Venom4You wrote: »

Instead of simply agreeing that the european server performance leaves much to desire and thereby ecourage ZOS of finally trying harder to get PVP working as it should, people rather come here to blame a certain "evil" playstyle and one specific guild for the issues just because they initiated this post.
It's just great. As long as this endless "your fault, no YOUR fault" whining is going on, ZOS will sigh in relief being able to move on without adressing major PVP issues. Why should they feed the wolves that devour each other?
I honestly can't hear it anymore. This is an AvAvA game. Like in all other games of this type coordinated guild play should be allowed and possible, using and optimizing mechanics provided by the game. ZOS made enough changes in the last years that ultimately killed off a lot of guilds because they just couldn't run successfully anymore - One needs dedicated and good people to run a PVP raid successful nowadays. Otherwise one doesn't stand a chance against the flood of players. Sth just very few guilds seem to still achieve. I mean one guild is hardly to blame for casual pugs (and many guilds) that keep lining up willingly in the hundreds, eager to zerg down 16 peps, but getting farmed in the process because there is just no learning process on their side. And that's ok. While one party evolves and adapts, the casual party doesn't bother. It's been like this in all PVP games - Solution: Exterminate the party that actually does care about strategic raid gameplay? I hope not... People need to grow up and stop blaming other community members for server lagg and inbalance of Cyrodiil PVP. The truely guilty do not comment on anything related to PVP and let the community tear itsself appart, so ultimately noone will be left to consume resources that could be better invested in profitable pve story dlcs

It´s zos fault either way because as a developer they have to either fix the underlying mechanix or fix the behavior of people inside the system.

You can still be mad at the players running around like this guy:

Pretending everything is fine as long as you´re playing by the rules the evil overlords provide you with.

HEY!

So what now. ZS played on Vivec today, @Isbilen . But it didn't crash. Unfriendly Fire didn't play today - so should we blame them? Since it crashes when they're raiding too.
Or wait - maybe we should blame Shadow's League. They didn't raid today either. But they used to raid same time as ZS. LET'S JUST BLAME EVERY GUILD, YES? Sounds good. Gotta love presenting arguments that suddenly doesn't hold water, right?

Or just poke @Rin_Senya and give her a cookie for not pushing the "Crash EU-server button"

@Derra
It's quite convient that none of your suggested changes have any impact on your playstyle, isn't it? I honestly dont see how changing groupsize to ~5 people would improve anything. People would just stop playing because they can't play with their friends in a largescale setting and still get ran over by a 3x 5 man ZS raid. Organisation will always overcome pugging especially with the amount of possibilities you have in this game. If they remove skills like purge and maneuver it will hurt groups ofc but what if we start just sitting in keeps spamming siege and roots on people. Fights will still be endless, nothing will change. Over time there have been so many skills that our raid was supposedly reliant on, yet when those skills got actually nerfed we were still fine, arguably even stronger because we figured out alternatives way before our enemies.

Performance is way better on Sotha Sil than it is on Vivec, so let's remove cp on all campaigns. The server cant handle CP obviously, they are the problem. Or would you disagree - perhaps because it will hurt your preferred playstyle? If so, then what if I told you that our playstyle was better since we dont need CP but yours does, effectively making you responsible for the lag? //not that I'm actually saying so, it's more about delivering a message

Of course there is a point at which you can blame players for causing issues by playing in a way that wasn't intended and the server can't handle (for example I would blame someone who is stacking 3 organised raids for lagging the server). However I honestly think it is extremely questionable that the 12-15 man groups we run is bigger than what the game was designed for, especially considering the history of the game, where for the longest time 24 man or even more was considered the standard for organised raids.
It's like if you buy a new car: If you try to drive with 300 km/h and something breaks it's your fault for pushing the limits of the car. If something breaks while you drive 120 km/h, it's the fault of the company that built the car.

Sanct16 wrote: »

@Derra
It's quite convient that none of your suggested changes have any impact on your playstyle, isn't it? I honestly dont see how changing groupsize to ~5 people would improve anything. People would just stop playing because they can't play with their friends in a largescale setting and still get ran over by a 3x 5 man ZS raid. Organisation will always overcome pugging especially with the amount of possibilities you have in this game. If they remove skills like purge and maneuver it will hurt groups ofc but what if we start just sitting in keeps spamming siege and roots on people. Fights will still be endless, nothing will change. Over time there have been so many skills that our raid was supposedly reliant on, yet when those skills got actually nerfed we were still fine, arguably even stronger because we figured out alternatives way before our enemies.

Performance is way better on Sotha Sil than it is on Vivec, so let's remove cp on all campaigns. The server cant handle CP obviously, they are the problem. Or would you disagree - perhaps because it will hurt your preferred playstyle? If so, then what if I told you that our playstyle was better since we dont need CP but yours does, effectively making you responsible for the lag? //not that I'm actually saying so, it's more about delivering a message

Of course there is a point at which you can blame players for causing issues by playing in a way that wasn't intended and the server can't handle (for example I would blame someone who is stacking 3 organised raids for lagging the server). However I honestly think it is extremely questionable that the 12-15 man groups we run is bigger than what the game was designed for, especially considering the history of the game, where for the longest time 24 man or even more was considered the standard for organised raids.
It's like if you buy a new car: If you try to drive with 300 km/h and something breaks it's your fault for pushing the limits of the car. If something breaks while you drive 120 km/h, it's the fault of the company that built the car.

I can only attribute your lack in imagination on how groupsize affects largescale pvp (mostly for the better) on you never having played any other game than ESO that supported largescale open world pvp.

I´ve personally played four titles that placed a major focus on largescale open world pvp and retrospectively it´s very clear why the titles with somewhat chaotic fights (large scale small groups) were much better than the organised (large scale large group) titles.

Maybe you´ll play CU, maybe they´ll stick to their groupsize of 6 to 10. Maybe you´ll understand what i mean then.

Otherwise you can join me in TS and i´ll explain to you why the groupsize in eso is problematic in relation to the total amount of enemies it allows you to handle.
It has nothing to do with me wanting something bad for you personally. I want to participate in everythign pvp has to offer. Largegroups deny everyone not running a large group that possibility.
Smaller groups do/would not be able to achieve that.
The key for me is possibility of participation (the lag it creates is just a bonus).

The problem with your car analogy is: Yeah you´re maybe going 120mph - but youre towing 4 orther cars while doing so - which you ofc comfortably ignore.
I´ve said many times: The problem is not your groupsize. It´s the sheer amout of players you can attract (and need to for a desireable AP/H) and not die while farming them over and over creating fight symbols attracting more players in the process.
The fights last too long. It work in a way that either you kill them shortly after the first engagement or they kill you.

@Derra were you here yesterday prime time to witness the scroll fight or even roe fight ? How can those fight be perfectly lag free with no server crash involved and sometimes server just can't handle.
We literally fought the entire D.C pop with a 14 man group between roe and fare as nothing else was happening on the map D.C side and yet the server was handling just fine

Lag free is anything below 200 ping in this game xD

Derra wrote: »

kkravaritieb17_ESO wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Sanct16 wrote: »

@Derra
It's quite convient that none of your suggested changes have any impact on your playstyle, isn't it? I honestly dont see how changing groupsize to ~5 people would improve anything. People would just stop playing because they can't play with their friends in a largescale setting and still get ran over by a 3x 5 man ZS raid. Organisation will always overcome pugging especially with the amount of possibilities you have in this game. If they remove skills like purge and maneuver it will hurt groups ofc but what if we start just sitting in keeps spamming siege and roots on people. Fights will still be endless, nothing will change. Over time there have been so many skills that our raid was supposedly reliant on, yet when those skills got actually nerfed we were still fine, arguably even stronger because we figured out alternatives way before our enemies.

Performance is way better on Sotha Sil than it is on Vivec, so let's remove cp on all campaigns. The server cant handle CP obviously, they are the problem. Or would you disagree - perhaps because it will hurt your preferred playstyle? If so, then what if I told you that our playstyle was better since we dont need CP but yours does, effectively making you responsible for the lag? //not that I'm actually saying so, it's more about delivering a message

Of course there is a point at which you can blame players for causing issues by playing in a way that wasn't intended and the server can't handle (for example I would blame someone who is stacking 3 organised raids for lagging the server). However I honestly think it is extremely questionable that the 12-15 man groups we run is bigger than what the game was designed for, especially considering the history of the game, where for the longest time 24 man or even more was considered the standard for organised raids.
It's like if you buy a new car: If you try to drive with 300 km/h and something breaks it's your fault for pushing the limits of the car. If something breaks while you drive 120 km/h, it's the fault of the company that built the car.

I can only attribute your lack in imagination on how groupsize affects largescale pvp (mostly for the better) on you never having played any other game than ESO that supported largescale open world pvp.

I´ve personally played four titles that placed a major focus on largescale open world pvp and retrospectively it´s very clear why the titles with somewhat chaotic fights (large scale small groups) were much better than the organised (large scale large group) titles.

Maybe you´ll play CU, maybe they´ll stick to their groupsize of 6 to 10. Maybe you´ll understand what i mean then.

Otherwise you can join me in TS and i´ll explain to you why the groupsize in eso is problematic in relation to the total amount of enemies it allows you to handle.
It has nothing to do with me wanting something bad for you personally. I want to participate in everythign pvp has to offer. Largegroups deny everyone not running a large group that possibility.
Smaller groups do/would not be able to achieve that.
The key for me is possibility of participation (the lag it creates is just a bonus).

The problem with your car analogy is: Yeah you´re maybe going 120mph - but youre towing 4 orther cars while doing so - which you ofc comfortably ignore.
I´ve said many times: The problem is not your groupsize. It´s the sheer amout of players you can attract (and need to for a desireable AP/H) and not die while farming them over and over creating fight symbols attracting more players in the process.
The fights last too long. It work in a way that either you kill them shortly after the first engagement or they kill you.

There lies the most important problem on your last argument the fact that death means kinda nothing in this game. Once we kill people they just rez in our face and we can't do much about it and that's mostly why the fights are prolonged unnecesarily. Since it's impossible for us to kill the zombie horde we have to settle for surviving long enough against them. We repeatedly asked zos to add even a small 20-30 sec cd on soul gem rezing after the first rez but to no avail.

And i 100% agree. Rezzing should cost atleast 100 ultimate and be interrupted by every attack (like placing camps/siege).
Burning camps should not be interrupted by anything.

The problem remaining would be large groups forming an exclusive club where they have no competition outside of other large groups.
I´d be in favor of making the zombiehorde killable but also breaking the largegroup monarchy on pvp at the same time

Edit: In a way that when good groups finally can bring closure to an outnumbered fight they need to reduce the amount of people these groups can handle and win - because as you said: when half of the DC faction is following you and you can kill half of an entire faction that´s not healthy for the game imo.

MLRPZ wrote: »

@Derra were you here yesterday prime time to witness the scroll fight or even roe fight ? How can those fight be perfectly lag free with no server crash involved and sometimes server just can't handle.
We literally fought the entire D.C pop with a 14 man group between roe and fare as nothing else was happening on the map D.C side and yet the server was handling just fine

I was - it wouldn´t call it exactly lag free but in general the performance was pretty decent since mondays patch.

I really don't understand why organised guilds should be further nerfed. Nothing was handed to us on a platter. We struggled as a guild to achieve cohesion and balance in order to perform at our maximum capacity unlike the pug horde (which usually is followed by organised and semi organised guilds) which will chase us like your small group to the end of the map like rabid dogs mindlesly spamming skills and rezing even if we kill a lot of them. And honestly even if we get nerfed again somehow, we will persevere and find a way to fight against the odds which is kinda what we ve been doing since the days of banana squad and what we will still be doing for days to come.

kkravaritieb17_ESO wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

kkravaritieb17_ESO wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Sanct16 wrote: »

@Derra
It's quite convient that none of your suggested changes have any impact on your playstyle, isn't it? I honestly dont see how changing groupsize to ~5 people would improve anything. People would just stop playing because they can't play with their friends in a largescale setting and still get ran over by a 3x 5 man ZS raid. Organisation will always overcome pugging especially with the amount of possibilities you have in this game. If they remove skills like purge and maneuver it will hurt groups ofc but what if we start just sitting in keeps spamming siege and roots on people. Fights will still be endless, nothing will change. Over time there have been so many skills that our raid was supposedly reliant on, yet when those skills got actually nerfed we were still fine, arguably even stronger because we figured out alternatives way before our enemies.

Performance is way better on Sotha Sil than it is on Vivec, so let's remove cp on all campaigns. The server cant handle CP obviously, they are the problem. Or would you disagree - perhaps because it will hurt your preferred playstyle? If so, then what if I told you that our playstyle was better since we dont need CP but yours does, effectively making you responsible for the lag? //not that I'm actually saying so, it's more about delivering a message

Of course there is a point at which you can blame players for causing issues by playing in a way that wasn't intended and the server can't handle (for example I would blame someone who is stacking 3 organised raids for lagging the server). However I honestly think it is extremely questionable that the 12-15 man groups we run is bigger than what the game was designed for, especially considering the history of the game, where for the longest time 24 man or even more was considered the standard for organised raids.
It's like if you buy a new car: If you try to drive with 300 km/h and something breaks it's your fault for pushing the limits of the car. If something breaks while you drive 120 km/h, it's the fault of the company that built the car.

I can only attribute your lack in imagination on how groupsize affects largescale pvp (mostly for the better) on you never having played any other game than ESO that supported largescale open world pvp.

I´ve personally played four titles that placed a major focus on largescale open world pvp and retrospectively it´s very clear why the titles with somewhat chaotic fights (large scale small groups) were much better than the organised (large scale large group) titles.

Maybe you´ll play CU, maybe they´ll stick to their groupsize of 6 to 10. Maybe you´ll understand what i mean then.

Otherwise you can join me in TS and i´ll explain to you why the groupsize in eso is problematic in relation to the total amount of enemies it allows you to handle.
It has nothing to do with me wanting something bad for you personally. I want to participate in everythign pvp has to offer. Largegroups deny everyone not running a large group that possibility.
Smaller groups do/would not be able to achieve that.
The key for me is possibility of participation (the lag it creates is just a bonus).

The problem with your car analogy is: Yeah you´re maybe going 120mph - but youre towing 4 orther cars while doing so - which you ofc comfortably ignore.
I´ve said many times: The problem is not your groupsize. It´s the sheer amout of players you can attract (and need to for a desireable AP/H) and not die while farming them over and over creating fight symbols attracting more players in the process.
The fights last too long. It work in a way that either you kill them shortly after the first engagement or they kill you.

There lies the most important problem on your last argument the fact that death means kinda nothing in this game. Once we kill people they just rez in our face and we can't do much about it and that's mostly why the fights are prolonged unnecesarily. Since it's impossible for us to kill the zombie horde we have to settle for surviving long enough against them. We repeatedly asked zos to add even a small 20-30 sec cd on soul gem rezing after the first rez but to no avail.

And i 100% agree. Rezzing should cost atleast 100 ultimate and be interrupted by every attack (like placing camps/siege).
Burning camps should not be interrupted by anything.

The problem remaining would be large groups forming an exclusive club where they have no competition outside of other large groups.
I´d be in favor of making the zombiehorde killable but also breaking the largegroup monarchy on pvp at the same time

Edit: In a way that when good groups finally can bring closure to an outnumbered fight they need to reduce the amount of people these groups can handle and win - because as you said: when half of the DC faction is following you and you can kill half of an entire faction that´s not healthy for the game imo.

MLRPZ wrote: »

@Derra were you here yesterday prime time to witness the scroll fight or even roe fight ? How can those fight be perfectly lag free with no server crash involved and sometimes server just can't handle.
We literally fought the entire D.C pop with a 14 man group between roe and fare as nothing else was happening on the map D.C side and yet the server was handling just fine

I was - it wouldn´t call it exactly lag free but in general the performance was pretty decent since mondays patch.

I really don't understand why organised guilds should be further nerfed. Nothing was handed to us on a platter. We struggled as a guild to achieve cohesion and balance in order to perform at our maximum capacity unlike the pug horde (which usually is followed by organised and semi organised guilds) which will chase us like your small group to the end of the map like rabid dogs mindlesly spamming skills and rezing even if we kill a lot of them. And honestly even if we get nerfed again somehow, we will persevere and find a way to fight against the odds which is kinda what we ve been doing since the days of banana squad and what we will still be doing for days to come.

As i´ve said in my edit:
If you were to nerf rezzing (to make the pugtrain killable) you need to weaken the current potential of ballgroups.
You state yourself that you fought the a large part of the DC faction and i´ve seen it.

You really think it would be good for the game if one group could roflstomp a majority of one whole factions pvp players?

Derra wrote: »

kkravaritieb17_ESO wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

kkravaritieb17_ESO wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Sanct16 wrote: »

@Derra
It's quite convient that none of your suggested changes have any impact on your playstyle, isn't it? I honestly dont see how changing groupsize to ~5 people would improve anything. People would just stop playing because they can't play with their friends in a largescale setting and still get ran over by a 3x 5 man ZS raid. Organisation will always overcome pugging especially with the amount of possibilities you have in this game. If they remove skills like purge and maneuver it will hurt groups ofc but what if we start just sitting in keeps spamming siege and roots on people. Fights will still be endless, nothing will change. Over time there have been so many skills that our raid was supposedly reliant on, yet when those skills got actually nerfed we were still fine, arguably even stronger because we figured out alternatives way before our enemies.

Performance is way better on Sotha Sil than it is on Vivec, so let's remove cp on all campaigns. The server cant handle CP obviously, they are the problem. Or would you disagree - perhaps because it will hurt your preferred playstyle? If so, then what if I told you that our playstyle was better since we dont need CP but yours does, effectively making you responsible for the lag? //not that I'm actually saying so, it's more about delivering a message

Of course there is a point at which you can blame players for causing issues by playing in a way that wasn't intended and the server can't handle (for example I would blame someone who is stacking 3 organised raids for lagging the server). However I honestly think it is extremely questionable that the 12-15 man groups we run is bigger than what the game was designed for, especially considering the history of the game, where for the longest time 24 man or even more was considered the standard for organised raids.
It's like if you buy a new car: If you try to drive with 300 km/h and something breaks it's your fault for pushing the limits of the car. If something breaks while you drive 120 km/h, it's the fault of the company that built the car.

I can only attribute your lack in imagination on how groupsize affects largescale pvp (mostly for the better) on you never having played any other game than ESO that supported largescale open world pvp.

I´ve personally played four titles that placed a major focus on largescale open world pvp and retrospectively it´s very clear why the titles with somewhat chaotic fights (large scale small groups) were much better than the organised (large scale large group) titles.

Maybe you´ll play CU, maybe they´ll stick to their groupsize of 6 to 10. Maybe you´ll understand what i mean then.

Otherwise you can join me in TS and i´ll explain to you why the groupsize in eso is problematic in relation to the total amount of enemies it allows you to handle.
It has nothing to do with me wanting something bad for you personally. I want to participate in everythign pvp has to offer. Largegroups deny everyone not running a large group that possibility.
Smaller groups do/would not be able to achieve that.
The key for me is possibility of participation (the lag it creates is just a bonus).

The problem with your car analogy is: Yeah you´re maybe going 120mph - but youre towing 4 orther cars while doing so - which you ofc comfortably ignore.
I´ve said many times: The problem is not your groupsize. It´s the sheer amout of players you can attract (and need to for a desireable AP/H) and not die while farming them over and over creating fight symbols attracting more players in the process.
The fights last too long. It work in a way that either you kill them shortly after the first engagement or they kill you.

There lies the most important problem on your last argument the fact that death means kinda nothing in this game. Once we kill people they just rez in our face and we can't do much about it and that's mostly why the fights are prolonged unnecesarily. Since it's impossible for us to kill the zombie horde we have to settle for surviving long enough against them. We repeatedly asked zos to add even a small 20-30 sec cd on soul gem rezing after the first rez but to no avail.

And i 100% agree. Rezzing should cost atleast 100 ultimate and be interrupted by every attack (like placing camps/siege).
Burning camps should not be interrupted by anything.

The problem remaining would be large groups forming an exclusive club where they have no competition outside of other large groups.
I´d be in favor of making the zombiehorde killable but also breaking the largegroup monarchy on pvp at the same time

Edit: In a way that when good groups finally can bring closure to an outnumbered fight they need to reduce the amount of people these groups can handle and win - because as you said: when half of the DC faction is following you and you can kill half of an entire faction that´s not healthy for the game imo.

MLRPZ wrote: »

@Derra were you here yesterday prime time to witness the scroll fight or even roe fight ? How can those fight be perfectly lag free with no server crash involved and sometimes server just can't handle.
We literally fought the entire D.C pop with a 14 man group between roe and fare as nothing else was happening on the map D.C side and yet the server was handling just fine

I was - it wouldn´t call it exactly lag free but in general the performance was pretty decent since mondays patch.

I really don't understand why organised guilds should be further nerfed. Nothing was handed to us on a platter. We struggled as a guild to achieve cohesion and balance in order to perform at our maximum capacity unlike the pug horde (which usually is followed by organised and semi organised guilds) which will chase us like your small group to the end of the map like rabid dogs mindlesly spamming skills and rezing even if we kill a lot of them. And honestly even if we get nerfed again somehow, we will persevere and find a way to fight against the odds which is kinda what we ve been doing since the days of banana squad and what we will still be doing for days to come.

As i´ve said in my edit:
If you were to nerf rezzing (to make the pugtrain killable) you need to weaken the current potential of ballgroups.
You state yourself that you fought the a large part of the DC faction and i´ve seen it.

You really think it would be good for the game if one group could roflstomp a majority of one whole factions pvp players?

I totally agree, IF they do something about the resses (amongst some other things) they should nerf groups too.

kuro-dono wrote: »

its just so damn simple> friendlyfire and player collision, nobody wants to be on hug range with 20+ other ppl.
sadly ppl are so scared of the next generation griefers/trollers who would abuse this. but obviously, any decent, able dev team would start kicking/banning actively griefing/trolling ppl. ( plus side, this would allow you to kill any troll/griefer who has taken scroll just to annoy the faction he/she is part of. )

if this doesnt kill lagg, then i dont know what would. i mean there is other option, disable aoe abilities completely, but that would cause outrage in suicidebombers and the small scalers vs X folks. ( i didnt include aoe choo choo in small scalers as they honestly arent really small scaling, they are aoe choo choo:ing. )

Friendly fire and collision are too complicated for the potato servers of Zenimax to handle.

Derra wrote: »

kkravaritieb17_ESO wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

kkravaritieb17_ESO wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Sanct16 wrote: »

@Derra
It's quite convient that none of your suggested changes have any impact on your playstyle, isn't it? I honestly dont see how changing groupsize to ~5 people would improve anything. People would just stop playing because they can't play with their friends in a largescale setting and still get ran over by a 3x 5 man ZS raid. Organisation will always overcome pugging especially with the amount of possibilities you have in this game. If they remove skills like purge and maneuver it will hurt groups ofc but what if we start just sitting in keeps spamming siege and roots on people. Fights will still be endless, nothing will change. Over time there have been so many skills that our raid was supposedly reliant on, yet when those skills got actually nerfed we were still fine, arguably even stronger because we figured out alternatives way before our enemies.

Performance is way better on Sotha Sil than it is on Vivec, so let's remove cp on all campaigns. The server cant handle CP obviously, they are the problem. Or would you disagree - perhaps because it will hurt your preferred playstyle? If so, then what if I told you that our playstyle was better since we dont need CP but yours does, effectively making you responsible for the lag? //not that I'm actually saying so, it's more about delivering a message

Of course there is a point at which you can blame players for causing issues by playing in a way that wasn't intended and the server can't handle (for example I would blame someone who is stacking 3 organised raids for lagging the server). However I honestly think it is extremely questionable that the 12-15 man groups we run is bigger than what the game was designed for, especially considering the history of the game, where for the longest time 24 man or even more was considered the standard for organised raids.
It's like if you buy a new car: If you try to drive with 300 km/h and something breaks it's your fault for pushing the limits of the car. If something breaks while you drive 120 km/h, it's the fault of the company that built the car.

I can only attribute your lack in imagination on how groupsize affects largescale pvp (mostly for the better) on you never having played any other game than ESO that supported largescale open world pvp.

I´ve personally played four titles that placed a major focus on largescale open world pvp and retrospectively it´s very clear why the titles with somewhat chaotic fights (large scale small groups) were much better than the organised (large scale large group) titles.

Maybe you´ll play CU, maybe they´ll stick to their groupsize of 6 to 10. Maybe you´ll understand what i mean then.

Otherwise you can join me in TS and i´ll explain to you why the groupsize in eso is problematic in relation to the total amount of enemies it allows you to handle.
It has nothing to do with me wanting something bad for you personally. I want to participate in everythign pvp has to offer. Largegroups deny everyone not running a large group that possibility.
Smaller groups do/would not be able to achieve that.
The key for me is possibility of participation (the lag it creates is just a bonus).

The problem with your car analogy is: Yeah you´re maybe going 120mph - but youre towing 4 orther cars while doing so - which you ofc comfortably ignore.
I´ve said many times: The problem is not your groupsize. It´s the sheer amout of players you can attract (and need to for a desireable AP/H) and not die while farming them over and over creating fight symbols attracting more players in the process.
The fights last too long. It work in a way that either you kill them shortly after the first engagement or they kill you.

There lies the most important problem on your last argument the fact that death means kinda nothing in this game. Once we kill people they just rez in our face and we can't do much about it and that's mostly why the fights are prolonged unnecesarily. Since it's impossible for us to kill the zombie horde we have to settle for surviving long enough against them. We repeatedly asked zos to add even a small 20-30 sec cd on soul gem rezing after the first rez but to no avail.

And i 100% agree. Rezzing should cost atleast 100 ultimate and be interrupted by every attack (like placing camps/siege).
Burning camps should not be interrupted by anything.

The problem remaining would be large groups forming an exclusive club where they have no competition outside of other large groups.
I´d be in favor of making the zombiehorde killable but also breaking the largegroup monarchy on pvp at the same time

Edit: In a way that when good groups finally can bring closure to an outnumbered fight they need to reduce the amount of people these groups can handle and win - because as you said: when half of the DC faction is following you and you can kill half of an entire faction that´s not healthy for the game imo.

MLRPZ wrote: »

@Derra were you here yesterday prime time to witness the scroll fight or even roe fight ? How can those fight be perfectly lag free with no server crash involved and sometimes server just can't handle.
We literally fought the entire D.C pop with a 14 man group between roe and fare as nothing else was happening on the map D.C side and yet the server was handling just fine

I was - it wouldn´t call it exactly lag free but in general the performance was pretty decent since mondays patch.

I really don't understand why organised guilds should be further nerfed. Nothing was handed to us on a platter. We struggled as a guild to achieve cohesion and balance in order to perform at our maximum capacity unlike the pug horde (which usually is followed by organised and semi organised guilds) which will chase us like your small group to the end of the map like rabid dogs mindlesly spamming skills and rezing even if we kill a lot of them. And honestly even if we get nerfed again somehow, we will persevere and find a way to fight against the odds which is kinda what we ve been doing since the days of banana squad and what we will still be doing for days to come.

As i´ve said in my edit:
If you were to nerf rezzing (to make the pugtrain killable) you need to weaken the current potential of ballgroups.
You state yourself that you fought the a large part of the DC faction and i´ve seen it.

You really think it would be good for the game if one group could roflstomp a majority of one whole factions pvp players?

I never specifically said that if they change the rezzing system that we should stay as powerful as we are atm but knowing zos tendency to cater to the casuals I sincerely doubt they will change rezzing in any way. But one thing we all can admit is that the current rezzing system causes mostly the bottleneck and endless fights which are in turn causing lags.

Now the rollbacks are a different story and I am pretty sure it has something to do with the code on cp campaign since they started a little before homestead and i ve never witness something similar happen on no cp under the same circumstances.