Don't you wish you could pick your (race) passives?

zaria · June 2017

subtlezeroub17_ESO wrote: »

Vercingetorix wrote: »

SydneyGrey wrote: »

I wish I could play a Redguard as a magicka character. I mean, technically I *could*, but she'd be crippled in end-game content. Yeah, that kind of sucks.

Then don't pick a Redguard. Problem Solved.

[snip] Like I understand you love your lore (I do too) but this is an mmo where you're competing with other people. Racial bonuses have no business in this game.

They need to be either toned down to at most 2% increases or simply removed.

This, make it like the single player games, you get an boost at low levels, perhaps have you level up skill lines much faster, this is in but could be expanded. perhaps even bonus xp for actions.

In an competitive multiplayer game the idea is idiotic. Does any other MMO have stuff like this?
Yes, WOW has class restrictions for races for lore reasons but an tiny gnome could tank as well as an orc something who was annoying as he was hard to see

[Edit to match quoted comment]

HatchetHaro · June 2017

I will play nothing other than Argonians. Unfortunately, this puts me at something of a disadvantage to other players on their optimal races.

The fact that I'm a Flawless Conquerer on my Argonian stamDK proves that non-optimal races can still be viable. However, when it comes to DPS, which is the general benchmark for performance in the end-game, I always have to be better than the others just so my damage can keep up. Nothing will hide the fact that the DPS ceiling is always going to be ~10% higher on optimal races compared to non-optimal races.

This 10% may not look like much. However, it is actually a lot, especially in end-game terms, and can mean the difference between a clear and a wipe. In the perspective of end-game raiders, we all want to min-max, and I can't really do that as an Argonian. Several times I've been shunned simply for my racial choice, which is, frankly put, my racial choice. I should not switch from my favorite race just because I want to be viable in the competitive end-game.

A quick note here is that tanking and healing are not as racial-passive-bound. While there may be "optimal races" for both of these supportive roles, there is no performance ceiling for both tanking and healing, and as a result, race choice for these roles aren't as important. Damage-dealing is the only role here that is majorly affected by racial passives.

An argument is that racial passives are all part of TES, and as a result should be in ESO. However, you need to consider this: ESO is not Skyrim. Skyrim is a single-player game; there is no competitive aspect to the game. The racial passives in TES:V is not a problem at all because it's an aspect of role-playing, and people have no problem playing on "non-optimal" races for their playstyle in Skyrim because there's nothing telling them that it's inefficient. There's pretty much no encouragement for the player to min-max in Skyrim. However, in ESO, there is an end-game raiding and PvP scene, both of which are highly competitive, as seen from the leaderboards. Racial passives, in this case, are used as a deciding factor when choosing characters. Min-maxing is a major part of end-game raiding, and unfortunately, this means that many people would decide to play a race that they do not like just to get that 10% damage boost.

Many people don't see this as a problem because, well, "roll a Redguard". However, that is exactly the problem: I should not be making the choice between "play a race you don't like" and "deal 10% less damage than the others" (alternatively, "play your favorite race" and "get a 10% damage boost"). This is why the leaderboards are dominated by Redguard and Khajiit stam DDs and Altmer and Dunmer mag DDs. People have been forced to race-change just to remain viable. This isn't the TES way.

There are some parts of racial passives that I'm fine with: Argonian swim speed, Khajiit sneak, experience gains with certain skill lines; these are all miscellaneous passives that define the races and do not affect the end-game. Regen, healing, and resistances are also fine. However, the most unbalanced ones are the ones that grant extra damage, such as max stamina and magicka as well as straight up damage buffs to certain damage types. Those need to go, or need to be offered to every race.

dodgehopper_ESO · June 2017

The removal of diminishing returns in the game ruined the hybrid builds and particularly things like Mage-Khajiits, Warrior Bretons, etc. Its a real shame that they did this without rethinking the ramifications to thousands of players' builds. I'd like to note that the way weapon damage and spell damage worked was COMPLETELY different at the outset of the game. This Race-Class-Build upheaval is a black eye on an otherwise great game and I really hope they consider how to adjust these things.

Vercingetorix · June 2017

Those who are arguing for racial passives to be removed/changed like to use the "play as you want" tagline, but conveniently forget that the game certainly allows for anyone to play the way they want. The tagline is NOT "Play as you want and be as strong as an optimized person in endgame content".

Khajiit magSorcs and Bosmer magDKs are perfectly fine... outside of HM Vet Trials and vMA. If you want to participate in ALL content (including endgame), roll an optimized setup for the CLASS you want - or accept the fact that you will have to work harder to survive and will be less effective than your teammates, in addition to possibly being asked to leave.

Character race as a "cosmetic choice" is an irrelevant argument when you are covered head to toe in BiS gear and are a vampire-faced freak for the excellent passives. Cosmetics go out the window if you are in endgame content.

That is the sacrifice an endgame player like me makes. If at endgame, I happen to like my armor or vampire face, then it's just icing on the cake. Otherwise, my focus as an endgame player is the Leaderboard and gear drops - it's about stats and nothing else. The vast majority of endgame players (both PvP and PvE) feel the same way.

Whining that your subpar choice isn't BiS is... idiotic, yeah there really isn't another word to describe it. Just roll the ideal race for your class spec and play the endgame content - or don't and go back to quietly picking flowers and fishing while the REAL heroes of Tamriel save the world.

zaria · June 2017

Vercingetorix wrote: »

Those who are arguing for racial passives to be removed/changed like to use the "play as you want" tagline, but conveniently forget that the game certainly allows for anyone to play the way they want. The tagline is NOT "Play as you want and be as strong as an optimized person in endgame content".

Khajiit magSorcs and Bosmer magDKs are perfectly fine... outside of HM Vet Trials and vMA. If you want to participate in ALL content (including endgame), roll an optimized setup for the CLASS you want - or accept the fact that you will have to work harder to survive and will be less effective than your teammates, in addition to possibly being asked to leave.

Character race as a "cosmetic choice" is an irrelevant argument when you are covered head to toe in BiS gear and are a vampire-faced freak for the excellent passives. Cosmetics go out the window if you are in endgame content.

That is the sacrifice an endgame player like me makes. If at endgame, I happen to like my armor or vampire face, then it's just icing on the cake. Otherwise, my focus as an endgame player is the Leaderboard and gear drops - it's about stats and nothing else. The vast majority of endgame players (both PvP and PvE) feel the same way.

Whining that your subpar choice isn't BiS is... idiotic, yeah there really isn't another word to describe it. Just roll the ideal race for your class spec and play the endgame content - or don't and go back to quietly picking flowers and fishing while the REAL heroes of Tamriel save the world.

True, it don't matter that much.
On the other hand arguments against them.
1) it no clear warning then you start an new character, just an subtle description.
2) much the same description in the single player games there the racial bonuses was only important at low levels
3) How was easy single player games with an difficulty slider (outside of daggerfall), while eso is competitive multiplayer
4) its an holdover from the soft caps days, it was not fixed on the change.
5) its an general bad idea to add unbalance in an MMO, why not introduce sexual differences? Men as stronger than females, all games before Skyrim had different stats for sexes. On next update all male charterers get an +10% buff to stamina for balance they get an 10% nerf to magic, females get the opposite so its perfectly balanced.

Arguments for the current strong racial passives.
1) Lore, yes however Morrowind racial passives had far less impact and consensus is that Morrowind is more lore frendly than ESO.
2) lots of players would get an nerf if removed. This is the main point I think.

dodgehopper_ESO · June 2017

Vercingetorix wrote: »

Those who are arguing for racial passives to be removed/changed like to use the "play as you want" tagline, but conveniently forget that the game certainly allows for anyone to play the way they want. The tagline is NOT "Play as you want and be as strong as an optimized person in endgame content".

Khajiit magSorcs and Bosmer magDKs are perfectly fine... outside of HM Vet Trials and vMA. If you want to participate in ALL content (including endgame), roll an optimized setup for the CLASS you want - or accept the fact that you will have to work harder to survive and will be less effective than your teammates, in addition to possibly being asked to leave.

Character race as a "cosmetic choice" is an irrelevant argument when you are covered head to toe in BiS gear and are a vampire-faced freak for the excellent passives. Cosmetics go out the window if you are in endgame content.

That is the sacrifice an endgame player like me makes. If at endgame, I happen to like my armor or vampire face, then it's just icing on the cake. Otherwise, my focus as an endgame player is the Leaderboard and gear drops - it's about stats and nothing else. The vast majority of endgame players (both PvP and PvE) feel the same way.

Whining that your subpar choice isn't BiS is... idiotic, yeah there really isn't another word to describe it. Just roll the ideal race for your class spec and play the endgame content - or don't and go back to quietly picking flowers and fishing while the REAL heroes of Tamriel save the world.

This fails to recognize the fundamental change in the game as I previously stated before your post. I do believe races should have their differences, but I also believe the fundamental rewrite of game rules was unfair to quite a few players who had unique and functional builds before that rewrite. Your post is very elitist without recognizing it lacks some factual depth. I can forgive this to some degree if you played the game after the great rewrite of game systems but even so I do not think you would appreciate it if at the drop of the hat Altmer's suddenly became a stamina race tomorrow. This is more or less what happened to the game. Many races were very sub-optimal as well and in that respect they've certainly made some races more useful. It is clear however that some races have a lot more options in utility and others have very narrowly defined focus that makes them less valuable. I'm not impressed with your argument because you are being dismissive of facts, not because you suggest that players should optimize. I believe people have a right to suggest to the Devs that they'd like to see a system for balance put in place so players can make reasonable builds for all races in the game. As others have stated there is great precedence for this in previous Elder Scroll games. That being said Breton was pretty much the best race every time in previous games although I was able to make good builds with other races they were always more niche. The nice thing about previous games is that the stronger you got the less important your race became.

Vercingetorix · June 2017

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Vercingetorix wrote: »

Those who are arguing for racial passives to be removed/changed like to use the "play as you want" tagline, but conveniently forget that the game certainly allows for anyone to play the way they want. The tagline is NOT "Play as you want and be as strong as an optimized person in endgame content".

Khajiit magSorcs and Bosmer magDKs are perfectly fine... outside of HM Vet Trials and vMA. If you want to participate in ALL content (including endgame), roll an optimized setup for the CLASS you want - or accept the fact that you will have to work harder to survive and will be less effective than your teammates, in addition to possibly being asked to leave.

Character race as a "cosmetic choice" is an irrelevant argument when you are covered head to toe in BiS gear and are a vampire-faced freak for the excellent passives. Cosmetics go out the window if you are in endgame content.

That is the sacrifice an endgame player like me makes. If at endgame, I happen to like my armor or vampire face, then it's just icing on the cake. Otherwise, my focus as an endgame player is the Leaderboard and gear drops - it's about stats and nothing else. The vast majority of endgame players (both PvP and PvE) feel the same way.

Whining that your subpar choice isn't BiS is... idiotic, yeah there really isn't another word to describe it. Just roll the ideal race for your class spec and play the endgame content - or don't and go back to quietly picking flowers and fishing while the REAL heroes of Tamriel save the world.

This fails to recognize the fundamental change in the game as I previously stated before your post. I do believe races should have their differences, but I also believe the fundamental rewrite of game rules was unfair to quite a few players who had unique and functional builds before that rewrite. Your post is very elitist without recognizing it lacks some factual depth. I can forgive this to some degree if you played the game after the great rewrite of game systems but even so I do not think you would appreciate it if at the drop of the hat Altmer's suddenly became a stamina race tomorrow. This is more or less what happened to the game. Many races were very sub-optimal as well and in that respect they've certainly made some races more useful. It is clear however that some races have a lot more options in utility and others have very narrowly defined focus that makes them less valuable. I'm not impressed with your argument because you are being dismissive of facts, not because you suggest that players should optimize. I believe people have a right to suggest to the Devs that they'd like to see a system for balance put in place so players can make reasonable builds for all races in the game. As others have stated there is great precedence for this in previous Elder Scroll games. That being said Breton was pretty much the best race every time in previous games although I was able to make good builds with other races they were always more niche. The nice thing about previous games is that the stronger you got the less important your race became.

ESO never had a massive overhaul of races to extent you are suggesting. There was only ever one overhaul - and it was only to augment what was already there and provide an additional, small non-combat based bonus for each race. Imperials were still Imperials, Argonians were still Argonians, and Redguards were still Redguards, etc. Altmers "becoming a stamina race at the drop of a hat" was never something that EVER happened to ANY race.

I'm dismissive of ridiculous requests that attempt to s*** all over the Elder Scrolls franchise. Racial choice and its impact on your gameplay is part of the game. If people like yourself have a problem with that, then you picked the wrong game.

Shanjijri · June 2017

SydneyGrey wrote: »

I wish I could play a Redguard as a magicka character. I mean, technically I *could*, but she'd be crippled in end-game content. Yeah, that kind of sucks.

[/quote]

It depends. 'Depends' because I cannot speak about veteran trials (except Dragonstar), but my Khajiit, who is a healer, does end game content without problems. His damage and heal could be better, but it is absolutely doable for me. When it is not, it is when I need to practice a boss mechanics.

Now I wrote this, I think it is less punished for a healer or a tank to not pick the optimal race... And it could hurt a lot for a DPS... I never played DPS, I cannot say for sure.

zergbase_ESO · June 2017

Vercingetorix wrote: »

zergbase_ESO wrote: »

I wish. I rerolled My Khajiit mag sorc to an Altmer. Just to have the bloody passives. If I could say let me pick passives I want. Well I'd still have my Khajiit.

Khajiit have no business being as strong as Altmer in sorcery. The Altmer are descendants of the Ayleids and have the closest connection to Aetherius - they should be the strongest with magic. Bretons and Dunmer have similar backgrounds that lend themselves to magical proficiency, with some more focus on certain aspects like defensive magic or fire magic.

If you care more about the Khajiit, then be a stamina-based spec. A cat should have weaker lightning bolts than a descendant of the Ayleids.

How about no to the lore in this case. You can have gifted khajiit with spell work or one that has studied in mages guild. So your logic is out the window.

They need either rework passives or nerf them across board so they do not matter. The passives as they are just force choices for endgame peeps. I much rather be able pick race I want and still be able to min/max.

Zardayne · June 2017

Enslaved wrote: »

Well, you do choose race passives when creating characters.

Yep you sure do..Redguard or Khajit for stamina, Imperial (Maybe Nord)) for tanking, Altmer, Dunmer, or Breton for Magica..Sounds exciting...Pigeonholing is fun!

SydneyGrey · June 2017

Vercingetorix wrote: »

Then don't pick a Redguard. Problem Solved.

So I should have to play a race I'm not completely happy with just because YOU think I should be forced to?

Raeph · June 2017

Iluvrien wrote: »

ofSunhold wrote: »

It would be great if racial passives were toned down. They're way too important - and this is really my main issue - I don't want to be a goddamned Altmer and I don't think my character should be penalized so hard for that aesthetic choice.

Because, quite simply, it isn't an aesthetic choice.

Racial abilities/passives are a part of that race. Exactly what they are has changed from game to game (in previous incarnations) but the defining aspect of each race having a mechanical impact has not. Cutting racial passives lose from racial choice is something that should never happen while this game still has "Elder Scrolls" in the title.

There is zero reason why those passives have to be such that they impact end game though. Altmer could easily just have a bonus to exp gained in destruction staff line, or other things like that which has less impact in the end.

I don't remember anything in the lore or previous TES games that says they MUST have a percentage increase to magic damage.

DeHei · June 2017

I like the idea.. in german forum we discutated about it 2 months ago. There were many guys, which dont understood the idea behind, to see more races again..

But passives should be limited to one time you are able to choose for each charakter. Else some guys would pick 3x Max Magicka... For Example DKs dont would need any reg anymore, just press the ult button for ressources and much damage...

Vercingetorix · June 2017

SydneyGrey wrote: »

Vercingetorix wrote: »

Then don't pick a Redguard. Problem Solved.

So I should have to play a race I'm not completely happy with just because YOU think I should be forced to?

Redguards are not a magicka race. They NEVER have been in the entire franchise. The GAME and the DEVELOPERS have told you what each race does.

Your argument is like being mad that you can't cross the street during a green light because you don't like the color red.

You can still cross the street, but you have to deal with the consequences of your decision. Go ahead and be a mag Redguard. You will hit for less damage and have less resources than an Altmer - which is how it should be. You will struggle or fail to do endgame content: that is YOUR choice.

Races are what they are - and will remain as such. [snip]

[edited for baiting]

SydneyGrey · June 2017

Vercingetorix wrote: »

Redguards are not a magicka race. They NEVER have been in the entire franchise. The GAME and the DEVELOPERS have told you what each race does.

Your argument is like being mad that you can't cross the street during a green light because you don't like the color red.

You can still cross the street, but you have to deal with the consequences of your decision. Go ahead and be a mag Redguard. You will hit for less damage and have less resources than an Altmer - which is how it should be. You will struggle or fail to do endgame content: that is YOUR choice.

Races are what they are - and will remain as such.

I'm in favor of more game choices. [snip] I'm entitled to my opinion. If ZOS never changes anything about the game, I'm fine with that. I'm entitled to give my opinions, though.

[snip] Maybe you shouldn't be playing an MMO, since you have a hard time respecting other people's opinions.

[edited for baiting]

Kuramas9tails · June 2017

I am glad to see so many passionate views from both the MMO world and the Elder Scrolls world. Some will understand and some won't: I just want to create my main character to be closely to exactly what I want with my play style so I can enjoy the game a little bit more. Some of us really like a certain race and want to be that race but can't play the character with the given passives especially for end game content.

Bringer · June 2017

I would play a bosmer healer, and a cat wizard.

Tryxus · June 2017

Why not make it so that every race has their fixed passives like the situation right now, and then throw in a wild card, a single passive of the player's choosing. Like a certain power or buff the character finds on his travels and stays with him

Ofc, you should be able to change that passive at a Shrine for instance.

You could give a Breton MagBlade a sneak attack passive, or a Khajiit Stam Sorc a Stamina passive, and so on, ... to add a bit of flavor or synergy with your class

zergbase_ESO · June 2017

What is it for skill point passives 3 right?
Passive 1
Passive 2
Passive 3

So let us pick 3 skill point passives.
Like for my khajiit

Passive 1 max mag
Passive 2 max regen
Passive 3 elemental talent

All other passives grey out once three have been chosen.
[just example]

Once I put skill points into these three I can not pick different passives unless you pay in game gold for a full respect. Like I am surprised not setup this way from the start.

Probably better ideas posted but this is what comes to my mind as ideal.

Venom4You · June 2017

I am not a fan of the idea of picking racial passives. Someone will figure out a meta passive setup for magicka and stamina and there goes your choice anyway.
Actually I am not a fan of racial passives at all. I've never understood why they existed in the more casual elder scrolls titles like Oblibion and Skyrim at all. I guess they are in ESO because they used to be in previous titles. While they have nearly no impact in the non competitive environment of the other elder scrolls games, in ESO they are quite a pain when trying to min max your char to compete with other players in PVP and PVE... Imo best solution in an mmo that gives you choice of race: Give us a REAL CHOICE and get rid of the passives so we can play the race we love with the playstyle we love, without a disadvantage.
OR bring back soft caps. Back then racial passives didn't mean much because everybody reached the capped max stats anyways. And make no mistake... the stats passives are by far the most important ones anyway.

Animal_Mother · June 2017

TheNuminous1 wrote: »

I have been desiring a magicka bosmer warden healer since forever. Long before they even announced warden.

But I knew people would be racist against me in trials and even dungeons if I wasn't a min/max race.

Soni made a breton warden maxed it out did all the fun stuff new trial and a ton of dungeons.

But I hate it.. I hate it so much. Because its not the race I envisioned. What I was so excited for was a wood elf that could summon trees and flowers and heal. Like a spinner kinda.

So today I made her. My bosmer warden healer.

And I don't care if its not accepted by the masses if you wanna que for another healer be my guest and kick me. But ima play what's fun for me.

It takes more skill to play a non-min/max character and be successful. At least that what I keep reminding myself; main is a Bosmer Magplar.

Bringing back softcaps would be great equalizer, but I think that era is long gone.

NewBlacksmurf · June 2017

.....choosing race is choosing racial passives.

Shrug

zaria · June 2017

Vercingetorix wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Vercingetorix wrote: »

Those who are arguing for racial passives to be removed/changed like to use the "play as you want" tagline, but conveniently forget that the game certainly allows for anyone to play the way they want. The tagline is NOT "Play as you want and be as strong as an optimized person in endgame content".

Khajiit magSorcs and Bosmer magDKs are perfectly fine... outside of HM Vet Trials and vMA. If you want to participate in ALL content (including endgame), roll an optimized setup for the CLASS you want - or accept the fact that you will have to work harder to survive and will be less effective than your teammates, in addition to possibly being asked to leave.

Character race as a "cosmetic choice" is an irrelevant argument when you are covered head to toe in BiS gear and are a vampire-faced freak for the excellent passives. Cosmetics go out the window if you are in endgame content.

That is the sacrifice an endgame player like me makes. If at endgame, I happen to like my armor or vampire face, then it's just icing on the cake. Otherwise, my focus as an endgame player is the Leaderboard and gear drops - it's about stats and nothing else. The vast majority of endgame players (both PvP and PvE) feel the same way.

Whining that your subpar choice isn't BiS is... idiotic, yeah there really isn't another word to describe it. Just roll the ideal race for your class spec and play the endgame content - or don't and go back to quietly picking flowers and fishing while the REAL heroes of Tamriel save the world.

This fails to recognize the fundamental change in the game as I previously stated before your post. I do believe races should have their differences, but I also believe the fundamental rewrite of game rules was unfair to quite a few players who had unique and functional builds before that rewrite. Your post is very elitist without recognizing it lacks some factual depth. I can forgive this to some degree if you played the game after the great rewrite of game systems but even so I do not think you would appreciate it if at the drop of the hat Altmer's suddenly became a stamina race tomorrow. This is more or less what happened to the game. Many races were very sub-optimal as well and in that respect they've certainly made some races more useful. It is clear however that some races have a lot more options in utility and others have very narrowly defined focus that makes them less valuable. I'm not impressed with your argument because you are being dismissive of facts, not because you suggest that players should optimize. I believe people have a right to suggest to the Devs that they'd like to see a system for balance put in place so players can make reasonable builds for all races in the game. As others have stated there is great precedence for this in previous Elder Scroll games. That being said Breton was pretty much the best race every time in previous games although I was able to make good builds with other races they were always more niche. The nice thing about previous games is that the stronger you got the less important your race became.

ESO never had a massive overhaul of races to extent you are suggesting. There was only ever one overhaul - and it was only to augment what was already there and provide an additional, small non-combat based bonus for each race. Imperials were still Imperials, Argonians were still Argonians, and Redguards were still Redguards, etc. Altmers "becoming a stamina race at the drop of a hat" was never something that EVER happened to ANY race.

I'm dismissive of ridiculous requests that attempt to s*** all over the Elder Scrolls franchise. Racial choice and its impact on your gameplay is part of the game. If people like yourself have a problem with that, then you picked the wrong game.

Still wonder if some posting here have played other TES games?
Benefit of race was an starting bonus in skills and attributes, as lower level skills level up fast this was negated pretty well at low level. Exception was increased magic for Altmer and an smaller amount for Breton, however damage did not scale from max magic so it only gave better sustain.
As some who mostly played female Bosmer, Khajiit and some Altmers and a couple Dumers the low strength hurt a lot in the start as you can not carry much loot. Oblivion was an issue as you could not simply train you out of it.

zaria · June 2017

Vercingetorix wrote: »

SydneyGrey wrote: »

Vercingetorix wrote: »

Then don't pick a Redguard. Problem Solved.

So I should have to play a race I'm not completely happy with just because YOU think I should be forced to?

Redguards are not a magicka race. They NEVER have been in the entire franchise. The GAME and the DEVELOPERS have told you what each race does.

Your argument is like being mad that you can't cross the street during a green light because you don't like the color red.

You can still cross the street, but you have to deal with the consequences of your decision. Go ahead and be a mag Redguard. You will hit for less damage and have less resources than an Altmer - which is how it should be. You will struggle or fail to do endgame content: that is YOUR choice.

Races are what they are - and will remain as such. If you don't like it, LEAVE.

Poor little is scared that his Altmer sorc get nerfed.
Your lore augment fails, in all discussion of cannon, gameplay or movie shots win over background lore.

Arguments for the current strong racial passives.
1) Lore, yes however Morrowind racial passives had far less impact and consensus is that Morrowind is more lore friendly than ESO.
2) lots of players would get an nerf if removed. This is the main point I think.

Against
1) it no clear warning then you start an new character, just an subtle description.
2) much the same description in the single player games there the racial bonuses was only important at low levels
3) How was easy single player games with an difficulty slider (outside of daggerfall), while eso is competitive multiplayer
4) its an holdover from the soft caps days, it was not fixed on the change.
5) its an general bad idea to add unbalance in an MMO, why not introduce sexual differences? Men as stronger than females, all games before Skyrim had different stats for sexes. On next update all male charterers get an +10% buff to stamina for balance they get an 10% nerf to magic, females get the opposite so its perfectly balanced.

My position is that the entire mess only exist as ZoS is as talented as the light attack brigade you run into in pugs.
Say its worse than the dungeon finder issues, as that require some coding to fix.
The passives was ignored at launch because of soft caps, soft caps was removed because reasons.
Like all other features it bypassed PTS and went life.

zaria · June 2017

Animal_Mother wrote: »

TheNuminous1 wrote: »

I have been desiring a magicka bosmer warden healer since forever. Long before they even announced warden.

But I knew people would be racist against me in trials and even dungeons if I wasn't a min/max race.

Soni made a breton warden maxed it out did all the fun stuff new trial and a ton of dungeons.

But I hate it.. I hate it so much. Because its not the race I envisioned. What I was so excited for was a wood elf that could summon trees and flowers and heal. Like a spinner kinda.

So today I made her. My bosmer warden healer.

And I don't care if its not accepted by the masses if you wanna que for another healer be my guest and kick me. But ima play what's fun for me.

It takes more skill to play a non-min/max character and be successful. At least that what I keep reminding myself; main is a Bosmer Magplar.

Bringing back softcaps would be great equalizer, but I think that era is long gone.

Simply removing scaling damage from max resource would help.
Another idiotic idea who was ignored because of soft caps.
A bullet don't do more damage from being shot from an 50 round or 20 round magazine, the 50 round magazine still let you shoot more before reload who is an good thing, but it makes the gun heavier.

StormWylf · June 2017

HatchetHaro wrote: »

... People have been forced to race-change just to remain viable. This isn't the TES way.

There are some parts of racial passives that I'm fine with: Argonian swim speed, Khajiit sneak, experience gains with certain skill lines; these are all miscellaneous passives that define the races and do not affect the end-game. Regen, healing, and resistances are also fine. However, the most unbalanced ones are the ones that grant extra damage, such as max stamina and magicka as well as straight up damage buffs to certain damage types. Those need to go, or need to be offered to every race.

I highly recommend the full comment, but wanted to focus on the quote above. This is a reasonable, moderate approach, that preserves the racial aspects yet balances out the races much more efficiently, and I believe would lead to better diversity of the races overall. +1

Sheva I 7 I · June 2017

SydneyGrey wrote: »

If there were more races that were strong in magic, this wouldn't even be an issue. Basically, if you want to play magicka, you have to be either an elf, a Breton or an Argonian, so there are three races to choose from that are strong in magic, and four including Argonians.
Stamina races have six to choose from; seven if you count Argonians, as Argonians can technically be either stam or magic.

Even if you counted Argonians as being in the "magic" category, it's still:
4 magicka races
6 stamina races

That's a little lop-sided.
In fact, it's WAY lop-sided. It gives magicka character fewer choices, which you have to admit kind of sucks.

Nord is not really a stamina race, more of a tank race

emilyhyoyeon · June 2017

my favorite race is khajiit but (in multiplayer games) I play everything other than assassins so I know the OP's feeling, but I don't think picking passives makes sense in terms of lore or whatever. I'm not really a minmaxer so idk

Iluvrien · June 2017

Raeph wrote: »

Iluvrien wrote: »

ofSunhold wrote: »

It would be great if racial passives were toned down. They're way too important - and this is really my main issue - I don't want to be a goddamned Altmer and I don't think my character should be penalized so hard for that aesthetic choice.

Because, quite simply, it isn't an aesthetic choice.

Racial abilities/passives are a part of that race. Exactly what they are has changed from game to game (in previous incarnations) but the defining aspect of each race having a mechanical impact has not. Cutting racial passives lose from racial choice is something that should never happen while this game still has "Elder Scrolls" in the title.

There is zero reason why those passives have to be such that they impact end game though. Altmer could easily just have a bonus to exp gained in destruction staff line, or other things like that which has less impact in the end.

I don't remember anything in the lore or previous TES games that says they MUST have a percentage increase to magic damage.

The title of this thread is "don't you wish you could pick your (race) passives?". I argued against that point specifically. I even pointed out that how racial passives were implemented in previous incarnations of TES games changed from game to game. As such, I am not sure you are actually arguing with the content of my post.

Do I think you should be able to choose passives? No.

Do I think that the current passives should be set in stone and remain as impactful in endgame as they are? Again, no.

In fact I even stated that I agreed with a reworking of the passives to be more along lore/cultural lines over a year ago.

So, did you actually mean to quote my post?

HatchetHaro · June 2017

Vercingetorix wrote: »

Those who are arguing for racial passives to be removed/changed like to use the "play as you want" tagline, but conveniently forget that the game certainly allows for anyone to play the way they want. The tagline is NOT "Play as you want and be as strong as an optimized person in endgame content".

Khajiit magSorcs and Bosmer magDKs are perfectly fine... outside of HM Vet Trials and vMA. If you want to participate in ALL content (including endgame), roll an optimized setup for the CLASS you want - or accept the fact that you will have to work harder to survive and will be less effective than your teammates, in addition to possibly being asked to leave.

Character race as a "cosmetic choice" is an irrelevant argument when you are covered head to toe in BiS gear and are a vampire-faced freak for the excellent passives. Cosmetics go out the window if you are in endgame content.

That is the sacrifice an endgame player like me makes. If at endgame, I happen to like my armor or vampire face, then it's just icing on the cake. Otherwise, my focus as an endgame player is the Leaderboard and gear drops - it's about stats and nothing else. The vast majority of endgame players (both PvP and PvE) feel the same way.

Whining that your subpar choice isn't BiS is... idiotic, yeah there really isn't another word to describe it. Just roll the ideal race for your class spec and play the endgame content - or don't and go back to quietly picking flowers and fishing while the REAL heroes of Tamriel save the world.

Your insults against our stance is really disrespectful.

Here's the thing: people don't play the game just for maximum efficiency in end-game content. This is, after all, an Elder Scrolls game, and RP is a staple part of this franchise. People pick the race they like not just for their passives, but also for their looks and their lore. As a result, people have races they like, and on the other side of the spectrum, races they dislike as well.

The problem with the current system in ESO is that players are given little choice when it comes to being the best at their class: either "play the race you like", or "get a damage boost".

Vercingetorix wrote: »

Character race as a "cosmetic choice" is an irrelevant argument when you are covered head to toe in BiS gear and are a vampire-faced freak for the excellent passives. Cosmetics go out the window if you are in endgame content.

There's a reason costumes and skins exist. The whole "vampire looks" thing has been discussed many times; people have asked for a "hide vampire" skin for a long time, so I'll leave it at that. You can cover up your BiS gear with costumes or disguises, and a transmog system is currently being worked on for ESO. Your argument about cosmetics just completely goes out the window. I haven't even touched on the skins that can only be acquired through completing end-game objectives.

Fact of the matter is that people care about their cosmetics, even in trials. I, for one, am performing quite well in the end-game as a stam DK Argonian dps, and I care a lot about being a lizard. Sure, being a Redguard would net me even more dps, but screw that, I love Argonians, and I will never play anything but Argonians. One of my friends play a Khajiit mag Sorc, and he's really good in veteran trials.

The thing is that people aren't playing the races they like, such is how it is in the other Elder Scrolls games. People are playing what are the most effective in the end-game, with guides all over the Internet telling the players which races are the best for whichever roles and classes. It's creating an imbalance such that the leaderboards are filled with Dunmer and Altmer mag DDs and Redguard and Khajiit stam DDs. It's further spreading the stereotype that the "non-optimal" races are inferior for their roles. It's creating a community with no diversity.

This is not Elder Scrolls. I mean, sure, we all know ESO is vastly different compared with other ES games, but the racial passives have at least told us that ESO has strayed a bit too far.