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Is ESO an MMO?
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Bombashaman✭✭✭ESO is not an MMO, and focuses on solo play with some group content availableand? a lot of games have fewer tools. some of the single player rpg's don't even let you customize appearance or gender of your character (like Witcher) and yet are lauded as best rpg of the generation.
And. Nothing. Just saying ESO and ZOS could be more RP friendly MMORPG. They choose not to.
Edited by Bombashaman on June 29, 2017 2:25PM0 -
Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ESO is considered an MMO and has a blend of solo and group contentBombashaman wrote: »and? a lot of games have fewer tools. some of the single player rpg's don't even let you customize appearance or gender of your character (like Witcher) and yet are lauded as best rpg of the generation.
And. Nothing. Just saying ESO and ZOS could be more RP friendly MMORPG. They choose not to.
honestly, I think what rp friendly means is subjective. it depends entirely on the way you prefer to roleplaydirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***0 -
ozm8ey✭✭✭ESO is considered an MMO and has a blend of solo and group contentits both so its good if you're into solo play but if you like to play with others its good too0 -
dday3six✭✭✭✭✭
✭In the strictest sense of server type, yes. That means games like Destiny and Warframe are also MMOs under this classification. However, I've long maintained that ESO lacks both the polish and unified direction found in some other MMOs.0 -
kalimar44✭✭✭✭ESO is considered an MMO and has a blend of solo and group contentWhat a dumb question to ask. This must have been a millennial that asked this question.
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Creegz✭ESO is not an MMO, and focuses on solo play with some group content availableMy two cents is this game is absolutely an MMO. Just because you don't walk into a city and can't see the floor doesn't take out the first M in MMO. It's got a lot of people available to play together and accomplish goals. You don't have matchmaking or individual servers for each quest or town in order to find people, it's not like you need to connect to a specific lobby to go do a quest. You get into the game, wander around and do things, and you see others.
No game these days really follows MMO to the exact definition outside of Eve since most of these games do instancing to get around problems.0 -
Bombashaman✭✭✭ESO is not an MMO, and focuses on solo play with some group content availableBombashaman wrote: »and? a lot of games have fewer tools. some of the single player rpg's don't even let you customize appearance or gender of your character (like Witcher) and yet are lauded as best rpg of the generation.
And. Nothing. Just saying ESO and ZOS could be more RP friendly MMORPG. They choose not to.
honestly, I think what rp friendly means is subjective. it depends entirely on the way you prefer to roleplay
I...hmm. I'm just saying LOTRO gives more tools to express oneself. They have everything ESO has, and then some more. If you, for example, like to put up a band and roleplay you are musicians, in LOTRO you actually can dress yourselves more and then play the music by the note with different instruments. There is nothing in LOTRO to make RP worse. At least I haven't found one.0 -
soll✭✭✭ESO is considered an MMO and has a blend of solo and group contenthow about skyrim/morrowind boyz stop considering ESO as original TES solo games and cry, that ESO doesn't look like it, so they don't like it?
oh, look at this WoW, it's not like warcraft 3, I don't like it, can I have offline mode pls?
EU PC
I like to heal
Triggered Tryhards/ HighRisk
EP – Sollencia
AD – Sollencia Overdoseandreasranasen wrote: »When you've invested time and money into a company, you have the right to be upset over changes that will negatively affect your experience and gameplay.0 -
Bombashaman✭✭✭ESO is not an MMO, and focuses on solo play with some group content availablehow about skyrim/morrowind boyz stop considering ESO as original TES solo games and cry, that ESO doesn't look like it, so they don't like it?
oh, look at this WoW, it's not like warcraft 3, I don't like it, can I have offline mode pls?
Well from one poll, soloers are majority.
And nooooo I'm not going to dig that poll up, it took too much time to dig up one where it showed that minority really RP in this game even if this is an RPG. Not again!Edited by Bombashaman on June 29, 2017 5:34PM0 -
Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ESO is considered an MMO and has a blend of solo and group contentBombashaman wrote: »Bombashaman wrote: »and? a lot of games have fewer tools. some of the single player rpg's don't even let you customize appearance or gender of your character (like Witcher) and yet are lauded as best rpg of the generation.
And. Nothing. Just saying ESO and ZOS could be more RP friendly MMORPG. They choose not to.
honestly, I think what rp friendly means is subjective. it depends entirely on the way you prefer to roleplay
I...hmm. I'm just saying LOTRO gives more tools to express oneself. They have everything ESO has, and then some more. If you, for example, like to put up a band and roleplay you are musicians, in LOTRO you actually can dress yourselves more and then play the music by the note with different instruments. There is nothing in LOTRO to make RP worse. At least I haven't found one.
last I checked they don't give me any options as to how to complete quests - there is only one way to do it. and for me that is a hugely important part of roleplaying.dirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***0 -
KochDerDamonen✭✭✭✭✭
✭ESO is considered an MMO and has a blend of solo and group contentIn the strictest sense of server type, yes. That means games like Destiny and Warframe are also MMOs under this classification. However, I've long maintained that ESO lacks both the polish and unified direction found in some other MMOs.
@dday3six 'polish' and 'unified direction' do not define a game, they just present good design in that game.
If you quote someone, and intend for them to see what you have said, be sure to Mention them with @[insert name].0 -
Bombashaman✭✭✭ESO is not an MMO, and focuses on solo play with some group content availableBombashaman wrote: »Bombashaman wrote: »and? a lot of games have fewer tools. some of the single player rpg's don't even let you customize appearance or gender of your character (like Witcher) and yet are lauded as best rpg of the generation.
And. Nothing. Just saying ESO and ZOS could be more RP friendly MMORPG. They choose not to.
honestly, I think what rp friendly means is subjective. it depends entirely on the way you prefer to roleplay
I...hmm. I'm just saying LOTRO gives more tools to express oneself. They have everything ESO has, and then some more. If you, for example, like to put up a band and roleplay you are musicians, in LOTRO you actually can dress yourselves more and then play the music by the note with different instruments. There is nothing in LOTRO to make RP worse. At least I haven't found one.
last I checked they don't give me any options as to how to complete quests - there is only one way to do it. and for me that is a hugely important part of roleplaying.
Oh yeah. There is that. Instead of choosing one option, in ESO there are two. But APART FROM THAT...
I have never considered it a roleplay to choose from one of the two recorded (stored? Filed? Canned?) options. Then again, I really don't believe there can be much roleplaying between man and machine. Old Skool RuneQuest -roleplayer 4 life.
But yes you are right about that.Edited by Bombashaman on June 29, 2017 6:03PM0 -
Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ESO is considered an MMO and has a blend of solo and group contentBombashaman wrote: »Bombashaman wrote: »Bombashaman wrote: »and? a lot of games have fewer tools. some of the single player rpg's don't even let you customize appearance or gender of your character (like Witcher) and yet are lauded as best rpg of the generation.
And. Nothing. Just saying ESO and ZOS could be more RP friendly MMORPG. They choose not to.
honestly, I think what rp friendly means is subjective. it depends entirely on the way you prefer to roleplay
I...hmm. I'm just saying LOTRO gives more tools to express oneself. They have everything ESO has, and then some more. If you, for example, like to put up a band and roleplay you are musicians, in LOTRO you actually can dress yourselves more and then play the music by the note with different instruments. There is nothing in LOTRO to make RP worse. At least I haven't found one.
last I checked they don't give me any options as to how to complete quests - there is only one way to do it. and for me that is a hugely important part of roleplaying.
Oh yeah. There is that. Instead of choosing one option, in ESO there are two. But APART FROM THAT...
I have never considered it a roleplay to choose from one of the two recorded (stored? Filed? Canned?) options. Then again, I really don't believe there can be much roleplaying between man and machine. Old Skool RuneQuest -roleplayer 4 life.
But yes you are right about that.
single player role playing games beg to differ. but hey, to each their own. roleplaying gaming started with a bunch of people sitting around the table with pieces of paper and a bunch of dice as basically the only tools to have their imagination fly. so there is also that.
but yes, it is indeed roleplay to chose between predetermined options. its kinda how single player rpg's even work. those options are one of the tools to shape who your character is as a person.. if you let them (and there are times when its more then just 2 options as well)dirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***0 -
Zalicius✭✭✭ESO is considered an MMO and has a blend of solo and group contentI just had an ephihony.
Is ANY game and MMO?????????
Sure - any game with a lot of people played in an online world. That pretty much generalizes what an MMO is and many games fit that category.
I do realize you were being sarcastic btw.
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Wifeaggro13✭✭✭✭✭
✭ESO is not an MMO, and focuses on solo play with some group content availableWifeaggro13 wrote: »Bombashaman wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »Bombashaman wrote: »I just leave this here:
ESO isn't really an MMO in the traditional sense anyway:
"To answer your question about comparing ESO to other MMOs: ESO is not really a traditional MMO, so we don’t use that term much around the office – and it is this distinction that separates it from other games. If you want to play it solo, like you did with other Elder Scrolls games, you can do that. If you want to play it super-grindy with dungeons, Trials, and group bosses as the core of you experience, you can join up with others and do that too."
And made it even clearer in a recent interview last week:
“We don’t even use the term MMO with The Elder Scrolls Online anymore, because really it’s not,” game director Matt Firor says. “MMO was a term coined in 1997 with Ultima Online, EverQuest, and Dark Age of Camelot – we are not that game.”
He meant that ESO isn't a traditional MMO, but by the definition of an MMO, it is still an MMO, just not the kind of MMO that we are used to.
but its EXACTLY the kind of MMO's i'm used to. but.. i didn't get into MMO's until WoW came out and made MMO's accessible and playable solo. MMO hasn't meant "must group for everything, and cannot play solo at all" for a while now.
On one interview ZOS said ESO is "online RPG". So they dropped the Massive Multiplayer from the MMORPG. Which is kinda weird as ESO do feel massive, and there do are many players zooming around, but it sure as h*ll doesn't feel like an RPG. More like an adventure park.
it does feel like an rpg, a certain type of rpg. to me. but honestly it almost feels like ZOS is trying to appear to be different for the sake of seeming to be different even though they are not. to avoid the whole "another wannabe wow killer" stigma? or something. I don't even know, its the same mess with chapters. exercise in semantics to seem differentWifeaggro13 wrote: »The only thing massively multiplayer about ESO is Cyrodiil. PVE content is mostly single player/coop. I think Online RPG is a fitting description.
You can do a large portion of WoW single player as well. Does that make it not an MMORPG? In fact, most of the MMOs I just dabbled in I did everything solo. Just because you have an option to not do things with other people does not make the game not an MMO.
though im not a fan of WOW, it has incredible amounts of group content across all its level tiers. this game has very very little group content. and a lot of that group content can be solo'd or duo'd
this game has lthe same amount of group content at all tiers as WoW does. possibly more, since with WoW you can outlevel EVERYTHING and including old raids (trial equivalents)that are MEANT to be soloed when at cap. here, you have to be pretty darn skilled and decently geared to solo instanced dungeons. in WoW.. all you need to do is go up a few levels. you can do far less grouping in WoW if you so wish, then in ESO.
world bosses in ESO unless you are above average? need a group. instanced dungeons? need a group and a bunch of them ARE meant to be done while still leveling. public dungeons - hit or miss, but its the equivalent of an overgeared WoW player soloing current dungeons. and btw, you can get overgeared in WoW completely solo as well, especially in this latest expansion. source? active WoW account. the only things I've been grouping for lately is once a week world bosses and holiday event - becasue for holiday event, you cannot reach it without being in group finder, at least as far as i know.
just out of cursiousity what end game activites are you doing in ESO currently and what incentive do you find to do it. Personaly im not a fan of Tam one . it was a step to far in one direction , the fact that most of the four mans can be solo'd if your a good player with good gear is an indication its CP system is completely broken. the basic problem with am one is they nerfed the game to a diluted state that requires no skill , community developed friendships, though i thought ESO was going ina good direction fo r its first year albiet very slowly. from my perspective ESO has now focused on making money of the community that does not even play the whole game. throw out some single player zone 3 times a year with some quests and bad story, pump out some crow crate items and milk the churning player base. From my perspective thats something you start doing post 5 years of launch after you have expanded and enriched game systems, AA have a full class an roll roster, and several options to end game activities. they could have done a lot more EQ2 type development .
I do mostly occasional trials and dungeons. and thank the bloody god they didn't do more of full on evercrack type development, the days of forced grouping in MMO's are long LONG gone. and they are NOT coming back. vast VAST majority of moddern mmo's (and I only say majority, rather then all becasue i haven't played all existing MMO's) offer a mix of solo and group content, with ability to solo your way to level cap and experience large chunks of the game solo, without having to group even once. its done so that you can choose to be social, while still staying casual
incidentally, no, i cannot solo dungeons in ESO, especialy not after one Tamriel. one tamriel has done more to force grouping than anything else in this game. i HAVE to be in a group to do them, yes even on story mode. most people can't, btw. there are people who, in WoW at least - solo current raid bosses. they are NOT the norm. they do it for the challenge and to see if they can, the rest of us - NEED to group for them. just becasue a few people can solo group content, doesn't make it any less of a content meant for and usually done in a group.Bombashaman wrote: »Bombashaman wrote: »it does feel like an rpg, a certain type of rpg. to me. but honestly it almost feels like ZOS is trying to appear to be different for the sake of seeming to be different even though they are not. to avoid the whole "another wannabe wow killer" stigma? or something. I don't even know, its the same mess with chapters. exercise in semantics to seem different.
ZOS and ESO doesn't really help RPing much. I'm comparing it to LOTRO as it is the other MMORPG I'm playing. LOTRO has better cosmetic system, more emotes and instruments you can play. Like really play, do music, pressing different notes. I don't RP, but many times I have stopped my grinding of different stuff just to pause and listen when group of roleplayers play like a band in towns.
Is a wonder, as this is supposed to be mmoRPG, that most of the people concentrate only that MMO part. In one poll, minority roleplays.
you know, I never understood that? I always thought that rp is about creativity of the mind. and rp doesn't always need to be done with other people. I like that in ESO I'm actualy helped by the game when it comes to figuring out what sort of person my character is - by being given choices in how I progress the quests. I have options for outfits to wear into battle vs outfits to wear when in their homes. they have homes! and mechanically, the skills we give to our characters, whether we focus them on magic or combat, passive bonuses - all of that is a part of an rpg. i mean... you don't get to rp against other people in solo games, and yet.. people don't argue whether they are rpg's. there are solo rpg's that have far fewer visual as well as mechanical customization options then ESO and yet there is no doubt that they are rpg's. there are rpg's that have no preset emotes. no toys.
and seriously housing was the biggest thing ZOS could have done to help rp along. because now there's a plethora of options on creating actual environments to play out the stories in, while keeping them private enough to not be disrupted by those not into role playing.
LOTRO just has more tools for RP, they have these same things as are in ESO, and then some more. More ways to express oneself.
and? a lot of games have fewer tools. some of the single player rpg's don't even let you customize appearance or gender of your character (like Witcher) and yet are lauded as best rpg of the generation.
Did you play eq 2? It was far better designed then this in its group dynamics. And it did some things wrong as well. Forced grouping ? I dont know where you got that from the games lvling content was completely solo. It required grouping much like this game. Usually this type of comment leads me to believe the person did not play eq2 . What it did right was not make the game dps dependent it was dependent on playing your chosen class well
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dday3six✭✭✭✭✭
✭KochDerDamonen wrote: »In the strictest sense of server type, yes. That means games like Destiny and Warframe are also MMOs under this classification. However, I've long maintained that ESO lacks both the polish and unified direction found in some other MMOs.
*dday3six 'polish' and 'unified direction' do not define a game, they just present good design in that game.
True. I was more providing some possible reasons why players might feel ESO is not an MMO.
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Bombashaman✭✭✭ESO is not an MMO, and focuses on solo play with some group content availableBombashaman wrote: »Bombashaman wrote: »Bombashaman wrote: »and? a lot of games have fewer tools. some of the single player rpg's don't even let you customize appearance or gender of your character (like Witcher) and yet are lauded as best rpg of the generation.
And. Nothing. Just saying ESO and ZOS could be more RP friendly MMORPG. They choose not to.
honestly, I think what rp friendly means is subjective. it depends entirely on the way you prefer to roleplay
I...hmm. I'm just saying LOTRO gives more tools to express oneself. They have everything ESO has, and then some more. If you, for example, like to put up a band and roleplay you are musicians, in LOTRO you actually can dress yourselves more and then play the music by the note with different instruments. There is nothing in LOTRO to make RP worse. At least I haven't found one.
last I checked they don't give me any options as to how to complete quests - there is only one way to do it. and for me that is a hugely important part of roleplaying.
Oh yeah. There is that. Instead of choosing one option, in ESO there are two. But APART FROM THAT...
I have never considered it a roleplay to choose from one of the two recorded (stored? Filed? Canned?) options. Then again, I really don't believe there can be much roleplaying between man and machine. Old Skool RuneQuest -roleplayer 4 life.
But yes you are right about that.
single player role playing games beg to differ. but hey, to each their own. roleplaying gaming started with a bunch of people sitting around the table with pieces of paper and a bunch of dice as basically the only tools to have their imagination fly. so there is also that.
but yes, it is indeed roleplay to chose between predetermined options. its kinda how single player rpg's even work. those options are one of the tools to shape who your character is as a person.. if you let them (and there are times when its more then just 2 options as well)
It's just...predetermined responses etc just don't do it for me. One reason I don't even try to RP single player "RPG"'s, and even less with MMORPGs. To roleplay, to play a role, there shouldn't be any barriers what playing a computer game does.
But that is just for me. I play pen and paper RP and then play these games like an adventure game.0 -
Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ESO is considered an MMO and has a blend of solo and group contentWifeaggro13 wrote: »Wifeaggro13 wrote: »Bombashaman wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »Bombashaman wrote: »I just leave this here:
ESO isn't really an MMO in the traditional sense anyway:
"To answer your question about comparing ESO to other MMOs: ESO is not really a traditional MMO, so we don’t use that term much around the office – and it is this distinction that separates it from other games. If you want to play it solo, like you did with other Elder Scrolls games, you can do that. If you want to play it super-grindy with dungeons, Trials, and group bosses as the core of you experience, you can join up with others and do that too."
And made it even clearer in a recent interview last week:
“We don’t even use the term MMO with The Elder Scrolls Online anymore, because really it’s not,” game director Matt Firor says. “MMO was a term coined in 1997 with Ultima Online, EverQuest, and Dark Age of Camelot – we are not that game.”
He meant that ESO isn't a traditional MMO, but by the definition of an MMO, it is still an MMO, just not the kind of MMO that we are used to.
but its EXACTLY the kind of MMO's i'm used to. but.. i didn't get into MMO's until WoW came out and made MMO's accessible and playable solo. MMO hasn't meant "must group for everything, and cannot play solo at all" for a while now.
On one interview ZOS said ESO is "online RPG". So they dropped the Massive Multiplayer from the MMORPG. Which is kinda weird as ESO do feel massive, and there do are many players zooming around, but it sure as h*ll doesn't feel like an RPG. More like an adventure park.
it does feel like an rpg, a certain type of rpg. to me. but honestly it almost feels like ZOS is trying to appear to be different for the sake of seeming to be different even though they are not. to avoid the whole "another wannabe wow killer" stigma? or something. I don't even know, its the same mess with chapters. exercise in semantics to seem differentWifeaggro13 wrote: »The only thing massively multiplayer about ESO is Cyrodiil. PVE content is mostly single player/coop. I think Online RPG is a fitting description.
You can do a large portion of WoW single player as well. Does that make it not an MMORPG? In fact, most of the MMOs I just dabbled in I did everything solo. Just because you have an option to not do things with other people does not make the game not an MMO.
though im not a fan of WOW, it has incredible amounts of group content across all its level tiers. this game has very very little group content. and a lot of that group content can be solo'd or duo'd
this game has lthe same amount of group content at all tiers as WoW does. possibly more, since with WoW you can outlevel EVERYTHING and including old raids (trial equivalents)that are MEANT to be soloed when at cap. here, you have to be pretty darn skilled and decently geared to solo instanced dungeons. in WoW.. all you need to do is go up a few levels. you can do far less grouping in WoW if you so wish, then in ESO.
world bosses in ESO unless you are above average? need a group. instanced dungeons? need a group and a bunch of them ARE meant to be done while still leveling. public dungeons - hit or miss, but its the equivalent of an overgeared WoW player soloing current dungeons. and btw, you can get overgeared in WoW completely solo as well, especially in this latest expansion. source? active WoW account. the only things I've been grouping for lately is once a week world bosses and holiday event - becasue for holiday event, you cannot reach it without being in group finder, at least as far as i know.
just out of cursiousity what end game activites are you doing in ESO currently and what incentive do you find to do it. Personaly im not a fan of Tam one . it was a step to far in one direction , the fact that most of the four mans can be solo'd if your a good player with good gear is an indication its CP system is completely broken. the basic problem with am one is they nerfed the game to a diluted state that requires no skill , community developed friendships, though i thought ESO was going ina good direction fo r its first year albiet very slowly. from my perspective ESO has now focused on making money of the community that does not even play the whole game. throw out some single player zone 3 times a year with some quests and bad story, pump out some crow crate items and milk the churning player base. From my perspective thats something you start doing post 5 years of launch after you have expanded and enriched game systems, AA have a full class an roll roster, and several options to end game activities. they could have done a lot more EQ2 type development .
I do mostly occasional trials and dungeons. and thank the bloody god they didn't do more of full on evercrack type development, the days of forced grouping in MMO's are long LONG gone. and they are NOT coming back. vast VAST majority of moddern mmo's (and I only say majority, rather then all becasue i haven't played all existing MMO's) offer a mix of solo and group content, with ability to solo your way to level cap and experience large chunks of the game solo, without having to group even once. its done so that you can choose to be social, while still staying casual
incidentally, no, i cannot solo dungeons in ESO, especialy not after one Tamriel. one tamriel has done more to force grouping than anything else in this game. i HAVE to be in a group to do them, yes even on story mode. most people can't, btw. there are people who, in WoW at least - solo current raid bosses. they are NOT the norm. they do it for the challenge and to see if they can, the rest of us - NEED to group for them. just becasue a few people can solo group content, doesn't make it any less of a content meant for and usually done in a group.Bombashaman wrote: »Bombashaman wrote: »it does feel like an rpg, a certain type of rpg. to me. but honestly it almost feels like ZOS is trying to appear to be different for the sake of seeming to be different even though they are not. to avoid the whole "another wannabe wow killer" stigma? or something. I don't even know, its the same mess with chapters. exercise in semantics to seem different.
ZOS and ESO doesn't really help RPing much. I'm comparing it to LOTRO as it is the other MMORPG I'm playing. LOTRO has better cosmetic system, more emotes and instruments you can play. Like really play, do music, pressing different notes. I don't RP, but many times I have stopped my grinding of different stuff just to pause and listen when group of roleplayers play like a band in towns.
Is a wonder, as this is supposed to be mmoRPG, that most of the people concentrate only that MMO part. In one poll, minority roleplays.
you know, I never understood that? I always thought that rp is about creativity of the mind. and rp doesn't always need to be done with other people. I like that in ESO I'm actualy helped by the game when it comes to figuring out what sort of person my character is - by being given choices in how I progress the quests. I have options for outfits to wear into battle vs outfits to wear when in their homes. they have homes! and mechanically, the skills we give to our characters, whether we focus them on magic or combat, passive bonuses - all of that is a part of an rpg. i mean... you don't get to rp against other people in solo games, and yet.. people don't argue whether they are rpg's. there are solo rpg's that have far fewer visual as well as mechanical customization options then ESO and yet there is no doubt that they are rpg's. there are rpg's that have no preset emotes. no toys.
and seriously housing was the biggest thing ZOS could have done to help rp along. because now there's a plethora of options on creating actual environments to play out the stories in, while keeping them private enough to not be disrupted by those not into role playing.
LOTRO just has more tools for RP, they have these same things as are in ESO, and then some more. More ways to express oneself.
and? a lot of games have fewer tools. some of the single player rpg's don't even let you customize appearance or gender of your character (like Witcher) and yet are lauded as best rpg of the generation.
Did you play eq 2? It was far better designed then this in its group dynamics. And it did some things wrong as well. Forced grouping ? I dont know where you got that from the games lvling content was completely solo. It required grouping much like this game. Usually this type of comment leads me to believe the person did not play eq2 . What it did right was not make the game dps dependent it was dependent on playing your chosen class well
might have been thinking of original everquest. that said.. I don't understand highlighted comment and what you mean by that? having also looked up the specifics of the game, I'm trying to understand in what way was it done better when it comes to grouping, then ESO. objectively speakingdirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***0 -
Pele✭✭✭✭✭ESO is considered an MMO and has a blend of solo and group content
Why? I'm just curious because it seems like such a pointless thing to argue about. Am I missing something that makes such an argument worthwhile?I've been arguing a point of technicality with several other players ...0 -
Wifeaggro13✭✭✭✭✭
✭ESO is not an MMO, and focuses on solo play with some group content availableWifeaggro13 wrote: »Wifeaggro13 wrote: »Bombashaman wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »Bombashaman wrote: »I just leave this here:
ESO isn't really an MMO in the traditional sense anyway:
"To answer your question about comparing ESO to other MMOs: ESO is not really a traditional MMO, so we don’t use that term much around the office – and it is this distinction that separates it from other games. If you want to play it solo, like you did with other Elder Scrolls games, you can do that. If you want to play it super-grindy with dungeons, Trials, and group bosses as the core of you experience, you can join up with others and do that too."
And made it even clearer in a recent interview last week:
“We don’t even use the term MMO with The Elder Scrolls Online anymore, because really it’s not,” game director Matt Firor says. “MMO was a term coined in 1997 with Ultima Online, EverQuest, and Dark Age of Camelot – we are not that game.”
He meant that ESO isn't a traditional MMO, but by the definition of an MMO, it is still an MMO, just not the kind of MMO that we are used to.
but its EXACTLY the kind of MMO's i'm used to. but.. i didn't get into MMO's until WoW came out and made MMO's accessible and playable solo. MMO hasn't meant "must group for everything, and cannot play solo at all" for a while now.
On one interview ZOS said ESO is "online RPG". So they dropped the Massive Multiplayer from the MMORPG. Which is kinda weird as ESO do feel massive, and there do are many players zooming around, but it sure as h*ll doesn't feel like an RPG. More like an adventure park.
it does feel like an rpg, a certain type of rpg. to me. but honestly it almost feels like ZOS is trying to appear to be different for the sake of seeming to be different even though they are not. to avoid the whole "another wannabe wow killer" stigma? or something. I don't even know, its the same mess with chapters. exercise in semantics to seem differentWifeaggro13 wrote: »The only thing massively multiplayer about ESO is Cyrodiil. PVE content is mostly single player/coop. I think Online RPG is a fitting description.
You can do a large portion of WoW single player as well. Does that make it not an MMORPG? In fact, most of the MMOs I just dabbled in I did everything solo. Just because you have an option to not do things with other people does not make the game not an MMO.
though im not a fan of WOW, it has incredible amounts of group content across all its level tiers. this game has very very little group content. and a lot of that group content can be solo'd or duo'd
this game has lthe same amount of group content at all tiers as WoW does. possibly more, since with WoW you can outlevel EVERYTHING and including old raids (trial equivalents)that are MEANT to be soloed when at cap. here, you have to be pretty darn skilled and decently geared to solo instanced dungeons. in WoW.. all you need to do is go up a few levels. you can do far less grouping in WoW if you so wish, then in ESO.
world bosses in ESO unless you are above average? need a group. instanced dungeons? need a group and a bunch of them ARE meant to be done while still leveling. public dungeons - hit or miss, but its the equivalent of an overgeared WoW player soloing current dungeons. and btw, you can get overgeared in WoW completely solo as well, especially in this latest expansion. source? active WoW account. the only things I've been grouping for lately is once a week world bosses and holiday event - becasue for holiday event, you cannot reach it without being in group finder, at least as far as i know.
just out of cursiousity what end game activites are you doing in ESO currently and what incentive do you find to do it. Personaly im not a fan of Tam one . it was a step to far in one direction , the fact that most of the four mans can be solo'd if your a good player with good gear is an indication its CP system is completely broken. the basic problem with am one is they nerfed the game to a diluted state that requires no skill , community developed friendships, though i thought ESO was going ina good direction fo r its first year albiet very slowly. from my perspective ESO has now focused on making money of the community that does not even play the whole game. throw out some single player zone 3 times a year with some quests and bad story, pump out some crow crate items and milk the churning player base. From my perspective thats something you start doing post 5 years of launch after you have expanded and enriched game systems, AA have a full class an roll roster, and several options to end game activities. they could have done a lot more EQ2 type development .
I do mostly occasional trials and dungeons. and thank the bloody god they didn't do more of full on evercrack type development, the days of forced grouping in MMO's are long LONG gone. and they are NOT coming back. vast VAST majority of moddern mmo's (and I only say majority, rather then all becasue i haven't played all existing MMO's) offer a mix of solo and group content, with ability to solo your way to level cap and experience large chunks of the game solo, without having to group even once. its done so that you can choose to be social, while still staying casual
incidentally, no, i cannot solo dungeons in ESO, especialy not after one Tamriel. one tamriel has done more to force grouping than anything else in this game. i HAVE to be in a group to do them, yes even on story mode. most people can't, btw. there are people who, in WoW at least - solo current raid bosses. they are NOT the norm. they do it for the challenge and to see if they can, the rest of us - NEED to group for them. just becasue a few people can solo group content, doesn't make it any less of a content meant for and usually done in a group.Bombashaman wrote: »Bombashaman wrote: »it does feel like an rpg, a certain type of rpg. to me. but honestly it almost feels like ZOS is trying to appear to be different for the sake of seeming to be different even though they are not. to avoid the whole "another wannabe wow killer" stigma? or something. I don't even know, its the same mess with chapters. exercise in semantics to seem different.
ZOS and ESO doesn't really help RPing much. I'm comparing it to LOTRO as it is the other MMORPG I'm playing. LOTRO has better cosmetic system, more emotes and instruments you can play. Like really play, do music, pressing different notes. I don't RP, but many times I have stopped my grinding of different stuff just to pause and listen when group of roleplayers play like a band in towns.
Is a wonder, as this is supposed to be mmoRPG, that most of the people concentrate only that MMO part. In one poll, minority roleplays.
you know, I never understood that? I always thought that rp is about creativity of the mind. and rp doesn't always need to be done with other people. I like that in ESO I'm actualy helped by the game when it comes to figuring out what sort of person my character is - by being given choices in how I progress the quests. I have options for outfits to wear into battle vs outfits to wear when in their homes. they have homes! and mechanically, the skills we give to our characters, whether we focus them on magic or combat, passive bonuses - all of that is a part of an rpg. i mean... you don't get to rp against other people in solo games, and yet.. people don't argue whether they are rpg's. there are solo rpg's that have far fewer visual as well as mechanical customization options then ESO and yet there is no doubt that they are rpg's. there are rpg's that have no preset emotes. no toys.
and seriously housing was the biggest thing ZOS could have done to help rp along. because now there's a plethora of options on creating actual environments to play out the stories in, while keeping them private enough to not be disrupted by those not into role playing.
LOTRO just has more tools for RP, they have these same things as are in ESO, and then some more. More ways to express oneself.
and? a lot of games have fewer tools. some of the single player rpg's don't even let you customize appearance or gender of your character (like Witcher) and yet are lauded as best rpg of the generation.
Did you play eq 2? It was far better designed then this in its group dynamics. And it did some things wrong as well. Forced grouping ? I dont know where you got that from the games lvling content was completely solo. It required grouping much like this game. Usually this type of comment leads me to believe the person did not play eq2 . What it did right was not make the game dps dependent it was dependent on playing your chosen class well
might have been thinking of original everquest. that said.. I don't understand highlighted comment and what you mean by that? having also looked up the specifics of the game, I'm trying to understand in what way was it done better when it comes to grouping, then ESO. objectively speaking
What the difference was , the game did not really force a dps check. Mechanics required true Cc, debuffing,and cleansing. They were not secondary effects of dps . Tanking required knowledge and aggro management . There was a team effort not an individual performance of how high your dps was. roles were more defined and required more them just dps tank and healing . There was cc ,buffing and debuffing .Edited by Wifeaggro13 on June 29, 2017 10:30PM0 -
Bombashaman✭✭✭ESO is not an MMO, and focuses on solo play with some group content available
Because argu...debating is fun!
C'mon, admit it, MMO's aren't what they used to be. They are more like single player theme parks with some group and PvP flavor on it. I honestly can say I can do my thing in ESO and not have a touch on what they call MMORPG. Or at least what they call MMORPG in this: http://www.dictionary.com/browse/mmorpg . Playing in the off hours in a remote place doing my shait, it feels just like a simplified Skyrim.
But the reason I voted "no, not MMO", was that Matt Firor, the game director of ESO, said that ESO is not an MMO. I'm just a playa, he is the one making the game, he knows better.
I hope.
...like, really hope.Edited by Bombashaman on June 29, 2017 10:27PM3 -
dusk194✭✭ESO is considered an MMO and has a blend of solo and group contentJusr because he's one of many professional who are working on one of many games, does not mean that he wasn't simply speaking his opinion during an interview, where he was also likly attempting to appeal to a broad market of consumers.
As for the dictionary, i'm the one who origionaly quoted it in the last thread. It is the very definition of the genera that ESO portrays. Anything further is a matter of personal interpretations. ZOS didn't reinvent the wheel with this title. They attempted to improve off pre-existing content, in a pre-existing market as an MMO, an RPG, and an elder scrolls title. And like any digital production studio, they alter the game model where necessary with creative flair and uniqe direction.
Yes your previous arguments are naive. You're portraying that a creative direction is reality, its not. You're also claiming that an "experts" opinion is infallible, its not. However, this is not an assult on his position either, ZOS has made an outstsanding product, but its clearly an MMO RPG by globaly excepted definitions regaurdless of what you or Matt says.0 -
NewBlacksmurf✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Bombashaman wrote: »NewBlacksmurf wrote: »Ppl are trying to make the gameplay like other older massive server based RPG games.
Technically any game with a massive amount of players on a Live server is a MMO
Happily those days are over. I was there. Too much stress.
We now really can have everything. Some say this is the last MMORPG to have any potential. Why should we have to categorize it? We could have something for everyone. I really hope we could have it.
Impossible to have something for everyone.
Log in and play if u like it stay and u don't leave.
I play about 5 hours/month on a good month since April 17Edited by NewBlacksmurf on June 30, 2017 2:13AM-PC (PTS)/Xbox One: NewBlacksmurf
~<{[50]}>~ looks better than *5010 -
Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ESO is considered an MMO and has a blend of solo and group contentWifeaggro13 wrote: »Wifeaggro13 wrote: »Wifeaggro13 wrote: »Bombashaman wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »Bombashaman wrote: »I just leave this here:
ESO isn't really an MMO in the traditional sense anyway:
"To answer your question about comparing ESO to other MMOs: ESO is not really a traditional MMO, so we don’t use that term much around the office – and it is this distinction that separates it from other games. If you want to play it solo, like you did with other Elder Scrolls games, you can do that. If you want to play it super-grindy with dungeons, Trials, and group bosses as the core of you experience, you can join up with others and do that too."
And made it even clearer in a recent interview last week:
“We don’t even use the term MMO with The Elder Scrolls Online anymore, because really it’s not,” game director Matt Firor says. “MMO was a term coined in 1997 with Ultima Online, EverQuest, and Dark Age of Camelot – we are not that game.”
He meant that ESO isn't a traditional MMO, but by the definition of an MMO, it is still an MMO, just not the kind of MMO that we are used to.
but its EXACTLY the kind of MMO's i'm used to. but.. i didn't get into MMO's until WoW came out and made MMO's accessible and playable solo. MMO hasn't meant "must group for everything, and cannot play solo at all" for a while now.
On one interview ZOS said ESO is "online RPG". So they dropped the Massive Multiplayer from the MMORPG. Which is kinda weird as ESO do feel massive, and there do are many players zooming around, but it sure as h*ll doesn't feel like an RPG. More like an adventure park.
it does feel like an rpg, a certain type of rpg. to me. but honestly it almost feels like ZOS is trying to appear to be different for the sake of seeming to be different even though they are not. to avoid the whole "another wannabe wow killer" stigma? or something. I don't even know, its the same mess with chapters. exercise in semantics to seem differentWifeaggro13 wrote: »The only thing massively multiplayer about ESO is Cyrodiil. PVE content is mostly single player/coop. I think Online RPG is a fitting description.
You can do a large portion of WoW single player as well. Does that make it not an MMORPG? In fact, most of the MMOs I just dabbled in I did everything solo. Just because you have an option to not do things with other people does not make the game not an MMO.
though im not a fan of WOW, it has incredible amounts of group content across all its level tiers. this game has very very little group content. and a lot of that group content can be solo'd or duo'd
this game has lthe same amount of group content at all tiers as WoW does. possibly more, since with WoW you can outlevel EVERYTHING and including old raids (trial equivalents)that are MEANT to be soloed when at cap. here, you have to be pretty darn skilled and decently geared to solo instanced dungeons. in WoW.. all you need to do is go up a few levels. you can do far less grouping in WoW if you so wish, then in ESO.
world bosses in ESO unless you are above average? need a group. instanced dungeons? need a group and a bunch of them ARE meant to be done while still leveling. public dungeons - hit or miss, but its the equivalent of an overgeared WoW player soloing current dungeons. and btw, you can get overgeared in WoW completely solo as well, especially in this latest expansion. source? active WoW account. the only things I've been grouping for lately is once a week world bosses and holiday event - becasue for holiday event, you cannot reach it without being in group finder, at least as far as i know.
just out of cursiousity what end game activites are you doing in ESO currently and what incentive do you find to do it. Personaly im not a fan of Tam one . it was a step to far in one direction , the fact that most of the four mans can be solo'd if your a good player with good gear is an indication its CP system is completely broken. the basic problem with am one is they nerfed the game to a diluted state that requires no skill , community developed friendships, though i thought ESO was going ina good direction fo r its first year albiet very slowly. from my perspective ESO has now focused on making money of the community that does not even play the whole game. throw out some single player zone 3 times a year with some quests and bad story, pump out some crow crate items and milk the churning player base. From my perspective thats something you start doing post 5 years of launch after you have expanded and enriched game systems, AA have a full class an roll roster, and several options to end game activities. they could have done a lot more EQ2 type development .
I do mostly occasional trials and dungeons. and thank the bloody god they didn't do more of full on evercrack type development, the days of forced grouping in MMO's are long LONG gone. and they are NOT coming back. vast VAST majority of moddern mmo's (and I only say majority, rather then all becasue i haven't played all existing MMO's) offer a mix of solo and group content, with ability to solo your way to level cap and experience large chunks of the game solo, without having to group even once. its done so that you can choose to be social, while still staying casual
incidentally, no, i cannot solo dungeons in ESO, especialy not after one Tamriel. one tamriel has done more to force grouping than anything else in this game. i HAVE to be in a group to do them, yes even on story mode. most people can't, btw. there are people who, in WoW at least - solo current raid bosses. they are NOT the norm. they do it for the challenge and to see if they can, the rest of us - NEED to group for them. just becasue a few people can solo group content, doesn't make it any less of a content meant for and usually done in a group.Bombashaman wrote: »Bombashaman wrote: »it does feel like an rpg, a certain type of rpg. to me. but honestly it almost feels like ZOS is trying to appear to be different for the sake of seeming to be different even though they are not. to avoid the whole "another wannabe wow killer" stigma? or something. I don't even know, its the same mess with chapters. exercise in semantics to seem different.
ZOS and ESO doesn't really help RPing much. I'm comparing it to LOTRO as it is the other MMORPG I'm playing. LOTRO has better cosmetic system, more emotes and instruments you can play. Like really play, do music, pressing different notes. I don't RP, but many times I have stopped my grinding of different stuff just to pause and listen when group of roleplayers play like a band in towns.
Is a wonder, as this is supposed to be mmoRPG, that most of the people concentrate only that MMO part. In one poll, minority roleplays.
you know, I never understood that? I always thought that rp is about creativity of the mind. and rp doesn't always need to be done with other people. I like that in ESO I'm actualy helped by the game when it comes to figuring out what sort of person my character is - by being given choices in how I progress the quests. I have options for outfits to wear into battle vs outfits to wear when in their homes. they have homes! and mechanically, the skills we give to our characters, whether we focus them on magic or combat, passive bonuses - all of that is a part of an rpg. i mean... you don't get to rp against other people in solo games, and yet.. people don't argue whether they are rpg's. there are solo rpg's that have far fewer visual as well as mechanical customization options then ESO and yet there is no doubt that they are rpg's. there are rpg's that have no preset emotes. no toys.
and seriously housing was the biggest thing ZOS could have done to help rp along. because now there's a plethora of options on creating actual environments to play out the stories in, while keeping them private enough to not be disrupted by those not into role playing.
LOTRO just has more tools for RP, they have these same things as are in ESO, and then some more. More ways to express oneself.
and? a lot of games have fewer tools. some of the single player rpg's don't even let you customize appearance or gender of your character (like Witcher) and yet are lauded as best rpg of the generation.
Did you play eq 2? It was far better designed then this in its group dynamics. And it did some things wrong as well. Forced grouping ? I dont know where you got that from the games lvling content was completely solo. It required grouping much like this game. Usually this type of comment leads me to believe the person did not play eq2 . What it did right was not make the game dps dependent it was dependent on playing your chosen class well
might have been thinking of original everquest. that said.. I don't understand highlighted comment and what you mean by that? having also looked up the specifics of the game, I'm trying to understand in what way was it done better when it comes to grouping, then ESO. objectively speaking
What the difference was , the game did not really force a dps check. Mechanics required true Cc, debuffing,and cleansing. They were not secondary effects of dps . Tanking required knowledge and aggro management . There was a team effort not an individual performance of how high your dps was. roles were more defined and required more them just dps tank and healing . There was cc ,buffing and debuffing .
but.. its STILL a team effort. focusing too much on individual performance above working as a group is why so many groups are unsuccessful at clearing group content. cc is absolutely a thing. buffing and debuffing is most certainly something that is needed and is being done in ESO - cue my annoyance at having to pvp to unlock a particularly good and basicaly required group buff - Warhorn. those are not secondary effects of dps - those are abilities that people use specificaly in group content and ONLY in group content and their only purpose is to buff the group. the fact that you can chose not to do group content, IMO is a good thing, not a bad thing. that doesn't however negate the existence of group content.
dirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***0 -
Wifeaggro13✭✭✭✭✭
✭ESO is not an MMO, and focuses on solo play with some group content availableWifeaggro13 wrote: »Wifeaggro13 wrote: »Wifeaggro13 wrote: »Bombashaman wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »Bombashaman wrote: »I just leave this here:
ESO isn't really an MMO in the traditional sense anyway:
"To answer your question about comparing ESO to other MMOs: ESO is not really a traditional MMO, so we don’t use that term much around the office – and it is this distinction that separates it from other games. If you want to play it solo, like you did with other Elder Scrolls games, you can do that. If you want to play it super-grindy with dungeons, Trials, and group bosses as the core of you experience, you can join up with others and do that too."
And made it even clearer in a recent interview last week:
“We don’t even use the term MMO with The Elder Scrolls Online anymore, because really it’s not,” game director Matt Firor says. “MMO was a term coined in 1997 with Ultima Online, EverQuest, and Dark Age of Camelot – we are not that game.”
He meant that ESO isn't a traditional MMO, but by the definition of an MMO, it is still an MMO, just not the kind of MMO that we are used to.
but its EXACTLY the kind of MMO's i'm used to. but.. i didn't get into MMO's until WoW came out and made MMO's accessible and playable solo. MMO hasn't meant "must group for everything, and cannot play solo at all" for a while now.
On one interview ZOS said ESO is "online RPG". So they dropped the Massive Multiplayer from the MMORPG. Which is kinda weird as ESO do feel massive, and there do are many players zooming around, but it sure as h*ll doesn't feel like an RPG. More like an adventure park.
it does feel like an rpg, a certain type of rpg. to me. but honestly it almost feels like ZOS is trying to appear to be different for the sake of seeming to be different even though they are not. to avoid the whole "another wannabe wow killer" stigma? or something. I don't even know, its the same mess with chapters. exercise in semantics to seem differentWifeaggro13 wrote: »The only thing massively multiplayer about ESO is Cyrodiil. PVE content is mostly single player/coop. I think Online RPG is a fitting description.
You can do a large portion of WoW single player as well. Does that make it not an MMORPG? In fact, most of the MMOs I just dabbled in I did everything solo. Just because you have an option to not do things with other people does not make the game not an MMO.
though im not a fan of WOW, it has incredible amounts of group content across all its level tiers. this game has very very little group content. and a lot of that group content can be solo'd or duo'd
this game has lthe same amount of group content at all tiers as WoW does. possibly more, since with WoW you can outlevel EVERYTHING and including old raids (trial equivalents)that are MEANT to be soloed when at cap. here, you have to be pretty darn skilled and decently geared to solo instanced dungeons. in WoW.. all you need to do is go up a few levels. you can do far less grouping in WoW if you so wish, then in ESO.
world bosses in ESO unless you are above average? need a group. instanced dungeons? need a group and a bunch of them ARE meant to be done while still leveling. public dungeons - hit or miss, but its the equivalent of an overgeared WoW player soloing current dungeons. and btw, you can get overgeared in WoW completely solo as well, especially in this latest expansion. source? active WoW account. the only things I've been grouping for lately is once a week world bosses and holiday event - becasue for holiday event, you cannot reach it without being in group finder, at least as far as i know.
just out of cursiousity what end game activites are you doing in ESO currently and what incentive do you find to do it. Personaly im not a fan of Tam one . it was a step to far in one direction , the fact that most of the four mans can be solo'd if your a good player with good gear is an indication its CP system is completely broken. the basic problem with am one is they nerfed the game to a diluted state that requires no skill , community developed friendships, though i thought ESO was going ina good direction fo r its first year albiet very slowly. from my perspective ESO has now focused on making money of the community that does not even play the whole game. throw out some single player zone 3 times a year with some quests and bad story, pump out some crow crate items and milk the churning player base. From my perspective thats something you start doing post 5 years of launch after you have expanded and enriched game systems, AA have a full class an roll roster, and several options to end game activities. they could have done a lot more EQ2 type development .
I do mostly occasional trials and dungeons. and thank the bloody god they didn't do more of full on evercrack type development, the days of forced grouping in MMO's are long LONG gone. and they are NOT coming back. vast VAST majority of moddern mmo's (and I only say majority, rather then all becasue i haven't played all existing MMO's) offer a mix of solo and group content, with ability to solo your way to level cap and experience large chunks of the game solo, without having to group even once. its done so that you can choose to be social, while still staying casual
incidentally, no, i cannot solo dungeons in ESO, especialy not after one Tamriel. one tamriel has done more to force grouping than anything else in this game. i HAVE to be in a group to do them, yes even on story mode. most people can't, btw. there are people who, in WoW at least - solo current raid bosses. they are NOT the norm. they do it for the challenge and to see if they can, the rest of us - NEED to group for them. just becasue a few people can solo group content, doesn't make it any less of a content meant for and usually done in a group.Bombashaman wrote: »Bombashaman wrote: »it does feel like an rpg, a certain type of rpg. to me. but honestly it almost feels like ZOS is trying to appear to be different for the sake of seeming to be different even though they are not. to avoid the whole "another wannabe wow killer" stigma? or something. I don't even know, its the same mess with chapters. exercise in semantics to seem different.
ZOS and ESO doesn't really help RPing much. I'm comparing it to LOTRO as it is the other MMORPG I'm playing. LOTRO has better cosmetic system, more emotes and instruments you can play. Like really play, do music, pressing different notes. I don't RP, but many times I have stopped my grinding of different stuff just to pause and listen when group of roleplayers play like a band in towns.
Is a wonder, as this is supposed to be mmoRPG, that most of the people concentrate only that MMO part. In one poll, minority roleplays.
you know, I never understood that? I always thought that rp is about creativity of the mind. and rp doesn't always need to be done with other people. I like that in ESO I'm actualy helped by the game when it comes to figuring out what sort of person my character is - by being given choices in how I progress the quests. I have options for outfits to wear into battle vs outfits to wear when in their homes. they have homes! and mechanically, the skills we give to our characters, whether we focus them on magic or combat, passive bonuses - all of that is a part of an rpg. i mean... you don't get to rp against other people in solo games, and yet.. people don't argue whether they are rpg's. there are solo rpg's that have far fewer visual as well as mechanical customization options then ESO and yet there is no doubt that they are rpg's. there are rpg's that have no preset emotes. no toys.
and seriously housing was the biggest thing ZOS could have done to help rp along. because now there's a plethora of options on creating actual environments to play out the stories in, while keeping them private enough to not be disrupted by those not into role playing.
LOTRO just has more tools for RP, they have these same things as are in ESO, and then some more. More ways to express oneself.
and? a lot of games have fewer tools. some of the single player rpg's don't even let you customize appearance or gender of your character (like Witcher) and yet are lauded as best rpg of the generation.
Did you play eq 2? It was far better designed then this in its group dynamics. And it did some things wrong as well. Forced grouping ? I dont know where you got that from the games lvling content was completely solo. It required grouping much like this game. Usually this type of comment leads me to believe the person did not play eq2 . What it did right was not make the game dps dependent it was dependent on playing your chosen class well
might have been thinking of original everquest. that said.. I don't understand highlighted comment and what you mean by that? having also looked up the specifics of the game, I'm trying to understand in what way was it done better when it comes to grouping, then ESO. objectively speaking
What the difference was , the game did not really force a dps check. Mechanics required true Cc, debuffing,and cleansing. They were not secondary effects of dps . Tanking required knowledge and aggro management . There was a team effort not an individual performance of how high your dps was. roles were more defined and required more them just dps tank and healing . There was cc ,buffing and debuffing .
but.. its STILL a team effort. focusing too much on individual performance above working as a group is why so many groups are unsuccessful at clearing group content. cc is absolutely a thing. buffing and debuffing is most certainly something that is needed and is being done in ESO - cue my annoyance at having to pvp to unlock a particularly good and basicaly required group buff - Warhorn. those are not secondary effects of dps - those are abilities that people use specificaly in group content and ONLY in group content and their only purpose is to buff the group. the fact that you can chose not to do group content, IMO is a good thing, not a bad thing. that doesn't however negate the existence of group content.
ive cleared everything as a tank but Vmol VHOF and V sanct i have not really seen any true CC in any mechaincs . never have i seen DK ever use stone fist or sorc with cage. Early VR dungeon runs we did quite a bit of juggling with volcanic Rune but the days of trash having any signifcant challenge or sense of urgent communication are long gone in ESO everything is dumbed down to the point of questiong why your even running anything other then 4 DPS for 90 % of the content . And the reason why groups are unsuccessful is because they do not understand mechanics,failed to burn fast enough,or stood in red puddles. Debuffing and buffing are secondary effects most of the time of a ability that adds DPS or is healing all your doing is refreshing a timer of an ability that primarily did damge healed or taunted. Targeting is a loosy goosy AOE fest and aggro management is non existent. Sorry i just dont see the group dynamics your saying exist in ESO in 2017. they did early on but those days are long since gone. and if you say six axes in VAA ill roll my eyes.0 -
Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ESO is considered an MMO and has a blend of solo and group contentWifeaggro13 wrote: »Wifeaggro13 wrote: »Wifeaggro13 wrote: »Wifeaggro13 wrote: »Bombashaman wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »Bombashaman wrote: »I just leave this here:
ESO isn't really an MMO in the traditional sense anyway:
"To answer your question about comparing ESO to other MMOs: ESO is not really a traditional MMO, so we don’t use that term much around the office – and it is this distinction that separates it from other games. If you want to play it solo, like you did with other Elder Scrolls games, you can do that. If you want to play it super-grindy with dungeons, Trials, and group bosses as the core of you experience, you can join up with others and do that too."
And made it even clearer in a recent interview last week:
“We don’t even use the term MMO with The Elder Scrolls Online anymore, because really it’s not,” game director Matt Firor says. “MMO was a term coined in 1997 with Ultima Online, EverQuest, and Dark Age of Camelot – we are not that game.”
He meant that ESO isn't a traditional MMO, but by the definition of an MMO, it is still an MMO, just not the kind of MMO that we are used to.
but its EXACTLY the kind of MMO's i'm used to. but.. i didn't get into MMO's until WoW came out and made MMO's accessible and playable solo. MMO hasn't meant "must group for everything, and cannot play solo at all" for a while now.
On one interview ZOS said ESO is "online RPG". So they dropped the Massive Multiplayer from the MMORPG. Which is kinda weird as ESO do feel massive, and there do are many players zooming around, but it sure as h*ll doesn't feel like an RPG. More like an adventure park.
it does feel like an rpg, a certain type of rpg. to me. but honestly it almost feels like ZOS is trying to appear to be different for the sake of seeming to be different even though they are not. to avoid the whole "another wannabe wow killer" stigma? or something. I don't even know, its the same mess with chapters. exercise in semantics to seem differentWifeaggro13 wrote: »The only thing massively multiplayer about ESO is Cyrodiil. PVE content is mostly single player/coop. I think Online RPG is a fitting description.
You can do a large portion of WoW single player as well. Does that make it not an MMORPG? In fact, most of the MMOs I just dabbled in I did everything solo. Just because you have an option to not do things with other people does not make the game not an MMO.
though im not a fan of WOW, it has incredible amounts of group content across all its level tiers. this game has very very little group content. and a lot of that group content can be solo'd or duo'd
this game has lthe same amount of group content at all tiers as WoW does. possibly more, since with WoW you can outlevel EVERYTHING and including old raids (trial equivalents)that are MEANT to be soloed when at cap. here, you have to be pretty darn skilled and decently geared to solo instanced dungeons. in WoW.. all you need to do is go up a few levels. you can do far less grouping in WoW if you so wish, then in ESO.
world bosses in ESO unless you are above average? need a group. instanced dungeons? need a group and a bunch of them ARE meant to be done while still leveling. public dungeons - hit or miss, but its the equivalent of an overgeared WoW player soloing current dungeons. and btw, you can get overgeared in WoW completely solo as well, especially in this latest expansion. source? active WoW account. the only things I've been grouping for lately is once a week world bosses and holiday event - becasue for holiday event, you cannot reach it without being in group finder, at least as far as i know.
just out of cursiousity what end game activites are you doing in ESO currently and what incentive do you find to do it. Personaly im not a fan of Tam one . it was a step to far in one direction , the fact that most of the four mans can be solo'd if your a good player with good gear is an indication its CP system is completely broken. the basic problem with am one is they nerfed the game to a diluted state that requires no skill , community developed friendships, though i thought ESO was going ina good direction fo r its first year albiet very slowly. from my perspective ESO has now focused on making money of the community that does not even play the whole game. throw out some single player zone 3 times a year with some quests and bad story, pump out some crow crate items and milk the churning player base. From my perspective thats something you start doing post 5 years of launch after you have expanded and enriched game systems, AA have a full class an roll roster, and several options to end game activities. they could have done a lot more EQ2 type development .
I do mostly occasional trials and dungeons. and thank the bloody god they didn't do more of full on evercrack type development, the days of forced grouping in MMO's are long LONG gone. and they are NOT coming back. vast VAST majority of moddern mmo's (and I only say majority, rather then all becasue i haven't played all existing MMO's) offer a mix of solo and group content, with ability to solo your way to level cap and experience large chunks of the game solo, without having to group even once. its done so that you can choose to be social, while still staying casual
incidentally, no, i cannot solo dungeons in ESO, especialy not after one Tamriel. one tamriel has done more to force grouping than anything else in this game. i HAVE to be in a group to do them, yes even on story mode. most people can't, btw. there are people who, in WoW at least - solo current raid bosses. they are NOT the norm. they do it for the challenge and to see if they can, the rest of us - NEED to group for them. just becasue a few people can solo group content, doesn't make it any less of a content meant for and usually done in a group.Bombashaman wrote: »Bombashaman wrote: »it does feel like an rpg, a certain type of rpg. to me. but honestly it almost feels like ZOS is trying to appear to be different for the sake of seeming to be different even though they are not. to avoid the whole "another wannabe wow killer" stigma? or something. I don't even know, its the same mess with chapters. exercise in semantics to seem different.
ZOS and ESO doesn't really help RPing much. I'm comparing it to LOTRO as it is the other MMORPG I'm playing. LOTRO has better cosmetic system, more emotes and instruments you can play. Like really play, do music, pressing different notes. I don't RP, but many times I have stopped my grinding of different stuff just to pause and listen when group of roleplayers play like a band in towns.
Is a wonder, as this is supposed to be mmoRPG, that most of the people concentrate only that MMO part. In one poll, minority roleplays.
you know, I never understood that? I always thought that rp is about creativity of the mind. and rp doesn't always need to be done with other people. I like that in ESO I'm actualy helped by the game when it comes to figuring out what sort of person my character is - by being given choices in how I progress the quests. I have options for outfits to wear into battle vs outfits to wear when in their homes. they have homes! and mechanically, the skills we give to our characters, whether we focus them on magic or combat, passive bonuses - all of that is a part of an rpg. i mean... you don't get to rp against other people in solo games, and yet.. people don't argue whether they are rpg's. there are solo rpg's that have far fewer visual as well as mechanical customization options then ESO and yet there is no doubt that they are rpg's. there are rpg's that have no preset emotes. no toys.
and seriously housing was the biggest thing ZOS could have done to help rp along. because now there's a plethora of options on creating actual environments to play out the stories in, while keeping them private enough to not be disrupted by those not into role playing.
LOTRO just has more tools for RP, they have these same things as are in ESO, and then some more. More ways to express oneself.
and? a lot of games have fewer tools. some of the single player rpg's don't even let you customize appearance or gender of your character (like Witcher) and yet are lauded as best rpg of the generation.
Did you play eq 2? It was far better designed then this in its group dynamics. And it did some things wrong as well. Forced grouping ? I dont know where you got that from the games lvling content was completely solo. It required grouping much like this game. Usually this type of comment leads me to believe the person did not play eq2 . What it did right was not make the game dps dependent it was dependent on playing your chosen class well
might have been thinking of original everquest. that said.. I don't understand highlighted comment and what you mean by that? having also looked up the specifics of the game, I'm trying to understand in what way was it done better when it comes to grouping, then ESO. objectively speaking
What the difference was , the game did not really force a dps check. Mechanics required true Cc, debuffing,and cleansing. They were not secondary effects of dps . Tanking required knowledge and aggro management . There was a team effort not an individual performance of how high your dps was. roles were more defined and required more them just dps tank and healing . There was cc ,buffing and debuffing .
but.. its STILL a team effort. focusing too much on individual performance above working as a group is why so many groups are unsuccessful at clearing group content. cc is absolutely a thing. buffing and debuffing is most certainly something that is needed and is being done in ESO - cue my annoyance at having to pvp to unlock a particularly good and basicaly required group buff - Warhorn. those are not secondary effects of dps - those are abilities that people use specificaly in group content and ONLY in group content and their only purpose is to buff the group. the fact that you can chose not to do group content, IMO is a good thing, not a bad thing. that doesn't however negate the existence of group content.
ive cleared everything as a tank but Vmol VHOF and V sanct i have not really seen any true CC in any mechaincs . never have i seen DK ever use stone fist or sorc with cage. Early VR dungeon runs we did quite a bit of juggling with volcanic Rune but the days of trash having any signifcant challenge or sense of urgent communication are long gone in ESO everything is dumbed down to the point of questiong why your even running anything other then 4 DPS for 90 % of the content . And the reason why groups are unsuccessful is because they do not understand mechanics,failed to burn fast enough,or stood in red puddles. Debuffing and buffing are secondary effects most of the time of a ability that adds DPS or is healing all your doing is refreshing a timer of an ability that primarily did damge healed or taunted. Targeting is a loosy goosy AOE fest and aggro management is non existent. Sorry i just dont see the group dynamics your saying exist in ESO in 2017. they did early on but those days are long since gone. and if you say six axes in VAA ill roll my eyes.
I'm very happy that you are such an elite player with other elite players around you that you can just ignore cc etc as you power through the mechanics. must be nice. the rest of us non elite players still have to work together, use cc and juggle group buffs in order to clear stuff. and we certainly cannot get away with running 4 dps, or tanks that don't taunt and healers that barely heal.Edited by Linaleah on June 30, 2017 2:49AMdirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***0 -
Raeph✭✭✭ESO is considered an MMO and has a blend of solo and group contentBombashaman wrote: »it does feel like an rpg, a certain type of rpg. to me. but honestly it almost feels like ZOS is trying to appear to be different for the sake of seeming to be different even though they are not. to avoid the whole "another wannabe wow killer" stigma? or something. I don't even know, its the same mess with chapters. exercise in semantics to seem different.
ZOS and ESO doesn't really help RPing much. I'm comparing it to LOTRO as it is the other MMORPG I'm playing. LOTRO has better cosmetic system, more emotes and instruments you can play. Like really play, do music, pressing different notes. I don't RP, but many times I have stopped my grinding of different stuff just to pause and listen when group of roleplayers play like a band in towns.
Is a wonder, as this is supposed to be mmoRPG, that most of the people concentrate only that MMO part. In one poll, minority roleplays.
RPG doesn't mean you roleplay... that is a possible facet, sure, but RPG is just a broad genre. Baldur's Gate is an RPG but I've never role played in it.0 -
fgoron2000✭✭✭✭ESO is considered an MMO and has a blend of solo and group contentAs soon as I see the aqua colored name titles above characters, instead of the green ones, it's immediately an MMO to me. Each one of those, and I see a lot of them, represents someone, somewhere in the world outside my home, playing the same game as I am at the same time. I can see him/her and he/she can see me. MMO
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