STOP EU SERVER CRASHES!!!!!

Sanct16

Iyas wrote: »

Rin_Senya wrote: »

Only @Derra knows how to play this game right and how everyone have to play

His playstyle is def better than yours. Maybe zos will see that someday and dont allow the zs style anymore

Biased post is biased.

Maybe they will just remove keeps, would probably also fix lag and your playstlye - officially the best playstyle doesnt involve keeps. So what is the point in having keeps?

Derra

MLRPZ wrote: »

So everything fine with a whole faction stacking @Derra ?

You mostly wouldn´t get a whole faction to stack if it wasn´t for the survivavility largegroups provide.

Rin_Senya wrote: »

Only @Derra knows how to play this game right and how everyone have to play

I don´t claim anything is right.
But saying nothing is wrong with a playstyle creating performance issues for everyone on the server (and be it only by the amount of enemies you attract) is either living in absolute denial of the truth or blantantly lying (which is probably the same).

Sanct16 wrote: »

You know, instead of of flaming each other we could also try to get ZOS to figure out why EU server is so much more poop than NA, since later one seems to handle everything just fine, even with similar groups as ZS running.
Saying organised groups as a whole need to be exterminated seems a bit unreflected tho... it's a bit like saying you shouldnt do trials with a guild but only pugs.

The playstyle is one of the root issues of performance problems though.
Trials in guilds don´t impair the functionality of trials for anyone else.

Running with 16 to 24 people not dying unless outnumbered 3 or 4 to one does impair the functionality (of the server) for everyone (if multiple groups do it).

Derra

Sanct16 wrote: »

Iyas wrote: »

Rin_Senya wrote: »

Only @Derra knows how to play this game right and how everyone have to play

His playstyle is def better than yours. Maybe zos will see that someday and dont allow the zs style anymore

Biased post is biased.

Maybe they will just remove keeps, would probably also fix lag and your playstlye - officially the best playstyle doesnt involve keeps. So what is the point in having keeps?

Ironically highly organized large groups (or just stacking enough healers) prevent smaller ones from participating in keepfights because they are the alpha and omega for pvp.
You can only fight a large group with a similar working group.
Which makes any keepfight with such a group involved just a no go zone for non blob groups.

It has nothing to do with keeps - just with the impact of a certain playstyle shaping the pvp reality.

incite

just go bg's

oh wait..

Soulac

PvP in cyrodiil is ***

MarzAttakz

The salt and flames are entertaining but before I get hit with the get-outta-our-thread stick I just want to say that something needs to be done with regards to stream-lining their code (network and calculations) and improving their hardware.

A 3 year-old "AAA" MMO with server instances crashing is ridiculous.

If Eve Online can do it (despite time-dilation involving 250v250) and Guild Wars 2 can do it (think tier 1 WvW blobs in the region of 50v50+ engagements with AOE, boon sharing + ripping, condition ticks etc) then why can ESO not even handle 20v20 adequetly?

Seriously, spend some of that DOSH you make off of us and improve your product ZOS.

MLRPZ

LOL you really think ESO is AAA ? XD

Etaniel

MLRPZ wrote: »

LOL you really think ESO is AAA ? XD

The price tag is certainly that of a AAA title.....

Miruku

ESO= Triple A look at that trailers op!

G0ku

@Derra has point in what he is saying, and I´m surely not biased towards him

It is you and your crew who is inflating the server on certain sectors by always disrupting fight between the two other opposing factions.

You planning on getting both factions for maximum amount of AP, obviously so as everytime you enter the fight one of your friends/guildies/fanboys who kept playing on AD side yells in zonechat "don´t attack red, don´t attack red". Your claim in other discussions you´re not after AP gets refuted by your raid member boasting about how much AP/hour they achieve while doing so.

I don´t say it´s your fault, it´s another one´s job to fix the server but your tactic of pushing into a green fight is the straw to break the camel's back every single time and somehow the servers don´t recover the whole evening. As soon as I saw you entering Alessia with your compulsory shoutout to AD to not attack the reds made me leave pvp at once as I knew what was coming this evening.

And no, the reason is not hurr-durr-butthurt but the disgust at your complete ignorance regarding this problem by always seeking three-faction-gangbangs...

It´s not you guys alone but you are the outstanding example of what brings the server down to his knees.

Maybe it´s your unmatched and unrivalled skill that makes you smash abilities godlike fast? (just a little stroke to your egos, worth a try to make you think again, as, according to your answers to other people on this thread indicates, your egos seems to be as enormous as the lag you seem to cause).

To stultify anything people bring to this discussion won´t help, just shows how full of yourself you are.

Valencer

I don't know, Im lagging just fine even when (Im pretty sure) ZS isnt running. Plenty of server crashes too.

It's just what prime time PvP has devolved into with all the changes made over the years. There's 0 attempt to spread out anymore and people just stack and stack until there's only 1 or 2 fights on the whole map and the server can't handle it anymore.

No need to find scapegoats. If anything it's at least refreshing that there's still some people trying to do their own thing and having an impact on the map without the whole alliance backing them.

Lieblingsjunge

G0ku wrote: »

@Derra has point in what he is saying, and I´m surely not biased towards him

It is you and your crew who is inflating the server on certain sectors by always disrupting fight between the two other opposing factions.

You planning on getting both factions for maximum amount of AP, obviously so as everytime you enter the fight one of your friends/guildies/fanboys who kept playing on AD side yells in zonechat "don´t attack red, don´t attack red". Your claim in other discussions you´re not after AP gets refuted by your raid member boasting about how much AP/hour they achieve while doing so.

I don´t say it´s your fault, it´s another one´s job to fix the server but your tactic of pushing into a green fight is the straw to break the camel's back every single time and somehow the servers don´t recover the whole evening. As soon as I saw you entering Alessia with your compulsory shoutout to AD to not attack the reds made me leave pvp at once as I knew what was coming this evening.

And no, the reason is not hurr-durr-butthurt but the disgust at your complete ignorance regarding this problem by always seeking three-faction-gangbangs...

It´s not you guys alone but you are the outstanding example of what brings the server down to his knees.

Maybe it´s your unmatched and unrivalled skill that makes you smash abilities godlike fast? (just a little stroke to your egos, worth a try to make you think again, as, according to your answers to other people on this thread indicates, your egos seems to be as enormous as the lag you seem to cause).

To stultify anything people bring to this discussion won´t help, just shows how full of yourself you are.

Why is all the blame put towards one ballgroup, though? There's at least 2-3 on AD-side doing the same - and at least 5 doing it on DC side, whereas EP got 1, maybe 2 doing it. The hatred towards only one specific group is getting old - and boring.

If it was worth fighting for the campaign - if there were any objectives to be taken outside of the mainstream areas - sure fights would spread. Whihc in turn would spread the concentration. That's not ZS' fault is it? And honestly, would it be better if ZS-players or any other ballgroup-players joined up with the LFG-group and spammed ultimates(In-sync, since I know some of us don't like PvPing without voice-chat) , would that make it better? No? Didn't think so, either.

And I don't like your rude attitude towards people belonging to a specific guild. You're judging a group of people based on their guild-tag. Not fair. I do not identify with your "completely ignorant with enourmous ego who's completely full of themselves"-description, m'kay?

Honestly - if you want a discussion about this - outside of forums, hmu in-game. And you'll probably realise that I'm not as ignorant or selfish as you may think we all are. Even without having talked to me once. I don't like generalising.

GeorgeBlack

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4275721#Comment_4275721

Remove /zone chat from Vivec. Less random LFG, less zergs at hot spots, less crashes
Enter PvP guilds. Enter strategic scouting, sieging, ganging.

Iyas

Lieblingsjunge wrote: »

G0ku wrote: »

@Derra has point in what he is saying, and I´m surely not biased towards him

It is you and your crew who is inflating the server on certain sectors by always disrupting fight between the two other opposing factions.

You planning on getting both factions for maximum amount of AP, obviously so as everytime you enter the fight one of your friends/guildies/fanboys who kept playing on AD side yells in zonechat "don´t attack red, don´t attack red". Your claim in other discussions you´re not after AP gets refuted by your raid member boasting about how much AP/hour they achieve while doing so.

I don´t say it´s your fault, it´s another one´s job to fix the server but your tactic of pushing into a green fight is the straw to break the camel's back every single time and somehow the servers don´t recover the whole evening. As soon as I saw you entering Alessia with your compulsory shoutout to AD to not attack the reds made me leave pvp at once as I knew what was coming this evening.

And no, the reason is not hurr-durr-butthurt but the disgust at your complete ignorance regarding this problem by always seeking three-faction-gangbangs...

It´s not you guys alone but you are the outstanding example of what brings the server down to his knees.

Maybe it´s your unmatched and unrivalled skill that makes you smash abilities godlike fast? (just a little stroke to your egos, worth a try to make you think again, as, according to your answers to other people on this thread indicates, your egos seems to be as enormous as the lag you seem to cause).

To stultify anything people bring to this discussion won´t help, just shows how full of yourself you are.

Why is all the blame put towards one ballgroup, though? There's at least 2-3 on AD-side doing the same - and at least 5 doing it on DC side, whereas EP got 1, maybe 2 doing it. The hatred towards only one specific group is getting old - and boring.

If it was worth fighting for the campaign - if there were any objectives to be taken outside of the mainstream areas - sure fights would spread. Whihc in turn would spread the concentration. That's not ZS' fault is it? And honestly, would it be better if ZS-players or any other ballgroup-players joined up with the LFG-group and spammed ultimates(In-sync, since I know some of us don't like PvPing without voice-chat) , would that make it better? No? Didn't think so, either.

And I don't like your rude attitude towards people belonging to a specific guild. You're judging a group of people based on their guild-tag. Not fair. I do not identify with your "completely ignorant with enourmous ego who's completely full of themselves"-description, m'kay?

Honestly - if you want a discussion about this - outside of forums, hmu in-game. And you'll probably realise that I'm not as ignorant or selfish as you may think we all are. Even without having talked to me once. I don't like generalising.

Because ZS is the best ballgrp out there and drawing the attention of a huge crowd.

kuro-dono

Sanct16 wrote: »

You know, instead of of flaming each other we could also try to get ZOS to figure out why EU server is so much more poop than NA, since later one seems to handle everything just fine, even with similar groups as ZS running.
Saying organised groups as a whole need to be exterminated seems a bit unreflected tho... it's a bit like saying you shouldnt do trials with a guild but only pugs.

organized groups is actually quite fine, just add tiny change aoe friendlyfire and player collision. that would affects zergs more than you guys so it should be okay.

Derra

Lieblingsjunge wrote: »

G0ku wrote: »

@Derra has point in what he is saying, and I´m surely not biased towards him

It is you and your crew who is inflating the server on certain sectors by always disrupting fight between the two other opposing factions.

You planning on getting both factions for maximum amount of AP, obviously so as everytime you enter the fight one of your friends/guildies/fanboys who kept playing on AD side yells in zonechat "don´t attack red, don´t attack red". Your claim in other discussions you´re not after AP gets refuted by your raid member boasting about how much AP/hour they achieve while doing so.

I don´t say it´s your fault, it´s another one´s job to fix the server but your tactic of pushing into a green fight is the straw to break the camel's back every single time and somehow the servers don´t recover the whole evening. As soon as I saw you entering Alessia with your compulsory shoutout to AD to not attack the reds made me leave pvp at once as I knew what was coming this evening.

And no, the reason is not hurr-durr-butthurt but the disgust at your complete ignorance regarding this problem by always seeking three-faction-gangbangs...

It´s not you guys alone but you are the outstanding example of what brings the server down to his knees.

Maybe it´s your unmatched and unrivalled skill that makes you smash abilities godlike fast? (just a little stroke to your egos, worth a try to make you think again, as, according to your answers to other people on this thread indicates, your egos seems to be as enormous as the lag you seem to cause).

To stultify anything people bring to this discussion won´t help, just shows how full of yourself you are.

Why is all the blame put towards one ballgroup, though? There's at least 2-3 on AD-side doing the same - and at least 5 doing it on DC side, whereas EP got 1, maybe 2 doing it. The hatred towards only one specific group is getting old - and boring.

If it was worth fighting for the campaign - if there were any objectives to be taken outside of the mainstream areas - sure fights would spread. Whihc in turn would spread the concentration. That's not ZS' fault is it? And honestly, would it be better if ZS-players or any other ballgroup-players joined up with the LFG-group and spammed ultimates(In-sync, since I know some of us don't like PvPing without voice-chat) , would that make it better? No? Didn't think so, either.

And I don't like your rude attitude towards people belonging to a specific guild. You're judging a group of people based on their guild-tag. Not fair. I do not identify with your "completely ignorant with enourmous ego who's completely full of themselves"-description, m'kay?

Honestly - if you want a discussion about this - outside of forums, hmu in-game. And you'll probably realise that I'm not as ignorant or selfish as you may think we all are. Even without having talked to me once. I don't like generalising.

You´re the best at not dying for extended periods of time while attracting and farming as many enemies as possible for maxium ap gain (which due to esos possible groupsize is more than the server can handle).
You´re the figurehead of that particular playstyle on the EU server (and you´re kinda working for that aswell).

LarsS

Sanct16 wrote: »

You know, instead of of flaming each other we could also try to get ZOS to figure out why EU server is so much more poop than NA, since later one seems to handle everything just fine, even with similar groups as ZS running.
Saying organised groups as a whole need to be exterminated seems a bit unreflected tho... it's a bit like saying you shouldnt do trials with a guild but only pugs.

I agree with Sanct, we should try to get ZOS to care about the EU server and also about pvp in general. Cyrodiil was designed for largescale battles and alliance war, but presently it hardly works as intended and ZOS does not seem to care about pvp.

Magıc

Derra wrote: »

Lieblingsjunge wrote: »

G0ku wrote: »

@Derra has point in what he is saying, and I´m surely not biased towards him

It is you and your crew who is inflating the server on certain sectors by always disrupting fight between the two other opposing factions.

You planning on getting both factions for maximum amount of AP, obviously so as everytime you enter the fight one of your friends/guildies/fanboys who kept playing on AD side yells in zonechat "don´t attack red, don´t attack red". Your claim in other discussions you´re not after AP gets refuted by your raid member boasting about how much AP/hour they achieve while doing so.

I don´t say it´s your fault, it´s another one´s job to fix the server but your tactic of pushing into a green fight is the straw to break the camel's back every single time and somehow the servers don´t recover the whole evening. As soon as I saw you entering Alessia with your compulsory shoutout to AD to not attack the reds made me leave pvp at once as I knew what was coming this evening.

And no, the reason is not hurr-durr-butthurt but the disgust at your complete ignorance regarding this problem by always seeking three-faction-gangbangs...

It´s not you guys alone but you are the outstanding example of what brings the server down to his knees.

Maybe it´s your unmatched and unrivalled skill that makes you smash abilities godlike fast? (just a little stroke to your egos, worth a try to make you think again, as, according to your answers to other people on this thread indicates, your egos seems to be as enormous as the lag you seem to cause).

To stultify anything people bring to this discussion won´t help, just shows how full of yourself you are.

Why is all the blame put towards one ballgroup, though? There's at least 2-3 on AD-side doing the same - and at least 5 doing it on DC side, whereas EP got 1, maybe 2 doing it. The hatred towards only one specific group is getting old - and boring.

If it was worth fighting for the campaign - if there were any objectives to be taken outside of the mainstream areas - sure fights would spread. Whihc in turn would spread the concentration. That's not ZS' fault is it? And honestly, would it be better if ZS-players or any other ballgroup-players joined up with the LFG-group and spammed ultimates(In-sync, since I know some of us don't like PvPing without voice-chat) , would that make it better? No? Didn't think so, either.

And I don't like your rude attitude towards people belonging to a specific guild. You're judging a group of people based on their guild-tag. Not fair. I do not identify with your "completely ignorant with enourmous ego who's completely full of themselves"-description, m'kay?

Honestly - if you want a discussion about this - outside of forums, hmu in-game. And you'll probably realise that I'm not as ignorant or selfish as you may think we all are. Even without having talked to me once. I don't like generalising.

You´re the best at not dying for extended periods of time while attracting and farming as many enemies as possible for maxium ap gain (which due to esos possible groupsize is more than the server can handle).
You´re the figurehead of that particular playstyle on the EU server (and you´re kinda working for that aswell).

Why does the server crash mostly when ZS isn't fighting?
Why does the server crash just as much when ZS isn't even online/on another campaign?

Derra

Magıc wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Lieblingsjunge wrote: »

G0ku wrote: »

@Derra has point in what he is saying, and I´m surely not biased towards him

It is you and your crew who is inflating the server on certain sectors by always disrupting fight between the two other opposing factions.

You planning on getting both factions for maximum amount of AP, obviously so as everytime you enter the fight one of your friends/guildies/fanboys who kept playing on AD side yells in zonechat "don´t attack red, don´t attack red". Your claim in other discussions you´re not after AP gets refuted by your raid member boasting about how much AP/hour they achieve while doing so.

I don´t say it´s your fault, it´s another one´s job to fix the server but your tactic of pushing into a green fight is the straw to break the camel's back every single time and somehow the servers don´t recover the whole evening. As soon as I saw you entering Alessia with your compulsory shoutout to AD to not attack the reds made me leave pvp at once as I knew what was coming this evening.

And no, the reason is not hurr-durr-butthurt but the disgust at your complete ignorance regarding this problem by always seeking three-faction-gangbangs...

It´s not you guys alone but you are the outstanding example of what brings the server down to his knees.

Maybe it´s your unmatched and unrivalled skill that makes you smash abilities godlike fast? (just a little stroke to your egos, worth a try to make you think again, as, according to your answers to other people on this thread indicates, your egos seems to be as enormous as the lag you seem to cause).

To stultify anything people bring to this discussion won´t help, just shows how full of yourself you are.

Why is all the blame put towards one ballgroup, though? There's at least 2-3 on AD-side doing the same - and at least 5 doing it on DC side, whereas EP got 1, maybe 2 doing it. The hatred towards only one specific group is getting old - and boring.

If it was worth fighting for the campaign - if there were any objectives to be taken outside of the mainstream areas - sure fights would spread. Whihc in turn would spread the concentration. That's not ZS' fault is it? And honestly, would it be better if ZS-players or any other ballgroup-players joined up with the LFG-group and spammed ultimates(In-sync, since I know some of us don't like PvPing without voice-chat) , would that make it better? No? Didn't think so, either.

And I don't like your rude attitude towards people belonging to a specific guild. You're judging a group of people based on their guild-tag. Not fair. I do not identify with your "completely ignorant with enourmous ego who's completely full of themselves"-description, m'kay?

Honestly - if you want a discussion about this - outside of forums, hmu in-game. And you'll probably realise that I'm not as ignorant or selfish as you may think we all are. Even without having talked to me once. I don't like generalising.

You´re the best at not dying for extended periods of time while attracting and farming as many enemies as possible for maxium ap gain (which due to esos possible groupsize is more than the server can handle).
You´re the figurehead of that particular playstyle on the EU server (and you´re kinda working for that aswell).

Why does the server crash mostly when ZS isn't fighting?
Why does the server crash just as much when ZS isn't even online/on another campaign?

As i stated earlier - it´s literally the groupsize of eso and the survivability it provides. It´s the playstyle that many try to mirror and as far as EU server goes ZS is the best that everyone tries to copy.
That´s why they get the hate.

Blacksword PvP, Bis zum letzten Mann, Zergsquad, Unfriendly Fire, decimation elite - it´s honestly all the same for me.
I find it a little more despicable for those groups that only farm ap and don´t care about campaign at all, but that´s about it.

It´s bad for the game and the people doing it deem their personal fun/gain more important than people trying to play the game not in that way.

Edit: Oh and ofc i find it absolutely ironic that a ballgroup complains about a crashing server. It´s absurd.

MLRPZ

why is it absurd ? do you think because we play bombgroup we appreciate rollbacks/loadingscreens/queues/lag and crashes ?
We just want to play, just like you

Derra

MLRPZ wrote: »

why is it absurd ? do you think because we play bombgroup we appreciate rollbacks/loadingscreens/queues/lag and crashes ?
We just want to play, just like you

Yeah but you play in a way that has direct and indirect effects on serverperformance - moreso than other ways of playing the game have.
You (and everyone else in any other large semiorganized group) are part of the problem you complain about.

Edit: It´s basically the same thing as the "solo players" fighting blues outside of warden/rayles in the morning while saras/bigboss is inside taking the keep/scrolls.

Sandman929

Derra wrote: »

MLRPZ wrote: »

why is it absurd ? do you think because we play bombgroup we appreciate rollbacks/loadingscreens/queues/lag and crashes ?
We just want to play, just like you

Yeah but you play in a way that has direct and indirect effects on serverperformance - moreso than other ways of playing the game have.
You (and everyone else in any other large semiorganized group) are part of the problem you complain about.

The servers themselves are most of the problem.

GeorgeBlack

We rly shouldn't fight with our less skilled zergling friends when it comes to Cyro lags and crashes.
We should also by now accept that ZOS may not be able to do complecated repairs to the game.

So.....

Look for simple solutions and get ZOS' attention

Sandman929

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

We rly shouldn't fight with our less skilled zergling friends when it comes to Cyro lags and crashes.
We should also by now accept that ZOS may not be able to do complecated repairs to the game.

So.....

Look for simple solutions and get ZOS' attention

Do you put on a leather jacket and sunglasses to write this for maximum coolness?

GeorgeBlack

Jack of +1 coolness equipped
Guise of Sun Block +1 coolness equipped.
Casting: Post
Forum skillz lv up to Level 4.

MLRPZ

Derra wrote: »

MLRPZ wrote: »

why is it absurd ? do you think because we play bombgroup we appreciate rollbacks/loadingscreens/queues/lag and crashes ?
We just want to play, just like you

Yeah but you play in a way that has direct and indirect effects on serverperformance - moreso than other ways of playing the game have.
You (and everyone else in any other large semiorganized group) are part of the problem you complain about.

Edit: It´s basically the same thing as the "solo players" fighting blues outside of warden/rayles in the morning while saras/bigboss is inside taking the keep/scrolls.

So if everyone is the problem, maybe we should all accept that the problem is not on our end ?

That's why we decided to post multiples threads, just to try and catch ZOS attention on this issue. Tho I genuinly doubt it will happen..

Derra

MLRPZ wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

MLRPZ wrote: »

why is it absurd ? do you think because we play bombgroup we appreciate rollbacks/loadingscreens/queues/lag and crashes ?
We just want to play, just like you

Yeah but you play in a way that has direct and indirect effects on serverperformance - moreso than other ways of playing the game have.
You (and everyone else in any other large semiorganized group) are part of the problem you complain about.

Edit: It´s basically the same thing as the "solo players" fighting blues outside of warden/rayles in the morning while saras/bigboss is inside taking the keep/scrolls.

So if everyone is the problem, maybe we should all accept that the problem is not on our end ?

That's why we decided to post multiples threads, just to try and catch ZOS attention on this issue. Tho I genuinly doubt it will happen..

Ofc it´s also on the players end just as much as it´s on ZOS.

Imo it´s on zos to fix playerbehavior as players won´t fix that themselves. I don´t think a code solution is possible at this point (either due to ressources it would require or due to being impossible to begin with).

Just gut the total groupsize to a point where it´s undesirable to have superspecific buffbots (ie rapidspambot) and make aoe healcaps subject to battlespirit reduction aswell as nonsingletarget heals only affect groupmembers.

Soulac

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4275721#Comment_4275721

Remove /zone chat from Vivec. Less random LFG, less zergs at hot spots, less crashes
Enter PvP guilds. Enter strategic scouting, sieging, ganging.

Probably as effective as removing deers.

Docmandu

Lagging the server is one thing... that can only be fixed by structural changes or making the ZS playstyle impossible.

but the friggin server crashing all the time is another thing.. that should NEVER happen, not even if the entire server stacks on the same damn pixel in Cyrodiil ! That's just crappy ZOS not prioritizing severe bugs, as in loss of service to customers. Worst of all, they just totally ignore the issue.. not even "We're aware, looking into it, no ETA" ... nothing!

Abysmal customer support IMHO!

Venom4You

Instead of simply agreeing that the european server performance leaves much to desire and thereby ecourage ZOS of finally trying harder to get PVP working as it should, people rather come here to blame a certain "evil" playstyle and one specific guild for the issues just because they initiated this post.
It's just great. As long as this endless "your fault, no YOUR fault" whining is going on, ZOS will sigh in relief being able to move on without adressing major PVP issues. Why should they feed the wolves that devour each other?
I honestly can't hear it anymore. This is an AvAvA game. Like in all other games of this type coordinated guild play should be allowed and possible, using and optimizing mechanics provided by the game. ZOS made enough changes in the last years that ultimately killed off a lot of guilds because they just couldn't run successfully anymore - One needs dedicated and good people to run a PVP raid successful nowadays. Otherwise one doesn't stand a chance against the flood of players. Sth just very few guilds seem to still achieve. I mean one guild is hardly to blame for casual pugs (and many guilds) that keep lining up willingly in the hundreds, eager to zerg down 16 peps, but getting farmed in the process because there is just no learning process on their side. And that's ok. While one party evolves and adapts, the casual party doesn't bother. It's been like this in all PVP games - Solution: Exterminate the party that actually does care about strategic raid gameplay? I hope not... People need to grow up and stop blaming other community members for server lagg and inbalance of Cyrodiil PVP. The truely guilty do not comment on anything related to PVP and let the community tear itsself appart, so ultimately noone will be left to consume resources that could be better invested in profitable pve story dlcs