Horns of the Reach DLC - how difficult will the new dungeons be?

altemriel · July 2017

Mettaricana wrote: »

I just wanna see the boss helms and if they trash or not

same here

, where is Sypher`s new monster sets preview

?

O_LYKOS · July 2017

Hopefully, on the same level of difficulty.

Betsararie · July 2017

Stovahkiin wrote: »

I imagine they'll be around the difficulty of SoTH dungeons; probably not as hard as RoM though due to some of the feedback Zeni got about that one

lol. we clear vRoM in 15 mins. No death runs. It's not nearly hard enough. Maybe just for people like you or the people complaining who have severe L2P issues.

I was very happy with SoTH, but we need more dungeons like that. Not just 2 at a time.

Dantaria · July 2017

Blanco wrote: »

lol. we clear vRoM in 15 mins. No death runs. It's not nearly hard enough. Maybe just for people like you or the people complaining who have severe L2P issues.

15 mins? Skipping all the mobs, are we

That's exactly the problem with vRoM. The bosses themselves are actually kinda fun, but mobs? Tedious pile of bs, **** this ****, ZOS, **** this ****

Granted, 90% of the mobs are skippable. Once you learn shortcuts - it becomes really fun. So people who struggle with vRoM - are you skipping all the mobs you can skip? Google shortcuts and check - if you skip all, it will be hella easier.

Though that won't save you from execute-stage-healer-statue-bs on last boss. This isn't fun either

CoS is honestly much better, imo. My favorite dung actually. Good design and no RNG bs, very honest and fun

Izaki · July 2017

I just hope that the new monster sets are good!

Difficulty is never a problem. And it would be great to have harder 4 man content:
- for newer players, it will be much easier to find buddies to do a hard dungeon and work hard at it than finding 12 people for a trial
- for most experienced players, it will add small group content that boasts some sort of difficulty other than vDSA

FizzOnly · July 2017

hm i guess will be hard till mechanics/exploits are discovered,after a few runs it will be easy ....but please i want a new good healing set,kinda bored with healer sets atm(2 years of SPC BiS ^^)

ArchMikem · July 2017

Alcast wrote: »

We will see next week. Most likely same as SOTH.

I hope even a bit more difficult

Asardes wrote: »

I wish they are as hard with an experienced group as SotH ones on vet HM with zone PuG. TBH the only 4 man content I still find enjoyable are those 2 dungeons and vDSA. I want something one step higher than that.

jroc699_burr wrote: »

i wanna know what items drop F the difficulty END game players can beat end game content

Magdalina wrote: »

Hopefully harder than RoM/CoS or perhaps about the same. We have all the 24 other "vet" dungeons with faceroll difficulty, don't need more

Voxicity wrote: »

More difficult than SotH I hope. Looking forward to it and seeing what new skins are available (if there will be any at all)

Magıc wrote: »

Hopefully harder than SOTH dungs.

And I hope they're not harder. I want to enjoy my game, not be thrown into fits of anger because of it.

Yolokin_Swagonborn · July 2017

I expect TONS of trash mobs with a billion HP, time stall puzzles, lots of gates and doors where you have to wait to listen to an NPC before they open it, and of course only about 4 loot dropping bosses.

Grunim · July 2017

Easier please.

Perhaps it's the hard cider speaking that enabled me to make this post in the first place, but I know my opinion won't be popular with many forum posters because the forums tend to attract the more "core" crowd but I still haven't learned the existing DLC dungeons because it's perceived by many people (myself included) that they are much harder than the dungeons that the game launched with.

I want more dungeon content that the majority of players can join without being told they need to go practice their DPS rotations at a dummy first before joining the group. I suspect I'm not the only long time player who might feel this way, but people on the forums tend to flame and I really don't care if I get flamed for saying it how I see it.

Cheers!

Dantaria · July 2017

Grunim wrote: »

I want more dungeon content that the majority of players can join without being told they need to go practice their DPS rotations at a dummy first before joining the group.

More. More.

SoTH are... 2 dungeons. Two. Two of... how many?

Imperial City dungs are honestly easier, but okay. Let's include them as well. 4. Four. Four of... how many?

The absolute majority of the dungeons are for "relaxed evenings". You like it easy? Here, two dozens+ dungs. You wish to have some challenge and test what you're made of? Four.

Are you even serious?

wolfxspice · July 2017

i'm kinda just hoping for a ice version of valkyn skoria to fit the whole skyrim=ice thing i always loved the screen shake and the sound, maybe make the one piece magika regen to fit the whole resource management "thing" right now. whatever they do i'm sure it will be cool.

Grunim · July 2017

Dantaria wrote: »

Grunim wrote: »

I want more dungeon content that the majority of players can join without being told they need to go practice their DPS rotations at a dummy first before joining the group.

More. More.

SoTH are... 2 dungeons. Two. Two of... how many?

Imperial City dungs are honestly easier, but okay. Let's include them as well. 4. Four. Four of... how many?

The absolute majority of the dungeons are for "relaxed evenings". You like it easy? Here, two dozens+ dungs. You wish to have some challenge and test what you're made of? Four.

Are you even serious?

Yes, I meant what I said. I've been playing ESO since before it launched and I've done the existing dungeons that the game launched with and I'd like to experience newer dungeons that aren't necessarily more difficult than the dungeons of the base game. I bet others probably feel like I do, except they tend to be the players who don't visit forums

Betsararie · July 2017

Dantaria wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

lol. we clear vRoM in 15 mins. No death runs. It's not nearly hard enough. Maybe just for people like you or the people complaining who have severe L2P issues.

15 mins? Skipping all the mobs, are we

That's exactly the problem with vRoM. The bosses themselves are actually kinda fun, but mobs? Tedious pile of bs, **** this ****, ZOS, **** this ****

Granted, 90% of the mobs are skippable. Once you learn shortcuts - it becomes really fun. So people who struggle with vRoM - are you skipping all the mobs you can skip? Google shortcuts and check - if you skip all, it will be hella easier.

Though that won't save you from execute-stage-healer-statue-bs on last boss. This isn't fun either

CoS is honestly much better, imo. My favorite dung actually. Good design and no RNG bs, very honest and fun

There's no point in killing all the mobs. No benefit. If they are skippable might as well skip them. Of course I know all the skips, where to sneak, etc.

If they are required like the part with the switches, I'll happily kill them. They don't pose a challenge to me, though as far as mobs go they are some of the hardest.

You know I've pugged with people in vRoM who couldn't even get to Chudan because they couldn't handle the mobs. It was so pathetic. I wish people like that were required to go through some type of qualification before they can queue.

I find the boss fights very fun. I really enjoy them, and the fact that they are mechanics-heavy. vRoM is one of my favorite dungeons when playing with capable people.

vCoS is another one that is a great dung, but if you are playing with sucky people, forget it.

Basically what I would like to see is a pack of 5-7 dungeons that are RoM / CoS level. Will take some time to get through all of them. Make it happen, ZOS.

lagrue · July 2017

The real difficulty will be finding people to do the dungeons 2 months after they're out - just like Hist -_-

MattT1988 · July 2017

On par with the Hist dungeons thanks.

BlazingDynamo · July 2017

Make it so damn hard it's physically impossible to beat until like 3 updates later lol

Bobby_V_Rockit · July 2017

So another two dungeons the majority of the playerbase cant complete...

ArchMikem · July 2017

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

So another two dungeons the majority of the playerbase cant complete...

Basically yes.

On the first week we'll get threads saying "So-and-So Guild FIRST Vet HM Completion!" and everyone expects you to praise them for doing something that's practically off limits to most everyone else due to the difficulty standard. I myself didn't even bother touching ICP and WGT or SoTH with a ten foot pole for the longest time until I got better with my Healer and MagSorc (and everyone knows how easy-mode a MagSorc is) and even then Vet Cradle of Shadows was INSANE.

altemriel · July 2017

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

So another two dungeons the majority of the playerbase cant complete...

this!!

Dubhliam · July 2017

vICP and vWGT were really hard at the time they got out.

Fast forward to SotH, the power creep did it's thing, so vCoS and vRoM are harder compared to IC dungeons (figures).

Since it will have been a year after the release of SotH, I can only assume (and hope) the new dungeons will be harder compared to vCoS and vRoM.

Draqone · July 2017

Grunim wrote: »

Yes, I meant what I said. I've been playing ESO since before it launched and I've done the existing dungeons that the game launched with and I'd like to experience newer dungeons that aren't necessarily more difficult than the dungeons of the base game. I bet others probably feel like I do, except they tend to be the players who don't visit forums

@Grunim
Except the SOTH dungeons don't require high DPS. There are literally 2 DPS checks in those dungeons, and that's when you activate Hard Mode. Hard Modes are supposed to be hard.

Lets run through all the bosses, shall we...
Ruins of Mazzatun:
Boss 1: Does literally nothing except knock people down. Hardly even considered a boss.
Boss 2 (Chudan): Does not require high DPS, can be done with low DPS as long as you kill the archers, and they are very easy to kill. The dome spawns at 75/50/25% and killing the archers before it spawns instead of burning down the boss makes this fight easier.
Boss 3 (Zalnur): No DPS check at all, the boss doesn't have a large HP pool and actually spends most of the time in an undamageable state. Even the Archers here are handled by the lizards so you don't need to DPS them.
Boss 4 (final boss): This boss has a soft DPS check since the ads spawn on a timer. You need to kill them before the next wave spawns. On non-HM veteran the ads have laughable HP and if you made it this far you are capable of handling them. The totem is a bit of a DPS check but because it drains resources it generally makes any DPS rotations pretty obsolete.

Cradle of Shadows:
Boss 1: Forces you to run though darkness twice, can be DPSed as slowly as you want. The spiders go down to AoE.
Boss 2: Same thing as above.
Boss 3: Is a big spider. As long as you bash it, and know not to stand in red this boss does literally nothing.
Boss 4 (Vanos): High DPS helps skip the Fire-Rune-teleport phase which makes the fight easier. That said, this phase is not hard as long as the DPS know to bash. During the orange phase the tank should run and chain-kill the ads which makes this part require 0 DPS, the DPS can literally chill and watch them both run around the room.
Boss 5 (Velidreth): Hardmode is a soft DPS check since the ads spawning can overwhelm a weaker group. On non-HM veteran the ads are a joke. Avoiding the orbs simply requires practice but the fight can be done on 0 resources just heavy attacking. Navigating the catacombs is independent of DPS. Very High DPS is detrimental as it might mean you skip the atronach phase and most probably die in the catacombs.

The problem people have with SOTH is that people try to burn down bosses senselessly. It's simply better to respect the mechanics. People are not used to respecting mechanics because a group DPS of 40k is enough to skip most of vet mechanics in other dungeons.

Feanor · July 2017

There are dungeons that the majority of players can enjoy. They're called normal versions.

Saint_Bud · July 2017

I hope they are much harder than the soth dungeons. It also would be nice when not so much rng mechanics would be there and a few good dps encounters.

Anhedonie · July 2017

I hope they will be harder than SotH dungeons.

Tyrion87 · July 2017

Currently, the SotH dungs are the only ones that constitute a perfect example of how to create a competitive 4-man content that is enjoyable and not boring. Of course I mean the vet modes HM. That said the new dungs just cannot be any easier than the SotH ones.

Tirps · July 2017

Par with vWGT and vICP please. It is already too hard to find decent group for SoTH dungeons lol.

Apherius · July 2017

ArchMikem wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

We will see next week. Most likely same as SOTH.

I hope even a bit more difficult

Asardes wrote: »

I wish they are as hard with an experienced group as SotH ones on vet HM with zone PuG. TBH the only 4 man content I still find enjoyable are those 2 dungeons and vDSA. I want something one step higher than that.

jroc699_burr wrote: »

i wanna know what items drop F the difficulty END game players can beat end game content

Magdalina wrote: »

Hopefully harder than RoM/CoS or perhaps about the same. We have all the 24 other "vet" dungeons with faceroll difficulty, don't need more

Voxicity wrote: »

More difficult than SotH I hope. Looking forward to it and seeing what new skins are available (if there will be any at all)

Magıc wrote: »

Hopefully harder than SOTH dungs.

And I hope they're not harder. I want to enjoy my game, not be thrown into fits of anger because of it.

The normal mode is here for you ! enjoy , I will pay for play the Vet version , you will pay for play the normal version , everyone is happy and nothing need a nerf .

Apherius · July 2017

Feanor wrote: »

There are dungeons that the majority of players can enjoy. They're called normal versions.

And all vet version except SOTH , but this is not enough for them , they want everything ... they want to skip the difficulty and don't let Harcore gamer enjoy what they pay for , they want to pass the dungeon then say in guild chat
" yeah ! we have nuke Horn of the reach ! this was very easy , probably because i have something like 4K dps ! and i forgot my armor on my bank during these dungeon, now i think i will call for a nerf because the healer died once ... so the no death is impossible "

Apherius · July 2017

I hope they will be harder than SotH dungeon.

I also hope there will not be any hybrid set .

Asardes · July 2017

I agree that dungeons based strictly on DPS checks are stupid and will eventually fall prey to power creep from higher CP and gear quality. That's the case with most of the vanilla game ones, and partially IC: you can burn trough the Inhibitor so fast that it hardly turns blue, Ibomez and all his atronachs without bothering with the acid bombs, and Lord Warden so fast he skips the nova phase. I would like to see more non-skippable mechanics, that require tight group coordination: target prioritization for the DDs, well timed CCs and interrupts from the tank and intensive resource support from the healer. That means that players in all roles gets tested, and you can't simply "LF3M DD fast run 2 keys" on those dungeons, because you can't simply stack and burn trough the mechanics.

SotH veteran dungeons are easily completed by people who actually use their brains, and have a minimum of coordination. You don't even need more than 20K DPS to do them (maybe 25K single/50K AoE to do the HM in vRoM), but you need to know the tactics, and agree in advance what to do. It's pretty simple if people actually talk in group chat and agree on what each will do before starting. People who can't complete them don't bother to do that. I PuG-ed them a few times, before I finally smarted up and joined a guild, because the random people I ended up with were just horrible. I actually did the HM and most achievements in both on first run, within a few days of release, but I ran them with friends, we had patience, we talked and understood the mechanics, we planned and executed the tactics together. So when I later joined those PuGs I actually knew what people need to do, and I explained it thoroughly. Rarely did I receive any kind of reply. That's the first sign that people didn't care. And in fact they were doing the same mistakes over and over again, missing things I had explained beforehand, meaning that they didn't even bothered to read the group chat. In one instance I ran as healer the group wiped more than a dozen times in a row with 5% left on Tree Minder Na-Kesh because nobody bothered to handle the statue or move the boss and AoE it with the totem, although I told them after each failure exactly what and how to prioritize.

People like those fully deserve to get punished hard by the mechanics, and people who coordinate well and understand the tactics to be rewarded for it. There should be more than one or two stepping stones before going to trials. SotH dungeons and vDSA are the only ones ATM. Without such advanced progression content the leap to end game veteran trials is too high to take. If a game doesn't have an adequate progression curve it fails in the long run. IMO the progression curve is way too steep in ESO: 24 very easy dungeons, 2 medium ones, 2 hard ones and an arena with similar dificulty, 3 moderately difficult trials, and 2 really hard ones. The last 2 steps are the hardest to take. There should be more incremental. The new dungeons need to fill that role.