normal trading guilds where those accounts sell leather scraps and wax. Send a warning to all the bigger buyers. There is just a handful of players that buy this in huge quantities. Some do this since April last year!
But i think most will stop if they receive a warning. Permban them if they do it again.

Also send out a warning to the leaders of those trading guilds. There are just a few guilds that tolerate them and the leaders are well informed about.

After this check out the botting locations each few days and just ban them. If they go to new locations players will find out and inform you. At least if they see that ZOS does something about it!

This is no rocket science. I could easily do this alone. And 2-3 GMs should not be too expensive for ZOS. At least not if they care for their own game.

With this the bots would be banned within a week. But also they would have a tough time to sell the materials if players are too afraid to touch it.

I am talking specificly about this group of leather farming bots. As far as i see they are still the biggest and most professional botting network in the game.
Since One Tamriel there are more bots that don't belong to this network.
But if ZOS don't start to take this more serious more and more bots will show up!

Besides i have a complain about reporting bots in general.

That you removed the option to report at the website is stupid and makes it more complicated. I take screenshots of all bot accounts and make a list and send it to you. Now i need to start a ticket ingame but don't have enough space to send dozens of account names at once. So i need to open a ticket and then update it at the homepage.
But before i need to change the language to English because i want to bypass the "German support".
Give us the option to open tickets at the website again!
Also we should not even need to report bot accounts. It should be enough if we just tell you the locations.

Also it would not hurt to send an answer to tickets! I am not talking about the outcome of an investigation. I see myself if the bot is banned. But i would like to know that my ticket was read from the right department. Or read at all!

You should understand that you are not alone with this problem! Plenty of players would love to support you but they want to see that it's worth!

I don't assume i get any answer but:
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

Jamascus · July 2017

1. probably not bots
2. if bots, not ruining economy

Soundso · July 2017

Jamascus wrote: »

1. probably not bots

viewer.php?img=Screenshot_20170505_0957192G0MZXEOW14D.jpg

Jamascus wrote: »

2. if bots, not ruining economy

Jamascus · July 2017

Soundso wrote: »

Jamascus wrote: »

1. probably not bots

Jamascus wrote: »

2. if bots, not ruining economy

Explain yourself. How do bots ruin the economy?

Jamascus · July 2017

Lord wrote: »

jcaceresw wrote: »

I get pretty tired of seeing posts about bots, people cheating on PVP and people who can make insane amounts of mats and selling them for millions gold everyday. I guess it's high time to stop subbing and moving on. No, you can't have my stuff. I may give them to my friend.

I'm getting tired of all this too.
I hope ZOS will listen to player feedback this time and something will be done to stop the bots & if possible other exploits and cheating.
It seems there isn't any software at ZOS side which can detect the botting.
An effective anti bot system is needed.

They implemented anti-bot mechanics in summer of 2014, the lighting patch. It ruined cyrodiil because it causes so much lag. Cyrodiil has yet to recover. They need to remove that part of the lighting patch.

Malic · July 2017

Jamascus wrote: »

Lord wrote: »

jcaceresw wrote: »

I get pretty tired of seeing posts about bots, people cheating on PVP and people who can make insane amounts of mats and selling them for millions gold everyday. I guess it's high time to stop subbing and moving on. No, you can't have my stuff. I may give them to my friend.

I'm getting tired of all this too.
I hope ZOS will listen to player feedback this time and something will be done to stop the bots & if possible other exploits and cheating.
It seems there isn't any software at ZOS side which can detect the botting.
An effective anti bot system is needed.

They implemented anti-bot mechanics in summer of 2014, the lighting patch. It ruined cyrodiil because it causes so much lag. Cyrodiil has yet to recover. They need to remove that part of the lighting patch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdK6sR5Sfdc

Roovin · July 2017

Bot's are prevalent in every MMO and there is no way to prevent new boots bot's from popping up. Literally the only thing that can be done is try to ban them asap.

Universe · July 2017

Soundso wrote: »

I am investigating and reporting those leather farming bots since April last year.
Back then they were well hidden in the almost empty vet zones. Most players i talked about didn't believed that the game even has bots. Also not much about them in the forums.
This changed with One Tamriel. They can't hide so easy anymore. More people see them and the forum is full of bot topics.
But because of the way ZOS handle this (or not) the majority of players think they don't care about and they get never banned.

I can't confirm that ZOS would not ban them.
But what they do obviously don't work. It can take weeks until they get banned but the replacements are back within a day.
But the gold was already transferred to other accounts and is still up for sale.
Or it needs a lot of complaining in the forum until finally a community manager take care. Three days after this all bots got banned and they nerfed the respawn of that location so it's not worth to bot there anymore. But ZOS knew about this location since May last year when i discovered it.

But i don't think this is a hopeless situation that could not be solved.
I don't even see a big problem with it.

What should happen in my opinion:

They need a group 2-3 GMs dedicated to the bot problem. This should be enough for all servers.
At first they need to do some background check. There are informations about internal bot guilds where they move the gold between accounts. Observe those guilds and the members and then ban them. You are not in such a guild if you are not involved. If there are normal players than they got invited because they bought so much from them.

Check out the normal trading guilds where those accounts sell leather scraps and wax. Send a warning to all the bigger buyers. There is just a handful of players that buy this in huge quantities. Some do this since April last year!
But i think most will stop if they receive a warning. Permban them if they do it again.

Also send out a warning to the leaders of those trading guilds. There are just a few guilds that tolerate them and the leaders are well informed about.

After this check out the botting locations each few days and just ban them. If they go to new locations players will find out and inform you. At least if they see that ZOS does something about it!

This is no rocket science. I could easily do this alone. And 2-3 GMs should not be too expensive for ZOS. At least not if they care for their own game.

With this the bots would be banned within a week. But also they would have a tough time to sell the materials if players are too afraid to touch it.

I am talking specificly about this group of leather farming bots. As far as i see they are still the biggest and most professional botting network in the game.
Since One Tamriel there are more bots that don't belong to this network.
But if ZOS don't start to take this more serious more and more bots will show up!

Besides i have a complain about reporting bots in general.

That you removed the option to report at the website is stupid and makes it more complicated. I take screenshots of all bot accounts and make a list and send it to you. Now i need to start a ticket ingame but don't have enough space to send dozens of account names at once. So i need to open a ticket and then update it at the homepage.
But before i need to change the language to English because i want to bypass the "German support".
Give us the option to open tickets at the website again!
Also we should not even need to report bot accounts. It should be enough if we just tell you the locations.

Also it would not hurt to send an answer to tickets! I am not talking about the outcome of an investigation. I see myself if the bot is banned. But i would like to know that my ticket was read from the right department. Or read at all!

You should understand that you are not alone with this problem! Plenty of players would love to support you but they want to see that it's worth!

I don't assume i get any answer but:
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

Thank you for this insightful post

There are many gold sellers who operate multiple bots in ESO and this practice needs to end.
ZOS can hire game masters who can pursue the bots and buyers from gold sellers(act on reports and game data) and if necessary ban them+destroy all their gold.
I still believe that a new anti bot code/system is needed since the game design(multiple phases) makes it more difficult for normal players to track down the bots, so until they get banned by the 2-3 GMs, they already made millions upon millions of gold.
A combination of both ingame GMs and anti bot code/system may be ideal for resolving this issue(the GMs will ban the bots which are not auto detected by the anti bot code/system, if there is like 80% chance of detection etc).
Furthermore, I believe that anyone who buy gold for real life money should be banned without warning for a very long period/permanently and stripped away from all his ill-gotten gains.

The time to act is now(some will say long passed, but no, there is still hope).
It is up to Zenimax Online Studios to decide the wisest course of action in resolving this issue.
I hope they will try to resolve this issue SOON.

Iselin · July 2017

On NA PC it's now the worst it has ever been including release.

It's hard to disagree with those who post saying that ZOS no longer cares to police it because that's what it looks like. You can go to any zone and find an area with a high density and quick respawn of wolves, bears or any other critter that drops leather and they'll be there in a pack.

Meld777 · July 2017

There is an important factor many of you don't understand yet. Other than in games like Neverwinter Online which are F2P, people have bought their games. And it's a completely different thing to ban a paying customer.

So, let's assume there's a video of you botting. Possible answers:

- "I just like to farm in peace."
- "I don't speak English."
- "My chat is off."
- "I had to take a ***."
- "Doesn't matter. I AM NOT A BOT. That's my final statement. Were you next to me in front of my computer and saw the bot running? And took a video of THAT? No? Well, sucks to be you, ZOS. I am not a bot. I am a consumer and I paid for this game. I want to play it. Unban me, or else!"

Now, US is one thing. But don't underestimate the consumer support in the EU. If you're taking a promised service away from your customer, you have to refund him + pay for damages. Furthermore, if you're not closing your game completely, but actually banning single individuals, you don't wanna face the anti-discrimination laws.

Oh yeah, there's also chargeback. ZOS may not care too much about individual chargebacks per se, but if many people do that in the EU, ZOS might get banned from accepting EU payments. Of course they can try to see if they have a case on every single chargeback, but "customer is right" until you prove 100% that it was his fault. Not 99%. So unless you have a video of the customer in his home launching the bot, your chances are pretty bad.

The reason hackers got unbanned was not that ZOS is too friendly. The reason was that the hackers simply answered "I don't know anything about hacks, it was all legit!" and threatened with customer protection authorities.

When ESO was relatively new and management was unexperienced, they could just log on and manually ban every bot like in that video. But by now, they have already faced multiple incidents with authorities and, unless you're actively promoting mass murder in real life, nothing will ever happen. If you go too far (botting, cheating, etc.), they might ban you. But a "I paid for it, unban me, or else!" is enough as long as you're in the EU.

Banning one person might sound simple, but this is the exact definition of discrimination: providing to many while excluding one. And trust me, you don't wanna mess with people that are able to shut you down with one signature. And chances are ZOS already got at least one warning. As many online services.

#EUlife

AyeshaBelladonna · July 2017

What i've been seeing lately isn't even true bots but I'm pretty sure is a no-no, someone having multiple characters/accounts, all together. they are sorcs with pets out. they will camp bosses and let their pets do their attacking while standing nearby doing nothing. after the boss is dead, you will see one of these 'statue people' come to life, run over and loot then run back to the group. then another one, then another. these are groups of 3-5. all with nearly identical account and toon name. its painfully obvious its one person operating ALL these toons. how without having several laptops sitting next to them or something similar i have no idea. but I'm seeing these groups far more than i am the normal bots. Its a disturbing tread of folks trying to get around the no-botting rules.

Loralai_907 · July 2017

The bot train in Grahtwood that I reported seems to still be active. At least some of the names were the same. I went through and reported a bunch of them, not sure if I got them all. The weird thing about this group is when someone is around obviously watching, the group splits and a couple of the names do more unique actions. Then after a short bit, they all meet back up. You can watch their path, they still go the same ways, turn at the same points, for no bloody reason before meeting back up with the main group.

They have had more than enough time to have banned these accounts. Unless they have one guy that handles bot reports and he works for an hour once a month.

This is exactly why I try to ignore this stuff. By allowing it to continue, by not banning accounts, they are telling people this is an OK thing to do. This is allowed apparently. Not that I have any desire to join the fun, I do not. But, I think it is important that it be brought up. They are encouraging this type of behavior by not taking care of it when things are reported.

Universe · July 2017

mommadani907 wrote: »

The bot train in Grahtwood that I reported seems to still be active. At least some of the names were the same. I went through and reported a bunch of them, not sure if I got them all. The weird thing about this group is when someone is around obviously watching, the group splits and a couple of the names do more unique actions. Then after a short bit, they all meet back up. You can watch their path, they still go the same ways, turn at the same points, for no bloody reason before meeting back up with the main group.

They have had more than enough time to have banned these accounts. Unless they have one guy that handles bot reports and he works for an hour once a month.

This is exactly why I try to ignore this stuff. By allowing it to continue, by not banning accounts, they are telling people this is an OK thing to do. This is allowed apparently. Not that I have any desire to join the fun, I do not. But, I think it is important that it be brought up. They are encouraging this type of behavior by not taking care of it when things are reported.

Botting of any shape or form is not allowed in ESO.
Quote from ToS:
"You agree not to use any hardware or software or any other method of support that is not authorized by ZeniMax or that may in any way influence or advantage Your playing abilities, or influence or advantage Your use of the Services. Third party tools, the use of "bots", "speed hacks", "deep-link", "page-scrape", "robot", "spider", algorithms or other programs that copy or monitor any part of the Services (including, but not limited to, the Game(s) and/or forums), software that transmits, manipulates, or distributes (including, but are limited to, "mirroring") the data stream or any aspect of the Services to another computer, server websites or other publication or distribution media, or software that permits You to use Services without human input are examples of methods not authorized by ZeniMax."

There are active bots.
ZOS just didn't ban them yet.
If anyone who read this thread is planning to join the bots, I strongly suggest that you STOP thinking about it and don't do it.
Botting is not allowed and may lead to your account being banned/actioned.

I hope that a solution for the botting issue will be found soon.

ProfesseurFreder · July 2017

How do you tell a bot from a real player who may be farming a location - or just standing around?

Universe · July 2017

ProfesseurFreder wrote: »

How do you tell a bot from a real player who may be farming a location - or just standing around?

The bots perform the exact same actions all the time, multiple bots go from one location to other location.
The bots usually have very weird User_IDs and are not communicative.
There is a link to a video detailing bots in the first page of this thread, showing how they act.

Megabear · July 2017

Just reported a set of 8~9 bots yesterday. They were farming in SE corner area of Shadowfen.

Loralai_907 · July 2017

The point is, it takes entirely too long to take care of the issue. Months is not acceptable. Several weeks is not acceptable. This has been an ongoing issue for so long, it isn't even funny anymore. Its gross and disgusting and slimy that this is the "acceptable" standard.

Troneon · July 2017

ZOS will probably nerf bots by screwing up performance in pvp again and nerfing templars some more

Only to not actually solve the bot issue for another few years

Elsonso · July 2017

Troneon wrote: »

ZOS will probably nerf bots by screwing up performance in pvp again and nerfing templars some more

Only to not actually solve the bot issue for another few years

I get the sarcasm, and wish to add my own.

ZOS, in response to complaining, will make a big splashy event, with an announcement from Jessica. They will ban hundreds of bots. In the hours and days that follow, people will complain they were not botting, and many wil be right. ZOS will unban a lot of the banned players, about half of them will actuallly be botters. The group that remains banned will consist of mainly people who were not botting, and ZOS does not believe them.

I don't want ZOS to make a statement and throw out a net using a catch-and-release process. I want them to just ban bots within hours of being reported.

Merlin13KAGL · July 2017

Lord wrote: »

SSlarg wrote: »

I think Zenimax just needs to unleash

#TheBotBanHammer!!!

Indeed.
But having game masters to login after reports isn't efficient.
Currently, it seems there isn't enough game masters to handle them.
Also, the bots may hide for a very long time until anyone will report them.

There is a need for an auto detect and ban system.
Though the risk with such system is false positives, so ZOS needs to be 100% sure it is working properly before implementing it.

Funny thing about this, there was a proposed alternative that I think people would greatly enjoy.

Deputize.

Allow people the ability to hunt the bots themselves after certain requirements were met. The 'verification process' could be built into the game, and once initiated by the hunter, it could have necessary interactions with the presumed bot.

If the interactions were not met, think "CAPTCHA" for MMO's, then the player would be free to enact justice accordingly.

There would be an entire group of people that would surround this opportunity and it could be a RP'ers' dream come true.

I'd certainly take some time out of my week to help purge.

This is one of a dozen different ways this could be determined and dealt with.

Universe · July 2017

lordrichter wrote: »

Troneon wrote: »

ZOS will probably nerf bots by screwing up performance in pvp again and nerfing templars some more

Only to not actually solve the bot issue for another few years

I get the sarcasm, and wish to add my own.

ZOS, in response to complaining, will make a big splashy event, with an announcement from Jessica. They will ban hundreds of bots. In the hours and days that follow, people will complain they were not botting, and many wil be right. ZOS will unban a lot of the banned players, about half of them will actuallly be botters. The group that remains banned will consist of mainly people who were not botting, and ZOS does not believe them.

I don't want ZOS to make a statement and throw out a net using a catch-and-release process. I want them to just ban bots within hours of being reported.

There is always a risk of false positives with an auto ban system.
That's why ZOS should release such a system only when the chance for such false positives is extremely low.
Only GMs responding to reports will be inefficient, there is a need for an auto detect+ban system too.

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Lord wrote: »

SSlarg wrote: »

I think Zenimax just needs to unleash

#TheBotBanHammer!!!

Indeed.
But having game masters to login after reports isn't efficient.
Currently, it seems there isn't enough game masters to handle them.
Also, the bots may hide for a very long time until anyone will report them.

Funny thing about this, there was a proposed alternative that I think people would greatly enjoy.

Deputize.

Allow people the ability to hunt the bots themselves after certain requirements were met. The 'verification process' could be built into the game, and once initiated by the hunter, it could have necessary interactions with the presumed bot.

If the interactions were not met, think "CAPTCHA" for MMO's, then the player would be free to enact justice accordingly.

There would be an entire group of people that would surround this opportunity and it could be a RP'ers' dream come true.

I'd certainly take some time out of my week to help purge.

This is one of a dozen different ways this could be determined and dealt with.

Yeah, this idea was proposed in the past.
But ZOS won't do it since it can lead to some exploiting.
Also, there will be grief to simple pve carebears who just looked like bots.
There is a need for 100% chance for correct system check and I don't think this is possible.

ilander · July 2017

I do a chest run past this area in Karthdar and there are sometimes in excess of 14 bots at a time running around there. They don't seem to be around in such large numbers until pretty late at night though when less people are going to see them.

It is time there was an actual section to report bots rather than having to guess the best way to report them and then repeating possibly the wrong kind of report 14 times as well.

ilander · July 2017

.. and again there's a train of about 12 of them today at Karthdar, Grahtwood, PC/EU... save me from spending ages fumbling about with reports where there's no guarantee of anything getting done and get rid of these bots please
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

Rahotu · July 2017

do the bots have eso+? if so are paying members of a welcoming fraternity,stop this xenophobic attack at once!

Universe · July 2017

ilander wrote: »

.. and again there's a train of about 12 of them today at Karthdar, Grahtwood, PC/EU... save me from spending ages fumbling about with reports where there's no guarantee of anything getting done and get rid of these bots please
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

Indeed.
I'm sure ZOS isn't ignoring the issue.
They are probably working on a way to resolve the issue before making a response in this thread.
It is a very complicated issue and there is legal evidence to gather before they ban thousands of accounts(whatever the number of bots accounts may be).
If they will implement an anti bot system/code which will ban thousands of accounts of innocent players, it could be the worst crisis this game ever faced.
Also, the development of an efficient anti bot system/code could probably take a lot of time.
I hope ZOS will be able to resolve this issue in the near future(this month or the next).
I stopped using the @ZOS method since I don't think it can do any good, this thread had over 5k views and more than 100 comments, there is 100% chance they already noticed this thread at some point.

qsnoopyjr · July 2017

Lord wrote: »

Hello,
Every day I find bots in different parts of Tamriel.
The bots are ruining the game's economy.
ZOS needs to do something about this.

Recent screenshots of bots farming south of Karthdar, Grahtwood, PC Europe server(NO naming & shaming, UI is hidden):

The bots are still there
Server: PC EU
Bots count: over 40+
Please stop them and implement anti bot system @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_GinaBruno

One person with multiple accounts, boxing all of them.
You have players in World of Warcraft that 32 box. They do raids all by themselves.

Nothing wrong with boxing.

ookami007 · July 2017

Winter is Co.... I mean... Bots are Coming...