Balance suggestions for update 3.1 (PvP)

Ragnaroek93 · July 2017

Hello everyone,
I want to make some suggestions about balance for the next update. First of all I want to say that I like many of the changes, especially the changes to traits and mundus stones, making up for more diversity. For PvP actually I see some trouble and that's why I want to make some suggestions on how to balance the game (PvP wise).

Procs
Let us first take a look at procs in general. I don't think the proc set nerfs are enough, I would like to see all strong proc sets (Selene, Tremoscale, Skoria, etc.) turned into dots and more counterplay introduce to avoid them at all.
The next two damage procs which are making trouble are the oblivion enchant and the axebleed. Oblivion enchant should be affected by Battlespirit because you can make ridiculous builds around this enchant. Also cutting the damage from shieldbreaker into half sounds fair to me.
Axebleeds should get the proc set treatment, turning off critical hits and also remove the part there they ignore your whole armor (right now bleed stacking is part of dueling meta builds because it's so ridiculous strong, one axebleed tick crit deals more damage than a viper proc, just look at the damage when all three ticks crit, that's just too LOL).

Overperforming sets
Basically most of the meta proc sets (not talking about sets like Ashen Grip, they aren't viable in their current state and need a rework anyways) should get the viper treatment like mentioned above.

Next lets take a look at the heavy armor sets. The big three sets I see on heavy armor are Fury, Seventh Legion and Ravager (all three are meta for heavy armor builds and almost every heavy armor stamina duellbuild uses at least one of them). I don't think that this is how balance looks like, when heavy armor sets actually increase damage more than medium armor and light armor. I used Seventh Legion and Fury in duels (so only one person was hitting me, not more) and had 4,7k weapondamage on average during the whole fight. The uptime is so much better than Alchemist and I would even consider Alchemist as a bit too strong.

Now look at light armor sets. The troublemaking sets in my opinion are Necropotence, Amberplasm and Alteration Mastery.
Necropotence is not too good in terms of stats that it gives but it's too good because of the absurd scaling on shields with max magicka. A simple change (that wouldn't affect PvE) would be turning the 5p bonus from max magicka into around 400 spelldamage and turning one of the three one piece boni into magicka regen or crit. This would prevent unkillable shield builds who still have tons of burst through max magicka stacking like my screenshot above*. If Necropotence gets changed magicka Warden and magicka Nightblade need some buffs to compensate it.
Amberplasm just gives too much stats in the five piece set bonus. We could also give hundings rage 300 weapondamage and 300 magicka regen in the five piece set bonus or give Julianos 300 spelldamage and 300 stamina regen. Sounds ridiculous? It probably is, and so is Amberplasm. Reducing the 5p bonus to somehow 300 magicka regen and 150 stamina regen seems kinda fair, since bonepirate also got nerfed.
The last light armor set that comes to mind is Alteration Mastery. Just compare 6% cost reduction on everything with 8% cost reduction on magicka abilities from seducer. That's just a joke and I don't think that I need to explain why.

Looking at medium armor besides proc sets there is basically only one set that comes to my mind which is somehow cheesy and that's Shadowwalker on nightblades. There is basically no other medium armor set (except proc sets) that I see overperforming.

Armor changes
Let us first talk about light armor. Light armor has extremely strong shields if you can manage to build around high magicka. The problem here is clearly Necropotence and with the changes to the 2p set Shadow Rend basically everyone can get a high magicka pool resulting in absurdly strong shields. However, if it's not possible to stack absurdly high amounts of magicka to get strong shields magicka builds suffer extremely against snares and roots, which makes it easy to take them down when focused by more players. I would suggest to give light armor a passive that decreases the duration of roots and also decreases the effects of snares by 6% with each piece of light armor that you are wearing. That should help light armor builds in open world quite a bit to not get snared and rooted to death and allowing them to make better use of the environment (line of sight etc).
Magicka sorcerer might be needed to get tuned down a bit because the class could become too strong with light armor buffs.

Next thing is medium armor... This armor type seems pretty weak in terms of survivability and I basically only see nightblades running around with medium armor (in duels I pretty much don't see anyone who is tryharding using medium armor at all, I guess there is a reason for that), the weaknesses of medium armor just got completely overshaded by procs. The problem is that healing got strong nerfs over the last updates and that dodgeroll becomes more counters with every update (we now have 50-100k tooltip ultimates which completely ignore dodgeroll which is kinda ridiculous). I would suggest a 50% damage reduction and not being able to crit on medium armor builds while they are using dodgeroll (with abilities which ignore dodgeroll of course, the other abilities don't hit at all). It's just no fun to play an armor type then so many ultimates and also some spammable dps skills completely ignore the main defense of that armor type, it screws up the identity of medium armor.
Furthermore I think that medium armor needs to reduce the costs of dodgeroll more than it currently does. I have tested on PTS with the same build (5x Alchemist, 5x Hundings Rage, 3x Agility) one time in 5 medium, 1 light, 1 heavy and I was able to roll six times in a row ending up on about 40% max stamina. The same sets with 5 heavy armor, 1 medium, 1 light I tried to roll and was also able to roll six times in a row ending up on around 10% stamina. No well fitted pieces were used in any of these tests. I don't think it's fair, that heavy and light armor can roll almost as such as medium armor, if they just have the stamreg to do so. More cost reduction for medium armor would be great.
The problem with these changes is, that stamina nightblade might become a bit too strong (I don't really know, it's hard to test with the current patch) because of cloak. A nerf to cloak (not too much of course) would probably be fine and needed with medium armor buffs. Pretty much the same argument as magicka sorc with light armor buffs a few lines above.

I wouldn't change anything on heavy armor so far, except the changes mentioned above concerning sets.

Skills
Reverberating Bash: Change Major Defile to Minor Defile.
Restoration Ultimate: Tune this ultimate a bit down.
Axebleed passives: Mentioned above.
Soul Assault: Make it ticking less often, currently it costs 17k stamina to block it while I don't have any regen while I'm blocking it, that's just ridiculous. Turn down the damage done from this ability but make it somehow more effective against block and shieldspam.
Rally: Move this skill into Fighters Guild skill line to promote builds without a 2hand weapon in PvP, would bring more diversity into the game since Rally is basically a must have in PvP.
Undead: This passive is just ridiculous. Move it to vampire stage 4 and move that stealth passive into stage 3. Right now vampires in stage 3 don't have any downsides, Undead almost negates the damage increase you get from fire (if someone hits you from 100 -> 0 with only fire abilities). The only downside is pretty much getting hit by fire a lot and getting finished by an execute. These needs to change, vampire needs more downsides, especially against stamina chars. This changes wouldn't affect vampires who use their abilities actively but nerf vampires who just sit in stage 3 because of the free stats they get.

Class Balance
That's tough and very hard to balance without any win and lose statistics at all. After all I don't think the PvP balance between classes looks too bad, I would buff stamina Dk a bit, tune down cloak a bit, buff Warden a bit, buff magicka nightblade a bit (maybe let Blur remove snares like shuffle does?). That's really hard to say and not as clear as in PvE, just don't make too many changes in one patch.

Feel free to discuss.

Greetings

*My sorc on PTS:

TimeDazzler · July 2017

I still don't understand why Necropotence has more Magicka than Hulking Draugr's Stamina

WhiteMage · July 2017

I get what you're going for, but I think I disagree with many of the proposed solutions. It feels like you are thinking of how things play out with CP (particularly with that dodge roll example)--correct me if I'm wrong--and I think that is not the place to start with balancing. As for sets, I think the most diversity in any aspect of the game comes in how you build. I like strong sets, so long as they have sufficient conditions to balance their uptime/applicability with their power. For example, the shadow walker set. Wow is that set powerful. It has a tough condition, though, that limits widespread use to nightblades while making them leave themselves in more vulnerable positions than they might otherwise choose. "Skill" plays a major part in how much you can draw out of that set and I think it is excellently designed. Of course, sometimes I think it may too well synergize with particular mechanics, but in such a case, the mechanic should be addressed instead of nerfing the set.

Br1ckst0n · July 2017

Cries wrote: »

I still don't understand why Necropotence has more Magicka than Hulking Draugr's Stamina

because it has a condition in order to function

DeHei · July 2017

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Hello everyone,
I want to make some suggestions about balance for the next update. First of all I want to say that I like many of the changes, especially the changes to traits and mundus stones, making up for more diversity. For PvP actually I see some trouble and that's why I want to make some suggestions on how to balance the game (PvP wise).

Procs
Let us first take a look at procs in general. I don't think the proc set nerfs are enough, I would like to see all strong proc sets (Selene, Tremoscale, Skoria, etc.) turned into dots and more counterplay introduce to avoid them at all.
The next two damage procs which are making trouble are the oblivion enchant and the axebleed. Oblivion enchant should be affected by Battlespirit because you can make ridiculous builds around this enchant. Also cutting the damage from shieldbreaker into half sounds fair to me.
Axebleeds should get the proc set treatment, turning off critical hits and also remove the part there they ignore your whole armor (right now bleed stacking is part of dueling meta builds because it's so ridiculous strong, one axebleed tick crit deals more damage than a viper proc, just look at the damage when all three ticks crit, that's just too LOL).

Overperforming sets
Basically most of the meta proc sets (not talking about sets like Ashen Grip, they aren't viable in their current state and need a rework anyways) should get the viper treatment like mentioned above.

Next lets take a look at the heavy armor sets. The big three sets I see on heavy armor are Fury, Seventh Legion and Ravager (all three are meta for heavy armor builds and almost every heavy armor stamina duellbuild uses at least one of them). I don't think that this is how balance looks like, when heavy armor sets actually increase damage more than medium armor and light armor. I used Seventh Legion and Fury in duels (so only one person was hitting me, not more) and had 4,7k weapondamage on average during the whole fight. The uptime is so much better than Alchemist and I would even consider Alchemist as a bit too strong.

Now look at light armor sets. The troublemaking sets in my opinion are Necropotence, Amberplasm and Alteration Mastery.
Necropotence is not too good in terms of stats that it gives but it's too good because of the absurd scaling on shields with max magicka. A simple change (that wouldn't affect PvE) would be turning the 5p bonus from max magicka into around 400 spelldamage and turning one of the three one piece boni into magicka regen or crit. This would prevent unkillable shield builds who still have tons of burst through max magicka stacking like my screenshot above*. If Necropotence gets changed magicka Warden and magicka Nightblade need some buffs to compensate it.
Amberplasm just gives too much stats in the five piece set bonus. We could also give hundings rage 300 weapondamage and 300 magicka regen in the five piece set bonus or give Julianos 300 spelldamage and 300 stamina regen. Sounds ridiculous? It probably is, and so is Amberplasm. Reducing the 5p bonus to somehow 300 magicka regen and 150 stamina regen seems kinda fair, since bonepirate also got nerfed.
The last light armor set that comes to mind is Alteration Mastery. Just compare 6% cost reduction on everything with 8% cost reduction on magicka abilities from seducer. That's just a joke and I don't think that I need to explain why.

Looking at medium armor besides proc sets there is basically only one set that comes to my mind which is somehow cheesy and that's Shadowwalker on nightblades. There is basically no other medium armor set (except proc sets) that I see overperforming.

Armor changes
Let us first talk about light armor. Light armor has extremely strong shields if you can manage to build around high magicka. The problem here is clearly Necropotence and with the changes to the 2p set Shadow Rend basically everyone can get a high magicka pool resulting in absurdly strong shields. However, if it's not possible to stack absurdly high amounts of magicka to get strong shields magicka builds suffer extremely against snares and roots, which makes it easy to take them down when focused by more players. I would suggest to give light armor a passive that decreases the duration of roots and also decreases the effects of snares by 6% with each piece of light armor that you are wearing. That should help light armor builds in open world quite a bit to not get snared and rooted to death and allowing them to make better use of the environment (line of sight etc).
Magicka sorcerer might be needed to get tuned down a bit because the class could become too strong with light armor buffs.

Next thing is medium armor... This armor type seems pretty weak in terms of survivability and I basically only see nightblades running around with medium armor (in duels I pretty much don't see anyone who is tryharding using medium armor at all, I guess there is a reason for that), the weaknesses of medium armor just got completely overshaded by procs. The problem is that healing got strong nerfs over the last updates and that dodgeroll becomes more counters with every update (we now have 50-100k tooltip ultimates which completely ignore dodgeroll which is kinda ridiculous). I would suggest a 50% damage reduction and not being able to crit on medium armor builds while they are using dodgeroll (with abilities which ignore dodgeroll of course, the other abilities don't hit at all). It's just no fun to play an armor type then so many ultimates and also some spammable dps skills completely ignore the main defense of that armor type, it screws up the identity of medium armor.
Furthermore I think that medium armor needs to reduce the costs of dodgeroll more than it currently does. I have tested on PTS with the same build (5x Alchemist, 5x Hundings Rage, 3x Agility) one time in 5 medium, 1 light, 1 heavy and I was able to roll six times in a row ending up on about 40% max stamina. The same sets with 5 heavy armor, 1 medium, 1 light I tried to roll and was also able to roll six times in a row ending up on around 10% stamina. No well fitted pieces were used in any of these tests. I don't think it's fair, that heavy and light armor can roll almost as such as medium armor, if they just have the stamreg to do so. More cost reduction for medium armor would be great.
The problem with these changes is, that stamina nightblade might become a bit too strong (I don't really know, it's hard to test with the current patch) because of cloak. A nerf to cloak (not too much of course) would probably be fine and needed with medium armor buffs. Pretty much the same argument as magicka sorc with light armor buffs a few lines above.

I wouldn't change anything on heavy armor so far, except the changes mentioned above concerning sets.

Skills
Reverberating Bash: Change Major Defile to Minor Defile.
Restoration Ultimate: Tune this ultimate a bit down.
Axebleed passives: Mentioned above.
Soul Assault: Make it ticking less often, currently it costs 17k stamina to block it while I don't have any regen while I'm blocking it, that's just ridiculous. Turn down the damage done from this ability but make it somehow more effective against block and shieldspam.
Rally: Move this skill into Fighters Guild skill line to promote builds without a 2hand weapon in PvP, would bring more diversity into the game since Rally is basically a must have in PvP.
Undead: This passive is just ridiculous. Move it to vampire stage 4 and move that stealth passive into stage 3. Right now vampires in stage 3 don't have any downsides, Undead almost negates the damage increase you get from fire (if someone hits you from 100 -> 0 with only fire abilities). The only downside is pretty much getting hit by fire a lot and getting finished by an execute. These needs to change, vampire needs more downsides, especially against stamina chars. This changes wouldn't affect vampires who use their abilities actively but nerf vampires who just sit in stage 3 because of the free stats they get.

Class Balance
That's tough and very hard to balance without any win and lose statistics at all. After all I don't think the PvP balance between classes looks too bad, I would buff stamina Dk a bit, tune down cloak a bit, buff Warden a bit, buff magicka nightblade a bit (maybe let Blur remove snares like shuffle does?). That's really hard to say and not as clear as in PvE, just don't make too many changes in one patch.

Feel free to discuss.

Greetings

*My sorc on PTS:

Well spoken my friend. There are many points i tptally agree like heavy armor which increase damage much more then medium armor. Nekropotence is really to strong, nearly everybody is using shields. For example i replaced my Templar burstheal Honor the dead for healing ward, because it scaled much better with other healing effects..
On the other hand here my opinion whats wrong: There are 2 reasons why everybody say that Nightblades are to strong. Cloak was a problem with proccsets, right, but this a main attribut or strenght from nightblades, so dont touch it pls. The real problem are the low cost single target ult which make good damage, stun target, give buffs and increase the following damage for 20%! Wtf 20%, for what?
After that you get will of assassination in your face. I allready got a 16,8k krit in PvP. I was killed just from 2 skills. This skill s are so powerful, that magicka nightblades use them too!
But against a permablocker or reflect build nightblades get trouble, here they need maybe dots and not just attacks for direct damage and buffs...

Classbalance they can easy reach, when they rework all this useless skills.

Templar need for example a hard CC like stun like they had. For example give us the blazing spear stun back and make the other morph to a stamina one with same effect. Templar healer dont use only tge spear for support, because they can only place just 1. They spam orbs together with 1 spear, but they dont need the other morph! Or change other useless skills here. Dark flare need lower damage and for that no cast time and there are solar barrage, healing ritual... wtf who uses these skils?

Warden need some skills who can morphed to damage and work with the highest ressourcepool and weapon/spelldamage. This is possible from tankskilltree.
I dont agree, that he has to less CC, he is fine there. 1 more option maybe, but i dont see this.

DKs need a spammable skill for Stamina. But i think they are fine. Maybe actually the most balanced class.

Sorcs on magicka are really strong, on Stamina they need a little buff, but i dont know them enough to know where they needed something other. Here a stamina sorc should enter the discussion.
They have so much damage and CC options and other classes would like to have just the half of hard CC possibilitys.

Thats all

Murador178 · July 2017

Completely agree on what the OP says. These changes would nerf alot of gimmick things like my 60k magicka shadowrend/necro sorc or torugs pact obilvion spam/sb.

I'd just add:

make dw hit harder again on mag chars - its boring that every mag nb/sorc runs a staff. Ontop of that concealed needs a buff - the spell is melee and still weaker than swallow soul. Costing a ton of magicka and doing a bit more dmg only working in melee range doesnt sound like a good trade. Ontop of that firestaff gets more extra % damage than doulwield with an alot higher hitting light attacks.

DeHei · July 2017

Murador178 wrote: »

Completely agree on what the OP says. These changes would nerf alot of gimmick things like my 60k magicka shadowrend/necro sorc or torugs pact obilvion spam/sb.

I'd just add:

make dw hit harder again on mag chars - its boring that every mag nb/sorc runs a staff. Ontop of that concealed needs a buff - the spell is melee and still weaker than swallow soul. Costing a ton of magicka and doing a bit more dmg only working in melee range doesnt sound like a good trade. Ontop of that firestaff gets more extra % damage than doulwield with an alot higher hitting light attacks.

DW with this amazing bleeding effect hits hard like hell. "Make dw hits harder again on mag chars"??? Probably you should test it more and you will see that dw is strong enough. You can use the refreshing trap and the magicka enemies are rooted very often.

Murador178 · July 2017

DeHei wrote: »

Murador178 wrote: »

Completely agree on what the OP says. These changes would nerf alot of gimmick things like my 60k magicka shadowrend/necro sorc or torugs pact obilvion spam/sb.

I'd just add:

make dw hit harder again on mag chars - its boring that every mag nb/sorc runs a staff. Ontop of that concealed needs a buff - the spell is melee and still weaker than swallow soul. Costing a ton of magicka and doing a bit more dmg only working in melee range doesnt sound like a good trade. Ontop of that firestaff gets more extra % damage than doulwield with an alot higher hitting light attacks.

DW with this amazing bleeding effect hits hard like hell. "Make dw hits harder again on mag chars"??? Probably you should test it more and you will see that dw is strong enough. You can use the refreshing trap and the magicka enemies are rooted very often.

did u read the on MAG(=magicka) part or the concealed part? Axes are completely broken on stam but they scale with weapondmg and stam: How many mag nightblades or sorcs do u see running dw?

PS: i also got a 3 axe fury legion trollking nb- i know what axes do on heavy armor tanks....

BohnT · July 2017

Very good change ideas but i have a few issues with certain things.
1. cloak has to work properly to be nerfed. Right now it is russian roulette to use, cloak, if it works it is very powerful but right now it just breaks on so many things that it's your last ability you use before being killed because something just Pullis you out of cloak.
2. The 1h&s ult needs a nerf, either a reduced duration or a increased cost. It is way too strong in its current form
3. the lich set needs to be nerfed aswell, it gives any user almost unlimited magicka sustain for 20 seconds and for magicka builds this means invincibility in a 1v1 scenario because of shields and healing
4. In my opinion stamnb is balanced without procs the burst is high but without procs you have to give up too much survivability to burst down defensive setups. I have a bigger problem with stamsorcs, they are still the stam kings for pvp because of cheap ulti, high mobility, good heals, nice defence and good sustain combined with strong burst.
5. Implosion should get the proc set treatment and be changed into a dot over 6 seconds
6. The Xv1 tools should be nerfed. Things like: Snipe, jesus beam, soul assault, roots, dive, curse, mage's wrath, chains, lotus fan need to be nerfed a bit to hinder their crazy Xv1 capabilities

Lord_Eomer · July 2017

Cries wrote: »

I still don't understand why Necropotence has more Magicka than Hulking Draugr's Stamina

You have to keep pet alive on both bars.

i do not think this set nerf! because pets are jolk in PVP.

You did heav attack pet ran toward target and got killed. Do you think you can summon another pet? this is hitting most Sorc PVE builds

OP need to really learn about things before posting such poison!

Amberplasm is not over performing, hardly people uses and magicka recovery bonus equivalent like Bone Pirates gives for stamina (this set need nerf too if amberplasm got hammer) and Alternation Mastery set benefit builds in multiple ways, its good for hybrid builds and need no nerf!

I started hating forum for such nerfs! nerfs! posts!

I doubt mage blades performing better than Stam Blades! you just need to see good stam blade in action!

Murador178 · July 2017

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Cries wrote: »

I still don't understand why Necropotence has more Magicka than Hulking Draugr's Stamina

You have keep pet alive on both bars.

i do not think this set nerf! because pets are jolk in PVP.

You did heav attack pet ran toward target and got killed. Do you think you can summon another pet? this is hitting most Sorc PVE builds

OP need to really learn about things before posting such poison!

Amberplasm is not over performing, hardly people uses and magicka recovery bonus equivalent like Bone Pirates gives for stamina (this set need nerf too if amberplasm got hammer) and Alternation Mastery set benefit builds in multiple ways, its good for hybrid builds and need no nerf!

I started hating forum for such nerfs! nerfs! posts!

I doubt mage blades performing better than Stam Blades! you just need to see good stam blade in action!

Pve player train arriving

. I 'd just change the magicka to spelldmg on the 5 piece - reducing the ridicolous shields on pet sorcs -not nerfing the PvE dps and PvP burst.

SodanTok · July 2017

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Cries wrote: »

I still don't understand why Necropotence has more Magicka than Hulking Draugr's Stamina

You have keep pet alive on both bars.

i do not think this set nerf! because pets are jolk in PVP.

You did heav attack pet ran toward target and got killed. Do you think you can summon another pet? this is hitting most Sorc PVE builds

OP need to really learn about things before posting such poison!

Amberplasm is not over performing, hardly people uses and magicka recovery bonus equivalent like Bone Pirates gives for stamina (this set need nerf too if amberplasm got hammer) and Alternation Mastery set benefit builds in multiple ways, its good for hybrid builds and need no nerf!

I started hating forum for such nerfs! nerfs! posts!

I doubt mage blades performing better than Stam Blades! you just need to see good stam blade in action!

I think you missed the part where Bone Pirate was nerfed in Morrowind (150regen now). The 5piece is now worth 3set bonuses while having requirement of using drink. Amber is worth 4.65 set bonuses without any requirement. Amber could use nerf on one of the regens there, but it does not really matter. However, bone pirate is just fine now.

Lord_Eomer · July 2017

SodanTok wrote: »

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Cries wrote: »

I still don't understand why Necropotence has more Magicka than Hulking Draugr's Stamina

You have keep pet alive on both bars.

i do not think this set nerf! because pets are jolk in PVP.

You did heav attack pet ran toward target and got killed. Do you think you can summon another pet? this is hitting most Sorc PVE builds

OP need to really learn about things before posting such poison!

Amberplasm is not over performing, hardly people uses and magicka recovery bonus equivalent like Bone Pirates gives for stamina (this set need nerf too if amberplasm got hammer) and Alternation Mastery set benefit builds in multiple ways, its good for hybrid builds and need no nerf!

I started hating forum for such nerfs! nerfs! posts!

I doubt mage blades performing better than Stam Blades! you just need to see good stam blade in action!

I think you missed the part where Bone Pirate was nerfed in Morrowind (150regen now). The 5piece is now worth 3set bonuses while having requirement of using drink. Amber is worth 4.65 set bonuses without any requirement. Amber could use nerf on one of the regens there, but it does not really matter. However, bone pirate is just fine now.

Bone pirate gives 279 stamina recovery with lot of stamina comparing, even amberplasm is a joke.

Amberplasm gives stam so mages can cc break its not like they have huge stam polls or zos simply change cc break cost magicka for mages

Throne drink gives lot of recovery and putting 1x health glyph or cyrodil 5k health buff works well!

tplink3r1 · July 2017

Why nerf Skoria? It isn't strong at all.

SodanTok · July 2017

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Cries wrote: »

I still don't understand why Necropotence has more Magicka than Hulking Draugr's Stamina

You have keep pet alive on both bars.

i do not think this set nerf! because pets are jolk in PVP.

You did heav attack pet ran toward target and got killed. Do you think you can summon another pet? this is hitting most Sorc PVE builds

OP need to really learn about things before posting such poison!

Amberplasm is not over performing, hardly people uses and magicka recovery bonus equivalent like Bone Pirates gives for stamina (this set need nerf too if amberplasm got hammer) and Alternation Mastery set benefit builds in multiple ways, its good for hybrid builds and need no nerf!

I started hating forum for such nerfs! nerfs! posts!

I doubt mage blades performing better than Stam Blades! you just need to see good stam blade in action!

I think you missed the part where Bone Pirate was nerfed in Morrowind (150regen now). The 5piece is now worth 3set bonuses while having requirement of using drink. Amber is worth 4.65 set bonuses without any requirement. Amber could use nerf on one of the regens there, but it does not really matter. However, bone pirate is just fine now.

Bone pirate gives 279 stamina recovery with lot of stamina comparing, even amberplasm is a jolk.

Amberplasm gives stam so mages can cc break its not like they have huge stam polls or zos simply change cc break cost magicka for mages

Throne drink gives lot of recovery and putting 1x health glyph or cyrodil 5k health buff works well!

You keep saying jolk I dont know what you mean, but if by some chance you mean joke and you think amberplasm is actually worse than bone pirate then joke is on you

Derra · July 2017

The proposed necro change would severely affect pve as pets only scale on max magica.

DeHei · July 2017

Murador178 wrote: »

DeHei wrote: »

Murador178 wrote: »

Completely agree on what the OP says. These changes would nerf alot of gimmick things like my 60k magicka shadowrend/necro sorc or torugs pact obilvion spam/sb.

I'd just add:

make dw hit harder again on mag chars - its boring that every mag nb/sorc runs a staff. Ontop of that concealed needs a buff - the spell is melee and still weaker than swallow soul. Costing a ton of magicka and doing a bit more dmg only working in melee range doesnt sound like a good trade. Ontop of that firestaff gets more extra % damage than doulwield with an alot higher hitting light attacks.

DW with this amazing bleeding effect hits hard like hell. "Make dw hits harder again on mag chars"??? Probably you should test it more and you will see that dw is strong enough. You can use the refreshing trap and the magicka enemies are rooted very often.

did u read the on MAG(=magicka) part or the concealed part? Axes are completely broken on stam but they scale with weapondmg and stam: How many mag nightblades or sorcs do u see running dw?

PS: i also got a 3 axe fury legion trollking nb- i know what axes do on heavy armor tanks....

Bleeding effects from Axes are to strong! We dont need to discutate that. I totally agree the OP, that Magickastacking is to strong.

Lets look on Magicka Warden and look that he can reach nearly 60k Magicka with:
Wearing more light armor parts, Inner light 5%, his ultimate 8%, other mages guild skills, Magicka mundus, attributes and all items on magicka.
I dont want to know if a guy like this become emperor.. Wtf 100k Magicka?

Skander · July 2017

New Shadowrend will certainly be constant on proc: Shadowrend is unkillable so necropotence would be up for the whole duration. That's scary. Becouse sorcs now can slot 2 more skills, per bar. Instead of being stuck with pets

Lord_Eomer · July 2017

SodanTok wrote: »

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Cries wrote: »

I still don't understand why Necropotence has more Magicka than Hulking Draugr's Stamina

You have keep pet alive on both bars.

i do not think this set nerf! because pets are jolk in PVP.

You did heav attack pet ran toward target and got killed. Do you think you can summon another pet? this is hitting most Sorc PVE builds

OP need to really learn about things before posting such poison!

Amberplasm is not over performing, hardly people uses and magicka recovery bonus equivalent like Bone Pirates gives for stamina (this set need nerf too if amberplasm got hammer) and Alternation Mastery set benefit builds in multiple ways, its good for hybrid builds and need no nerf!

I started hating forum for such nerfs! nerfs! posts!

I doubt mage blades performing better than Stam Blades! you just need to see good stam blade in action!

I think you missed the part where Bone Pirate was nerfed in Morrowind (150regen now). The 5piece is now worth 3set bonuses while having requirement of using drink. Amber is worth 4.65 set bonuses without any requirement. Amber could use nerf on one of the regens there, but it does not really matter. However, bone pirate is just fine now.

Bone pirate gives 279 stamina recovery with lot of stamina comparing, even amberplasm is a jolk.

Amberplasm gives stam so mages can cc break its not like they have huge stam polls or zos simply change cc break cost magicka for mages

Throne drink gives lot of recovery and putting 1x health glyph or cyrodil 5k health buff works well!

You keep saying jolk I dont know what you mean, but if by some chance you mean joke and you think amberplasm is actually worse than bone pirate then joke is on you

You think, bone pirate set is not over performing comparing Amberplasm?

Every 2nd stam pvp character is using this set!

DDuke · July 2017

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Cries wrote: »

I still don't understand why Necropotence has more Magicka than Hulking Draugr's Stamina

You have keep pet alive on both bars.

i do not think this set nerf! because pets are jolk in PVP.

You did heav attack pet ran toward target and got killed. Do you think you can summon another pet? this is hitting most Sorc PVE builds

OP need to really learn about things before posting such poison!

Amberplasm is not over performing, hardly people uses and magicka recovery bonus equivalent like Bone Pirates gives for stamina (this set need nerf too if amberplasm got hammer) and Alternation Mastery set benefit builds in multiple ways, its good for hybrid builds and need no nerf!

I started hating forum for such nerfs! nerfs! posts!

I doubt mage blades performing better than Stam Blades! you just need to see good stam blade in action!

I think you missed the part where Bone Pirate was nerfed in Morrowind (150regen now). The 5piece is now worth 3set bonuses while having requirement of using drink. Amber is worth 4.65 set bonuses without any requirement. Amber could use nerf on one of the regens there, but it does not really matter. However, bone pirate is just fine now.

Bone pirate gives 279 stamina recovery with lot of stamina comparing, even amberplasm is a jolk.

Amberplasm gives stam so mages can cc break its not like they have huge stam polls or zos simply change cc break cost magicka for mages

Throne drink gives lot of recovery and putting 1x health glyph or cyrodil 5k health buff works well!

You keep saying jolk I dont know what you mean, but if by some chance you mean joke and you think amberplasm is actually worse than bone pirate then joke is on you

You think, bone pirate set is not over performing comparing Amberplasm?

Every 2nd stam pvp character is using this set!

Is that so? No wonder they're so farmable then.

300 stamina and magicka regen vs 279 stamina regen
967 magicka, 129 spell damage & 3.2% crit (avg. 4%~ dmg) vs 3934 stamina (avg. 4.8% dmg)

in which universe would you trade over 2 set bonuses worth of regen for a marginal 0.8% dmg increase?

That's without really diving into how magicka has much better modifiers and thus the stam set bonuses fall even further behind in comparison.

With the upcoming Flame Blossom set, magicka will even have significantly stronger proc sets than stamina... (33% higher tooltip than Viper and AoE).

Thogard · July 2017

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Cries wrote: »

I still don't understand why Necropotence has more Magicka than Hulking Draugr's Stamina

You have keep pet alive on both bars.

i do not think this set nerf! because pets are jolk in PVP.

You did heav attack pet ran toward target and got killed. Do you think you can summon another pet? this is hitting most Sorc PVE builds

OP need to really learn about things before posting such poison!

Amberplasm is not over performing, hardly people uses and magicka recovery bonus equivalent like Bone Pirates gives for stamina (this set need nerf too if amberplasm got hammer) and Alternation Mastery set benefit builds in multiple ways, its good for hybrid builds and need no nerf!

I started hating forum for such nerfs! nerfs! posts!

I doubt mage blades performing better than Stam Blades! you just need to see good stam blade in action!

I think you missed the part where Bone Pirate was nerfed in Morrowind (150regen now). The 5piece is now worth 3set bonuses while having requirement of using drink. Amber is worth 4.65 set bonuses without any requirement. Amber could use nerf on one of the regens there, but it does not really matter. However, bone pirate is just fine now.

Bone pirate gives 279 stamina recovery with lot of stamina comparing, even amberplasm is a jolk.

Amberplasm gives stam so mages can cc break its not like they have huge stam polls or zos simply change cc break cost magicka for mages

Throne drink gives lot of recovery and putting 1x health glyph or cyrodil 5k health buff works well!

You keep saying jolk I dont know what you mean, but if by some chance you mean joke and you think amberplasm is actually worse than bone pirate then joke is on you

You think, bone pirate set is not over performing comparing Amberplasm?

Every 2nd stam pvp character is using this set!

Not really... it's medium, so if you use it and viper you'd be in full medium armor and therefore be quite squishy. As it stands, viper > bone pirate. You can get the sustain from other sources.

After this patch, I can see more people picking up bone pirate for their medium piece, but with the buff on stats in the 2-4 slots for everything, the big chunk at the end won't be as noticeable.

Derra · July 2017

Skander wrote: »

New Shadowrend will certainly be constant on proc: Shadowrend is unkillable so necropotence would be up for the whole duration. That's scary. Becouse sorcs now can slot 2 more skills, per bar. Instead of being stuck with pets

Everyone can. It´s not only sorcs. It´s templar and DK aswell that are being enabled to have shields comparable to magblade/sorc.

ak_pvp · July 2017

Don't nerf necro.

Nerf shields, or shield stacking instead.

GeorgeBlack · July 2017

I kinda agree.

Waffennacht · July 2017

Nerf everything magicka! And make proc sets dots cuz that'll make it even

Sandman929 · July 2017

Skander wrote: »

New Shadowrend will certainly be constant on proc: Shadowrend is unkillable so necropotence would be up for the whole duration. That's scary. Becouse sorcs now can slot 2 more skills, per bar. Instead of being stuck with pets

Agreed. The changes to Shadowrend seem pretty significant...though I'm actually looking forward to trying out my petplar or petknight.

Joy_Division · July 2017

Agree:

Necropotance is a no brainer for any magicka build that can slot a pet.
Light armor movement buffs would be convenient; however, this seems out of place as mobility is a stamina advantage and should remain so. I do think light armor should have the option to get mobility, but that should be something the user must invest in rather than be given it for free (IMHO anything that goes beyond the normal strengths/weakness of a class or spec should require an investment)
Heavy armor "berserker" sets are strong. I think the "beserek" archetype should be a thing, perhaps making medium and light sets catering to that playstyle is ideal ("beserkers" didn't run around in plate armor!)
Oblivion enchants
Reverb Bash: major defile is extremely strong - especially in CP campaigns where it is amped by a lot - and should not be trivial to apply with a spammable.
Soul Assault: although I don't die to this ... pretty much ever (I just block and heal) ... I do think the mechanic is dumb. As a defender *and* attacker, I would prefer it to be reworked entirely

Not Sure:

Axe, Skoria, Selenes, "procs," etc.: there is a fine line between making them useful and nerfing them such that they are not viable options. For a long time axes and Skoria were trash and it was very frustrating for these to be in the game, intended as rewards, and stink. If stuff is useful, they are going to appear on death-recaps and players are going to get mad because they died to them. Player death is necessary. Useful and people dying do not make something OP or needing a nerf. They have less weapon damage, less resource management, dispensing with other options and making a bet on that proc is worth it. Every night I log into Cyrodiil, I have to deal with the Selenes set and while it is effective, I do not feel disadvantaged competing against someone wearing it
Rally: Dual wield has potentially good heals and blade cloak is good mitigation already to go along with an extra armor piece bonus. Also the Mage's guild counterpart, Degeneration, would be feeble
Resto ultimate: It's really good, but the restoration staff is so bad, I would like to see the weapon and its skills, especially the crappy force siphon, reevaluated before just nerfing it.

Diagree:

Just because sets are meta and useful, doesn't mean they need to be toned down. Amberplasm and alteration mastery are fine, espeically in light of the Morrowind nerfs to sustain.
Undead: if you want to move it to stage 4, that's fine. You are underestimating the downsides to being a vampire: the 25% fire damage is a very real thing, especially with all the left-click Coldharbour heroes out there and all the Inferno Eye of the Storms. Getting hit with Dawnbreaker (what stam users loved before it was bugged by dodge and will love again next patch) as a vamp sucks.

I do think medium armor needs a rework, but more so because of ZoS's dubious decision to allow non channeled skills like Cliffracer to bypass the defense. What you want to do compounds the problem . Dodge roll was viable before ZoS allowed such nonsense, so now it will over-perform against stuff it was once viable against, yet still wind up taking damage against attacks it shouldn't. It would be easier and better to revert the "this ability cannot be dodged" property to non-channeled attacks and rework the Soul Assault ultimate.

I think it is a mischaracterization to say " Light armor has extremely strong shields" and use that as a basis for comparison when discussing medium armors woes. Light armor does not have extremely strong shields. It requires skills (and thus opportunity costs) and is not universally true. My templar has a terrible class shield that scales off health and no in-class magicka amp. Harness is an OK shield, but that's all it is and besides, harness does not synergize with the sword & board and the benefits of the average shield are ambiguous with what we'd lose in the skill that shield would replace (such as Repentance). It's why a lot of DKs and Templars use sword and shield + healing as their primary means of defense and play very differently than sorcerers (and to a lesser degree nightblades).

Dodge already ignores most of the attacks in the game. I get it that it's frustrating to get spammed by birds (it's not like my sword and shield templar has more appealing options: useless stand still blocking a be like a victim in the old Hitchcock movie "The Birds" is a counter), but it still 100% avoids most of the attacks on a player's ability bar and it is equally frustrating when players dodge away with impunity, where the only "counters" have their damage reduced by 50% and can't crit. I don't even want to think about how such mitigation can be combined with cloak (+ the guaranteed crit vigor heals). Especially when the justification is because of the dumb Cliffracer skill (which the vast majority of players do not have) and the perception that light armor players are all running around with extremely strong shields when that is by no means the case.

So what I would rather see happen is to rework the Cliff racer skill such that it's big appeal is that it does something else besides ignore dodge. Which is fine because Wardens already have a skill in shalk that can hit dodge rollers. I also would agree a cheaper cost for dodge roll is something whose time has come.

tossop · July 2017

after proc sets nerf i think shield stackers become even more powerfull next patch. Proc sets was very good vs shields but not much good vs heavy armored tanks. Maybe little nerf to shield strenght will help with bring down those shield stackers. Shields scaling very good with stat. I dont want see sorc or any other mag class with 50k magicka with infused oblivion enchant. Time to reroll.

Gan Xing · July 2017

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Hello everyone,

Axebleeds should get the proc set treatment, turning off critical hits and also remove the part there they ignore your whole armor (right now bleed stacking is part of dueling meta builds because it's so ridiculous strong, one axebleed tick crit deals more damage than a viper proc, just look at the damage when all three ticks crit, that's just too LOL).

I don't think the devs heard you on this... clearly they thought we need 2 sets that boosts bleeding

Blooddrinker (Medium)
(2) Weapon Critical
(3) Weapon Damage
(4) Weapon Critical(5) Increases the damage you deal with bleed damage over time effects by 20%.

Pillar of Nirn (Medium)
(2) Max Stamina
(3) Weapon Critical
(4) Weapon Damage
(5) When you deal damage, you have a 10% chance to create a fissure underneath the enemy after 1 second, dealing 2,000 Physical Damage to all enemies within 2.5 meters and causing them to bleed for an additional 8,000 Physical Damage over 10 seconds. This effect can occur once every 10 seconds.

I tested with Krag'h, and it is quite powerful. Expect some nerfs to these sets tho

tossop · July 2017

bleed is uselles vs blocking, shields.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · July 2017

tsopoci wrote: »

bleed is uselles vs blocking, shields.

This is simply not true, beased on everything I have seen, you have some evidence to back this up?