Linaleah wrote: »

and? a lot of games have fewer tools. some of the single player rpg's don't even let you customize appearance or gender of your character (like Witcher) and yet are lauded as best rpg of the generation.

Linaleah wrote: »

Bombashaman wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

and? a lot of games have fewer tools. some of the single player rpg's don't even let you customize appearance or gender of your character (like Witcher) and yet are lauded as best rpg of the generation.

And. Nothing. Just saying ESO and ZOS could be more RP friendly MMORPG. They choose not to.

honestly, I think what rp friendly means is subjective. it depends entirely on the way you prefer to roleplay

soll wrote: »

how about skyrim/morrowind boyz stop considering ESO as original TES solo games and cry, that ESO doesn't look like it, so they don't like it?

oh, look at this WoW, it's not like warcraft 3, I don't like it, can I have offline mode pls?

dday3six wrote: »

In the strictest sense of server type, yes. That means games like Destiny and Warframe are also MMOs under this classification. However, I've long maintained that ESO lacks both the polish and unified direction found in some other MMOs.

Bombashaman wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Bombashaman wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Bombashaman wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

and? a lot of games have fewer tools. some of the single player rpg's don't even let you customize appearance or gender of your character (like Witcher) and yet are lauded as best rpg of the generation.

And. Nothing. Just saying ESO and ZOS could be more RP friendly MMORPG. They choose not to.

honestly, I think what rp friendly means is subjective. it depends entirely on the way you prefer to roleplay

I...hmm. I'm just saying LOTRO gives more tools to express oneself. They have everything ESO has, and then some more. If you, for example, like to put up a band and roleplay you are musicians, in LOTRO you actually can dress yourselves more and then play the music by the note with different instruments. There is nothing in LOTRO to make RP worse. At least I haven't found one.

last I checked they don't give me any options as to how to complete quests - there is only one way to do it. and for me that is a hugely important part of roleplaying.

Oh yeah. There is that. Instead of choosing one option, in ESO there are two. But APART FROM THAT...

I have never considered it a roleplay to choose from one of the two recorded (stored? Filed? Canned?) options. Then again, I really don't believe there can be much roleplaying between man and machine. Old Skool RuneQuest -roleplayer 4 life.

But yes you are right about that.

Linaleah wrote: »

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Bombashaman wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Bombashaman wrote: »

I just leave this here:

ESO isn't really an MMO in the traditional sense anyway:

"To answer your question about comparing ESO to other MMOs: ESO is not really a traditional MMO, so we don’t use that term much around the office – and it is this distinction that separates it from other games. If you want to play it solo, like you did with other Elder Scrolls games, you can do that. If you want to play it super-grindy with dungeons, Trials, and group bosses as the core of you experience, you can join up with others and do that too."

And made it even clearer in a recent interview last week:

“We don’t even use the term MMO with The Elder Scrolls Online anymore, because really it’s not,” game director Matt Firor says. “MMO was a term coined in 1997 with Ultima Online, EverQuest, and Dark Age of Camelot – we are not that game.”

He meant that ESO isn't a traditional MMO, but by the definition of an MMO, it is still an MMO, just not the kind of MMO that we are used to.

but its EXACTLY the kind of MMO's i'm used to. but.. i didn't get into MMO's until WoW came out and made MMO's accessible and playable solo. MMO hasn't meant "must group for everything, and cannot play solo at all" for a while now.

On one interview ZOS said ESO is "online RPG". So they dropped the Massive Multiplayer from the MMORPG. Which is kinda weird as ESO do feel massive, and there do are many players zooming around, but it sure as h*ll doesn't feel like an RPG. More like an adventure park.

it does feel like an rpg, a certain type of rpg. to me. but honestly it almost feels like ZOS is trying to appear to be different for the sake of seeming to be different even though they are not. to avoid the whole "another wannabe wow killer" stigma? or something. I don't even know, its the same mess with chapters. exercise in semantics to seem different

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

Sibenice wrote: »

zyk wrote: »

The only thing massively multiplayer about ESO is Cyrodiil. PVE content is mostly single player/coop. I think Online RPG is a fitting description.

You can do a large portion of WoW single player as well. Does that make it not an MMORPG? In fact, most of the MMOs I just dabbled in I did everything solo. Just because you have an option to not do things with other people does not make the game not an MMO.

though im not a fan of WOW, it has incredible amounts of group content across all its level tiers. this game has very very little group content. and a lot of that group content can be solo'd or duo'd

this game has lthe same amount of group content at all tiers as WoW does. possibly more, since with WoW you can outlevel EVERYTHING and including old raids (trial equivalents)that are MEANT to be soloed when at cap. here, you have to be pretty darn skilled and decently geared to solo instanced dungeons. in WoW.. all you need to do is go up a few levels. you can do far less grouping in WoW if you so wish, then in ESO.

world bosses in ESO unless you are above average? need a group. instanced dungeons? need a group and a bunch of them ARE meant to be done while still leveling. public dungeons - hit or miss, but its the equivalent of an overgeared WoW player soloing current dungeons. and btw, you can get overgeared in WoW completely solo as well, especially in this latest expansion. source? active WoW account. the only things I've been grouping for lately is once a week world bosses and holiday event - becasue for holiday event, you cannot reach it without being in group finder, at least as far as i know.

just out of cursiousity what end game activites are you doing in ESO currently and what incentive do you find to do it. Personaly im not a fan of Tam one . it was a step to far in one direction , the fact that most of the four mans can be solo'd if your a good player with good gear is an indication its CP system is completely broken. the basic problem with am one is they nerfed the game to a diluted state that requires no skill , community developed friendships, though i thought ESO was going ina good direction fo r its first year albiet very slowly. from my perspective ESO has now focused on making money of the community that does not even play the whole game. throw out some single player zone 3 times a year with some quests and bad story, pump out some crow crate items and milk the churning player base. From my perspective thats something you start doing post 5 years of launch after you have expanded and enriched game systems, AA have a full class an roll roster, and several options to end game activities. they could have done a lot more EQ2 type development .

I do mostly occasional trials and dungeons. and thank the bloody god they didn't do more of full on evercrack type development, the days of forced grouping in MMO's are long LONG gone. and they are NOT coming back. vast VAST majority of moddern mmo's (and I only say majority, rather then all becasue i haven't played all existing MMO's) offer a mix of solo and group content, with ability to solo your way to level cap and experience large chunks of the game solo, without having to group even once. its done so that you can choose to be social, while still staying casual

incidentally, no, i cannot solo dungeons in ESO, especialy not after one Tamriel. one tamriel has done more to force grouping than anything else in this game. i HAVE to be in a group to do them, yes even on story mode. most people can't, btw. there are people who, in WoW at least - solo current raid bosses. they are NOT the norm. they do it for the challenge and to see if they can, the rest of us - NEED to group for them. just becasue a few people can solo group content, doesn't make it any less of a content meant for and usually done in a group.

Bombashaman wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Bombashaman wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

it does feel like an rpg, a certain type of rpg. to me. but honestly it almost feels like ZOS is trying to appear to be different for the sake of seeming to be different even though they are not. to avoid the whole "another wannabe wow killer" stigma? or something. I don't even know, its the same mess with chapters. exercise in semantics to seem different.

ZOS and ESO doesn't really help RPing much. I'm comparing it to LOTRO as it is the other MMORPG I'm playing. LOTRO has better cosmetic system, more emotes and instruments you can play. Like really play, do music, pressing different notes. I don't RP, but many times I have stopped my grinding of different stuff just to pause and listen when group of roleplayers play like a band in towns.

Is a wonder, as this is supposed to be mmoRPG, that most of the people concentrate only that MMO part. In one poll, minority roleplays.

you know, I never understood that? I always thought that rp is about creativity of the mind. and rp doesn't always need to be done with other people. I like that in ESO I'm actualy helped by the game when it comes to figuring out what sort of person my character is - by being given choices in how I progress the quests. I have options for outfits to wear into battle vs outfits to wear when in their homes. they have homes! and mechanically, the skills we give to our characters, whether we focus them on magic or combat, passive bonuses - all of that is a part of an rpg. i mean... you don't get to rp against other people in solo games, and yet.. people don't argue whether they are rpg's. there are solo rpg's that have far fewer visual as well as mechanical customization options then ESO and yet there is no doubt that they are rpg's. there are rpg's that have no preset emotes. no toys.

and seriously housing was the biggest thing ZOS could have done to help rp along. because now there's a plethora of options on creating actual environments to play out the stories in, while keeping them private enough to not be disrupted by those not into role playing.

LOTRO just has more tools for RP, they have these same things as are in ESO, and then some more. More ways to express oneself.

and? a lot of games have fewer tools. some of the single player rpg's don't even let you customize appearance or gender of your character (like Witcher) and yet are lauded as best rpg of the generation.

Linaleah wrote: »

Bombashaman wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Bombashaman wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Bombashaman wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

and? a lot of games have fewer tools. some of the single player rpg's don't even let you customize appearance or gender of your character (like Witcher) and yet are lauded as best rpg of the generation.

And. Nothing. Just saying ESO and ZOS could be more RP friendly MMORPG. They choose not to.

honestly, I think what rp friendly means is subjective. it depends entirely on the way you prefer to roleplay

I...hmm. I'm just saying LOTRO gives more tools to express oneself. They have everything ESO has, and then some more. If you, for example, like to put up a band and roleplay you are musicians, in LOTRO you actually can dress yourselves more and then play the music by the note with different instruments. There is nothing in LOTRO to make RP worse. At least I haven't found one.

last I checked they don't give me any options as to how to complete quests - there is only one way to do it. and for me that is a hugely important part of roleplaying.

Oh yeah. There is that. Instead of choosing one option, in ESO there are two. But APART FROM THAT...

I have never considered it a roleplay to choose from one of the two recorded (stored? Filed? Canned?) options. Then again, I really don't believe there can be much roleplaying between man and machine. Old Skool RuneQuest -roleplayer 4 life.

But yes you are right about that.

single player role playing games beg to differ. but hey, to each their own. roleplaying gaming started with a bunch of people sitting around the table with pieces of paper and a bunch of dice as basically the only tools to have their imagination fly. so there is also that.

but yes, it is indeed roleplay to chose between predetermined options. its kinda how single player rpg's even work. those options are one of the tools to shape who your character is as a person.. if you let them (and there are times when its more then just 2 options as well)

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Bombashaman wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Bombashaman wrote: »

I just leave this here:

ESO isn't really an MMO in the traditional sense anyway:

"To answer your question about comparing ESO to other MMOs: ESO is not really a traditional MMO, so we don’t use that term much around the office – and it is this distinction that separates it from other games. If you want to play it solo, like you did with other Elder Scrolls games, you can do that. If you want to play it super-grindy with dungeons, Trials, and group bosses as the core of you experience, you can join up with others and do that too."

And made it even clearer in a recent interview last week:

“We don’t even use the term MMO with The Elder Scrolls Online anymore, because really it’s not,” game director Matt Firor says. “MMO was a term coined in 1997 with Ultima Online, EverQuest, and Dark Age of Camelot – we are not that game.”

He meant that ESO isn't a traditional MMO, but by the definition of an MMO, it is still an MMO, just not the kind of MMO that we are used to.

but its EXACTLY the kind of MMO's i'm used to. but.. i didn't get into MMO's until WoW came out and made MMO's accessible and playable solo. MMO hasn't meant "must group for everything, and cannot play solo at all" for a while now.

On one interview ZOS said ESO is "online RPG". So they dropped the Massive Multiplayer from the MMORPG. Which is kinda weird as ESO do feel massive, and there do are many players zooming around, but it sure as h*ll doesn't feel like an RPG. More like an adventure park.

it does feel like an rpg, a certain type of rpg. to me. but honestly it almost feels like ZOS is trying to appear to be different for the sake of seeming to be different even though they are not. to avoid the whole "another wannabe wow killer" stigma? or something. I don't even know, its the same mess with chapters. exercise in semantics to seem different

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

Sibenice wrote: »

zyk wrote: »

The only thing massively multiplayer about ESO is Cyrodiil. PVE content is mostly single player/coop. I think Online RPG is a fitting description.

You can do a large portion of WoW single player as well. Does that make it not an MMORPG? In fact, most of the MMOs I just dabbled in I did everything solo. Just because you have an option to not do things with other people does not make the game not an MMO.

though im not a fan of WOW, it has incredible amounts of group content across all its level tiers. this game has very very little group content. and a lot of that group content can be solo'd or duo'd

this game has lthe same amount of group content at all tiers as WoW does. possibly more, since with WoW you can outlevel EVERYTHING and including old raids (trial equivalents)that are MEANT to be soloed when at cap. here, you have to be pretty darn skilled and decently geared to solo instanced dungeons. in WoW.. all you need to do is go up a few levels. you can do far less grouping in WoW if you so wish, then in ESO.

world bosses in ESO unless you are above average? need a group. instanced dungeons? need a group and a bunch of them ARE meant to be done while still leveling. public dungeons - hit or miss, but its the equivalent of an overgeared WoW player soloing current dungeons. and btw, you can get overgeared in WoW completely solo as well, especially in this latest expansion. source? active WoW account. the only things I've been grouping for lately is once a week world bosses and holiday event - becasue for holiday event, you cannot reach it without being in group finder, at least as far as i know.

just out of cursiousity what end game activites are you doing in ESO currently and what incentive do you find to do it. Personaly im not a fan of Tam one . it was a step to far in one direction , the fact that most of the four mans can be solo'd if your a good player with good gear is an indication its CP system is completely broken. the basic problem with am one is they nerfed the game to a diluted state that requires no skill , community developed friendships, though i thought ESO was going ina good direction fo r its first year albiet very slowly. from my perspective ESO has now focused on making money of the community that does not even play the whole game. throw out some single player zone 3 times a year with some quests and bad story, pump out some crow crate items and milk the churning player base. From my perspective thats something you start doing post 5 years of launch after you have expanded and enriched game systems, AA have a full class an roll roster, and several options to end game activities. they could have done a lot more EQ2 type development .

I do mostly occasional trials and dungeons. and thank the bloody god they didn't do more of full on evercrack type development, the days of forced grouping in MMO's are long LONG gone. and they are NOT coming back. vast VAST majority of moddern mmo's (and I only say majority, rather then all becasue i haven't played all existing MMO's) offer a mix of solo and group content, with ability to solo your way to level cap and experience large chunks of the game solo, without having to group even once. its done so that you can choose to be social, while still staying casual

incidentally, no, i cannot solo dungeons in ESO, especialy not after one Tamriel. one tamriel has done more to force grouping than anything else in this game. i HAVE to be in a group to do them, yes even on story mode. most people can't, btw. there are people who, in WoW at least - solo current raid bosses. they are NOT the norm. they do it for the challenge and to see if they can, the rest of us - NEED to group for them. just becasue a few people can solo group content, doesn't make it any less of a content meant for and usually done in a group.

Bombashaman wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Bombashaman wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

it does feel like an rpg, a certain type of rpg. to me. but honestly it almost feels like ZOS is trying to appear to be different for the sake of seeming to be different even though they are not. to avoid the whole "another wannabe wow killer" stigma? or something. I don't even know, its the same mess with chapters. exercise in semantics to seem different.

ZOS and ESO doesn't really help RPing much. I'm comparing it to LOTRO as it is the other MMORPG I'm playing. LOTRO has better cosmetic system, more emotes and instruments you can play. Like really play, do music, pressing different notes. I don't RP, but many times I have stopped my grinding of different stuff just to pause and listen when group of roleplayers play like a band in towns.

Is a wonder, as this is supposed to be mmoRPG, that most of the people concentrate only that MMO part. In one poll, minority roleplays.

you know, I never understood that? I always thought that rp is about creativity of the mind. and rp doesn't always need to be done with other people. I like that in ESO I'm actualy helped by the game when it comes to figuring out what sort of person my character is - by being given choices in how I progress the quests. I have options for outfits to wear into battle vs outfits to wear when in their homes. they have homes! and mechanically, the skills we give to our characters, whether we focus them on magic or combat, passive bonuses - all of that is a part of an rpg. i mean... you don't get to rp against other people in solo games, and yet.. people don't argue whether they are rpg's. there are solo rpg's that have far fewer visual as well as mechanical customization options then ESO and yet there is no doubt that they are rpg's. there are rpg's that have no preset emotes. no toys.

and seriously housing was the biggest thing ZOS could have done to help rp along. because now there's a plethora of options on creating actual environments to play out the stories in, while keeping them private enough to not be disrupted by those not into role playing.

LOTRO just has more tools for RP, they have these same things as are in ESO, and then some more. More ways to express oneself.

and? a lot of games have fewer tools. some of the single player rpg's don't even let you customize appearance or gender of your character (like Witcher) and yet are lauded as best rpg of the generation.

Did you play eq 2? It was far better designed then this in its group dynamics. And it did some things wrong as well. Forced grouping ? I dont know where you got that from the games lvling content was completely solo. It required grouping much like this game. Usually this type of comment leads me to believe the person did not play eq2 . What it did right was not make the game dps dependent it was dependent on playing your chosen class well

Linaleah wrote: »

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Bombashaman wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Bombashaman wrote: »

I just leave this here:

ESO isn't really an MMO in the traditional sense anyway:

"To answer your question about comparing ESO to other MMOs: ESO is not really a traditional MMO, so we don’t use that term much around the office – and it is this distinction that separates it from other games. If you want to play it solo, like you did with other Elder Scrolls games, you can do that. If you want to play it super-grindy with dungeons, Trials, and group bosses as the core of you experience, you can join up with others and do that too."

And made it even clearer in a recent interview last week:

“We don’t even use the term MMO with The Elder Scrolls Online anymore, because really it’s not,” game director Matt Firor says. “MMO was a term coined in 1997 with Ultima Online, EverQuest, and Dark Age of Camelot – we are not that game.”

He meant that ESO isn't a traditional MMO, but by the definition of an MMO, it is still an MMO, just not the kind of MMO that we are used to.

but its EXACTLY the kind of MMO's i'm used to. but.. i didn't get into MMO's until WoW came out and made MMO's accessible and playable solo. MMO hasn't meant "must group for everything, and cannot play solo at all" for a while now.

On one interview ZOS said ESO is "online RPG". So they dropped the Massive Multiplayer from the MMORPG. Which is kinda weird as ESO do feel massive, and there do are many players zooming around, but it sure as h*ll doesn't feel like an RPG. More like an adventure park.

it does feel like an rpg, a certain type of rpg. to me. but honestly it almost feels like ZOS is trying to appear to be different for the sake of seeming to be different even though they are not. to avoid the whole "another wannabe wow killer" stigma? or something. I don't even know, its the same mess with chapters. exercise in semantics to seem different

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

Sibenice wrote: »

zyk wrote: »

The only thing massively multiplayer about ESO is Cyrodiil. PVE content is mostly single player/coop. I think Online RPG is a fitting description.

You can do a large portion of WoW single player as well. Does that make it not an MMORPG? In fact, most of the MMOs I just dabbled in I did everything solo. Just because you have an option to not do things with other people does not make the game not an MMO.

though im not a fan of WOW, it has incredible amounts of group content across all its level tiers. this game has very very little group content. and a lot of that group content can be solo'd or duo'd

this game has lthe same amount of group content at all tiers as WoW does. possibly more, since with WoW you can outlevel EVERYTHING and including old raids (trial equivalents)that are MEANT to be soloed when at cap. here, you have to be pretty darn skilled and decently geared to solo instanced dungeons. in WoW.. all you need to do is go up a few levels. you can do far less grouping in WoW if you so wish, then in ESO.

world bosses in ESO unless you are above average? need a group. instanced dungeons? need a group and a bunch of them ARE meant to be done while still leveling. public dungeons - hit or miss, but its the equivalent of an overgeared WoW player soloing current dungeons. and btw, you can get overgeared in WoW completely solo as well, especially in this latest expansion. source? active WoW account. the only things I've been grouping for lately is once a week world bosses and holiday event - becasue for holiday event, you cannot reach it without being in group finder, at least as far as i know.

just out of cursiousity what end game activites are you doing in ESO currently and what incentive do you find to do it. Personaly im not a fan of Tam one . it was a step to far in one direction , the fact that most of the four mans can be solo'd if your a good player with good gear is an indication its CP system is completely broken. the basic problem with am one is they nerfed the game to a diluted state that requires no skill , community developed friendships, though i thought ESO was going ina good direction fo r its first year albiet very slowly. from my perspective ESO has now focused on making money of the community that does not even play the whole game. throw out some single player zone 3 times a year with some quests and bad story, pump out some crow crate items and milk the churning player base. From my perspective thats something you start doing post 5 years of launch after you have expanded and enriched game systems, AA have a full class an roll roster, and several options to end game activities. they could have done a lot more EQ2 type development .

I do mostly occasional trials and dungeons. and thank the bloody god they didn't do more of full on evercrack type development, the days of forced grouping in MMO's are long LONG gone. and they are NOT coming back. vast VAST majority of moddern mmo's (and I only say majority, rather then all becasue i haven't played all existing MMO's) offer a mix of solo and group content, with ability to solo your way to level cap and experience large chunks of the game solo, without having to group even once. its done so that you can choose to be social, while still staying casual

incidentally, no, i cannot solo dungeons in ESO, especialy not after one Tamriel. one tamriel has done more to force grouping than anything else in this game. i HAVE to be in a group to do them, yes even on story mode. most people can't, btw. there are people who, in WoW at least - solo current raid bosses. they are NOT the norm. they do it for the challenge and to see if they can, the rest of us - NEED to group for them. just becasue a few people can solo group content, doesn't make it any less of a content meant for and usually done in a group.

Bombashaman wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Bombashaman wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

it does feel like an rpg, a certain type of rpg. to me. but honestly it almost feels like ZOS is trying to appear to be different for the sake of seeming to be different even though they are not. to avoid the whole "another wannabe wow killer" stigma? or something. I don't even know, its the same mess with chapters. exercise in semantics to seem different.

ZOS and ESO doesn't really help RPing much. I'm comparing it to LOTRO as it is the other MMORPG I'm playing. LOTRO has better cosmetic system, more emotes and instruments you can play. Like really play, do music, pressing different notes. I don't RP, but many times I have stopped my grinding of different stuff just to pause and listen when group of roleplayers play like a band in towns.

Is a wonder, as this is supposed to be mmoRPG, that most of the people concentrate only that MMO part. In one poll, minority roleplays.

you know, I never understood that? I always thought that rp is about creativity of the mind. and rp doesn't always need to be done with other people. I like that in ESO I'm actualy helped by the game when it comes to figuring out what sort of person my character is - by being given choices in how I progress the quests. I have options for outfits to wear into battle vs outfits to wear when in their homes. they have homes! and mechanically, the skills we give to our characters, whether we focus them on magic or combat, passive bonuses - all of that is a part of an rpg. i mean... you don't get to rp against other people in solo games, and yet.. people don't argue whether they are rpg's. there are solo rpg's that have far fewer visual as well as mechanical customization options then ESO and yet there is no doubt that they are rpg's. there are rpg's that have no preset emotes. no toys.

and seriously housing was the biggest thing ZOS could have done to help rp along. because now there's a plethora of options on creating actual environments to play out the stories in, while keeping them private enough to not be disrupted by those not into role playing.

LOTRO just has more tools for RP, they have these same things as are in ESO, and then some more. More ways to express oneself.

and? a lot of games have fewer tools. some of the single player rpg's don't even let you customize appearance or gender of your character (like Witcher) and yet are lauded as best rpg of the generation.

Did you play eq 2? It was far better designed then this in its group dynamics. And it did some things wrong as well. Forced grouping ? I dont know where you got that from the games lvling content was completely solo. It required grouping much like this game. Usually this type of comment leads me to believe the person did not play eq2 . What it did right was not make the game dps dependent it was dependent on playing your chosen class well

might have been thinking of original everquest. that said.. I don't understand highlighted comment and what you mean by that? having also looked up the specifics of the game, I'm trying to understand in what way was it done better when it comes to grouping, then ESO. objectively speaking

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Bombashaman wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Bombashaman wrote: »

I just leave this here:

ESO isn't really an MMO in the traditional sense anyway:

"To answer your question about comparing ESO to other MMOs: ESO is not really a traditional MMO, so we don’t use that term much around the office – and it is this distinction that separates it from other games. If you want to play it solo, like you did with other Elder Scrolls games, you can do that. If you want to play it super-grindy with dungeons, Trials, and group bosses as the core of you experience, you can join up with others and do that too."

And made it even clearer in a recent interview last week:

“We don’t even use the term MMO with The Elder Scrolls Online anymore, because really it’s not,” game director Matt Firor says. “MMO was a term coined in 1997 with Ultima Online, EverQuest, and Dark Age of Camelot – we are not that game.”

He meant that ESO isn't a traditional MMO, but by the definition of an MMO, it is still an MMO, just not the kind of MMO that we are used to.

but its EXACTLY the kind of MMO's i'm used to. but.. i didn't get into MMO's until WoW came out and made MMO's accessible and playable solo. MMO hasn't meant "must group for everything, and cannot play solo at all" for a while now.

On one interview ZOS said ESO is "online RPG". So they dropped the Massive Multiplayer from the MMORPG. Which is kinda weird as ESO do feel massive, and there do are many players zooming around, but it sure as h*ll doesn't feel like an RPG. More like an adventure park.

it does feel like an rpg, a certain type of rpg. to me. but honestly it almost feels like ZOS is trying to appear to be different for the sake of seeming to be different even though they are not. to avoid the whole "another wannabe wow killer" stigma? or something. I don't even know, its the same mess with chapters. exercise in semantics to seem different

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

Sibenice wrote: »

zyk wrote: »

The only thing massively multiplayer about ESO is Cyrodiil. PVE content is mostly single player/coop. I think Online RPG is a fitting description.

You can do a large portion of WoW single player as well. Does that make it not an MMORPG? In fact, most of the MMOs I just dabbled in I did everything solo. Just because you have an option to not do things with other people does not make the game not an MMO.

though im not a fan of WOW, it has incredible amounts of group content across all its level tiers. this game has very very little group content. and a lot of that group content can be solo'd or duo'd

this game has lthe same amount of group content at all tiers as WoW does. possibly more, since with WoW you can outlevel EVERYTHING and including old raids (trial equivalents)that are MEANT to be soloed when at cap. here, you have to be pretty darn skilled and decently geared to solo instanced dungeons. in WoW.. all you need to do is go up a few levels. you can do far less grouping in WoW if you so wish, then in ESO.

world bosses in ESO unless you are above average? need a group. instanced dungeons? need a group and a bunch of them ARE meant to be done while still leveling. public dungeons - hit or miss, but its the equivalent of an overgeared WoW player soloing current dungeons. and btw, you can get overgeared in WoW completely solo as well, especially in this latest expansion. source? active WoW account. the only things I've been grouping for lately is once a week world bosses and holiday event - becasue for holiday event, you cannot reach it without being in group finder, at least as far as i know.

just out of cursiousity what end game activites are you doing in ESO currently and what incentive do you find to do it. Personaly im not a fan of Tam one . it was a step to far in one direction , the fact that most of the four mans can be solo'd if your a good player with good gear is an indication its CP system is completely broken. the basic problem with am one is they nerfed the game to a diluted state that requires no skill , community developed friendships, though i thought ESO was going ina good direction fo r its first year albiet very slowly. from my perspective ESO has now focused on making money of the community that does not even play the whole game. throw out some single player zone 3 times a year with some quests and bad story, pump out some crow crate items and milk the churning player base. From my perspective thats something you start doing post 5 years of launch after you have expanded and enriched game systems, AA have a full class an roll roster, and several options to end game activities. they could have done a lot more EQ2 type development .

I do mostly occasional trials and dungeons. and thank the bloody god they didn't do more of full on evercrack type development, the days of forced grouping in MMO's are long LONG gone. and they are NOT coming back. vast VAST majority of moddern mmo's (and I only say majority, rather then all becasue i haven't played all existing MMO's) offer a mix of solo and group content, with ability to solo your way to level cap and experience large chunks of the game solo, without having to group even once. its done so that you can choose to be social, while still staying casual

incidentally, no, i cannot solo dungeons in ESO, especialy not after one Tamriel. one tamriel has done more to force grouping than anything else in this game. i HAVE to be in a group to do them, yes even on story mode. most people can't, btw. there are people who, in WoW at least - solo current raid bosses. they are NOT the norm. they do it for the challenge and to see if they can, the rest of us - NEED to group for them. just becasue a few people can solo group content, doesn't make it any less of a content meant for and usually done in a group.

Bombashaman wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Bombashaman wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

it does feel like an rpg, a certain type of rpg. to me. but honestly it almost feels like ZOS is trying to appear to be different for the sake of seeming to be different even though they are not. to avoid the whole "another wannabe wow killer" stigma? or something. I don't even know, its the same mess with chapters. exercise in semantics to seem different.

ZOS and ESO doesn't really help RPing much. I'm comparing it to LOTRO as it is the other MMORPG I'm playing. LOTRO has better cosmetic system, more emotes and instruments you can play. Like really play, do music, pressing different notes. I don't RP, but many times I have stopped my grinding of different stuff just to pause and listen when group of roleplayers play like a band in towns.

Is a wonder, as this is supposed to be mmoRPG, that most of the people concentrate only that MMO part. In one poll, minority roleplays.

you know, I never understood that? I always thought that rp is about creativity of the mind. and rp doesn't always need to be done with other people. I like that in ESO I'm actualy helped by the game when it comes to figuring out what sort of person my character is - by being given choices in how I progress the quests. I have options for outfits to wear into battle vs outfits to wear when in their homes. they have homes! and mechanically, the skills we give to our characters, whether we focus them on magic or combat, passive bonuses - all of that is a part of an rpg. i mean... you don't get to rp against other people in solo games, and yet.. people don't argue whether they are rpg's. there are solo rpg's that have far fewer visual as well as mechanical customization options then ESO and yet there is no doubt that they are rpg's. there are rpg's that have no preset emotes. no toys.

and seriously housing was the biggest thing ZOS could have done to help rp along. because now there's a plethora of options on creating actual environments to play out the stories in, while keeping them private enough to not be disrupted by those not into role playing.

LOTRO just has more tools for RP, they have these same things as are in ESO, and then some more. More ways to express oneself.

and? a lot of games have fewer tools. some of the single player rpg's don't even let you customize appearance or gender of your character (like Witcher) and yet are lauded as best rpg of the generation.

Did you play eq 2? It was far better designed then this in its group dynamics. And it did some things wrong as well. Forced grouping ? I dont know where you got that from the games lvling content was completely solo. It required grouping much like this game. Usually this type of comment leads me to believe the person did not play eq2 . What it did right was not make the game dps dependent it was dependent on playing your chosen class well

might have been thinking of original everquest. that said.. I don't understand highlighted comment and what you mean by that? having also looked up the specifics of the game, I'm trying to understand in what way was it done better when it comes to grouping, then ESO. objectively speaking

What the difference was , the game did not really force a dps check. Mechanics required true Cc, debuffing,and cleansing. They were not secondary effects of dps . Tanking required knowledge and aggro management . There was a team effort not an individual performance of how high your dps was. roles were more defined and required more them just dps tank and healing . There was cc ,buffing and debuffing .

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Bombashaman wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Bombashaman wrote: »

I just leave this here:

ESO isn't really an MMO in the traditional sense anyway:

"To answer your question about comparing ESO to other MMOs: ESO is not really a traditional MMO, so we don’t use that term much around the office – and it is this distinction that separates it from other games. If you want to play it solo, like you did with other Elder Scrolls games, you can do that. If you want to play it super-grindy with dungeons, Trials, and group bosses as the core of you experience, you can join up with others and do that too."

And made it even clearer in a recent interview last week:

“We don’t even use the term MMO with The Elder Scrolls Online anymore, because really it’s not,” game director Matt Firor says. “MMO was a term coined in 1997 with Ultima Online, EverQuest, and Dark Age of Camelot – we are not that game.”

He meant that ESO isn't a traditional MMO, but by the definition of an MMO, it is still an MMO, just not the kind of MMO that we are used to.

but its EXACTLY the kind of MMO's i'm used to. but.. i didn't get into MMO's until WoW came out and made MMO's accessible and playable solo. MMO hasn't meant "must group for everything, and cannot play solo at all" for a while now.

On one interview ZOS said ESO is "online RPG". So they dropped the Massive Multiplayer from the MMORPG. Which is kinda weird as ESO do feel massive, and there do are many players zooming around, but it sure as h*ll doesn't feel like an RPG. More like an adventure park.

it does feel like an rpg, a certain type of rpg. to me. but honestly it almost feels like ZOS is trying to appear to be different for the sake of seeming to be different even though they are not. to avoid the whole "another wannabe wow killer" stigma? or something. I don't even know, its the same mess with chapters. exercise in semantics to seem different

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

Sibenice wrote: »

zyk wrote: »

The only thing massively multiplayer about ESO is Cyrodiil. PVE content is mostly single player/coop. I think Online RPG is a fitting description.

You can do a large portion of WoW single player as well. Does that make it not an MMORPG? In fact, most of the MMOs I just dabbled in I did everything solo. Just because you have an option to not do things with other people does not make the game not an MMO.

though im not a fan of WOW, it has incredible amounts of group content across all its level tiers. this game has very very little group content. and a lot of that group content can be solo'd or duo'd

this game has lthe same amount of group content at all tiers as WoW does. possibly more, since with WoW you can outlevel EVERYTHING and including old raids (trial equivalents)that are MEANT to be soloed when at cap. here, you have to be pretty darn skilled and decently geared to solo instanced dungeons. in WoW.. all you need to do is go up a few levels. you can do far less grouping in WoW if you so wish, then in ESO.

world bosses in ESO unless you are above average? need a group. instanced dungeons? need a group and a bunch of them ARE meant to be done while still leveling. public dungeons - hit or miss, but its the equivalent of an overgeared WoW player soloing current dungeons. and btw, you can get overgeared in WoW completely solo as well, especially in this latest expansion. source? active WoW account. the only things I've been grouping for lately is once a week world bosses and holiday event - becasue for holiday event, you cannot reach it without being in group finder, at least as far as i know.

just out of cursiousity what end game activites are you doing in ESO currently and what incentive do you find to do it. Personaly im not a fan of Tam one . it was a step to far in one direction , the fact that most of the four mans can be solo'd if your a good player with good gear is an indication its CP system is completely broken. the basic problem with am one is they nerfed the game to a diluted state that requires no skill , community developed friendships, though i thought ESO was going ina good direction fo r its first year albiet very slowly. from my perspective ESO has now focused on making money of the community that does not even play the whole game. throw out some single player zone 3 times a year with some quests and bad story, pump out some crow crate items and milk the churning player base. From my perspective thats something you start doing post 5 years of launch after you have expanded and enriched game systems, AA have a full class an roll roster, and several options to end game activities. they could have done a lot more EQ2 type development .

I do mostly occasional trials and dungeons. and thank the bloody god they didn't do more of full on evercrack type development, the days of forced grouping in MMO's are long LONG gone. and they are NOT coming back. vast VAST majority of moddern mmo's (and I only say majority, rather then all becasue i haven't played all existing MMO's) offer a mix of solo and group content, with ability to solo your way to level cap and experience large chunks of the game solo, without having to group even once. its done so that you can choose to be social, while still staying casual

incidentally, no, i cannot solo dungeons in ESO, especialy not after one Tamriel. one tamriel has done more to force grouping than anything else in this game. i HAVE to be in a group to do them, yes even on story mode. most people can't, btw. there are people who, in WoW at least - solo current raid bosses. they are NOT the norm. they do it for the challenge and to see if they can, the rest of us - NEED to group for them. just becasue a few people can solo group content, doesn't make it any less of a content meant for and usually done in a group.

Bombashaman wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Bombashaman wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

it does feel like an rpg, a certain type of rpg. to me. but honestly it almost feels like ZOS is trying to appear to be different for the sake of seeming to be different even though they are not. to avoid the whole "another wannabe wow killer" stigma? or something. I don't even know, its the same mess with chapters. exercise in semantics to seem different.

ZOS and ESO doesn't really help RPing much. I'm comparing it to LOTRO as it is the other MMORPG I'm playing. LOTRO has better cosmetic system, more emotes and instruments you can play. Like really play, do music, pressing different notes. I don't RP, but many times I have stopped my grinding of different stuff just to pause and listen when group of roleplayers play like a band in towns.

Is a wonder, as this is supposed to be mmoRPG, that most of the people concentrate only that MMO part. In one poll, minority roleplays.

you know, I never understood that? I always thought that rp is about creativity of the mind. and rp doesn't always need to be done with other people. I like that in ESO I'm actualy helped by the game when it comes to figuring out what sort of person my character is - by being given choices in how I progress the quests. I have options for outfits to wear into battle vs outfits to wear when in their homes. they have homes! and mechanically, the skills we give to our characters, whether we focus them on magic or combat, passive bonuses - all of that is a part of an rpg. i mean... you don't get to rp against other people in solo games, and yet.. people don't argue whether they are rpg's. there are solo rpg's that have far fewer visual as well as mechanical customization options then ESO and yet there is no doubt that they are rpg's. there are rpg's that have no preset emotes. no toys.

and seriously housing was the biggest thing ZOS could have done to help rp along. because now there's a plethora of options on creating actual environments to play out the stories in, while keeping them private enough to not be disrupted by those not into role playing.

LOTRO just has more tools for RP, they have these same things as are in ESO, and then some more. More ways to express oneself.

and? a lot of games have fewer tools. some of the single player rpg's don't even let you customize appearance or gender of your character (like Witcher) and yet are lauded as best rpg of the generation.

Did you play eq 2? It was far better designed then this in its group dynamics. And it did some things wrong as well. Forced grouping ? I dont know where you got that from the games lvling content was completely solo. It required grouping much like this game. Usually this type of comment leads me to believe the person did not play eq2 . What it did right was not make the game dps dependent it was dependent on playing your chosen class well

might have been thinking of original everquest. that said.. I don't understand highlighted comment and what you mean by that? having also looked up the specifics of the game, I'm trying to understand in what way was it done better when it comes to grouping, then ESO. objectively speaking

What the difference was , the game did not really force a dps check. Mechanics required true Cc, debuffing,and cleansing. They were not secondary effects of dps . Tanking required knowledge and aggro management . There was a team effort not an individual performance of how high your dps was. roles were more defined and required more them just dps tank and healing . There was cc ,buffing and debuffing .

but.. its STILL a team effort. focusing too much on individual performance above working as a group is why so many groups are unsuccessful at clearing group content. cc is absolutely a thing. buffing and debuffing is most certainly something that is needed and is being done in ESO - cue my annoyance at having to pvp to unlock a particularly good and basicaly required group buff - Warhorn. those are not secondary effects of dps - those are abilities that people use specificaly in group content and ONLY in group content and their only purpose is to buff the group. the fact that you can chose not to do group content, IMO is a good thing, not a bad thing. that doesn't however negate the existence of group content.

ive cleared everything as a tank but Vmol VHOF and V sanct i have not really seen any true CC in any mechaincs . never have i seen DK ever use stone fist or sorc with cage. Early VR dungeon runs we did quite a bit of juggling with volcanic Rune but the days of trash having any signifcant challenge or sense of urgent communication are long gone in ESO everything is dumbed down to the point of questiong why your even running anything other then 4 DPS for 90 % of the content . And the reason why groups are unsuccessful is because they do not understand mechanics,failed to burn fast enough,or stood in red puddles. Debuffing and buffing are secondary effects most of the time of a ability that adds DPS or is healing all your doing is refreshing a timer of an ability that primarily did damge healed or taunted. Targeting is a loosy goosy AOE fest and aggro management is non existent. Sorry i just dont see the group dynamics your saying exist in ESO in 2017. they did early on but those days are long since gone. and if you say six axes in VAA ill roll my eyes.