kkravaritieb17_ESO wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

kkravaritieb17_ESO wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Sanct16 wrote: »

@Derra
It's quite convient that none of your suggested changes have any impact on your playstyle, isn't it? I honestly dont see how changing groupsize to ~5 people would improve anything. People would just stop playing because they can't play with their friends in a largescale setting and still get ran over by a 3x 5 man ZS raid. Organisation will always overcome pugging especially with the amount of possibilities you have in this game. If they remove skills like purge and maneuver it will hurt groups ofc but what if we start just sitting in keeps spamming siege and roots on people. Fights will still be endless, nothing will change. Over time there have been so many skills that our raid was supposedly reliant on, yet when those skills got actually nerfed we were still fine, arguably even stronger because we figured out alternatives way before our enemies.

Performance is way better on Sotha Sil than it is on Vivec, so let's remove cp on all campaigns. The server cant handle CP obviously, they are the problem. Or would you disagree - perhaps because it will hurt your preferred playstyle? If so, then what if I told you that our playstyle was better since we dont need CP but yours does, effectively making you responsible for the lag? //not that I'm actually saying so, it's more about delivering a message

Of course there is a point at which you can blame players for causing issues by playing in a way that wasn't intended and the server can't handle (for example I would blame someone who is stacking 3 organised raids for lagging the server). However I honestly think it is extremely questionable that the 12-15 man groups we run is bigger than what the game was designed for, especially considering the history of the game, where for the longest time 24 man or even more was considered the standard for organised raids.
It's like if you buy a new car: If you try to drive with 300 km/h and something breaks it's your fault for pushing the limits of the car. If something breaks while you drive 120 km/h, it's the fault of the company that built the car.

I can only attribute your lack in imagination on how groupsize affects largescale pvp (mostly for the better) on you never having played any other game than ESO that supported largescale open world pvp.

I´ve personally played four titles that placed a major focus on largescale open world pvp and retrospectively it´s very clear why the titles with somewhat chaotic fights (large scale small groups) were much better than the organised (large scale large group) titles.

Maybe you´ll play CU, maybe they´ll stick to their groupsize of 6 to 10. Maybe you´ll understand what i mean then.

Otherwise you can join me in TS and i´ll explain to you why the groupsize in eso is problematic in relation to the total amount of enemies it allows you to handle.
It has nothing to do with me wanting something bad for you personally. I want to participate in everythign pvp has to offer. Largegroups deny everyone not running a large group that possibility.
Smaller groups do/would not be able to achieve that.
The key for me is possibility of participation (the lag it creates is just a bonus).

The problem with your car analogy is: Yeah you´re maybe going 120mph - but youre towing 4 orther cars while doing so - which you ofc comfortably ignore.
I´ve said many times: The problem is not your groupsize. It´s the sheer amout of players you can attract (and need to for a desireable AP/H) and not die while farming them over and over creating fight symbols attracting more players in the process.
The fights last too long. It work in a way that either you kill them shortly after the first engagement or they kill you.

There lies the most important problem on your last argument the fact that death means kinda nothing in this game. Once we kill people they just rez in our face and we can't do much about it and that's mostly why the fights are prolonged unnecesarily. Since it's impossible for us to kill the zombie horde we have to settle for surviving long enough against them. We repeatedly asked zos to add even a small 20-30 sec cd on soul gem rezing after the first rez but to no avail.

And i 100% agree. Rezzing should cost atleast 100 ultimate and be interrupted by every attack (like placing camps/siege).
Burning camps should not be interrupted by anything.

The problem remaining would be large groups forming an exclusive club where they have no competition outside of other large groups.
I´d be in favor of making the zombiehorde killable but also breaking the largegroup monarchy on pvp at the same time

Edit: In a way that when good groups finally can bring closure to an outnumbered fight they need to reduce the amount of people these groups can handle and win - because as you said: when half of the DC faction is following you and you can kill half of an entire faction that´s not healthy for the game imo.

MLRPZ wrote: »

@Derra were you here yesterday prime time to witness the scroll fight or even roe fight ? How can those fight be perfectly lag free with no server crash involved and sometimes server just can't handle.
We literally fought the entire D.C pop with a 14 man group between roe and fare as nothing else was happening on the map D.C side and yet the server was handling just fine

I was - it wouldn´t call it exactly lag free but in general the performance was pretty decent since mondays patch.

I really don't understand why organised guilds should be further nerfed. Nothing was handed to us on a platter. We struggled as a guild to achieve cohesion and balance in order to perform at our maximum capacity unlike the pug horde (which usually is followed by organised and semi organised guilds) which will chase us like your small group to the end of the map like rabid dogs mindlesly spamming skills and rezing even if we kill a lot of them. And honestly even if we get nerfed again somehow, we will persevere and find a way to fight against the odds which is kinda what we ve been doing since the days of banana squad and what we will still be doing for days to come.

Derra wrote: »

kkravaritieb17_ESO wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

kkravaritieb17_ESO wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Sanct16 wrote: »

@Derra
It's quite convient that none of your suggested changes have any impact on your playstyle, isn't it? I honestly dont see how changing groupsize to ~5 people would improve anything. People would just stop playing because they can't play with their friends in a largescale setting and still get ran over by a 3x 5 man ZS raid. Organisation will always overcome pugging especially with the amount of possibilities you have in this game. If they remove skills like purge and maneuver it will hurt groups ofc but what if we start just sitting in keeps spamming siege and roots on people. Fights will still be endless, nothing will change. Over time there have been so many skills that our raid was supposedly reliant on, yet when those skills got actually nerfed we were still fine, arguably even stronger because we figured out alternatives way before our enemies.

Performance is way better on Sotha Sil than it is on Vivec, so let's remove cp on all campaigns. The server cant handle CP obviously, they are the problem. Or would you disagree - perhaps because it will hurt your preferred playstyle? If so, then what if I told you that our playstyle was better since we dont need CP but yours does, effectively making you responsible for the lag? //not that I'm actually saying so, it's more about delivering a message

Of course there is a point at which you can blame players for causing issues by playing in a way that wasn't intended and the server can't handle (for example I would blame someone who is stacking 3 organised raids for lagging the server). However I honestly think it is extremely questionable that the 12-15 man groups we run is bigger than what the game was designed for, especially considering the history of the game, where for the longest time 24 man or even more was considered the standard for organised raids.
It's like if you buy a new car: If you try to drive with 300 km/h and something breaks it's your fault for pushing the limits of the car. If something breaks while you drive 120 km/h, it's the fault of the company that built the car.

I can only attribute your lack in imagination on how groupsize affects largescale pvp (mostly for the better) on you never having played any other game than ESO that supported largescale open world pvp.

I´ve personally played four titles that placed a major focus on largescale open world pvp and retrospectively it´s very clear why the titles with somewhat chaotic fights (large scale small groups) were much better than the organised (large scale large group) titles.

Maybe you´ll play CU, maybe they´ll stick to their groupsize of 6 to 10. Maybe you´ll understand what i mean then.

Otherwise you can join me in TS and i´ll explain to you why the groupsize in eso is problematic in relation to the total amount of enemies it allows you to handle.
It has nothing to do with me wanting something bad for you personally. I want to participate in everythign pvp has to offer. Largegroups deny everyone not running a large group that possibility.
Smaller groups do/would not be able to achieve that.
The key for me is possibility of participation (the lag it creates is just a bonus).

The problem with your car analogy is: Yeah you´re maybe going 120mph - but youre towing 4 orther cars while doing so - which you ofc comfortably ignore.
I´ve said many times: The problem is not your groupsize. It´s the sheer amout of players you can attract (and need to for a desireable AP/H) and not die while farming them over and over creating fight symbols attracting more players in the process.
The fights last too long. It work in a way that either you kill them shortly after the first engagement or they kill you.

There lies the most important problem on your last argument the fact that death means kinda nothing in this game. Once we kill people they just rez in our face and we can't do much about it and that's mostly why the fights are prolonged unnecesarily. Since it's impossible for us to kill the zombie horde we have to settle for surviving long enough against them. We repeatedly asked zos to add even a small 20-30 sec cd on soul gem rezing after the first rez but to no avail.

And i 100% agree. Rezzing should cost atleast 100 ultimate and be interrupted by every attack (like placing camps/siege).
Burning camps should not be interrupted by anything.

The problem remaining would be large groups forming an exclusive club where they have no competition outside of other large groups.
I´d be in favor of making the zombiehorde killable but also breaking the largegroup monarchy on pvp at the same time

Edit: In a way that when good groups finally can bring closure to an outnumbered fight they need to reduce the amount of people these groups can handle and win - because as you said: when half of the DC faction is following you and you can kill half of an entire faction that´s not healthy for the game imo.

MLRPZ wrote: »

@Derra were you here yesterday prime time to witness the scroll fight or even roe fight ? How can those fight be perfectly lag free with no server crash involved and sometimes server just can't handle.
We literally fought the entire D.C pop with a 14 man group between roe and fare as nothing else was happening on the map D.C side and yet the server was handling just fine

I was - it wouldn´t call it exactly lag free but in general the performance was pretty decent since mondays patch.

I really don't understand why organised guilds should be further nerfed. Nothing was handed to us on a platter. We struggled as a guild to achieve cohesion and balance in order to perform at our maximum capacity unlike the pug horde (which usually is followed by organised and semi organised guilds) which will chase us like your small group to the end of the map like rabid dogs mindlesly spamming skills and rezing even if we kill a lot of them. And honestly even if we get nerfed again somehow, we will persevere and find a way to fight against the odds which is kinda what we ve been doing since the days of banana squad and what we will still be doing for days to come.

As i´ve said in my edit:
If you were to nerf rezzing (to make the pugtrain killable) you need to weaken the current potential of ballgroups.
You state yourself that you fought the a large part of the DC faction and i´ve seen it.

You really think it would be good for the game if one group could roflstomp a majority of one whole factions pvp players?

kuro-dono wrote: »

its just so damn simple> friendlyfire and player collision, nobody wants to be on hug range with 20+ other ppl.
sadly ppl are so scared of the next generation griefers/trollers who would abuse this. but obviously, any decent, able dev team would start kicking/banning actively griefing/trolling ppl. ( plus side, this would allow you to kill any troll/griefer who has taken scroll just to annoy the faction he/she is part of. )

if this doesnt kill lagg, then i dont know what would. i mean there is other option, disable aoe abilities completely, but that would cause outrage in suicidebombers and the small scalers vs X folks. ( i didnt include aoe choo choo in small scalers as they honestly arent really small scaling, they are aoe choo choo:ing. )

Derra wrote: »

kkravaritieb17_ESO wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

kkravaritieb17_ESO wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Sanct16 wrote: »

@Derra
It's quite convient that none of your suggested changes have any impact on your playstyle, isn't it? I honestly dont see how changing groupsize to ~5 people would improve anything. People would just stop playing because they can't play with their friends in a largescale setting and still get ran over by a 3x 5 man ZS raid. Organisation will always overcome pugging especially with the amount of possibilities you have in this game. If they remove skills like purge and maneuver it will hurt groups ofc but what if we start just sitting in keeps spamming siege and roots on people. Fights will still be endless, nothing will change. Over time there have been so many skills that our raid was supposedly reliant on, yet when those skills got actually nerfed we were still fine, arguably even stronger because we figured out alternatives way before our enemies.

Performance is way better on Sotha Sil than it is on Vivec, so let's remove cp on all campaigns. The server cant handle CP obviously, they are the problem. Or would you disagree - perhaps because it will hurt your preferred playstyle? If so, then what if I told you that our playstyle was better since we dont need CP but yours does, effectively making you responsible for the lag? //not that I'm actually saying so, it's more about delivering a message

Of course there is a point at which you can blame players for causing issues by playing in a way that wasn't intended and the server can't handle (for example I would blame someone who is stacking 3 organised raids for lagging the server). However I honestly think it is extremely questionable that the 12-15 man groups we run is bigger than what the game was designed for, especially considering the history of the game, where for the longest time 24 man or even more was considered the standard for organised raids.
It's like if you buy a new car: If you try to drive with 300 km/h and something breaks it's your fault for pushing the limits of the car. If something breaks while you drive 120 km/h, it's the fault of the company that built the car.

I can only attribute your lack in imagination on how groupsize affects largescale pvp (mostly for the better) on you never having played any other game than ESO that supported largescale open world pvp.

I´ve personally played four titles that placed a major focus on largescale open world pvp and retrospectively it´s very clear why the titles with somewhat chaotic fights (large scale small groups) were much better than the organised (large scale large group) titles.

Maybe you´ll play CU, maybe they´ll stick to their groupsize of 6 to 10. Maybe you´ll understand what i mean then.

Otherwise you can join me in TS and i´ll explain to you why the groupsize in eso is problematic in relation to the total amount of enemies it allows you to handle.
It has nothing to do with me wanting something bad for you personally. I want to participate in everythign pvp has to offer. Largegroups deny everyone not running a large group that possibility.
Smaller groups do/would not be able to achieve that.
The key for me is possibility of participation (the lag it creates is just a bonus).

The problem with your car analogy is: Yeah you´re maybe going 120mph - but youre towing 4 orther cars while doing so - which you ofc comfortably ignore.
I´ve said many times: The problem is not your groupsize. It´s the sheer amout of players you can attract (and need to for a desireable AP/H) and not die while farming them over and over creating fight symbols attracting more players in the process.
The fights last too long. It work in a way that either you kill them shortly after the first engagement or they kill you.

There lies the most important problem on your last argument the fact that death means kinda nothing in this game. Once we kill people they just rez in our face and we can't do much about it and that's mostly why the fights are prolonged unnecesarily. Since it's impossible for us to kill the zombie horde we have to settle for surviving long enough against them. We repeatedly asked zos to add even a small 20-30 sec cd on soul gem rezing after the first rez but to no avail.

And i 100% agree. Rezzing should cost atleast 100 ultimate and be interrupted by every attack (like placing camps/siege).
Burning camps should not be interrupted by anything.

The problem remaining would be large groups forming an exclusive club where they have no competition outside of other large groups.
I´d be in favor of making the zombiehorde killable but also breaking the largegroup monarchy on pvp at the same time

Edit: In a way that when good groups finally can bring closure to an outnumbered fight they need to reduce the amount of people these groups can handle and win - because as you said: when half of the DC faction is following you and you can kill half of an entire faction that´s not healthy for the game imo.

MLRPZ wrote: »

@Derra were you here yesterday prime time to witness the scroll fight or even roe fight ? How can those fight be perfectly lag free with no server crash involved and sometimes server just can't handle.
We literally fought the entire D.C pop with a 14 man group between roe and fare as nothing else was happening on the map D.C side and yet the server was handling just fine

I was - it wouldn´t call it exactly lag free but in general the performance was pretty decent since mondays patch.

I really don't understand why organised guilds should be further nerfed. Nothing was handed to us on a platter. We struggled as a guild to achieve cohesion and balance in order to perform at our maximum capacity unlike the pug horde (which usually is followed by organised and semi organised guilds) which will chase us like your small group to the end of the map like rabid dogs mindlesly spamming skills and rezing even if we kill a lot of them. And honestly even if we get nerfed again somehow, we will persevere and find a way to fight against the odds which is kinda what we ve been doing since the days of banana squad and what we will still be doing for days to come.

As i´ve said in my edit:
If you were to nerf rezzing (to make the pugtrain killable) you need to weaken the current potential of ballgroups.
You state yourself that you fought the a large part of the DC faction and i´ve seen it.

You really think it would be good for the game if one group could roflstomp a majority of one whole factions pvp players?

kuro-dono wrote: »

oh forgot to add this> better rewards would result in so that 3 factions would all be sitting on their one colored map. each to their own. the situation on maps would be bit different if the current aoe choo choo:s would only play ava not farm.

they all after all want zombies to be farmed and chase them across map, and no matter how much they try to prove that they just play because they want to be competive is ***, they play like that so they can farm as much as they want and to them its much o fun doing it. i have no idea how griefing/trolling other ppl is fun but ppl are allowed to like and do whatever they like to do.

Isbilen wrote: »

Rin_Senya wrote: »

Lieblingsjunge wrote: »

HEY!

So what now. ZS played on Vivec today, @Isbilen . But it didn't crash. Unfriendly Fire didn't play today - so should we blame them? Since it crashes when they're raiding too.
Or wait - maybe we should blame Shadow's League. They didn't raid today either. But they used to raid same time as ZS. LET'S JUST BLAME EVERY GUILD, YES? Sounds good. Gotta love presenting arguments that suddenly doesn't hold water, right?

Or just poke @Rin_Senya and give her a cookie for not pushing the "Crash EU-server button"

It's ok I just was in a good mood today but I'll try my best to crash it tomorrow! I did come close when I missed that 50k Roe tick to disconnecting though!

I don't understand… Do you think that you're not affecting the server with what you are doing? You guys used to complain about SWAT (you could take their name by the way: Sanct's Weapons And Tactics) and Aetherius 8 doing the exact same thing you are now for exactly that reason.

Sure other guilds play in ball groups too, but the evidence clearly shows that they affect the server much less than you guys. It is NOT a coincidence that it can be fine for days and then crash as soon as you guys ball up. I don’t know whether or not that is because the other guilds are less effective and wipe quicker or because they are playing it differently than you, but one thing is clear: you guys have a very negative impact on the server performance.

Sanct16 wrote: »

Isbilen wrote: »

Rin_Senya wrote: »

Lieblingsjunge wrote: »

HEY!

So what now. ZS played on Vivec today, @Isbilen . But it didn't crash. Unfriendly Fire didn't play today - so should we blame them? Since it crashes when they're raiding too.
Or wait - maybe we should blame Shadow's League. They didn't raid today either. But they used to raid same time as ZS. LET'S JUST BLAME EVERY GUILD, YES? Sounds good. Gotta love presenting arguments that suddenly doesn't hold water, right?

Or just poke @Rin_Senya and give her a cookie for not pushing the "Crash EU-server button"

It's ok I just was in a good mood today but I'll try my best to crash it tomorrow! I did come close when I missed that 50k Roe tick to disconnecting though!

I don't understand… Do you think that you're not affecting the server with what you are doing? You guys used to complain about SWAT (you could take their name by the way: Sanct's Weapons And Tactics) and Aetherius 8 doing the exact same thing you are now for exactly that reason.

Sure other guilds play in ball groups too, but the evidence clearly shows that they affect the server much less than you guys. It is NOT a coincidence that it can be fine for days and then crash as soon as you guys ball up. I don’t know whether or not that is because the other guilds are less effective and wipe quicker or because they are playing it differently than you, but one thing is clear: you guys have a very negative impact on the server performance.

So was the server lag free during this weekend?

Sanct16 wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

Sanct16 wrote: »

Isbilen wrote: »

Rin_Senya wrote: »

Lieblingsjunge wrote: »

HEY!

So what now. ZS played on Vivec today, @Isbilen . But it didn't crash. Unfriendly Fire didn't play today - so should we blame them? Since it crashes when they're raiding too.
Or wait - maybe we should blame Shadow's League. They didn't raid today either. But they used to raid same time as ZS. LET'S JUST BLAME EVERY GUILD, YES? Sounds good. Gotta love presenting arguments that suddenly doesn't hold water, right?

Or just poke @Rin_Senya and give her a cookie for not pushing the "Crash EU-server button"

It's ok I just was in a good mood today but I'll try my best to crash it tomorrow! I did come close when I missed that 50k Roe tick to disconnecting though!

I don't understand… Do you think that you're not affecting the server with what you are doing? You guys used to complain about SWAT (you could take their name by the way: Sanct's Weapons And Tactics) and Aetherius 8 doing the exact same thing you are now for exactly that reason.

Sure other guilds play in ball groups too, but the evidence clearly shows that they affect the server much less than you guys. It is NOT a coincidence that it can be fine for days and then crash as soon as you guys ball up. I don’t know whether or not that is because the other guilds are less effective and wipe quicker or because they are playing it differently than you, but one thing is clear: you guys have a very negative impact on the server performance.

So was the server lag free during this weekend?

To be fair I had no lag issue saturday late afternoon/night and the whole of sunday

Did you play during prime time tho?