Horns of the Reach DLC - how difficult will the new dungeons be?

Betsararie · July 2017

RoM harder than WGT? nah. CoS is harder, RoM is severely overrated for difficulty.

That said, none of these should be attempted with pugs.

DRXHarbinger · July 2017

Blanco wrote: »

RoM harder than WGT? nah. CoS is harder, RoM is severely overrated for difficulty.

That said, none of these should be attempted with pugs.

Tell that to HMROM. Try and heal that when you get pillars, try and deeps that when the healer gets it.

Cradle is easy, healer just uses purge after sucking up all the orbs and it becomes faceroll easy.

Hopefully they are stupidly hard like ICP at launch, but hopefully not run to one trash pack after the other after the other etc etc. Give us some bosses that require actual communication like vmol twins.

Artis · July 2017

altemriel wrote: »

SanTii.92 wrote: »

altemriel wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

Hopefully harder than RoM/CoS or perhaps about the same. We have all the 24 other "vet" dungeons with faceroll difficulty, don't need more

well you know, for hard-core players maybe, but for us casuals like me, the pre-DLC dungeons are pretty ok in terms of difficulty and the DLC dungeons are too hard

Which is way there are two difficulties.

well but casuals also want be able to obtain the monster helms, right?

I think the best way to do it would be to add the hard mode for the whole dungeon (the scroll), not only for the last boss, then we would have 3 difficulties (2 for casuals and hard mode for hard-core players)

Not every single piece of gear should be accessible to casuals. If they want to obtain everything, they are more than welcome to complete content needed to get it.

DRXHarbinger · July 2017

Artis wrote: »

altemriel wrote: »

SanTii.92 wrote: »

altemriel wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

Hopefully harder than RoM/CoS or perhaps about the same. We have all the 24 other "vet" dungeons with faceroll difficulty, don't need more

well you know, for hard-core players maybe, but for us casuals like me, the pre-DLC dungeons are pretty ok in terms of difficulty and the DLC dungeons are too hard

Which is way there are two difficulties.

well but casuals also want be able to obtain the monster helms, right?

I think the best way to do it would be to add the hard mode for the whole dungeon (the scroll), not only for the last boss, then we would have 3 difficulties (2 for casuals and hard mode for hard-core players)

Not every single piece of gear should be accessible to casuals. If they want to obtain everything, they are more than welcome to complete content needed to get it.

Yep, as Ian Malcolm once said, "Life.... will find a way..." Going that every scrub has a Veli helm in Cyro AND they will be sold by the vendor it won't be an issue. let them struggle.

Merlin13KAGL · July 2017

How about different?

I'd like some non-linear options to proceed through the dungeon: Door #1, #2, or #3, if you will, each offering different challenges and possibilities.

Could also be potentially interesting if they split up the 4 man briefly, kind of like the catacombs of CoS, but something different - mini area where each class or role can have some unique effect on the given situation?

Regarding difficulty? I'd like to see it not have a "World First HM No-Death Speed Run" within 2 hours of launch (I realize some practice on PTS for this very purpose). I'd also like to see it be surmountable by decent groups in the first year.

Give it good reason to be repeated. Not motifs, not just gear, but because it offers something that makes people want to repeat it, vice have to repeat it.

altemriel · July 2017

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

So another two dungeons the majority of the playerbase cant complete...

this!!

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

How about different?

I'd like some non-linear options to proceed through the dungeon: Door #1, #2, or #3, if you will, each offering different challenges and possibilities.

Could also be potentially interesting if they split up the 4 man briefly, kind of like the catacombs of CoS, but something different - mini area where each class or role can have some unique effect on the given situation?

Regarding difficulty? I'd like to see it not have a "World First HM No-Death Speed Run" within 2 hours of launch (I realize some practice on PTS for this very purpose). I'd also like to see it be surmountable by decent groups in the first year.

Give it good reason to be repeated. Not motifs, not just gear, but because it offers something that makes people want to repeat it, vice have to repeat it.

#weNeedProcedurallyGeneratedDungeons!!!

Apherius · July 2017

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

So another two dungeons the majority of the playerbase cant complete...

it's sure it's going to be hard if this " majority of the playerbas " don't do anything except prepare nerf dungeon thread .
And Say than you won't be able to complete these dungeon while they are still not on the pts won't help you either .

serioulsy babby rockit , if you already know that these dungeon will be impossible for the majority of the playerbase , why don't you try to leave this " majority " behind you and start to Train yourself on a dummy ? Of course you will say me that you don't want to lose your time on a dummy just for do a " good dps " .. but if that is the case ... these dungeon will not have any time to lost with you either.

Phinix1 · July 2017

More 'content' that only 5% of the player base will ever actually do, and which only makes veteran random daily more of a time sink because you get dumped into these for being ESO+ and no pug can ever do them.

Plus something about tossing in 2 new dungeons and calling it a DLC doesn't sit right with me. These should be patched in gratis, not paid DLC.

2 new dungeons most people will never do and which only troll you in daily vet queues = All of Wrothgar? Or Thieves Guild? Or Dark Brotherhood?

So are ZOS just not doing new zones and guilds and quests as DLC anymore? All those will be $50 chapters now? How can 2 dungeons too hard for 80% of pug players possibly equal ALL OF WROTHGAR, THIEVES GUILD, or DARK BROTHERHOOD.

I am beginning to become very nervous about this pricing model, not personally being a rich kid with unlimited mommy/daddy credit card budget.

Doctordarkspawn · July 2017

I recall the devs saying it'll be a bit easier than SOTH.

Hope it's true. We dont need more difficulty pandering that'll be nerfed a few months later due to the interest being way lower than expected.

Nobody says they drink weak coffee man. But they usually do.

Asardes · July 2017

If you feel you can't do them then don't buy them. That's exactly what I did: I didn't buy IC until I felt confident enough to do the dungeons on vet mode.

Drummerx04 · July 2017

The dungeons are comparable in difficulty to SoTH.

I took my SoTH farm group onto the PTS to try them out. The final boss of Bloodforge was actually pretty rough on HM. No obvious way to handle the mechanics beyond tank and spank + maybe some position changes (non HM final boss has a synergy to remove the difficult mechanics from play).

Both final bosses give a strong impression of, "dps race" with the final boss of vFalk actually having a hard limit on how long the fight can carry on before a guaranteed wipe.

A few of the intermediate bosses within the dungeons actually have some pretty cool mechanics and were pretty fun to fight.

Phinix1 · July 2017

Asardes wrote: »

If you feel you can't do them then don't buy them. That's exactly what I did: I didn't buy IC until I felt confident enough to do the dungeons on vet mode.

Was not in any way MY point, but you didn't quote me so I assume this was just a general statement?

The problem I have is not being unable to do them. The problem I have is that 80% of the pugs I have to queue with can't do them. That is unfair to the pugs, and it is unfair to me most of all, who actually bought them because they WANT to do them.

Further, they need to take the time to make a separate random queue for DLC dungeons. If they plan to keep giving 'DLC' dungeons raid mechanics like CoS that's totally cool by me, but they need to take the time to not make the daily veteran dungeon queue just randomly dump you into on of these "mini raids" which are miles beyond the difficulty of all prior veteran dungeons, and which I have never met a pug that can actually accomplish.

Having only 5 guilds and needing most for trading, plus the vast majority being high-turnover with no one left I actually know to be skilled enough to run with, means that premade runs are not really a legit option. The game just chases people away and brings in more too fast to ever actually know anyone.

To me this is just calling 2 new mini-raids that clutter up the random veteran queue with pug fails which most everyone will never even do a DLC like ALL OF WROTHGAR. That seems somehow not right to me.

At the very least make a separate DLC dungeon queue. You already have a separate Undaunted quest giver for them. That tiny bit of extra effort in a paid DLC that is supposed to rival Wrothgar content-wise would save your customers a lot of hassle.

Doctordarkspawn · July 2017

Drummerx04 wrote: »

The dungeons are comparable in difficulty to SoTH.

I took my SoTH farm group onto the PTS to try them out. The final boss of Bloodforge was actually pretty rough on HM. No obvious way to handle the mechanics beyond tank and spank + maybe some position changes (non HM final boss has a synergy to remove the difficult mechanics from play).

Both final bosses give a strong impression of, "dps race" with the final boss of vFalk actually having a hard limit on how long the fight can carry on before a guaranteed wipe.

A few of the intermediate bosses within the dungeons actually have some pretty cool mechanics and were pretty fun to fight.

So basicly, not worth buying.

I'm not paying 25 bucks for something I ain' gonna -want- to play repeatedly. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

And ohhhh yaaaaaaaaaaay, a DPS race boss after our entire ability to DPS got driven into the ground.

ZOS, what is it gonna take for you to learn the consequences of your actions? If you want mechanics like this, dont nerf our DPS. Our sustain. Or ability to tank effectively. Et cetera. Baring the fact DPS races suck, and have never been liked.

Trash dungeons. Not worth the money, sounds like.

Drummerx04 · July 2017

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

So basicly, not worth buying.

I'm not paying 25 bucks for something I ain' gonna -want- to play repeatedly. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

And ohhhh yaaaaaaaaaaay, a DPS race boss after our entire ability to DPS got driven into the ground.

ZOS, what is it gonna take for you to learn the consequences of your actions? If you want mechanics like this, dont nerf our DPS. Our sustain. Or ability to tank effectively. Et cetera. Baring the fact DPS races suck, and have never been liked.

Trash dungeons. Not worth the money, sounds like.

Honestly, the SoTH dungeons to me have always been more of a, "I play enough to justify having ESO+, so I already have access."

But after silken ring and mazzatun motifs were released, they turned into a merit based reward content. If you had a group that could complete the HM challenges, then you could profit greatly by running them and selling the motif. As a result, I have quite a fondness for SoTH that not many are able to share I guess.

ZOS did to this content what I hoped the Celestial and Dro'mathra motifs would be. Hell when they were released trade guilds immediately started scaling nMoL and crag trials down to level 10 and farming the coffers.

Got a little sidetracked, but in short, I expect these dungeons to reward those that really get them down in the long run.

squinceybones · July 2017

Nothing could be harder than the spider dungeon and the orange slime temple. Please nerf them, I really want a velidreth helmet.