Wizards reposte needs to be toned down i feel.
Update 46 is now available for testing on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/676794
-
Rianai✭✭✭✭✭
✭GrumpyDuckling wrote: »
Why are you ignoring Major Brutality and Major Sorcery? 20% extra weapon and spell damage is a lot too.
The game is kinda balanced arround perma Major Sorcery/Brutality. There are plenty of different sources of those buffs for everyone and all can grant 100% uptime. It is different for Minor maim. Access to this debuff used to be much more limited. Until Wizard's Riposte ...
3 -
GrumpyDuckling✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
The game is kinda balanced arround perma Major Sorcery/Brutality. There are plenty of different sources of those buffs for everyone and all can grant 100% uptime. It is different for Minor maim. Access to this debuff used to be much more limited. Until Wizard's Riposte ...
Where did ZOS say that PVP is "kinda balanced around perma Major Sorcery/Brutality?"1 -
Rianai✭✭✭✭✭
✭GrumpyDuckling wrote: »
Where did ZOS say that PVP is "kinda balanced around perma Major Sorcery/Brutality?"
They did not say that, but if they didn't want everyone to run arround with Major Sorcery/Brutality they wouldn't implement so many different sources of those buffs that allow perma uptime for everyone. And all of those buff sources are roughly equal, because all of them grant easily 100% uptime. But Wizard's riposte outperforms all other sources of Minor Maim and it outperforms all other defensive sets (except for maybe a few niche situations, but overall there isn't much competition).
Even if the Minor Maim duration applied by the set would be lower by a pretty significant margin, it would be still very strong. And if something would be strong even after significant nerfs, how can it not be op?Edited by Rianai on July 14, 2017 10:28AM0 -
Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭GrumpyDuckling wrote: »
Why are you ignoring Major Brutality and Major Sorcery? 20% extra weapon and spell damage is a lot too.
Why are you ignoring that 20% weapon/spell damage =/= +20% more damage done?
People go batsh*t for minor berserk, which is +8% dmg done. 15% dmg loss is huge, especially with possible 100% uptime on multiple targets.
Edit: to add to that, people grind to no end to get that divines or sharpened trait that gives them a tiny percentage of better stats and damage. I'm not saying major maim is op, but having 15s major debuff on multiple targets with the possibility to have a 100% uptime needs to be looked at in the light of those things. If the duration gets shortened it will still be viable against ganks etc. Especially with the upcoming proc set changes.Edited by Chilly-McFreeze on July 14, 2017 12:59PM0 -
GrumpyDuckling✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
They did not say that, but if they didn't want everyone to run arround with Major Sorcery/Brutality they wouldn't implement so many different sources of those buffs that allow perma uptime for everyone. And all of those buff sources are roughly equal, because all of them grant easily 100% uptime. But Wizard's riposte outperforms all other sources of Minor Maim and it outperforms all other defensive sets (except for maybe a few niche situations, but overall there isn't much competition).
Even if the Minor Maim duration applied by the set would be lower by a pretty significant margin, it would be still very strong. And if something would be strong even after significant nerfs, how can it not be op?
This post shows the need for Wizard's Reposte to stay the same, and for better accessibility across the board for Minor Maim. ZOS' changes to CP (making everything have a counter) show that they want counters in this game. Wizard's Reposte is a great first step in the direction of counterbalance for damage buffs. The next step might be to put maim into a guild skill line so every class has access to it.0 -
DHale✭✭✭✭✭
✭Lamenpost.comSorcerna, proud beta sorc. RIP April 2014 to May 31 2016 DArk Brotherhood. Out of retirement for negates and encases. Sorcerna will be going back into retirement to be my main crafter Fall 2018. Because an 8 k shield is f ing useless. Died because of baddies on the forum. Too much qq too little pew pew. 16 AD 2 DC. 0 EP cause they bad, CP 2300 plus 18 level 50 toons. NA, PC, Grey Host#SORCLIVESMATTER actually they don’t or they wouldn’t keep getting nerfed constantly.0 -
Destyran✭✭✭✭✭GrumpyDuckling wrote: »
This post shows the need for Wizard's Reposte to stay the same, and for better accessibility across the board for Minor Maim. ZOS' changes to CP (making everything have a counter) show that they want counters in this game. Wizard's Reposte is a great first step in the direction of counterbalance for damage buffs. The next step might be to put maim into a guild skill line so every class has access to it.
Look mate i wasent going to say it but 5 wizards reposte and 5 impregnable makes ppl invincible in a zerg they can all have 30k+ health and all time ulti. No just no it needs a downside to procing1 -
GrumpyDuckling✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
Look mate i wasent going to say it but 5 wizards reposte and 5 impregnable makes ppl invincible in a zerg they can all have 30k+ health and all time ulti. No just no it needs a downside to procing
With zerg logic you can make a case to nerf almost anything. I could just as easily say, "Everyone in the zerg is running 5 Juggernaut and 5 Meridia's Blessed. Everyone is invincible. Those sets must be OP."1 -
IxskullzxI✭✭✭✭
Look mate i wasent going to say it but 5 wizards reposte and 5 impregnable makes ppl invincible in a zerg they can all have 30k+ health and all time ulti. No just no it needs a downside to procing
Yeah definitely shouldnt balance the game around zerged, friend.#HowDoYouLikeYourDK?1 -
Emma_Overload✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭These posts are hilarious. I've tested this set on my Magicka Sorc, and it's weak AF compared to Reactive, which delivers massive damage reduction right when you need it most, when you're knocked down. But you don't hear anybody calling for Reactive to be nerfed, do you? Probably because the forums, like Cyrodiil, are full of Stamina proctards and scamblades.
Let's be real, this is just another nerf Sorcs thread in disguise! Leave Riposte alone.#CAREBEARMASTERRACE3 -
Destyran✭✭✭✭✭
To kill people in reactive you just dont cc them. To kill people in riposte you dont. Because you cant not critEmma_Overload wrote: »These posts are hilarious. I've tested this set on my Magicka Sorc, and it's weak AF compared to Reactive, which delivers massive damage reduction right when you need it most, when you're knocked down. But you don't hear anybody calling for Reactive to be nerfed, do you? Probably because the forums, like Cyrodiil, are full of Stamina proctards and scamblades.
Let's be real, this is just another nerf Sorcs thread in disguise! Leave Riposte alone.
0 -
Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Emma_Overload wrote: »These posts are hilarious. I've tested this set on my Magicka Sorc, and it's weak AF compared to Reactive, which delivers massive damage reduction right when you need it most, when you're knocked down. But you don't hear anybody calling for Reactive to be nerfed, do you? Probably because the forums, like Cyrodiil, are full of Stamina proctards and scamblades.
Let's be real, this is just another nerf Sorcs thread in disguise! Leave Riposte alone.
The difference between reactive and riposte is, that reactive doesn't debuff an potentially indefinitely amount of people and only buffs yourself. But again, if they shorten the duration you would still have an constant uptime in 1v1 since it has no cooldown. Does it refresh while active?0 -
Rianai✭✭✭✭✭
✭Emma_Overload wrote: »
Let's be real, this is just another nerf Sorcs thread in disguise! Leave Riposte alone.
I see more nightblades, templars and wardens with this set than sorcs, but whatever ...Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Does it refresh while active?
Yes, it does.1 -
the_man_of_steal✭✭✭Just the fact that it has a 100% uptime pretty much and you can get ot from one person in a zerg by accident.
It lasts 15seconds. Wayyy to long needs to be shorter probably 4-5 seconds with a cool down or something. I donno. I feel its broken
You do NOT get 100% uptime with this set.... its only when you take crit dmg0 -
Destyran✭✭✭✭✭the_man_of_steal wrote: »
You do NOT get 100% uptime with this set.... its only when you take crit dmg
Thats pretty much any damage. Omg bro. Tell me a build that you never crit on. Go ahead ill wait1 -
Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭This. Whenever I duel with my partner I've got this debuff on me from the very first hit until the fight is over. It's not like I choose to crit. Even with base crit of 10% you will eventually crit in 15 seconds.0 -
Dredlord✭✭✭✭✭Those 2 sets provide a buff that is single target and easy accessible for everyone with 100% uptime even without those sets. Those sets are equally good at providing the buffs compared to other means. That's not the case with Wizard's Riposte.
no they are not equally good for providing buffs compared to other means
they have no cost, never run out and dont require a target like some0 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭After reading the patch notes and the incoming power creep, I almost think this set needs to be buffed.4 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭the_man_of_steal wrote: »
You do NOT get 100% uptime with this set.... its only when you take crit dmg
Sorry dude but:
Thats pretty much any damage. Omg bro. Tell me a build that you never crit on. Go ahead ill wait
Even if your opponent as the minimum 10% crit chance, you're looking at 1/10 crit, during a battle where 1 attack per sec is common that's a proc every 10 secs, still giving darn near 100% up time0 -
Ishammael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭But you cant crit on shields. So its pretty useless on Sorcs, isnt it?
You can crit shields. They simply take no crit damage.
Riposte procs when "critting" shields. Also, the 15% dmg reduction applies to the crit which procs it.
Bottom line... its an extremely strong set. Is it OP? Probably not because of the number of other available options which cause that status effect. The opportunity cost of a 5-pc bonus is quite high as well.0 -
Koolio✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Warriors riposte
Health
Max stam
Weapon Damage
When you deal crit damage increase damage by 15% for 15secs
People would cry for a nerf.
I just want wizards to not break cloak. Otherwise this set doesn't bother me.0 -
WreckfulAbandon✭✭✭✭✭
✭I really hate this set. If you want to use a "tanky" set then you shouldn't get BOTH spell dmg and magicka. Give it the Black Rose treatment, 1 mag, 1 stam, 1 health bonus.
Then we'll see who's merely getting free dmg reduction and who is actually building for it.PC NA
All my comments are regarding PvP1 -
Drakkdjinn✭✭✭✭✭
✭GrumpyDuckling wrote: »
Where did ZOS say that PVP is "kinda balanced around perma Major Sorcery/Brutality?"
When they added it to every class' toolkits, several weapon and guild trees, multiple armor sets, potions, as well as skills/classes/sets that make it shareable. This debuff however is much more exclusive and easier to activate than all of the above -- which is why every troll tank and healer who know *** from shinola in PvP should run it until it gets tuned. I am; it's awesome.0 -
GrumpyDuckling✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Drakkdjinn wrote: »
When they added it to every class' toolkits, several weapon and guild trees, multiple armor sets, potions, as well as skills/classes/sets that make it shareable. This debuff however is much more exclusive and easier to activate than all of the above -- which is why every troll tank and healer who know *** from shinola in PvP should run it until it gets tuned. I am; it's awesome.
Wizard's Riposte doesn't need to be tuned. It's a counter to the Brutality/Sorcery/Berserk damage buffs. I could just as easily run 5 pc Dreugh King or Rattlecage and 2 pc Slimecraw. That's PERMANENT damage buffs without the condition that I have to take crit damage, and without cool down timers. Again, those are PERMANENT, not temporary or under conditions like taking crit damage.1 -
Rianai✭✭✭✭✭
✭WR is not a counter to those dmg buffs. It is a counter to dmg in general. Is overall dmg too high? That's debateable, but even if would be the case, one single set shouldn't outperform other defensive sets like WR does.
And please stop those comparisons with dmg buffs. As already mentioned, every source of those buffs allow easy 100% uptime. You are supposed to be able to keep those buffs up permanently. It is different with Minor Maim. Nothing else grants as high Minor Maim uptime as WR. It is not even close. Again, one thing shouldn't outperform all other options.Edited by Rianai on July 20, 2017 2:03AM1
